[HN Gopher] Android loses 8% of its global OS market share in fi...
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Android loses 8% of its global OS market share in five years
Author : galogon
Score : 173 points
Date : 2022-04-23 17:57 UTC (5 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (stockapps.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (stockapps.com)
| QuikAccount wrote:
| I've been heavily considering getting an iPhone because of how
| terrible the Android experience but my problem with Apple is that
| you are either fully in their ecosystem of you aren't a worthy
| enough customer in their mind. I have no desire to use iCloud or
| Apple mail or have an AppleID. I just want a small phone that
| gets updates, has maps, and has a decent music app.
| CameronNemo wrote:
| Is it easy to buy a degoogled android phone? Aiui you need a
| google account to use the play store.
| 8K832d7tNmiQ wrote:
| I'm sorry, but I fail to understand your argument here.
|
| Either you are Edward Snowden or Elliot, there is no written
| rule to use every single Apple services in order to use iPhone.
|
| I've been using iPhone for almost a decade and the only feature
| I only ever use is Find My Iphone for obvious reason.
|
| > I just want a small phone that gets updates, has maps, and
| has a decent music app.
|
| And what stops you for doing that in iPhone?
| wolverine876 wrote:
| Can you install apps without an AppleID? Can you pay for
| things in apps without using Apple's payment system?
| christophilus wrote:
| I use an iPhone with no Apple services. My computers are all
| Linux, except for my wife's Mac. No complaints or problems.
| notatoad wrote:
| I've been using an iPhone without any apple services for the
| last year and a half and it's been a pretty pleasant
| experience. Gmail, Google Maps, Spotify all work fine and
| there's nothing prodding you to switch back to apple services.
| It's much improved compared to ~5 years ago when I last tried
| iOS.
|
| You need an apple ID for the app store, but that seems pretty
| reasonable.
| brundolf wrote:
| I'm a happy Apple hardware customer for all of my devices, and
| while you will want to have a (free) Apple ID/account for the
| App Store if nothing else, you don't really need to use any of
| their real services. I have iCloud mostly turned off, I use
| Apple Pay and Apple Music because I like them, but that's all.
| Most of their paid services are garbage and I use alternatives.
| sylens wrote:
| I was a very vocal supporter of Android from about 2010 up until
| 2016. At a certain point, Google started chasing the iPhone with
| its Pixel line instead of trying to highlight the benefits that
| made Android unique. If I'm paying iPhone prices for hardware,
| then I might as well get an iPhone.
| chaosbutters314 wrote:
| love my pixel 3a xl. big screen, cheap, no stupid notch/hole
| punch, and runs great. I never understood what people have
| trouble with on Android. all my banking, chatting, food, and
| travel apps work fine. also, has a headphone jack and uses usb-c!
|
| my biggest complaint with smartphones these days is front facing
| camera makes no sense. put mini screen on back with back camera
| for selfies. if people want face unlock, a low quality,
| underscreen front facing camera should be suffient but to me,
| finger unlock on back is superior experience.
| sharken wrote:
| Have owned both Android and IPhone, both are great choices. If
| you want to configure your phone or want to interact with
| content, I'd say the Android wins.
|
| To me one of the best Android phones is the OnePlus 8T, it has a
| large effective screen, modest weight and very good battery life.
|
| But the IPhone X and also 13 are very tough phones, that can take
| a lot of abuse. With panzer glass it's an extremely durable (and
| fast) phone.
| eternityforest wrote:
| I sure hope this is just random noise and not a long term trend.
| I would NOT be happy about having to use Apple, or having any
| serious fragmentation of the mobile space.
| giantg2 wrote:
| I have to say that my Android phones have gotten more buggy and
| less user friendly over the years.
|
| One thing I do like about Android is that I can develop and
| publish apps for a reasonable fee. Apple wants $100 per year to
| be a developer. My apps are free so they don't make money. I
| would simply stop developing if I had to pay that.
| dougmwne wrote:
| I was so committed to android since my very first smartphone. I
| liked that it was a more open platform and that it was a bit more
| of a tinkerer's phone. I recently got an iPhone SE for just too
| good of a price and thought, "why not". The moment I started to
| really use the phone, I felt like a complete fool. Android was
| always a buggy, stuttery mess. Apple is miles ahead. The phone
| and OS is incredibly polished. everything fades into the
| background and it just works in a pleasant and perfect way.
| Android
| jancsika wrote:
| Some of this may be due to the Librem 5.
|
| In the time it took me to write this comment, they could have
| shipped anywhere from zero to one phones.
|
| That's conceivably not nothing.
| the_common_man wrote:
| I think it's because of the pine phone
| lumb63 wrote:
| I'm not surprised. I used Android devoutly, had a Galaxy S4, then
| an S8 when that started showing its age. I upgraded to an iPhone
| 12 when AT&T ran the promotion to get a free one.
|
| I wanted to keep liking Android. The amount of time I spent
| arguing vehemently that Android was superior made the switch
| hard, but several factors came into play for me: - Extremely slow
| and fragmented upgrade of OS. This resulted in substantially
| older features and security patches. - Privacy. iMessage's
| encryption (though I stand by that it is gimmicky to only offer
| for iPhones, and I despise that) has a serious network effect.
| Apple is also far more transparent in what data they use, how
| they use it, etc. - Ironically, price. At the time, the iPhone
| was cheaper than the equivalent Android phone.
|
| The big downside is slower upgrades to the latest hardware
| features. Specifically, I am envious of the people who have 120
| FPS phones, they're beautiful. There is also a loss of
| customization, but truthfully I thought I'd miss it much more
| than I did. The fact that the iPhone "just works" is worth it to
| me.
| layer8 wrote:
| > The fact that the iPhone "just works" is worth it to me.
|
| While I'm firmly entrenched in the iPhone/iPad ecosystem,
| nowadays there's quite a lot of little things that don't "just
| work", but instead behave (or are designed) in quirky and
| inconsistent ways, or fail randomly. I'm not talking about
| third-party apps, but iOS functionality and essential built-in
| apps. I can only imagine it's worse on Android.
| overtonwhy wrote:
| The 13 pro iPhone line is 120hz
| [deleted]
| wumpus wrote:
| > iMessage's encryption (though I stand by that it is gimmicky
| to only offer for iPhones, and I despise that)
|
| What security guarantees would iMessage have if it ran on
| arbitrary hardware instead of only iPhones and Macs? To some
| people, that's important, not a gimmick. Totally fine for you
| to have your own opinion about it, but it's probably a good
| idea to be able to think about why people might disagree.
| [deleted]
| xvector wrote:
| > Specifically, I am envious of the people who have 120 FPS
| phones, they're beautiful
|
| The new iPhone has 120 FPS.
| lumb63 wrote:
| I suppose my point was, at the time I got my phone, they
| didn't. The flagship Galaxy did, though (not sure on Pixel).
| lawl wrote:
| It's pick your poison. The only reason I'm still on android is
| because at least I can (still) have root there. I'm saying
| still because of safety net. But if apple let me have root, i'd
| probably prefer an Apple over Google.
|
| Mobile phones and their user hostility is a cancer. I'm
| seriously considering using a full GNU/Linux handheld for
| mobile things i can do in a browser, and keep an android phone
| for app garbage that I only turn on if I need to use a banking
| app or something.
| rglullis wrote:
| Consider the Android distros that are free from Google
| services. I am on /e/OS which has an android base. Between
| its app store and F-Droid, you get almost everything you'd
| want from a mobile OS (minus games) without all the
| Google/Apple/Samsung crap.
| fsflover wrote:
| > you get almost everything you'd want from a mobile OS
| (minus games)
|
| You forgot reasonable support time: Proprietary drivers
| prevent you from upgrading the Linux kernel, and the device
| becomes very insecure and outdated within few years.
| rglullis wrote:
| No, I did not. I am running the Fairphone, which is
| guaranteed to be updated for 7 years.
| nextos wrote:
| Call me crazy, but I think there is room for a third
| platform.
|
| Especially if this platform was bootstrapped in a smart way,
| for example with an emulation layer to be able to run
| applications from Android.
|
| Or perhaps WebAssembly will make it viable to do more things
| from a (mobile) browser.
|
| I really miss the N700-N9 series with Maemo and Meego. It was
| so elegant and simple.
| sylens wrote:
| I have no idea if they will try it again someday, but I
| would love to see Microsoft give this another go. I think
| strong messaging about "quality over quantity" of apps
| would actually be a boon to them. I never go looking in the
| App Store for new apps anymore - just give me my video
| streamers, a Reddit client, Spotify, Slack, Discord, and
| Signal and I'm good to go.
| sorenjan wrote:
| Exactly. Years ago the number of apps in each app store
| was portrayed as "more is better" and a moat against new
| platforms. But realistically, how many apps does the
| average mobile user actually use, now that the novelty
| has worn off? I would guess that 75% of all users
| actually care about maybe 50 different apps combined,
| like Facebook, Netflix, WhatsApp, Spotify, etc.
| cmroanirgo wrote:
| I'm sure many would be reluctant to trust m$ as a 3rd
| party in the mobile phone stakes, particularly with their
| telemetry, which is the root of the cancer plaguing the
| existing platforms (including desktop) already.
| skinnymuch wrote:
| Most people aren't using $ in words like Msft. Most
| likely find that weird. Same with caring about telemetry
| if they even know its definition. This is not even
| getting into not caring about all of this enough to call
| stuff "cancer"
| criddell wrote:
| Google seems like they have lost a lot of their Android
| enthusiasm. I could see them making a deal with Microsoft
| for Android.
| dosenbrot wrote:
| You should take a look at SailfishOS. I switched from
| Android to Sailfish OS 8 years or so ago. The original
| Jolla Phone was really nice and the OS too. Later I
| switched to an Sony Xperia X with Sailfish OS, but it goes
| only downhill from there. I think the problem are the
| devices, the software might be okay. Now I'm with an IPhone
| and I'm still not happy, it's just something that is not
| horrible.
| sircastor wrote:
| I don't think you're crazy. I think WebOS really could've
| done it if they'd had a better launch partner than Sprint,
| and had done better marketing.
|
| Their application Model was web technologies based, which
| is quite popular now, between React-Native and PWAs.
|
| I'm doubtful though that someone could pull out off now.
| Mostly because you need access to the services that people
| already use and Google/Amazon/Apple already wall their
| gardens to their own liking.
| meremortals wrote:
| long live WebOS!
| guitarbill wrote:
| Windows Phone was a shame, but completely Microsoft's
| fault. I liked the Windows Phone UI/UX, and the irony is
| that if they had've invested more into something like
| Xamarin, they could've likely had extremely compelling
| tooling for big enterprises (like banks) to support Apps on
| different platforms. But even Skype for Windows Phone took
| ages to actually land.
|
| Or emulate Android apps, like you said. That solves the
| initial issue of having no apps. It seems like Google
| Fuchsia will likely take this approach. Although it isn't
| clear if another platform could do this, without a lot of
| goodwill from Google - and good luck with that.
| kd913 wrote:
| I loved my lumia 520. It was cheap as chips, fast as hell
| and at the time more user friendly than whatever
| overheating droid alternatives were available. I think it
| was one of the fastest selling phones at the time.
|
| I distinctly remember Google making it a right pain to
| use Google's products on the phone, namely Youtube and
| Google Maps. In addition I remember a bunch of articles
| talking about how Google prevented Microsoft from
| developing a native youtube app and doing shady nonsense
| regarding User Agent filtering.
