[HN Gopher] StarBook 14-inch
___________________________________________________________________
StarBook 14-inch
Author : capableweb
Score : 571 points
Date : 2022-04-14 22:15 UTC (1 days ago)
(HTM) web link (starlabs.systems)
(TXT) w3m dump (starlabs.systems)
| bArray wrote:
| Running this website without JS is pretty funny:
|
| > Intel(r) Core(r) 0 th generation processors
|
| > Ryzen(tm) 0 processor
|
| > Up to 0 GB 3200MHz memory
|
| And so on.
| dlivingston wrote:
| I know disabling JS is a popular security and privacy protocol
| on HM, but JS is a core part of the modern web. Strange side
| effects seem like they should be expected.
| dTal wrote:
| "No Javascript? You must be one of them Luddites. Well, have I
| got the machine for you..."
| varispeed wrote:
| Given that I can easily see pixels on my XPS 15 4k, I wish this
| one had higher resolution. Otherwise, I am not sure how an
| experience would be different than using a few years old laptop?
| Maybe I am not a target audience.
| userda22 wrote:
| I am just amazed that people are still buying apple, I mean you
| literally waive any right of privacy when you do!
| humanistbot wrote:
| I love this, but I just can't quit the Thinkpad trackpoint with
| physical mouse buttons between the keyboard and top of the
| touchpad.
| flatiron wrote:
| $930 buys you a heck of a good used thinkpad as well with great
| Linux compatibility.
| aidenn0 wrote:
| HP zBooks support linux (not coreboot though) and have
| trackpoint plus mouse buttons between keyboard and top of the
| touchpad. They are _heavy_ though.
| pmontra wrote:
| I bought the first ZBook 15 in 2014. I'm running Ubuntu 20.04
| on it now. One of the reasons I got that laptop was the
| physical buttons, plus on site next day support. Too bad for
| the 16:9 screen and I absolutely hate the numberpad. I don't
| have any use for it and it puts all the keyboard off axis.
| It's a world of compromises.
|
| Which ZBook do you own and which Linux do you run on it?
| aidenn0 wrote:
| I have a ZBook 15 G3 from 2016. The number pad is one of
| those things I love 10% of the time and I wish it could
| just disappear the rest of the time. Perhaps the ideal
| laptop should come with a USB number pad?
|
| I run NixOS on it.
| koiueo wrote:
| Not all trackpoints are the same.
|
| ThinkPads are unfortunately uncontested.
| glowingly wrote:
| IMO, not all Thinkpads. My E485 was noticeably worse than
| my X1C6. Never seemed to track as well, nor did it seem to
| resist "sticking" as much.
|
| I don't quite know to describe sticking, but it's like when
| an INU (or a strain gauge in this case) fails to properly
| self calibrate, and it decides that an objectively false
| input is true. Something similar to video game controllers
| with "stick drift," but not quite the same afaik.
|
| Aside: Ultimately, I can take it or leave it w.r.t. the
| trackpoint. A good touchpad can do wonders. In tight spaces
| I use my thumbs then rely on decent tap-to-click and
| inertial dragging implementations (present since ~2008).
| Though in the recent years, I haven't had to commute to
| work by train or bus anymore, nor have I had to really
| travel by airplane.
|
| When typing, I mostly rely on keyboard commands for text-
| heavy work. I do find quite a bit of use in many thinkpad's
| KB layout still preserving home/end/insert/pgup/pgdn
| without needing to resort to "fn" key twister games, even
| if newer Thinkpad layouts are worse and worse for this
| (insert key got eaten by fn in some newer laptops, and
| there are obviously longstanding debates over the 7row vs 6
| row). None of the griping about the "swapped" ctrl/fn key
| positions would even matter if functions weren't being
| hidden behind fn keys in the first place, negating the need
| for a fn key at all.
|
| I do appreciate the thinkpad's clustered f1-f12 keys, which
| make common f keys quicker and easier to find.
|
| I've never used the touchpad on any of my thinkpads.
|
| I think Lenovo have been okay stewards of decent laptops.
| Not great, especially relative to newer developments on the
| market.
| Beltalowda wrote:
| I have an E585, and I agree it's not quite as good. I
| think the E series are kind of the "budget ThinkPads" (I
| got it second-hand in a pinch after my previous laptop
| broke). It's decent enough I suppose, but I've had a
| number of curious hardware problems with it (including
| the drift you mentioned).
|
| > I do appreciate the thinkpad's clustered f1-f12 keys,
| which make common f keys quicker and easier to find.
|
| Finally I found someone who cares about this too! I've
| had laptops without those little gaps, and I found it
| unnoticeably harder to use the F keys; for example
| brightness up/down is F5/6, and when watching some TV at
| night when it's dark it's so much easier to find those
| keys with those little gaps. Even in regular normal use
| it just makes things a wee bit easier.
|
| It's a small design detail, but it so clearly and
| objectively makes the keyboard better than I don't
| understand why so many keyboards don't include it. Well,
| I do understand: the graphical designers have locked all
| UX designers in a closet somewhere, but still...
|
| > griping about the "swapped" ctrl/fn key positions
|
| You can just change it in the BIOS anyway so that Fn is
| Ctrl and Ctrl is Fn, so it's a non-issue anyway.
| Animats wrote:
| Pricing looks OK.
|
| 1 year warranty? The EU requires 2 years, and they're based in
| the UK. But the UK dropped out of the EU, and that lost consumers
| EU rights.
| Reason077 wrote:
| "Minimalist design". And yet bristling with USB-A ports. Hmmm.
| BSOhealth wrote:
| Website doesn't work all that great on mobile. But I'd be
| supportive of a Linux laptop that can market itself to regular
| consumers rather than already-converted Linux folks.
| hackmiester wrote:
| I had to laugh when I scrolled down and it claimed to have a
| 0th generation processor
| BSOhealth wrote:
| Agreed, the labels for some of the numbers never loaded (or
| the CSS just borked) and it was just a vertical list of
| random numbers.
| mypalmike wrote:
| It worked fine on mine but it's a weird and confusing
| gimmick.
| leeoniya wrote:
| 1920x1080 on a 14" display is unfortunately not something i will
| be okay with anymore. i feel like 2k resolution is the sweet spot
| for this size display.
|
| EDIT: sorry, i meant QHD (1440p) (2560x1440)
| thanatos519 wrote:
| I thought QHD would be nice enough at that size but I really
| like my 3840x2400 14"-ish Dell Precision. The extra resolution
| means the fonts look printed instead of no-too-pixelly.
