[HN Gopher] Why the Arrest of a Lebanese Doctor Should Terrify E...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Why the Arrest of a Lebanese Doctor Should Terrify Every Visitor to
       the UAE
        
       Author : Michelangelo11
       Score  : 142 points
       Date   : 2022-04-18 21:01 UTC (2 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (insidearabia.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (insidearabia.com)
        
       | kjellWho wrote:
       | I wonder how someone who publicly joked about supporting ISIS or
       | Al-Qaeda and hoping they strike the new WTC would be greeted if
       | they arrived to the US.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | Krasnol wrote:
         | To be fair, the US is hardly a good example for a
         | civilised/normal Western country.
        
           | mattcwilson wrote:
           | What would be a better one?
        
           | mardifoufs wrote:
           | If we were to rank "civilized" by restrictions on speech, as
           | you seem to be doing here, the US would be so far ahead that
           | it's not even a comparison. Like of all things to go "America
           | bad, europe good" on, free speech is absolutely not it.
           | 
           | (Yes, the excuse is that Europe has a different definition of
           | free speech but the UAE would probably say the same. And even
           | then I don't see how the US would be uncivilized according to
           | the european definition of free speech lol)
        
             | asadlionpk wrote:
             | Try talking about Palestine in US?
        
               | mardifoufs wrote:
               | Are you implying you'd get arrested? I remember attending
               | a Palestine/BDS protest in NYC a few years ago and
               | nothing happening to me even as a canadian (muslim arab)
               | visitor.
               | 
               | I agree though that the restrictions on supporting BDS in
               | some parts of the US are completely absurd. And I always
               | find it funny that conservatives turn a completely blind
               | eye to those laws (especially since it's in Texas! Pretty
               | ironic). Yet the same laws often also apply in europe,
               | and they are usually a lot stricter so my original point
               | stands.
               | 
               | >Hervieu pointed to a recent ruling by the Court of
               | Cassation, France's court of final appeal, which upheld
               | the criminal convictions of 12 BDS activists who burst
               | into a supermarket in 2009 wearing "Boycott Israel"
               | shirts and handing out fliers that read, "Buying Israeli
               | products means legitimising crimes in Gaza."
               | 
               | >The legislation means that what BDS activists regarded
               | as political statements denouncing Israel's violations of
               | international law could be - and indeed were - treated by
               | French courts as an "incitement" to hatred.
               | 
               | https://www.france24.com/en/20160120-france-boycott-
               | israel-b...
        
               | schoen wrote:
               | Hmmm? The nearest Palestinian flag that I can think of on
               | display in my neighborhood is just a few blocks from my
               | house.
               | 
               | Do you mean that the U.S. treats Palestinian activists
               | poorly for visa purposes?
        
         | zeruch wrote:
         | There is a significant difference between snarky jabs at a
         | regime and open support of groups who have in the past (and
         | seek to again in the future) commit violent international
         | terrorism.
         | 
         | If you openly support those kinds of groups, you absolutely
         | SHOULD be stopped and interviewed/interrogated at the border.
         | The 'humor' part has to be evaluated (e.g. if someone is always
         | cracking weird jokes vs someone who suddenly pulls a Trumpian
         | rant-one liner and tries to pass if off as ha-ha when it's
         | really just the quiet part out loud).
        
         | mardifoufs wrote:
         | I don't know about the US but in some parts of Europe I'd agree
         | the result would be similar to what happened here:
         | 
         | >In 2013, a French mother was sentenced for "glorifying a
         | crime" after she allowed her son, named Jihad, to go to school
         | wearing a shirt that said "I am a bomb."
        
           | mdni007 wrote:
           | I wonder if the outcome would have been any different if the
           | shirt said "I am the bomb."
        