|
| https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013/01/google-maps-
| windows-...
|
| https://geekinsider.com/google-blocks-youtube-on-windows-
| pho...
|
| How Google got away with that is beyond me.
|
| Certainly makes me somewhat glad that Microsoft just
| chose to yoink chromium for edge. At least now Google
| can't do any more shady nonsense with the browser to
| filter them out.
| Zardoz84 wrote:
| Microsoft using Chromium for Edge, it's a bad notice. It
| only helps Google to get a strong hold on the web and his
| standards...
| kd913 wrote:
| Microsoft is a trillion dollar company with experience
| working on Chromium and browsers. They have the talent
| and resources to run/take over chrome.
|
| If Google makes a misstep, it wouldn't take too much
| effort for Microsoft to run a hostile fork and capture a
| massive user base. They already are the 2nd most popular
| browser.
|
| As it is, they have nullified Google's anti-competitive
| nonsense of using the browser as a way to manipulate
| markets.
|
| Granted as a Firefox user, I conceded your point to how
| to affects open standards. Frankly though, that has
| already been long tarnished by Google anyway.
| Zardoz84 wrote:
| Firefox tried it some years ago. Same Microsoft, Samsung,
| etc...
| Abroszka wrote:
| I still miss Firefox OS. What happened to it? To me it
| seems that it was going well, but it was impossible to
| buy a phone with Firefox OS.
| schroeding wrote:
| Got abandoned by Mozilla :/
|
| AFAIK KaiOS (the operating system for some T9-keyboard-
| only phones like the rebooted Nokia 8110) is Firefox OS
| with a new coat of paint, but it also seems kinda dead.
| And no touchscreen in those devices, so not really
| comparable to "normal" smartphones anymore... :/
| sorenjan wrote:
| One problem with relying on emulation is that Google has
| moved a lot of functionality from the open source Android
| layer to Google Play Services, and they obviously wont
| publish that on someone else's platform.
|
| https://developers.google.com/android/guides/overview
| nextos wrote:
| Yes, this is a problem.
|
| But frankly, many users only want messaging, maps,
| banking and a few other things.
|
| WebAssembly could solve that.
| marcosdumay wrote:
| You can install those from the Play Store, can't you? If
| you are going yo emulate Android, it's best to go all in
| and install the Google services into the emulator too.
| (Of course, the distributor can't just install it, but he
| can make the device ready for installing it, requiring
| only some confirmation.)
| goosedragons wrote:
| There doesn't seem to be. Hell BB10 was basically what you
| describe and IIRC had a layer to let let devs submit
| Android apps into the Blackberry World from day one. It
| wasn't enough and devs couldn't even be bothered to do
| that. Later they partnered with Amazon and added the Amazon
| App Store and let users add their own Android apps. Still
| wasn't enough. It was a great phone OS and hands down was
| the best at email/messaging. Maybe a true FOSS community
| effort could carve out more of niche with this though.
|
| Even Microsoft couldn't make it work with barrels of cash.
| Granted they did make some huge mis-steps.
| ghaff wrote:
| You can probably make the case for it being a triopoly
| today had Microsoft done some things differently. But
| that's different from saying that Microsoft could
| realistically start down the mobile phone path again
| today. You can be sure if they thought they had any
| realistic hope of making it, they would try.
| fsflover wrote:
| > I think there is room for a third platform
|
| And it already exists: GNU/Linux phones running desktop
| OSes, Librem 5 [0] and Pinephone [1].
|
| [0] https://puri.sm/products/librem-5
|
| [1] https://pine64.org/pinephone
| bitwize wrote:
| Surely, 2022 will be the year of Linux on the palmtop!
| adamomada wrote:
| I switched from rooted Android to an iPhone that has the
| checkm8 bootrom exploit and use a tool called checkra1n[0] to
| 'jailbreak' it. It's been really nice, super stable (i.e.
| months between restarts) and unlocks so many little comforts
| for me coming from custom Android. To an android user, it's
| similar to Xposed, but with almost every change to the system
| going through Xposed instead of modules, random scripts, etc.
|
| [0] https://checkra.in
| skinnymuch wrote:
| I had Xposed with a Note 3 or 4. It didn't seem like the
| amount of customizing and tweaks were close to what iOS
| jailbreaking had. Maybe I never found the right place to
| figure stuff out. For iOS jailbreaking I just go to the
| subreddit once in a while for a bit.
| SergeAx wrote:
| "If you don't have a root privilege on your device - this is
| not your device"
|
| But even without root I can side load an app via APK on
| Android. This way my Telegram messenger almost always a
| version ahead Google Play.
| KronisLV wrote:
| > But even without root I can side load an app via APK on
| Android.
|
| What about getting rid of the preinstalled "system"
| bloatware that may be present and outside of your control
| to remove without root?
| SergeAx wrote:
| It is annoying, but there is a "disable" option. They
| still will take some space on the device though.
| hellisothers wrote:
| What does having root on your phone improve for you?
| darawk wrote:
| Not the OP, but for me this is a matter of principle. If
| you don't have root on your device, it isn't yours, its the
| manufacturer's, and you're simply renting it. I rarely if
| ever actually use my root access for anything, but I guess
| I'm just philosophically opposed to buying a device
| designed to ensure I don't control it. Doubly so for a
| device that's so critical and enmeshed in my private life.
| White_Wolf wrote:
| on top of what lawl said:
|
| - macros and scripts- it's nice not having to enable,
| disable etc stuff and just scan qr codes, nfc tags or use
| ble tags as markers to enable something
|
| - chroot
|
| - faking permisions and data for apps is a must
|
| - sim links to app data folders for easy backup/restore
| fsflover wrote:
| Did you hear about the free software philosophy?
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Free_Software_Definition
|
| The main point of it is that if you don't have the control
| over your computing, someone else has and they can use this
| power for their own advantage against you. Examples are
| numerous: https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-software-
| even-more-impor....
| lawl wrote:
| A few example of the top of my head:
|
| - DriveDroid to boot a PC, I haven't used a USB stick to
| boot off in... years?
|
| - /etc/hosts
|
| - Viper4Android for system wide EQ
|
| - Messing with user hostile apps such a firefox when they
| disable your addons although they still work, proven by the
| fact that I was able to make them work again as root
|
| Edit: more things
|
| - Wireguard kernel module
|
| - Adding a CA to the trust store to MITM yourself
|
| you can add as many of these as you want, i'm not giving up
| root. The crippled API model that's in fashion these days
| kills innovation.
| darknavi wrote:
| > - Adding a CA to the trust store to MITM yourself
|
| This is possible on iPhones isn't it? I definitely
| remember Fiddlering my self a few years back on my
| iPhone.
| xienze wrote:
| Yes, you can definitely do this on iOS. Mitmproxy for
| example works by installing a trust profile (or something
| like that, can't remember the name).
| lawl wrote:
| You used to be able to do this on android, and then they
| changed it that you can only sort of do it, unless you
| have root.
|
| Root is an insurance (to a degree) against apple changing
| their mind, like google did.
| ce4 wrote:
| Ha, havent heard from that app in years! DriveDroid's
| file-backed USB-thumbdrive emulation is marvellous. Pick
| your .iso or whatever image, insert & boot your machines
| from it. No more searching for and fiddling with usb
| drives needed. It needs usb-gadget+mass storage module
| support in the Android kernel though. Miss it.
| Georgelemental wrote:
| I use a custom ROM on my Pixel phone to strip out all the
| user-hostile tracking. It works quite well honestly, no
| major usability sacrifices
| hellisothers wrote:
| Would the tracker blocking available on iOS at the OS
| level mostly suffice for this?
| lawl wrote:
| Not the person you asked, but no. Because that would mean
| you have to trust iOS to not track you. I can be
| convinced that Apple is less bad than Google in that
| regard, but if Apple has nothing to hide, then they can
| let me have root, so I can verify, right :) ?
| mixedCase wrote:
| SafetyNet?
| hypothesis wrote:
| Are you somewhere where banks won't let you use their
| website and force app usage?
| WithinReason wrote:
| NFC payments?
| yjftsjthsd-h wrote:
| I use https://github.com/sriharshaarangi/BatteryChargeLimit
| to keep my battery healthy so my phone stays functional
| longer.
|
| Oh, and some scripts to fake input events so I can automate
| apps.
| dublinben wrote:
| This is a built-in feature of iOS:
| https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT210512
| pmoriarty wrote:
| I use an app called X-Privacy which can block specific
| permissions in other apps.
|
| For example, I see no reason why a calculator app needs
| access to my contacts, phone, or microphone, and X-Privacy
| will let me disable permissions to those specific resources
| for the calculator app while still letting me use it. As a
| bonus, it'll also put in fake data in to these apps when
| needed, so the apps continue working, thinking they have
| access to my data but they don't.
|
| Something like this should be standard in every smartphone,
| but obviously phone OS makers don't value privacy enough,
| and even require root in order to allow you to do this.
| wvh wrote:
| The principle of not letting a company or government have
| more power over a device you own that holds your private
| actions, whereabouts and even inner thoughts you
| communicate with those closest to you.
|
| I'm not paranoid, but it's not the direction I want to see
| computing evolve in.
| dmead wrote:
| Is it seriously worth it for people to do stuff like this? I
| remember when stallman said he was giving the one laptop per
| child program a shot.
|
| Since the drivers for the wifi were non free he used some USB
| device instead.
|
| Last I read that lasted a few months because he got sick of
| it.
|
| I can't imagine adding all those steps to use a smartphone is
| any less annoying.
| poisonborz wrote:
| If you want to have control over the UI and functional
| aspects of your phone, it can be - the thing is, there are
| enough leeways currently - Rootless XPosed, Samsung
| NiceLock, custom DNS for system-wide adblock, etc - that
| it's often not needed. Custom ROM scene pretty much dried
| up because of this. But with vendors more than ever locking
| up, and Google cutting back features and API access
| agressively, this could change.
| lawl wrote:
| > Is it seriously worth it for people to do stuff like
| this?
|
| For the vast majority, it probably isn't. Also, I'm not
| full RMS since I would consider using an iPhone which
| definitely has closed-source components :)
|
| I don't think it would be that much of a hassle to me,
| since I _already_ don 't use a lot of the "nice" apps etc.
| The way most people use their phone is quite alien to me.
| E.g. I much prefer old.reddit.com over a reddit app and/or
| constantly getting harassed with banners to use the app.
|
| I'm pretty sure it would remove extra steps for me, instead
| of add them, by letting me compute how I like to
| (GNU/Linux) instead of trying to compute like GNU/Linux on
| Android.
| freedomben wrote:
| I think you're genuinely asking, but just FYI it might seem
| to some people like you're perpetuating the common trope of
| "Stallman radicalism" or nothing. By far more people on
| Linux are willing to run some amount of "non-free" software
| depending on the situation. For example the Nvidia
| proprietary drivers are one of the most popular packages
| for many distros.
|
| The only real problem right now is just lack of apps. Devs
| build against Android/iOS-only SDKs and use native features
| that aren't cross platform, so running those apps is mostly
| out of the question (although I have seen some people
| running Android apps on their Pinephones!! Need to look
| into that more).
|
| So GP is saying for apps like _that_ they 'd keep an
| android around but do everything else in a browser.
| solenoidalslide wrote:
| Branding others as being part of a radical out-group
| helps you feel secure in your decisions.