| shalmanese wrote:
| 2K resolution _is_ 1920 x something. Both 1920x1080 and
| 1920x1200 are 2K.
| stagger87 wrote:
| 1920x1080 is 2k BTW.
| mypalmike wrote:
| TIL that the terminology changed at some point to refer to
| horizontal (e.g. 2K) rather than vertical resolution (e.g.
| 1080p). Probably ages ago.
| buryat wrote:
| it never changed, p in 1080p always referred to progressive
| lines as it came from movies/tv, 4k always meant 4096 at
| horizontal. We still have 2160p which is 3840x2160 They
| never replaced each other, just different definitions for
| screen sizes
| LeFantome wrote:
| It changed with the "K". The marketing teams decided that
| 4K sounded better than 2160p. This is all the more
| ridiculous as 4K usually means UHD where neither axis has
| 4000 pixels ( 3840 x 2160 ). In the industry I am in, this
| would be called 8 MP ( Megapixel ) instead.
|
| After the popularity of 4K, somebody noticed that they
| could start calling 1080p 2K to make it sound better than
| 1080p. If you say 3 MP, does that sound even better? I
| mean, 3,000,000 is more then 2000 right?
| rawoke083600 wrote:
| Looks good ! Can't seem to find the GPU specs ?
|
| This is such a terrible-time(opportunity wise) to build/buy a
| laptop:
|
| On the one hand, the newer much more energy efficient intel cpu's
| 12xxx are out, and if you want to go Ryzen, you should wait for
| the new Ryzen Rembrandt(?) APU (new GPU RDNA2)
|
| Still looks very nice :)
| lysecret wrote:
| I will never go away from a 3:2 Laptop ever again. I am using the
| Huawei 14, bought it for 700. The only issue is that i cant
| replace the RAM, and the camera is really bad, being behind the
| keyboard.
| mizzao wrote:
| What if they started making 4:3 laptops again?
| lifeplusplus wrote:
| how come phones have such high density displays and it's like
| buying a kidney to get that same density display for laptop and
| monitor.
| CameronNemo wrote:
| I was under the impression that no AMD processor is supported by
| coreboot. Why would this no name vendor be the first to get that
| working?
| [deleted]
| yjftsjthsd-h wrote:
| Not _no_ AMD processor; Chromebooks use AMD+coreboot
| (https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=AMD-
| Core...). Beyond that, I couldn't say; it may be as simple as
| "nobody else cared".
| CameronNemo wrote:
| Oh that is quite interesting. I did not even know that there
| were AMD Chromebooks. I don't know who at google is forcing
| hardware vendors to publish sources, but they are really
| awesome. Several arm vendors seem to only publish sources for
| their Chromebook SoCs (e.g. Rockchip, mediatek).
| neycoda wrote:
| STOP WITH THE MINIMALISM. I don't want my laptop to have _the
| least amount of features_, I want it to have _as many features as
| makes it useful to me_. These are not fashion accessories, these
| are life productivity machines. I need 4 USB-A/C ports (at least
| 2 that are 3.x and fast-charging), an Ethernet jack in the back
| (not in the way on the side), a lid that doesn't get stuck at 120
| degrees, fans in the back, a monitor port (preferably in the back
| out of the way), a hard drive light, separate volume buttons,
| 14-16" screen that isn't crap, headphone jack, and easy to
| upgrade RAM and hard drive.
|
| Laptops these days are RIDICULOUS, poorly-designed, wanna-be Jony
| Ive slabs that look pretty and are frustrating. We had good
| designs years ago! What happened?! They've gotten hard to use
| unless you're a coffee-shop blogger, they used to be easy from
| kitchen-table user to weekend coder.
| tazjin wrote:
| Looks decent. From the title it seemed like this only supported
| AMD, but you can get it with Intel CPUs, too.
|
| I've been burned in recent years by trying to use AMD stuff with
| Linux and just running into even more weird, minor hardware
| incompatibilities than usual. For now I would not buy an AMD
| laptop again.
| qbasic_forever wrote:
| Make sure to use the latest kernels. My Ryzen 2500U laptop has
| finally been fully stable and usable after about the 5.10
| kernel. There were unfortunately a ton of bugs and issues with
| Ryzen, especially the APUs, in the earlier kernels. Ubuntu
| 21.10 or similar derivatives have been solid though.
| tazjin wrote:
| I do, I use linuxPackages_latest from nixpkgs. On my first
| AMD machine (2020 Threadripper) I even made and carried a
| kernel patch to correctly address audio output pins for a
| while. Some of that works upstream now, but the AMD-
| compatible mainboards are spread too thin to be well-
| supported.
| CameronNemo wrote:
| As another data point, my 5600g (APU) desktop is quite stable
| with Linux 5.15 and latest stable mesa.
| IYasha wrote:
| Very cool! Not exactly to _my_ personal taste, but objectively a
| very nice project! Kudos for USB-A 3.0. Love the openness,
| Coreboot and the configurator. The warranty is impressive. I wish
| more products like this existed!
|
| On the design downsides (imho): Why MicroSD? There's enough space
| to put a BD-RE drive, not to mention full-size SD. The battery is
| not user-serviceable, judging by the looks. Not made of 18650,
| not hot-swappable. And the power button... there... err...
| ugghh... just.. WHY?? (I'd definitely hit it instead of DEL,
| which was placed there an all of my previous laptops).
| ribit wrote:
| I think it's great the kind of initiatives are becoming more
| widespread. Personally, I have little interest in these kind of
| laptops but the more choice and variety is out there the better
| it is for the users.
| spongechameleon wrote:
| Does anybody know: (a) how many nits the screen is, and (b) how
| many Whr the battery is?
| slaw wrote:
| Specification on website says 400 nits and 65Whr
| Sinidir wrote:
| How does switching to a german keyboard add about 230 bucks to
| the price ????
| Narishma wrote:
| It doesn't. What does is going from the i3 to an i7.
| mpfundstein wrote:
| probably custom manufacturing process due to no market share in
| germany
| p1mrx wrote:
| Do I understand correctly that this is capable of charging over
| USB-C, and includes a USB-C power supply, but the default
| charging cable is USB-C -> DC barrel jack?
|
| So you _can_ charge over USB-C, but only if you buy a C-to-C
| cable and tie up the single USB-C port.
| xanaxagoras wrote:
| System76 machines are like that too, or at least the Lemur Pro
| is.
| kelnos wrote:
| I think it's good that they have the barrel-jack option for
| people who want to use the USB-C port for something other than
| charging, but I would just prefer they ditch two of (or even
| all three) USB-A ports and have 3 or 4 USB-C ports instead.
