[HN Gopher] Framework Laptop Mainboard
___________________________________________________________________
Framework Laptop Mainboard
Author : hecanjog
Score : 972 points
Date : 2022-04-19 21:43 UTC (1 days ago)
(HTM) web link (github.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (github.com)
| ryukafalz wrote:
| This is incredibly cool. Love to see anything that encourages
| repair and reuse of parts that still have some life left in them!
|
| If I hadn't just recently bought a new laptop I'd likely be going
| for a Framework today, and provided they're still around when
| it's time for an upgrade it'll probably be my next laptop. (I
| suspect it'll be a while before I need a new one though.)
| peatmoss wrote:
| I've gotten into handtool woodworking somewhat deeply this year,
| and this is giving me serious desires to create a wooden chassis
| for something... retro.
| mappu wrote:
| The EOMA68 project had some similar goals to Framework and had
| an optional wooden chassis:
| https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68/micro-desktop
|
| They haven't had much activity in the last few years though,
| and the compute card for it is now very outdated.
| user123456780 wrote:
| I have an old metal break in the garage I have been meaning to
| make a laptop chassis out of copper or brass. I think it would
| be dope to have a unique looking steam-punkish designed laptop
| peatmoss wrote:
| Hand-made has given me a new perspective on opulence. Maybe
| it's just the Ikea effect on overdrive, but making the things
| you want is so satisfying in terms of the process, and the
| one-of-a-kind results can be really prideful.
| ge96 wrote:
| Side note, I think the STL viewer in github is such a cool
| feature
| disqard wrote:
| TIL -- thank you for pointing that out!
| pharmakom wrote:
| Surprised to see the prebuilt laptops come with windows. I was
| expecting Ubuntu or some other mainstream Linux distro.
|
| I assume a large segment of users install Linux? How does the
| trackpad experience compare to macOS?
| pjerem wrote:
| I think they just wouldn't have had the same press coverage in
| the tech press if they were selling a "Reparable Linux laptop"
| instead of a "Reparable laptop".
|
| For the general public, it's not obvious that an OS can be
| changed.
| nrp wrote:
| We ship the DIY Edition without an OS to let folks bring their
| preferred distro. We looked at doing a pre-built SKU with a
| Linux distro, but found that preference is fairly even among
| the top five or so most popular distros with a long tail of
| distros beyond that. We recently launched a Linux compatibility
| page to make it easier for folks to select a distro for their
| DIY Edition: https://frame.work/linux
| TheMagicHorsey wrote:
| Wow, these guys are awesome. Love to see a company take a new,
| and potentially long view towards customers and profitability.
| Most companies in their position would be jealously guarding this
| information and would be paranoid about cheap clones taking away
| their market/customers. But this team is not.
|
| Shows they are confident in their ability to not just rest on
| laurels, but continue to develop a platform, add value, and earn
| their customers business.
|
| Now, if only we could get a lovely M1 Pro chip (or something like
| it) into their deserving hands! At the moment my Mac 16 Pro is
| unbelievably better than all the x86 competition out there ...
| except for the fact that its a totally proprietary and
| unrepairable black box.
|
| I would love to see AMD, Nvidia, or a company like SiFive release
| something like the M1 Pro, and then an integrator like Framework
| put it all into a great package and finally give Apple the
| competition they need.
| noveltyaccount wrote:
| The 3D printable, open-source, case that allows you to use the
| mainboard as a standalone computer is such a nice touch!
| https://github.com/FrameworkComputer/Mainboard/tree/main/Mec...
| praveenhm wrote:
| It would be interesting if you can build something like Mac
| Studio desktop for linux.
| Flankk wrote:
| I mean, you can build your own with any Mini-ITX motherboard.
| The only thing is you don't have the tight integration of
| soldered RAM, the quality slave-assembled parts, and the two
| years of faster speed before lowering performance for power
| consumption reasons.
| nivenkos wrote:
| The Framework pricing seems crazy, it'd cost about 2400 euros to
| get it in my country (where it isn't sold directly atm). That's
| over 2 months of discretionary spending (net income after
| mortgage + student debt).
|
| And it doesn't offer an ISO keyboard either.
|
| For 2400 euros I could almost buy a whole computer, TV and an
| Xbox...
| spoonjim wrote:
| The prices are more comparably reasonable in the US, but still
| on the expensive side compared to Apple because they don't have
| the economies of scale. Important thing to realize is that the
| Framework laptop is a super-premium piece of hardware. Holding
| it and using it the quality level is better than anything other
| than an Apple laptop.
| ahaferburg wrote:
| I don't understand why you'd write "my country". How is that
| supposed to mean anything to anybody. Why not write which
| country it is?
| sirkiller wrote:
| If it's not sold directly, how would they be able to control
| the pricing? Framework starts at 1149 EUR for the base spec,
| the DIY version starts at 899 EUR. A MacBook Pro starts at 1449
| EUR, seems fair to me.
| cge wrote:
| They certainly do offer ISO-ish keyboards (with the exception
| of the unfortunate arrow key layout, which breaks 9995-5), as
| I'm typing on one right now. They don't offer them pre-
| installed for US orders, if you're looking there; try looking
| on their EU site instead. In the US, however, you can order the
| keyboards separately for around $40; the case is designed to
| support both ISO and ANSI layouts with the same cutouts.
|
| As another commenter has pointed out, there is the quirk,
| however, that their "English International" keyboard is ANSI.
| Their British, German, French, etc keyboards are.
| yjftsjthsd-h wrote:
| Oh, that's cool - so you could use the mainboard as a SBC? Put a
| few of them in a case with a (big) PSU and some I/O (storage,
| probably) and have a cluster-in-a-box?
|
| Or, in the opposite direction, is this material enough to create
| a drop-in replacement board with, say, an ARM (or eventually
| RISC-V) processor that you could put in a Framework Laptop?
| nrp wrote:
| This release is aimed more at the former. We're happy to
| connect with and support anyone who wants to make a serious
| attempt at a drop-in replacement board though, and would use
| that exercise to create more documentation to share publicly.
| Scramblejams wrote:
| I'm looking forward to people putting Steam Deck motherboards
| into Frameworks...
| yellowapple wrote:
| Or Framework motherboards into even more ludicrously large
| Steam Decks.
| fernandogrd wrote:
| The blog post has more information:
| https://frame.work/blog/mainboard-availability-and-open-sour...
| wormer wrote:
| I would buy this laptop once my current laptop dies (don't want
| to produce unnecessary e-waste) if it had coreboot. Until then,
| I'm planning to use system76. I'm conflicted between that though,
| because I want to support small business, but I'm not sure which
| one to support!
| riyadh144 wrote:
| You cannot go wrong with either, I have been very happy with my
| system76 laptop, One company is open source hardware the other
| is open source software. I wish both could cooperate and do
| some great work.
| CalRobert wrote:
| I'm 3 days in to using a Framework running Ubuntu as my main
| computer, switching from an XPS 13. So far, I'm delighted. Thank
| you for making this computer.
| ibz wrote:
| I'm a few days away. Waiting for my Framework to arrive. I
| probably have never been this excited about a laptop in my
| whole life.
| shriek wrote:
| Don't let battery drain scare you like it did to me. There is a
| workaround that alleviates that a little with deep sleep mode
| on. Although, not perfect it's bearable. Aside from that I've
| been a happy customer for a solid 5 months now.