|
| I had a conversation with two people recently who got
| defensive at the idea that controlling the software in
| your phone should be the norm. As if criticizing Apple's
| approach to free/libre software is an attack on them as
| an identity.
| Workaccount2 wrote:
| Long time Google fanboy here, and I'm honestly a hair's breadth
| away from buying an iphone 13.
|
| I have had nexus/pixels phones since the gnex. I have
| evangelized android to for almost as long. I did ground work
| for google by pushing people into google's services. I have a
| day 1 pixel 6 pro. I pay for cloud storage and yt premium.
|
| But to me google is just falling apart. I feel like they have
| lost their technology drive in order to pursue ideological
| ones. Their tech has become all half-assed with poor/no
| support. I cannot trust anything they make to be supported in
| the future anymore. RCS is still a disaster, my one friend on
| Fi with a pixel 5a still cannot get it working and Google/Fi
| has pretty said "We don't know".
|
| I do not like Apple, but after almost 20 years a Google fanboy,
| I'm starting to like Google even less. So much so that I'll
| have to eat lots of shame from the many iphone people who
| questioned my android love for years.
|
| *If anyone can convince me otherwise, please do*. I feel like
| the best thing that could happen is disposing of Sundar and
| getting someone who can refocus google on being a tech company
| devoted to making the best tech products.
| kyrra wrote:
| Googler, opinions are my own. I don't work anywhere near
| phone stuff.
|
| I assume your friend has tried all the debugging on this
| page?
| https://support.google.com/messages/answer/9363493?hl=en My
| wife's phone keeps failing to connect and we have to do the
| carrier services reset to make it work. A terrible solution
| to me requiring factory resetting your phone.
|
| But even then, I have a friend that was never able to get RCS
| to work on his phone, and he spent multiple hours with Google
| support trying to figure it out. There is something wrong
| with his account on Google and the carriers side (he tried
| multiple phones, and it never worked). The RCS team
| definitely has some corner cases to work out getting everyone
| activated, because it leads to really bad stories like this.
| Workaccount2 wrote:
| Thanks, but I feel I am reaching a point where I need my
| friend to be able to go to a physical location where they
| either fix it or clone his phone onto a new one that does
| work. I can't be google's advocate twisting my friend's arm
| to troubleshoot their phone anymore.
|
| This is just a tiny sliver of my dissatisfaction too. I
| feel like the long time lover that sits down one night and
| after a lot of thinking gives pause with "Wait, why am I
| still in this relationship?"
| mrehler wrote:
| Because those wonderful jingles made it so appealing! And
| keep you coming back for the "phone plan that can!"
| kyrra wrote:
| I think Google was in a different position than Apple in
| the case of messaging client. Apple has total control of
| the text message app on the iPhone, or Google does not.
| Google had to appease Samsung and likely some other cell
| phone makers to allow them to make their own RCS
| compatible app. Google took RCS and created universal
| profiles, and I think wants to get Apple on board with it
| so that there is a shared protocol between vendors.
|
| Apple went to full proprietary stack that no one else can
| use, while Google went the more open protocol. Open
| protocols like this always tend to have a bit more
| headache, and we're seeing that with RCS. Especially when
| some of the players are cell service providers.
|
| If the EU open protocol legislation ever pans out, I
| wonder how that would impact iMessage and RCS.
| tomtheelder wrote:
| I switched recently, and honestly have found the experience
| on iPhone to broadly be worse. There are a few things that
| are a bit nicer, but the downgrade in the notifications
| system alone just tanks the experience.
|
| That said I switched for mostly privacy reasons, so won't be
| going back.
| vidanay wrote:
| I have a company issued iPhone, and the atrocious
| notification system is enough to assure I will not buy an
| iPhone personally. If notifications in iOS were ever
| completely overhauled to the Android model, I would
| probably jump ship.
| recuter wrote:
| You should watch the WWDC keynote in 6 weeks :)
| marcosdumay wrote:
| Well, I don't really know the iOS system, but Android
| lets you authorize (or block) each different interface of
| notifications (like text, sounds, or appearing at the
| top) for each different application, and you can do that
| right from the notification itself.
|
| I imagine this is what the GP is talking about.
| vidanay wrote:
| I think you replied to the wrong comment? I am quite
| familiar with the power of the Android notification
| system. iOS notifications pale in comparison.
| MBCook wrote:
| I don't think I've ever used android for more than about 30
| seconds on someone else's phone. I wasn't aware there was a
| difference in the notification system. What makes android
| better?
| notreallyserio wrote:
| Android notifications can be more interactive. They're
| you perform quick actions like reactions to slack
| messages or archiving emails. Basically the things you
| can do on an Apple Watch but not the iPhone.
| MBCook wrote:
| That's up to the developer, the APIs have existed for
| 2ish years I think. I reply to texts and Slack messages
| through notifications.
|
| There are limits, but it's not display only like it used
| to be.
| notreallyserio wrote:
| I have yet to see a single interactive notification. What
| settings do you have to configure to get Slack to let you
| reply from a notification?
| slaw wrote:
| I reply to slack notification on Apple Watch with
| dictation or canned message. Reply on phone just opens
| slack.
| MBCook wrote:
| I believe you have to grab the notification and sort of
| "drag it down" to see the interactive part. It's not
| shown by default.
| scarface74 wrote:
| I just long pressed on a Slack notification and a "reply"
| text box appeared above the keyboard.
| danuker wrote:
| How is a completely proprietary OS more private? I think
| LineageOS is the most private.
| technothrasher wrote:
| I switched recently from years of Android usage simply
| because the car I wanted to buy only supported CarPlay. I
| could either give up Android or give up the car. I chose to
| keep the car. Now that I've had the iPhone a while, there
| seem to be about the same number of annoyances in iOS as
| there were with Android, they're just different. I think
| I'd give the edge to Android, iOS is slightly more
| annoying, but not enough to worry about switching back.
| x0x0 wrote:
| The security upgrades situation on Google is intolerable.
|
| I finally have a phone (3axl) that didn't die in a couple
| years from accidents / abuse / going to the gym in my pocket,
| and Google is eol-ing it because they've cut off security
| upgrades.
|
| My next phone will be an iphone.
| Narushia wrote:
| I thought they had moved security updates to be delivered
| via Google Play so that users could keep receiving them
| even when the OEM doesn't deliver OS updates anymore? Or
| are those separate security updates from the "normal"
| firmware security patches?
| orra wrote:
| Somewhat? The browser and presumably the webview is
| distributed through Google Play, yes. But kernel upgrades
| are not.
| tomComb wrote:
| Almost all attack services are now updated remotely by
| Google for security issues. In the kernel only video
| drivers can be updated remotely (and support for this
| depends on the vendor).
|
| I think it is a much better way to do security updates
| than the Apple model - security issues shouldn't have to
| wait for the next firmware update and for the user to
| apply them.
| Kye wrote:
| I thought that too with my last Android. It never got
| them, so my next phone was a 6S Plus in 2018 (launched in
| 2015) that still gets updates.
| tomComb wrote:
| How do you know you didn't get them? They are silent.
| Also, I don't think that 'not getting them' is an option
| other then with video drivers. The whole idea is that
| security updates should be pushed immediately to all
| devices and not require user action. You get them even if
| you don't want them.
| Kye wrote:
| There was a place to check in settings. The last one was
| years before. I don't know how it's done now.
| tomComb wrote:
| No, that's just for the security updates that must be
| applied as full firmware updates, usually because they
| are in the kernel. Google has been progressively
| redesigning Android over the past decade to the point
| where they can do all non-kernel security updates
| immediately and silently via the play store. It's a much
| better way to do it IMO.
| moogly wrote:
| I have to manually search for the Google Play System
| updates on my Galaxy S21 and Z Flip 3 (both quite new
| phones) because they are not being installed
| automatically. My brother has the same problem with his
| Galaxy S21.
| Kye wrote:
| So to be clear: I have _no_ clue about any of this. I
| like not having to think about what 's going on under the
| hood. I've never had to since getting an iPhone.
|
| It sounds like what you're saying is Google has only
| continued to shuffle ever more vital functionality into
| the Play store since I left Android, which negates the
| often claimed benefits of an "open source" operating
| system. If all the important stuff is in a proprietary
| blob attached to a proprietary platform, I might as well
| stick with the one I already know that's never given me
| any trouble. I'm not going to root my iPhone or install a
| custom OS, so that's irrelevant to me.
| tomComb wrote:
| But you don't have to worry about or understand the
| Android security updates - they are applied without you
| even having to do a firmware update. As you indicate,
| security updates are not something you should have to
| worry about.
|
| And just because they are applied by the play store
| doesn't mean they are closed source. The play store
| itself is closed source, but the security updates to the
| OS get published via the normal processes.
|
| Android is open enough to allow competition, eg. Amazon's
| Android, Microsoft's Android runtime, etc. are all done
| without Google's permission.
|
| To me, that's key, but I'm not trying to tell you whether
| open source should matter to you. I just wanted to clear
| up the stuff about the security updates because I think
| the Android way of doing it is now better than Apple's
| method.
| sillyinseattle wrote:
| > they've cut off security upgrades
|
| Same reason I switched to Apple last year -- after being
| android only since original Motorola Droid (2009).
| kyrra wrote:
| Googler opinions are my own.
|
| At least they fixed this with the pixel 6 with a 5 year
| upgrade plan.
| mdoms wrote:
| No. Google is the operating system vendor. They either
| fix this with all Android phones or they haven't fixed
| anything at all.
| Andrex wrote:
| They've been at it for years, but it's been a difficult
| problem to solve. Tangible progress has been made in the
| last 2 or so OS updates, however.
|
| https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2018/06/talkin-treble-
| how-an...
|
| https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2020/12/qualcomm-
| promises-th...
|
| https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2020/07/android-10-has-
| the-f...
| vetinari wrote:
| Google is not operating system vendor for all Android
| phones.
|
| They release a generic template, other vendors then apply
| platform kits for the SoCs they use and they release the
| operating system for their devices. Google has no idea
| what it runs on, or what is needed to make it run on
| specific devices. It is the vendor's task.
|
| Mobile devices have no UEFI, no bus enumeration, so the
| OS image has to be taylored for each device. It is
| similar to Raspberry or Odroid or similar SBCs: althrough
| both are arm, you cannot use Ubuntu (or other disto)
| image intended for one on another.
| VWWHFSfQ wrote:
| From my experience if you stay on the Google flagship/Pixel
| line then everything is great. Pretty much every other vender
| is garbage and will screw you and you'll have the experience
| you're talking about.
| selimthegrim wrote:
| Thoughts on Sony?
| spixy wrote:
| software fine, hardware fine except camera quality and
| battery size, a bit expensive
| vetinari wrote:
| Last time I had a Sony phone (Xperia Z5), the hardware was
| quite nice and the software was nearby stock Android,
| except for some apps like launcher, camera or gallery,
| which were a slightly nicer than the stock ones.
|
| But they were on a strange schedule, they released a new
| flagship every 6 months instead of every year. They of
| course could not support all the models at the same time,
| so the support was shorter that competition.
| selimthegrim wrote:
| I think they have finally gotten their support schedule
| together with the latest one.
| mdoms wrote:
| I owned a Pixel 1 and a Pixel 3 and they were two of the
| worst phones I have ever owned. You couldn't pay me to take
| another Pixel phone. I now rock a much cheaper Motorola which
| is fantastic.
