[HN Gopher] Snapchat's product is booming
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Snapchat's product is booming
        
       Author : kantrowitz
       Score  : 116 points
       Date   : 2022-04-22 14:15 UTC (8 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (bigtechnology.substack.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (bigtechnology.substack.com)
        
       | Fargoan wrote:
       | I'm 34 years old and stopped regularly using Snapchat when I was
       | ?27? Mostly I used it to split bills with my roommates, but the
       | snapcash feature was removed so I downloaded Cash App. I know I
       | haven't used Snapchat since 2017. I remember this because I was
       | visiting Seattle and viewed geotagged stories to figure out what
       | was going on around town. I deleted the app again when I got back
       | home.
        
       | kart23 wrote:
       | I'm in college. I see a lot of people doubting snap's popularity
       | in this thread.
       | 
       | Literally everyone has snapchat and most people use it on a daily
       | basis. I do think they provide the overall best group chat
       | experience out of any app, you can just send text if you want,
       | but also save funny pictures or video that people send. And only
       | the good stuff gets saved, so you're usually not dealing with a
       | bunch of clutter and random irrelevant content in the chat's
       | history. The private stories are cool too, but I personally don't
       | use them.
        
       | thawaya3113 wrote:
       | I don't buy Snapchat's numbers.
       | 
       | Their metrics all suggest an inflated user count.
        
         | rvz wrote:
         | > Their metrics all suggest an inflated user count.
         | 
         | Evidence?
        
         | hbcondo714 wrote:
         | How so? They define a Daily Active User "as a registered
         | Snapchat user who opens the Snapchat application at least once
         | during a defined 24-hour period" in their quarterly report:
         | 
         | Source:
         | https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/0001564408/000156459...
        
           | liuliu wrote:
           | Snapchat has been more aggressive at push notifications (such
           | as @xxx friend posted a new story!) to move more MAUs / WAUs
           | into DAUs category.
           | 
           | These strategies have been employed by other competitors as
           | aggressive as well though. So it is probably still
           | comparable. I would say Snapchat's metrics are more
           | "authentic" a few years ago, but now it is more "comparable".
        
             | thtpol wrote:
             | To be fair over counting users will affect ARPU as well, no
             | free lunch (and we sorta saw that in the numbers this
             | quarter tbf)
        
       | thesuitonym wrote:
       | > Messaging is infamously sticky: once you start messaging in one
       | place it's rare to go elsewhere to reach the same people.
       | 
       | IRC, ICQ/AIM, Y!M, MSN, Skype would all beg to differ.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | cft wrote:
         | Arguably those ones disappeared together with desktop
         | messaging: main use of messaging migrated from desktop to
         | mobile, but they either never developed compelling mobile apps
         | or developed them too late (Skype)
        
       | smm11 wrote:
       | YouTube better change.
        
       | bradleyjg wrote:
       | _Millennials, the first generation to grow up with social media,
       | loved broadcasting their lives. Gen Y was more ambivalent. Gen Z
       | kind of hates it._
       | 
       | Wait, what? I thought Gen Y was the placeholder name until
       | Millennial stuck.
       | 
       | greatest, lost, boomer, gen X, millennial, gen Z
        
         | jaywalk wrote:
         | There's a pretty wide gap between the "older Millennials" and
         | the "younger Millennials" which I would assume is what they
         | were trying to address by using "Gen Y" to refer to the younger
         | ones. Although I've never heard that before.
        
           | gsibble wrote:
           | I've never heard it either but the definition of millennial
           | is like 20 years of births which all had vastly different
           | experiences.
        
             | jaywalk wrote:
             | Yeah, so much changed in that 20 year span that the
             | beginning and end are very, very different.
        
         | downrightmike wrote:
         | You are right
        
       | instagary wrote:
       | Snapchat was novel because of the ephemeral nature of the
       | messages (and introducing stories). However in the late twenty
       | teens they began focusing of face filters and introducing cringe
       | ads & news networks which made it unusable for me.
       | 
       | Good to see they are still thriving though. Compared to Instagram
       | they have maintained to be an app solely to communicate with
       | friends vs. Instagram's philosophy of a feed of edited photos
       | that can cause you to compare yourself to others.
        
         | KSPAtlas wrote:
         | Irc
        
       | metadat wrote:
       | I haven't thought of Snapchat in many many months. Last time I
       | logged in was only sync my bitmoji avatar. Their chat
       | "experience" really sucks, this article is not even remotely
       | plausible.
       | 
       | This is a laughably poor attempt at astroturfed buzz generation.
        
         | KSPAtlas wrote:
         | I was going to use it to chat with some friends but the app is
         | so annoying I decided to leave.
        
       | dpweb wrote:
       | Do they count it as a daily active user, if I stay logged in,
       | don't open the app, and the app sends me a notification or
       | something?
        
