[HN Gopher] Cultural anorexia: The pursuit of thicker desires in...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Cultural anorexia: The pursuit of thicker desires in a thinning
       world
        
       Author : vitabenes
       Score  : 68 points
       Date   : 2022-04-15 08:15 UTC (14 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (read.lukeburgis.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (read.lukeburgis.com)
        
       | throwaway-m3232 wrote:
       | When I see someone mention human nature in some blog, I stop
       | reading...
       | 
       | Human nature is our species ability to transform nature. A cat,
       | for example, is only doing hunting for immediate consumption. A
       | pet cat is even more limited, just a furrring biological shell,
       | he does not hunt.
       | 
       | So when a human is limited in all his potentials, thinking,
       | planning, building, etc to something like a tool on the market,
       | optimized for some task, when human relations limited to objects
       | of consumption... this will reduce human to just one sided being.
       | 
       | May be this optimization was once necessary some time ago, since
       | labor productivity was low and this high division of labor
       | allowed optimized production, to feed everyone.
       | 
       | At the moment, the labor productivity is so high, that only
       | 10-20% working on something necessary for living. But all work is
       | still done as this optimized instrumental labor, as life depends
       | on it. This is not required anymore.
       | 
       | The solution is obvious.. build more not as an optimized one
       | sided "worker", but as an universal human being, as a free time
       | activity.
       | 
       | Which politically means that the work day should be reduced.. and
       | this is not easy to implement. But if you really want a social
       | change, this is the way to go.
        
         | refurb wrote:
         | You can reduce work right now if you'd like. Live like the
         | 1920's. No access to modern medicine, no automobile, no
         | internet, no antibiotics. Grow your own food.
        
           | captainbland wrote:
           | Only if you already own your own housing or live somewhere
           | where that is already covered for you. Even then it's not
           | like the job market is bursting with opportunities where you
           | can take a decent FT position and earn the same pro-rata at
           | lower hours.
        
           | beaconstudios wrote:
           | A small percentage of today's work goes towards these things
           | (except the Internet, which is an endless sinkhole of mostly
           | pointless labour).
        
             | refurb wrote:
             | The OECD average GDP spent on healthcare is 9.9% (US spends
             | 17%). That mean 1 out of every 10 dollars of economic
             | activity go to healthcare alone.
             | 
             | So you could your 40 hour work week back to 4 hours, that
             | would _just_ pay for healthcare, and healthcare only.
        
               | beaconstudios wrote:
               | Cash spent on an activity does not reflect the time that
               | it takes, doubly so if you were able to reduce the
               | administrative layers involved in eg health insurance.
        
               | MomoXenosaga wrote:
               | Considering health is quite literally the most important
               | thing in your life (can't spend it when you're dead
               | anyway unlike the Egyptian pharaohs) I do not understand
               | why so many complain about the cost of healthcare.
        
               | brimble wrote:
               | If healthcare cost 80% of GDP, would you still not
               | understand?
        
               | AniseAbyss wrote:
        
               | Dylan16807 wrote:
               | > So you could your 40 hour work week back to 4 hours,
               | that would just pay for healthcare, and healthcare only.
               | 
               | Sure! I like modern healthcare!
               | 
               | And then 4 more hours to pay for the rest of a 1920
               | standard of living.
               | 
               | And 4 more for extra disposable income.
               | 
               | Let's say that's two days a week for 6 hours each. Sounds
               | pretty good.
        
               | Schroedingersat wrote:
               | Except that's the healthcare industry including large
               | swathes of money going to parasites like student loan
               | providers and opiate pushers as a whole, not 'modern
               | medicine' or 'antibiotics'.
               | 
               | Cuba's standard of healthcare is a reasonable compromise,
               | and their total spending per capita is 2% of the USA's
               | gdp per capita.
               | 
               | The internet as a tool for sharing information rather
               | than an endless red queen's race of scammers is similarly
               | cheap.
               | 
               | And yes please, let's get rid of the private automobile.
               | Without it we can build dense enough that walking (or
               | transit or bikes) will get you where you are going far
               | faster than driving 5x as far at an average of 30km/h
               | does now.
        