       | jmyeet wrote:
       | Seeing the headline my first immediate first guess was "oh he
       | insulted the royal family". The first sentence confirms it. There
       | are a number of places in the world that are like this. Qatar and
       | Thailand spring immediately to mind.
       | 
       | It can even go beyond the ruling family. There was a US
       | helicopter pilot (IIRC) who wrote something disparaging about his
       | Qatari employer on Facebook while in the United States who was
       | arrested upon his return to Qatar for it.
       | 
       | You have to be aware of the laws of whatever country you're going
       | to and respect them. Ignore them at your own peril. You don't
       | really get to complain it. Your choices are either to go and
       | follow and law and not go. Ignorance is no excuse.
       | 
       | I'd actually be way more wary of taking a job in some of these
       | countries. To leave Qatar, for eample, you need an exit visa.
       | Basically, your employer has to consent. This system is ripe for
       | abuse and has been abused many times. Employers use it to
       | withhold wages in exchange for giving their permission.
       | Personally, I would never work in such a place.
        
         | mieubrisse wrote:
         | Yep this. Feels like folks in this thread expect the
         | $general_western_ethos to apply everywhere, and then are
         | outraged when it doesn't. That's not to say we can't disagree
         | with the country's laws, but if you visit the country then it's
         | their land, their laws. Anything else would be crazy on account
         | of the inverse: someone from another country could do something
         | very illegal in the US and insist it's fine on account of being
         | allowed in their home country (marriage laws come to mind).
        
       | Barrin92 wrote:
       | >Another joke Dr. Kharrat tweeted urged the Iran-backed Houthi
       | rebels in Yemen to attack Dubai's Burj Khalifa, as reported by
       | French newspaper L'Orient Le Jour.
       | 
       | I'm gonna be honest how can anyone actually think tweeting that
       | is a good idea.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | asadlionpk wrote:
         | Agreed. Wouldn't US or France do the same if someone publicly
         | suggested similar violence for WTC or Eiffel?
        
           | bpodgursky wrote:
           | No (in the US).
           | 
           | You'd have your visa revoked and be deported in a heartbeat,
           | but you would not be charged or disappeared.
        
             | cycomanic wrote:
             | No mind you the US disappeared people for much less, be it
             | in Guantanamo or some of the black ops prison they had all
             | over the place in "collaborating countries" after 9/11.
             | 
             | There is a difference in scale and directness to this in
             | UAE though.
        
             | throwawayffffas wrote:
             | I am pretty sure in case they thought you were actually
             | connected to actual terrorists you would be with a bag over
             | your head and on your way to god knows where before you
             | could say extraordinary rendition.
             | 
             | The fact is countries detain people all the time for a
             | variety of reasons. I am not saying it's right, it just is.
             | 
             | In general it's a bad plan to put yourself in the hands of
             | your opponents, especially if they are not very big on
             | human rights and the rule of law.
             | 
             | Hostage diplomacy is very much a thing[1]. In general
             | though I would think for most westerners it would be rather
             | safe to visit the UAE, I think it's fairly aligned to the
             | west and unlikely to detain people just to make a fuss.
             | 
             | [1] https://tnsr.org/2021/11/caught-between-giants-hostage-
             | diplo...
        
             | asadlionpk wrote:
             | deported to guantanamo?
        
               | kjs3 wrote:
               | By all means provide us with the name of any individual
               | who was sent to Gitmo for a tweet.
        
           | livinginfear wrote:
           | No. France did nothing when thousands of people celebrated
           | Notre Dame burning. Throughout the Trump presidency making
           | threats against the president was pretty much the bread and
           | butter of Twitter.
        
             | rat9988 wrote:
             | This is utterly wrong.
        
             | mardifoufs wrote:
             | They did arrest some people who cheered for the beheading
             | of the high-school teacher though IIRC. France has pretty
             | harsh (and often used) laws regulating speech, and they are
             | ambiguous enough that they can be used pretty broadly.
             | 
             | Just an example:
             | 
             | >Thousands of people are convicted every year for "contempt
             | of public officials", a vaguely defined criminal offence
             | that law enforcement and judicial authorities have applied
             | in massive numbers to silence peaceful dissent.
             | 
             | https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2020/11/france-is-
             | not...
        
             | sonicggg wrote:
             | Yeah, France is probably not a good example. They never had
             | much backbone there. In 10 years, Paris may as well be
             | under Sharia law.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | someotherperson wrote:
         | From https://today.lorientlejour.com/article/1295901/lebanese-
         | doc...
         | 
         | > "The talk about this tweet is fake news," a source close to
         | the gynecologist and an MP of the Free Patriotic Movement, to
         | which Kharrat is allegedly close, told L'Orient-Le Jour on
         | condition of anonymity.
         | 
         | > He claimed that this tweet appeared after Kharrat's arrest,
         | saying that it was not published on the doctor's personal
         | account, but on that of an UAE national
         | 
         | It appears that the original tweet was faked.
        