       | Zigurd wrote:
       | Social media has low barriers to entry. Several new entrants have
       | grown super-fast and have overtaken incumbents. Facebook was very
       | clever to identify and buy up some of these fast-growing new
       | entrants.
       | 
       | This holds lessons for the people who want free speech in social
       | media. There are at least 10 social media apps/sites that say
       | they practice what Elon Musk says should be the norm: Anything
       | legal is allowable speech on social media.
       | 
       | And yet i do not see anyone pouring in the same levels of capital
       | that Snapchat and some other newer entrants got. Why not? What is
       | preventing first tier investors from backing these platforms? Why
       | have several of them failed outright? What could turn that
       | around?
        
         | holler wrote:
         | Compelling product > advertised speech philosophy.
         | 
         | Are there any serious social networks who overtly advertise as
         | anti-free speech? Making speech the hook when the site looks
         | like a third-rate ripoff of Twitter isn't a winning strategy.
        
         | adra wrote:
         | Nobody's willing to pay for the access to use the product and
         | if you want to be the free speech wing of the free speech blah
         | blah them you're going to get popular backlash from people and
         | most notably potential advertisers dollars. I feel like
         | investors have lived through too many years of bad #metoo
         | publicity to turn a blind eye and advertise on platforms with
         | toxic (to many) content. If you don't charge users and you
         | can't get the high margin ad revenues, who's supporting your
         | unicorn company that just may luck out and dislodge a small
         | segment of the social media landscapes?
        
       | TremendousJudge wrote:
       | Serious question, who actually uses Snapchat? I haven't heard it
       | mentioned anywhere in at least six months.
        
         | jaywalk wrote:
         | It's the only social media I actively use.
        
         | Brystephor wrote:
         | I use it every day as my primary method of talking to non
         | family members. That's been true for at least a year, probably
         | about 3-4 years now.
         | 
         | Texting is not nearly as engaging. So much of communication is
         | visual and tone. Emojis can only go so far
        
         | MattGaiser wrote:
         | I am just a bit older than heavy users of snapchat. My year in
         | university somewhat used it. The year after us were heavy daily
         | users.
        
         | holler wrote:
         | Lots of people, and I think the narrative that they died when
         | instagram copied stories is sort of bogus. I know way more
         | people who use and have used snapchat than who use Twitter. -
         | Millenial
        
         | tootie wrote:
         | I can honestly say I don't even know what Snapchat does. It's
         | like chat? I'm a social media grump, but I can't avoid
         | passively absorbing what they do. Snapchat has not entered my
         | consciousness and/or its value can't be easily summarized.
        
         | multiplegeorges wrote:
         | The answer is in the article. Young people do.
         | 
         | How old are you?
         | 
         | No one I know uses it, but that makes sense to me. I'm
         | internet-old now.
        
           | TremendousJudge wrote:
           | Right, I wasn't implying that I should be in the demographic
           | or anything of the sort. I don't use TikTok either, none of
           | my friends do, but I've heard it mentioned a zillion times
           | (in the media, IRL conversations, etc) in the past year. Same
           | with other big social platforms: reddit, youtube, discord,
           | facebook, instagram, telegram, and so on. Snapchat? nada,
           | I've heard nothing. So it comes as a surprise to me to hear
           | that it's alive and growing, which prompted my question.
        
             | thtpol wrote:
             | I would put Snapchat above discord and telegram for general
             | public awareness, especially in main stream media coverage
        
         | jarboot wrote:
         | I am 25 and from my observations of social media-active people
         | I connect with that were born and are living in the US, it's a
         | split between instagram and snapchat. Many are active on
         | snapchat stories and instagram.
         | 
         | My observation is that that IG is more popular with urban,
         | liberal, artistic (people create and/or sell art), style-
         | oriented, older audience. It feels more professional and
         | public, and it's common to follow accounts like celebs,
         | artists, businesses, or generally people you haven't met in
         | person. Artistic and lifestyle people will use IG chat to
         | communicate and connect. For example a yoga studio or music
         | venue may post events there. It feels like it's taking the role
         | of a more image-oriented facebook. The stories are very popular
         | too.
         | 
         | Snapchat is (in my observation) more popular with
         | midwestern/rural/suburban people, and the network is more
         | friends of friends or maybe people you met at parties. It's
         | much more casual and it's more likely you have met the people
         | you connect with. Trendy urban people I have met have shunned
         | it for a while and think it's childish, but some are coming
         | back. Either way it's the primary way I communicate with
         | certain contacts besides imessage/sms (mainly through the
         | chat). I'll post something to a story and someone will comment
         | on it or vice versa.
         | 
         | Anecdotally snapchat was very popular in high school and early
         | college and then waned, but became more popular again recently
         | for some reason (I'm getting more and more views on my stories
         | than before even though I'm not adding friends that
         | frequently). Also when I talk to foreigners, they see it as a
         | childish thing that was a fad in the 2010s, but people in the
         | US (especially suburban types) are very active on it and have
         | been for a while.
         | 
         | I'm bullish on snapchat and it's my largest "fun"/risk
         | investment in a single company because of the stickiness it has
         | with people my age and younger, specifically in a more
         | midwestern rural/suburban demographic. Also the snapmap feature
         | is phenomenal and will be the next thing other tech companies
         | start imitating.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | searchableguy wrote:
         | 13-24 year olds. Majority of HN users aren't Snapchat users
         | based on polls I've conducted on the past.
        
