[HN Gopher] Discussions: Real human answers in search results
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       Discussions: Real human answers in search results
        
       Author : vmullin
       Score  : 76 points
       Date   : 2022-04-20 16:32 UTC (6 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (brave.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (brave.com)
        
       | photochemsyn wrote:
       | What I want is a search engine which searches the complete
       | content of every paper, including both original research reports
       | and reviews, published in a peer-reviewed journal since 1900. No,
       | not just abstracts.
       | 
       | Of course we can't have that since it's all hidden behind
       | proprietary paywalls, and so much for the promise that the
       | Internet would be the greatest source of information for all and
       | would open up the knowledge base for every human being on the
       | planet.
       | 
       | That's the scientific knowledge base, and it's absolutely
       | ridiculous that people anywhere can't search through it easily in
       | today's world.
        
         | yablak wrote:
         | Like google scholar?
         | 
         | https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C5&q=%22t...
        
       | mmastrac wrote:
       | The content of Reddit discussions on relative merit are terrible.
       | Usually a bunch of groups are repeating long-held misconceptions
       | that may have been true at some point but are no longer true, and
       | get upvoted by people that recognize the same out-of-date facts.
       | 
       | I'm not saying the web-at-large is _much_ better, but curated
       | content from true experts _tends_ to be a lot better (finding
       | those experts is obviously hard). Throwing more algorithmic crap
       | on the results page doesn't make results better. It just adds
       | more noise.
       | 
       | The given example on the blog post points to this page [1] where
       | the top comments/top replies are:
       | 
       | - "I know OLEDs are better, but you should at least show 2
       | pictures from the same angle." "The room lighting is completely
       | different as well. I don't understand the motivation here. Bit of
       | a weird post"
       | 
       | - "You ah ..... You see that location more times than you care to
       | admit ?" "Yeah but now when he sees it, it has the deepest
       | blacks"
       | 
       | - "I absolutely think OLED is way better than LCD, too. Just your
       | comparison is not good. [...]" "I totally agree, it was a spur-
       | of-the-moment comparison as I saw the awful backlight bleed and
       | the shimmering on the image I put on top there [...]"
       | 
       | [1]
       | https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/safq43/the_dif...
        
         | rmbyrro wrote:
         | I have the same experience.
         | 
         | Usually, I find Reddit discussions at least 5 orders of
         | magnitude less valuable than HN ones, for example.
         | 
         | They're not useless, but HN most often contain good advice. It
         | has bad advice too, but it's easier to sort out.
        
         | ceeplusplus wrote:
         | Yep, you should also be careful of people shilling (not even
         | corporate brands doing marketing but regular people who are
         | shareholders in a stock shilling!). For example /r/buildapc
         | famously has a bias towards AMD CPU/GPU because many posters
         | there are $AMD holders. Same goes for Tesla across pretty much
         | all subreddits.
        
       | rmbyrro wrote:
       | I hope Reddit has a good anti-bot system in place.
       | 
       | Brace for SEO spammers, they're coming to your subreddit.
        
         | mianos wrote:
         | > Brace for SEO spammers, they're coming to your subreddit.
         | 
         | Or those million complete waste of time MVP vote whores who
         | just paste the "Reset PRAM" or other irrelevant standard block
         | pasts to every question on the google support groups.
        
       | vorpalhex wrote:
       | As skeptical as I have been about their crypto stuff, Brave has
       | been making genuinely new features for several iterations now.
        
       | MisterBiggs wrote:
       | I find myself attaching "reddit" to the end of search queries
       | more and more so this is a great feature. Even though the
       | discussions aren't always perfect its nice to see opinions that
       | aren't manufactured to maximize clout, SEO, or ad revenue like
       | most of the internet is.
        
       | Imnimo wrote:
       | How concerned should we be that this only works because currently
       | SEO has no incentive to target Reddit or StackOverflow, and if
       | this takes off, those communities will be overrun by SEO spam?
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | Nowado wrote:
         | It is exactly that. I'm not sure what the norms are on linking
         | vs copying own posts here, so for now I'm going with both.
         | 
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30369746
         | 
         | 21 points by Nowado 62 days ago | parent | context | prev |
         | next [-] | on: Reddit can't build a better search engine
         | 
         | Marketer perspective: you can not build a communication tool
         | you find useful that won't end up being used to make money. It
         | will get figured out. I could go into a bit more philosophical
         | angle with reterritorialization done by capital, but I think
         | it's much simpler to consider the following: between politics
         | (where once any division in population is found, it becomes
         | valuable instantly), classical business marketing (where once
         | anyone makes purchasing decision informed by something, it
         | becomes valuable), capital markets (where once anything can be
         | used to predict anything about any company or asset class, it
         | becomes valuable) and more personal scams (where once you
         | figure out someone's niche interest, it becomes valuable) there
         | just isn't anything left. Go ahead, try to find something.
         | 
         | Reddit is being constantly targeted. I still use it, because
         | what else?, but if the method isn't obvious, here's what you
         | do: you are hired by/own small company making niche potato
         | chips dip sold via Amazon. You go to google keywords and check
         | 'potato chips dip', you google all you can find there and some
         | of your ideas, you write down all top10 results and check every
         | now and then (well, your SEO monitoring app does it for you).
         | Whatever you find that allows for user input, you generate that
         | input - accounts are cheap - and maybe do some external SEO
         | (thus beating 99,9% of social media results online).
         | 
         | That's it, it's easy. What Reddit (and any mildly aware SM
         | company) does, is they try to offer marketers access to
         | audience for a price that's lower than cost of what I just
         | described. There will be edge cases, especially on
         | international markets where value of time for various business
         | owners differs vastly, which will lead to sites slowly getting
         | more clogged up with ads, but that's the general gist. If you
         | can imagine using similar method to get in front of your eyes
         | when you're looking for something, then it would just be quite
         | weird if nobody ever did it.
        
