[HN Gopher] OpenBSD 7.1
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OpenBSD 7.1
Author : ptidhomme
Score : 147 points
Date : 2022-04-21 13:23 UTC (9 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.openbsd.org)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.openbsd.org)
| rawoke083600 wrote:
| Congrats !
|
| I know the answer is "just use FreeBSD", but out of interest does
| anyone run OpenBSD with a LAMP stack in any sort of production
| environment with a medium-level(whatever this may mean to you) of
| traffic ?
| nopcode wrote:
| I run a few Rails apps with about 200 weekly users total all on
| OpenBSD. I much prefer it over my Debian experience. But I have
| to say Fly.io and Render look very good.
|
| I believe that jcs runs pushover on OpenBSD.
| icybox wrote:
| The answer is actually "just use OpenBSD". I work for a local
| ISP and reinstalled all the aging OpenSUSE boxes with OpenBSD
| almost 5 years ago. Zero issues and peace of mind, because you
| know your servers can take care of themselves while you're on
| vacation. (I've started with OpenBSD around version 5.0 and
| have witnessed a situation where linux had a bug where whole
| world was running around with hands in the air and the same
| issue has been either fixed or mitigated in OpenBSD years ago)
|
| Core of the network is still Cisco and Nokia boxes, but all the
| support/servery stuff runs on OpenBSD - ELK stack, nextcloud
| servers, db servers, smokeping, nagios, syslog, tacacs, rpki
| validators, mail relay.s - you name it.
|
| Only exception is backups servers, where we use TrueNAS with
| ZFS (FreeBSD-based).
|
| I was testing 10gig SFP+ NICs (intel, broadcom) in linux,
| freebsd and openbsd with iperf3. I was seeing line rate in
| linux and freebsd and somewhere around 3gbps in OpenBSD. So
| while linux and freebsd has top performance, OpenBSD's
| performance with security mitigations enabled by default is
| good enough(tm) in most cases.
|
| YMMV
| rawoke083600 wrote:
| Interesting ! Been toying with the idea to move my
| "medium'ish" site to an OpenBSD stack currently on Ubuntu
| Linux 18 (can you get any more vanilla ?)
|
| For no other reasons than:
|
| 1) I can (i'm the boss, and only employee :/)
|
| 2) OpenBSD, will always have a special place in my heart
| going back 20 years, trying to "share" our dialup modem on my
| 386 !
|
| 3) I also like going on vacation and not worry
|
| 4) That artwork :P
|
| 5) Just love the pure simplicity of it, everything "fits in
| your working mind"
|
| 6) I feel the older I get, the more I move to a graybeard-
| unix-mindset. Although I'm no way near as clever or component
| as the 'myth'.
|
| I like to think the (ok my) "ultimate final destination" is
| me sitting on a mountain top with a netbook coding in a LISP
| in Emacs on OpenBSB.
|
| Of course I might need some eye-candy so I will allow lolcat-
| bash-prompts for that color-req in my life. *The final zen-
| state*
|
| Now if I can only find a "DECENT" VPS host that offers _any
| bsd default install options_ looking at you scaleway !
| icybox wrote:
| This will be _very_ opinionated, but ... when I 'm working
| with linux, I need to google stuff around, because there
| are no [,usable] manpages. Sure, it's easy, _everybody_
| just loves to google their stack traces to find solutions
| ... BSD is boring, it just work. And from my experience,
| OpenBSD was acting like an apprentice, when I was setting
| something up. It handed me the tools or configs at the
| moment I needed them. Everything is there at arms reach. If
| you know what you 're doing, the system is helping you.
| Need config file? - there's one in /etc/examples!
|
| The old saying goes like "Those who don't understand UNIX
| are condemned to reinvent it, poorly." I don't think I need
| to tell you, but do your testing before you switch over
| your production. Hopping off the bandwagon has its
| benefits, but also its costs. OTOH, (ad 2), I think you'd
| know your way around. I've played with BSD4.3 in SIMH
| couple weeks ago and was surprised that I can use it!
|
| ad 3: I've had an argument with security guys forcing
| minimum password length couple months ago. Somehow they
| just couldn't understand that I don't have passwords at all
| and use SSH keys. Also, linux doesn't have pledge and
| unveil or chroot by default, so they just don't understand
| the benefits ...
