[HN Gopher] Formula E Gen3: The world's most efficient race car
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Formula E Gen3: The world's most efficient race car
Author : RickJWagner
Score : 58 points
Date : 2022-04-29 11:53 UTC (1 days ago)
(HTM) web link (www.engadget.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.engadget.com)
| epolanski wrote:
| > line with Formula E's achievement as the first net-zero sport
|
| I don't understand how can they claim such things, what is the
| definition for "net-zero".
|
| Doesn't matter how optimized, say, the production of a car is,
| say it produces 10 metric tons of CO2, how are they gonna offset
| it? And all the rubber, travelling, batteries, etc?
| PavleMiha wrote:
| Carbon offsets are super complicated, potentially shady, and I
| don't fully understand them, but the gist of it is that they
| pay money to companies to either not produce carbon that they
| otherwise would have, or use the money to install and operate
| equipment in factories and powerplants that captures carbon
| before it goes out into the world. You can also do things that
| pull carbon out of regular air but I think the first two
| options are so much more efficient that they dominate the
| market. It seems like the system could be gamed, but as far as
| I know it broadly works.
| basisword wrote:
| >> Carbon offsets are super complicated, potentially shady,
| and I don't fully understand them
|
| How can you judge them while openly admitting you don't
| understand them?
| peyton wrote:
| There are clear perverse incentives and well-documented
| abuses.
| V__ wrote:
| > These unavoidable emissions from the past six seasons have
| now been certified as offset through investment in Gold
| Standard and Verified Carbon Standard UN projects in-line with
| the UNFCCC's Clean Development Mechanism.
|
| > From biogas energy generation in China to landfill gas energy
| generation in Mexico and wind power energy generation in
| Morocco, the offsetting projects Formula E has partnered with
| are carefully selected based on their social or ecological
| benefits, and on their location, all of which are situated in
| regions that we've raced in, from Season 1 to-date.
|
| [1] https://www.fiaformulae.com/en/news/2020/september/three-
| ste...
| Tempest1981 wrote:
| Details here:
|
| -
| https://www.fiaformulae.com/en/discover/sustainability/net-z...
|
| - https://f.fiaformulae.com/r/sustainability/FE-
| Sustainability...
|
| Not clear which emissions are being offset. Although, relative
| to ICE racing, the bar is low.
| robotmlg wrote:
| most emission from ICE racing (at least in the high level
| series where they do a lot of traveling) is from the planes
| and ships that transport the team members and equipment, and
| I imagine that's the same for Formula E
| Goz3rr wrote:
| > Although, relative to ICE racing, the bar is low.
|
| You do realize the actual ICE emissions dwarf in comparison
| to the whole picture right? If you take Formula 1 for
| example, they run 20 cars that will each burn through about
| 200-300kg of fossil fuel per race weekend. Even so, the
| actual emissions from the cars only accounts for 0.7% of the
| total CO2 emissions of a whole season of F1. Almost half the
| emissions are just from transporting equipment from race to
| race (via air, sea and land). About a quarter is transporting
| the personnel. Almost all of these still apply to Formula E.
| jonathankoren wrote:
| Formula E is pretty interesting. All the races are on YouTube.
| It's enjoyable, and the races have some interesting gimmicks that
| electric cars can give you.
|
| First, the race is n minutes + 2 laps instead of a set distance.
| Functionally, it's not really any different from a regular
| distance race, since you have to be on the lead lap to win. The
| other gimmick is that video game speed boosts are a thing. You
| can drive through areas to have your motor run at a higher output
| for a limited time.
|
| I do like the aesthetics for the new cars, and the battery
| technology has improved from the earliest version where the
| drivers had to change cars in the middle of the race because the
| batteries were too weak.
| altarius wrote:
| I'm always curious about carbon fiber recycling.
|
| It is my understanding that as long as you're using an epoxy
| matrix the best you can do is "down cycle", i.e. you shred your
| part, literally burn off the resin and reuse the scraps with new
| binder into e.g. airplane trays.
|
| It sounds like maybe switching to a thermoplastic ("remeltable")
| matrix might be better but it will probably take decade(s) to
| research how to optimally produce and use those new parts.
| turbinerneiter wrote:
| BMW worked on that for the i3, but I couldn't find any good
| source about what came of it and if they used it for the i3.
| moffkalast wrote:
| They must've allocated all the funding from the body design
| team, the i3 has some serious Fiat Multipla vibes.
| olivermarks wrote:
| BEVs are great for hill climb (Pikes Peak record held by
| incredible VW BEV https://youtu.be/2K2paIN20mU) and for low end
| drag racing (NEDRA in the US
| http://www.nedra.com/record_holders.html), but for circuit racing
| they are years away from being able to run more than a few laps
| at a time with sub formula III performance.
|
| I'd be interested to see more hybrid racing, which would help
| with hybrid street R&D, but the BEV world is imo currently
| limited to sprint performance, not multiple lap competitive
| racing
| inb4_cancelled wrote:
| Why did they go fully open-wheel when aiming for higher
| efficiency? I always thought that the wheels produce some brutal
| drag.