         | jrochkind1 wrote:
         | Kind of sideways related to "Goodhart's law" -- "When a measure
         | becomes a target, it ceases to be a good measure."
         | 
         | Which kind of dooms all web search now that one thinks about
         | it.
        
         | rel2thr wrote:
         | how would that work? the point of the SEO spam is to fill up a
         | site with 'content' and then sell ads or affiliate links to
         | make money on that site
         | 
         | You can't really make money by commenting on Reddit, they are
         | very agressive about affiliate links and banning
        
           | Imnimo wrote:
           | Yeah, I'm not sure it would work the same as current SEO
           | spam, but I just feel like some portion of this idea is
           | predicated on mis-aligning incentives. Right now, SEO has no
           | incentive to go after Reddit comments, so Reddit comments are
           | (apparently) higher quality than raw search results. But once
           | search engines start directing people to Reddit comments, the
           | SEO's incentives shift, and it feels like their behavior
           | would change accordingly (although I admit I can't articulate
           | a clear vision of what that new behavior would be), causing
           | the reliability of Reddit comments to plummet.
           | 
           | Maybe it's true that Reddit's moderation is sufficient to
           | prevent this from happening, but I feel like I see a decent
           | amount of SEO-adjacent subreddits already, for things like
           | new crypto pump-and-dumps. Before Reddit removed nsfw subs
           | from r/all, you'd sometimes see a bunch of spam links for
           | OnlyFans sites.
           | 
           | I could imagine a situation where Brave has to try to
           | distinguish good subreddits from bad subreddits and it
           | becomes just as challenging as distinguishing good websites
           | from bad websites.
        
             | kovek wrote:
             | It looks like these days, NLP models are able to "seem"
             | human. Start generating many reddit accounts, act like
             | humans, gain karma. When an important discussion appears,
             | use the army of bots to debate that product A is better
             | than product B
             | 
             | EDIT: If previously the race was to make a business look
             | legitimate (page rank), then now it is about making users
             | look legitimate (human rank)
        
       | altdataseller wrote:
       | Forums hve been dying for a decade so I'm not sure what other
       | discussion sources they can add, aside from maybe Quora and maybe
       | Twitter.
        
         | rmbyrro wrote:
         | HN?
         | 
         | I'm sure there are many 'HN-like' forums for many other topics.
        
       | rel2thr wrote:
       | ooh this is really good, granted I'm biased because I am already
       | a Brave user
       | 
       | Also its not just reddit they are integrated with, if I search
       | 'best catfishing austin' I see they've pulled our local fishing
       | discussion board thats like an old school php forum and a great
       | resource.
       | 
       | That forum is nowhere on the front page of google for this search
       | , instead there are lots of made for SEO 'magazines' there
        
         | makeworld wrote:
         | Wow I'm impressed to see smaller forums like that show up,
         | nice.
        
       | vimy wrote:
       | Google used to have this. It showed search results from all kinds
       | of different forums. Remember vbulletin and phpbb? It was a
       | really useful feature and I don't know why Google removed it.
       | 
       | I guess the equivalent search function in 2022 would search
       | reddit, fb groups and discord.
        
         | denimnerd42 wrote:
         | I don't remember using that feature but just like I add reddit
         | today, I used to add vbulletin.
        
       | est wrote:
       | I think search should be split into two categories, one is
       | seeking advice from other humans, another is pinpoint exact doc
       | retrieval without the fuzzing or auto-correction bullshit
        
       | nostromo wrote:
       | Brave should work with Facebook to unlock a massive amount of
       | this content.
       | 
       | Facebook will not work with Google for competitive reasons, and
       | for similar reasons, it would make sense for them to build up a
       | search competitor like Brave.
       | 
       | My own personal experience is that Facebook Groups have some of
       | the best content on the internet for a number of hobbies. For
       | example, if you want to know how to grow tea, or create a new
       | workout targeting triceps, or build a shed in your backyard --
       | great answers for these types of questions are hidden away from
       | search in Facebook Groups.
        
         | Beaver117 wrote:
         | I agree. This is an unpopular opinion but Facebook is gating a
         | significant part of the internet from search engines. Hopefully
         | now that their growth is slowing they might have to unblock it.
        
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       (page generated 2022-04-20 23:01 UTC)