       | 323 wrote:
       | There are soooo many UAE arrest stories. All the following are
       | non-muslim non-citizen people, so they can't claim any kind of
       | citizen or religious jurisdiction:
       | 
       | - A woman had a glass of wine while flying to UAE on UAE own
       | airline!!!!
       | 
       | https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/aug/11/woman-arrest...
       | 
       | - A guy accidentally touches the hip of another guy in a club
       | 
       | https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/oct/22/briton-jailed-...
       | 
       | - A non-married couple kissing in a restaurant
       | 
       | https://abcnews.go.com/International/TheLaw/kissing-couple-f...
       | 
       | And on and on and on.
       | 
       | Typically, if you are the citizen of a powerful country (US, UK,
       | EU, ...) they will let you off with a fine.
       | 
       | If you are the citizen of a less powerful country, like this
       | Lebanon doctor, you go to jail.
        
       | mytailorisrich wrote:
       | A small correction: L'Orient-Le Jour is a French-language
       | Lebanese newspaper, not a French newspaper.
        
       | brightball wrote:
       | Related: https://darknetdiaries.com/episode/47/
        
       | trhway wrote:
       | Time to make an app which would analyze your social media
       | presence and for any country would show what laws you have
       | violated and what punishment is waiting you where. Premium
       | version will be showing that "cost" before you're to post
       | something.
        
         | mytailorisrich wrote:
         | More fundamentally, why do people feel the need to Tweet or
         | share content publicly on social media?
        
           | quantified wrote:
           | Or even share their opinions on other people's posts in a
           | news aggregation site? ;-)
        
         | Imnimo wrote:
         | This is equally an app that allows those countries to search
         | people's social media presence to find reasons to arrest them!
         | :P
        
         | l33t2328 wrote:
         | That seems really hard. How would you identify a joke/insult vs
         | a neutral post vs praise?
        
           | asadlionpk wrote:
           | a bit of sentiment analysis and banned keywords.
        
         | toomuchtodo wrote:
         | The solution is not an app, but to avoid travel to these
         | countries in their entirety.
        
           | sundvor wrote:
           | What if you book a flight say between Australia and Europe.
           | After swapping planes in Hong Kong, on the way to Germany
           | there's an in flight emergency and the plane lands in Dubai.
           | 
           | And you had been previously critical of the regime.
           | 
           | Now what?
        
             | toomuchtodo wrote:
             | I admit that problem space expands if you are an exuberant
             | social media user who travels frequently and transits a
             | variety of jurisdictions and airspace. Realistically,
             | you're screwed if you said the wrong thing on social and
             | someplace you're traveling through wants to grab you (and
             | your country of citizenship doesn't want to expend the
             | effort to repatriate you from the hands of an authoritarian
             | regime).
             | 
             | My personal risk tolerance is that which I don't transit
             | the Middle East, ever, when traveling internationally, and
             | I have no social media usage or presence.
        
               | sundvor wrote:
               | Yep, that's my understanding as well. So, the wise thing
               | to do is likely to shut up - or at least be very, very
               | careful about certain topics.
               | 
               | There almost ought to be training in schools on
               | responsible use of the Internet, where topics such as
               | these are covered.
        
           | devoutsalsa wrote:
           | I hate to break it to you, but if a country want to lock you
           | up, they will find a way to do it. I'm an American & I'm more
           | afraid of being railroaded by the USA justice system than any
           | of the 32 other countries I've visited, including several
           | countries in the Middle East.
        
             | josephcsible wrote:
             | I think GP's point is that the UAE's government can't lock
             | you up while you're in the USA.
        
               | curiousgal wrote:
               | But the USA can lock you up anywhere in the world :p
        
             | [deleted]
        
           | FabHK wrote:
           | So, if you had a beer before you were 21, you should never
           | travel to the USA?
        
