[HN Gopher] The Learjet era ends with a final delivery
___________________________________________________________________
The Learjet era ends with a final delivery
Author : hindsightbias
Score : 83 points
Date : 2022-04-18 16:51 UTC (6 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.flyingmag.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.flyingmag.com)
| belter wrote:
| The History of LearJet: https://youtu.be/x_VVyx9GXFo
| cbsmith wrote:
| I'm curious why the line was retired, as the brand recognition is
| still so strong.
| mumblemumble wrote:
| I would guess the brand recognition is more driven by Microsoft
| Flight Simulator than popularity among its target market? The
| Source of All Truth suggests that the LearJet 70/75 hasn't been
| selling nearly as well as some of its competitors.
| WalterBright wrote:
| Story time: An engineer colleague of mine at Boeing working on
| flight controls always talked about how great Learjets were, and
| how he liked working on them. I finally asked him, "if you like
| Learjet so much, why are you here working for Boeing?"
|
| He replied: "I told Bill Lear he was an asshole."
| smilespray wrote:
| Reminds me of the time I spoke to Hakon Wium Lie and said "you
| should let me redo Opera's GUI. Who designed this crap?"
|
| He replied "I did."
|
| Never got that gig.
| criddell wrote:
| > He is also known for [...] developing the technology that made
| it possible to reduce the size of electronics
|
| What technology is that?
| mannykannot wrote:
| This is based on something I read quite a few years ago, but
| IIRC, as a hands-on partner in Motorola (in its early days, he
| was its sole circuit designer) he led it into being an early
| adopter of transistors and other semiconductor devices. (If
| this is the basis for the quoted passage in the article then it
| is arguably misleading, but using transistors to make compact
| electronic devices required innovations in circuit design, and,
| in general, turning new technology into useful products
| requires vision and innovation.)
| eganist wrote:
| Wikipedia suggests it's the use of Litz wire rather than solid
| wire in the making of radio tuning coils.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Lear#Radio_engineer
| joeamroo wrote:
| Go 'n ride the lear jet, baby. Go 'n ride the lear jet
| kirenida wrote:
| I'm in the high-fidelity first class travelling set
|
| You know, I think I need a Lear jet
| cascom wrote:
| I think the interesting element is what it says about the market
| for private jets in that there isn't a perceived market for light
| jets, but that the super-midsized to large cabin+ is still very
| viable, any thoughts on what's driving that? Interest rates,
| Engine efficiency, fractional ownership, customer preference?
| tnorthcutt wrote:
| Not totally sure what you mean by "there isn't a perceived
| market for light jets", but both Honda and Cirrus produce quite
| popular light jets.
| cascom wrote:
| From a taxonomy standpoint, I think those are very light
| jets.
|
| To be clear, I'm not saying the light jet market is dead or
| anything definitive like that, but the fact that Bombardier
| is shutting down their well established light jet offering
| would seem to indicate they don't have a rosy outlook for the
| segment.
| zerkten wrote:
| Does anyone know of Learjet military use? I came across usage as
| a decoy in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Sheffield_(D80).
| buildsjets wrote:
| The original Learjet's wings and landing gear were derived from
| a military fighter aircraft, the Swiss FFA-P16.
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FFA_P-16
| joshjdr wrote:
| >Lear started designing a private jet in the 1950s. Jet
| aircraft were new technology, and there were many designs
| that never made it off the drawing board. That changed when
| Lear opted to adapt a Swiss ground-attack fighter, the FFA
| P-16, that had never been built.
|
| Source: Article
| sokoloff wrote:
| The C-21 is the military designation for their version of the
| Lear 35A.
|
| https://www.military.com/equipment/c-21a
| bombcar wrote:
| I believe customs flew them for awhile too.
| mysterydip wrote:
| I remember kid me first discovering the Learjet in a flight
| simulator in the 90s. I dreamed of one day being a pilot or
| having my own airline with a fleet of them. Sad to see them go.
| pseudostem wrote:
| I might be totally wrong, but was it "press F8 for flaps"
| before landing? MS flight simulator on 8 floppies was
| brilliant.