         | jasonlotito wrote:
         | 42M. I use it. Easy way to chat with people, send quick pics,
         | nothing serious. The ephemeral nature makes it much less of a
         | hassle to communicate with people because that's what
         | communication normally is: ephemeral. My brother and sister-in-
         | law use it, and numerous friends. Easy way to keep up to date
         | on what they are doing without the hassle of FB or IG.
         | Basically, a self-container group of friends that can easily
         | share without hassle.
        
         | username923409 wrote:
         | At least high school- and college-aged people do.
        
         | trellad wrote:
         | Cam girls use it as an upsell, sending dirty pics and sexting.
         | It's great for that sort of flirty business because of the lack
         | of persistence. No receipts.
        
         | zwieback wrote:
         | My whole family (parents in their 50s, kids in 20s), we use it
         | for fun and family group chats. When it was new it became the
         | defacto IM standard in the kids' age group and it just stuck.
         | Save for straight SMS, which pre-paid users don't like, it's
         | the least obnoxious of the IMish tools, I think.
         | 
         | Outside of the US I mostly use WhatsApp, I suspect if that (or
         | Signal) was more widely used in the US Snapchat would be less
         | popular.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | martinmunk wrote:
         | I'm 31, male, SWE, Danish.
         | 
         | I use it a couple of times a day and have done for years.
         | Primarily to keep up with close and loose friends from high
         | school ect. Pictures from friends everyday life that are not
         | necessarily meant to provoke a response still keep you in the
         | loop and not drift apart.
        
         | daniel_reetz wrote:
         | I had my first intern last summer - she's going to college this
         | fall. She used Snapchat throughout the day to communicate with
         | friends. I asked why-- it's non-public, informal, and low-
         | friction in social terms (easier to ask for snap than a phone
         | number). I got the sense that she was continuously lightly
         | dropping in to various group conversations, while
         | simultaneously talking to close friends, often by simply
         | recording reactions on camera.
         | 
         | I've never used Snap so forgive any ignorance on my part.
        
           | qchris wrote:
           | This is pretty close to my own experience. I actively use
           | Snapchat more than any other social platform because in many
           | ways, it's not really a social "platform", in the same way
           | that Instagram or Facebook or Tiktok are platforms. There are
           | some people that use it that way, but largely, Snapchat is a
           | convenient way of ephemeral, low-friction way to include a
           | few people into your life. A picture here, a link to a cool
           | article there, to a few friends at a time in a non-public way
           | (very few people use it to cultivate an online persona in the
           | way the above platforms encourage) that disappears within a
           | day or so unless explicitly saved.
        
         | rvz wrote:
         | It is more like _more humans than bots_ are using Snapchat.
         | Unlike the rest of the other platforms plagued by tons of bots
         | doing nothing but spamming, scamming, etc its seems to have
         | prevented that and optimised their product to be used by actual
         | humans.
         | 
         | It's quite a difference, but isn't surprising to see and may
         | also explain the rise in users, given the unlikelihood of
         | millions of bots ruining and inflating the usage numbers.
         | 
         | But once again as I predicted, it is far from dying, [0] or
         | even going to allow itself to getting acquired. [1]. In fact,
         | they are the ones continuing to acquire more companies.
         | 
         | [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27628706
         | 
         | [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29020758
        
           | vmception wrote:
           | > It is more like more humans than bots are using Snapchat.
           | 
           | ehhhhhh.... there are LOTTSSS of bots on snapchat. especially
           | if you ever add a pretty person's snap from their dating
           | profile.
        
       | mgh2 wrote:
       | This sounds like an advert for Snap investors...
        
       | illwrks wrote:
       | What I've noticed in the past two years... my daughters friends
       | mother had it on her phone, her daughter showed my daughter the
       | app when we were having lunch. They were trying on 'masks' and
       | various filters. The kids get a real kick out of it, and taking
       | pictures of the adults.
       | 
       | My wife installed it on her phone, and likewise when we have met
       | other families the kids have done the same. It's not used for any
       | messaging element, just purely as a digital novelty for the kids
       | to pass 15 - 20 minutes while we wait for food.
       | 
       | One random occasion led to about 6 families with 7-10 year old
       | kids downloading and using the novelty aspects of the app. I
       | expect the same ripple effect has happened with other children in
       | each of their networks.
        