               | AniseAbyss wrote:
        
         | lettergram wrote:
         | Interesting perspective. Mines a bit different..
         | 
         | I agree specialization has allowed the expansion to other
         | fields. Fields like microcontrollers, biological development,
         | energy research, etc.
         | 
         | This is why we see an exponential growth in development of new
         | products and new science. If those same people were required to
         | work in the fields to eat, we wouldn't see the expansion.
         | 
         | ... now ... how does this work In practice? How do we get these
         | efficiency gains in agriculture and other necessary parts of
         | life?
         | 
         | Cheap and transportable energy. Fuel, gas, etc. if we want to
         | reduce the work week we need exponentially cheaper energy OR
         | research into new forms of energy production. The later is
         | currently happening and needs to continue to happen. In the
         | mean time, we also need cheap and transportable energy.
         | 
         | For reference, I own a farm. I code professionally and as a
         | hobby raise cattle and food. I can do that only because I have
         | the fuel to run a tractor and the wireless internet provided
         | from the satellites. To your point, in a 50-60 hour work week I
         | can produce enough food for 20-30 families for the year AND be
         | a highly skilled tech worker AND raise a family. All because of
         | fuel.
         | 
         | Now to my point, in my opinion, specialization has less to do
         | with it. Cheap energy is what allows it. Anyone could raise
         | cattle or grow food with minimal training. But without fuel you
         | can't produce food for more than a few families per year.
        
         | somewhereoutth wrote:
         | Indeed. A rather curious difference between the Anglo-Saxon and
         | Latin work ethic (and of course I'm painting a picture here,
         | this blunt generalisation is meant only to propose an
         | argument), is that: For the former, your job is who you are -
         | the second question out of anyone's mouth in the UK is 'what do
         | you do?'. Whereas, for the latter, who you are in society
         | determines your job.
         | 
         | Hopefully we can reach beyond both these erroneous
         | socialisations.
        
         | headsoup wrote:
         | Does that mean when I read 'human nature is' as the very next
         | words you write I should stop reading your comment?
         | 
         | Or are you saying you already understand it better than anyone
         | else writing about it?
        
           | samtimalsina wrote:
           | I stopped reading as soon as I read 'I stopped reading'
           | because generally that means that person has a strong
           | opinion. Oh wait..
        
             | JackFr wrote:
             | I stopped.
        
       | ivoras wrote:
       | I think the issue is more about the lack of true diversity. Look
       | at music for example - to achieve global success, bands all over
       | the world need to start using western rhytms and melodies, losing
       | the very things that made them unique.
       | 
       | Not that there's no innovation in niches, but those never reach
       | the highlight. A friend of mine is a musician, and was fairly
       | popular in his circles, but has almost a decade ago renounced all
       | pandering to the audience, started playing incredibly complex
       | music, polyrhythms, fractal melodies, uniquely tuned instruments
       | - and has since lost almost all of his audience and the income
       | which came from music. But - and this is important - he's never
       | been both happier and more virtuosic as a musician, it fulfills
       | him like more popular music never did.
       | 
       | Unfortunately, he'll probably never be as appreciated as before
       | and must have other sources of income.
       | 
       | Edit: this is him and a single, weirdly tuned guitar:
       | https://nikopotocnjak.bandcamp.com/
        
         | uuyi wrote:
         | That's pretty standard across everything.
         | 
         | The moment you do stuff because you enjoy it and not to get
         | paid or satisfy other people then your quality of life goes up.
         | 
         | This is why I get paid to do something I hate (software eng)
         | and live a quiet existence doing what I love. Which I'm not
         | even going to mention on here. Not even my family knows what I
         | love.
        