|
| Random aside, just last week one of my friend's kid dropped
| some sticky food on keyboard and closed the lid leaving my
| keyboard virtually unusable. I was able to just unscrew
| everything and clean the keyboard and get it to working again.
| Would have never been possible with Macs. :D
| bobsmooth wrote:
| Was looking forward to this. Excited to see what people can make
| with an easily available high powered SBC.
| nicolas_t wrote:
| I wish I could justify buying a laptop from Framework because I
| like what they do and would like to support them.
| cbrogrammer wrote:
| will this laptop ever ship with a non-US keyboard layout? The
| enter key is so bad on them, I hate that it is long and not high.
| Dealbreaker unfortunately, wish I could buy one of these.
| GrantZvolsky wrote:
| As with other manufacturers, keyboard availability is
| determined by the region. If you import one from the UK, you'll
| have different keyboard options.
|
| On top of that, the US marketplace has different keyboards
| available[1]: https://frame.work/marketplace/keyboards
|
| [1]: if you're getting a redirect, switch your region to US
| nrp wrote:
| As noted by other commentors, we have a wide range of keyboards
| currently available with the laptop, including ISO ones. In the
| UK and countries in the EU we currently ship to, we have
| British English, French, and German, which are all ISO, and
| English International which is ANSI. In the US and Canada, you
| can also swap to any of those keyboards, plus a few others like
| French Canadian by picking up a keyboard in our Marketplace.
| GrantZvolsky wrote:
| If anyone from Framework is reading this: It appears as though
| the image[1] accompanying the US International keyboard on the
| US Framework Marketplace[2] is inaccurate. It seems to be an
| ANSI keyboard with the word 'gr' crudely photoshopped into the
| right alt key. This is most likely a mistake, as the term 'US
| International' typically refers to an ISO keyboard. I would
| humbly suggest that Framework correct the image and clarify
| whether the keyboard in question is ISO or ANSI.
|
| [1]: https://frame.work/marketplace/keyboards
|
| [2]: https://frame.work/products/keyboard?v=FRANBKEN05
| nrp wrote:
| Our English International keyboard is indeed ANSI. The two
| differences are "Alt Gr" and a euro symbol (which is missing
| from that image, and which I've just captured as a bug
| internally). This is the keyboard layout most popularly used
| in the Netherlands.
| [deleted]
| b0m wrote:
| How to get an invoice?
|
| For some strange reason it's still not possible to get an invoice
| and people and businesses are having issues with that.
|
| https://community.frame.work/t/how-to-get-an-invoice/16033/
|
| https://community.frame.work/t/where-can-i-find-my-invoice/1...
| emptyfile wrote:
| ha ha... what? how is it even legal for goods without invoice
| to enter the EU?
| tecleandor wrote:
| I guess it's similar as when you buy through eBay or
| something (only guessing, not justifying it)
|
| Until a while ago it was notoriously difficult to get an
| invoice when buying from Amazon Europe.
| occamschainsaw wrote:
| This might be a tangent. Do you have any plans for eink display
| modules for the Framework laptop? I know it's a niche and the
| eink panels are expensive, but it would be amazing for a portable
| machine.
| Karsteski wrote:
| I would love to buy one of these and hack it into something
| absurd, if only I had the money to burn!
|
| Love what you're doing Framework, I will purchase one of your
| products in the future for sure :)
| btgeekboy wrote:
| This announcement's quite neat on its own. But if the board had
| an exposed PCIe connector, they'd be fantastic to build a SFF PC
| around.
| asojfdowgh wrote:
| > I did a quick check with a TBT2 eGPU I have and it is
| recognized. We can grab some newer GPU docks and test to
| confirm they work. But yes should work.
|
| > yes, tbt3/usb4 tops out at 32gbps, which is about the same as
| pcie gen 3 x4 - so will not be the same speed as a x16 slot on
| a desktop, but still plenty fast for a lot of use cases.
|
| from the frame.work forums
|
| so you practically have a PCIe slot/s available if you get an
| adapter for them
| btgeekboy wrote:
| That's not as great as a typical x16 slot you'd find for a
| native graphics card, and comes with all of the usual TB
| baggage. But it's definitely an option for some other types
| of cards.
| warmwaffles wrote:
| How long until we see someone cluster 10 of these in a 4U rack?
| jotm wrote:
| This is rather cool. I sometimes think about using a laptop
| motherboard in a custom built case and pushing the CPU/GPU to
| their limits (no bueno without that, BIOS must allow full
| voltage/TPL control).
|
| Is it practical? Maybe if you want a very thin/light/quiet
| desktop that can run a long time on a built-in battery...
| otherwise, just an interesting project and a way to reuse older
| laptop boards.
| kevinherron wrote:
| I hope these guys are around long enough to put out a V2 and I
| hope that V2 has some different screen options.
|
| For me the resolution either needs to be ideal for 100% scaling
| or for 200% scaling, nothing in between.
| vlmutolo wrote:
| I have the Framework, and I haven't noticed anything off with
| the display's "in-between" resolution.
| nikodunk wrote:
| Same here. I'm using it with Fedora and wayland's 150% scaing
| works perfectly nowadays.
| jjice wrote:
| Everything appears sharp? I had had issues with Ubuntu and
| fractional scaling a while back with blur, but I'd elated
| if this is something that's been worked out in wayland.
| Come to think of it, wayland may have been fine, and xorg
| was the issue. I'm forgetting at the moment.
| juanci_to wrote:
| I have one too, using it with Linux.
|
| I'm using it with fractional scaling at 175% and I notice
| that it's less sharp than with either 100% and 200%.
| devn0ll wrote:
| I use pop!_os 22.04 beta with wayland and fractional
| scaling 125%. Some software needs to be told to use wayland
| stuff, but otherwise it is sharp as a tack.
|
| For instance: MOZ_ENABLE_WAYLAND=1 firefox
| cosmiccatnap wrote:
| Big fan, few small things.
|
| AMD models, and maybe even arm64 mainboards would be lit.
|
| 16 inch variant, black and white options.
|
| Oh, and if possible, coreboot please.
|
| Keep up the good work, you have my money
| nrp wrote:
| I'm happy to answer any questions anyone has on this. This is an
| initial set of documentation, and we'll prioritize
| writing/creating more based on what is most useful to enable
| Mainboard re-use.
| clarkevans wrote:
| I've got 2 questions unrelated to the mainboard.
|
| Will a matte screen be supported?
|
| Will a thinkpad style keyboard be available for the framework?
| Raynaud's syndrome makes trackpad sensing poor.
| sandreas wrote:
| Did you ever consider ECC Memory support? This would make SOHO
| workstations and storage appliances interesting to build with
| your board...
| wheybags wrote:
| I don't think intel mobile CPUs support ecc
| SSilver2k2 wrote:
| Incredible work.
| supermatt wrote:
| Note that you'll need some fasteners to install everything (see
| https://guides.frame.work/Guide/Fasteners+Guide/106 for all
| fastener types) - 5x Mainboard fasteners - M1.6
| 1.5mm fastener with a 5.5mm diameter T5 head and 0.6mm thread
| pitch - 3x Audio Board and WiFi card fasteners - M2 3.0mm
| fastener with a 4.5mm diameter T5 head and 0.7mm thread pitch
|
| These arent ISO metric thread pitches. Why not use standard
| fasteners? I cant find these to buy anywhere online (even with
| different heads) - even your own website doesnt stock them...
|
| EDIT: looks like im not the only one to ask - theres an
| unanswered question on that guide since Apr 2 asking the same
| thing.