| hakfoo wrote:
| Maybe they figure people would rather use the C port for
| something else?
|
| I feel like a barrel jack may be more resilient, if you're
| plugging it in twice a day.
| Anunayj wrote:
| Yup, at the same time it allows people to use USB-C for
| charging, which might easily be the case with some of those
| usb-c hubs that also provide charge to the device.
| ezfe wrote:
| I've got a USB-charging laptop I plug in every day for over a
| year and the cable still clicks in satisfyingly, fwiw
| ziftface wrote:
| Long shot but can this power two lg 5k displays? I'm guessing it
| can at least power one since it has thunderbolt 4 but I think it
| depends on how many "lanes" are available right?
| gdfhghdfdfgh wrote:
| unless you're considering using an egpu, thunderbolt is
| completely irrelevant to whether the machine can drive two 5k
| displays (from any mfg). thunderbolt is saying little more than
| the device can route pcie signals externally. on top of that,
| thunderbolt is only available on the intel model
|
| both intel and amd models use their respective igpu, so it's
| unlikely you're going to have a pleasant experience trying to
| drive those displays without an egpu
| ziftface wrote:
| Well then I'm out of luck because I don't know of a GPU that
| can power a thunderbolt display unfortunately
| KronisLV wrote:
| Hmm, seems like currently the costs of the more "open" laptops
| are around this: StarBook ~1000EUR
| Librem 14 ~1250EUR Framework ~925EUR
|
| I can see why they'd focus on this price point, but what are some
| of the better budget options? Best i can think of are:
| StarLite ~500EUR (available soon) Pinebook Pro
| ~250EUR (out of stock) Raspberry Pi 400 ~100EUR (not a true
| laptop, but interesting)
|
| I actually bought my x86 notebook for around 200EUR, which was
| perfect for note taking in University and now occasionally serves
| as a low-power long battery life web browsing or typing machine:
| https://techbite.eu/en/laptopy/laptop-zin-3-14-1 (i got a
| slightly older revision)
|
| That said, it seems like you should only go for the more popular
| devices so you don't run into stupid weirdness with drivers, even
| in popular *nix distros (4 GB of RAM just wasn't enough for
| usable Windows), for example, that manufacturer i linked had
| problems with the fingerprint scanner in the model i got.
|
| Of course, what i'm after might be better for those who prefer
| desktop computing for most tasks and only need something for
| being on the go occasionally (or just are frugal, like me, due to
| only being able to make savings slowly).
| MBCook wrote:
| I know the people working on Asahi Linux don't have things
| perfect yet, but it runs on an M1 Air. That machine claims 18
| hours of battery life (in some tests, MacOS) and gets 14.5-16.5
| hours depending on who tests it.
|
| The StarBook claims 10 and probably achieves less (everyone
| does).
|
| The base specs are roughly comparable, except i3 vs M1 and the
| high resolution screen on the Mac.
|
| The site is quoting me $883 vs $999.
|
| Even ignoring the CPU difference, the battery life alone is
| probably worth the $100, let alone the display.
|
| I understand the value some place on its openness, but it's not
| even a medium sacrifice. It's pretty big.
| xanaxagoras wrote:
| I bet the trackpad is awful compared to a MacBook, although I
| have no idea how it feels under Asahi. I reached the same
| conclusion... These m1 macs are just too good at the price
| point, nothing else can meaningfully compete. Once Asahi works
| well I'm going to have to get one.
| Buxato wrote:
| It runs, without full GPU support (at the moment no 3d
| acceleration at all If I am not mistaken), and you have to use
| Asahi Linux, not your favorite distro (yet). Also many of us
| doesn't want to give our money to Apple.
| sofixa wrote:
| > I understand the value some place on its openness, but it's
| not even a medium sacrifice. It's pretty big.
|
| There's open, closed, and then there's the crap Apple pull off.
| None of their devices are even slightly serviceable or
| upgradeable. RAM, disk, battery are all, physically or
| otherwise, fixed for the whole life of the machine. Add the
| huge premiums they charge for going from 8GB RAM to 16, or
| similar in storage, makes the sacrifice much more bearable.
| hushpuppy wrote:
| Asahi Linux will never work as well as a normal Linux machine
| within any sort of reasonable time frame. Even with Intel CPUs
| the Linux experience on Macs is kinda shit.
|
| If your goal is to have a Linux workstation then buying a Mac
| is pretty dumb.
| Phenix88be wrote:
| I m happy to see that AMD Ryzen is supported !
|
| But this laptop is missing:
|
| - a second USB-C. - You don't need that HDMI if you have enough
| USB-C, since you can turn them into what ever port you need. -
| Why the fuck do we still have USB-2 port ? - We really need to
| have option for the screen, 1080p is not enough for a lot of
| people. I like to have as much screen pixel has possible (because
| I can display more line of code).
| capableweb wrote:
| You seem to be wanting a stationary desktop computer, not a
| portable laptop used for many different situations.
|
| HDMI is great when you're doing presentations all over the
| place, no need to keep track of dongles, most places I present
| at uses HDMI.
|
| USB-A is useful for tons of accessories, personally I only have
| a one (out of five in total) using USB-C, and most USB sticks I
| come across when consulting are in fact USB-A.
|
| If you're out after as much screen estate as possible, external
| monitors are for you. A 14-inch laptop are for people on the
| go.
| Phenix88be wrote:
| > HDMI is great when you're doing presentations all over the
| place, no need to keep track of dongles, most places I
| present at uses HDMI.
|
| Then you only have an HDMI dongle. Until you present at one
| that use display port, someone can give you a display port
| dongle.
|
| > USB-A is useful for tons of accessories, personally I only
| have a one (out of five in total) using USB-C, and most USB
| sticks I come across when consulting are in fact USB-A.
|
| I know that, I m not against it at all. Just, can we USB-2
| retire now ?
|
| > If you're out after as much screen estate as possible,
| external monitors are for you. A 14-inch laptop are for
| people on the go.
|
| I code on the go and I don't want to be on a small resolution
| laptop when I m not at home.
| Rooster61 wrote:
| Has anyone here had experience with installing and running
| Windows on one of these? Not for me, but my wife is in need of a
| laptop, and I'm wondering how well it would run on this platform.
|
| I personally would love to run one of these for work, but IT no
| likey Linux boxes. Will have to upgrade to an M1 sooner or later
| (my 2015 MBP is on its last legs).