           | catchclose8919 wrote:
           | > Not even my family knows what I love.
           | 
           | ...at least write a nice novel/biography/whatever to be found
           | together with the bodies decades later :) Create some
           | enjoyment opportunity for others too, don't keep it all to
           | yourself :P
        
           | tough wrote:
           | Damnt what a cliffhanger, kudos to finding your passion
           | though and no need to share what it is as long as it keeps
           | you fulfilled!
        
         | recuter wrote:
         | I think the issue is more about the lack of true diversity.
         | Look at music for example - to achieve global success, bands
         | all over the world need to start using western rhytms and
         | melodies, losing the very things that made them unique.
         | 
         | Yes, sure, everything is about a lack of diversity. You might
         | want to look some more into musical theory and where those
         | twelves notes, rhythms and melodies originate from in the first
         | place.                 Not that there's no innovation in
         | niches, but those never reach the highlight.
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_music
         | 
         | Starting with the 60s hippies who need a haircut got rather
         | into Indian stuff. In the 80s you had an African wave with the
         | likes of Paul Simon. Peter Gabriel was all over the map. Hardly
         | niche. All of this comes and goes, and comes round again. A lot
         | of the biggest stars at the moment are not from the US/West.
         | has almost a decade ago renounced all pandering to the
         | audience, started playing incredibly complex music,
         | polyrhythms, fractal melodies, uniquely tuned instruments - and
         | has since lost almost all of his audience and the income which
         | came from music
         | 
         | Jacob Collier seems to be thriving:
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=meha_FCcHbo
         | 
         | Now whether or not there is money in it is altogether a
         | different question. Music has been devalued. You/Friend might
         | enjoy Rick Beato ranting about this subject on Youtube.
         | 
         | This isn't a new thing, if he wants to make money he needs to
         | look cute, even the Beatles started by getting a makeover and
         | going the boy band route. Such is life.
        
           | bavell wrote:
           | +1 for Rick Beato, excellent resource and cool dude!
        
           | elsherbini wrote:
           | Off topic, but you seem like someone who might like these
           | less popular music theory channels I really enjoy (all to do
           | with harmony mostly)
           | 
           | Metaharmony - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNKBF8Phj3M
           | 
           | The Labyrinth of Limitations -
           | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86XSsHlJSrc
           | 
           | Synthase / Midnight Oil Collective -
           | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gWMW1Hkdik
        
             | recuter wrote:
             | Not off topic at all and very cool. Labyrinth dude seems
             | legit to me, thanks for these.
             | 
             | If you haven't seen this Victor Wooten clip you should give
             | it a glance: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLCOwgbEO4o
        
         | rob74 wrote:
         | Well, then I'm glad that there are plenty of bands that _don
         | 't_ want to achieve global success and are perfectly content to
         | continue doing their thing. I'd much rather listen to those
         | bands (old and new) than the ones striving for global success.
        
         | clejack wrote:
         | We communicate with the most detail using words, but body
         | language, facial expressions, touch and other scrubs act as
         | girls of communication as well. All of these things have a
         | common foundation in pattern.
         | 
         | What we call art is the manipulation of these common patterns.
         | When it's most successful, it often regurgitates patterns that
         | have proven successful. When it's most meaningful it modifies
         | the old pattern to make new patterns that people can
         | appreciate.
         | 
         | The question then becomes, how much modification can you engage
         | in before your work because meaningless to everyone but
         | yourself.
         | 
         | Imagine if your friend was a writer who got tired of the spoken
         | languages and began writing novels in his own custom language.
         | Would you lament the fact that no one reads his books?
         | 
         | Btw, I took a (very) brief listen to your friends music and it
         | seemed kinda interesting, but I can certainly see why he lost
         | all of his followers.
        
