[HN Gopher] Show HN: I built a website to find nearby cafes to w...
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Show HN: I built a website to find nearby cafes to work remotely
from
Author : frizkyK
Score : 202 points
Date : 2022-04-20 14:10 UTC (8 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (workmode.co)
(TXT) w3m dump (workmode.co)
| batesy wrote:
| Oh man. I love how clean this UI is. I'm stealing some ideas for
| sure.
|
| Can you point me toward any inspiration you had in designing?
| Other sites, approaches, etc.? I know nothing about UI design and
| it always stops me from getting my ideas created.
| frizkyK wrote:
| Thanks :) I got a lot of inspiration from the Twitter UI/UX
| actually haha
| mceoin wrote:
| Hey frizkyK - if you'd like improve the site for SEO I'd be
| happy to jump on a call and give you some pointers. There's a
| lot of good stuff here already.
|
| (Free, of course, I just think this is a cool idea!)
| mgarfias wrote:
| Might want to work on it: salem oregon gives me a map for salem,
| MA. And Albany, OR, gives me Albany, NY.
| rafiki6 wrote:
| not a bad idea, try to add a feature to allow for some real time
| user generated data like availability of seats, loudness etc.
| puttycat wrote:
| Great idea! But location-specific search doesn't seem to work: I
| searched for `Paris', selected `Paris, France' from the list, but
| nothing happened.
| toyg wrote:
| It's very slow. You should see a very thin progress bar at the
| top of the page.
| frizkyK wrote:
| The website was down/slow an hour ago. Should be fixed now!
| Sorry for that.
| noobermin wrote:
| This sounds like workfrom
| frizkyK wrote:
| They're awesome!
| toyg wrote:
| Nice idea. Obviously the issue is bootstrapping the database -
| for example Manchester, England, has plenty of suitable cafes but
| none appear.
| alttab wrote:
| This would be a cool plugin for Google Maps for essentially any
| public Wifi, wouldn't want to limit it to cafes.
| leros wrote:
| This is pretty cool. Unfortunately it's not valuable yet without
| other people populating it with data. Is there any way you can
| automatically get a first batch of data into it? Maybe scrape
| coffee shops from Google Maps and add them as not verified or
| something like that.
| frizkyK wrote:
| Yes, the backend fetched places from Google whenever there are
| none listed on Workmode. Had to turn it off because Hackernews
| slowed down the system OOPS
| meragrin_ wrote:
| No, you built a website to crowdsource cafe data. I have tried
| every major city within four hours of me. Zero data.
| frizkyK wrote:
| :(
|
| The backend should normally fetch data from APIs if no results
| can be found. Temporarily disabled due to HN's traffic slowing
| down the website a lot.
|
| Sorry for that.
| danans wrote:
| Back in the the dotcom days, "Internet Cafes" were special places
| in SF, where people would hack, surf, eat not-so-great pastries
| and equally dodgy coffee.
|
| Today, as far as I can tell, there is only one cafe left in SF
| that calls itself an "Internet Cafe":
| http://orderquetzalinternetcafe.com
|
| I'm not sure if it's a vestige of the past or some kind of retro
| themed branding, but it's interesting nonetheless.
|
| Perhaps these are still more common in other countries where home
| and mobile internet isn't as widespread or reliable?
| markhalonen wrote:
| I've found libraries to be superior to cafes for working -- dead
| quiet. Funded by the taxpayer, so zero financial worries, just a
| public space. Free WiFi, Printer, etc. Nice chairs too
| frizkyK wrote:
| Yes, I agree! You can also submit and check into libraries on
| Workmode.co!
| bluedino wrote:
| My library has fiber internet...but it only allows browsing. No
| ssh, no git, no vpn...
| puttycat wrote:
| I use a VPN service which has endpoints that accept
| connections on TCP 80/443, and UDP 53, one of these usually
| works to bypass these limitations.
| bogwog wrote:
| Just use a tunnel through one of the open ports. If you don't
| have a server handy, the cheapest VM on any hosting company
| would cost practically nothing.
| huydotnet wrote:
| Yes, libraries have been one of my best choices for a year,
| instead of an hour driving to the office, I changed my routine
| to 10 min, grab a coffee, and head to the library. The only
| downside is you can't make a phone call in a library, sometimes
| I had to run to the parking lot (which also has wifi covered)
| to take Zoom calls :D
| aagha wrote:
| I love the idea!
|
| A couple of thoughts:
|
| 1. I'll never use social login
|
| 2. When you're on a city, it's not clear how to add a place (do
| you have to be logged in?)
| frizkyK wrote:
| Thank you!
|
| You're right, I'll add a username password login method soon
|
| No you don't have to be logged in. You can check into a place
| by clicking the button in the bottom right corner. This starts
| a speed test and review form. The results will be shared with
| other people.
|
| However, you can add places without checking in when you are
| logged in.
| haolez wrote:
| Doesn't show anything in Sao Paulo, Brazil :(
| sgt wrote:
| Just set up with your laptop in a local park under the shade of
| a tree. Ask the nearby hobos to bring you coffee.
| tmoravec wrote:
| Bug report: I can find cafes in my city when I search, but
| "Places near you" still give me places that are are 800km away.
| Even when I sort by distance.
| mattjaynes wrote:
| Honest question: How do cafe owners make the best of workers
| using their cafe as a work place?
|
| I've heard it referred to as the "laptop hobo" problem: customers
| that come and buy a small coffee and take up a table for 4+
| hours.
|
| How have you seen cafe owners handle this well so that they
| sustain the business and avoid the freeloader problem?
|
| Sometimes I see "No Laptops" signs in cafes, but I'm sure there
| are better approaches.
| debesyla wrote:
| My local caffee that I often visit with a laptop usually just
| plainly asks to leave if you are at the table for more than 1
| hour without ordering anything :-D I have no problem with that
| and it doesn't seem like there is a lack of laptop-users and
| study-groups in the caffee, I guess other people are
| understanding too :-D
| mikebowman wrote:
| Coffee shop I used to work at made the conscious choice not to
| have any customer-accessible power outlets, so people were
| limited by their laptop batteries. I was told when they built
| the place, they debated between offering free wifi, or having
| plugs in the cafe. They ended up offering wifi, but no plugs.
| Seemed to work pretty well, I don't remember there being a huge
| crowd of people staying long. Although it was also a small shop
| with fairly limited seating.
