[HN Gopher] Tipy - One Hand Keyboard
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       Tipy - One Hand Keyboard
        
       Author : pseingatl
       Score  : 75 points
       Date   : 2022-04-16 08:59 UTC (14 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (tipykeyboard.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (tipykeyboard.com)
        
       | CarVac wrote:
       | I tried one-handed layouts at one point out of curiosity and I
       | found my one-handed typing speed on a normal QWERTY keyboard to
       | be better.
        
       | pseingatl wrote:
       | Someone lost their arm and in rehab was taught how to use a one-
       | handed keyboard, made by this company. I wonder what kind of
       | speeds can be reached.
        
       | infinity_user wrote:
       | I love the idea and product. I would have bought one.... BUT then
       | I saw the price...
       | 
       | 350 EUR???? WTF ????
       | 
       | Excluding VAT and shipping ??
       | 
       | Who the fuck would want to fork 500 EUR for a damn keyboard ?
       | 
       | What size is the market at that price ? This is ridiculous.
       | 
       | Is there any cheaper alternative to this ?
       | 
       | No fucking way that I spend that much cash for an unproven
       | keyboard
        
       | aktuel wrote:
        
       | traceroute66 wrote:
       | These one handed keyboards come and go like the seasons but they
       | never catch on.
       | 
       | FrogPad[1] was another example from recent history.
       | 
       | [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FrogPad
        
       | yhoneycomb wrote:
       | This product is uniquely appealing to me because as a kid, I
       | actually used to type almost completely with one hand at 40 wpm
       | using my right hand solely for the backspace, enter, shift, and
       | space keys. The only reason I stopped and learned how to use both
       | hands to type was that my left hand started getting arthritis-
       | like symptoms as a 10th grader.
       | 
       | Unfortunately, my hand hurts just looking at the example in the
       | promotional video I found. I don't see how you could hold your
       | hand up at that angle like that and not end up straining it.
       | However, I'd love to be wrong.
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | lucb1e wrote:
       | Looks like the combined up/down arrow key is here to stay :/
       | though this is at least one product where I can actually see the
       | logic, even if I don't like it.
        
       | politelemon wrote:
       | What an interesting concept. If this proves itself and takes off,
       | I wonder if there could be a version of this with mechanical
       | keys.
       | 
       | There's a video here showing someone typing using this keyboard.
       | It feels a bit slow?
       | 
       | https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=q4OEKKMPH48
        
         | telesilla wrote:
         | Looks like the person is training in that video. I'd assume
         | after some period of time, you could type as fast as on the
         | regular two hander.
        
         | JohnTHaller wrote:
         | I think it would need to be a _very_ low-profile low-weight
         | mechanical key switch and cap combo for it to feasible in this
         | setup. Scissor switches seem more ideal for this sort of thing
         | layout-wise. And I 'm typing this from my GMMK with Glorious
         | Panda switches and thicker XDA profile PBT keycaps.
        
       | sandworm101 wrote:
       | I new a guy in school with only one hand. He used the same
       | keyboard at home as everyone else. Like most of us, he had taught
       | himself to type as a kid and felt no need for special
       | adaptations. Just like 99% of two-handed people, he would not
       | want to invest the time re-learning how to type for a bespoke
       | keyboard layout that won't always be available.
        
       | goosedragons wrote:
       | It's a rather unusual layout. Matias makes an even more expensive
       | one handed keyboard that's essentially half a keyboard and then
       | holding space lets you type the other half. I'm not sure why it's
       | still so damn expensive.
        
         | rzzzt wrote:
         | Randall Munroe has a write-up on a mirrored layout where Caps
         | Lock is the modifier key for the right half:
         | https://blog.xkcd.com/2007/08/14/mirrorboard-a-one-handed-ke...
        
           | mitchs wrote:
           | I don't like the idea of using caps lock frequently as a
           | modifier. To me a frequently used modifier should either be
           | on a thumb or on the opposite hand.
           | 
           | I recently started trying to learn a one handed layout to
           | give my injured right wrist some rest and have been
           | reasonably happy with the space bar doing double duty. (Tap
           | is space and hold is flip.) Though this isn't something that
           | most keyboards can be configured to do.
           | 
           | So far I'd say the flip style is OKish to learn, but I'm
           | still at a tiny fraction of my normal speed. It will take a
           | lot of dedicated practice for me to be anywhere near as fast.
        