| anyfoo wrote:
| Immediately thought of that as well. I still play MSFS4 from
| time to time in dosbox. I sat down with dosbox's internal
| debugger one day and patched the .EXE so that it properly
| works with joysticks, and now use a Bluetooth game pad to fly
| the Learjet from SFO over the Golden Gate Bridge to Seattle
| navigating via radio from VOR to VOR every now and then.
|
| There's just something about this "light" simulation. I can
| just go for a "simple fly in a Learjet" (hah) while doing
| other stuff.
| paulmd wrote:
| That sounds useful. If this isn't something you found
| elsewhere, please document what you did and put it up in a
| github gist or a pastebin or something!
| anyfoo wrote:
| Sure, it was just a small thing pertaining to gamepads.
| If you have joysticks with an extra throttle control you
| can likely ignore it.
|
| FS4 had joystick support for the analogue joysticks of
| the time already, and dosbox properly emulates those. But
| the problem I ran into is the limited configuration
| options for the joysticks:
|
| * "Joystick A" controls the yoke.
|
| * "Joystick B" controls either trottle+brakes, or
| throttle+rudder.
|
| Again this should be fine if you actually have a physical
| throttle control and can split up the two axes to
| different joysticks (as you're not likely to actually
| have throttle and rudder on the same joystick), which
| dosbox/dosbox-x should be able to do.
|
| But for this "quick flying", I'm often on my laptop and
| using a Bluetooth gamepad with two analogue thumb sticks:
| https://www.8bitdo.com/sn30-pro-g-classic-or-sn30-pro-sn/
|
| In that case, having the throttle forcibly on any thumb
| stick axis is terrible: Throttle adjustments are done
| comparatively rarely, so the self-returning nature of a
| thumb stick means that you're constantly having to hold
| the axis in the same position with your thumb. In
| addition, typically one stick will be fully occupied by
| the yoke, so the other stick will have to be throttle
| _and_ rudder, which is just unnatural and weird.
|
| I put throttle increase/decrease on buttons instead (not
| ideal, but works out pretty well), but unless you turn
| off "Joystick B" entirely, which implies also losing
| rudder control, FS4 can't be made to ignore the throttle
| axis, and will override the throttle setting with
| whatever the current value of the axis is. Mapping the
| axis to "nothing" in dosbox does not help, since that
| will just keep the throttle at 0.
|
| So I spent half an hour or so dumping memory state,
| diffing, and single-stepping through the assembly, just
| so that I could patch out the instructions that set the
| throttle value from joystick input with NOPs, effectively
| ignoring it.
|
| To do that, patch out the bytes from 0x776c to 0x7771
| (inclusive) to be 0x90 (a NOP) in FS4.EXE. This is for
| V4.0b of FS4 specifically, but if there is a reason to
| use an earlier version I'm not aware of it.
| mysterydip wrote:
| Pretty sure it was MS flight sim, but not sure which version
| anymore
| LeftHandPath wrote:
| There's still a possibility of that. The company I work for has
| a small fleet of legacy-model Learjets for both business and
| certification use.
| tomatowurst wrote:
| Still fond memories of landing in O'hare airport at dusk with
| the dim orange light illuminating the dashboard with looping
| jet sounds.
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eIhey40rjks&t=1787s
| holoduke wrote:
| I used to play an even older version.
| https://youtu.be/JhTM1dYu7HA The Learjet was so cool and
| fast.
| lesgobrandon wrote:
| ilrwbwrkhv wrote:
| I have flown in two of these planes. Absolutely fascinating and
| it's sad they are no longer being produced.
| sokoloff wrote:
| I've only been a passenger on a private jet once: a lightly
| loaded Lear 60. The takeoff was amazing; there was a fairly
| high level of initial acceleration and the acceleration got
| stronger and stronger as the airspeed built on the runway. I
| went up to the cockpit door early in the climb and we were
| climbing at over 5K feet per minute. It was obvious that the
| aircraft was not short on engine power. :)
|
| 611mi (641mi flown) in 1h09m for an average speed of 531mph
| direct (557mph/485 knots as flown). Peak climb rate per
| flightaware (slightly noisy): 5781 fpm.