|
| Although, that plan is faulty now, given that I could _easily_
| get 6-8 hours of work out of my Macbook, thanks to the M1
| chips.
| treesknees wrote:
| It may depend on the coffee shop. There is a local cafe near
| me that gets customers, but I've never really seen it full.
| I'm sure they would love to have a crowd of people hanging
| out buying drinks, but also making it appear more popular and
| a nice place to hang out. I've been to cafes before that were
| silent and just awkward to be in because it was just me, my
| friend, and the barista.
|
| > Although, that plan is faulty now, given that I could
| easily get 6-8 hours of work out of my Macbook, thanks to the
| M1 chips.
|
| Heh, I was going to say, the other day I was able to use my
| M1 Pro laptop for nearly 8 hours and it still had around 30%
| battery remaining.
| rrrrrrrrrrrryan wrote:
| The people who try to order a single black coffee and plop
| down for 8 hours (the aforementioned "laptop hobos") are
| almost assuredly going to be using an older laptop with a
| beat up battery.
|
| People who can afford a latest gen MacBook with great battery
| life are also the people who can afford fancier drinks every
| couple hours.
| rglover wrote:
| Really well done, especially the UI. Definitely going to put this
| to use.
| frizkyK wrote:
| Thanks man!
| padolsey wrote:
| This is cool. Reminds me.. I have always liked the idea of
| opening a cafe (who hasn't !?) but I'd struggle with the modern
| behaviour of peeps sitting for hours taking up a plug + wifi in
| exchange for ~PS$4. Hugely uneconomical for independents. Good-
| faith customers aware of the economic burden of their behaviour
| are a VERY rare breed.. So I quite like (/ethically hate) the
| idea of creating scarcities in order to influence behaviour away
| from this norm. E.g. limited internet consumption, no wall
| sockets, pay-per-minute, etc. Thoughts?
| aylmao wrote:
| I've always liked the idea of opening a cafe too. My thoughts
| on the matter are related to this; I think the biggest stressor
| for me would be paying rent so if I ever do I'd like to own the
| location.
|
| I guess that's hard in the USA where commercial and residential
| spaces are so strictly kept separate and far away from each
| other. Where I'm from it's not rare for a business to be in a
| place that used to be (or still is) someone's home. This
| includes one of my favorite cafes (they make fantastic food)
| which seems to be the owner's home lawn and first floor.
|
| I don't know the exact economics of this, but I can imagine not
| paying rent means this sort of customer stops being an
| existential threat and just becomes a nuisance if you want to
| maximize profits.
|
| EDIT: do note I'm sharing this from the perspective of someone
| who would set up a cafe "for fun" and to "keep busy" when
| retired or something, not as someone who would want to
| necessarily set up a while operation with employees or live off
| of this cafe.
| bhc wrote:
| There is a cafe chain in Russia that charges by the minute but
| most drinks are free. They tried to expand to the U.K. in the
| mid-2010s, but their test cafes failed, and they pulled out
| after a few years.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ziferblat
| jordanrobinson wrote:
| The one in Manchester is still here, just under a different
| name: https://oppidan-social.com/
|
| It's quite reasonably priced actually, and a bit more co-
| working focused than your average coffee shop.
| powersnail wrote:
| I've asked some cafe owners this question, and they just
| answered, nah, stay as long as you want; most customers never
| sit down anyway.
| ascar wrote:
| Isn't it fair for restaurants to ask you to clear the table if
| you haven't ordered anything for a while and they need the
| space for new customers? Why shouldn't cafes do they same?
| bentcorner wrote:
| > _they need the space for new customers?_
|
| I think this is an important point. I occasionally work in a
| Panera near me during the weekday (I usually order a soup or
| sandwich) and I don't feel bad about taking up a seat for an
| hour or two since the place is practically empty, and would
| be a little irked if someone asked me to order something at
| that point.
|
| I _would_ feel bad and wouldn 't mind at all with leaving or
| ordering something more frequently if I wanted to do the same
| thing on a Sunday afternoon since the place is often very
| busy.
|
| Some signage similar in tone to what I see with metro buses
| and wheelchair seats seem appropriate (roughly worded as
| "it's perfectly fine to sit here, but if you see someone who
| needs this spot, you should give it up").
| paxys wrote:
| The vast majority of a coffee shop's business happens during
| the morning rush. If you can't be profitable just from that,
| the small trickle of customers for the rest of the day isn't
| going to make a difference to your overall finances, whether
| they are staying at the table for 1 hour or 4. This is why most
| coffee shops don't really care about this problem.
| vmception wrote:
| 4? Where! I'm fine that independent cafes charge like $12-$14
| for anything now in places I go
|
| Price out other people doing less lucrative things that would
| be in the way. Bloggers, starry eyed dropshippers, enlightened
| failed dropshippers Writing books on dropshipping, people
| trying to start an online jewelry store. Its too bad this can
| include coffee drinkers as well.
|
| My M1 seems like it has infinite battery, I'll tether if I have
| to
| mhitza wrote:
| I can't find the one research study I wanted to link to now,
| but with a search on Google Scholar you'll find papers on this
| topic.
|
| The one I wanted to link to raised up the same concerns from
| coffee shop owners, and those that embraced a coffee
| shop/coworking space model, had their plugs + comfy chairs in
| the back where they could also offer a less noisy environment
| (without an actual separating wall or anything like that). If I
| recall correctly they also had one-day type of passes that
| included a couple of drinks/snacks.
|
| That specific paper was about this model during the pandemic
| period, a followup study would be interesting now once
| everything is opened/opening up.
|
| The inverse of this is that you want to have "stiff" chairs if
| you don't want people to linger for too long when they get a
| coffee.
| jrib wrote:
| If there are empty seats, I don't feel guilty at all.
|
| I'll usually get up multiple times to order something. And the
| atmosphere of feeling welcomed makes me come back every week.
| dfxm12 wrote:
| _peeps sitting for hours taking up a plug + wifi in exchange
| for ~PS$4. Hugely uneconomical for independents._
|
| It's only uneconomical if enough potential customers leave
| because they can't sit down or I guess if they use a ton of
| power. Business Internet is not usage based, right? and you're
| buying that anyway...
|
| One place near me instituted a "co working packages" which you
| were expected to pay a certain fee and that got you drinks,
| maybe a pastry and let you sit down for some amount of time.