| nrp wrote:
| This is most likely an error in our fasteners guide (which I
| wrote, so it's on me). I just sanity checked one of the M2
| fasteners with calipers, and it does indeed follow the ISO
| standard 0.4mm pitch. We'll double check the numbers we
| listed for pitch.
|
| For the 3D printed cases, for simplicity we didn't design in
| threaded inserts, so you can use self-tapping M2 or M1.6
| fasteners with approximately the right length and head size
| and it'll work.
| supermatt wrote:
| Thanks for checking - I thought it would be a strange thing
| to do given the product messaging.
| thot_experiment wrote:
| I find under-sizing the holes a bit and hitting the screws
| with a heat gun before picking them up with a magnetic
| screwdriver and screwing them in works really well.
| mschuster91 wrote:
| Undersizing holes is just a brilliant way to ask for
| cracks down the road.
| pvillano wrote:
| not if the screw melts the plastic, the same way heated
| threaded insert would?
| marius_k wrote:
| When does it come available to the rest of EU?
| thetinguy wrote:
| Can it be used as a single board computer like a latte panda or
| raspberry pi, once you supply thing like memory.
| noveltyaccount wrote:
| Yes, and they open-sourced a 3D-printable case just for that
| purpose :) https://github.com/FrameworkComputer/Mainboard/tre
| e/main/Mec...
| JohnBooty wrote:
| "We designed the Mainboard from the start as a standalone
| module to make upgrades easy in the Framework Laptop and to
| also work great as a high-performance single board computer"
| quickcheck wrote:
| Are there plans to release full schematics to help with board
| level repair?
| nrp wrote:
| We're able to make schematics and board views available to
| repair shops, but not to individual end users:
| https://knowledgebase.frame.work/en_us/availability-of-
| schem...
| wiseleo wrote:
| Disagree. Many people like me who don't operate a formal
| shop have a Quick station and know what's Amtech flux. I
| want access to schematics and boardviews. It is nonsense to
| withhold them.
| Syonyk wrote:
| What is the definition of a "repair shop"?
|
| I have, on my property, a standalone building in which I
| engage in a variety of activities to include fairly deep
| level repair of electronics. I have surface mount soldering
| skills and equipment (hot air rework, magnification,
| soldering tips), and documented surface mount work on my
| blog.
|
| But I'm not a "random corner computer shop that can replace
| RAM."
|
| Do I qualify, should I want schematics?
| userbinator wrote:
| Don't worry, if the history of all the laptops which
| don't even have any schematics available officially is to
| continue, they will be leaked soon enough.
| CamperBob2 wrote:
| <img src="stoppedreadingthere.jpg">
| rkagerer wrote:
| Why not?
| gedy wrote:
| Guessing so that Chinese clones don't flood market with
| knockoffs?
| yellowapple wrote:
| They would do that anyway, publicly-available schematics
| or no.
| userbinator wrote:
| A lot of existing (leaked) x86 mobo schematics are
| already available to anyone who cares to look. I don't
| think there's much "secret sauce" in a standard PC
| anyway, at least at the component interconnect level;
| it's almost like one of the worst-kept-secrets in the
| industry. There is a _lot_ of commonality between all the
| designs. They might differ in the exact parts they use
| (e.g. VRM MOSFETs) but there 's only so many ways to make
| something that works.
| colejohnson66 wrote:
| My first guess would be NDAs
| stephen_g wrote:
| I wouldn't expect so. All you get of third party parts on
| the schematic is the names of the pins, and that
| generally isn't kept secret. Sometimes the detailed
| functional descriptions of each pin are, but generally
| not anything you'd see from the schematic.
|
| If you look at the Open Compute project, there's full
| schematics available for boards that have far more
| interesting parts than what would be on this.
| userbinator wrote:
| Intel has become notoriously secretive with their
| documentation over the years, so I think that is very
| much the issue here. The 8086/8 were very open, but they
| started closing off little bits at a time after that.
| "Appendix H" in the P5 era was the first major sign of
| it. Bits and pieces have leaked out over time, but they
| still want to keep a lot of it secret.
|
| For comparison, someone has made an entire 386 PC
| motherboard himself:
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29273829
|
| I suspect there's enough information out there publicly
| to do everything up to perhaps a PIII (Socket 370 era) or
| thereabouts, but it starts being much harder beyond that.
| unixfg wrote:
| The link doesn't make clear why end users can't have access
| to this.
| rubynerd wrote:
| This looks absolutely incredible, and given the supply issues
| with Intel's NUCs, couldn't have come at a better time!
|
| Do you have an estimate of when the Framework Marketplace will
| be available for UK customers? Currently Marketplace links
| redirect to the UK homepage, and is only accessible after
| manually selecting "United States" as a country.
| nrp wrote:
| We're currently setting up the logistics infrastructure for
| the Marketplace for UK and EU. We'll have waitlist
| functionality open sooner so that you can at least browse the
| product catalog though.
| rubynerd wrote:
| Amazing -- thank you!
|
| The experience is a little rough with the redirect, and I'd
| love it if I could put an email somewhere for a reminder
| when it launches. Otherwise though I'm really looking
| forward to ordering soon!
| sras-me wrote:
| Not exactly on this topic, but when can we hope you to start
| shipping to India?
| mewse-hn wrote:
| No questions but I'm very impressed there is a 3D printed case
| in this repository and it's designed for home 3D printers (ie.
| split into smaller parts, printable without supports)
| poser-boy wrote:
| It's cool that the repo has 3D printable cases. But are there
| any plans of officially making and selling a "ThinkPad killer"
| chassis where the laptop is more durable, has TrackPoint, and
| classic keyboard?
| oogetyboogety wrote:
| More durable being the key point here. Anecdotally I remember
| reading horror stories once ppl upgrade about the cooling.
| Scramblejams wrote:
| +1. I badly want a modern interpretation of a Thinkpad that
| is true to its IBM roots. 7 rows, trackpoint, 3 mouse
| buttons, toughness, drain holes, and a silly amount of ports.
|
| Edit: And I want my ThinkLight back! It's not enough to light
| the keys from underneath -- the ThinkLight was great for
| giving a little glow around the laptop to light the working
| area up a bit when in a darkened room. I did a lot of
| homework under a ThinkLight. And extra points if we can make
| it shine in red!
| commoner wrote:
| I'd love to see a TrackPoint option, and so would many other
| prospective customers.
|
| https://community.frame.work/t/any-chance-of-trackpoint/1026
|
| Lenovo is doing the opposite of what Framework is doing by
| soldering down memory and making ThinkPads less repairable.
| Framework has a great opportunity to take in disillusioned
| ThinkPad customers who are only staying with Lenovo because
| of the TrackPoint.
| krolden wrote:
| Why no modular GPU?
| strohwueste wrote:
| First of all great work! But did you also consider the step
| after re-use? What happens to the components and the materials
| in recycling?
| nrp wrote:
| We hope and expect that many of the re-use use cases can have
| longer lifetimes than a laptop normally would (e.g. a pfsense
| box that happily chugs away in a closet for a decade), but
| past that point, it enters the same disposition stream that
| electronics can safely be recycled through by consumers.
| We're working on making that experience easier by having the
| QR code on each module point to a page that includes local
| certified recyclers in the future.
| strohwueste wrote:
| Ok great that's already way better then most ;) if you're
| interested in a LCA let me know
| minimilian wrote:
| When do you expect these computers will become coreboot
| compatible?