|
| ad 5: for me, OpenBSD is the only system where I can ps
| auxwww and know what's going on ... Not sure what's going
| on, but the working theory is that most people just don't
| care or understand, so this is not a value for them from
| the start...
|
| ad 6: UNIX graybeards FTW!
| (https://archive.org/details/unix-magic-poster-gary-
| overcare-...)
|
| Most linux VPS could be taken over by writing miniroot.fs
| to the virtual drive & rebooting the drive. Some might need
| to emulate some cloud-init stuff ...
|
| P.S. I've started with linux more than 20y ago. I was
| blessed enough (hey! life provides only gifts ;) ) to
| administer some Solaris 6,7,9 and 10 boxes that has shown
| me "proper" UNIX ... since then, it's painful to experience
| some linux stuff that has been solved already, and just
| works(tm), but NIH ...
| technofiend wrote:
| > I was seeing line rate in linux and freebsd and somewhere
| around 3gbps in OpenBSD.
|
| This is the only reason I don't still run OpenBSD firewalls -
| because the little appliance I use doesn't have the CPU to
| keep a gigabit NIC saturated and I have gigabit internet. Now
| that topton refreshed their offerings with 10th and 11th gen
| 2.5gbe firewalls [1] I plan to try again. Having said that, I
| tried drag racing PFsense, Fedora and OpenBSD in virtual
| machines on a DL360 G9 under vmware and OpenBSD wasn't able
| to keep up there either.
|
| [1] https://www.servethehome.com/inexpensive-4x-2-5gbe-
| fanless-r...
| libx wrote:
| snvzz wrote:
| I keep telling myself that one of these days, they'll migrate the
| cvs repo to git.
| icybox wrote:
| There is official read-only git mirror at
| https://github.com/openbsd/src
|
| CVS still works just fine for the devs ...
| voakbasda wrote:
| CVS might work for the existing devs, but it can be a non-
| starter for onboarding experienced developers. Avoiding the
| upgrade to modern VCS tooling would be a deal-breaker for me,
| despite any other potential upsides. I view it as the tip of
| an iceberg of outstanding technical debt.
| icybox wrote:
| I think you focus on the wrong thing. If your code is good,
| just send git diff to the mailing list and watch it being
| commited. Tools used is not some kind of magic pixie dust
| ...
| omnibrain wrote:
| Nice artwork as usual, but it looks like the song is missing.
|
| Sadly I can't say much about the release because I have no real
| use case for OpenBSD.
| mdb31 wrote:
| Yup, there were some premature release announcements, but it
| seems it's really available now. (Note that OpenBSD releases come
| out twice a year, pretty much like clockwork, and that version
| numbers aren't indicative of the magnitude of the underlying
| changes: 7.0 was just the next release after 6.9).
|
| Headline improvement for this version: it's fully supported on
| Apple Silicon. Not sure there is a huge market for that, but
| still pretty cool!
| traceroute66 wrote:
| > Yup, there were some premature release announcements, but it
| seems it's really available now
|
| Technically you it was always available, you can always follow
| _-current_ or whatever they call it.
|
| Most sensible people don't, however, because it entails going
| back to the old-school way of keeping OpenBSD up to date, i.e.
| you don't get to benefit from _syspatch_ , _fwupdate_ and
| _sysupgrade_. All three utils being (relatively) recent
| inventions that help keep your average sysadmin sane !
| messe wrote:
| Actually you get the advantages of all of those when running
| -current if you follow it by using the binary snapshots. You
| can follow current by upgrading to the latest snapshot via
| 'sysupgrade -s'.
| throw_1999 wrote:
| > Implemented poll(2), select(2), ppoll(2) and pselect(2) on top
| of kqueue. Does anyone have more information on this? OpenBSD
| must be the only one to implement this way?
| asveikau wrote:
| I feel like this doesn't matter much from outside the kernel,
| it's just an implementation detail.
|
| The limitations of those syscalls are inherent to the interface
| and won't be "fixed" this way.
|
| So it's no doubt convenient for the OpenBSD devs to unify the
| implementation, but this is not a user visible change or even
| something user mode programmers should care about.