|
| I would go in there for a pastry from time to time and the
| place sometimes had one or two people on laptops in there, and
| had plenty of seats both before and after having this co-
| working policy. It's not a surprise, there are tons of cafes in
| walking distance and this was the only one that cared about
| charging people to sit there. They were all pretty similarly
| not at capacity regardless of "scarcities".
|
| Then there's the cost of enforcement - what happens if someone
| causes a scene and doesn't want to leave? You have to pay staff
| for that that you might not have to otherwise. Same with
| software tracking minutes of wifi used.
| PietKachelhout wrote:
| This [0] cafe in Berlin charges you by the hour. And the first
| drink is included. Worked really well for me when I was in
| Berlin. No subscription needed.
|
| [0] https://kleinmein.gr/en/coworking-space/
| wintermutestwin wrote:
| This is brilliant! I wonder how they police it? Is it simply
| a limited time access to the internet?
|
| Important to note that the second feature they list is:
| "comfy seats." It seems that many coffee shops try to fight
| the over use problem with uncomfortable seating.
| netsharc wrote:
| In one I've been you can pick a totem (they're all in form
| of old pocket watches), and they note what time this totem
| got "checked out" of the reception, and what time it
| returns, and charge you for the minutes.
| PietKachelhout wrote:
| They don't police it. It is an honesty system. I think
| limiting internet access is a pointless method because it
| is so easy to tether to your phone. And you don't have to
| work online to work there, you can also draw or read.
| nkantar wrote:
| This looks fantastic. Working remotely since the start of the
| pandemic, these days I'd love a sustainable option like that
| for 3 hours at a time once or twice per week.
| cush wrote:
| One approach is to incentivize customers toward doing what you
| want
| LeanderK wrote:
| charge for the wifi after 1h?
| mrfusion wrote:
| Could you make each purchase include an hour of wifi? It
| wouldn't be too hard to set up and I don't think people would
| mind.
|
| Or after an hour keep providing wifi but put up a guilt screen
| explaining that you have costs etc.
| bombcar wrote:
| I get annoyed enough having to find the wifi password, having
| to do a monkey dance every hour would be more annoying still.
|
| I think the reality of the situation is that it's WAY less of
| a problem than people make it out to be; most every coffee
| shop I've ever been in has been mostly empty.
| emsixteen wrote:
| Just don't have wifi.
| iso1631 wrote:
| Tether off your phone. I rarely use public wifi, too much
| hassle.
|
| Don't have power though and I won't be around for long.
| Aeolun wrote:
| Yeah, have enough traffic on my phone that connecting to
| wifi that has hundreds of other people connected to it is
| generally a bad idea.
|
| If my network slows to a crawl, it's always because I've
| accidentally connected to some public wifi network.
| ghaff wrote:
| Seems like less of a problem these days. Most laptops will
| give you hours of use without charging. M1s and Chromebooks
| basically give you an entire day.
|
| And a fair number of people just work on their phones for a
| lot of purposes.
| ghaff wrote:
| I suspect that would decrease your potential market
| significantly.
| gernb wrote:
| SF Used to (still does?) have the Workshop Cafe that charged by
| the hour. It was usually packed! I think they shutdown during
| COVID and have not re-opened (yet?)
|
| https://www.workshopcafe.com/
| andi999 wrote:
| Dont forget, nobody enters an empty cafe, so a few ppl. with
| laptops signaling the place is ok and open during opening hours
| might even be beneficial.
| mtalantikite wrote:
| There's a coffee chain here in Brooklyn [1] that has been
| spreading very quickly who has targeted opening in small
| spaces, or as short term pop-ups inside other spaces, without
| much (or any) seating. This probably limits those behaviors
| you're talking about. They've raised close to $70 million for
| some reason [2][3].
|
| There's a couple a few blocks from me but I've never tried
| them, as I just make coffee with an aeropress at home. When I
| was younger I'd hang out at coffee shops and pretend to be
| getting work done, but not so much as an adult.
|
| [1] https://www.blankstreet.com/
|
| [2] https://www.forbes.com/sites/douglasyu/2021/10/13/blank-
| stre...
|
| [3] https://www.crunchbase.com/organization/blank-street
| jimkleiber wrote:
| Haha, I thought maybe turn the whole cafe into a faraday cage
| (don't know if that is possible) so that no phones or internet
| work.
| bottled_poe wrote:
| Interesting idea, but probably illegal in most places
| unfortunately.
| ascar wrote:
| What kind of law would prohibit you to block out cell
| signal in your own building?
| tomfanning wrote:
| An entirely sensible one which prohibits you from
| preventing an emergency call being made in case of fire,
| injury, crime etc.
| krageon wrote:
| > which prohibits you from preventing an emergency call
| being made
|
| The solution to this is simple: A land line behind the
| counter.
| xeromal wrote:
| Not necessarily. Loads of buildings are faraday cages by
| accident. I know my old school gym completely blocked cell
| signal due to how it was built
| bombcar wrote:
| Many big-box stores effectively block most if not all
| cell signal; you might not notice because Home Depot
| provides free wifi.
| xeromal wrote:
| I assume it's unintentional though right?
| bombcar wrote:
| I suspect so, but I wouldn't put it past Costco to
| intentionally block most of price checking say ...
|
| (Costco being the only one I've been in that didn't
| provide store-wide free wifi.)
| midnitewarrior wrote:
| Active signal blocking / jamming with electrical devices
| are illegal in the US, but passive devices like signal-
| blocking wallpaper and windows are entirely legal.
| wildmanx wrote:
| Not sure this is a problem.
|
| I work a lot from cafes and being the lazy guy I am, I've a
| selection of 3 places that I go to regularly. The times I work
| are not their peak hours, so I'm not taking a seat from
| anybody, but I'm there _a lot_. Like, 3-4 days a week. I drink
| coffee, buy some cake, occasionally some wrap for lunch .. by
| now I 've dumped 4-figures on each of my regular places. If I
| walk by places that I don't frequent regularly -- they also
| have empty seats, but they don't have those dollars in their
| pockets that I left at their competition. Why do I not go
| there? They are not as comfy/cozy. Less comfy chairs,
| unpleasant lighting, no good coffee, no good cake. Some of
| those certainly on purpose to repel customers like me. They
| certainly succeeded at that, but obviously didn't get my money
| in return either. Winning me as a regular customer is a big win
| (that's what I tell myself, at least).
| aqme28 wrote:
| Charge enough for wifi or a seat that it's not a problem for
| you.
| closeparen wrote:
| There used to be a cafe like this near me in SF.
| Unfortunately the zoning board ruled that it was more like an
| office than a cafe, meaning not permitted in a retail space.
|
| Don't do this unless you want to get shut down.
|
| This isn't just "the fun police" either. Pre pandemic SF was
| very sensitive about tech workers/offices crowding out other
| elements of the city. Work-friendly cafes would be immensely
| popular, meaning they would take up a lot of retail that
| could otherwise have more "character." Now with so much
| commercial and retail vacancy it's less of a zero sum game.