| freedomben wrote:
| I typically tell people if you want an apples-to-apples (no
| pun intended) comparison, you can't compare iOS to Android.
| You need to compare iPhone to Google Pixel. If iOS was open
| source and available for 3rd parties to roll-their-own, you
| wouldn't take a cheap "iPhone" maker and compare that against
| the latest Pixel Pro, so the reverse shouldn't be done
| either.
| afterburner wrote:
| It seems though in the latest iteration at least, the Pixel
| 6 is actually worse than the Samsung S22. And frankly I've
| often felt like Samsungs were the flagship Android phones,
| not Google's phones.
| tsupiroti wrote:
| I've found Nokia/HMD also okay.
| fsa3d4uyuiy wrote:
| Question about that:
|
| What I personally do most on my phone is browsing the web (when
| not at home, at home I can do that with a regular computer). On
| Android I can use Firefox with plugins to block ads, kill
| overlays, etc... and especially it has the reader mode
|
| AFAIK on iPhone you can only run one Apple-approved browser and
| all others are a skin around that, and it doesn't have plugins.
|
| To me browsing the web is unusable without those plugins in
| Firefox. How is browsing the web on an iPhone? Do you get
| overlays, autoplaying videos and ads on websites or can you
| block them? Do you get a reader mode?
| TedDoesntTalk wrote:
| > Do you get overlays, autoplaying videos and ads on websites
| or can you block them?
|
| I use Brave Browser on an iPhone and don't see any of this,
| including ads.
| lumb63 wrote:
| I do desperately miss this. I've tried hard to get as good an
| experience as possible, but there's no denying that Android
| wins on this one. The total closed garden approach of Apple
| is way overkill and I dislike it.
| scarface74 wrote:
| Reader mode has been built into the iPhone version of Safari
| since 2010 and native support for third party "content
| blockers" since 2013.
| hellisothers wrote:
| I run ad/content blockers on iOS, I watched my wife use
| safari the other day and was shocked at how much irritating
| content/ads she deals with so I installed the same one for
| her, works a treat.
| layer8 wrote:
| Which blockers do you use?
| hellisothers wrote:
| AdGuard Pro and 1Blocker
| layer8 wrote:
| Do you see a substantial benefit in combining both? I
| already use AdGuard Pro.
| ceejayoz wrote:
| My PiHole is a must for my iOS devices.
|
| Yes, there's a reader mode.
| fsa3d4uyuiy wrote:
| Typically I use my phone when not at home since at home I
| have a computer to browse the web of course. Is pihole
| installed on your iphone? Does it work when in a train, in
| a restaurant somewhere, etc...?
| scrose wrote:
| You can use pihole over a vpn.
|
| One common example is setting up Tailscale on Pihole and
| your phone and then you can set the dns on whatever Wifi
| you're on to the Piholes private IP
| adamomada wrote:
| There is a systemwide ad-blocker available called MYbloXX[0]
| that I've been using on a jb iPhone, but you can also use it
| on a stock iOS device with the caveat that you have to do a
| device restore to be able to apply the configuration. The web
| site is a bit cheese but the developer has been doing this
| for years and it works really well, across all apps. You can
| see the PAC file it uses here[1]
|
| Alternatively, I've just signed up for the Orion browser
| beta[2] for Mac and there is a testflight available for iOS.
| This can apparently use (some) WebExtensions, notably uBlock
| origin. I cannot run testflight apps on my old jb iPhone so I
| can't speak to how well it works
|
| [0] https://myxxdev.github.io/depictions/MYbloXXforiOS/MYbloX
| Xfo...
|
| [1] https://myxxfm.com/script
|
| [2] https://browser.kagi.com/
| kccqzy wrote:
| Yes there's a reader mode built in to the browser. Ad
| blockers are available since 2015, although these are
| declarative ad blockers. Custom web extensions are also
| available more recently; these can actually run custom JS.
| fsa3d4uyuiy wrote:
| I'm not sure what the implications of "declarative ad
| blockers" are. Do you need to manually block them or
| something?
| [deleted]
| shkkmo wrote:
| allow/deny lists rather than any sort of realtime dynamic
| filtering
| kccqzy wrote:
| It means all ad blocking rules must be compiled and then
| sent to Safari. You can't, for example, execute some
| JavaScript to find out what elements to block. The format
| of these precompiled rules isn't as flexible as, say,
| uBlock Origin, but works well enough in practice.
|
| https://developer.apple.com/library/archive/documentation
| /Ge...
| finiteseries wrote:
| Safari has extensions you can get from the App Store
| including ad blockers, overlay removers etc
| howinteresting wrote:
| Those extensions don't work with other browsers, though.
| fsa3d4uyuiy wrote:
| Does it also have extensions like redirect to old.reddit
| and such? If so, then it sounds like it would allow more
| user control than the latest versions of firefox of
| android, is this really true?
| finiteseries wrote:
| Yes https://apps.apple.com/us/app/oldr-redirect-for-
| reddit/id158...
|
| You can also have Reddit links opened automatically in eg
| Apollo.
| layer8 wrote:
| I'm looking for a plugin where I can define my own custom
| mappings (via regex-like patterns). Anyone know such a
| plugin?
| fsa3d4uyuiy wrote:
| Is it also possible to make and use your own plugins?
|
| Also I'm a bit confused that browser plugins are apps.
| Are they actually running as individual apps, or part of
| the browser?
|
| Can they get taken down?
| finiteseries wrote:
| Yes, but I don't know what's like without a developer
| account.
|
| All extensions are distributed as native apps, usually
| bundled into the primary app and are (when applicable)
| installed into Safari when they're installed onto the
| device.
|
| There are Content Blockers, App Extensions (into/out of
| Safari), Web Extensions ("of" Safari), share extensions
| etc with different limitations and abilities that run
| individually within their apps and message Safari and
| other apps, or have rules read ahead of time by Safari
| with no runtime access, or run within Safari using the
| WebExtension API etc etc
|
| The archetypal web browser plug-in via the WebExtension
| API totally exists and are convertible for the most part
| to Safari's very proprietary but very user conscious
| ecosystem.
|
| https://developer.apple.com/safari/extensions/
| asddubs wrote:
| the API for content blockers is more limited, so it's not
| going to be as good as ublock origin, but yes, they do
| exist
| grumpyprole wrote:
| But the iPhone only "just works" if you completely buy in to
| Apple's ecosystem. E.g. if you want to buy some FLAC music
| files from somewhere else, it won't "just work" anymore.
| Android is still the lesser of two evils in terms of allowing
| more choice on its platform.
| MBCook wrote:
| > E.g. if you want to buy some FLAC music files from
| somewhere else, it won't "just work" anymore.
|
| The thing is nobody* does that.
|
| There are a few. That's why I added the asterisk. But
| realistically very few people actually do it. Especially
| compared to the number of iPhones they sell every year.
|
| If you were using MP3 files, you wouldn't have an issue. Or
| AAC. There might even be others. Apple really likes to make
| things easy, but they tend to only do it for the common case.
| That's what gets the most use, that's what makes the most
| people happy, that's what they focus on.
|
| If you're the kind of person who wants to do things that are
| far out of the mainstream you're never going to be happy with
| an iPhone. You can use other apps as other people pointed
| out. But I wouldn't expect this to ever work in Apple's music
| player. It's the same reason you can't have root, re-theme
| your phone heavily, replace the dialer, or a lot of other
| heavy customizations. That's not what they focus on.
|
| It's just their ethos.
| xvector wrote:
| Not sure what you're talking about. I have zero issues using
| my FLAC files from elsewhere on my iPhone.
| Espressosaurus wrote:
| How do you play it? How do you import them into your
| library? If it's not mp3, aac, or m4a, iTunes won't index
| it, it won't end up in your library, and any of the
| standard music apps will not play it.
|
| Speaking from experience because this is a continuing pain
| point for my music collection that includes oddball formats
| like flac, ogg, and others--none of which I can even get on
| my phone without using a cloud service.
| codr7 wrote:
| I use VLC, which works great.
|
| I don't use iTunes, ever, anywhere; and I feel sorry for
| anyone who does.
| xvector wrote:
| Nevermind, looks like I had some conversion going on to
| get those files on my iPhone. It's irrelevant anyways,
| since AAC is audibly transparent to the human ear.
| grumpyprole wrote:
| AAC may not be audibly transparent after its transcoded
| for Bluetooth. If you are using Apple headphones then
| this of course shouldn't happen, but for Sony's LDAC,
| better to start with FLAC.
| chillwaves wrote:
| Try using a custom ringtone that you do not purchase
| through the Apple store.
| bombcar wrote:
| I forget how I got it setup but I have a custom ringtone
| for one contact that I certainly didn't buy.
| prepend wrote:
| This used to bother me, but I haven't used a ringtone at
| all for 10 years so I really don't care anymore.
|
| Although before that, I made my own ringtone using
| GarageBand off a ripped mp3 and didn't buy anything
| through the apple store.
| throwawayboise wrote:
| LOL yeah my ringtone for all calls is silence.
| grumpyprole wrote:
| You must have installed some niche piece of software that
| the vast majority of iPhone users will never use or hear
| about. Hopefully the indie dev keeps updating it and Apple
| never pulls it from the store!
| [deleted]
| 62951413 wrote:
| I have never been able to make an Apple laptop recognize my
| phone as a USB storage device to copy photos from it.
|
| GOOG phones used to cost less than half of APPL ones. And for
| a while to have physically wider screens which made them
| better book readers. Unfortunately the price difference seems
| to be nearly negligible now.
| lostgame wrote:
| Huh? In what world can't I use FLAC files on my iPhone? VLC
| does it great, I use them almost literally every day...
| grumpyprole wrote:
| How do you even get the files on the iPhone? I see long
| blog posts discussing the steps needed for this. Not really
| "just works" is it?
| [deleted]
| ninjakttty wrote:
| VLC is currently #18 in the app store in the media player
| category. It's not just some linux app. As to how to get
| flac files on the iPhone,
|
| 1) you can connect it a computer open Finder go to apps
| section drag the file there
|
| 2) put the file in the iCloud and access it from any
| device with the files app on
|
| 3) in Safari if a link is a media file you can share it
| with VLC
|
| and that's just 3 off the top of my head, I think there's
| a couple more. It's really not that hard, gone are the
| days where apps needed to run local webservers to slurp
| content. But actually VLC can actually probably get media
| that way too.
| lotsofpulp wrote:
| I type in the URL shown in the VLC app on my computer and
| drag and drop files to it, when I am connected to same
| network of course.
|
| https://www.videolan.org/vlc/download-ios.html
|
| > A media library, with WiFi Uploads & Downloads,
| Dropbox, Google Drive, iCloud Drive, OneDrive & Box.com
| integration and optional passcode lock.
|
| >Web Interface for easy uploads and downloads to/from
| device.
| grumpyprole wrote:
| But how do you "sync" music libraries with the phone
| storage? Dragging and dropping files is still not a great
| experience and doesn't scale.
| devinegan wrote:
| I use Plex/Plexamp... syncs my FLAC albums and playlists.
| I can use it on any platform if I choose to do so.
| deathanatos wrote:
| The last time I had an iPhone (for work) it required an
| adapter to be able to connect to a MacBook Pro.