| gentleman11 wrote:
| I would also dual boot for the few times per year I need to do
| photo editing
| rock_artist wrote:
| All those Linux friendly laptops are cool. but it's quite
| troubling to announce devices with Intel's 11th gen when 12th gen
| ultra-low-voltage is around the corner.
| dainiusse wrote:
| Maybe it is a good laptop hardware-wise, but the design is from
| 2010
| pyinstallwoes wrote:
| If anyone that works at Starlabs is here you should know that I
| tried to use the configuration page on my iPhone and it was
| pretty buggy. I tapped learn more on operating systems then it
| was stuck there.
| ur-whale wrote:
| > DC Jack for charging
|
| It was looking good until this. Why not USB-C ?
| krzyk wrote:
| Exactly, very strange choice, I would prefer if they would
| change the DC jack into another USB-C/thuinderbolt port with
| PD.
| throwaway81523 wrote:
| Looks interesting, starts at $930 which is not too steep vs other
| products in the same space, price of upgrades is not stated which
| is a bit scary. Several Linux distros tested including Ubuntu,
| but Debian is not in the list. Appears to have a non-removable
| battery with nothing said about replacing it. And of course the
| CPU (whether you pick Intel or AMD) is full of blobs, management
| engine, etc. I didn't notice a mention of a built in microphone
| but it is a standard thing to find on laptops, so what I was
| hoping to see was a way to hard disconnect it.
|
| Edit: aha, I see replacement parts including batteries are
| available if you select "parts" from the menu.
|
| Ordering screen alert says "Production for the StarLite's has now
| finished, and are in the final stages of testing. Orders placed
| now are estimated to ship out in 2-3 weeks."
|
| There are some unstated "if"s in that, so I would say until
| people actually receive units, it doesn't quite exist.
|
| Anyway I will keep an eye out for this. I'm going to need another
| laptop at some point and this seems like a possibility, as does
| the Framework, etc.
| avrionov wrote:
| If you click on configure, you can see the price of all
| upgrades.
| cmeacham98 wrote:
| > And of course the CPU (whether you pick Intel or AMD) is full
| of blobs, management engine, etc.
|
| It's buried, but their website claims the ME is disabled by
| default: Go to "Configure", expand "Firmware", and click "Learn
| More":
|
| > By default, the Intel ME is disabled on both coreboot and
| AMI.
| jancsika wrote:
| > And of course the CPU (whether you pick Intel or AMD) is full
| of blobs, management engine, etc.
|
| And of course it can't do fast homomorphic encryption either,
| so that's a hard pass here.
| elromulous wrote:
| Just wanted to confirm / point out this is sarcasm?
| hobs wrote:
| Considering no one can do that in reasonable time, yes it
| is obvious sarcasm.
| [deleted]
| fmajid wrote:
| > And of course the CPU (whether you pick Intel or AMD) is full
| of blobs, management engine, etc.
|
| ARM is no better. You'd have to get RISC-V for that.
| CameronNemo wrote:
| There are ARM boards which have fully open TF-A. Various NXP
| and Rockchip boards have no boot blobs.
|
| Also POWER stuff is free from most, if not all, boot blobs.
| Maybe something for ram init... I forget.
| octoberfranklin wrote:
| POWER9 is 100% blob-free. Not even the ram init.
| oynqr wrote:
| Last time I checked RISC-V boards were still chock full of
| blobs.
| Shalomboy wrote:
| > There are some unstated "if"s in that, so I would say until
| people actually receive units, it doesn't quite exist.
|
| Kudos for being wary of marketing copy. I'd like to note that
| StarLabs has been shipping laptops of their own design for a
| few years now. They've been super transparent about
| manufacturing lead times and their order queue too. I don't own
| anything of theirs yet, but I've been keeping an eye on them
| long enough to say I appreciate their way of doing business.
| ChuckMcM wrote:
| So close. I really want a laptop with a "2K" 4:3 aspect ratio 14"
| screen, 64GB of ECC ram, a Ryzen processor, and an M.2 SSD.
|
| Would be interesting to get a nice web cam too but that is less
| important to me. I'm also not a huge "thinness" type, thicker is
| fine if it isn't heavier.
| lhl wrote:
| Not really so close, though right? Using Laptopmedia's
| database, the only mobile ECC workstations are Xeon not Ryzen,
| and the minimum size for those are 15.6". 16:10 is the best
| ratio you can get for displays. In fact, AFAIK, there are no
| current COTS laptops with a 4:3 aspect ratio display at all.
|
| I suspect if all of what you listed are actually hard
| requirements, the only way you'd ever get that is if you built
| your own - source an industrial 4:3 panel+controller, find the
| smallest Ryzen board with ECC support and get a Ryzen Pro APU
| (none of the ThinkPads will boot ECC SODIMMS on their boards,
| despite Pro APUs having nominal unvalidated ECC support) - you
| could try your luck with an A320TM or otherwise, might need to
| go embedded Epyc and an M.2 display adapter (like the SM750
| ones). You could probably build a "tablet" form factor that's
| reasonably thin (<30mm?) and light (and use an external USB-C
| PD compatible chargers/battery packs and simple DC conversion
| to make life easier on the power side).
| drudru wrote:
| Hey Chuck - been trying to email you. You have a bad link to
| your VAX stuff on your main web site.
| ChuckMcM wrote:
| Weird, the email in my profile should work. But thanks for
| the tip, I'll fix the link rot
| farmin wrote:
| Xps 17 is 1200x1920, 16:10. It's a great ratio and at 17 inch I
| don't use any scaling in windows and everything looks right
| size for my eyes. Can upgrade ssd and I've changed out memory
| to 64gb. It's a great rig but fans are a bit noisy.
| Lio wrote:
| Sadly the XPS17 isn't sold with Linux support. It _might_
| work but you can't be sure of firmware updates or component
| compatibility.
|
| With Dell at 17" and paid Linux support you have to move to
| the Precision line.
|
| I wish Dell would just have a single line of quality Linux
| compatible laptops you could buy off the shelf and know would
| always work.
| farmin wrote:
| I went to dual boot with Ubuntu but ran into issues that
| were going to take more than an evening to resolve. I can't
| remember exactly what it was now - something about
| bootloader and needing to change something in Windows
| registry to work ?(!).
| CaptainMarvel wrote:
| This is like the Framework laptop but it's a UK-based company
| that has been around for years, and with an explicit focus on
| Linux compatibility to boot. I'm surprised I haven't come across
| them before as I've been looking for Linux-compatible laptops for
| years.
|
| They do some things better than Framework such as supporting
| Ryzen processors, and seem a bit cheaper overall. The battery
| life seems like it would be better. They have a spare parts store
| as well and a full disassembly guide as well as an "open
| warranty". I was never a fan of Framework's swappable ports.