           | TinyBig wrote:
           | This is a really good approach if you can already touch-type.
           | I found I was able to type one handed immediately though it
           | took some thinking and it became second nature after a few
           | weeks. The ease of adapting a regular keyboard to one handed
           | typing makes it very hard for me to wrap my head around
           | learning a completely new layout.
        
       | wellthisisgreat wrote:
       | I am, in fact, slowly progressing towards this concept on my own
       | with a split keyboard (Quefrency / Sinc).
       | 
       | I am doing it so I don't have to move the right hand off the
       | mouse, or put the coffee cup down or just feel like supporting my
       | chin with the right hand while I am reading.
       | 
       | What I did so far that helped with productivity was:
       | 
       | 1. Map the Capslock to activate 2nd layer when held.
       | 
       | On the second layer then:
       | 
       | 2. Use the 1-6 number buttons on the second layer so I can type
       | in all 0-9 numbers with just one hand
       | 
       | 3. Map the QWSADE (along with HIJKL which is at this point a
       | given) to arrows and PgUp/Down/Backspace
       | 
       | 4. Map Z to Enter/Return (So Capslock + Z) is Enter/Return.
       | 
       | I was toying with an idea to map the right side letters to the
       | left side, but that learning that may be more trouble than it's
       | worth. If I need to type more than 1 word it's usually worth
       | using both hands.
       | 
       | On a separate note I am continuously surprised there isn't enough
       | advancement yet by means of AI to make a rock-solid autocorrect
       | for typos.
        
       | smoldesu wrote:
       | Looks neat, but why does it need to have a keyboard on two sides?
       | They could probably sell it for a lot less if they simply sold a
       | left-handed and right-handed model separately...
        
       | rco8786 wrote:
       | 3 (at least?) product "demo" videos and not a single shot or
       | image of someone actually using it.
        
         | bsima wrote:
         | Here are two videos:
         | 
         | - https://www.youtube.com/shorts/9Smm_od1hHU -
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=q4OEKKMPH48
        
       | thomastjeffery wrote:
       | It's really tricky to find an audience of people willing to spend
       | a lot of money _and_ spend the time to relearn typing.
       | 
       | By going for a one-handed design, you constrain your audience
       | even farther.
       | 
       | This problem is then exasperated by the thriving community of
       | keyboard design enthusiasts that have recently had a huge burst
       | of productivity, thanks to cheap accessible 3D printing.
       | 
       | I wish this company the best of luck. They have a step hill ahead
       | of them. Even so, I'm always excited to see new companies
       | expanding the keyboard market. The more novel designs that exist
       | generally, the more likely it is that we can overcome the hurdle
       | that is _status quo_.
        
         | Etheryte wrote:
         | I would say that the thriving of the (mechanical) keyboard
         | community is exactly a counterexample of the problem you pose.
         | There's clearly a sizeable and well funded market segment for
         | all kinds of keyboards, both traditional and unorthodox.
        
           | schwap wrote:
           | Even in the custom keyboard community the vast, vast majority
           | don't require relearning typing. Whether it's 60%, 75%,
           | split, ortholinear, typing is still basically the same.
        
       | jitl wrote:
       | This is a very cool tool - another case of disability features
       | benefitting everyone. I would probably consider it seriously if
       | it was available 5 years ago; I wish more keyboards also had mice
       | sticks. These days I start feeling hand strain quickly on flat
       | keyboards, even with a lot of stretching, and need to run home to
       | my Kenisis Advantage.
       | 
       | As an aside, doesn't sound like Bluetooth work well with Mac:
       | 
       | > TiPY is not automatically connected to my Apple MAC or MAC
       | Books after I switch it off and on again?
       | 
       | > With a connected USB C cable, TiPY is always recognized.
       | 
       | > Third-party keyboards only connected to Bluetooth are never
       | recognized by Apple after being switched off and must be
       | reconnected.
        