         | quantified wrote:
         | I'm sure a leaderboard would emerge in it. Have you left any
         | laws un-broken? Am I looking at fewer lashes than any of my
         | friends?
        
       | wangii wrote:
       | 2 top news about UAE in a row, is another mideast war coming?
        
       | oaiey wrote:
       | There is huge danger when criminal prosecution is automated. A
       | machine has no sense of proportion or tolerance. That is why we
       | allow police officers, prosecuters and judges to drop cases or
       | just cite people.
       | 
       | Not exactly sure how this doctor got arrested but if they
       | automatically scan feeds on arrival and then process them by
       | strict adherence to law, that is bad.
        
       | wara23arish wrote:
       | "The Houthis promise to bomb Burj Khalifa. My God, please let
       | this information be true,"
       | 
       | Is the tweet in question. It is worth noting that we're not sure
       | yet that the tweet is true.
       | 
       | But lets assume it is:
       | 
       | Do people really think that this tweet should be enough to
       | detain/arrest him? People in the US and in Lebanon (most of the
       | world too) make countless of posts vilifying and wishing
       | politicians dead.
       | 
       | The guy is a Christian doctor from Lebanon visiting for
       | tourism/work. He has no impact or connections on houthis.
       | 
       | I also promise there's countless of Lebanese people with similar
       | or worse tweets visiting UAE.
       | 
       | Putting my conspiracy hat on:
       | 
       | Elections are coming up in Lebanon, arresting this doctor will
       | make major news in Lebanon.
       | 
       | This will illicit two types of reaction there, people will be
       | cheering this person's arrest or will be cheering for a more
       | hardline stance and distancing against UAE.
       | 
       | There are parties that claim to have good connections to UAE
       | royalty (more like serfs) who will use this to say that this
       | wouldn't happen under their rule.
        
         | anonu wrote:
         | Dictatorships over time become police states. In Lebanon there
         | is a healthy history of political satire, thanks in part to the
         | fact that there is no real government. The doctors mistake was
         | thinking that any sort of "freedom" of speech he had in Lebanon
         | would be protected. Unfortunately not the case.
        
       | tradethedelta wrote:
       | If you live the sword, you'll die by the sword. So yes you should
       | be terrified of the UAE but you shouldn't have any illusions
       | about what this country is about.
       | 
       | Unfortunately, Lebanon is a complete basket case of a country. So
       | many well educated Lebanese are forced to find work in Gulf
       | countries with repressive regimes. They pay well to buy your
       | silence.
        
       | foobarian wrote:
       | As if anyone traveling to a place like that is not already
       | terrified.
        
         | paulpauper wrote:
         | been to uae many times. was never scared.
         | 
         | Taleb has been hyping this story for weeks.
         | 
         | The fact it gets so much media coverage suggests its rarity.
         | The odds of being detained in uae for social media posts is
         | very low. The UAE gets tons of tourism. Your odds of being
         | roughed up by police in America are higher.
        
           | Sirened wrote:
           | Depends on who you are I guess. If you're gay or trans,
           | you're in for a very bad time. While they probably won't
           | actually punish you (besides roughing you up and throwing you
           | in jail for a bit) if you're a foreigner from a large,
           | western country, you're still not exactly "fine".
        
             | yardstick wrote:
             | A gay couple I know frequently enjoy visiting Dubai. I
             | think so long as you keep the PDA in your hotel rooms you
             | are fine.
        
               | [deleted]
        
             | reaperducer wrote:
             | _If you 're gay or trans, you're in for a very bad time._
             | 
             | Does the UAE have some kind of gay-detector at the airport
             | you have to walk through when you arrive in the country?
             | 
             | How about you just keep it in your pants for the week or
             | two while you're there. How hard is that?
        
               | munk-a wrote:
               | Imagine for a moment that in the UAE it's illegal to not
               | keep your right hand on your left shoulder - sure you can
               | make it work and conform, but you're compromising a lot
               | of your natural behavior to fit in for no good reason.
               | That cost might be worth it to some people but it's
               | definitely a cost and it's an unreasonable one.
               | 
               | You'll need to be conscious of how you walk with your
               | partner, you'll need to carefully consider how it'll look
               | if you go out for a fancy dinner together and invent a
               | cover story to cloak your actions, you'll probably be
               | charged a gay-tax by being forced to rent separate hotel
               | rooms or at least a room with double beds in it.
               | 
               | I find the description of "just keep it in your pants" to
               | be offensively reductive.
        