         | mandeepj wrote:
         | I find Snapchat app to very complicated and cluttered. I guess
         | it's just me.
         | 
         | FB has almost cloned Snap's features into Messenger and Insta.
         | So, do you think - Snap's UX is still far better?
        
           | illwrks wrote:
           | I honestly don't care about their UX as no one I know uses
           | it. It's primary use in my "family life" is as a digital
           | camera toy and for that purpose it's UX must not be that bad
           | because my 8yo daughter is able to find the app, take photos
           | with masks and filter she 'tries on' but not send them to
           | anyone.
        
           | Thlom wrote:
           | On Snapchat it's extremely easy to take a quick photo and
           | send to your friends. Open snap, take photo, edit photo (if
           | you want) and select one or many friends or groups. Doing the
           | same in any other messaging app is slower and more
           | complicated. For me this is the killer feature.
        
             | bombcar wrote:
             | Telegram seems as fast to me but I have groups for friends
             | so I don't have to do much selection.
        
           | OkayPhysicist wrote:
           | You have to remember the target audience. When they first
           | launched, their app was extremely unintuitive, to the point
           | that it was very regular for someone to show their friends
           | some feature they had just discovered. But that was part of
           | what made it fun: Snap straddles the space between social
           | media and toy in a pretty aggressive way.
           | 
           | And their primary audience of teenagers to young adults eats
           | that up. Hell, it being baffling to "old people" was half the
           | appeal.
        
         | vyrotek wrote:
         | Agreed. I've seen the app used by so many kids as nothing more
         | than a camera toy. The parents didn't actually use the app.
        
       | nikolay wrote:
       | Seems true as I keep getting a lot of notifications that my
       | friends are joining it.
        
       | tssva wrote:
       | My survey of 1 teenager, my 15 year old daughter, reveals that it
       | is the preferred messaging platform for her friends and others at
       | her school. Due to one of her activities she travels regularly
       | along the east coast and a few times a year to other locations
       | across the US. When she makes friends during the trips the
       | preferred means to stay in touch from both parties is SnapChat.
       | So I tend to believe the numbers being thrown about. She used to
       | make some Tiktok videos and checked it regularly. She hasn't made
       | a video in almost a year and unless something is shared with her
       | never checks the app. This seems to be the trend among most of
       | her friends. When I asked her why it was because everyone's
       | parents are now on Tiktok.
        
       | anonymouse008 wrote:
       | Evan had this right - tracking as the primary value prop for
       | advertising is a loser's game. Marketing is much more than just
       | ads, and Snapchat has rebuffed going the easy route, honored by
       | market participants, to uphold this principle. They will be an
       | enduring company because of this. How 'big' of a company is up
       | for debate, but honestly not worth the bits to transmit - they
       | are one of the few, if only, doing good business in the social
       | space.
        
         | cmckn wrote:
         | I think they're making money, sure; but the promoted content on
         | Snapchat is a total tabloid cesspool of click-bait garbage. I'd
         | rather see ads for the Amazon product I bought last week, tbh.
        
         | libertine wrote:
         | >Evan had this right - tracking as the primary value prop for
         | advertising is a loser's game.
         | 
         | The problem is that nowadays people mix Direct Marketing with
         | Advertising.
         | 
         | Direct Marketing is where there's a need to track. Advertising
         | is about attention, so if Snapchat has the attention of an
         | audience, that alone is extremely valuable for advertising.
        
       | pbuzbee wrote:
       | I wish Snapchat had kept its momentum among my friend groups.
       | 
       | I much prefer social media where you explicitly choose who to
       | send things to. It feels way more personal than the usual model
       | where you post to your whole network on some public feed. I
       | enjoyed taking a picture/video of something interesting, then
       | quickly choosing which friends would find it amusing. It felt
       | like I was saying, "I think that YOU will like this!" rather than
       | "SOMEONE will like this". And if the recipient wanted to reply,
       | that conversation was one-on-one and more personal.
       | 
       | There were other perks too: taking/sending snaps was pretty
       | quick, their ephemeral nature lowered the bar of what you'd send
       | (in a good way), the filters could were fun, and recipients could
       | review snaps at their leisure.
       | 
       | Sadly only one or two of my friends are still active on it.
        
       | ElectronShak wrote:
       | Stories seem so obvious right now but wow, that was some
       | creativity from Evan Spiegel. Snapchat is built on genuine
       | innovativeness.
        
