[HN Gopher] The Balloon Learning Environment
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       The Balloon Learning Environment
        
       Author : agmm
       Score  : 63 points
       Date   : 2022-04-25 14:16 UTC (8 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (ai.googleblog.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (ai.googleblog.com)
        
       | whatever1 wrote:
       | Yeah I don't buy the baseline comparison of the "expert designed
       | controller" that cannot stay within bounds.
       | 
       | We can control systems that have not only fluid-mechanical, but
       | also heat transfer and chemical reactions, all happening at the
       | same time with huge bars of uncertainty.
       | 
       | Next.
        
         | krisoft wrote:
         | The environment has been released. If you or anyone else wishes
         | to give it a go you can develop a controller any whichever way
         | you fancy.
         | 
         | The baseline comparison is not meant to be some final word on
         | any given controller. In this case they clearly cite it to a
         | particular paper. [1]
         | 
         | 1: https://github.com/google/balloon-learning-
         | environment/blob/...
        
           | whatever1 wrote:
           | Then their wording is misleading.
           | 
           | They compared against another bad RL system and they are
           | better than that.
           | 
           | That is far from an "expert control system"
        
             | krisoft wrote:
             | Ah! I see where the miscommunication happens. They use the
             | word in a particular context.
             | 
             | Here "expert control system" means that it has a decision
             | logic designed by some humans. They sit down wrote an
             | algorithm and said "I think this is a good idea based on
             | what I know about the problem." Compare it with a
             | reinforcement learning system, where they let loose a
             | generic learning algorithm on the problem and then they see
             | how it performs.
             | 
             | In this context "expert control system" doesn't mean that
             | it was expertly designed, or even that it is any good. It
             | just means that humans designed it for this particular
             | problem.
        
               | whatever1 wrote:
               | This makes sense. Thanks for the clarification :)
        
             | mockery wrote:
             | The word expert is not being used in the colloquial sense,
             | but in the technical sense of an "Expert System":
             | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expert_system
        
       | mathogre wrote:
       | For a bit of background, go to: https://x.company/projects/loon/
       | 
       | I was working on the Air Traffic Control side of unmanned free
       | balloons in 2020, and Loon was an exciting project. While it's a
       | shame it wasn't financially viable, they had it working with up
       | to 60-ish balloons in the stratosphere at any given time. This
       | was an amazing accomplishment.
       | 
       | The navigation was equally amazing. It was Loon who did some real
       | research on stratospheric weather. While many meteorological
       | entities throughout the world knew and understood tropospheric
       | weather, the stratosphere was mostly unknown. In addition to AI,
       | Google really did expand the knowledge and science of
       | stratospheric weather.
        
         | bluetwo wrote:
         | I thought this project was pretty impressive. I feel like this
         | is a thing that is going to come back around once costs come
         | down and a killer app is found for it.
        
           | galoisscobi wrote:
           | Balloon retrieval might be a problem that would have to be
           | solved while keeping operation costs low.
           | 
           | I knew some friends over at Loon and one of their challenges
           | was it wasn't highly deterministic where the balloon would
           | land at the end of life, and they had a rescue team with
           | speedboats, helicopters and land rovers to go recover
           | balloons. They could pick a big enough radius and have it
           | land somewhere within that to avoid cities, and human
           | settlements.
           | 
           | Also, Alphabet burned considerable money on this for 9 years
           | before shutting down. Not sure if it'll come back, at least
           | not by Alphabet.
        
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       (page generated 2022-04-25 23:02 UTC)