|
| The biggest disadvantage seems to be that the screen is bog-
| standard 16:9.
|
| I'm curious on the quality of the speakers, webcam, keyboard, and
| trackpad. I have a feeling they will not be great - in comparison
| to a Macbook at any rate.
|
| From reviews it looks like the trackpad is poor because it is not
| whole-trackpad clickable, and the keyboard is also poor due to
| the short key travel.
|
| Are there any other decent alternatives available in the UK?
| jazzyjackson wrote:
| > compatibility to boot
|
| I should hope so! :P
| 3np wrote:
| > The biggest disadvantage seems to be that the screen is bog-
| standard 16:9.
|
| Bigger than that IMO is 14" @ 1080p. It's just too little for
| daily use for me. Framework are so far the only ones in this
| market segment who have ever marketed >1080p laptop displays
| AFAIK. I have a hard time understanding why there is such a
| lack of higher-res panel options across the market, even when
| seemingly all other relevant specs are high-end.
|
| I'm sure like usual when this comes up, some people will come
| reply with "you can't make out the difference anyway", which is
| just not true. Some of us prefer smaller fonts and higher
| information density. 8px font size is just less ergonomic and
| more tiring for the eyes. For 16:9 14" I just won't consider
| anything below 1440p.
| lhl wrote:
| I'm keeping a spreadsheet for a new Linux Laptop (Alder Lake
| or preferably a Rembrandt) w/ HiDPI(ish) and 32GB+ of RAM and
| there are some options.
|
| Currently announced:
|
| * Lenovo X1 Carbon G10 - 14" 16:10 3840x2400 500-nit 100%
| DCI-P3 60Hz IPS
|
| * Lenovo ThinkBook 13X Gen2 - 14" 16:10 2560x1600 400-nit
| 60Hz IPS
|
| * Lenovo ThinkPad Z13 - 13.3" 16:10 2880x1800 400-nit 100%
| DCI-P3 60Hz IPS
|
| * ASUS Zenbook 14X OLED UX5401 - 14" 16:10 2880x1800 550-nit
| 100% DCI-P3 90Hz OLED
|
| * Asus Vivobook S 14X OLED - 14.5" 16:10 2880x1800 550-nit
| 100% DCI-P3 120Hz OLED
|
| I'm also keeping an eye out for the next gen refresh of the
| Tuxedo Infinity Book Pro 14 - they use a 16:10 2880x1800
| 400-nit display as well (these are a TongFang ID4H1, and XPG
| and some other OEMs also use a similar chassis).
| Lucasoato wrote:
| My last 2 company laptop were a Lenovo X1 Carbon G8 and a
| Lenovo X1 Carbon G9. These machines are so reliable and
| resilient, no matter how much you travel, they are
| indestructible. I definitely recommend them.
| akvadrako wrote:
| I would not. I've had an X1C7 for three years now.
| Numerous Linux driver issues (especially audio), issues
| restoring from sleep, had the screen replaced twice and
| the trackpad replaced once.
|
| To be fair if you get the on-site repair warranty, that
| is pretty great.
| vbernat wrote:
| The audio problems with the C7 were unfortunate but more
| on the Intel side to have force pushed that with this
| generation of CPU while nothing was ready. I got it 6
| months later at the moment where things were starting
| working. Never got much trouble for resting from sleep.
|
| I am currently still using my old X1C2 from 2014. That's
| quite reliable by my standards. I would prefer to
| continue with Lenovo due to reliability and good Linux
| support (there is a dedicated engineer for that matter
| who is available on their forums and who help various
| distributions including Debian and Fedora to make things
| work). I was waiting for the Gen 10 but battery life
| seems disappointing on Windows, so I am waiting for
| people to test on Linux. Gen9 only has FHD+ or 4K+ (too
| low and too high).
| madduci wrote:
| I have a ThinkPad E15 with Ryzen processor and supports
| 64GB RAM
| akvadrako wrote:
| I'm also looking for a new Linux laptop for this spring. I
| thought about the Tuxedo laptops, but after reading around
| there are a lot of complaints about quality and even Linux
| driver issues.
|
| I've been pretty disappointed with my Lenovo X1 Carbon and
| don't want another Chinese laptop, so I'm thinking to go
| ASUS. Currently maybe one of: - ASUS
| Vivobook Pro 14X, 14" OLED, 600 nits (peak), 3K, 90Hz
| - ASUS ROG Zephyrus G14, 14" LCD, 500 nits, 120Hz,
| 2560x1600, AMD GPU
| lhl wrote:
| I personally try to avoid Nvidia dGPUs since I usually
| don't need CUDA and they tend to be a PITA even w/ DKMS
| drivers and are terrible for battery life.
|
| I think the thing with the currently available Vivobook
| Pro 14Xs (M4700/N7400) is that they're currently last-gen
| Ryzen 5000 and Intel 11th gen chips. Even though I'd like
| to try out the OLED display, I'd probably go w/ the G14
| atm - Ryzen 6000 and also you get 1 unsoldered DIMM slot
| so you could probably get yourself get up to 40GB of
| DDR5.
|
| While Asus doesn't give a crap about Linux, there's a
| pretty active community (focused mostly on the G/M ROG
| laptops, maybe another good reason to go w/ the G14):
| https://asus-linux.org/
|
| It seems like these days there are always si0x/s3 or
| other power drain issues w/ non-validated Linux laptops
| though. A good reason to support companies like Tuxedo,
| System76, Slimbook, Starlabs etc that at least make some
| effort that their EC/BIOSes actually play nice.
| akvadrako wrote:
| I agree Linux support would be ideal, but hardware
| quality is of first importance; many of those companies
| are just rebranded Clevo.
|
| Until recently I agreed about absolutely no Nvidia,
| though it might be improving. For a few months now the
| drivers support the standard Wayland interface GBM, which
| at least means any compositor should work with them.
| lhl wrote:
| I agree you want good QC, support, and product
| design/features, but the various Lenovos, HPs, Asus, are
| just ODM'd machines manufactured by Wistron, Compal,
| Pegatron, etc so it's not all that different except big
| brands pay for more exclusivity. As far as repairability
| goes, you'd be better off with more standard parts, and
| honestly, lately some of the white label chassis' like
| the Clevo L141MU or Tong Fang ID4H1 are as good or in
| many ways better (lighter, unlocked BIOSes, more
| upgradeable (SODIMM slots!), better cooling, bigger
| batteries) than what many of the big OEMs have been
| putting out.