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21972491
| frizkyK wrote:
| I would love the idea of buying something every hour or so. In
| return get a code that you can use to extend the WiFi
| availability. Or just straight-up pay via your laptop for X
| amount of WiFi hours which allows you to sit in the coffee
| shop.
| [deleted]
| iso1631 wrote:
| That's crazy. I sat in a mostly empty cafe for about 45 minutes
| last week waiting for a train, had a coffee and croissant and
| had I been there much longer I'd be orderign something else
|
| On the other hand in the old days you used to pay $x for 30
| minutes of time on a computer. I don't see a problem with 30
| minutes free with a coffee, then charging extra for time.
| edouard-harris wrote:
| This is going to depend a lot on location. Coffee chains are
| able to support this sort of behavior because the many
| customers that drop $4 in one minute on their morning commute,
| are subsidizing the few customers that pay $4 for six hours of
| seating and wifi.
|
| Assuming you open your cafe on a viable commuter path, you can
| take advantage of this subsidy and your economics can work out.
| You can improve your economics even further with the tactics a
| lot of cafes already to nudge behavior at the margin, some of
| which you've already noticed (e.g., less-than-stellar wifi,
| thermostat at slightly cold temperature, limited actual seating
| space, only 1-2 customer-accessible wall sockets, etc.).
|
| On the question of charging-by-the-minute: the marginal profit
| you can earn on coffee is higher than marginal profit you can
| earn on real estate. That's why Starbucks (which sells coffee
| and gives away real estate) is a better business than WeWork
| (which sells real estate and gives away coffee). Therefore
| instead of charging by the minute, you might consider raising
| your coffee prices and/or controlling the average amount of
| real estate you're giving away per unit of coffee sold.
| clairity wrote:
| most folks here are overthinking/armchairing the problem.
| coffee shop owners have their economics figured out or they
| wouldn't stay in business. cafes (like the dozens near me)
| are perfectly capable of sustaining their business with a
| blend of folks grabbing coffee to go and others sitting for
| hours.
|
| you don't need to institute limits, subscriptions, nudges, or
| any other customer-hostile action. just price well, and
| provide value beyond your costs. one pro-customer option is
| providing food (beyond pastries) for the lingerers, which
| adds some marginal cost but adds significant marginal
| revenue.
| bko wrote:
| I think you're armchairing the problem by stating coffee
| shops exist therefore there is no problem. Many coffee
| shops do impose user hostile actions like loud music, small
| uncomfortable seating, etc. The others are big chains that
| have efficiencies (e.g. lower prices, more efficient
| workforce, better analytics) that are not available to
| smaller shops.
|
| In most competitive markets you cannot compete (i.e. not
| lose money) when you have costs that a competitor does not
| have the bear. For instance, if 20% of your customers are
| money losers, a competitor can cut those customers out and
| make a higher return. Everything gets priced in. So that
| means that person can charge X% less for coffee, or pay X%
| more for real estate, or have better coffee or better
| service etc.
|
| Ignoring the trade off doesn't make it go away
| clairity wrote:
| as an avid cafe-goer, i've looked into the economics of
| cafes and talk regularly with the coffee shop owners
| around me. competition is almost never a concern for most
| small/independent cafes. starbucks doesn't matter
| competitively because their prices aren't appreciably
| lower and they cater to a different segment than
| independent cafe owners.
|
| the biggest problem is almost always reaching their
| target segment--like the people already sitting there
| with laptops--to drive enough transaction volume to be
| sustainable, which is squarely a marketing problem. rent
| and labor costs (operations) are usually the next biggest
| problems. competition ain't the issue.
| bko wrote:
| "Marketing" usually means getting people to know about
| your product or service and getting them through the
| door.
|
| If the owner has people sitting there and wants them to
| purchase more, that's more increasing average revenue per
| user which is limited. How much coffee can someone drink?
| If someone drinks a plain coffee, getting them to upgrade
| to a higher margin sugary drink is hard. You can push
| food and snacks, but that's also limited since you're not
| a restaurant and the person can only eat so many pastries
| or dry goods. For every one customer sitting down there
| are likely 10 customers that come in during that time.
| Why focus on the person sitting down?
|
| Getting more people in the door is probably an easier way
| to get more revenue. Especially considering the amount of
| people that can sit around all day versus the amount of
| people that can walk by and pick up a cup of coffee to
| go. In that regard, competition is definitely a huge
| factor. If a coffee shop has a 15 minute wait while
| another one is 5 minutes, I would likely pick the faster
| one. You can prefer one brand to another, but service is
| a huge factor.
| Firmwarrior wrote:
| If it turns into a cold and customer-hostile transaction,
| I'll just brew my own cup of coffee at home for 80 cents
| JanSt wrote:
| Yeah sounds like a MBA coming in and ruining a business
| by targeting the wrong metrics. Success comes by
| providing a lot of value, not by pushing as many people
| through the door as possible through creating an
| uncomfortable situation so the customer leave quickly.
| clairity wrote:
| yes, getting more people in the door was the point--a
| marketing problem, not a competitive one. what you don't
| want to do is give people a reason to eschew your shop
| with customer-hostility, which compounds rather than
| alleviates the marketing problem.
| zmgsabst wrote:
| You're assuming that loitering people are a negative on
| the business -- which is a mistake that Starbucks made as
| well, to their detriment.
|
| Starbucks did what you're suggesting to increase turnover
| and profit at stores -- but the opposite happened: sales
| dramatically dropped, even though the time to serve a
| single customer and the average customer stay both
| dropped.