         | teekert wrote:
         | "to achieve global success", it's unfortunate that that is
         | often the goal indeed.
         | 
         | Globalization kills a lot, look at Khao San Road in Bangkok, in
         | 20 years it changed from small street stalls to big global
         | chains. And the great homogenization will continue. In the
         | first Ringworld, this process is also described, transport
         | booths (in a flash you walk to any destination on earth) made
         | every city the same. The internet and cheap flights have
         | already started this process.
         | 
         | Edit I also remember this being posted here once: "The same
         | damn avocado toast" or something (can't find it anymore), about
         | a traveler that got the same damn avocado toast everywhere he
         | went.
        
           | Mezzie wrote:
           | Reminds me of this article:
           | https://nymag.com/urbanist/article/the-unbearable-
           | sameness-o....
           | 
           | Also this one: https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive
           | /2020/08/why-e....
           | 
           | This phenomenon is why I ended up moving back to my hometown
           | of ~100k after living in a couple of different countries +
           | several different regions of the US/different big cities.
           | They're all the same after a while. I missed a place that was
           | unabashedly itself.
        
         | dav_Oz wrote:
         | It reminds of the common advice you often read (also in HN): Go
         | on follow your passion but secure it with a job which provides
         | for you (and your family).
         | 
         | In the case of a musician one such way (besides teaching) is
         | playing in "cover bands" ("playing everything": Top40, Classics
         | etc.) which paid astonishingly well on a gig to gig basis (from
         | weddings to little local fests) once you are a bit established
         | and known (even locally).
         | 
         | I was very young (17) when I started to do that (as a drummer)
         | mostly because I "needed" some money for "better" equipment ;)
         | At first I hated it but after a while I appreciated the actual
         | discipline it required and it taught me practical musical
         | communication skills through my time playing with a lot of
         | different musicians. So, that it in a unexpected way did not
         | only helped me out financially but also in becoming a more
         | well-rounded musician (i.e. "paradoxically" recognizing my own
         | style/preferences/tastes/musicality in a more nuanced way in
         | all that noise of hypes, genres and sub-genres ...).
         | 
         | So, yeah the best case scenario is doing what one loves and
         | getting paid for it but it isn't black and white either, I
         | definitely at some point could have "sold my soul to the devil"
         | to make more money (professionalize it) but I was actually
         | quite satisfied with just not being constantly broke :D Once I
         | met my basic needs (after establishing what they actually are:
         | e.g. _not_ more and better equipment) everything beyond I tried
         | to consider a luxury, a bonus which worked out well for me
         | (still enjoying doing music and the community that this brought
         | with it) in that turbulent time of youth /early adulthood.
         | 
         | Edit: What a lot of people don't recognize: a handful of the
         | musicians I met, later went on to become "successful". Well, in
         | hindsight they struck me as highly obsessive and obviously for
         | everyone around them fighting with some serious inner demons
         | (addiction, depression, childhood traumas ...). For them to
         | finally "made it" can only worsen their situation. Imagine
         | having achieved what you wanted all along, being financially
         | independent, you now literally have no (outside) reason anymore
         | to be unhappy this can just only further estrange you from your
         | environment. I think we are all familiar with the excesses of
         | fame. "To be not successful" is way easier to handle for some
         | highly vulnerable artists (doing great music) because they at
         | least have a better chance to stay "grounded". I mean those
         | driven personalities by exploring boundaries become really
         | fluid, that's what also attracts a lot of audience,
         | unfortunately: We marvel at the sight of the end result:
         | "pearl" (which got produced by an extraordinarly amount of
         | stress).
        
         | Dracophoenix wrote:
         | Don't you think the issue begins with wanting to achieve global
         | success? It seems like a Catch-22: To achieve professional
         | success, one needs to be popular enough to capture a
         | sufficiently large, paying audience while simultaneously be
         | unique enough to push against the boundaries of mainstream
         | taste. Few people listen to music to be "challenged" unless
         | they're musicians. If anything, I'd say there's more diversity
         | in music then there's ever been. So much so, that we develop
         | complicated tools to find such music.
        