         | coolspot wrote:
         | Was it Evan himself who came up with stories?
        
           | gsibble wrote:
           | Highly doubt it.
        
       | me_me_mu_mu wrote:
       | I don't mean this to be mean, but do people really believe these
       | active user counts at face value?
       | 
       | I personally see these numbers and assume half are bots or
       | controlled marketing accounts to boost viewers or spam comments.
       | Just going off personal experience using these sort of apps.
        
         | ffggvv wrote:
         | the growth is about in line with independent surveys
         | https://www.pewresearch.org/internet/2021/04/07/social-media...
        
         | caleb-allen wrote:
         | I would guess that you could uncover this information in
         | Snapchat's 10K filings.
         | 
         | In fact, I found the answer to your question on the 4th page of
         | their annual filing to shareholders[1]:
         | 
         | > While these metrics are determined based on what we believe
         | to be reasonable estimates of our user base for the applicable
         | period of measurement, there are inherent challenges in
         | measuring how our products are used across large populations
         | globally. For example, there may be individuals who have
         | unauthorized or multiple Snapchat accounts, even though we
         | forbid that in our Terms of Service and implement measures to
         | detect and suppress that behavior. We have not determined the
         | number of such multiple accounts.
         | 
         | It seems to me that Snap is quite open about their active user
         | counts.
         | 
         | [1] https://seekingalpha.com/filing/6183813
        
           | bombcar wrote:
           | All 10Ks include enough weasel words that if you take them at
           | face value they say nothing.
        
           | admiral33 wrote:
           | > For example, there may be individuals who have unauthorized
           | or multiple Snapchat accounts, even though we forbid that in
           | our Terms of Service and implement measures to detect and
           | suppress that behavior.
           | 
           | Weird. If a person is not a bot, you'd expect that when they
           | are making an nth account they are attempting to apply
           | another use case for the service in their life. More time in
           | app.
           | 
           | I'd also expect there are fewer incentives for creating bots
           | on snap versus other platforms. Its a messaging app, people
           | only use it with people they know.
        
             | Bilal_io wrote:
             | Probably the quality of the content in the app goes down
             | dramatically if you allow multiple accounts. But I can see
             | a use case where people need to manage their business
             | profile and their personal one, or a celebrity needing to
             | have an unknown account for close people only. I am sure
             | there are many more.
        
             | jasonlotito wrote:
             | > If a person is not a bot, you'd expect that when they are
             | making an nth account they are attempting to apply another
             | use case for the service in their life
             | 
             | No. In my experience, it's because they lost access to the
             | older account for whatever reason. Accounts are cheap and
             | ephemeral and forgot password flows are horrible.
        
         | liuliu wrote:
         | Snapchat has been more proactive on fighting bot than other
         | competitors. You can easily copy the cookie from instagram.com
         | and write a bot with puppeteer. You cannot just sniff the
         | traffic from Snapchat app and hope to write a bot with that. It
         | has been aggressive at binary obfuscation for request signing,
         | and cracking down the 3rd party mods (such as the Snapchat
         | Phantom mod).
        
         | mardifoufs wrote:
         | Snapchat's userbase is more organic than most other social
         | media platforms. I don't think I've ever seen a bot, and the
         | "social circles" are much more private since it's less
         | optimized towards meeting/finding new people. I'm sure there
         | are still ways to profit from spamming or botting on snap but I
         | can't really think of any. And not only is the social discovery
         | potential pretty limited ( a part from celebrity accounts) but
         | it's also only available on mobile apps (maybe the new
         | snapcamera changed that but that's recent).
         | 
         | Maybe it's just me but in general, I use snap in a way that's
         | pretty different to any other social media. I don't use it a
         | lot anymore though, and it's still hard to explain that
         | "difference" honestly
        
           | pphysch wrote:
           | I don't really use Snapchat right now, but I constantly get
           | spammed with friend invites from random "women" that I assume
           | are fake accounts. Of course, Snapchat doesn't let you refuse
           | obvious spam requests via notification (but they do let you
           | accept them), so you have to open the app to clear the spam.
           | A clear dark pattern and I would take these usage metrics
           | with a huge grain of salt.
        
         | olah_1 wrote:
         | Certainly there are many, many bots. BUT, I have personally
         | noticed a resurgence in snapchat popularity. It did indeed die,
         | but it came back after (I think) people have gotten burnt out
         | on the super public nature of Instagram.
         | 
         | Snapchat is more amenable to having a "persona". If you make an
         | second account on Instagram, Instagram will literally start
         | recommending it to the followers of your main account.
         | 
         | So Snapchat just allows for a use case that Instagram simply
         | does not. Instagram is the new Facebook. They are not friendly
         | to being anonymous or pseudonymous.
        