               | zizee wrote:
               | The article is about someone who was arrested for social
               | media posts made years before arriving in the country.
               | "Keeping it in your pants for the week or two while you
               | are there" does not cut it.
        
           | amanaplanacanal wrote:
           | Most people were just fine in nazi Germany too.
        
         | dwater wrote:
         | It was the location of the movie "Sex and the City 2". The UAE
         | has put a huge effort into internationally branding themselves
         | as a luxury tourism destination. I imagine there are loads of
         | visitors who have no idea what the laws or legal system are
         | like.
        
           | walrus01 wrote:
           | google "UAE Sonapur" for some documented examples of the
           | near-slavery condition that some of the imported workers from
           | Pakistan, India, Bangladesh live in.
           | 
           | https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=uae+son.
           | ..
           | 
           | https://gulfnews.com/uae/sonapur-welcome-to-the-dark-
           | side-1....
        
             | dylan604 wrote:
             | I wonder how many of the people that can afford these trips
             | care about any of that?
        
               | mytailorisrich wrote:
               | From Europe, Dubai is a very common and rather cheap
               | destination these days. Return flights from London are
               | under PS300.
        
             | rosndo wrote:
             | "near-slavery" is not slavery, neither is it worse than the
             | places many of these workers come from.
        
               | cycomanic wrote:
               | You mean being treated like a slave, beaten sometimes
               | raped, have their password taken away etc. is not so bad
               | because, hey they still get paid, so not real slavery?
               | (and no that is not the same same conditions as in the
               | Philippines, Pakistan or Bangladesh)
        
             | Aspos wrote:
             | What do you think the alternatives should be? Should Indian
             | and Pakistani companies pay more to Indian and Pakistani
             | workers they bring to Dubai? Should they leave them in
             | India and let them work in even worse conditions? Who do
             | you think should dictate how much more Indian companies
             | should pay Indian laborers which btw already are getting
             | way more than they can get at home?
             | 
             | Many people crying about "slavery in Dubai" don't fully
             | understand what slavery is and how Dubai works. What I am
             | suggesting here, is that, perhaps, this notion is just a
             | second-hand opinion you should consider changing your mind
             | about. If you are open to it, that is.
        
               | rosndo wrote:
               | Yep, it's sort of hilarious to see us rich Westerners
               | criticizing work conditions in Dubai while our countries
               | simply make it impossible for these same people to get
               | visas to work in the West.
               | 
               | UAE is doing more to improve the lives of these people
               | than the West ever has, even if it doesn't look all that
               | pretty. It's very unfortunate that photos of denied visa
               | applications will never evoke the same response.
        
               | lotsofpulp wrote:
               | Mind boggling that someone could equate slavery via
               | confiscation of passports to denying people immigration
               | visas.
        
               | rosndo wrote:
               | If someone confiscates your passport in Dubai you can
               | have it back within 24 hours by just calling MOHRE at
               | 80060.
               | 
               | It is illegal to do this, enforcement is pretty
               | aggressive.
               | 
               | As to denial of visas? At least the UAE offers these
               | people a chance at a better life, Western countries give
               | them nothing. A slight QOL improvement is much better
               | than none.
        
               | munk-a wrote:
               | If it's illegal to confiscate passports in Dubai why is
               | it so widespread and commonplace? Is it like smoking MJ
               | in most states - it's "illegal" but unless cops want a
               | reason to arrest you they'll just ignore you and keep on
               | driving?
        
               | rosndo wrote:
               | It's not nearly as widespread in 2022 as you might like
               | to think.
               | 
               | To get a low-skilled work visa in Dubai you have to sit
               | through an hour long lecture explaining these rights,
               | including what to do if your employer takes your
               | passport.
               | 
               | You are advised to not give your passport to your
               | employer except to have your visa stamped, and then
               | immediately demand it back.
               | 
               | This country is modernizing very rapidly, things that
               | were true 5 years ago are often not true anymore.
        