         | ehnto wrote:
         | Perhaps the problem is that the trend of exceptionalism and the
         | platforms that enable it, is driving everyone to want to be
         | global successes. We should be perfectly content being
         | successful in our communities, and with the freedom that this
         | brings us. Our community may be our local area, or it may be
         | our musical niche, or other niche community related to what it
         | is you're doing. But if everyone is chasing #1, and #1 is
         | defined by a popular vote, then you're going to eventually
         | conform to the the lowest common denominator.
         | 
         | This is probably more related to chasing fortune and fame,
         | rather than objective exceptionalism in skill building that you
         | see online.
        
           | headsoup wrote:
           | Or as simple as the promotion of the 'self' as the greatest
           | social unit, rather than the community or other larger unit.
           | And that self is not focused on healthiness and contentness,
           | but desire fulfilled, the narcissist reigns.
        
       | A4ET8a8uTh0 wrote:
       | << I often wonder what value there is in attending these things,
       | and then I remember that red meat, properly cooked (medium rare)
       | tastes really good. And that's the strongest case for veganism
       | I've ever heard.
       | 
       | I chuckled. Then I hesitated. Is the author suggesting cultural
       | veganism?
        
       | tdehnel wrote:
       | For me, the article cast doubt on my day to day work and desires.
       | That's a good thing since it will help me examine and critique my
       | life, which is the only way to make progress.
       | 
       | If this article made you feel bad, perhaps you could examine why
       | it makes you feel that way.
       | 
       | Instead of thin criticism (e.g. grammar issues, non-obvious
       | definition of thick/thin) maybe try going a little thicker.
        
       | PaulHoule wrote:
       | It's a class thing isn't it?
       | 
       | Today poor people are fat but kids in rich families get anorexic
       | because it is a way they can control the agenda. (Being 'thin'
       | looks like it is mirroring the high-achieving attitude of the
       | parents which makes them unresponsive for the children, but it
       | ultimately creates a crisis which forces attention to be given.)
        
       | Tade0 wrote:
       | The author strikes me as someone not really in touch with popular
       | culture or even global politics.
       | 
       | > NATO is an institution that does not, for instance, seem able
       | to withstand the thick desires of Vladimir Putin because it
       | scarcely recognizes that he has any.
       | 
       | As a Polish citizen I have to say that the initial reaction to
       | Putin's invasion, aside from shock, was a feeling that this could
       | have been us hadn't we joined NATO over 20 years ago.
       | 
       | Still no guarantee that he won't do it(there was a major scare in
       | 2014), but it's obvious that he's picking non-NATO members first.
       | 
       | ----
       | 
       | On to another topic: Sex. That paragraph is the most out of touch
       | in my view, because it's deeply rooted in the "war on drugs"
       | mentality. I was of the impression that nowadays vices are seen
       | as more of a symptom of a deeper problem than the problem itself.
       | Or is it just my bubble?
       | 
       | Also pornography is not any more the pinnacle of degeneracy the
       | author thinks it to be[0]. With the advent of curated content,
       | platforms with safe, functional payments and performers
       | increasingly securing their rights - especially to privacy, it
       | has become somewhat of a mainstream thing. Case in point:
       | OnlyFans is essentially a household name now.
       | 
       | [0] I suppose the author only wrote this because he's unaware of
       | the existence of the furry fandom or anime waifus. Those two
       | phenomenons went where traditional pornography can't and won't
       | go.
       | 
       | ----
       | 
       | As for art: most of modern art doesn't happen in galleries or
       | closed meetings with expensive wine and other cartoonishly
       | stereotypical attributes.
       | 
       | Modern art is chiefly memes produced and shared by the public for
       | the public - anonymously at that. It even went through a series
       | of trends, each spanning a few years, like the enigmatic, surreal
       | "E" memes, with their characteristic "deep fried" art style. To
       | this day it isn't clear how did this achieve mainstream adoption,
       | what were they actually expressing and for what purpose. There
       | probably wasn't any and people just collectively decided to make
       | it so, which makes this the purest manifestation of art possible.
        
