[HN Gopher] Tipy - One Hand Keyboard
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Tipy - One Hand Keyboard
Author : pseingatl
Score : 75 points
Date : 2022-04-16 08:59 UTC (14 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (tipykeyboard.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (tipykeyboard.com)
| CarVac wrote:
| I tried one-handed layouts at one point out of curiosity and I
| found my one-handed typing speed on a normal QWERTY keyboard to
| be better.
| pseingatl wrote:
| Someone lost their arm and in rehab was taught how to use a one-
| handed keyboard, made by this company. I wonder what kind of
| speeds can be reached.
| infinity_user wrote:
| I love the idea and product. I would have bought one.... BUT then
| I saw the price...
|
| 350 EUR???? WTF ????
|
| Excluding VAT and shipping ??
|
| Who the fuck would want to fork 500 EUR for a damn keyboard ?
|
| What size is the market at that price ? This is ridiculous.
|
| Is there any cheaper alternative to this ?
|
| No fucking way that I spend that much cash for an unproven
| keyboard
| aktuel wrote:
| traceroute66 wrote:
| These one handed keyboards come and go like the seasons but they
| never catch on.
|
| FrogPad[1] was another example from recent history.
|
| [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FrogPad
| yhoneycomb wrote:
| This product is uniquely appealing to me because as a kid, I
| actually used to type almost completely with one hand at 40 wpm
| using my right hand solely for the backspace, enter, shift, and
| space keys. The only reason I stopped and learned how to use both
| hands to type was that my left hand started getting arthritis-
| like symptoms as a 10th grader.
|
| Unfortunately, my hand hurts just looking at the example in the
| promotional video I found. I don't see how you could hold your
| hand up at that angle like that and not end up straining it.
| However, I'd love to be wrong.
| [deleted]
| lucb1e wrote:
| Looks like the combined up/down arrow key is here to stay :/
| though this is at least one product where I can actually see the
| logic, even if I don't like it.
| politelemon wrote:
| What an interesting concept. If this proves itself and takes off,
| I wonder if there could be a version of this with mechanical
| keys.
|
| There's a video here showing someone typing using this keyboard.
| It feels a bit slow?
|
| https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=q4OEKKMPH48
| telesilla wrote:
| Looks like the person is training in that video. I'd assume
| after some period of time, you could type as fast as on the
| regular two hander.
| JohnTHaller wrote:
| I think it would need to be a _very_ low-profile low-weight
| mechanical key switch and cap combo for it to feasible in this
| setup. Scissor switches seem more ideal for this sort of thing
| layout-wise. And I 'm typing this from my GMMK with Glorious
| Panda switches and thicker XDA profile PBT keycaps.
| sandworm101 wrote:
| I new a guy in school with only one hand. He used the same
| keyboard at home as everyone else. Like most of us, he had taught
| himself to type as a kid and felt no need for special
| adaptations. Just like 99% of two-handed people, he would not
| want to invest the time re-learning how to type for a bespoke
| keyboard layout that won't always be available.
| goosedragons wrote:
| It's a rather unusual layout. Matias makes an even more expensive
| one handed keyboard that's essentially half a keyboard and then
| holding space lets you type the other half. I'm not sure why it's
| still so damn expensive.
| rzzzt wrote:
| Randall Munroe has a write-up on a mirrored layout where Caps
| Lock is the modifier key for the right half:
| https://blog.xkcd.com/2007/08/14/mirrorboard-a-one-handed-ke...
| mitchs wrote:
| I don't like the idea of using caps lock frequently as a
| modifier. To me a frequently used modifier should either be
| on a thumb or on the opposite hand.
|
| I recently started trying to learn a one handed layout to
| give my injured right wrist some rest and have been
| reasonably happy with the space bar doing double duty. (Tap
| is space and hold is flip.) Though this isn't something that
| most keyboards can be configured to do.
|
| So far I'd say the flip style is OKish to learn, but I'm
| still at a tiny fraction of my normal speed. It will take a
| lot of dedicated practice for me to be anywhere near as fast.
| TinyBig wrote:
| This is a really good approach if you can already touch-type.
| I found I was able to type one handed immediately though it
| took some thinking and it became second nature after a few
| weeks. The ease of adapting a regular keyboard to one handed
| typing makes it very hard for me to wrap my head around
| learning a completely new layout.
| wellthisisgreat wrote:
| I am, in fact, slowly progressing towards this concept on my own
| with a split keyboard (Quefrency / Sinc).
|
| I am doing it so I don't have to move the right hand off the
| mouse, or put the coffee cup down or just feel like supporting my
| chin with the right hand while I am reading.
|
| What I did so far that helped with productivity was:
|
| 1. Map the Capslock to activate 2nd layer when held.
|
| On the second layer then:
|
| 2. Use the 1-6 number buttons on the second layer so I can type
| in all 0-9 numbers with just one hand
|
| 3. Map the QWSADE (along with HIJKL which is at this point a
| given) to arrows and PgUp/Down/Backspace
|
| 4. Map Z to Enter/Return (So Capslock + Z) is Enter/Return.