| Sirened wrote:
| Are there plans to release documentation (not just pinouts but
| protocol?) for other elements on the board? One of the
| frustrations with working with ARM SoCs is having peripherals
| that you just can't talk to because the vendor hasn't released
| documentation for it.
| nrp wrote:
| Could you share which peripherals you see a need for
| additional documentation on? In most cases where a specific
| IC is controlling a peripheral or interface, we're at the
| mercy of the IC vendor or relevant standards body (VESA, PCI-
| SIG, USB-IF) to decide what is public.
| pjerem wrote:
| wow that is so nice.
|
| Please please please keep the control of your company. The
| world desperately needs companies like yours.
| TheDudeMan wrote:
| Are there hardware off switches for any cameras and mics?
| josephcsible wrote:
| https://frame.work/laptop says "a hardware privacy switch
| lets you physically cut off power to the image sensor" and
| "The dual MEMS microphones are connected to a hardware
| privacy switch". So the laptop definitely has them, but I'm
| not sure if they're part of the mainboard.
| nrp wrote:
| Yep, they are actually part of the webcam module:
| https://frame.work/blog/1080p-webcam
| bobsmooth wrote:
| Any plans to sell this or other mainboards separately?
| nrp wrote:
| Yep, the Mainboard is available as of today:
| https://frame.work/products/mainboard?v=FRANFG000A
| bobsmooth wrote:
| $400 for a powerful SBC with consumer-level support and
| drivers is a pretty great price.
| ac29 wrote:
| Sure but outside a laptop, laptop processors make much
| less sense. $400 gets you a motherboard and a desktop
| class processor that is significantly faster.
| yellowapple wrote:
| That desktop motherboard and CPU likely requires more
| power, more cooling, and a bigger case.
|
| I can see the "Framework motherboard as SBC" idea catch
| on for everything from set-top boxes (Steam Machines
| could make a comeback this way) to a poor man's blade
| server.
| fomine3 wrote:
| It's better for SBC. Also laptop iGPU is better than
| desktop.
| rrss wrote:
| Being able to just buy something that works when you get
| it is a big plus IMO.
|
| I've tried a few times in the last year and finding parts
| (that are actually available) for a sub- $500 small-form-
| factor system seems to be beyond my capabilities :)
| bubblethink wrote:
| You need to get on to aliexpress for stuff like that.
| Plenty of router type boxes in that price range. Even
| lenovo, Dell, etc. sell some of these labelled as IoT
| gateways.
| toast0 wrote:
| Laptop processors make sense when space is at a premium,
| even if it's not a mobile device. But if space isn't an
| issue, desktop parts are usually a better choice; you can
| usually power limit desktop cpus to laptop levels if
| power usage or heat are a constraint.
| antattack wrote:
| "the average Core i5-1135G7 in our database is just as
| fast as the Core i5-10400H, Core i5-8300H, and Ryzen 7
| 3700U in multi-core benchmarks. The CPU acts even nicer
| when under single-core load, reaching similar heights as
| the Ryzen 7 5600X and Core i7-8700K."
|
| https://www.notebookcheck.net/Intel-
| Core-i5-1135G7-Processor...
| moondev wrote:
| Does the mainboard require the keyboard and screen modules
| to function?
|
| Or could one fully use it "standalone" providing they
| supply their own usb-c power, memory, storage + external
| keyboard+monitor?
|
| _edit_ - looks like it can. the 3d printable case is
| slick, wish it was sold in the store:
| https://frame.work/blog/mainboard-availability-and-open-
| sour...
| nrp wrote:
| It works fully standalone. Technically the only required
| items beyond the Mainboard itself are DRAM and a power
| source (USB-C or a Framework Laptop Battery).
| moondev wrote:
| This inspired me to start tinkering on my framework
| laptop. Is there an integrated power switch onboard
| somewhere? I couldn't find one so I still needed to use
| the fingerprint reader connected to the input cover.
| nrp wrote:
| In the top left corner of the Mainboard there is a small
| button labelled "SW1".
| eurleif wrote:
| Any word on when the batteries will be available? They've
| been "coming soon" for a while. I imagine there's a
| supply chain issue behind that -- not faulting you guys
| -- but it's kind of painful still not being able to
| replace the one part of my laptop that's guaranteed to
| wear out.
| nrp wrote:
| They are actually physically at our warehouse. The
| constraint has been the fulfillment logic to ensure they
| don't ship out from the warehouse by a method that allows
| air shipment. This is in progress, but in the meantime,
| we can manually take battery orders (an order containing
| only a battery) through our support form.
| yellowapple wrote:
| > The constraint has been the fulfillment logic to ensure
| they don't ship out from the warehouse by a method that
| allows air shipment.
|
| Best of luck with that. I know with UPS even the Ground
| services include the possibility of going via air if the
| destination is even slightly disconnected from the US
| mainland (and I distinctly recall having to program
| ERP/WMS logic for blocking ORM-D shipments entirely to
| the Catalina Islands' zip code because UPS would accept
| the ORM-D-marked package, try to load it on a plane for
| that last hop, and then send us nastygrams about _us_
| being the ones somehow at fault for it); I don 't think
| FedEx is any different in that regard.
|
| It's definitely possible to ship batteries via air, but
| it has to be marked air cargo only and the fees are
| probably too steep to be worthwhile unless you're
| shipping a bunch at a time.
| delusional wrote:
| When you select the different models of mainboard the order
| of the "Included", "Specs", and "Additional Information"
| options switch places. Just a minor UI thing.
| wanderingmind wrote:
| Sorry for the tangent, but any plans to open sales to Australia
| and New Zealand soon? I personally know a handful of people who
| will buy this and the laptop if given a chance.
| nirui wrote:
| Not really a Mainboard related question..... But I also
| wonder if it is possible for Framework to offer a global
| shipping option? I would totally handle import tax and
| customs fees etc myself if such option becomes available.
| oaiey wrote:
| Any component which has an electricity or wireless "uplink"
| will require regulatory approval before entering a market.
|
| Just "shipping" is not good enough if you are a hardware
| producer who cares whether the product can be legally
| operated in a country.
| nirui wrote:
| Understood.
|
| However, I think maybe there are ways to achieve delivery
| even if the manufacturer is not operating in the
| destination country? Maybe through a third-party partner
| such as Amazon?
|
| This Chromebook (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07YMM4YC1/)
| for example, ships from the US and can be delivered
| straight to my hand even Google don't actually operate
| here.
|
| Currently, if I want to buy the laptop, I have to hire a
| courier company to proxy the package (from their US
| warehouse to the destination country), the company will
| handle import and customs. But given the nature of the
| business, the package might be damaged or lost, and when
| it did, I might only get the courier fee refunded.
|
| Amazon on the other hand, almost never fail, and even if
| they did fail, I can still get all my money back.
|
| I would totally pay a small premium to get my laptop and
| other hardware safely delivered. So... I hope Framework
| consider this.