|
| Not all configurations one these white labels are the
| same though since OEMs usually can choose what quality
| display panel, trackpad, etc they want to use...
| akvadrako wrote:
| My concerns are more with chassis quality. Having a good
| keyboard means having a rigid body. Many reviews of
| Tuxedo mention mushy keyboards. Even the keyboard on the
| Stellaris, which they highlight, doesn't fair well in
| opinions.
|
| I agree most OEMs are bad, but the specific ASUS models
| I've mentioned, along with Thinkpads in general, seem to
| have better keyboards. Sadly Lenovo is making them worse
| every generation (with less travel).
| 3np wrote:
| Hey, I'm the one complaining about the lack of options -
| the Slimbook Executive seems to check all the major boxes
| and it's the first time I hear of them. Do you have any
| experience or anecdotes with it?
| lhl wrote:
| It looks like the same Tong Fang ID4H1 chassis that
| Schenker Vision 14/Tuxedo InfinityBook Pro 14 use (also
| XPG Xenia 14 I believe). If you do a search online,
| Notebook check, YouTubers (including some Linux-oriented
| ones) and various subreddits will probably have reviews.
| Basically looks good to me but ideally for
| performance/efficiency I'd wait for the 12th gen refresh
| (this particular chassis is Intel-only, although TF has
| other AMD models).
|
| Below 45W, Ryzen 6000 outperforms, and it's battery-life
| can be up to twice as good as Intel 12th gen in idle/low
| intensity tasks like web browsing though, so for a thin
| and light, my hope is to see a decent AMD model come out
| in the next couple months.
|
| BTW, a couple years ago I did a review of one of the
| first 4800H Tong Fang systems (versions of this have been
| available as the Schenker VIA 15 Pro, Tuxedo Pulse 15,
| KDE Slimbook, and Eluktronics Thinn 15): https://www.redd
| it.com/r/AMDLaptops/comments/hunyv6/my_mechr...
|
| It was pretty thorough and I answered a lot of questions
| so maye relevant still. Also, one of the things that I
| liked about the Ryzen laptops is that while it mostly
| wasn't possible to exactly undervolt, enthusiasts have
| done a great job documenting mobile Ryzen's power and
| thermal behaviors, and you can basically script it to
| behave how you want, when you want:
| https://github.com/FlyGoat/RyzenAdj/wiki/Renoir-Tuning-
| Guide
|
| I use a toggle that runs `ryzenadj -f 50` for example,
| which allows full turbo/speeds, but hard throttles to
| keep my temps right below my fan hysteresis temp to keep
| it completely silent. This tends to be my favorite run-
| mode on battery (I have it attached to a udev script for
| when unplugged).
| jalopy wrote:
| Any chance you'd be willing to share the spreadsheet (read-
| only)? That would be a great resource.
| lhl wrote:
| Sure, here you go: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d
| /1lXdXJEkKqsDNFm3LuPpB...
| zozbot234 wrote:
| 8px font size works fine with good hinting. In general, 1080p
| would be a near-optimal resolution given pixel-perfect
| rendering. Higher resolutions are useful when the rendering
| is too fuzzy, they're simply about hiding that imperfection.
| 3np wrote:
| Come back when you have tried that with CJK. There is no
| font or rendering that can make that comfortable to read.
|
| If it works for you, great, I'm just tired of people
| telling me I don't understand what I want and I shouldn't
| have to write a blog post justifying myself everytime I
| claim that higher screen res makes a huge difference for my
| use-case. It's not like Chinese language is an edge-case.
| zozbot234 wrote:
| Sure, but nobody is using 8pt CJK fonts. Even with a 5k
| panel, you wouldn't be able to resolve their shape
| without the equivalent of a magnifying glass (i.e.
| focusing on a smaller section of the screen). Talk about
| eye tiring.
| 3np wrote:
| *px but yes, precisely my point (wouldn't be so sure
| about "nobody", though...). On higher resolutions, more
| pixels in the same physical size. I find 10~12 all good,
| depending on circumstances.
| zozbot234 wrote:
| But physical size is exactly what matters wrt. resolving
| a shape. Already at 1080p, the pixels are too small to
| resolve individually when comfortably looking at the
| screen. So there's really nonbenefit to such tiny
| character sizes.
| eptcyka wrote:
| Th e so called perfect rendering you're referring to is
| just infinite layers of havkd that rely on the subpixel
| layout of your panel to appear smooth. Monospaced,
| unaliased bitmap fonts will look great and I use them too,
| but most fonts out there are not designed to be pixel
| perfect but instead to be rasterized to different sizes,
| and for that, higher resolutions do help.
| goosedragons wrote:
| You can get a 14" 4K ThinkPad (e.g. P14s).
| 3np wrote:
| I do not count Thinkpad as open enough to be in the same
| segment anymore. I have owned many generations of them and
| some are still in use but will not be getting a newer one
| the way things look now.
|
| One practical aspect is how they are very inconsistent in
| making crucial firmware updates available. In theory,
| they're on fwupd/LVFS. In practice, that can lag behind by
| months or even years and the only way to get necessary
| updates to get security fixes or get certain hardware
| working is many times to boot from Windows.
| riedel wrote:
| It is only the trackpoint that locked me on ThinkPad.
| There is IMHO clearly a user base that would be willing
| to move away from Lenovo only if they could get an open
| replacement for that single part...
| spaniard89277 wrote:
| Yeah me too. Apparently there were other laptops (dell?
| hp?) with trackpoints too, but not anymore.
| riedel wrote:
| The Toshiba legacy is still around: https://us.dynabook.c
| om/computers/laptops/portege/X40/X40-J1...
| svennek wrote:
| Yeah me too, the trackpoint keeps me at ThinkPads for my
| daily driver (I have experimented with others like the
| Pinebook Pro, but (underpoweredness aside) the lack of
| the trackpoint kills the deal for me...
| asddubs wrote:
| I just want physical mouse buttons (especially for right
| and middle click), which only trackpoint laptops seem to
| do anymore
| rxhernandez wrote:
| > In practice, that can lag behind by months or even
| years and the only way to get necessary updates to get
| security fixes or get certain hardware working is many
| times to boot from Windows.
|
| I feel like I get updates fairly often with my p50 on
| Ubuntu which is 5 or 6 years old at this point.
|
| My gen 9 x1 carbon is the best Linux machine (which
| includes desktops) I've ever owned.
| colordrops wrote:
| 1440p is perfect for a 14". It has a close enough dot pitch
| to my 4k 27" displays, so that I don't have to do any weird
| scaling when connected to external monitors. My other laptop
| it 4k and it's a pain in the ass to tune it so that things
| are not too big or small across displays.