               | munk-a wrote:
               | My understanding of the situation on the ground might be
               | a bit out of date then, a lot of my information about
               | Dubai comes from pre-pandemic.
        
               | rdtwo wrote:
               | They trick the workers and then enslave then. Often then
               | employer withholds and does not pay wages. It's not an
               | opportunity to have a better life if they don't actually
               | get paid
        
               | munk-a wrote:
               | An affluent country like Dubai could afford to treat
               | these workers a lot better locally than they may be
               | treated in their homelands.
               | 
               | I reject the premise that we live in a world of
               | unregulated capitalism where free-markets force us all to
               | engage in a race to the bottom when it comes to working
               | conditions, and the modern world also rejects that with a
               | plethora of examples: how can US workers who demand
               | trivial things like sane working hours and health care
               | possibly compete with people overseas who can do the same
               | work while being paid peanuts - it's because we as a
               | society can demand that. The people of the UAE could
               | similarly demand that labourers be paid better and
               | receive better treatment - it's not an unavoidable
               | economic outcome that near slavery exists, it's a choice.
        
               | viraptor wrote:
               | We can definitely say people should not work like slaves
               | in Dubai and that it would be great if the conditions
               | were better in their original countries.
               | 
               | I'm drawing the line at the confiscated passports, threat
               | of jail and terrible living conditions - if you can't
               | safely leave your work, you're a slave. It doesn't matter
               | what the alternative at your home is.
        
               | lovich wrote:
               | The slavery calls are less about the low wages and more
               | about things like workers having their passports
               | confiscated or being abused/killed by their employers.
               | 
               | But what do I know? Maybe because I'm in America I can't
               | call being forced to work and unable to leave slavery
               | cause it's a second hand opinion. -\\_(tsu)_/-
        
               | FabHK wrote:
               | I agree that many workers go to the UAE (and Saudi Arabia
               | and other places) because they can get a much better deal
               | there than they could get at home.
               | 
               | However, it is also true that too many of those migrant
               | workers are then treated atrociously, with little legal
               | recourse, and with a casual chauvinism and racism that
               | far exceeds what is often labeled "racism" in progressive
               | societies.
               | 
               | And that is particularly grating given that those oil-
               | rich countries could afford not only fancy buildings and
               | museums, but also decent labour standards.
               | 
               | > Should Indian and Pakistani companies pay more to
               | Indian and Pakistani workers they bring to Dubai?
               | 
               | Yes indeed.
               | 
               | > Who do you think should dictate how much more Indian
               | companies should pay [...]?
               | 
               | As usual, the government of the country they operate in.
               | In this case, the UAE governments. It would probably mean
               | somewhat more expensive buildings for the UAE, and
               | somewhat less profits for said Indian and Pakistani
               | companies.
        
               | apohn wrote:
               | I know you're going to get downvoted to hell, but I'm
               | going to give you an upvote.
               | 
               | Many people who have enough leisure time to spend on HN
               | and Reddit just don't understand the conditions many
               | people grow up in. Not just India and Pakistan, but
               | Philippines, Indonesia, and all the countries where you
               | see economic migrants to any gulf country. Imagine
               | growing up in unbelievable poverty with no educational
               | opportunities or support, and with the external and
               | internal pressure to financially support your siblings,
               | parents, family and so they can survive and not just
               | repeat the cycle you were born into.
               | 
               | It's an insane situation, and the only solution humans
               | seem to have come up with is to encourage people with
               | money buy stuff that's made by people who cannot afford
               | that same stuff. In one country it's tall buildings, in
               | another it's phones and t-shirts.
        
               | munk-a wrote:
               | I mean - that's sort of the ultra-capitalist creed right?
               | It's impossible for us to solve poverty in any manner
               | other than exporting work to make cheap t-shirts and
               | since slavery is close to the same level of suffering it
               | must be alright?
               | 
               | Global wealth inequality issues are certainly not easy to
               | solve, but we don't just need to shrug and say "I guess
               | that's the way the world needs to work" - there is an
               | extreme amount of excess in western countries, we've got
               | _several_ people who have literally nothing better to do
               | with their money than launch private rockets into space
               | for PR so I don 't think it's fair to say "it's near-
               | slavery or t-shirts".
               | 
               | As the wealthiest nation on earth and the never-sated
               | consumer that drives most of the world's economy America
               | is in a position where it can demand better working
               | conditions, it can say t-shirts at walmart can't
               | reasonably cost 5$... but it is choosing not to do so.
               | And, with all that said, the UAE in it's (hopefully now
               | in the past) passport seizing days was still far worse.
        