         | tomlin wrote:
         | Don't get the flowery speak for a platform that is objectively
         | the world's largest distributor of cp.
        
           | dvngnt_ wrote:
           | true, when i was a teen we used sms now they're probably on
           | snap. not sure what the solution is
        
           | WpgRubyDev wrote:
           | source on that? i don't want to search those terms
        
             | OkayPhysicist wrote:
             | It's an ephemeral photo-based private messaging platform
             | popular amongst teenagers. I have zero doubt that it's
             | carrying a ton of underage illicit content, but most of it
             | is probably being made and consumed by teenagers
             | themselves. Still a legal nightmare for Snapchat.
        
       | paxys wrote:
       | Lots of people showing their age in this thread. The discussion
       | is essentially "I and my social group don't use Snapchat
       | therefore their numbers are fake". If you go talk to people under
       | 25 you will see a very different picture. Snapchat and TikTok are
       | dominating the social media landscape.
        
         | TheAceOfHearts wrote:
         | Does TikTok really remain that popular with the younger
         | generation? I know content creators use it, but I'd expect most
         | kids would prefer to keep content private. Is it really that
         | popular for regular kids?
         | 
         | Truthfully, whenever I open Instagram or TikTok it's almost
         | entirely thirst-traps in my timeline. But maybe that's just how
         | the algorithm has been trained for me.
        
       | rattlesnakedave wrote:
       | Snapchat is fun for stupid pics between friends that are meant to
       | be ephemeral, and that's why I like it. It's the last social
       | platform where my friends are creating the majority of their
       | content posted as opposed to re-sharing something.
       | 
       | HOWEVER- their "discover" pane is full of the most repugnant,
       | degenerate, or otherwise braindead bullshit I have ever seen in
       | my life. If I could pay to turn it off permanently they could
       | command a significant sum for me.
        
       | willio58 wrote:
       | As a user of Snapchat since high school (now 25), I'm noticing a
       | resurgence in my friends using the platform. I never left because
       | I never joined Instagram due to my distain for Facebook. Snap is
       | a great app to keep in contact with "real" friends. I only have
       | groups with true friends and only watch my friends' stories.
        
         | hardtke wrote:
         | My teenagers use Snapchat regularly, and Snap Maps seem to be
         | the "killer app" for them. It allows them to see which of their
         | friends are around when they travel or are out and about on the
         | weekends.
        
           | vmception wrote:
           | I guess thats nice because its cross platform. But do they
           | also use iOS' built in Find My app?
        
             | edaemon wrote:
             | I think what those groups like about Snap Maps is that it
             | can show not only where your friends are but what they're
             | doing. Imagine if you were having drinks at a bar and a
             | friend posted a snap of them doing the same just a few
             | blocks away -- I'd reach out to meet up with them.
        
               | vmception wrote:
               | yeah I like that aspect of Snap Maps too but it lacked
               | usefulness when everyone stopped using it no matter how
               | densely populated the area was or where my friends are.
               | I'm glad to know people are using it again and posting
               | relevant snaps.
               | 
               | Protip: for those not looking for their own friends
               | specifically, you can/could use snapmaps without a
               | snapchat account, just in your browser and see the feed
               | of whats happening in the heatmap.
        
           | 12907835202 wrote:
           | Having this on Instagram would be awesome.
           | 
           | Instead of a feed of stories in an order being able to see
           | thumbnails of stories over a map and clicking around the map
           | would be far more engaging for me.
           | 
           | It would also help me alot as a digital nomad/traveller as it
           | would very quickly let me know which friends are in which
           | cities/countries, as opposed to just the same street as
           | others have suggested.
           | 
           | Similarly if you want to know what XXX bar or street is like
           | right now you could see public stories from there.
           | 
           | Just landed in a city? Browse the Instagram map to get an
           | idea which streets are party to visit/avoid or see random
           | pics of food and think fuck let's go there.
           | 
           | I wonder if this is possible via the API?
        
       | guelo wrote:
       | I always cheer for Snapchat just because of the courage it took
       | to turn down Zuckerberg's $3 billion offer in 2013.
       | 
       | If you compare Evan Spiegel to Kevin Systrom (Instagram founder),
       | Spiegel is 6 times richer and he didn't have to kowtow to
       | Zuckerberg for all those years. Hopefully that's a lesson to
       | founders to go for it, build something real and don't sell out.
        
         | paxys wrote:
         | It's not as straightforward a comparison. Instagram is still
         | worth 3-5x more than Snapchat today. It's not obvious that they
         | would have seen the same growth had they stayed independent.
        
       | idoh wrote:
       | Snap - booming product, public since 2017, so where's the profit?
       | What are they waiting for?
        
