[HN Gopher] Good Science Project
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       Good Science Project
        
       Author : how-about-this
       Score  : 37 points
       Date   : 2022-04-19 23:48 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (goodscienceproject.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (goodscienceproject.org)
        
       | btrettel wrote:
       | > There are arguably too many people being trained as graduate
       | students and post-docs compared to the number of academic
       | positions available.
       | 
       | Is there anything actually being done to solve this problem? Note
       | that I'd include stable research positions in government and
       | industry in addition to stable academic positions.
       | 
       | Don't get me wrong. It's nice to see more people talking about
       | this problem, but talking about it alone won't solve it.
        
         | dguest wrote:
         | They seem to be taking issue with the "up or out" mentality of
         | academia, and it's hard to fix academic mentality without
         | talking about it and trying to change people's minds.
         | 
         | I don't know how effective it will be, but it is a problem:
         | Imagine a police department that fires everyone after 8 years
         | total work experience, unless they are promoted to chief. It
         | sounds ridiculous, but we typically hold on to researchers for
         | a 5 year PhD + a 3-5 year postdoc. After that the expectation
         | is that they should run their own group.
        
           | btrettel wrote:
           | > Imagine a police department that fires everyone after 8
           | years total work experience, unless they are promoted to
           | chief. It sounds ridiculous, but we typically hold on to
           | researchers for a 5 year PhD + a 3-5 year postdoc. After that
           | the expectation is that they should run their own group.
           | 
           | I love this analogy.
        
         | fladd wrote:
         | The problem is that those in charge disagree with that. When I
         | brought this up after a recent policy change at my department
         | to not allow hiring own PhDs as postdocs (because they should
         | go to another lab, as this is what your CV is expected to look
         | like), I was told that a Phd programme should not be seen as a
         | path towards an academic research career. In contrast, I was
         | told that it is very important to train as many PhD students as
         | possible, that all don't stay in academia, so they can bring
         | scientific thinking to all areas of society. Unfortunately,
         | starting PhD students, of which 99% do this explicitly to do
         | research, are not aware of this, and neither do PhD programmes
         | offer any specific training for a non-academic career.
        
           | photochemsyn wrote:
           | One solution would be to push more people towards MS degrees,
           | which should be no more than 2-3 years in duration and
           | focused on gaining skills and experience valuable in the
           | private sector.
        
       | temptemptemp111 wrote:
        
       | boredumb wrote:
       | Foremost this is very cool and hope you guys the best.
       | 
       | Reading through the "High-Risk, High-Reward Research" page I do
       | find myself wondering the moral aspects that this brings up.
       | Golden Ticket holders being able to get funding for what ever
       | they want even when other reviewers disagree is great, but what
       | kind of governance takes place over legal grey areas or things
       | that are ahead of current legislation and falls into an ethical
       | dilemma?
        
       | ruaraidh wrote:
       | "high-risk, high-reward" science sounds great, until you suddenly
       | have a replication crisis on your hands. Big, exciting results
       | already attract more attention than good, careful, journeyman
       | science, despite generally being, well, wrong.
        
       | photochemsyn wrote:
       | There's a serious omission in this organizations list of
       | concerns, namely the increasing control of academic research by
       | corporate interests and the resulting attack on traditional
       | academic norms of open sharing of research results. See the 2005
       | text by J. Washburn, "University Inc: The corporate corruption of
       | higher education" (intro):
       | 
       | http://kropfpolisci.com/higher.education.washburn.pdf
       | 
       | > "The problem is not university-industry relationships per se;
       | it is the elimination of any clear boundary lines separating
       | academia from commerce. Today, market forces are dictating what
       | is happening in the world of higher education as never before,
       | causing universities to engage in commercial activities unheard
       | of in academia a mere generation ago. Universities now routinely
       | operate complex patenting and licensing operations to market
       | their faculty's inventions (extracting royalty income and other
       | fees in return). They invest their endowment money in risky
       | start-up firms founded by their professors. They run their own
       | industrial parks, venture-capital funds, and for- profit
       | companies, and they publish newsletters encouraging faculty
       | members to commercialize their research by going into business.
       | Often, when a professor becomes the CEO of a new start- up, there
       | is considerable overlap between the research taking place on
       | campus and at the firm, a situation ripe for confusion and
       | conflicts of interest. The question of who owns academic research
       | has grown increasingly contentious, as the openness and sharing
       | that once characterized university life has given way to a new
       | proprietary culture more akin to the business world."
       | 
       | These problems have only gotten worse in the past 15 years; a
       | nice example is the remdesivir story (a Covid-19 treatment whose
       | discovery was financed by taxpayers yet which ended up under the
       | exclusive control of Gilead Inc.)
       | 
       | https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/journal-of-law-medic...
        
         | codekilla wrote:
         | Is the pitch directly to taxpayers? There have been lawsuits
         | (by faculty even..including one in which the DOE was deposed)
         | to rein in misappropriation of funds etc., but it seems like
         | the agencies themselves don't care about conflicts of interest
         | at these universities (and basically encourage them). Is it a
         | research organization that says: 'Hey...we only do open source
         | patents'?
        
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       (page generated 2022-04-21 23:01 UTC)