|
| The issue is that Starbucks doesn't just sell coffee --
| they're a cafe. And cafes are in the business of selling
| thirdspace, where you create fun memories with friends
| and family. So when they provided a substantially worse
| version of that product, it sullied their brand and
| lowered their overall profit, because people no longer
| associated coffee at their chain with good times.
|
| Similarly, the owner of a small cafe I used to work from
| loved the three or four regulars who would come near open
| and stay all morning -- us being visibly chatty in the
| large storefront windows would draw in more of the nearby
| joggers than if the store was empty. We were a free
| living ad that getting coffee there was a fun time and
| popular with locals.
|
| I think you're ignoring a lot of ecosystem complexity
| with your "optimization".
| hyperpallium2 wrote:
| So small cafe owners won't mind, provided they are
| smarter than Starbucks was.
| JanSt wrote:
| I completely agree. Just think about your own behavior:
| do you choose the empty cafe or the one with many people
| inside?
|
| Unless the all-dayers are actually blocking space that
| other customers could use, they are likelier to profit
| the business than harm it.
| RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote:
| > only 1-2 customer-accessible wall sockets,
|
| Before I got an M1 laptop, this was a real issue for me. Now,
| it really doesn't matter. My battery will easily last the
| entire time I am in the cafe without really thinking about
| it.
| s3233323 wrote:
| loceng wrote:
| A busy cafe with seated people also psychologically has an
| impact on people just stopping in for takeout.
| mongol wrote:
| Buy more coffee - get more minutes?
| bogwog wrote:
| I used to think the same thing until I realized that I can't
| remember the last time I actually sat down in a coffee shop to
| drink coffee. I always buy it to go, and I imagine the vast
| majority of people do that too.
| james_pm wrote:
| Uncomfortable chairs is how fast food restaurants handle this.
| If you make the seating comfortable, people will stay longer.
| Make it less comfortable (or uncomfortable) and people will
| move on after a shorter period of time.
| comprev wrote:
| Have a system by which each coffee comes with a unique code on
| the receipt. This code grants you 1hr on the WiFi before
| terminating your session.
|
| Present a screen which provides a payment gateway to buy more
| time - or for less money - buy another drink.
|
| I've been to cafes before which let you "rent" a security lock
| for laptops and all the tables had a loop which they could be
| attached too.
|
| In many cafes I've seen signs saying "no tablets/laptops at the
| weekend" to make space for customers who want to socialise.
| jlokier wrote:
| > Have a system by which each coffee comes with a unique code
| on the receipt. This code grants you 1hr on the WiFi before
| terminating your session.
|
| I went to a place like that a few years ago. I could never
| comfortably finish my drink within the time limit, so I'd get
| cut off wifi while still drinking, even if I was just
| browsing to relax, not spending hours.
|
| Perhaps it worked for them: I stopped going there and taking
| up seating. Then again I stopped going there to buy anything
| as well.
|
| The internet time limit was an improvement over their
| previous policy, of playing music way too loud, which staff
| told me was deliberate. That didn't actually push people away
| who had laptops - people like me wore earplugs with noise
| cancelling headphones over the top, to bring the awful sound
| down to bearable levels. But it stopped people who came in
| for a chat with friends from chatting.
| duxup wrote:
| The few times I've had my home internet drop out and I needed a
| few hours of wi-fi to get work done I realized the local cafes
| were the same people there sometimes taking all the spaces. I
| usually got lunch and etc too considering I was taking up the
| shop's space for a few hours... but I was one of the few who
| did that.
|
| Maybe there needs to be an office space + cubicle + coffee shop
| rental thing ... but I'm not sure you could charge enough to
| justify it / folks would probably save money and just go camp
| at a coffee shop.
|
| It's an interesting dynamic.
| nicoburns wrote:
| > Maybe there needs to be an office space + cubicle + coffee
| shop rental thing
|
| This is essentially what co-working spaces like WeWork are.
| But they are quite expensive which is probably why a lot of
| people continue to use coffee shops (environment and location
| of coffee shop may also be preferable)
| duxup wrote:
| Yeah I work form home and I looked into those spaces at one
| time and OMG ... yeah that's not something I'm going to do.
| Aeolun wrote:
| I already pay rent on a whole home. Not going to pay the
| same amount for 6 square meter.
| [deleted]
| markus_zhang wrote:
| I'm thinking instead of cafe maybe a place that one can rent a
| small, dark and quiet room at relatively flat price. Say any
| coffee for the first hour and then $2 per hour. Additional
| basic Coffee is free but food needs $$$. Does it make any
| financial sense? I guess no? Is there a way for the customer to
| claim the expense as sort of WFH expense?
| swalls wrote:
| It's not exactly the same, but in Japan a few capsule net
| cafes opened up that sound similar to what you're talking
| about:
|
| https://youtu.be/HkNzjvueJm8
| markus_zhang wrote:
| Thanks that's almost what exactly I want. I don't need the
| computer though so that's a difference. I also want chairs.
| But that's what I have in mind.
| quartz wrote:
| We have a shop near us with a "no laptops" policy, and another
| with laptop hours. This works pretty well from what I've seen.
| trzy wrote:
| Historically, cafes were social forums where people gathered
| for hours at a time to read and converse. Maximizing absolute
| profit by optimizing customer throughput is the modern take.
| But that's not what cafes are for and so you should not feel
| bad for forcing owners to understand their business and
| optimize for both profitability and the cafe experience.
| dustymcp wrote:
| I worked at a cafe, it worked more like a family than a
| business, we all got food in the evening and had fun
| together, the restaurant was the main life, but one shouldnt
| underestimate the cafe when it was in a good day, alot of
| people enjoy just coming in and grabbing togo if its good,
| more than enough to make up for the hangarounds/workers.
|
| Also it seemed the more people who where actually there the
| more business it received.
| padolsey wrote:
| I would love a return to that historic ideal, though it just
| wouldn't be economical on its own. It would end up being a
| loss-making add-on to some larger enterprise.. perhaps a
| bookstore or a locally funded community centre?
|
| I'm reminded of Ziferblat [1] and other similar "anti-cafes"
| [2]. They shut down their local one here though, apparently
| due to not being able to meet the cost of skyrocketing
| commercial rents.
|
| [1] https://www.ziferblat.co.uk/Coventry/discover [2]
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-caf%C3%A9
| bombcar wrote:
| It's more likely the bookstore would be the loss-leader for
| the cafe.