| brynet wrote:
| Apparently it was inspired by similar work done on DragonFlyBSD
| for select(2), unfortunately I cannot find any details about
| their implementation.
| user3939382 wrote:
| I'll use OpenBSD again if and when there's a long-term branch
| that freezes the pf.conf syntax, let's say for 10 years.
|
| Of course people are free to run their volunteer projects however
| they like, but I'm also free to decide that I'm not going to have
| my firewall rules randomly break if I want to keep my router
| updated. Over the last 15 years or so I've been burned by OpenBSD
| multiple times on this issue.
| icybox wrote:
| All the changes are mentioned in changelog and/or upgrade
| guide. What's the story here?
| brynet wrote:
| Link to official release page: https://www.openbsd.org/71.html
|
| Announcement mail: https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-
| announce&m=165054715122282&w=2
| enriquto wrote:
| Complete upgrading instructions: ssh
| myopenbsdbox # log-in to your machine doas sysupgrade
| # will log you out, go drink some coffee ssh myopenbsdbox
| # log-in to the upgraded machine doas sysmerge # if
| any, solve merge conflicts of your cfg files doas pkg_add
| -u # if any, upgrade local packages doas sysclean
| # print obsolete files that you may want to remove
|
| the last step is optional. You may pipe its output to xargs rm
| -rf if you feel confident.
| johnklos wrote:
| It's good to see their regular update cadence bringing new code
| to the masses without much delay, like OpenSSH 9.0, for example.
|
| I think many people who run other Unix-like OSes don't always
| realize how much of the code they use regularly comes from the
| OpenBSD project, even if we don't often run OpenBSD directly.
|
| Thanks, OpenBSD!
| Gualdrapo wrote:
| In their website they mention OpenSSH is a product of their
| efforts:
|
| > As an example of the effect OpenBSD has, the popular OpenSSH
| software comes from OpenBSD.
|
| But I think they could reformulate it to illustrate that even
| more good stuff has been done there and it is used by many
| icybox wrote:
| Obligatory link to Peter N.M. Hansteen's presentation
| "OpenBSD and You". On slide 6, you'll see which operating
| systems use OpenBSD's code to its benefit.
|
| https://home.nuug.no/~peter/openbsd_and_you/
|
| EDIT:grammar
| tharne wrote:
| > I think many people who run other Unix-like OSes don't always
| realize how much of the code they use regularly comes from the
| OpenBSD project, even if we don't often run OpenBSD directly.
|
| OpenBSD is a huge contributor to the Unix ecosystem. Also,
| don't forget the top-notch documentation. Even when I'm using
| Linux at work, I'll still often pull up the OpenBSD man pages
| because they're so much better.
| sjmulder wrote:
| With mandoc, they've also worked hard on the HTML output. No
| more fixed with fonts, good layout, internal and external
| links, and compact. I wish more documentation was like this!
|
| Examples:
|
| http://man.openbsd.org/kqueue
|
| http://man.openbsd.org/acme-client
| dingleberry wrote:
| i tried freebsd and surprised that pf is already included.
|
| that and zfs (no partition, can use whole disk).
|
| i'm considering using freebsd on both server and laptop from now
| on.
|
| will i miss anything?
| [deleted]
| icybox wrote:
| FreeBSD's PF has been forked long time ago and lives
| independent life now. FreeBSD have implemented SMP
| improvements, but this hasn't been taken back by OpenBSD that
| has moved on since ... there are some incompatibilities.
|
| Both OpenBSD and FreeBSD are boringtech(tm). It just work,
| without all the drama, changing init systems and or system
| tools every couple years. It really depends on your workload,
| but with FreeBSD, you can run linux/windows/whatever in BHYVE
| or virtualbox if you need something specific ...
|
| I've ran FreeBSD servers with ZFS and jails (bastille) before,
| but I usually fall back to OpenBSD (if storage <100G) or
| SmartOS (storage >100G -> ZFS). Really depends on the workload.
| Give it a shot or mention what you need.
| upofadown wrote:
| Last I checked it is a different version of pf than the version
| shipped on OpenBSD.
|
| I think that OpenBSD tends to be better on laptops.
| icybox wrote:
| Allegedly, OpenBSD devs run OpenBSD on their Thinkpads.