| adamomada wrote:
| There are third-party apps available that handle FLAC just
| fine. I use a paid app called Neutron Music Player mainly
| because it has an SMB client to connect to a NAS with my FLAC
| collection, but you can also use its built-in server to
| transfer FLAC to internal storage. I think you can even sync
| the SMB source to local storage as well but I haven't
| explored that, since I play them over the network just fine.
| coolsunglasses wrote:
| My iPhone 13 Pro Max has 120 hz, so that feature is available.
| I don't mind that it was Android only for a bit, very little on
| that platform can actually render a non-static UI at that rate.
| vetinari wrote:
| > very little on that platform can actually render a non-
| static UI at that rate.
|
| you would be surprised, try it sometime.
| drewg123 wrote:
| I did the same, roughly two years ago. I'd been Android since
| the Nexus One. The lack of commitment to long-term support is
| what did it for me. Between Apple's support for OS updates for
| much older hardware than Google, and the fact that we can get a
| phone battery replaced at an Apple store rather than a sketchy
| phone repair place is what did it for me.
|
| For me, the downsides are:
|
| - Notifications really suck. Everything has the same sound,
| unless the developer really cares. Its far harder to have
| custom alert sounds vs Android.
|
| - Garmin watch notifications can't be filtered. I realize this
| is partly Garmin's fault, since apparently competitors have
| worked their way around it.
|
| - I hate that "firefox" on iOS is a wrapper for Safari, and I
| can't use add-ons like uBlock
| filoleg wrote:
| A minor note on your last point: since the last major iOS
| release, Safari now supports extensions. I use one for
| adblocking, for redirecting every AMP link to a non-AMP
| version of the page, as well as the one that automatically
| redirects every reddit link from a webpage to Apollo (a third
| party reddit app).
| TedDoesntTalk wrote:
| Try Brave Browser on iOS for ad blocking.
| vmception wrote:
| > The amount of time I spent arguing vehemently that Android
| was superior made the switch hard
|
| That's big of you to mention.
|
| I think one could make a series of sketches called "Android
| users says the darndest things!" with a laugh track at every
| argument.
|
| _The following is all for North America specifically, and
| those here that are android users by choice._
|
| The impression I get is that every iPhone user has heard all
| the arguments before and understand the accuracy of those
| arguments and its the android users that lack the self
| awareness in that area and other areas of their life, and this
| has been reflected in how people have just resorted to
| ostracizing android users by co-opting iOS' "green bubbles" as
| a scarlet letter. (Obviously outside of North America people
| use cross platform chat apps, and also there is a much higher
| percent of android use.)
|
| Correct, nobody cares that a some flagship device running
| android has a novel reality bending camera, when you can't
| share it with anyone, especially when traveling or hiking or
| doing anything cool away from civilization when such a thing
| would be useful. The iOS users have a built in way of sharing
| in no signal environments, and that way of sharing retains all
| the extra bells and whistles (motion, with the image..? a lot
| of people like that).
|
| Back in North America, Android users might say "its 80% of the
| marketshare, worldwide!" yeah but what about here? Where iOS is
| more than half, the article mentions it:
|
| > It's a close-fought battle between iOS and Android in
| N.America and Oceania though the former edges it. IOS commands
| 54% of the market in both regions, while Android takes nearly
| 45%.
|
| What about in the city you live in? People are not choosing
| Android devices when its a choice. That audience must be like
| 5%.
|
| But yeah, its nice you unsubscribed after some time period of
| vehemently arguing about things nobody cares about. iOS gets
| the best features from flagship android devices and OS and
| ignores all the other ones that don't hit.
| rejectfinite wrote:
| vmception wrote:
| more likely because of our major cultural influence from
| the concept of scarlet letters
| goosedragons wrote:
| Android devices have "Nearby Share" now. Works basically the
| same as Airdrop. I use it to beam documents to my eReader all
| the time.
|
| If you need to copy a file to a computer all you need is a
| cable and a decent OS that supports MTP and you can then just
| drag the file off like a USB drive. It's great and requires
| no special software unless you like fruit flavored computers.
|
| One of the things I really like about my Samsung phone is I
| can have an alphabetical ordering of my apps in the drawer.
| With iOS you have to painstakingly rearrange every app to get
| that or use the shitty hidden alphabetical scrolling list
| they finally graced everyone with after 14 years.
|
| I switched from an iPhone XS to Android. XS still works, had
| a choice, just got tired of Apples shit.
| spicymaki wrote:
| > That's big of you to mention. Agreed, we need a lot more
| people normalizing prosocial behavior.
|
| I was guilty of being on the Team Linux vs. Team Windows war
| back in the day and then I had an epiphany! You could like
| both. You could actually use what suits you when it suits
| you. Cheers.
| na85 wrote:
| >people have just resorted to ostracizing android users by
| co-opting iOS' "green bubbles" as a scarlet letter.
|
| What does this mean?
| vmception wrote:
| iOS messaging has end to end encryption by default, when
| that is enabled the messages are shown within a "blue
| bubble".
|
| When this is not possible, it falls back to sending normal
| SMS, which can be read in plain text by third parties in
| the middle and has no encryption, when that occurs messages
| are shown within a "green bubble".
|
| Therefore, messaging android users shows a "green bubble".
| People know its both an android user and unencrypted.
|
| This also results in a worse messaging experience for the
| iOS users, as all of their other rich media is disabled and
| handicapped as long as that conversation involves an
| android user.
| howinteresting wrote:
| The thing is, zero people I regularly chat with (SF bay
| area) use iMessage. Most people in my US friend group use
| Signal, the rest use Facebook, and many of my
| international contacts use Whatsapp.
| blacksmith_tb wrote:
| Hmm, I have never heard anyone mention "knowing its...
| unencrypted" I doubt most iOS users would care about
| that, realistically. Note that the experience is bad in
| both directions (at least for me in Signal on Android I
| get to endure a lot of 'so and so loved whole-text-of-
| previous-message' instead of just a heart emoji - I see
| that GOOG has improved things Messages recently to parse
| those, at least)
| vmception wrote:
| Right it's just a convenient scape goat now, for an
| existing disdain against those people
| martinflack wrote:
| For a long-form answer, Marques Brownlee has a video[0]
| that discusses the technical, commercial, and social
| aspects.
|
| [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BuaKzm7Kq9Q
| vmception wrote:
| Great video, I watched the whole thing, covers everything
|
| The comments cover other aspects like middle school
| teachers seeing it first hand amongst students
| freedomben wrote:
| > _The impression I get is that every iPhone user has heard
| all the arguments before and understand the accuracy of those
| arguments and its the android users that lack the self
| awareness in that area and other areas of their life,_
|
| This might be the most ironic comment I've read in a long
| time. 90%+ of users on both platforms are purely religious
| about their choice, and if there's one thing I can say that
| most of them have in common, it's (over)confidence that they
| understand "the other side" while utterly failing to. There
| are 3 topics that I used to discuss regularly but now avoid
| with most people because too much processing happens in the
| Amygdala: religion, politics, and phone religion (aka iphone
| v. android).
|
| I think it's also worth adding that a lot of "preference"
| just comes down to choice based on values. If you highly
| value cohesive user experience, security (especially from own
| mistakes), and brand recognition/status, more curated app
| store, then iPhone is a good choice. If you highly value
| device ownership (for example my device, my choice to
| sideload or root, ability to run apps that can reach deeper
| into the device, unlock bootloader and install custom ROMs),
| price (not really true anymore though), etc then android is
| for you.
| lumb63 wrote:
| I still think the ultimate platform is yet to be out there.
| It's foolish in hindsight to religiously fanboy either iOS
| or Android. There is still no platform that is fully
| featured, with strong network effect (where needed - which
| should be less than it is), privacy, security, open source,
| control in the hands of the user, customization...etc. The
| idea that users should have to choose one or the other and
| cannot like all the features is perhaps holding us back.
| hedgehog wrote:
| Most people just buy whatever they had last, whatever most
| of their friends and family have, or whatever is cheap. I
| doubt more than 10% of people think about it very hard.
| vmception wrote:
| yeah maybe.
|
| In this case its just tech enthusiasts that fall for
| evangelizing the technical prowess while ignoring that the
| social aspect of a technically good-enough system is more
| important to people. tech enthusiasts do this in other
| areas of their life too. just a heavy correlation, which
| people experience nationwide.
| rejectfinite wrote:
| - Extremely slow and fragmented upgrade of OS. This resulted in
| substantially older features and security patches.
|
| Samsung phones does 4 years of updates now.
|
| - Privacy. iMessage's encryption (though I stand by that it is
| gimmicky to only offer for iPhones, and I despise that) has a
| serious network effect. Apple is also far more transparent in
| what data they use, how they use it, etc.
|
| iMessage? Everyone here (Scandinavia) uses FB Mewssenger,
| Whatsapp, Telegram or Discord anyway. The data thing, sure
|
| - Ironically, price. At the time, the iPhone was cheaper than
| the equivalent Android phone.
|
| Thats fair.
|
| The big thing for me with Android is price (my Asus 5z from 208
| still going strong)
|
| Customization, and I don't mean homescreen I mean that
| webbrowsers are not just Safari re-skins, Firefox has actual
| addons for excample, there is the Google playstore but I can
| also use F-Droid
|
| And there aren't really downsides to Android imo
| throwawayboise wrote:
| Yep. There is one reason and one reason only I am on Android:
| price. A mobile phone does not have enough value to me to pay
| for Apple's least expensive phone.
| GeekyBear wrote:
| The $399 iPhone SE is currently on it's sixth year of OS
| updates.
| drdec wrote:
| Exactly. I was recently talking to a guy who had had his
| iPhone stolen. But it was no big deal - he had replacement
| insurance and the deductible was only $200. Which is more
| than I have ever paid for a phone in my life.
| 2muchcoffeeman wrote:
| I use an iPhone but I was surprised the OP mentioned
| price as a reason to switch.
| skinnymuch wrote:
| Price of phone shouldn't be used as a barometer. It
| should be the price you end up paying per month when all
| is said and done.
| Dayshine wrote:
| I pay PS10/3 months plus PS200-300 every 4 years for a
| phone.
| Silhouette wrote:
| _Samsung phones does 4 years of updates now._
|
| Four whole years?
|
| It _should_ be outrageous that we might consider such a short
| period acceptable for devices as expensive and otherwise
| long-lasting as a high-end Samsung phone. That it is not
| really surprising at all is a sad reflection on how
| normalised shipping insecure connected devices with
| inadequate support has become.
|
| Obviously we don't yet know how to build 100% secure devices
| of this complexity but we are talking about some of the
| biggest businesses in the world here. There is little excuse
| not to require (by law if necessary) essential security
| updates for a much longer period given the reasonable useful
| life of the hardware and the rest of the software on it.
| sircastor wrote:
| > Four whole years? It should be outrageous that we might
| consider such a short period acceptable for devices as
| expensive and otherwise long-lasting as a high-end Samsung
| phone.
|
| I mean, yes, but it wasn't that long ago that Google had to
| get everyone to agree to at least 18 months. And the market
| would correct for that, but everyone was doing the same
| thing - abandoning a device mere months after its release.
|
| And from the manufacturers side it's not hard to understand
| why the finance dept doesn't want you to spend more money
| on a product that's already been purchased.
| fsdjkflsjfsoij wrote:
| > Samsung phones does 4 years of updates now.
|
| That's terrible.
| KronisLV wrote:
| Hmm, seeing as even most desktop OSes out there aren't
| supported for much longer, i'm not sure whether things are
| terrible in that regard.