|
| The usual killer, as you've identified, isn't people
| sitting at the tables but the rents. Possibly you could do
| a quite "successful" cafe as a non-profit that owns the
| building it is sitting in.
| Mikeb85 wrote:
| > Maximizing absolute profit by optimizing customer
| throughput is the modern take.
|
| Because real estate prices and thus rent have gone through
| the roof compared to the historic average.
|
| Coffee used to be expensive relative to wages and rent ultra-
| cheap. Now that's flipped.
| bottled_poe wrote:
| "Historically" is relevant how? The world moves on, cafes are
| no exception lmao.
| trzy wrote:
| You're right, they've moved on from periodicals and
| discussion groups to laptop usage for hours at a time :)
| didip wrote:
| I have been thinking of subscription only coffee shop.
|
| Members bring some kind of card to scan and enter.
|
| This way, members have a safe place to come in, work, and read
| whatever they want to read.
| supertofu wrote:
| We need more coworking spaces with cafes. Cafes weren't
| designed to be coworking spaces.
| Aeolun wrote:
| Recent ones are.
| uoaei wrote:
| It's a definitional thing. If you build a cafe for the
| primary purpose of encouraging coworking, you've built a
| coworking space with coffee, not a cafe.
| dang wrote:
| I used to go to this place sometimes but it no longer exists:
|
| https://workmode.co/san-francisco/workshop-cafe-fidi
| huydotnet wrote:
| Wow, I didn't know that we can work from Whole Foods
| https://workmode.co/san-jose/whole-foods-market
|
| jk. This is great! I've been WFH for quite a long time, and
| sometimes wish to have exactly the same app here where I can go
| find somewhere near my house to work. Thank you so much for
| building this!
| arecurrence wrote:
| I've used a similar product at https://workfrom.co . Albeit, it
| appears they partially pivoted during the pandemic towards
| virtual co-working.
|
| They have an app that has wifi speed reports which was my primary
| reason to install it (it also lists a qualitative score for
| accessing a power socket). There's around 20,000 locations in
| their database IIRC. The old web interface still exists eg:
| https://workfrom.co/search?g=seattle
| joshcsimmons wrote:
| Can I type my zip? UI is not intuitive....
| reducesuffering wrote:
| UI looks great! What tech stack are you using for build and
| deployment, other than Nuxt/Vue js?
| 3qz wrote:
| I just search coffee on google maps
| LesZedCB wrote:
| if you're in the PNW like me, you will find 80% espresso stands
| the size of a shed, and 20% actual cafes. it's pretty
| frustrating.
|
| if anybody is in Redmond, WA and love good, modern espresso, i
| highly recommend Five Stones. they have single origin espresso
| that's almost as good as what i make at home ;)
| frostwarrior wrote:
| Is this prepared for worldwide locations?
|
| I'm in South America and the nearest location is a cafe in
| Amsterdam. Is this due to a small data set or does it set you in
| Europe/North America by default?
| itslennysfault wrote:
| It shows me Amsterdam too, and I'm in the US. Seems like it
| just defaults to Amsterdam (doesn't use your location). Try
| searching for your city.
| pbhjpbhj wrote:
| I don't think it is, or the quick fix the owner made is not
| working.
|
| There appears to be a database collision.
|
| If I search "Birmingham" the search tool returns a list
| including "Birmingham, UK" and "Birmingham, AL, USA" but
| choosing Birmingham, UK goes to https://workmode.co/birmingham
| which shows the map for Birmingham, AL, USA.
|
| Maybe they could add short alphanum strings to the URLs to
| disambiguate (eg /Birmingham-D4F7A) or make each place it's own
| alphanum strings and add the name as an extra part that
| ultimately isn't needed (eg example.com/D4F7A/Birmingham).
|
| I guess this is a solved problem but I don't know of a town
| level global naming scheme?
| frizkyK wrote:
| Yes it is, the places are submitted by users of the website.
| Places are fetched from Google API when there are no places on
| Workmode. Turned this off tho, for now, because it slowed the
| backend
| m1117 wrote:
| Love the simplistic design - "500 Internal Server Error"
| alhirzel wrote:
| Hug of death
| another_devy wrote:
| Probably server went down due to too much traffic
| ASalazarMX wrote:
| Bro.
| louky wrote:
| Slashdotted.
| frizkyK wrote:
| Sorry for that.. Should be better now The backend fetched
| places from Google whenever there were none available :( Turned
| it off for now
|
| A better solution would be to queue and cron it.
| XCSme wrote:
| HN hug of death, website keeps loading. What's the tech stack?
| Shouldn't the basic static files still load properly?
| unnouinceput wrote:
| This must be an American thing. Here, in Romania, I can walk in
| any cafe and I have free Wi-Fi at broadband speed. Actually in
| any place of business where you can sit at a table (malls,
| bookshops, even mom&pop shops have this).
| wolfgang000 wrote:
| The "near you" list sent me to amsterdam, I'm in bogota, like a
| continent away, Maybe you should check your geo-ip api/db
| Vladimof wrote:
| 500 Internal Server Error
| frizkyK wrote:
| Should be fixed now, sorry for that.. The backend fetched
| results from the Google API whenever none were available. Had
| to turn if off for now
| dimitrios1 wrote:
| This sounds like a great way to overwhelm a person's local
| business with people who buy one beverage and then consume a
| table for the rest of the day. If I were a coffee shop owner I
| would be wary of this.
| frizkyK wrote:
| Yea I am strongly against that. I'll have to figure a way to
| make it clear to support the business by purchasing every now
| and then.
| josefdlange wrote:
| This, like most apps of its kind, struggles from a bootstrap
| problem. I live in a fairly non-tech-centric area, one where
| finding a good remote-work spot would be very useful, but because
| there's limited population of people who frequent both that kind
| of spot and this kind of site in the area, a site like this is
| unlikely to have results. It's a reverse network effect of sorts.
|
| Not your fault, frizkyK, but perhaps it's something to chew on.
| Maybe crawl some maps data to locate "potential" candidates and
| offer value to a user for evaluating them?
|
| Edit: I see that it's actually already a feature that you've
| disabled for stability reasons. Interested to see how it behaves
| once that's resolved.
| pydry wrote:
| Nice idea in theory but this works better as a feature of
| existing maps rather than as a whole new website.