|
| I was toying with an idea to map the right side letters to the
| left side, but that learning that may be more trouble than it's
| worth. If I need to type more than 1 word it's usually worth
| using both hands.
|
| On a separate note I am continuously surprised there isn't enough
| advancement yet by means of AI to make a rock-solid autocorrect
| for typos.
| smoldesu wrote:
| Looks neat, but why does it need to have a keyboard on two sides?
| They could probably sell it for a lot less if they simply sold a
| left-handed and right-handed model separately...
| rco8786 wrote:
| 3 (at least?) product "demo" videos and not a single shot or
| image of someone actually using it.
| bsima wrote:
| Here are two videos:
|
| - https://www.youtube.com/shorts/9Smm_od1hHU -
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=q4OEKKMPH48
| thomastjeffery wrote:
| It's really tricky to find an audience of people willing to spend
| a lot of money _and_ spend the time to relearn typing.
|
| By going for a one-handed design, you constrain your audience
| even farther.
|
| This problem is then exasperated by the thriving community of
| keyboard design enthusiasts that have recently had a huge burst
| of productivity, thanks to cheap accessible 3D printing.
|
| I wish this company the best of luck. They have a step hill ahead
| of them. Even so, I'm always excited to see new companies
| expanding the keyboard market. The more novel designs that exist
| generally, the more likely it is that we can overcome the hurdle
| that is _status quo_.
| Etheryte wrote:
| I would say that the thriving of the (mechanical) keyboard
| community is exactly a counterexample of the problem you pose.
| There's clearly a sizeable and well funded market segment for
| all kinds of keyboards, both traditional and unorthodox.
| schwap wrote:
| Even in the custom keyboard community the vast, vast majority
| don't require relearning typing. Whether it's 60%, 75%,
| split, ortholinear, typing is still basically the same.
| jitl wrote:
| This is a very cool tool - another case of disability features
| benefitting everyone. I would probably consider it seriously if
| it was available 5 years ago; I wish more keyboards also had mice
| sticks. These days I start feeling hand strain quickly on flat
| keyboards, even with a lot of stretching, and need to run home to
| my Kenisis Advantage.
|
| As an aside, doesn't sound like Bluetooth work well with Mac:
|
| > TiPY is not automatically connected to my Apple MAC or MAC
| Books after I switch it off and on again?
|
| > With a connected USB C cable, TiPY is always recognized.
|
| > Third-party keyboards only connected to Bluetooth are never
| recognized by Apple after being switched off and must be
| reconnected.
| throwawayboise wrote:
| > another case of disability features benefitting everyone
|
| What do you see as the benefit for a two-handed person using a
| computer in a normal desk job? Honest question, it's just not
| clear to me.
| SamoyedFurFluff wrote:
| I mean... I think it's pretty obvious that being one handed
| is a disability in that it makes a wide variety of things
| harder. I could think of a bunch of things that would be much
| harder or more inefficient one handed... using my mouse and
| my keyboard at the same time for example. Or that typing
| itself gets more tiring with one hand to me. I mean I even
| still use two thumbs to text! Have you tried going one handed
| for a while, maybe due to an injury or something?
| ARandomerDude wrote:
| Parent was asking why a person with 2 hands would want to
| use a 1-handed keyboard.
| sdenton4 wrote:
| Mouse and keyboard without mode switching.
|
| Or left handed keyboard plus a Wacom tablet, joystick, or
| other peripheral.
| jitl wrote:
| As another poster said, mouse and keyboard without moving
| hands around. Before I settled on the Kenisis, I tried a
| bunch of unusual input schemes to reduce the "switch time"
| from typing to pointing activities. Some of the stuff I
| tried:
|
| - Trackpad between split keyboard. Difficult to use because
| of edge rejection; had to move hands too much to reach the
| live zone.
|
| - Bluetooth ring mouse - tiny trackpad mounted on a finger or
| thumb wring. Surprisingly usable, but lacks fine controls for
| text selection/drawing, or takes too much effort to move
| around the screen. Not enough surface area for acceleration
| to kick in.
|
| - Finger mouse - like strapping a desktop optical mouse
| sensor to the index finger. Too weird, still needs the hand
| to move to a mousepad away from the keyboard.
|
| - Lenovo Thinkpad keyboard with trackpoint - decent, but
| keyboard not ergonomic enough. Missed mechanical keys
|
| - tenkeyless mechanical keyboard with trackpoint - good, but
| not fantastic. Still not ergonomic enough. One or two keys
| needed re-soldering, and then another few started to fail
| later. Annoying.
|
| Eventually I decided to commit to Kenisis advantage for
| typing input, and a normal mouse for pointing. But I still
| think about this sort of thing.
|
| I never got around to trying a foot mouse or pedals though.
| powerbroker wrote:
| I did some patent research on alternative keyboards about 30
| years ago. Frankly, even then, there was an unusual density of
| innovation in this technology. To be clear, there was about 5X
| more variants on the keyboard than I would have expected prior to
| my deep research.