         | tibyat wrote:
        
       | paul7986 wrote:
       | Their Cameos stickers are fun ...no other chat app I know offers
       | that. They are jib jab like stickers you can send of yourself and
       | your friend and yourself looking dumb lol
       | 
       | Chat is more fun using Snap!
        
       | wepple wrote:
       | I'm not up to speed on the social app market, but isn't TikTok
       | eating their lunch?
        
         | colinmhayes wrote:
         | Snapchat is for your own social graph. TikTok explicitly
         | ignores your network. Snapchat is basically a messaging app
         | with a social network twist.
        
           | wepple wrote:
           | Thanks, makes sense
        
         | jasonlotito wrote:
         | Best way to think about Snap is it's a replacement for normal
         | conversation. Normal conversations are ephemeral. Snap follows
         | that. You take a picture, you show your friends, and that's it.
         | You say something, and that's it. You don't store it somewhere
         | for later. That's it.
         | 
         | And once you realize Snap allows you to carry on with that
         | ephemeral experience even when you aren't near, you realize why
         | it does so well.
        
       | 52358 wrote:
       | I wonder how many people here are aware of Snapchat's thriving
       | underground OnlyFans-like ecosystem. I also wonder how much of
       | that is driving Snap's user metrics.
       | 
       | As far back as 2014, I remember there being a huge ecosystem of
       | "premium" snaps (sometimes known as "prem(ium) girls"), whereby
       | you would pay the account owner a one time or recurring fee for
       | access to a "premium" snapchat account where the owner posts
       | nudes/etc, essentially OnlyFans-like content. Owner would
       | typically accept payment through any number of ways
       | (paypal/cashapp being most common), and "customer" would provide
       | proof of payment by sending screenshot of receipt that the owner
       | then confirms.
       | 
       | The premium account owner would also typically have a free/open
       | account where they would post free content / teasers/etc,
       | essentially marketing/advertising for their premium account. They
       | would sometimes also market their account on Twitter and Reddit
       | and especially Tinder (and one less popular app by the name of
       | Whisper), much like OnlyFans content creators do today.
       | 
       | As far as I know, this preceded the popularity of OnlyFans and
       | remains a popular use case for Snapchat. I don't use Snapchat
       | much myself nowadays, but I used to be a customer of many of
       | these premium snaps years ago. When I do log in once in a while,
       | many of these accounts are still active, though some are also
       | advertising their OnlyFans.
       | 
       | I think Snap officially bans this practice, but by nature these
       | accounts are private and the owner adds users on a one by one
       | basis, so I don't imagine they get reported a whole lot.
       | 
       | The fact that the content is ephemeral surely helps and is
       | probably one of the main reasons the content creators choose Snap
       | as their platform. Snap also tells you when users screenshot your
       | content, which would often result in getting banned from the
       | premium Snap. Unlike OnlyFans, which cannot get in the AppStore
       | and is relegated to being web-only, Snapchat is mobile-only,
       | making it harder for users to download the content, which is
       | another appeal for these "premium" content creators.
        
         | nonameiguess wrote:
         | It's kind of still amusing to me that Snapchat ever moved
         | beyond being a niche platform like that. Heck, I might still
         | have an account, but the only reason I ever did was around 2012
         | or so when I first divorced and started seeing women again,
         | they offered to send nudes, but only via Snapchat. What other
         | purpose could a service that let you send disappearing pictures
         | serve? It was clearly for sending nudes. Watching them become a
         | VC darling and totally rebrand to something for kids was
         | surreal.
         | 
         | I'm kind of sad at your scenario, though. Receiving pictures
         | from someone I actually got to meet and go on dates with was
         | quite a bit more personal and fulfilling than subscribing to a
         | mass semi-public feed from a professional adult performer. Pros
         | always have to ruin everything.
        
         | saos wrote:
         | > I don't use Snapchat much myself nowadays
         | 
         | Yeah It just disspeared out my life. Pretty sure its for
         | youngens now. But, I did see it moving in a weird direction
         | before deleting my account
        
           | jsemrau wrote:
           | I tried to use their filters for Zoom / Teambuildings (yes,
           | It's tacky, I know) but had to realize that their filter
           | discovery just doesn't work on the MacOS (at least)
        
         | shoulderfake wrote:
         | I still don't understand how onlyfans succeeds as a product
         | when there is pornhub etc...someone explain this to me.
        
           | cercatrova wrote:
           | Interesting question. The answer is because people pay to
           | have quasisocial relationships with the OnlyFans providers.
           | On other sites with just videos, you don't get that same
           | feeling.
           | 
           | Basically, people are lonely and will pay to feel seen,
           | heard, or loved.
        
         | MisterBastahrd wrote:
         | I haven't paid attention to Snapchat at all because my
         | assumption was that the OnlyFans type ecosystem made up the
         | majority of the platform's content.
        