           | steve_coral wrote:
           | I mean, in Sex and the City 2 the ladies get deported from
           | the country due to a public display of affection. If you
           | actually watched the movie you'd realize its a damning
           | cinematic critique with a witty script and stellar acting.
        
           | dillondoyle wrote:
           | I can't find it.. but i read an article last week that went
           | through how these oppressive governments are using sports
           | (and their money) to build up their image. Russia did it
           | before their first invasion. China did it twice with the
           | olympics.
           | 
           | the use of sports and FIFA is an example of this.
           | 
           | *qatar not uae, is the absolute worst place to hold a giant
           | soccer tournament. They have to use special AC units inside
           | giant stadiums (built on deaths of lots of migrant workers)
           | because it's a hot desert. But they claim they are still
           | 'green'
           | 
           | Saudi using art is an example too. They paid a ton of money
           | to use the name Louvre even though their museum has nothing
           | to do with the institution. ironically he refused to loan his
           | $450 million 'da vinci' to the real museum. Evidently sitting
           | on a yacht hidden because good chance it's not by da vinci's
           | hand.
           | 
           | As a queer person who loves to travel (or did before covid)
           | there are some countries i just refuse to visit, despite the
           | awesome cultural heritage. I know that citizens don't always
           | necessarily agree, but many do. And I just can't support the
           | expansion of authoritarianism - and potentially risk my life.
        
             | Mikeb85 wrote:
             | > UAE is the absolute worst place to hold a giant soccer
             | tournament. They have to use special AC units inside giant
             | stadiums (built on deaths of lots of migrant workers)
             | 
             | Ummm, Qatar isn't UAE...
        
               | dillondoyle wrote:
               | fixed!
        
               | [deleted]
        
             | throwaway1777 wrote:
             | Qatar is hosting the World Cup not UAE. UAE does host some
             | sporting events though, notably golf and f1.
        
               | dillondoyle wrote:
               | You're right sorry i'll change
        
           | apohn wrote:
           | >It was the location of the movie "Sex and the City 2".
           | 
           | It wasn't filmed there. It was filmed in Morocco and they
           | just said it took place in Abu Dhabi. The UAE government said
           | they couldn't film there.
           | 
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_and_the_City_2#Filming
           | 
           | It might seem like a random topic for me to know, but I lived
           | in UAE for a portion of my life and the government is pretty
           | mindful of having their name associated with some of the
           | themes you'd typically see with that particular TV series. So
           | I was quite surprised when they claimed it was Abu Dhabi, and
           | not surprised that they actually filmed it elsewhere.
        
             | dboreham wrote:
             | I always assumed it was a paid product placement spot.
        
             | Narishma wrote:
             | Any vaguely middle-eastern-looking location you see in a
             | movie or TV show was very likely shot in Morocco,
             | especially in recent decades.
             | 
             | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_foreign_films_shot_in
             | _...
        
           | phphphphp wrote:
           | That's interesting: here in the UK, there's often major news
           | stories about very punitive actions taken against tourists in
           | Dubai for things like drinking in public or having sex on a
           | beach. I'd guess a lot of people "know" that the system is
           | strict but are naive enough to believe it won't apply to them
           | for whatever reason.
        
             | code_duck wrote:
             | Yeah, I am basically horrified about everything about the
             | idea of visiting the UAE, other than that they have
             | interesting cities and nice beaches. I would never consider
             | taking a vacation there.
        
             | zizee wrote:
             | Hopefully these news stories will help educate people about
             | the risks involved with travel to certain countries.
        
           | HL33tibCe7 wrote:
           | Relatedly, the sheer number of YouTube adverts for Qatar I've
           | had recently... the adverts have nice happy jingly music and
           | cute little avatars exploring Qatar's filthy lucre ^H^H^H-uh
           | I mean beautiful buildings, shopping centers, pools and the
           | like. Basically trying to "adwash" their slavery.
        