       | neuroma wrote:
       | Anorexia means without appetite. We are demonstrably full of
       | hunger for culture. But the quality and nature of that culture is
       | changing rapidly with modern tech.
       | 
       | I think the author's metaphor is better framed around nutritional
       | value. Modern culture is rich in and dominated by junk. Consuming
       | it builds junk values and junk ideas.
        
         | nonrandomstring wrote:
         | Yes it's hard to know what is appetitive and what is rejecting
         | in culture right now. It is really self-devouring in some ways.
         | 
         | What the author (Luke Burgis) refers to as "thick" desires are,
         | to me, simply the age old depth of human values - messy,
         | complex, emotional. And he paints the countervailing ethos as
         | "thin" - one dimensional man (to use Herbert Marcuse's term).
         | 
         | But I am not sure his food metaphor works as vibrantly as he
         | would like, to describe culture, and in some places I think he
         | gets it backwards. Also, one should more sensitive throwing
         | around words like "anorexic" without thinking what that
         | condition entails.
         | 
         | When I wrote Digital Vegan, it's original title was going to be
         | something like "Digital self-defence" [1]. But I wanted to
         | avoid too strong a combatative metaphor for that book. The Cody
         | Brown quote that is the final title came late, in recognition
         | of the hostility towards those wanting more control over their
         | diet, whether digital or culinary, and the courage needed to
         | take a principled stance.
         | 
         | But control, or the lack of it, and compensatory behaviours is
         | at the heart of many problems. I had been reading Susie
         | Albach's _Bodies_ about dysmorphia, abuse and self-perception.
         | The relation of these to technology had a big influence on me.
         | However, reading about teen suicides, now linked to social
         | media and having in some ways supplanted eating disorders in
         | focus, led me to add this to the preface:
         | 
         | " Throughout this book I use the metaphor of food and
         | consumption to talk about technology. In no way do I mean
         | disrespect or to trivialise the serious conditions of anorexia,
         | bulimia, avoidant eating, or obesity. Indeed, I believe that
         | many forms of technological and material abuse share the same
         | root causes. "
         | 
         | Whether we build ourselves and our culture "thin" or "thick"
         | revolves around our ability to control what we take in, our
         | knowledge of how it affects us, and our own extant self-image
         | in relation to what we seek out.
         | 
         | [1] Thats phrase has been knocking around the cryptoparty scene
         | since 2010, and Snowden uses it in "Permanent Record".
        
       | prewett wrote:
       | I was hoping to find out what he thought "thick" and "thin"
       | desires were, but he never bothers defining them. Maybe he talks
       | about them in another essay? But without definitions, this piece
       | is just a catalogue of all the ills of society, justified by some
       | unseen value system. And the title is just wrong, it's not about
       | the pursuit of thicket desires (whatever those are), it's about
       | cataloguing society's pursuit of thin desire (whatever those
       | are). And an advertisement at the end.
        
         | karaterobot wrote:
         | About that ending:
         | 
         | At first I thought the article was merely vague and
         | perfunctory, but the advertisement for his $1500 course at the
         | end recast him in the light of a self-help guru. The thing is,
         | he made what I feel could be some good points, but now I wonder
         | whether it's just so non-specific that I'm reading my own
         | anxieties and hopes for meaning into them, like a classic rube.
         | The implication that I need to pay him money to really
         | understand what the hell he's saying makes me wonder if his
         | philosophy might be a little "thin".
        