           | lotsofpulp wrote:
           | I assume half of Reddit is only fans type content too.
        
         | 52358 wrote:
         | Some other things to mention: the premium content is almost
         | exclusively in the form of stories, which disappear after 24
         | hours of course. Sometimes creators offer extra services at an
         | additional fee or if you buy a lifetime membership or whatnot
         | (duck/face rates, custom photos/videos, phone calls, etc), all
         | of which go through the Snap app. Some even have a menu which
         | they re-post on their stories daily ($20 for a custom 3 minute
         | video, $10 for a 5 minute phone call, etc, etc). Sometimes
         | these are also sold as "packages". Photo/video archives in the
         | form of links to folders on mega.nz and similar websites are
         | other assets commonly sold this way.
        
       | Ancalagon wrote:
       | I really don't buy this. Almost all of my friends, who were
       | prolific snap users in college, have converted away to instagram.
       | Stories are so dead, and despite adding people most of my stories
       | get the same ~15-20 views per 24 hours period.
       | 
       | That's all very anecdotal, and so is my next point: I get a new
       | bot or porn spam account adding me once or twice a week, some of
       | which have large karma counts indicating they've been around for
       | a while.
       | 
       | So yes all of that is anecdotal but I suspect the bots I'm seeing
       | are just the tip of the iceberg of what is actually making up the
       | growing userbase of the app. Most of the young'ns appear to be on
       | tiktok these days anyways.
        
         | vmception wrote:
         | Sex workers drive the story use on Snapchat.
         | 
         | Every dating app is filled with sex workers and bots that act
         | like them, advertising their snapchat username in their
         | profiles 24/7 next to "I'm not on here much use my snap".
         | People check it out whether they really interact with the
         | broader platform or not.
         | 
         | It doesn't really matter what you think your friends do
         | socially, when people are hopping on when bored or on the
         | toilet or before going to bed or when horny or lonely.
        
         | rvz wrote:
         | > Almost all of my friends, who were prolific snap users in
         | college, have converted away to instagram.
         | 
         | Anecdotes are not evidence. Is this what it has come to just to
         | make a _' point'_?
         | 
         | > So yes all of that is anecdotal but I suspect the bots I'm
         | seeing are just the tip of the iceberg of what is actually
         | making up the growing userbase of the app. Most of the young'ns
         | appear to be on tiktok these days anyways.
         | 
         | Some social networks have more bots than others. Especially
         | more bots if the product is available as a web page unlike an
         | app-based product which the barrier is higher. Given the
         | security there, I doubt that there are millions of bots
         | actively posing as users on Snapchat, verses the ones anyone
         | encounters on Twitter, TikTok and Instagram.
         | 
         | The kids these days are also certainly using TikTok, but
         | clearly that has been banned in some countries. Take India for
         | example, which Snapchat seems to be thriving there. [0]
         | 
         | Regardless, I don't like or use either of these products since
         | they are both essentially digital addictive drugs companies
         | manipulating people on what is seen and unseen on their
         | platforms. But I don't see how _' anecdotes'_ from anyone here
         | hold true when the numbers from the earnings say otherwise.
         | [1][2]
         | 
         | [0] https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/tech/technology/snap-
         | hi...
         | 
         | [1] https://www.cnbc.com/2021/05/20/snap-reaches-500-million-
         | mon...
         | 
         | [2] https://ca.movies.yahoo.com/snapchat-growing-faster-
         | facebook...
        
         | paxys wrote:
         | What's your age group? There are very few people under 25-30
         | who use Instagram. Everyone I know younger than that is
         | religiously on Snapchat and TikTok.
        
         | dlivingston wrote:
         | I'm a big fan of Snapchat. I use it as a messaging app to keep
         | up with a handful of close friends (edit: I am a late-20s male,
         | for context).
         | 
         | I have Instagram, TikTok, and the rest, but Snap is truly and
         | unironically my favorite social media platform out there - bar
         | none.
         | 
         | The "disappearing-as-default" messaging, filters, snap map make
         | it a fun, casual messaging app.
         | 
         | The lack of public profiles, of "likes", of "discoverability"
         | makes the app feel genuine. Few people are trying to be
         | "Snapchat influencers."
         | 
         | It's just nice (esp. in comparison to Meta's platforms) and I
         | wish more people felt that way.
        
         | twobitshifter wrote:
         | How many views would you expect for your stories? 15-20 people
         | caring about what you just did seems good to me on the surface
        
         | atestu wrote:
         | I'm in the same situation (minus bot since I delete the app),
         | but I interpret it as: Snapchat is for young people and I'm not
         | longer young. To me it means they're not growing old with their
         | audience, they keep reaching new teenagers every year, which
         | makes them very valuable to advertisers.
        
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