| gnufied wrote:
| Isn't that too small for 14inch display though? You will
| have to use some form of scaling with that resolution I
| suppose?
| colordrops wrote:
| You need to set up various environment variables to scale
| up per app and framework, but once you do it should work
| across both the monitors and the laptop.
| Dylan16807 wrote:
| What's your upper size limit for 1440p?
| amarshall wrote:
| The key is to just stop caring about absolute pixel count.
| All that matters is the angular pixel density, with regular
| pixel density being sufficient when compared within a
| "class" of viewing distance (e.g. handheld, laptop,
| desktop, couch).
| NavinF wrote:
| I wouldn't use a screen larger than a phone (7") at 1440p.
| 4K is the minimum for laptops. Unfortunately 4K is also the
| maximum for desktops since I can't find any 5K panels with
| a decent refresh rate (>=120Hz)
| chiefalchemist wrote:
| I agree. Tho it also depends on how often it's a pure laptop,
| and how often it's a "desktop" with two larger primary
| monitors connected.
|
| I'd probably opt for 1440p+, but given the rest and the price
| maybe not. For others, 1080 might be just fine.
| Lio wrote:
| I have a Dell XPS13 Developer Edition that was specifically
| sold with Linux.
|
| Mine has a 4K screen and to be honest it's a bit of a pain at
| that size.
|
| It looks great but everything is a bit small with pixel
| doubling.
|
| If it boots in native res then it's unreadable. You have to
| mess with grub and set the font size to something enormous.
|
| I wish I'd opted for HD 1080 when I bought it. Would be
| readable and the battery life would be longer.
| stormbrew wrote:
| > Framework are so far the only ones in this market segment
| who have ever marketed >1080p laptop displays AFAIK.
|
| This is weird to me because I feel like I have the opposite
| problem. I _don 't_ want retina displays I derive no joy from
| and that eat more power for that lack of joy, never mind
| cause problems with differential scaling if I plug into a
| lower res desktop screen. I find I can't get high quality
| laptops that don't force me to have a too-high density
| screen.
|
| I have settled for the framework because everything else
| about it is perfect for me, but I kind of hope someday they
| sell a replacement non-hidpi screen for it and I will very
| much buy it. The possibility of those kinds of choices down
| the line is why I bought into it.
| stevage wrote:
| That's fascinating. One of the things I like about HN is
| encountering people who have such radically different
| preferences.
|
| For me, my big pet peeve is the difficulty of finding a
| high resolution (4K/5K) desktop monitor that is not
| enormous.
| 3np wrote:
| To each their own!
|
| Retina is a slightly overkill for me too, but I'd still
| prefer it over FullHD.
|
| System76, Clevo, and OP(StarBook) are all 1080p only. I'm
| sure I saw others I just don't remember right now.
| Beltalowda wrote:
| > I'm sure like usual when this comes up, some people will
| come reply with "you can't make out the difference anyway",
| which is just not true.
|
| It _is_ true for those people. No doubt that 's not true for
| _you_ , but you're not everyone. With fairly small screens
| (14" is small compared to a 24" desktop monitor) I genuinely
| don't notice the difference. I'm sure if you would put two
| screens next to each other I'd be able to spot differences,
| but in daily use? Not really. I used to have a employer-
| provided 15" Dell XPS with some >1080p resolution (I forgot
| which exactly) and I really didn't notice.
|
| There are downsides, too: the computer has to work harder to
| render all those pixels and the battery life is shorter; my
| battery life was noticeably shorter than my previous almost
| identical XPS with a "normal" 1080p screen, so it's a trade-
| off.
|
| Having an option would be nice for those who care about it of
| course, but I suspect a large section of people just don't
| care, and especially as a fairly small shop you can't do
| everything.
| colordrops wrote:
| I notice the difference so much that I have a visceral
| reaction to low res displays, almost claustrophobic as if a
| screen door is covering my eyes. Can't stand them.
| tromp wrote:
| I can live with the lower resolution, as my eyesight is
| getting worse, but not with the 16x9 aspect ratio. 16x10
| (1920x1200) feels so much more productive.
| Beltalowda wrote:
| My main monitor is actually 16x10 1920x1200, and at 24" I
| find it's kind of too low of a resolution: I wish it was
| more. But it was fairly cheap (second-hand/refurbished
| from a reseller) and the intersection of "16x10", "not
| too large" (I don't want a 32" behemoth), and ">1080p" is
| basically zero, so I had to compromise _somewhere_ , and
| given the low price point and that I couldn't be arsed to
| figure out all the display tech and whatnot for the new
| screens it was an easy choice.
|
| But 16x10 seems to be making a bit of a come-back, at
| least for laptops.
| IE6 wrote:
| FWIW you can also try scaling the display - ChromeOS does
| this well out of the box, Linux is OK, Windows has it
| too. Best of both worlds IMHO.
| IE6 wrote:
| > It is true for those people. No doubt that's not true for
| you, but you're not everyone.
|
| While what you say is probably true I just wish it was not
| the constant narrative around laptops that have nice
| screens. I bought a Samsung Galaxy Chromebook and
| absolutely loved the 4K OLED screen it had up until the day
| its WiFi suddenly died. Everything looked amazing on it -
| even just the boring ChromeOS UI elements looked amazing.
| However every reviewer had the same feedback - that you
| can't tell the difference and you should shoot for 1080.
| bzzzt wrote:
| > There are downsides, too: the computer has to work harder
| to render all those pixels and the battery life is shorter;
| my battery life was noticeably shorter than my previous
| almost identical XPS with a "normal" 1080p screen, so it's
| a trade-off.
|
| Makes me wonder why Apple is capable of building laptops
| that run for hours and have a high DPI screen then? Don't
| confuse Dell dropping the ball on hardware and software
| integration with trade-offs. There are upsides to high DPI
| too: you can turn off anti-aliasing since you won't notice
| it when the pixels are too small to see.
| josephcsible wrote:
| For me personally, I definitely do notice the difference; I
| just don't care about it enough for it to be worth the
| downsides you mentioned (plus the downside of worse FPS
| when gaming).
| 3np wrote:
| Of course it's true _for them_ and they should go with
| that.
|
| It's a tired myth that "the human eye can't perceive the
| difference and you don't either". We're all different, with
| different needs and preferences.
| Beltalowda wrote:
| > We're all different, with different needs and
| preferences.