             | Scoundreller wrote:
             | Keep in mind GOOG gets half that money. 100% if it's on my
             | videos they departnered me from because I didn't meet their
             | new goalpost of 1000 subs but then later decided it's still
             | acceptable puts ads on. Asshats.
             | 
             | https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/2475463?hl=en
        
         | qiskit wrote:
         | UAE is a fast growing international hub. Nobody is terrified.
         | No more than people are terrified of traveling to germany
         | because tourists get arrested for silly nonsense like a nazi
         | salute or thailand because tourists get arrested insulting the
         | royals or indonesia because tourists get arrested for drugs.
         | 
         | Not saying I agree with anyone getting arrested for silly
         | nonsense. But for 99% of the travelers, it doesn't matter.
        
         | politelemon wrote:
         | I was already terrified based on the number of stories
         | regarding poppy seeds from bagels leading to imprisonment.
        
           | lotsofpulp wrote:
           | You should also be terrified by the fact that one of the
           | royals, Issa bin Zayed Al Nahyan, is seen on video torturing
           | a business partner, and suffered no repercussions after the
           | video came out in 2009.
           | 
           | https://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=7402099
           | 
           | Of course, the torture victim and his brother who released
           | the video were convicted by UAE courts.
        
             | tacomonstrous wrote:
             | My god this was a horrifying read.
        
       | mieubrisse wrote:
       | I lived in the UAE for 3 years, and think the reality is more
       | complicated than the article's "every visitor to the UAE should
       | be terrified" makes it out to be.
       | 
       | Is the UAE a dictatorship? Absolutely - the newspaper is
       | censored, and publicly challenging or speaking ill of the
       | government is a Bad Idea that everyone knows not to do.
       | 
       | Is it the autocratic dystopia that the article makes it out to
       | be? Also no; I didn't have any problems during my time there, nor
       | did any friends that I know of (including three gay friends). The
       | UAE is basically caught between both traditional Muslim and
       | Western democratic influences, and it's not strictly one or the
       | other. As long as you're not challenging the government or doing
       | anything Muslims would consider bad taste (e.g. public PDA),
       | you're generally left alone.
       | 
       | Which meant I was surprised to learn about the jailing on account
       | of a joke about the name "Nahyan", until I saw, "Another joke Dr.
       | Kharrat tweeted urged the Iran-backed Houthi rebels in Yemen to
       | attack Dubai's Burj Khalifa".
       | 
       | Iran and the UAE _really_ don't like each other, and the UAE
       | maintains a strong security state at least in part because of it.
       | Urging a Houthi attack on the Burj Khalifa would be taken very
       | seriously, and I'd surmise 1) he ended up on a watchlist when he
       | first made it and 2) the UAE is now using him as political
       | pressure on Lebanon.
       | 
       | To be clear, I'm not at all condoning the UAE's actions here as
       | they don't align with my personal values. That said, I'm not
       | surprised: the UAE takes perceived threats to the state very
       | seriously and doesn't claim to allow free speech, so Kharrat was
       | doing a (from an Emirati perspective) Very Bad Thing that most
       | visitors to the UAE aren't likely to.
        
       | klyrs wrote:
       | Doesn't worry me a bit. I'd already be looking at 2 years in
       | prison just for being gay. But then, there's a whole bunch of the
       | world that I wouldn't travel to.
       | 
       | https://www.forbes.com/sites/laurabegleybloom/2021/03/23/cri...
        
         | fortran77 wrote:
        
           | bitexploder wrote:
           | Ehh, ya know, that is just a polarizing characterization.
           | Most people just don't agree with what is happening to them.
           | It does not mean most of those people that support their
           | freedom and right from persecution would travel there or that
           | it supports their views directly. Genocide isn't cool, ya
           | know. Freedom limiting social systems aren't either, but that
           | is a separate issue.
        
           | user- wrote:
           | Unless you're trying to be obtuse, it shouldn't be too hard
           | for you to understand why.
           | 
           | Just because a culture or people are not perfect doesn't
           | justify their oppression.
        
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