       | automatoney wrote:
       | The piece overly relies on the metaphor to the point of almost
       | being incomprehensible. From the title and opening example I
       | assumed it had something to do with literal human bodies. But
       | then the definition of a thick desire is vague to the point of
       | uselessness - "enduring, sustainable, and ultimately fulfilling
       | desires", especially because it calls Putin's desires thick - as
       | if megalomania is sustainable and fulfilling? This largely seems
       | like an overly broad fluff piece, rather than rigorous and well
       | thought out writing.
        
         | trailmonster wrote:
        
         | hnhg wrote:
         | Agreed. It seems the author is selling training courses, and
         | perhaps this article and its vague style are part of a
         | sales/marketing approach for its target audience.
        
         | beaconstudios wrote:
         | I think he's trying to differentiate between intrinsic desires
         | (creativity, passions) and compulsive desires (spiritual junk
         | food of various flavours). I do think he goes too deep into
         | purple prose though, forgetting that poetic language in
         | philosophy is usually either referential or narrative, but this
         | article is using purple prose in an explanatory fashion which
         | often reads badly imo.
        
         | jmeister wrote:
         | Putin's desire, whatever you may think of it, is glory and a
         | place in the history books, a hallowed, "thick" desire covered
         | in the greatest oldest epics. Just read his recent, infamous
         | essay on "unity".
        
       | mihaic wrote:
       | I remember reading Girard's "Things hidden since the
       | foundation..." and feeling the way it's used now to reason around
       | human desires to be incomplete.
       | 
       | Looking back at my grandfather's living as a simple peasant, he
       | did many things mimetically, yet there were long periods of
       | nothingness where his internal desires sprung forth: one day I
       | remember he just weaved basked because he wanted new baskets.
       | There was no need for them, there was nobody among our neighbors
       | that was doing this, he was free and decided to make some
       | baskets.
       | 
       | That's why I'd relabel desires as internal or external
       | originating instead of thick and thin. True internal desires come
       | out best when there aren't any externally generated desires, and
       | modern life seems to overload our capacity for generating
       | internal originated desires. Internal desires now only seem to
       | show up in times of crisis, and then we've got a much harder time
       | to actually work with them.
        
       | john-titor wrote:
       | this reads to me as a rant of someone who just finished their
       | undergrad degree in sociology and wants to show it. some
       | specifics aside, the same article might as well been a topic some
       | 10, 30, 60 years ago. re-packaging an old opinion that our
       | society is degenerating for whatever contemporary reasons without
       | actually providing any constructive solutions does not feel very
       | productive to me. ironic that the not very fitting metaphor of
       | anorexia is used here.
        
       | KaiserPro wrote:
       | I don't think that the author has fully outlined the case for
       | cultural anorexia.
       | 
       | If I was going to try and prove the premise: that people are now
       | shedding a wide cultural "diet" for one consisting of a few mass
       | produced, single sourced things.
       | 
       | But I don't see evidence of that. If anything its the reverse.
       | 
       | What I will concede is that locality of the cultural "sources"
       | have gone. You're not going to find your next life changing art
       | exhibit at the local gallery, you'll find it online, and then
       | seek it out in person.
        
         | paulcole wrote:
         | > You're not going to find your next life changing art exhibit
         | at the local gallery, you'll find it online, and then seek it
         | out in person.
         | 
         | But in the past the only reason you ever found your next life
         | changing art exhibit at the local gallery was because the local
         | gallery was your only option.
        
         | lkrubner wrote:
         | "for one consisting of a few mass produced, single sourced
         | things."
         | 
         | Clay Shirky made the point that something like the Internet
         | expands the total number of offerings available to one person
         | while decreasing the total number of offerings available
         | overall. He hints at this in his essay on powerlaws:
         | 
         | https://web.archive.org/web/20060208093032/http://www.shirky...
         | 
         | He went into greater detail in a later essay, but that later
         | essay now seems to be offline.
        
           | KaiserPro wrote:
           | > Internet expands the total number of offerings available to
           | one person while decreasing the total number of offerings
           | available overall.
           | 
           | This argument makes much more sense to me, and I like that
           | the author has actual plotted their idea using some sort of
           | data, which is much more convincing than hand waving.
        