|
| Debian's EOL comes to mind, even Ubuntu LTS isn't supported
| for much longer, CentOS was supposed to be the more stable
| option but that didn't work out either.
|
| Though for some reason mobile devices are somewhat crippled
| in regards to upgrading to new OS releases versus their
| desktop counterparts: not being update from Android X to
| Android Y is the real terrible bit here.
|
| Not sure why on earth that should be acceptable or why the
| drivers should be such an insurmountable problem, wherein
| using anything but flagship phones with third party ROMs is
| a total mess (i've personally had everything from the touch
| screen to radio, to even Wi-Fi stop working).
| notreallyserio wrote:
| > Samsung phones does 4 years of updates now.
|
| That's really, really poor. I mean it's good for the Android
| ecosystem but their biggest competitor is at six+.
|
| edit: replaced "almost twice that number of years" with
| "six+".
| jrochkind1 wrote:
| So... I'm curious, why were you spending a lot of time arguing
| vehemently that Android was superior, at the same time you
| weren't actually liking it yourself?
|
| [I have an Android phone, and don't love it or hate it.]
| amiga-workbench wrote:
| I'd accidentally dropped my Mi Mix 2S in the bath and screwed
| the display, so while I waited a month for a new display & body
| to arrive from China I grabbed a refurbished Pixel 3a to hold
| me over. After seeing the absolute state of the Android 12 UI,
| I'm bailing out to a Pinephone Pro as soon as its viable.
| shkkmo wrote:
| I've had pixels and motos for years and never really had any
| issue with being slow to receive updates. The real issue is the
| short lifespan of software support. It doesn't affect me
| personally because I lose / break phones often enough that I
| don't run into it. I just find deals on mid range phones that
| make them cheap to replace.
|
| I keep an eye on the libre phone space, so when I hopefully
| finally ditch android, it will be in that direction (unless
| perhaps regulations force Apple to open their walled garden,
| then we'll see.)
| jmrm wrote:
| Today we can buy a really good (and small) iPhone from $430 with
| the same powerful SoC than the bigger ones and more years of
| updates, so more future-proof than a similar price Android phone.
|
| For markets outside the more expensive parts of the US, this is a
| big deal, because in a country where the monthly income excluding
| taxes is between $1500 and $2500 (like most of the UE countries),
| paying $1000 or more in a phone is a huge thing, and this
| inexpensive iPhone maybe have a reasonable price for those
| clients.
| cercatrova wrote:
| I'd use iOS if they let me install whatever apps I wanted
| ("sideloading" as a term feels weird, as if they deign their
| users to load apps on the side, by their good graces. No, it's
| our hardware, we should be able to run whatever we want).
|
| Android lets me do that, so I use it. No way I'd be without
| Vanced (rip) and other such apps. Android also has more
| interesting form factors, such as the folding phones, which Apple
| does not yet have.
| skinnymuch wrote:
| Do you have a folding phone?
| dlevine wrote:
| After suffering through the Blackberry Storm and then a few
| Motorola Phones with the Motoblur, I tried a Nexus 4. I liked
| stock Android a lot better, but a bunch of my friends and family
| were using iPhones, and I wanted iMessage.
|
| So I upgraded to a year-old iPhone 5, and have never looked back.
| It just worked better. Every app just worked, and the UI felt
| somehow smoother. I'm on an iPhone 11 right now.
| teekert wrote:
| I was an Android person, mainly because I didn't want to spend
| >400 on a device (my OP3 lasted 5 years for 400 eur, ran
| Lineage). But there were no high end smaller smartphones. I got
| an iPhone 12 mini (2x what I normally paid), after getting used
| to it, I just feel there isn't a big difference between the 2
| OSs. I like the high end feel, good cam, but Android phones of
| that price have that too. All my fav apps are there (with the
| exception of Gadgetbridge). It just works well for a self hoster
| (Home Assistant, NextCloud, don't even need davx5 for
| web/caldav), just as well as Android.
| lizardactivist wrote:
| Android may get an upswing once it finally adopts Fuschia with a
| "classic" Android compatibility layer (at least that's what I
| think they will do).
|
| But they will certainly have to push for devices with longer
| support than 3 years to keep that upswing.
| MBCook wrote:
| Could you explain your comment? I don't really follow android
| development. Was Fuschia the new OS Google was writing from
| scratch? Why do you think that will make a big difference?
| marcodiego wrote:
| Sure: https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-
| share#monthly-201001-20... ?
| pestaa wrote:
| Haha so in reality, it even surpassed Windows in the last 5
| years! (Granted it has more to do with desktop losing to
| mobile.)
| ceejayoz wrote:
| iOS Safari occasionally brags to me about how many third-party
| trackers it has blocked, by default.
|
| I suspect that's gonna impact StatCounter's data collection.
| IMSAI8080 wrote:
| A more interesting thing I see on those stats is Android looks
| likely to beat iOS in tablets in the next couple of years. I
| don't know anyone at all with an Android tablet. I thought
| Apple had the tablet market pretty much conquered.
| MrAwesome wrote:
| That's all platforms - I also had my doubts, but if you switch
| to the mobile view, it does appear that Android has dipped in
| percent the last few years: https://gs.statcounter.com/os-
| market-share/mobile/worldwide#...
| smrtinsert wrote:
| I've never had a complaint against the OS but I've only used
| Samsung phones. My main complaint with Android is the marketplace
| and automated support. It should not be possible to remove a
| livelihood without some human review and interaction. What a
| horrible experience people have had. How is that appropriate for
| an OS that supposedly is "developer friendly"? I will never open
| the Android SDK again, it's just not worth it.
|
| As to the green bubble fracas, Google only has themselves to
| blame. Maybe they should hire competent leadership to make an
| genuinely interesting or useful social product. Years of focusing
| on leetcode has rotted their brains.
|
| My next phone will be an iphone. Sorry Samsung, it wasn't your
| fault.
| Neil44 wrote:
| Is the Huawei situation involved in this drop?
| dr_dshiv wrote:
| It was why I went to iPhone. Huawei made great phones. I cant
| use a Samsung. Just cant. Pixel was too expensive.
|
| I used to joke that when I'd loudly state "I support the
| actions of the Chinese government" I'd get an extra 5% battery
| life. Sigh.
| cuteboy19 wrote:
| Some Samsung phones have excellent battery life. You do have
| to deal with bloat and Knox though
| hn_throwaway_99 wrote:
| It's been mentioned before in other articles, but I don't think
| it can be understated how much iMessage makes it difficult to be
| the "odd man out" if you're on an Android phone. And it's not
| just about teenagers, and it's not about "green bubbles".
|
| I recently went on a vacation with friends, 4 other folks on
| iPhones and me on an Android. Our group chat experience almost
| made me consider getting an iPhone. The inability to do emoji
| responds, and the fact that shared videos always looked like shit
| on my phone were just 2 of the examples. And I'm well past middle
| age! I can imagine what it feels like to be a high schooler or
| young adult feeling like the reason the group chat experience is
| sucking is because "you're the one with the Android".
| howinteresting wrote:
| You could just ask everyone to install Signal or even WhatsApp?
| They're friends of yours, so it seems like the least they can
| do for you.
| Kye wrote:
| Either you have especially pliant friends, or you've never
| tried to do this.
| Vadoff wrote:
| WhatsApp, Messenger, or even Instagram are all potential
| alternatives. All from the Facebook family.
| chipgap98 wrote:
| > All from the Facebook family.
|
| I think that makes plenty of people on HN hesitant to adopt
| those
| npteljes wrote:
| I mean, every other IM software is an alternative. The point
| is that how do you get everyone on the same platform.
| SergeAx wrote:
| This is totally US problem. Any other country - no one even
| consider using proprietary OS chat app. Everyone uses either
| WhatsApp (Europe) or Telegram (exUSSR, Middle East).
| lumb63 wrote:
| Agreed. This was a hard one for me to accept, because being in
| tech, I am fully aware that iMessage is a software gimmick to
| lock people into the ecosystem. There is no reason,
| technically, that things have to be like this, and I dislike
| Apple strongly for this. But it works, because here I am on my
| iPhone.
| notatoad wrote:
| As much as I hate promoting Facebook products, "let's make a
| WhatsApp group" seems to be the socially-acceptable solution to
| this. Everybody has it installed and always seems to be happy
| to switch communication over to it if somebody in the group
| suggests it.
| shrimp_emoji wrote:
| WhatsApp?
|
| What is this, 2010? It's all about Discord now bb (who
| refused to be bought by Microsoft BD)
| hackernewds wrote:
| This is really where Facebook can excel against Apple.
| Although I do prefer my messages to be more like emails and
| texts - not platform-bound. Currently I have to have
| Whatsapp, Messenger, Viber, Telegram, Signal to talk to diff
| groups of people. Why isn't there a unified protocol and
| system?
| SergeAx wrote:
| Because every company wants its own walled garden. They
| think it's increasing their market cap.
| christophilus wrote:
| I use iMessage. I haven't used a Facebook product in at least
| a decade, and am not starting now.
| qsdf38100 wrote:
| No way I let Facebook get access to my phone contacts. I
| guess this is worth billions for them, because it's a huge
| social graph they were missing. Interestingly the option to
| use the app without giving away all your contacts has been
| removed years ago. It tells a lot. Note that Signal still
| works without your contacts.
| SergeAx wrote:
| So, you would never give up your contact list to one mega
| corp, but readily give it away to another. How do you made
| that decision? Asking not rhetorically and without sarcasm.
| armadsen wrote:
| I think this is only really true outside of the US. I only
| have WhatsApp installed because I've spent time outside the
| US (Africa, specifically) and it's defacto standard there. I
| literally _never_ use it to talk to people in the US, nor do
| I know anyone else here who uses it.
| tasuki wrote:
| I'm well outside the US (Eastern Europe) and have never
| needed WhatsApp. I can talk with all the people I know over
| Google Hangouts or Facebook Messenger. Perhaps it's also an
| age thing? I guess the youngsters use WhatsApp.
| [deleted]
| doliveira wrote:
| This whole green bubble seems to be very much an American
| phenomenon, I don't think it's the one responsible. Outside the
| US people just use WhatsApp.
| ubermonkey wrote:
| I am an Apple user. I migrated from Windows the the Mac in the
| late 90s, and the shift to OS X only cemented my relationship
| with the platform. Having a unixy (well, BSD-y) system with MS
| Office on it is a powerful combo for my line of work, and so I am
| still here.
|
| I disdained the iPhone at first, but ended up getting won over
| pretty quickly. At introduction, it was just better than anything
| else, and the smooth connectivity between my Mac and my phone was
| really appealing. As the platform has grown, I've stayed with it;
| I've never really used Android for a long period of time except
| for a brief dalliance with a tablet a few years ago.
|
| I'm not here to argue about which is better. I know which works
| better for ME, and is more appealing to ME. I say all this to
| establish my position. Silly people describe people like me as
| "fanboys," as though it's not possible to make a rational
| decision to use this ecosystem. Whatever.
|
| HERE'S MY POINT:
|
| I do not welcome news of Android market share loss. I do not want
| Apple to become the kind of dominant player in mobile that
| Microsoft was on the desktop 25 years ago. That kind of platform
| control inevitably becomes toxic, IMO. MSFT absolutely sought to
| exploit that position from the getgo; Apple doesn't seem to have
| the same kind of insane ALL PIE FOR ME motivation, but
| supermajority market share is a hell of a drug.