         | throwawayboise wrote:
         | > another case of disability features benefitting everyone
         | 
         | What do you see as the benefit for a two-handed person using a
         | computer in a normal desk job? Honest question, it's just not
         | clear to me.
        
           | SamoyedFurFluff wrote:
           | I mean... I think it's pretty obvious that being one handed
           | is a disability in that it makes a wide variety of things
           | harder. I could think of a bunch of things that would be much
           | harder or more inefficient one handed... using my mouse and
           | my keyboard at the same time for example. Or that typing
           | itself gets more tiring with one hand to me. I mean I even
           | still use two thumbs to text! Have you tried going one handed
           | for a while, maybe due to an injury or something?
        
             | ARandomerDude wrote:
             | Parent was asking why a person with 2 hands would want to
             | use a 1-handed keyboard.
        
           | sdenton4 wrote:
           | Mouse and keyboard without mode switching.
           | 
           | Or left handed keyboard plus a Wacom tablet, joystick, or
           | other peripheral.
        
           | jitl wrote:
           | As another poster said, mouse and keyboard without moving
           | hands around. Before I settled on the Kenisis, I tried a
           | bunch of unusual input schemes to reduce the "switch time"
           | from typing to pointing activities. Some of the stuff I
           | tried:
           | 
           | - Trackpad between split keyboard. Difficult to use because
           | of edge rejection; had to move hands too much to reach the
           | live zone.
           | 
           | - Bluetooth ring mouse - tiny trackpad mounted on a finger or
           | thumb wring. Surprisingly usable, but lacks fine controls for
           | text selection/drawing, or takes too much effort to move
           | around the screen. Not enough surface area for acceleration
           | to kick in.
           | 
           | - Finger mouse - like strapping a desktop optical mouse
           | sensor to the index finger. Too weird, still needs the hand
           | to move to a mousepad away from the keyboard.
           | 
           | - Lenovo Thinkpad keyboard with trackpoint - decent, but
           | keyboard not ergonomic enough. Missed mechanical keys
           | 
           | - tenkeyless mechanical keyboard with trackpoint - good, but
           | not fantastic. Still not ergonomic enough. One or two keys
           | needed re-soldering, and then another few started to fail
           | later. Annoying.
           | 
           | Eventually I decided to commit to Kenisis advantage for
           | typing input, and a normal mouse for pointing. But I still
           | think about this sort of thing.
           | 
           | I never got around to trying a foot mouse or pedals though.
        
       | powerbroker wrote:
       | I did some patent research on alternative keyboards about 30
       | years ago. Frankly, even then, there was an unusual density of
       | innovation in this technology. To be clear, there was about 5X
       | more variants on the keyboard than I would have expected prior to
       | my deep research.
       | 
       | As a former patent attorney, working in various industries, a
       | good rule of thumb is that only 1 in 3 inventions ever get
       | implemented commercially. Back in the 1990's, in the keyboard
       | field, it was about 1 in 10. The chief problem with keyboard
       | innovations, even ones that are demonstrably more efficient, is
       | that its a little like asking people to reverse driving on the
       | right-hand-side (here in N. America), and go to left-side-of-the-
       | road driving. You have to break a lot of ingrained 'finger
       | memory' -- and, to some extent, be sure that your peers are doing
       | the same.
       | 
       | I think, then, for that reason, such keyboards never amounted, as
       | a whole, to be more than 1-2% of the entire market. Literally,
       | 100 different keyboards (than QWERTTY) are outsold, by a factor
       | of 100X by QWERTY
        
         | thomastjeffery wrote:
         | The compounding factor of that problem is that in order to get
         | a more novel design, you have to spend anywhere from $60 to
         | $500 or more, and potentially do your own assembly and
         | soldering.
         | 
         | That means the only people who are getting novel designs to use
         | are those who can _both_ afford one in the first place, and are
         | motivated enough to spend roughly 10-200 times the usual
         | keyboard cost.
         | 
         | This is especially prohibitive for children, who are the group
         | most likely to accommodate the learning curve of a novel
         | design.
        