| FreeBSD devs use MacOS on their laptop ...
| nix23 wrote:
| Don't watch to much youtube...freebsd dev's have the
| approach: The best tool for the task, hence zfs for saving
| data ;)
| Aeronwen wrote:
| I quit using ZFS when FreeBSD managed to somehow lose the
| entire zpool it was installed on. That was a long time
| ago, so I'd hope it's better now, but I've had no reason
| or inclination to waste my time with it since.
| nix23 wrote:
| >ZFS when FreeBSD managed to somehow lose the entire
| zpool it was installed on
|
| Maybe freebsd...maybe user ;)
| icybox wrote:
| I've lost a 3T collection of HDTV movies back in the day
| (student) because of WD green drive that decided to
| return something else that was written to it in a USB
| box. Took me a while to realize what's going on, but
| seeing cksum errors when this particular drive was a
| member of zraid1, I didn't lose any more data (blocks
| with correct data and checksum were returned from pool)
| and was able to replace it on my schedule and money.
| Since then, I just don't feel like gambling on bitrot.
| Neither on movies, nor on family photos.
| protomyth wrote:
| Anyone got any information on sysclean? It doesn't seem to be
| installed with my 7.1 and there wasn't a manual page for it?
| icybox wrote:
| pkg_add sysclean
| protomyth wrote:
| Any idea why it is a separate package when its in the release
| notes?
| brynet wrote:
| sysclean is not mentioned in the release notes, there is a
| small mention in the upgrade guide which states it's a
| package.
|
| There's some ongoing discussions that imply it probably
| shouldn't even be mentioned there.
|
| https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-misc&m=165056241101774&w=2
| Aaronstotle wrote:
| I need to try OpenBSD on a partition again, I kept running into
| issues where my display would freeze after 15 minutes. I assume
| it was because I was trying to watch videos + coupled with using
| an Nvidia card.
|
| From what I read online, OpenBSD does lack compared to FreeBSD in
| hardware support
| throwawayboise wrote:
| Yeah OpenBSD and Nvidia are not a good combo. Even with Intel
| or AMD, check the docs to be sure your video hardware is
| supported.
| sirmac1k wrote:
| Does anyone know what is the current state of UTF-8 support in
| OpenBSD?
|
| Last time I tired it I had big problems with it in base install.
| Both editors and mandoc were falling short in that regard.
| icybox wrote:
| Text console is ASCII. Xorg speaks UTF-8 fluently. Just set
| LC_CTYPE=cs_CZ.UTF-8 in .xsession or equivalent (locale -a) and
| you're good to go.
| sirmac1k wrote:
| Thanks. Unfortunately that's what I was afraid of. I need it
| mostly in TTY, so still gonna wait for some improvements
| there.
| eixiepia wrote:
| Thanks for the release!
|
| Can we appreciate for a moment how OpenBSD is also free from all
| the woke crap, that has infected the tech world in recent years.
| No "Code of Conduct" bullshit for example.
| jbirer wrote:
| I wonder why OpenBSD does not provide a separate non-free
| firmware included ISO mirror like Debian does.
| brynet wrote:
| OpenBSD includes firmware it can permissively redistribute, for
| example as of 7.1, OpenBSD developers spent many months working
| with Realtek to change the firmware license for rtwn(4),
| urtwn(4) and rsu(4) wireless devices so that it could be
| included in base and on the install media.
|
| https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-cvs&m=163331097625151&w=2
|
| For firmware that cannot be distributed on the install media,
| it is instead packaged separately and made installable through
| fw_update(8), if you have a working Internet connection will be
| fetched automatically from the installer or on first boot.
|
| You can also add firmware to install media yourself, if you
| have an existing OpenBSD install:
|
| https://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq4.html#WifiOnly
| traceroute66 wrote:
| > I wonder why OpenBSD does not provide a separate non-free
| firmware included ISO mirror like Debian does.
|
| Unfortunately powers that be at OpenBSD are pretty hardcore
| about "Open means open".
| mnd999 wrote:
| Ahh yes, Theo. Some of his email chains are even more
| entertaining than the famous LKML ones.
| enriquto wrote:
| "Fortune" is subjective... I find this quite fortunate, to be
| honest!
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(page generated 2022-04-21 23:02 UTC)