|
| So while I have no interest in USING an Android phone or table, I
| very very much Android to right its ship and maintain their
| position as a peer or near-peer to iOS.
|
| Credible competition is good for the market, and thus good for my
| preferred platform.
| MBCook wrote:
| This seems a little bit like a good thing to me. I agree it's
| important to have at least two good options. Whenever one
| company has too much market share things stagnate.
|
| Android is now at 70%. The closer that gets to 50% the better.
| I don't care if that's because Apple gets closer to 50%, or if
| they stay near 25% and new competitors take up the rest.
|
| The US has always skewed marketplace percentages. My
| understanding is in many countries Android had a massive
| majority. The less that's the case, the better I think things
| will be for consumers.
| jccalhoun wrote:
| i have an android phone and an ipad. IpadOS frustrates me nearly
| daily. Maybe I am thinking too android or windows-like but I just
| don't understand some of the choices regarding settings and file
| management.
| MBCook wrote:
| The iPad is different from the iPhone. I don't blame you. Even
| a ton of big Apple fans are not happy. The recent iPads are
| very powerful but the OS is still substantially similar to what
| the iPad 2 shipped with (which was designed for a phone). The
| power is locked behind the OS. It's a pain.
|
| An absolute roar of approval would go up if they announced
| fixes to iPadOS at WWDC this year. Or any year.
| theawless wrote:
| Every two months my company disables work access on my android
| phone because it doesn't have the latest security updates. That's
| one reason why I'm considering an iPhone in the future.
| naoqj wrote:
| I've always used Android, thinking that it would improve with
| age. But eventually I had to face the fact that Android is always
| going to suck. On top of that every year it gets more and more
| locked down. Why not buy an iphone instead? At least it works
| well.
| rejectfinite wrote:
| What sucks about Android?
| CameronNemo wrote:
| Performance, battery life, dependence on Google, inconsistent
| UIs from different manufacturers, bloatware from networks,
| networks control updates, most phones don't even get much in
| the way of updates.
| naoqj wrote:
| Even the Pixel software just feels like a knock-off of iOS.
| Same UI paradigms, gestures, etc but everything feels
| cheaper.
| postalrat wrote:
| They are both copying each other.
| hunterb123 wrote:
| I don't think that was his point. Companies take features
| from competitors all the time.
|
| But even with that "feature sharing", Android's flagship
| phone still feels like more of a knockoff compared to any
| iPhone.
|
| Having owned every Pixel and the Nexus predecessors, they
| have about a 3 year lifespan, software is slow and
| freezes start after a few updates, the battery isn't
| great to start but shits out after year 2, then oled
| burn-ins.
|
| But I got $5 for my Nexus 6P bootloop class action
| settlement, so there's that I guess...
| onlyrealcuzzo wrote:
| What are you doing on your phone where performance matters,
| or what Android phone are you comparing to a relatively new
| iPhone?
|
| I have a 2 year old mid-level Android and have had 0
| performance issues or crashes (aside from Android Auto).
| hunterb123 wrote:
| Android phones seem to know when you're in an urgent
| situation.
|
| Need a quick photo? Is maps giving you a direction? Oh
| let me freeze up! Let me hide the soft keyboard until you
| restart! Let me get into a bootloop!
| CameronNemo wrote:
| Browsing the web, using normal apps. Things are just
| snappier on iOS in my experience. It is not a big deal.
| But it is one area that android could be improved.
| climb_stealth wrote:
| This is always interesting. I don't even buy phones anymore
| if they don't support Lineageos. It fixes all those issues.
| It still surprises me when I see stock Samsung devices and
| how utterly rubbish they are. And they are sold as premium
| flagship devices. The amount of bloat and garbage is
| incredible.
|
| _waves fist at sky_
| Mikeb85 wrote:
| And? Does it really matter? Android is the #1 OS of _all_ user
| devices worldwide. When you 're at the top only one direction to
| go... iOS gained a bit in the developed world but Android enables
| tons of people all over the world to communicate and do things.
| bobbylarrybobby wrote:
| Until Android reaches 100%, it'll have two directions to go
| UglyToad wrote:
| While it could maybe be phrased better I think this is the crux
| of the matter. I'm typing this on a US$200 (roughly) phone. I
| don't particularly care about, or have any affinity to, the OS.
| I don't even remember the manufacturer, Xiaomi maybe, but I use
| it because it cost slightly under 200 dollars.
|
| The choice for a lot of people I imagine is more between no
| phone vs Android rather than iOS vs Android. On the island I'm
| living on currently the bottom tier but usable Motorola or
| Samsung phones are like local$600 and I think Apple devices
| start around local$4000+.
| naoqj wrote:
| > Android enables tons of people all over the world to
| communicate and do things.
|
| This... sounds like an ad.
| Mikeb85 wrote:
| It's the truth. Go to Africa, go to South America, a bunch of
| places, people running businesses and whatnot off their
| phones. Hardly anyone uses iOS outside a few rich countries.
| Because most people use them to do stuff, so most
| open/ubiquitous (and yes cheap) wins.
|
| People somehow worried about an OS given away for free that
| is still the #1 OS of _all user devices_ including
| desktops...
| naoqj wrote:
| They use android because they can't afford iphones, not
| because "you can do more" with androids
| Mikeb85 wrote:
| And where did I say that?
| naoqj wrote:
| You said that "people use [androids] to do stuff" as if
| you couldn't do stuff with iphones.
| Mikeb85 wrote:
| I said the open, cheap and ubiquitous nature gets it into
| the hands of people who care about doing things. The
| implication is not that you can do more rather that you
| can do the same without spending as much on an iPhone
| (especially since in most of the world people buy devices
| outright).
|
| And it's the truth. You can _do_ the same with a $400
| Android as a top of the line Samsung /Apple device save
| some games...
| om2 wrote:
| > So what's behind this even erosion of Android's command of the
| OS Market? StockApps.com's finance expert Edith Reads ... She
| attributes Android losing its ground to increased competition
| within the space ... " Android's loss of market share boils down
| to heightened competition within the OS space. A look at the data
| shows that iOS gained 6% between July 2018 and January 2022. From
| 19.4% then, Apple has grown its OS market share to 25.49%."
|
| Wow, Android share went down because iOS share went up? Thank
| goodness we had a finance expert to provide this amazing insight.
| fencepost wrote:
| I'm carrying 2 phones these days, one iPhone SE that I've had for
| a couple years and look forward to getting OS updates on for
| another 3+ (unless I decide I just must have 5G and upgrade) and
| now a Samsung A53 5G that they've also promised will get at least
| 4 generations of OS upgrades. Without the newer trend towards
| longer support for devices, I'd probably have looked at a second
| iPhone instead.
|
| Google (and handset vendors) started to make relying on an
| Android phone for more than a couple years just as unattractive
| as depending on a Google service for more than a few years.
| Combine that with the long-ago demise of "don't be evil" and the
| more recent utter failure of "fine, be evil, but at least don't
| be f*cking _creepy_ " Google's a hard sell these days. The way
| all the rest of us get caught in the fallout of their internal
| (product) politics got old a long time ago.
| jl6 wrote:
| What I find quite interesting amongst my colleagues is that they
| are deeply invested/locked into either the Google ecosystem or
| the Apple ecosystem. I know zero people who have recent
| experience of using both iOS and Android - they're either in one
| camp or the other, and have only superficial knowledge of what
| it's like to use the other. It feels like two parallel universes
| running side by side, just out of reach of each other.
| el-salvador wrote:
| Is it unusual in the U.S. to carry two phones?
|
| I've had a work provided phone and a personal phone for a long
| time and so most of the people I know.
|
| Sometimes I've had a work iPhone and a personal Android, and
| now a work Android and a personal older iPhone.
| sillyinseattle wrote:
| Quite unusual. It's also harder to purchase devices with 2
| (physical) SIM slots (a popular feature in Asia)
| jl6 wrote:
| The two-phone solution seems to be giving way to BYOD. I
| haven't carried a second device in years.
| el-salvador wrote:
| Our telco salespeople must be really happy for selling two
| phones to each of us here.
|
| How does it work in NDA'd work environments? Like when
| company's information can't leave company's devices? Is
| BYOD accepted in those cases? Like with MDM managed phone
| or workspace separation?
| adamomada wrote:
| It is the complete opposite from my view, whereas "most of
| the people" would think carrying two phones to be quite
| ridiculous.
| el-salvador wrote:
| Some people do here, but perhaps I'm not brave enough
|
| I'd be worried about mixing up business and personal chats
| and photo galleries. Like if I need to take a picture with
| my work phone it's usually of something work related.
|
| Or forwarding the wrong meme on a business chat, or
| attaching the wrong file in a family/friend message could
| land me in trouble.
| fma wrote:
| I prefer my Samsung Android phone over an iPhone...but I have
| an iPad. I had an iPhone 2 generations ago.
|
| My wife has an iPhone so I'm fairly in the loop on the
| pros/cons.
|
| I also have some Android tablets laying around and know how
| poor they perform.
|
| I wonder how much the pandemic has influenced these published
| numbers. I don't think they can differentiate someone download
| app from an iPhone vs iPad? All the remote learning has had
| students get tablets and I personally woulda have picked up an
| iPad...they do have the iPad pricing and features tailored with
| schools in mind.
| jeffbee wrote:
| I have a Pixel 3a and an iPhone SE both of which I use on the
| daily: the iPhone on my person and the Pixel installed in my
| car. I can confidently say that Android is written by a
| technologically inferior race of extraterrestrials who hate
| humans and want them to suffer. Sometimes it is so busy
| recompiling JAR files, or whatever the hell it is doing, that
| it fails to ring for incoming calls. It is 50/50 chance whether
| it will hook up to Android Auto by itself, or whether I'll have
| to unplug it and plug it back in. It gobbles so much power at
| idle that even if I switch it off the battery will be dead in a
| week. When I power cycle it, it's a solid 5 minutes before it
| is responsive.
|
| I'm pretty sure what you say is true, but I think it only runs
| in one direction: Android users who are ignorant of iOS.
| 88840-8855 wrote:
| It is like not knowing stuff about Windows 15 years ago. I find
| peculiar as yet alone the curiousity of a tech-savvy person
| (which I assume you are based on yout comments) should drive
| one at least to one of those modern OSes.
| galkk wrote:
| I'm very long time android user (since original galaxy s). Bought
| my first iPhone this year (13 pro max), and have 0 regrets. It
| just works. Great screen, great camera, I still use most of
| Google apps on it: maps, calendar, mail, assistant
|
| I lost my drive to tinker with os/apps long time ago, so the fact
| that everything is quite friction less makes me happy.
|
| On Android I constantly had issues with lastpass, dji asks you to
| download apk to fly drone etc.
| eugenekolo wrote:
| At least in the USA, you have mainly three choices for "$500+
| phones": Pixel, Samsung, and iPhone. The iPhone has been priced
| very competitively in recent years to the point that they are
| better hardware at cheap price points than Samsung. That has
| taken a large chunk of Android sales as people upgrade to iPhones
| instead of paying more for Samsung.
|
| A thought: It seems that as people get richer around the world
| they move away from $200 Androids to what is more perceived as
| luxury: iPhones.
| poisonborz wrote:
| Does "Samsung" mean Tizen or dumbphone (like Xcover 550)?