         | touggourt wrote:
         | > You have to break a lot of ingrained 'finger memory'
         | 
         | That seems obvious but it's not true:
         | 
         | Your brain can easily learn different habits. For example, look
         | at musicians playing and switching on various similar music
         | instruments (between keyboards, different guitars like banjos
         | or bass, kalimba (Thumb-Pianos) with 8 or 12 keys and different
         | tuning, etc.).
         | 
         | Don't forget also that you can learn something fast when it
         | gives you a quick benefit. For example, learning the french
         | alternative keyboard layout "Bepo", takes only 2 or 3 weeks,
         | because after one or two hours of exercises you are already
         | typing frequent words easier and faster. I learned at the same
         | time, the ergonomic Typematrix keyboard, and frankly the
         | ergonomic part of the layout was easy to learn. Of course I
         | didn't forget the other layouts, and I can type on classical
         | Azerty or Qwerty keyboards without much thinking.
         | 
         | Human brain plasticity is very high.
        
           | Eji1700 wrote:
           | It's always been crazy to me how adamant people are that they
           | can't learn things like this. I know not everyone is the
           | same, and yes it will be harder for some than others, but I
           | have 3 different keyboards in use with slightly different
           | layouts, and it did not take me that long at all to start
           | using them, or to get back up to full typing speed (for the
           | record I code so having symbols easier to access is so so
           | nice). Further I rarely have issues switching back to a
           | normal layout (my only problem is i remap capslock to control
           | on everything and will sometimes hit that instead).
           | 
           | The two things i've seen that prevent people is, first, an
           | expectation of instant success, which just isn't realistic.
           | It'll take a few days, but once you've done it once it's
           | quite trivial to swap back and forth as needed.
           | 
           | Second, there's a shocking amount of people who just cannot
           | touch type? Even in IT/Dev environments I've seen hunt and
           | peck or other strange forms. Not blaming them but I really
           | think it's a major failure on our society that with tech so
           | integral we don't do a better job teaching these skills.
        
           | robbedpeter wrote:
           | It's also counterintuitive in that learning a new skill will
           | not override your learned muscle memory. Your brain is
           | awesome at incorporating context, so you won't lose any
           | proficiency with regular keyboards. You might actually get
           | better, if there are any mutually beneficial motions that are
           | reinforced.
        
         | anotherevan wrote:
         | > You have to break a lot of ingrained 'finger memory'
         | 
         | I'm a full ten finger touch typist, having learnt it in high
         | school. In November last year I accidentally nicked the tip of
         | my left index finger with a power saw - which then required a
         | lot of swearing and a minor surgery to repair the nail bed.
         | 
         | All to say while the finger was out of commission due to being
         | heavily bandaged or too painful to type with, I quickly became
         | adept as a nine finger touch typist. Wasn't as fast but had to
         | pay less attention to my typing than I thought I would have to.
         | 
         | (Finger is mostly pretty good now, if a little lop-sided. Still
         | some numbness in the very end but overall I was very lucky.)
        
       | nigerian1981 wrote:
       | Nice demonstration of the features [1]
       | 
       | [1] https://youtu.be/sTNwPWHjaLk
        
       | johnqian wrote:
       | Is this product strictly for people missing a hand? I can't see
       | any other market. Sure it looks and feels cooler to type with one
       | hand, but that is not nearly enough benefit to cut your typing
       | speed in half.
        
         | brudgers wrote:
         | It seems like a good control surface.
         | 
         | For example in an electronic music context.
        
         | feifan wrote:
         | I could see myself using this in Lightroom where most features
         | can be triggered by a keyboard shortcut but then manipulated
         | (i.e. dragging sliders) with the mouse. It would be faster to
         | have one hand on a full keyboard and the other on my mouse,
         | rather than moving my mouse hand back and forth or using the
         | mouse to invoke all the features.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | throw10920 wrote:
         | I, personally, would find this useful for doing work with a
         | photo editor, 3D modelling tool, or some other program where I
         | would otherwise be rapidly switching between keyboard and
         | mouse.
         | 
         | In terms of raw typing speed, I don't think that it can ever
         | come close to the performance of someone using a machine-
         | optimized keyboard layout with two hands, but I very much like
         | the idea of not needing my right hand to dance back and forth
         | between the mouse and the right side of my keyboard.
        
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       (page generated 2022-04-16 23:01 UTC)