| Terry_Roll wrote:
| I've flown with these guys, all ex RAF Red Arrow Pilots,
| didnt need a sick bag! https://theblades.com/corporate-and-
| private-events/
|
| Thing is, if you have the gift of the gab get into politics
| and then you have the use of various taxpayer funded aircraft
| at your disposal, or make it rich, or be a head of state!
| zabzonk wrote:
| "Then you flew your lear jet up to Nova Scotia To see the total
| eclipse of the sun"
|
| Carly Simon - "you're so vain".
|
| Edit: Rather strange downvotes? I was intending on illustrating
| how the Lear Jet had slipped into our culture.
| TedDoesntTalk wrote:
| Also mentioned in the Pink Floyd song "Money":
|
| "I'm in the high-fidelity first-class traveling set and I think
| I need a Learjet"
| bombcar wrote:
| You're so vain you probably think this song is about you ...
|
| The song contains a parse error in the lyrics, causing half of
| HN to blue screen.
| a4isms wrote:
| > Aircraft aren't the only thing [Bill] Lear invented. He is also
| known for developing the 8-track cartridge audio tape
|
| Did they ever ship a Learjet with an 8-track system for playing
| music in-flight? Wikipedia's entry doesn't mention using it in
| aviation, just home audio and--of course--automobiles:
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/8-track_tape
| scoopertrooper wrote:
| I imagine they'd be rockin' reel-to-reels.
| starwind wrote:
| Whenever I'm talking to a pilot who flies a Lear I refuse to
| pronounce the company name as anything other than "Bomb-ba-deer"
| cause I think it sounds super cool and I can't pronounce anything
| vaguely French
| tomatowurst wrote:
| I see many learjets on sale, do you think its safe to purchase a
| jet made in the late 90s, early 00s? seems to be selling at huge
| discounts.
| sokoloff wrote:
| Some of the Lear models don't meet noise regulations and need
| modifications to continue to be used.
|
| But in general, older aircraft are safe. (For years, I flew a
| 1967 C182 piston single.)
|
| Thirsty jets are selling at a discount in times when oil is
| expensive. Pre-COVID, you could buy an airworthy Cessna
| Citation for basically the value of the remaining time on the
| engines. They got to be worth more after that for a couple of
| reasons, but the cost of buying the airplane is not the last of
| your spending in the airplane world and especially not in the
| jet world.
|
| I could easily afford to _buy_ a clapped-out legacy Citation. I
| could not afford to _feed and maintain_ a legacy Citation. It
| might be similar to horses in that regard, just with extra
| zeroes.
| dijonman2 wrote:
| Proper maintenance and periodic inspections lead to the
| eventual replacement of all parts before their failure sans the
| airframe, when it is typically cheaper to buy a new aircraft.
|
| You could be seeing such an airplane for sale.
| buildsjets wrote:
| This is typically because they have timed out engines, are due
| for major inspections, or require expensive mandatory
| modifications such as RVSM or hushkits. That said, I know
| someone who purchased an original Lear 24 in the low 6 figures
| that needed everything. He spent more than 1M, but less than 2M
| on overhauled and hushkitted engines, overhauling and
| refinishing the airframe, major avionics update including ADS-B
| and RVSM, and other upgrades, and now had a machine that can
| FAR outperform an Eclipse 550 at lower cost.
| https://www.newunitedgoderich.com/projects/bombardier-learje...
| Miserlou57 wrote:
| I was a kid in the 90s Los Angeles, and being somewhat
| familiar with jets from kids books and MSFS, is it me or does
| anyone else seem to remember the Learjets in the air at the
| time being the absolutely loudest sound they've ever heard?
| tomatowurst wrote:
| oh wow that thing is made in the 1966!!!! that's absolutely
| insane
|
| I guess the overhaul is roughly the same regardless of the
| year? There's a 1981 learjet that is roughly 600k and I see
| another one from 1994 at 700k. I guess you would just
| discount this as the airframe price?
|
| so cool that somebody out there has done this.
| addaon wrote:
| A properly maintained aircraft is safe at any age. However,
| some aircraft have fatigue life limits on either the airframe
| as a whole or parts that are cost-prohibitive to replace on an
| old aircraft, such as wing spars. Talk to your (future)
| mechanic, who can look up ADs (airworthiness directives) and
| other limitations.