| loginatnine wrote:
| They gave a IMO good overview of the difficulties of
| selling to a new country in a previous post :
|
| > With our supply improving, you may be wondering when
| you can order a laptop if you're outside of the US and
| Canada. We selected and are bringing up our worldwide
| warehousing and fulfillment partner, which is one very
| key part of the equation, but it takes quite a lot more
| than that to enable a complete experience in each
| country. Picking Germany as one example, we need German
| language keyboards, a Type F power cable, in-box
| paperwork and labeling in German, localization for the
| Framework website, support documentation, and checkout
| flow, support for local payment methods, calculation of
| Euro prices and taxes, accounting support for German
| income, creation of legally sound Terms of Sale, Privacy,
| and Warranty policies for Germany, CE certifications, a
| local Authorized Representative to back up the
| certifications, determination of HS codes and tariffs, an
| Importer of Record to be able to deliver duty paid,
| German-language in-time-zone customer support, reverse
| logistics and RMA support for returns and repairs,
| region-specific sourcing of off the shelf memory and
| storage, trial builds of German laptops prior to
| production, and back-end ERP infrastructure to tie all of
| this together. That sounds like a lot, but it's actually
| a drastically simplified summary.
|
| https://frame.work/ca/en/blog/scaling-up-infrastructure
| skissane wrote:
| > Picking Germany as one example, we need German language
| keyboards,
|
| Australia and NZ are easier because there is no new
| language involved (both use English); unlike UK, there
| isn't even a different keyboard layout, both using the US
| English layout (but I suppose some people in the UK would
| be happy to buy it even if it had a US keyboard.) The
| only physical hardware change required would be a
| different mains power cord. Some of the other issues
| (regulatory/tax/currency/customs/etc) would still exist,
| but cutting the language issue out must simplify things.
| hbbio wrote:
| When you're ready to expand in APAC, please add Singapore
| too!
| andreareina wrote:
| I got mine via vPost, no problems.
| [deleted]
| teruakohatu wrote:
| I am also waiting to get a Framework in NZ. Hopefully they
| will partner with a local company to provide support. Having
| a repairable laptop is all very well, but not if we had to
| wait 6 weeks for the part to arrive.
| girvo wrote:
| I'm one of them. Such a shame that we can't get them here in
| Aus. I very nearly ordered it through a re-shipper system. If
| AusPost still did theirs, I would've!
| codewiz wrote:
| Any plans to adopt Coreboot or provide documentation and
| support to developers who want to port Coreboot to your
| mainboards?
| nrp wrote:
| We've handed three systems that can boot unsigned bootloaders
| to folks in the coreboot community. Our plan in the near term
| is to help them create a shim loader that can be signed to
| run on any Framework Laptop, which then enables anyone to do
| further coreboot development.
| gary_0 wrote:
| > All you need to do is insert memory, plug in a USB-C power
| adapter, and hit the tiny power button on-board, and you've got
| a powered-up computer.
|
| That's brilliant. Do you see potential for this becoming
| popular as a "Raspberry Pi on steroids"? Any future plans to
| encourage that kind of ecosystem?
| Cthulhu_ wrote:
| Maybe not so much a raspberry pi as a Mac Mini or other kind
| of small non-laptop form factor system; I'm sure that,
| especially with these plans, someone can make a VESA-
| compatible mount.
| crb wrote:
| From the blog post accompanying the release: "In addition
| to 2D drawings of the Mainboard to help you design your
| projects, we've released two 3D-printable reference
| designs. One is a minimal VESA-mount holder that lets you
| attach the Mainboard to a monitor or TV, while the other is
| a fully featured small form factor desktop case."
| geokon wrote:
| As far as I can tell, it has no output pins. So it's not
| comparable to Raspberry Pi (or other ARM SBCs). More akin
| maybe to an Android TV box? Short of making something through
| USB - you can't make your own header boards or easily hook up
| sensors and whatnot
| LeifCarrotson wrote:
| For something this powerful, you might make it into a
| while-house automation controller or large CNC machine, and
| you probably wouldn't want to hook up the IO directly to
| the main CPU... You'd use Ethernet for distributed IO,
| maybe I2C for local IO (combined with something like this:
| https://www.adafruit.com/product/732, which would provide
| much more powerful, ESD-tolerant, robust, 5V-capable inputs
| and outputs). A tiny handful of 3V3, low-current IO are not
| particularly useful for realistic use-cases. Heck, even the
| Beaglebone, with its 1 GHz Arm A8 and 512 MB RAM has a pair
| of separate microcontrollers ("PRUs") for real-time IO on
| the SOC.
|
| I wish there were some higher-speed, lower-level local
| busses for communication with subprocessors and other IO
| (SPI, CAN, etc), but Ethernet is fine.
| tmzt wrote:
| The RP2040 (Raspberry Pi Pico) has a similar feature, two
| programmable IO cores.
|
| Not for distributed use, but you can interface with USB
| and still have real-time signal generation.
| nrp wrote:
| Technically you can use the 50 pin header we have for the
| input system for GPIO, i2c, and USB. The webcam and display
| headers also have i2c and USB: https://github.com/Framework
| Computer/Mainboard/blob/main/Ele...
|
| The GPIO would require EC firmware development, but it is
| technically possible:
| https://github.com/FrameworkComputer/EmbeddedController
| geokon wrote:
| Is this on the ribbon cable? Okay with a breakout board,
| this would be really interesting and offer something
| quite unique
|
| It's actually open space right now in the market. It's an
| annoyance/limitation that the easiest current way to do
| i2c/gpio/etc hardware-y stuff involves moving to ARM/Rpi.
| There aren't any real easy solutions for x86 and
| hobbyists. I had a friend who worked in touchdesigner
| (which is x64 only) and it was always a bit annoying he
| couldn't hook say LED strips directly to his laptop and
| to touchdesigner (so people spend a small fortune on DMX
| lights). We ended up doing wifi + esps. But that's much
| more fragile..
|
| Maybe ideally you'd have a header on the side of laptop
| kinda like the Rpi400?
|
| But even a separate machine/baseboard would still be
| awesome in the hobby and education sphere
| ezschemi wrote:
| We recently built a product that utilizes FTDI chips for
| i2c/gpio/jtag/spi/swd-protocol support. My dev kits and
| bench setup uses the Adafruit FTDI breakout boards
| (https://www.adafruit.com/product/2264) to connect to
| various other circuitry. The driver and even the
| communication protocols are documented and open source
| (e.g. OpenOCD implemented their own based on the USB
| packets). The breakout board doesn't have 40-50 GPIO pins
| an RPI has, but you can hook multiple of these breakout
| boards to a computer. I am using 4 breakout boards with
| one ARM SBC each as targets, with no problems on an Intel
| NUC. And they are much smaller and easier to get than a
| RPi.
|
| Besides the FT232H, there are larger FTDI chips with more
| channels. I am uncertain if one can find USB breakout
| boards for them, though.
| MegiFlayer wrote:
| MegiFlayer wrote:
| nrp wrote:
| We certainly hope so. As we look at the ~5 year view of this
| and have a substantial number of Mainboards in the wild that
| have been upgraded out of Framework Laptops, we want to do
| everything we can to foster an ecosystem of methods to re-use
| them. We actually announced a giveaway of 100 Mainboards to
| developers as part of the release today to help bootstrap
| this: https://forms.gle/RegGHe6R4H5cEstH9
| blackkat wrote:
| Awesome idea! Looking forward to seeing the projects that
| come out of this giveaway, and I hope my idea gets selected
| as well :)
| walterbell wrote:
| Thanks for supporting long-lived hardware. One existing
| favorite is the classic Lenovo X230/X430 series, which has
| seen several mods over the years, with a healthy resale
| market.
|
| Do you plan to offer Pro/Enterprise CPUs (Intel vPro, Ryzen
| Pro), for h/w security features like memory encryption or
| Windows secured core / VBS?
|
| For open-source firmware and kernel/hypervisor development,
| it would be good to have a serial port header.