| Alatrix wrote:
| Genuine question: why do you go to cafes to use wifi or an
| outlet?
| tppiotrowski wrote:
| When I click Near Me it shows Amsterdam but I'm in California. It
| also doesn't ask to geolocate me. Is it not working for me? It
| seems that you're using Cloudflare. I wrote a blogpost [1] about
| GeoIP lookup using free Cloudflare workers you might find useful.
|
| [1] https://tedpiotrowski.svbtle.com/free-geoip-api-with-
| cloudfl...
| xwdv wrote:
| If the cafes are so nearby wouldn't I already be familiar with
| them? But if they are too far, would I really travel to them just
| to work remotely? That's a commute, which is exactly what I want
| to avoid.
| frizkyK wrote:
| Workmode is great for people traveling to new cities. A lot of
| the users are so called digital nomads
| cddotdotslash wrote:
| This is neat! Small (I guess it's a bug?): in NYC it lists
| Bellevue Hospital on 1st Ave in Manhattan as a "space," which I
| guess technically it is, but I'm not sure they want you working
| from the lobby of the hospital.
| ChrisArchitect wrote:
| Where does the 'checked in' data come from? Foursquare?
| frizkyK wrote:
| From the users of Workmode
|
| You can create an account and actually check into places on
| Workmode :) You can do so by clicking on the button in the
| bottom right corner. It starts a speed test and review form.
| The results will be shared with other people!
| rabuse wrote:
| Amsterdam is somehow "Near Me" in Florida.
| kulikalov wrote:
| I don't think there is a way to replace local knowledge. I've
| been changing cities and countries many times in the past decade
| and every time I tried to find local gems using Google, maps,
| reviews and so on.
|
| Nothing comes close to substituting connection with locals and
| good old word of mouth.
| frizkyK wrote:
| I agree, but the results on Workmode are submitted and reviewed
| by users of the website! :)
| bowmessage wrote:
| Awesome website. Though, I am disincentivized to add my favorite
| hidden gems, lest they become so crowded that I can no longer use
| them myself :)
| frizkyK wrote:
| Sorry guys I'm so stupid.
|
| If there are no results, the backend fetches the results from
| Google and injects them into the database. Got tons of traffic
| posting it here, which messed up the backend. Just turned it off
| :'(
|
| Better solution to create a queue, cron, and occasionally fetch
| new cities...
| jamal-kumar wrote:
| I love the idea - One issue I'm seeing however is that places
| with duplicate names (Try "Santiago" or "San Jose" for examples
| of city names that are shared by many large places) aren't
| returning their distinct results when clicked on, immediately
| making it impossible for me to use.
| waynecochran wrote:
| I specify Vancouver it gives me the choice between WA and Canada.
| When I choose WA, it still gives me Canada. Ugh.
| muh_gradle wrote:
| I live in NYC and I probably would've enjoyed this site a lot
| more before I ended up just shelling for a WeWork membership. But
| coffee shops, libraries just aren't conducive to getting real
| work done. I'm more invested in co-working spaces again now that
| I have a fully remote job.
| mariorojas wrote:
| looks unavailable to me
| frizkyK wrote:
| Should be fixed now, sorry for that..
| mariorojas wrote:
| it is! thank you
| cmer wrote:
| I discovered a pretty neat alternative to cafes a few years back.
|
| I like to go to the food court at my local shopping mall. It's
| pretty much empty during the day, has plenty of seating,
| different table heights, outlets, wi-fi, etc. Nobody will kick
| you out if you're not constantly sipping coffee, and you won't
| feel the pressure to keep buying stuff. As a bonus, there is a
| McDonalds often selling coffee for just $1. And when it's lunch
| time, well, there's a dozen restaurants to chose from!
| loceng wrote:
| Bonus if you have decals on your laptop that promote your
| brand(s) - free exposure or potential conversation starter,
| especially during any rush times!
| kayodelycaon wrote:
| I like to hang out at IKEA. Coffee is free at the one here if
| you have their loyalty card and the staff enjoy seeing regular
| customers. There are a few couches and some comfortable seating
| areas in addition to nearly infinite supply of tables.
|
| Outside of the predictable busy days, it's a comfortable space
| to hang out in the evening.
|
| I also figured out the fire stairs in the cafe don't have
| alarms on the interior doors, so you can go directly to the
| ground floor lobby instead of walking through the warehouse to
| get to the exit. The staff encouraged me to use it as long as I
| exit the stairs inside the building. :)
| icelancer wrote:
| IKEA and food court is where I cycled between when I was
| unemployed and just needed to get out of the house. Both
| excellent options. Breakfast is very cheap at IKEA too, and
| can be high protein.
|
| Also when you have kids, taking them to Smaland at IKEA nets
| you 1-2 hours of free childcare while you work... or just
| relax.
| robervin wrote:
| Plus ample walking space in the winter months, relatively safe
| even during peak covid, 80s and 90s design, often have a movie
| theater nearby. Not sure what else one would want in a work
| environment.
| wellthisisgreat wrote:
| This is quite brilliant. Also I suppose the space is wide and
| with high ceilings which should help with abstract thinking
| enraged_camel wrote:
| ...is that a thing?
| andyjsong wrote:
| Absolutely, why do you think churches have such high
| ceilings? Or just sheer volume of air means you're getting
| more oxygen to your brain vs. working in a 10x10x10 cube.
|
| Maybe VR can help with this? Simulate nature without the
| drawbacks of working outside where there is a lack of
| internet and the sun glare on your screen.
| spiderice wrote:
| Like 5 citations needed
| wellthisisgreat wrote:
| Idk about 5, but here is one:
|
| http://assets.csom.umn.edu/assets/71190.pdf
|
| Also anecdotally (or, rather, I just can't provide a
| source), I heard from a philosophy professor that the low
| ceilings in cells of scholastic monks affected their
| thinking process, driving their hyper-focus on detailed
| arguments. I don't quite remember which school he was
| comparing with though.
|
| An alternative take - since the "abstract-detail-
| oriented" thinking may be susceptible to feedback-loops,
| one may consider that they are more detail-oriented in
| rooms with low ceilings and abstract-minded in rooms with
| high ceilings, and his brain will make it a self-
| fulfilling prophecy :)
| [deleted]
| WaffleIronMaker wrote:
| https://xkcd.com/285/
| frizkyK wrote:
| I've been doing the same when I was traveling in Asia :)
|
| Btw, you can also submit and check into food courts on
| Workmode! I've added a couple myself haha
| whitepaint wrote:
| That looks very nice! Where did you get info about wifi speeds of
| cafes'?