|
| Do make sure you look into operating costs (maintenance,
| insurance, fuel, etc -- and some of these are fixed costs even
| if the aircraft hardly flies at all) before you buy something!
| chipsa wrote:
| /me looks at B-52, currently planned to be used until they're
| 100...
| throwawayboise wrote:
| ... thanks to a basically unlimited budget for maintenance.
| FredPret wrote:
| If the aircraft gets old enough it ends up like the Learjet
| of Theseus
| CPLX wrote:
| Pretty much all airplanes fit that description. I guess not
| literally since the core fuselage is usually continuous but
| just about every moving part.
| bombcar wrote:
| A jet is a hole in the air you throw money into.
|
| The purchase price is just the start.
| Beldin wrote:
| This reminds me of a statement about yachting, roughly: if
| you want a cheaper hobby, you could always learn to enjoy
| burning $100 bills.
| function_seven wrote:
| I heard it as: "If you're considering buying a boat, step
| into the shower, turn the water on, and stuff $100 bills
| down the drain while you get drenched. Same experience."
| TedDoesntTalk wrote:
| Lear also made great mainframe terminals in the 1970s.
| throwawayboise wrote:
| Was that the same company? Never knew that....
| TedDoesntTalk wrote:
| I don't know if it was the same corporate entity, but Bill
| Lear was behind both of them.
| 88840-8855 wrote:
| As a middle class person who would never have the chance to fly
| those things, i don't care.
|
| Used to work at a airport for some time and work on Learjets,
| doing maintenance. Nice planes for sure, but customers are not
| the folks i want to exist.
|
| I don't like ultra rich people.
| busterarm wrote:
| One of the best perks of Gulfstream was being shuttled between
| sites on the company's own planes.
| oneoff786 wrote:
| They don't like you either
| technothrasher wrote:
| This little one's not worth the effort. Now let me get you
| something.
| shockeychap wrote:
| This just sounds envious and resentful.
| 88840-8855 wrote:
| yes, it is. I'm not hiding it. those are human emotions.
| [deleted]
| mumblemumble wrote:
| I used to work for a company that had a corporate jet as a cost
| saving measure. They were located at a smaller market where
| commercial flights tended to be expensive, involve multiple
| hops, and require extra days of travel (and therefore hotel
| bills) in order to make schedules line up. It didn't make sense
| to fly a single person, of course, but if there were several
| people who needed to go to the same place at the same time,
| flying the corporate jet was often the less expensive way to
| go.
|
| I wouldn't advise being too envious, if I were you. It was
| noisy and cramped. You couldn't really stand up to stretch your
| legs. And you had to carefully watch how much you drank due to
| the lack of decent bathroom accommodations. Many of my
| colleagues loved it, mostly for the "we're in a private jet!"
| factor, and I suppose a larger plane might be more comfortable,
| but, at least as far as that one was concerned, I personally
| preferred flying commercial.
| thriftwy wrote:
| Yandex founders rode business jets when preparing for IPO. They
| are/were nice guys. Segalovich sometimes played freesbie with
| us devs in the cloister.
| beaned wrote:
| There are casual millionaires everywhere. People only notice
| the ones who prefer to stand out, who are probably the
| minority.
| usrusr wrote:
| The insurance that paid my Learjet ambulance ride after an
| accident in a neighboring country goes for a single digit rate
| (EUR), per year. I don't consider myself ultra rich.
| mmaunder wrote:
| Friend was running overland trucks in Southern Africa and
| same deal - a client almost lost his arm due to a croc attack
| and they broke out the jet to evacuate him to a hospital.
| [deleted]
| mmaunder wrote:
| If you live in the USA you're ultra wealthy compared to middle
| class people in many countries. And surprise - they'll probably
| really like you when they meet you, and not just because you
| have electricity, sanitation and running water.
| dotancohen wrote:
| And the roads.
| candlemas wrote:
| John Lear, Bill Lear's son, died last month. He was an
| interesting guy. Told a lot of stories about UFOs and aliens and
| soul catchers on the moon.
| user3939382 wrote:
| I've spent many hours listening to his interviews on Art Bell,
| I didn't know he passed away. That's really sad that they're
| both gone :(
___________________________________________________________________
(page generated 2022-04-18 23:00 UTC)