| nrp wrote:
| The i7-1185G7 SKU supports vPro:
| https://frame.work/products/mainboard?v=FRANFG000C
|
| We also have some additional debug support through a
| header that we've documented here:
| https://github.com/FrameworkComputer/EmbeddedController
| rozab wrote:
| People are already using them in place of lattepandas etc for
| cyberdeck builds.
|
| https://youtu.be/y8jiYl0CzKc
| occamschainsaw wrote:
| Hi Nirav, This might be a tangent. Do you have any plans for
| eink display modules for the Framework laptop? I know it's a
| niche and the eink panels are expensive, but it would be
| amazing for a portable machine.
| vaylian wrote:
| I'd also be interested in this. But at the same time, I guess
| it's more likely that a third party will produce this,
| because Framework has other priorities.
|
| For those who might wonder why eInk would be cool: Much
| better reading experience on the screen and insanely long
| battery life.
| rcoder wrote:
| I'm a huge eink display fan, to the point of owning
| multiple tablet-shaped devices with larger EPDs. I agree
| that the reading experience for effectively static text and
| b/w images is great, but once you introduce any scrolling
| or transitions it quickly becomes worse than a standard
| LCD. UIs really need to be optimized for eink, just like
| they should be designed differently for smartphones, big
| desktop displays, and screen readers or other assistive
| tech.
|
| W.r.t. power: I don't think EPD magically runs on less
| power _while refreshing_. So again, if you are mostly
| displaying static text and figures --- like in an ebook
| reader --- it's great. If you're constantly repainting the
| UI, less so.
|
| As much as we may like to think programming is all about
| staring at walls of text in editor buffers we've carefully
| tuned for readability, IME at least I spend a lot of time
| switching between an editor, live view of my running app,
| documentation, log and trace views, etc.
|
| Neither a slow refresh (4-10 fps) with major ghosting or a
| glacially slow (<1 fps) one that's clean is actually a very
| good trade off with most modern workflows. Including ones
| that are nominally about text, like coding.
| belter wrote:
| Congratulations on the project. Any plans for a 17 Inch screen?
| goodpoint wrote:
| Are all schematics, BoM, PCBs released with open licenses?
|
| Is anything patented?
|
| Would you welcome other companies making compatible components?
| gary_0 wrote:
| From the GitHub link:
|
| > licensed under CC BY 4.0
|
| > All of this is a starting point for a broader set of open
| source Mainboard documentation to enable creation of fully
| compatible third-party Mainboards in the future.
|
| I don't see any full electronic schematics/BoM in the repo;
| they don't tell you how to replicate or modify the
| electronics, just how to fit the form factor.
| snvzz wrote:
| It'd help to include a copy of the license, rather than a
| link to some other website.
|
| Legally, it is a bit of an issue as the linked license
| could technically change.
|
| Technically, it prevents github from recognizing CC-BY-4.0
| as the repository license.
| nrp wrote:
| Good catch, we uploaded a LICENSE file.
| juanci_to wrote:
| Hello! Happy Framework laptop owner here.
|
| Any plan to release an AMD alternative mainboard?
| devmor wrote:
| Very interested in this too. I would actually replace the
| Intel mainboard in my framework laptop and then use it for
| something else.
| kfrzcode wrote:
| Here's a great discussion in the community forum about AMD
| alternatives, and why the company, especially at such an
| early stage, might refrain from discussion, etc. I don't
| speak for the company, just a fan.
|
| https://community.frame.work/t/amd-cpus-an-open-letter-to-
| th...
| belter wrote:
| How is the thermal management? It's a notoriously difficult
| part of a design. Thinkpads for example tend to excel and
| Dell tends to fail miserably.
|
| Does it get very hot in your lap for example?
| juanci_to wrote:
| According to the thermometer right now: 50degC
|
| Sometimes it reaches 75%
|
| It's not hot by computer standards per se, but since it's
| built out of aluminum, there are moments when you wouldn't
| want to have it on your lap because it would be somewhat
| painful. Specially with some heavy compilation going on
| rvanlaar wrote:
| The link https://frame.work/marketplace/mainboards seems
| broken. It redirects me to https://frame.work/nl/en
| AggroVanGogh wrote:
| Same here when accessing from the UK - marketplace links just
| redirect back to the main laptop purchasing page.
| heavyset_go wrote:
| I like the idea of x86 SBCs because of ARM SBC issues with the
| lack of SBSA, while x86 computers ship with ACPI support.
|
| Now when are the AMD mainboards coming? ;)
| ncmncm wrote:
| Yes, I am waiting for the AMD version, as well. No doubt a
| lot of us are.
|
| Gotta say I was disappointed when the first ones out were
| Intel.
| heavyset_go wrote:
| So was I, as I was in the market for a new computer when
| they came out. Hopefully they'll jump on Zen 4 when it
| comes out.
| VTimofeenko wrote:
| I'm in the same boat. When AMD mainboard will be out, I am
| planning to stuff the Intel one into a Fractal case and
| just have another server for the home server zoo.
| gtvwill wrote:
| Just want to chime in with some appreciation. Phenomenal work
| your doing for tech with ethics.
| antattack wrote:
| Will BIOS support PCIe network card (with PCIe extender)
| connected to PCIe port? How many lines is it?
| moondev wrote:
| It's a laptop mainboard, there is no PCIe slot. Or do you
| mean nvme -> PCIe adaptor?
|
| Another option is to put the nic inside a tb3 pcie enclosure
| and connect that. There are 4 thunderbolt ports.
| antattack wrote:
| From what I could find tb3 to PCIe is very expensive. NVME
| is basically a protocol on top of PCIe with m.2 connector.
|
| Here's an example of m.2 to PCIe x4 adapter:
| https://www.delock.com/produkt/64131/merkmale.html
|
| If adapter is possible we could use 4 port gig adapter for
| a nice pfsense/opnsense router or a VM server.
| moondev wrote:
| Understood, I actually have a m.2 to PCIe adaptor on hand
| now that I use with success with my honeycomb lx2. I'll
| test a nic for you with the framework m.2 port.
| cbsks wrote:
| Are schematics available?
|
| Also, thank you very much. I love my Framework laptop!
| zucker42 wrote:
| Are you limited in how much documentation you can release
| because of contracts or legal reasons? For example, if
| Framework or another company wanted to build a fully open
| source mainboard for an Intel or AMD processor would that be
| possible?
| pvsukale3 wrote:
| 2 questions:
|
| 1) When are you planning to launch in India?
|
| 2) Have you thought about launching your own Linux distro
| optimized for Framework? You could upgrade Linux desktop
| experience. That would be awesome.
| mpartel wrote:
| System76 has done good work on Linux support for (seemingly)
| similar hardware: https://tech-
| docs.system76.com/models/lemp10/README.html - some of that
| might be reusable.
| xtat wrote:
| pls no custom distro - i dont want something that breaks in
| specific ways
| ibz wrote:
| +1 for own Linux distro.
|
| Apple always had the advantage of controlling both the
| hardware and the software.
|
| Also, in the Linux space, I had amazing experience with
| Raspberry Pi OS. Not only that it works well out of the box,
| but being the OS most people use on that specific hardware
| makes searching for answers to any issues much easier.
|
| Ideally though it would be as close as possible to an
| existing distro and only include patches needed for good
| Framework support.
| amelius wrote:
| > +1 for own Linux distro.
|
| It's a bad idea to force users to use one distro. There are
| many users who run NixOS, and others prefer Ubuntu, or even
| Gentoo.