| Unknown/Other having the same color as Android? Also Windows
| Phone was discontinued 3 years ago. The interpretation of the
| data is rather reprehensible.
| tyingq wrote:
| I think this is mostly related to the higher performance of
| iPhone models where you can finally buy a used one that doesn't
| feel sluggish.
|
| That is, a sub $200 used iPhone is now very usable, where it
| hadn't been in the past.
| JansjoFromIkea wrote:
| Apple's support cycles must play a part? You can get a 6S or SE
| from 2016 that will run mostly fine still at an okay price.
|
| That's without even mentioning the nightmare of trying to weigh
| up dozens of Android phones over multiple years, finding out
| which ones still work reliably several years down the line, etc.
| mmastrac wrote:
| > Android's loss of market share boils down to heightened
| competition within the OS space
|
| Yeah, that duopoly is a lot of competition
| edgyquant wrote:
| Monopoly as a word isn't meant to describe any successful
| company that achieves decent market share. I'm really tired of
| people throwing that phrase around, iOS and Android are
| fiercely competing with each other for market share every year
| so yes there is fierce competition.
| cuteboy19 wrote:
| Android itself doesn't do anything. Samsung Xiaomi Google and
| others compete seperately and just so happen to use Android.
| Though this is becoming less and less true
| HomeGear wrote:
| Razengan wrote:
| xmprt wrote:
| The initial comment was quite snarky too, implying that
| there cannot be any competition in a duopoly. If anything,
| duopolies have some of the strongest competition compared
| to a situation where there's only one winner or one where
| all the 5-10 companies just stop competing because there's
| no way to win.
| MBCook wrote:
| Maybe a lot of people are just really tired of crappy android
| phones and want to try the other side of the fence.
|
| I'm not referring to the nicer phones like the pixel or some of
| the galaxy phones. But the cheaper phones that are often given
| away for free.
|
| I'm not saying that's everything, just a guess. I'm kind of
| surprised the difference is as big as 8%.
| adamomada wrote:
| This is a pretty good point I don't think is seen very often:
| a lot of first-time iPhone users must be completely blown
| away by upgrading from the crappiest Android devices to
| something akin to a flagship on Android -- that they would
| never have considered upgrading to any other way other than
| switching.
| quitit wrote:
| The Android vs iOS graphs don't tell us a lot since Android
| is the accumulation of many devices across various brands,
| while iOS is just Apple's iPhone.
|
| Dividing the share by brand or even by price point reveals
| the true competition in the market, Apple performs well in
| their category and regularly achieves the most sold
| smartphone. When figures were available these also revealed
| that Apple took home the majority of smartphone profits
| (90%+), that is unlikely to have changed significantly (Not
| because iPhone margins were particularly special, but because
| the market is saturated by competitors with razor thin
| margins.)
|
| The Android v iOS graph is heavily skewed by low-cost
| devices. Apple's focus on a meaningful midrange product, long
| OS support and a build quality that is well above the low-
| cost alternatives are likely the reason why Android's share
| has declined by this small amount.
|
| That said Apple won't achieve dominance in the bulk figures
| because these are buttressed by low cost devices, such as
| those used in less wealthy and developing countries. Can a
| large share of Android users even afford an iPhone?
|
| This is all good for google, as users = profit, but it's not
| particularly inviting for smart phone manufacturers who don't
| have enough margin to develop a meaningfully differentiated
| product.
| rmbyrro wrote:
| > _iOS gained 6% between July 2018 and January 2022. From 19.4%
| then, Apple has grown its OS market share to 25.49%_
|
| I wonder why is it so hard for people to differentiate 6% from 6
| _percentage points_
| rob74 wrote:
| Well, at least they're using the correct term "market share" in
| that phrase, whereas in the graph they use "dominance in
| percentage", whatever that may be. All in all, it's not a very
| high quality article...
| pavlov wrote:
| This is why finance professionals tend to use basis points. You
| can't mix up a 6% growth vs. an increase of 600 basis points.
| jillesvangurp wrote:
| I just bought the Pixel 6. That's the flagship device for
| Android. It doesn't really get any better. It's fine as a phone.
| It's got a nice screen. The camera isn't bad. Reasonably priced
| (I payed 555 Euro). And all the other specs people seem to obsess
| about. But other than that, I struggle to see how this thing is
| any better than the cheap, four year old Nokia 7 Plus it
| replaced. I feel slightly ripped off actually. The only thing
| wrong with that device: the usb c connector was getting flaky
| (could not charge unless I held the cable just right) and it was
| no longer getting any security & feature upgrades because Google
| are being idiots. Lets face it: there has been no meaningful
| progress for Android phones in the last half decade. It doesn't
| matter what you buy. You get the same apps & experience with
| slightly different screens, batteries, cameras, etc.
|
| That's the challenge in this space. A four year old cheap smart
| phone actually doesn't look half bad compared to the latest and
| greatest Google has to offer. Whatever Google did since Android
| 9, I don't really care for any of it. It's not really any better
| in any way that matters to me. IMHO the gesture bullshit is
| gimmicky & annoying and the endless Android theme tweaking close
| to irrelevant at this point. It doesn't feel exclusive to me;
| just different in a way that doesn't matter to me at all.
|
| The reason Apple has progressed in terms of market share is that
| they doubled down on what matters. People seem to like IOS as it
| is and they did not mess with that too much. Other than that,
| good hardware improvements, software updates for almost anything
| they sold in the last eight years, and improvements where it
| matters (screen, camera, speed, etc.). You pay a premium for it
| but you get what you expect. And then you use the device until it
| breaks down and you get another one. They offer stability and
| incremental progress for the life time of the device. There's
| nothing that Android offers that IOS needs. It has it all.
|
| With Android you're haggling on a lot of different specs between
| different vendors. And somehow you get a worse deal no matter
| what you choose. You can go Samsung and deal with their
| proprietary crap-ware. You can go generic Chinese & out of favor
| brand and deal with the fact that they've been cut off from the
| Google Play services. Or you can buy a few me too products from
| generic Android OEMs and obsess about how many pixels the screen
| has; how many redundant camera lenses they have, how bad the
| battery is, etc.
|
| I actually like the Pixel 6 as a phone. But excuse me for not
| getting too excited about it because it's not exceptional in any
| way and Google will abandon supporting it in hurry for whatever
| their next shiny new hot thing is in six months.
| pavlov wrote:
| I don't think Apple would actually want to grow their global
| market share beyond 30% or so. It would start eating into the
| brand's premium image, and more importantly, would invite more
| uncomfortable antitrust attention.
|
| They're really at a sweet spot here IMO in the mobile market: not
| too big, not too small (like the Mac used to be in 1995-2005).
| It's better for the company if revenue growth comes from
| services, high-margin computers (like the Mac Studio) and new
| devices rather than selling more phones.
| skc wrote:
| This is a war that Apple has already won even with their lower
| marketshare. I think the only interesting thing left in the
| mobile OS space is the idea of dumb smartphone OS's such as KaiOS
| for people who want to simplify their lives a bit.
|
| KaiOS is a long way from perfectly usable just yet but you know
| that wonderfully relaxed feeling you get when you forget your
| phone and decide against driving back to get it? Perhaps that's
| the impetus for a new kind of challenger to iOS. A phone /OS
| who's best feature is that it actually does less.
| micronova wrote:
| laerus wrote:
| People just don't care about privacy because they "have nothing
| to hide". It's convenience above all else.
| micronova wrote:
| > People just don't care about privacy because they "have
| nothing to hide". It's convenience above all else.
|
| Normality used to be defined by the majority. Not anymore,
| and it just feels hopeless. ... Of course they don't have
| anything to hide: it's all on the table already, for years,
| ready to be exploited by campaign advisors and policy makers.
| The result is this planet imploding we're experiencing
| nowadays and it will only get worse.
| bezospen15 wrote:
| I'd rather go phoneless than use iOS. Terrible terrible OS for
| engineer
| orthoxerox wrote:
| I got my wife a new iPhone right before the war started, and I
| swear, every time the migration process gets worse and worse. I
| installed iTunes, took a full backup of her old iPhone, restored
| it to the new one, and it was still missing her music, her
| movies, her books, despite containing all of that judging by the
| file size. I had to resort to 3rd party software to rip the data
| out of it and shove it into the new iPhone. And even then it
| managed to delete the books when I uploaded the music, forcing me
| to repeat the exercise.
|
| At least with my Android phone I can simply plug it in my PC and
| copy the files I need in either direction.
| Schiendelman wrote:
| If you really used iTunes, it seems like you ignored the
| phone's attempt to transfer data for you and forced through an
| ancient unsupported process. I'm pretty sure iTunes even warned
| you.
| mattkevan wrote:
| The migration process has never been easier.
|
| Just hold the phones near each other, scan the QR code on one
| with the other and wait a bit. Complete clone of the old phone,
| no need to go anywhere near iTunes or even a computer.
| have_faith wrote:
| Just went through this the other day going from an XR -> 13
| Pro. Very smooth compared to what I remembered. It didn't
| copy all of the apps though just the app icons that needed to
| be tapped to initiate a download for each one.
| cloudwizard wrote:
| I can't stand Apple's required software like iTunes. Apple HW is
| great. Just hoping Asahi Linux is ready soon. Until then, Linux
| Chromebook is my dev machine
| MBCook wrote:
| What does that have to do with smart phones?
| filoleg wrote:
| > I can't stand Apple's required software like iTunes.
|
| Required for what? I haven't opened iTunes even once in many
| years.
|
| You don't need it even if you want to do local backups on
| macOS, you can do it all from an easy menu in Finder aka file
| explorer.
| teekert wrote:
| I don't have iTunes, use NextCloud to move pictures of the
| iPhone. But you're right, I really hate it that I can't just
| move pictures off with a cable. It worked for me on Ubuntu but
| has been nothing but pain on Arch, I tried a lot of different
| things. Really annoying. In fact, I'd say it's the one main
| annoying thing for me (that and the fact that the NextCloud
| docker image people refuse to add .heic support and I'm too
| noob to do it myself ;) )
| manmal wrote:
| I only ever connect my iPhone for debugging purposes (can be
| done wirelessly btw), and sometimes I hook it up to transfer
| files faster to VLC, but that will go away once I have Plex up
| and running.
|
| Between streaming services, cloud backup, iCloud Drive (like
| Dropbox), and Airdrop (secure file sending via peer-to-peer
| WIFI) there's absolutely no need to own a Mac or PC to drive an
| iPhone.
|
| I'm also holding out for Asahi though, and hope they get things
| like Proton to run.
| finiteseries wrote:
| iTunes has not been required for years now.
| jl6 wrote:
| How do you get music files into the Music app other than
| through iTunes?
| n8cpdx wrote:
| What's a music file?
| scoopertrooper wrote:
| You do it with Finder these days; iTunes is dead.
|
| https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT210611
| manmal wrote:
| The sync functionality has been moved into the Finder app,
| so it's part of macOS. I'm not sure what's the best way on
| Windows, but Microsoft's Phone Companion seems to take care
| of necessary software installation.
| jl6 wrote:
| I use Linux primarily so my iPhone music sync solution is
| currently iTunes running in a dedicated Windows VM.
| etchalon wrote:
| It's not called iTunes anymore. It's called "Music".
| Seattle3503 wrote:
| I buy directly from Samsung and am very happy with my Android
| experience. All of my friends who bought Android through their
| carrier hated their experience.
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