       | andrewclunn wrote:
       | One of the often missed features of religions is that of cultural
       | critic and cultivator. A group of people who find works of art
       | that at least don't offend their sensibilities and which align
       | with their didactic goals (child rearing, conversion, etc...)
       | Having an explicit standard for judging art gives a means of
       | determining what is that thick and thin: which pieces of
       | entertainment are just that and which are meant to be shared,
       | reenjoyed, and such.
       | 
       | Not endorsing a specific religion or philosophy here, but how is
       | one to aspire to something more meaningful and deeper when they
       | cannot even distinguish what that is?
        
       | Lamad123 wrote:
       | Remember, these are just random opinions of some random person..
       | Education, institutions, politics, technology, sex, work, art,
       | and media. This seems like a very random categorization of
       | "things".. Why is food or religion or violence or consumerism
       | there?
        
         | jstx1 wrote:
         | I don't know if I'm getting cynical or close-minded or just old
         | but I'm very quick to roll my eyes at an article like this. I
         | don't get the appeal.
        
       | dwighttk wrote:
       | I recommend C.S. Lewis' _The Discarded Image_ if this article
       | resonates.
        
       | redmen wrote:
       | Funny. Maybe the desire for acceptance and popularity on social
       | media incentivizes articles that defend social media to be
       | written.
       | 
       | I'm not sure how anyone can actually be in denial about how bad
       | social media, and constant notifications are for the brain.
        
       | mbawg wrote:
       | This article, despite all of its words, says nothing of value.
        
       | ianai wrote:
       | "In order to break out of the mimetic cycle were going to need to
       | find something worth hoping for. "
       | 
       | See now I think this wasn't proofread.
       | 
       | Not entirely sure this belongs on HN either. Maybe if it was
       | written more coherently?
        
       | SamoyedFurFluff wrote:
       | I have some disagreements with the notion that deep, passionate
       | hobbies and interests are increasingly difficult to acquire. If
       | anything, they've never been commonly acquired; only the wealthy
       | ever had the space for passion in their lives.
       | 
       | Additionally, how do you tell the difference between a hot take
       | person on Twitter and someone who is deeply feeding their hobby?
       | What if the hobby is spicy Twitter takes, because they are a
       | YouTuber and so getting in on the controversy on one social media
       | site gets you more audience for your platform on YouTube?
       | 
       | I have some concerns this essay is essentially dismissing other
       | people as shallow out of the same influencer style posturing that
       | it positions as shallow/thin. Doesn't help that it ends with a
       | $1500 thinking package, lol.
        
         | MattGaiser wrote:
         | > If anything, they've never been commonly acquired; only the
         | wealthy ever had the space for passion in their lives.
         | 
         | It is how people look back at the past and think that their
         | life would be better in past times. They assume that either the
         | lives of the well off were fairly normal or that they would be
         | one of the well off.
        
           | MandieD wrote:
           | A lot of that might be due to books and other media from or
           | set in the past being about (relatively) rich people.
           | 
           | I love reading novels written in the late 18th/early 19th
           | century; I give thanks that I was born in the late 20th
           | century, because life as a middle class woman with an IT job
           | now is far superior to life as a relatively wealthy woman
           | then, to say nothing of life as a woman who actually did have
           | to work outside her home (those were not fun, personally-
           | fulfilling jobs).
        
           | formerkrogemp wrote:
           | The target audience for this seems to be people like
           | developers who can afford this form of distinction of desire.
           | I don't see anyone in retail giving this article much of a
           | second thought. We know what we want, and, largely, we can't
           | afford it. It all comes down to Maslow's hierarchy of needs.
        
           | trailmonster wrote:
        
       | matthewmacleod wrote:
       | I'm actually kind of angered that I lost five minutes of my life
       | to reading this ironically paper-thin construct.
        
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