|
| > Apple always had the advantage of controlling both the
| hardware and the software.
|
| Controlling my own hardware is exactly what I look for when
| buying a laptop.
| samhw wrote:
| > Apple always had the advantage of controlling both the
| hardware and the software.
|
| And this is exactly why anyone who likes that approach can
| & will buy an Apple laptop. Framework is clearly going for
| the opposite of that market. Instead of being a
| (necessarily) worse clone of Apple, I think it makes sense
| for them to cater to the market they are clearly aimed at,
| which is _not_ people who are happy with a walled-garden
| system.
| ibz wrote:
| How is having the option, besides Windows, to order the
| laptop preinstalled with a default, well tuned and well
| supported Linux distro a "walled garden"? Also, most
| patches in this distro would presumably end up merged
| upstream anyway.
| samhw wrote:
| I was referring to the prospect of their spending time
| working on their own distro, at the expense (considering
| the finitude of human lifespans etc) of supporting
| others. As with so many arguments, your point makes total
| sense until you consider that human effort is a finite
| resource.
| pvsukale3 wrote:
| Yes, that could be easier to rather develop it from
| scratch.
| emptysongglass wrote:
| There are already far too many distros (and DEs) out there.
| Working with the commons would be a far better approach.
|
| Once you start getting into specific hardware optimizations
| you are basically throwing up your hands on the interoperable
| approach that is a strength of Linux. There is no reason why
| those changes can't be upstreamed.
| icy wrote:
| +1 for India. I'd really like to get one.
| Iolaum wrote:
| Please don't ask for their own Linux distro. Upstreamimg
| their hardware drivers is enough. Their resources are better
| spent innovating at the hardware level. And upstream support
| for frame.work hardware means frame.work users can take
| advantage of all the innovation happening in the linux
| ecosystem because all distros would run on it.
| pjerem wrote:
| Yes, I can see some partnership with an existing distro
| (something like << merge our drivers asap and you get
| preinstalled >>) but IMO, the company behind Framework
| should focus on its strengths on the hardware design. I
| think they are on a hard market and it would make me sad to
| throw money into making another distribution.
|
| Furthermore, I think that, atm, their target market may be
| 95% of power users who will flash a usb stick with their
| favorite OS even before receiving the computer.
| Iolaum wrote:
| I think that have a working/unofficial? relationship with
| some people from Fedora. I remember announcements some
| time ago that everything is working with it. Also given
| Fedora's upstream first approach that was a very good
| choice of them.
| a-dub wrote:
| any chance there might be a thinkpad x/t series style case made
| for these?
|
| knocking off the mac is kinda cute, but mac laptop ergonomics
| and durability are terrible.
| user_7832 wrote:
| Will there be information on important parameters of the main
| board/PCB? I'm not exactly talking about physical dimensions or
| enclosure design itself - but as a mechanical engineer I have
| no idea what sort of safe flexural tolerance a PCB might have,
| or if there's some available data on shock and drop tolerances
| of the board.
|
| Also a quick qn 2 - any plans for a "smaller" board (maybe
| v2/later)? The current size is fine for a laptop but not ideal
| if someone is looking for building a tablet/small cyberdeck
| style device.
| nrp wrote:
| Great question on the additional parameters. I'll take that
| back to our mechanical engineering team.
| user_7832 wrote:
| Thanks!
| sampleAccount1 wrote:
| contingencies wrote:
| Many of us prefer larger laptops and find 13.5" too small for
| regular use. If a larger body were developed there would
| presumably be space for additional battery in addition to a
| larger keyboard and screen, maybe even more ports or extra
| devices[0]. Alternatively the system could be used as a screen-
| tablet with a wireless keyboard. Were either of these form
| factor changes considered as a potential design path during
| development? Do you have any plans to provide these as options
| in future? Presumably other than sourcing the panel, larger
| inbuilt keyboard and machining alternate cases neither option
| would be substantially difficult.
|
| [0] Expansion card program at
| https://community.frame.work/c/developer-program/expansion-c...
| shows ethernet, cellular, wireless charging.
| andreareina wrote:
| More ports would require another mainboard sku. But yeah I'd
| love a 15+ inch with 6 ports and more battery.
| contingencies wrote:
| Why? The ports don't need to be independent host-side
| channels. Worst case the addition of one extra embedded
| USB-C hub should allow almost any number of ports and
| devices to be added.
| ncmncm wrote:
| Agreed, I also am not interested in anything not at least
| close to 16 inches.
| ncmncm wrote:
| ("That's what she said"?)
| Kab1r wrote:
| Is there any way to get two 10gbe Intel nics on one of these?
| bb88 wrote:
| I never understood why someone just didn't build a Ethernet
| over TB-4 switch with USB-C cables instead of RJ45/SFP+ ports.
| Yes you'd be limited to 1 to 2 meters of cable length, but you
| could still add a proper ethernet port as a backhaul.
|
| Yes it might not be as fast, but in the end, all SATA, TB4, and
| ethernet does is push bits over a wire.
| disqard wrote:
| You could use "USB-C to Ethernet" converter(s).
| wmf wrote:
| Via Thunderbolt probably.
| Dave3of5 wrote:
| I welcome the approach here it's much better.
|
| I think the company has some way to go yet in terms of maturing
| overall as a laptop manufacturer. You can see a few of the
| problems on here e.g. invoices, old cpu ...etc. To me though the
| biggest problem is that there laptop isn't really bringing any
| feature that's new to the table.
|
| The repair-ability is awesome don't get me wrong but getting a
| laptop repaired isn't something new it's just they've made that
| part easier.
|
| Example here is the new M1 macbooks have insane battery life,
| excellent touchpad / gesture support, insanely thin. Asus Rog
| make crazy fast gaming laptops with almost desktop like
| performance and still in a reasonable looking form factor. Dell
| make really cheap (and shit) laptops with amazing availability.
| System76 make linux based laptops.
|
| I could go on but I think if they want to survive as a company
| they need something more than "it's easy to repair".
| stonefall wrote:
| Are these going to start shipping to Australia within the next
| 2~3 months?
| slaw wrote:
| 16 inch, 500 nits matte screen, better CPU and Linux as first
| class citizen.
| IE6 wrote:
| I agree and also 17 inch :)
| pcdoodle wrote:
| This is so cool!
| varispeed wrote:
| It's really sad that we got so low that something so trivial gets
| to the front page. Where are schematics, board layouts, BOM? I am
| not even mentioning "Theory of operation" sections and
| "Calibration" which was quite common decades ago.
| IE6 wrote:
| perfection is the enemy of progress or something
| martyvis wrote:
| Why is it trivial? Did you follow the link from GitHub to the
| main https//frame.work website? There are close to zero other
| offerings of a modular mobile computing platform that function
| as a laptop and single board computer.
| userbinator wrote:
| It's trivial in terms of how much documentation there is.
| Pinouts and dimensions are basically a given in any mobo
| manual. From that perspective they are just on par with the
| other SBCs out there. Here's a random example to compare
| to...
|
| http://advdownload.advantech.com/productfile/Downloadfile4/1.
| ..
|
| The comment may also be referencing the original IBM PC
| manuals, up until the AT, which contained far more
| information, including schematics and even BIOS source code
| listings.
| ZekeSulastin wrote:
| > Where are schematics, board layouts, BOM?
|
| Open your own repair shop and you can get all the schematics
| you want![1] If you're not a repair shop, enjoy your FRU
| replacement?