| aquajet wrote:
| It's also a revered part of "the formula", mainly for
| aesthetics. I'm guessing they want the cars to look more like
| the other formula series.
| moffkalast wrote:
| Yeah, add wheel covers and you basically have the LeMans
| prototypes instead.
| metadat wrote:
| To keep them cool, because grip is everything and you don't
| want them too hot or cold. Sweet spot is key.
| gameswithgo wrote:
| riidom wrote:
| It's phrased a bit unclear in the article, but the 250kW front
| engine is actually for recuperation only.
| rco8786 wrote:
| > Formula 1 cars average speeds between 220 and 230MPH during a
| Grand Prix,
|
| This must be a typo. Maybe kph? 220mph is maybe like a
| theoretical max speed, but certainly not an average over a race.
| kissiel wrote:
| 220mph is typical speed on longer straights, so I guess It
| should have been "F1 cars on average have a top speed between
| 220 and 230mph.
| benoliver999 wrote:
| Monaco is gonna be _wild_ this year
| ohgodplsno wrote:
| If you don't go for a gap that exists and don't yeet yourself
| to death at maximum speed on short track circuits, you cannot
| call yourself a racer
| ot wrote:
| Yes they likely meant "typical top speeds".
|
| According to Wikipedia, all "Highest average" speed records
| (for race, lap, and qualifying) happened in Monza, and they're
| all around 250km/h, or 155mph.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Formula_One_race_recor...
| smallerfish wrote:
| > Gen3 won't rely solely on batteries for power. Around 40
| percent of the energy cars will use during an E-Prix will be
| produced by regenerative braking.
|
| Definitely bad writing. Where do they think the energy that got
| the car up to speed originally (which is then partially recouped
| via regenerative braking) came from?
| lostdog wrote:
| > Inside, an electric motor can deliver 350kW of power (470BHP)
| to reach top speeds of 200MPH (320 km/h). For reference, Formula
| 1 cars average speeds between 220 and 230MPH during a Grand Prix.
|
| There's either some typos here, or just bad writing.
|
| The speed record for Formula 1 looks to be 231.4 mph, so the E
| top speed looks to be pretty close. That's cool! I wonder if
| we'll see the top races turn into electric at some point.
| napoleon_thepig wrote:
| The problem with this comparison is that F1 cars have a lot
| more downforce (and therefore drag) than FE cars, which means
| that F1 cars have a relatively low top speed.
|
| Add to this the fact that race distance is a lot shorter in FE
| and that they race in street circuits where time with full
| throttle is low and brake regen is high and suddenly Formula e
| is not very impressive.
| Scene_Cast2 wrote:
| My take is that what makes a sport exciting for spectators is
| different from what makes a sport exciting for the
| participants, which is also different from an exciting sports
| spec sheet.
| napoleon_thepig wrote:
| I agree and I think that FE is a well designed
| entertainment product, considering the technology and
| budget limitations they have.
| kissiel wrote:
| As with all engineering there's a tradeoffs dance. The F1 one
| cars pull insane G's in the bends, and all that downforce
| requires a lot of power. I'd like to know what kind of g-forces
| those FE cars reach. I think the best way to compare the
| overall performance is to compare the average speed on the same
| track.
| jw14 wrote:
| I think Formula E is kind of useless. Racing competitions can
| be a good engine for innovation, but last I heard Formula E
| has all cars using a standard battery. Isn't the battery the
| biggest thing we want to improve on EVs?
|
| They hold the races in cities instead of "real" race tracks,
| which I guess is cool if that's your home town but as a
| (lukewarm) racing fan I would rather see tracks I know. I
| wonder if they also want to avoid comparisons with ICE race
| cars. The Gen 2 Formula E did 0-60 in 2.8s... which is
| achievable in some ICE street cars. Hopefully the Gen 3 is
| more impressive.
| jwcooper wrote:
| I'm not really sure Formula E is big enough yet to put a
| lot of resources into battery tech like Formula 1 can
| engine tech.
|
| I believe the biggest reason they are in cities now is that
| the battery capacity/tech just isn't there yet for
| something like Spa or COTA for the distance and speeds
| required for an interesting race. City courses allow for a
| design that offers a lot of regenerative braking.
|
| Another reason to host them in cities is that cities are
| great for fans. Lots of hotels, restaurants, people buy
| tickets, etc. Cities are likely more open to Formula E due
| to the quieter cars and lower pollution too.
|
| So, not useless, just maybe not interesting to you.
| oleganza wrote:
| For publicity reasons F1 and Indycar/CART virtually never
| race on the same tracks. Otherwise people would point
| fingers and say that US series are slower overall, or top
| speeds in F1 are not as jaw-dropping as in US.
|
| I'd bet FE has similar arrangement - no one wants obvious
| comparison with an obvious loser by some metric.
| JshWright wrote:
| Formula E holds exclusive rights to single seat, open wheel
| electric car racing for quite a while (a couple decades).
| lukasb wrote:
| How?
| JshWright wrote:
| By signing a contract with the FIA, the international
| organizing body for motor racing.
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