|
| As a former patent attorney, working in various industries, a
| good rule of thumb is that only 1 in 3 inventions ever get
| implemented commercially. Back in the 1990's, in the keyboard
| field, it was about 1 in 10. The chief problem with keyboard
| innovations, even ones that are demonstrably more efficient, is
| that its a little like asking people to reverse driving on the
| right-hand-side (here in N. America), and go to left-side-of-the-
| road driving. You have to break a lot of ingrained 'finger
| memory' -- and, to some extent, be sure that your peers are doing
| the same.
|
| I think, then, for that reason, such keyboards never amounted, as
| a whole, to be more than 1-2% of the entire market. Literally,
| 100 different keyboards (than QWERTTY) are outsold, by a factor
| of 100X by QWERTY
| thomastjeffery wrote:
| The compounding factor of that problem is that in order to get
| a more novel design, you have to spend anywhere from $60 to
| $500 or more, and potentially do your own assembly and
| soldering.
|
| That means the only people who are getting novel designs to use
| are those who can _both_ afford one in the first place, and are
| motivated enough to spend roughly 10-200 times the usual
| keyboard cost.
|
| This is especially prohibitive for children, who are the group
| most likely to accommodate the learning curve of a novel
| design.
| touggourt wrote:
| > You have to break a lot of ingrained 'finger memory'
|
| That seems obvious but it's not true:
|
| Your brain can easily learn different habits. For example, look
| at musicians playing and switching on various similar music
| instruments (between keyboards, different guitars like banjos
| or bass, kalimba (Thumb-Pianos) with 8 or 12 keys and different
| tuning, etc.).
|
| Don't forget also that you can learn something fast when it
| gives you a quick benefit. For example, learning the french
| alternative keyboard layout "Bepo", takes only 2 or 3 weeks,
| because after one or two hours of exercises you are already
| typing frequent words easier and faster. I learned at the same
| time, the ergonomic Typematrix keyboard, and frankly the
| ergonomic part of the layout was easy to learn. Of course I
| didn't forget the other layouts, and I can type on classical
| Azerty or Qwerty keyboards without much thinking.
|
| Human brain plasticity is very high.
| Eji1700 wrote:
| It's always been crazy to me how adamant people are that they
| can't learn things like this. I know not everyone is the
| same, and yes it will be harder for some than others, but I
| have 3 different keyboards in use with slightly different
| layouts, and it did not take me that long at all to start
| using them, or to get back up to full typing speed (for the
| record I code so having symbols easier to access is so so
| nice). Further I rarely have issues switching back to a
| normal layout (my only problem is i remap capslock to control
| on everything and will sometimes hit that instead).
|
| The two things i've seen that prevent people is, first, an
| expectation of instant success, which just isn't realistic.
| It'll take a few days, but once you've done it once it's
| quite trivial to swap back and forth as needed.
|
| Second, there's a shocking amount of people who just cannot
| touch type? Even in IT/Dev environments I've seen hunt and
| peck or other strange forms. Not blaming them but I really
| think it's a major failure on our society that with tech so
| integral we don't do a better job teaching these skills.
| robbedpeter wrote:
| It's also counterintuitive in that learning a new skill will
| not override your learned muscle memory. Your brain is
| awesome at incorporating context, so you won't lose any
| proficiency with regular keyboards. You might actually get
| better, if there are any mutually beneficial motions that are
| reinforced.
| anotherevan wrote:
| > You have to break a lot of ingrained 'finger memory'
|
| I'm a full ten finger touch typist, having learnt it in high
| school. In November last year I accidentally nicked the tip of
| my left index finger with a power saw - which then required a
| lot of swearing and a minor surgery to repair the nail bed.
|
| All to say while the finger was out of commission due to being
| heavily bandaged or too painful to type with, I quickly became
| adept as a nine finger touch typist. Wasn't as fast but had to
| pay less attention to my typing than I thought I would have to.
|
| (Finger is mostly pretty good now, if a little lop-sided. Still
| some numbness in the very end but overall I was very lucky.)
| nigerian1981 wrote:
| Nice demonstration of the features [1]
|
| [1] https://youtu.be/sTNwPWHjaLk
| johnqian wrote:
| Is this product strictly for people missing a hand? I can't see
| any other market. Sure it looks and feels cooler to type with one
| hand, but that is not nearly enough benefit to cut your typing
| speed in half.
| brudgers wrote:
| It seems like a good control surface.
|
| For example in an electronic music context.
| feifan wrote:
| I could see myself using this in Lightroom where most features
| can be triggered by a keyboard shortcut but then manipulated
| (i.e. dragging sliders) with the mouse. It would be faster to
| have one hand on a full keyboard and the other on my mouse,
| rather than moving my mouse hand back and forth or using the
| mouse to invoke all the features.
| [deleted]
| throw10920 wrote:
| I, personally, would find this useful for doing work with a
| photo editor, 3D modelling tool, or some other program where I
| would otherwise be rapidly switching between keyboard and
| mouse.
|
| In terms of raw typing speed, I don't think that it can ever
| come close to the performance of someone using a machine-
| optimized keyboard layout with two hands, but I very much like
| the idea of not needing my right hand to dance back and forth
| between the mouse and the right side of my keyboard.
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