|
| [1]https://frame.work/blog/preparing-to-ship-and-respecting-
| you...
| yellowapple wrote:
| As if I didn't have enough reason to be happy about my decision
| to buy a Framework, here they are, giving me yet another reason -
| and possibly even a reason to buy a spare mainboard for a tiny
| desktop.
| asdfghjkl12 wrote:
| exikyut wrote:
| * _Flyswat_ *
| [deleted]
| lowbloodsugar wrote:
| Oh. Intel, huh?
| byefruit wrote:
| My current laptop needs to be replaced really soon, I'm hoping
| Framework will announce either a recent AMD Ryzen or Intel's
| Alder Lake. The difference between the 11th and 12th gen Intel is
| big enough I don't want to spend the next three years regretting
| it.
|
| Unfortunately Lenovo or Dell might get my budget if it looks like
| that's not going to happen for a while. This laptop has had a few
| too many drops off of my bike (which is why repairability would
| be great!).
| elromulous wrote:
| This. I'm in the same boat. No way am I buying an 11th gen when
| 12th gen is out. Upgradability shmupgradability if I need to
| upgrade 6 months or so after purchase.
| noveltyaccount wrote:
| Or for that matter, high end ARM chips :)
| geoffeg wrote:
| Is there any manufacturer with plans to come out with an
| Apple Silicon-level ARM chip (in terms of performance and
| efficiency)? Ever since the first benchmarks for the M1 chips
| started appearing I've been kinda dreaming of a Raspberry-Pi
| style system with a high performance ARM chip.
| ac29 wrote:
| Qualcomm, maybe. They aquired Nuvia (many ex-Apple people),
| who was designing such a processor.
| wmf wrote:
| Nvidia Orin, but they're charging a fortune for it.
| glowingly wrote:
| I'd want better mainline support for it. Either full
| mainline kernel support or something akin to it from
| Nvidia. My Jetsons were stuck on Ubuntu 18.04 since early
| 2020, with the old 4.19 kernel. They only recently beta'd
| a 20.04-based build with Kernel 5.10. Full release is
| 2022Q4. Somewhat like their "18.04" upgrade - very, very
| late. Sure, I could backport, try to upgrade on my own,
| etc. Some people have done so. Results were varied.
|
| IMO, Nvidia is comparing themselves to embedded vendors.
| For general compute, I'd like vendors to keep up with the
| Fedoras, sids, and Tumbleweeds of the world, at the very
| least. Not asking for _arch, btw_ :)
|
| Hopefully Nvidia's server ambitions with Grace will see
| them take on general compute.
| mappu wrote:
| For ARM64 performance, if you don't mind a desktop instead,
| there's https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px
| =ADLINK-A... with a 32-core Altra A1 in it including RAM
| for 4000 USD. It is very reasonable when compared to a
| Threadripper.
|
| In terms of power efficiency you'll need to wait until
| Apple stops monopolizing TSMC's N5 node.
|
| Apple almost singlehandedly invented the ARM64 ISA, and
| bankrolled the leading-edge TSMC process, so it's probably
| okay for them to have the best SoC for a while as long as
| others have a fair chance of catching up soon.
| [deleted]
| stormbrew wrote:
| for now I'd settle for -- and am really hoping for -- a CM4
| carrier board. Obviously it wouldn't be able to do full tb4
| through the usb ports like the x86 board but I'm ok with
| that.
|
| Something higher end would be fantastic too, but this feels
| like a walk before we get to run kind of situation.
| bodge5000 wrote:
| Out of interest, do you use your laptop as your primary
| personal computer, or do you just have a laptop on you for
| portability?
| pizza234 wrote:
| > The difference between the 11th and 12th gen Intel is big
| enough I don't want to spend the next three years regretting
| it.
|
| With the Framework though, the CPU (motherboard) is intended to
| be replaceable. There will likely be (assuming there isn't one
| already) a secondary market of individual parts.
| babypuncher wrote:
| When I buy a laptop with an upgrade path in mind, the hope is
| that I will do so in 2-3 years, not next week. Otherwise I am
| just spending a bunch of money on hardware that I will not
| actually use for very long.
|
| Alder Lake and Zen 3 have been out for a while now, so I do
| not think it is unreasonable to expect a brand new laptop to
| ship with either of them.
| ouEight12 wrote:
| > I do not think it is unreasonable to expect a brand new
| laptop to ship with either of them.
|
| For a Dell, HP, or other multinational conglomerate who
| gets new chipsets in advance from Intel and always has a
| dozen or more models on the never ending merry-go-round of
| 'hype the new, dump last seasons at Costco on the people
| who don't know any better', no, it's not unreasonable.
|
| For a small batch manufacturer who's been shipping laptops
| less then a year and is still effectively on their first
| model release? All in the middle of a pandemic induced
| supply chain fiasco?
|
| It kind of is.
| babypuncher wrote:
| Maybe for Alder Lake, but Zen 3 has been around for an
| eternity, and is already on the cusp of being succeeded
| by Zen 4. Zen 3 is also _so much better_ than 11th gen
| Intel that I struggle to understand why any manufacturer
| would have chosen Intel for their new flagship laptop in
| 2021.
| csdreamer7 wrote:
| > Maybe for Alder Lake, but Zen 3 has been around for an
| eternity
|
| 5000 series Zen 3 has on desktop. Zen 3 based 6000 series
| laptops with RDNA2 graphics are still newish and a little
| difficult to get. Even from tier-1 brands.
|
| AMD was also a little late to getting Linux support into
| these computers. 5.17 (released a few weeks ago and is
| what Fedora 36 will release with) just got support into
| the Ethernet driver.
|
| https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Linux
| -5....
|
| Mobile Alder Lake just launched (in Feb?). Don't confuse
| the desktop with the mobile variants-especially when you
| are considering driver support.
| yata69420 wrote:
| This is spot on. If Framework offered Zen 3 and 120hz+
| display, I would absolutely buy one immediately.
| Sebb767 wrote:
| On any thread on framework, comments in the form of "I'd
| buy one right now if it had X" are probably the most
| common, for quite a few X ;-)
|
| That being said, I'm also waiting for an AMD CPU. Given
| that it is the most requested feature, though, I assume
| they'll be there in the next iteration.
| wmf wrote:
| Buying an obsolete laptop now and upgrading it in a few
| months is not a good use of money though.
| delusional wrote:
| It's also not a good use of the earths resources, which i
| think is part of the ethos of framework.
| dymk wrote:
| Electronic components are some of the most profitable
| materials to recycle.
|
| The whole "it's more green" thing is marketing fluff.
| bogwog wrote:
| Reduce > Reuse > Recycle
|
| Recycling is the worst of the three by far.
| willismichael wrote:
| Well, the framework hardware is much more likely to be
| used by somebody who can buy it secondhand, unlike a lot
| of laptops that are intentionally designed to be a pain
| to reuse/repair.
| idealmedtech wrote:
| Lenovo P series has great repairability! Will definitely be
| getting a framework next, though.
| [deleted]
| thomasfl wrote:
| That's how you do it!
| thelazydogsback wrote:
| Great stuff! Can't wait for an old-man version that's 15.6", 16"
| or 17" :)
| [deleted]
| RF_Savage wrote:
| Nice to see the mechanical designs getting published.
|
| Has anyone yet designed an adapter board for fitting rpi compute
| module 4 in the case?
| Synersoft wrote:
___________________________________________________________________
(page generated 2022-04-20 23:02 UTC)