| frizkyK wrote:
| Users can check into a place whenever they are located in a
| cafe. Checking in starts a speed test and a review form. The
| result gets shared with other people.
| toyg wrote:
| I think it's supposed to be reported by users themselves when
| they are there, considering it prompts you to do that.
| frizkyK wrote:
| Exactly
| wbobeirne wrote:
| Quick bug report: I changed my username, and while it's updated
| the routing, it hasn't updated the UI. The form keeps trying to
| use the old username, and the profile menu item keeps linking to
| the old username.
|
| Also, "Near me" doesn't seem to work. It finds nothing, even
| though when I manually search my city there are plenty of
| options. Might be useful to explain how it determines what's
| "Near you" and attempt to expand the radius or suggest a search
| if it finds nothing.
| Zigurd wrote:
| A good database of municipalities for the drop-down selector for
| location. _But_ when I select my town, the site gets my location
| wrong.
|
| The Town of Harvard is not very near the university named
| Harvard, nor the Cambridge neighborhood of Harvard Square. So
| either the location of the town is incorrect, or the application
| is in some other way misinterpreting the selected location.
|
| It also finds no cafes near Harvard Square.
| 2b3a51 wrote:
| Just tried the site, works fast and nicely but...
|
| I searched for 'Birmingham' in the search box. The suggested list
| included Birmingham UK as well as Birmingham Al and all. Clicked
| to accept Birmingham UK and got a list of places in Birmingham AL
| USA.
|
| I understand that the system is based on user reports. But
| perhaps a way of saying 'nothing for Birmingham UK, did you
| mean...' might help.
|
| PS: a few below for Birmingham UK
|
| https://www.waylandsyard.com/birmingham
|
| Off peak afternoons good...window benches are nice. Batteries
| needed. Just up the road from a huge but largely empty co-working
| space in an old department store that charges huge fees. Wifi
| OKish
|
| https://javaroastery.co.uk/
|
| Java Roastery: again best at off-peak times, i.e. mid morning or
| mid-afternoon. Quite a few one / two people tables. Batteries
| needed.
|
| https://www.karibucoffeehouse.co.uk/
|
| Tanzania theme, used to have a lovely long bench against a wall
| with power sockets and fast wifi. The bench was a COVID victim
| but power might still be OK. I'm hoping the drop-donuts with
| cardamom and spices are still on.
|
| https://www.oldprintworks.org/transfer
|
| Actual co-working space at PS75 month or taster PS5 for first
| week if you are passing through... not been there at all as I
| have an actual house not far away.
| jhugo wrote:
| I like the idea, but I threw in a bunch of test queries and it
| only seems to find cafes in places where it's easy to find cafes
| to work from (and thus the site is not really needed). In all the
| cities where I remember struggling to find a place to sit with my
| laptop, it returned zero results.
| focom wrote:
| How did you seed the first cafe? is it all crowd sourced? I only
| see two cafe in Montreal, QC
| frizkyK wrote:
| Users can check into a place whenever they are located in a
| cafe. You can do so with the little button in the bottom right
| corner. You can also submit places when you're a (free) member,
| without checking in.
| kkfx wrote:
| A small foreword: I'm not criticize author work but the concept
| of nomadic work. I have _nothing_ against nomadic life. I have
| _much_ against working in public place with the screen visible,
| the keyboard visible, often connected on crappy WiFi sometimes
| even proxyed networks, ...
|
| Working on a desktop means that screen and keyboard must be in a
| controlled and reasonably private environment, a personal boat is
| ok, a tent can be ok, a camper can be ok, but not a public place
| with people normally sit behind you. Also when you need to talk a
| quiet place is mandatory.
|
| Long story short: WFH is NOT working in a cafe or on a beach.
| Similarly nomadic work is not open-space work. Those of open
| space kind should IMVHO classified as dangerous to the point that
| outside special case it must be forbidden.
| ghaff wrote:
| People should absolutely be aware of what they're working on in
| a space where someone can see their screen. The "Hostile bid
| for Twitter" preso should almost certainly not be being worked
| on in a Starbucks. But a ton of us work on stuff day to day
| that is not remotely highly sensitive.
| TheRealNGenius wrote:
| ok but why. Why didn't you just look it up and never use it
| again, unless you move every 3 months.
| nocubicles wrote:
| Cool idea but it shows me Amsterdam cafes but I am located in
| Tallinn.
| toyg wrote:
| I think it defaults to Amsterdam for anyone it cannot locate
| (because "A" maybe...?).
| worldsayshi wrote:
| Because no-one has added a closer cafe yet.
| hpeinar wrote:
| Not sure how much use it would be for Tallinn anyway, you have
| Wifi in your pocket anyway so that really isn't a deciding
| factor usually (unless you are traveling through and don't want
| to get a temp SIM for mobile internet).
|
| If I'd have to guess, people pick cafes to work from here based
| on the location, atmosphere and food.
|
| Could literally work under a tree in a forest here if you have
| enough battery.
| ChrisArchitect wrote:
| Fun to play around with, nice job. Looking at all the cafes and
| coffeeshops from the before times when going out was safe and
| working from home wasn't the norm.
|
| Random: a 'workplace' near me is listed on the map but it's a
| medical supplies store? Not sure why it's listed as an option,
| pretty sure there's nothing in there but retail. What's the
| criteria for your listings?
| CodinM wrote:
| Nice, but I specifically don't want this tool. I work from cafes
| a few days a week. I'm aware that this is not what cafes are for,
| so I generally try to consume as much as I can (multiple
| espressos and water bottles that I'd honestly normally get) to
| offset that, and also tip generously. I also try to get the most
| undesirable and/or smaller table, and so far the people
| appreciated and understood what I'm doing. But then again, I know
| people are different. So I'm not looking forward for a lot of
| people to fill cafes and sit there for 4 hours on a 2$ bill, it's
| just going to hurt me as someone that tries to be mindful of
| someone's business, and the business owner as someone who'll have
| to kick out a hobo with a Macbook for sipping an espresso for 5
| hours while working for more than the coffee shop makes in a
| day/week.
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