|
| Yeah sure; actually, it just so happens I more or less
| said the same thing in a different comment a few days ago
| (very different topic, but similar sentiment):
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30984309
|
| I mostly just wanted to hook in on why these kind of
| systems still frequently come with a 1080p screen.
| jillesvangurp wrote:
| I don't get this either. I picked up a cheap Samsung Galaxy
| laptop with Manjaro a while ago to replace my broken mac book
| pro until I can get that replaced (getting the new 14" pro
| for work).
|
| The Samsung is fine but the screen is very mediocre in
| comparison. The same dreadful 1080p screen as world + dog
| insists on these days. Gnome makes it more cramped by
| insisting on a top bar thingy. I'd love to have a much higher
| resolution and brighter screen. 16:9 is just way to
| claustrophobic. And why do window managers insist on this
| silly top bar these days? That just eats into already limited
| space. Currently using Gnome and of course the one extension
| for that that fixes that (auto hide the damn thing), promptly
| broke when I updated Gnome.
|
| Writing this on my good old imac 5K; the original one from
| 2014. Now that's a nice screen. My 2017 15" macbook pro had
| the infamously shitty keyboard, which actually ended breaking
| the very nice retina screen by virtue of a loose key that
| inserted itself in between the keyboard and the screen when I
| closed it. So something that should not be falling apart
| actually fell apart and did maximum damage. Absolutely
| disgraceful. I'm glad they ditched that design.
|
| The Samsung at a quarter of the price manages a nice keyboard
| (with numeric keys even), a passable touchpad (multi touch
| but mechanical click sadly) and even a nice aluminium cover.
| If it weren't for the screen, I'd call it a superior deal.
| About as fast, same amount of ssd/memory, and it runs a lot
| cooler (i5 with xe graphics). Also, no thermal throttling
| because it just does not overheat. But at this price, I'm not
| complaining. This laptop with a better screen would be an
| awesome deal. Somebody needs to start doing this. 16:10, 4K
| would be what I'd spend money on.
| kelnos wrote:
| > _Framework are so far the only ones in this market segment
| who have ever marketed >1080p laptop displays AFAIK._
|
| Dell has sold their Linux-ready "developer edition" XPS 13
| with a UHD+ screen for quite a few years now. (They max out
| at 16GB of RAM, though, unfortunately.)
|
| Dell isn't quite as "open" as something like Framework or
| System76 (or Star Labs), but they at least sell their
| Developer Edition laptop with Ubuntu preinstalled, at your
| option, and claim the hardware is supported properly in
| Linux.
|
| (I say "claim", because I have the 2018 model, with a
| fingerprint scanner with no Linux driver.)
| aseipp wrote:
| The post-Ice Lake models of the XPS series all support 32GB
| of RAM on the Developer Editions; I have one. Until that
| point this was Intel's fault because before then they were
| behind on their memory controllers, nothing Dell could do
| about it.
|
| Fingerprint reader support for Linux in general has been a
| sticking point for a very long time, including on the XPS
| series. (I still fondly remembering the blobs needed for my
| old ThinkPad's reader to work...) But it's basically the
| only thing that requires blobs from my knowledge. I don't
| even bother with it on my stock Fedora install, though it
| is quite slick in Windows, I admit...
| kelnos wrote:
| Ah, strange. I'd just looked at Dell's site, but couldn't
| configure the Developer Edition for anything over 16GB.
| Probably my fault I couldn't figure it out... plus their
| order/configure site is terrible.
| gentleman11 wrote:
| I had an xps. The battery swells and the charger stopped
| working, then the replacement charger stopped working. The
| keyboard and trackpad werent great either
| kilburn wrote:
| > They do some things better than Framework such as supporting
| Ryzen processors
|
| For some weird reason if you pick a non-english keyboard you
| can only pick the i7-1165G7 (which IMHO is the worst proposal
| of the three available if you pick an english keyboard).
| LoveMortuus wrote:
| Regarding laptop speakers (in general) Dave2D recently uploaded
| an interesting video [0] where he compared MacBook speakers to
| best Windows laptop's ones that he had in the studio.
|
| It really does make you wonder why there such a noticeable
| difference!
|
| [0] https://youtu.be/LkYB931iUjc
| tradesurplus wrote:
| Give me a truly sunlight readable display (transreflective
| polarized lamination or whatever works well), a high fidelity
| glass trackpad, good keyboard, solid case build quality and
| decent internal specs and I'll buy a new laptop.
| headsoup wrote:
| I hope it does well and the range ends up expanding a bit, it
| would be nice to see some options with discreet GPUs (and higher
| res displays). The pricing seems reasonable and more support for
| Linux is always welcome
| octoberfranklin wrote:
| This thing "propels" the Intel Management Engine "experience",
| which is about as anti-open-source as it gets, folks...
| super_mario wrote:
| Looks like a great machine, however, the screen resolution is a
| little disappointing. Why can't we have retina screens on non-
| Apple hardware? Is this due to Linux limitations or manufacturers
| are just "cheap"?
| cjtrowbridge wrote:
| Why does it have a 3.5mm charger jack, but only one USB-C port
| which can also be used for charging? Like Just put two USB-C
| ports and no 3.5mm port.
| gadrev wrote:
| I've been checking these out for months, unfortunately the 13" is
| out of stock and apparently isn't listed any more in the site :(
|
| Wanted a decent, light (physically light I mean) Linux laptop at
| that started at less than 900EUR, so probably not more than
| 1100/1200 after some ram/CPU tweaking.
|
| Anyone know any similar options for that size?
| ilrwbwrkhv wrote:
| How does the touchpad and the 2 finger scroll compare to the
| MacBooks? Having used those I haven't found anything matching
| those.
| 2muchcoffeeman wrote:
| Nothing compares to the Apple track pad.
|
| My XPS 17 from 2020 has a worse trackpad than my 2012 MB Air.
| PhileasNietzche wrote:
| I stand corrected. The 2017 XPS 17 retailed at only about
| $200 cheaper than the 2012 Air (with inflation, I'm being
| generous with the rounding.
| bscphil wrote:
| I know this back-and-forth happens every single time there's
| a conversation about this on HN, but I just want to point out
| that trackpads are extremely personal, and I've had nothing
| but bad experiences with Apple trackpads until recently. The
| "hinge" models of the previous decade border on unusable for
| me because of the force required to click them, whereas my
| (early decade) XPS model has the best trackpad of any laptop
| I've ever used _and_ it includes physical left /right
| buttons, which I _love_.
|
| My advice is to try out the trackpad on a laptop before you
| buy it if this is something that matters to you, not trust
| the opinions of Internet strangers.
| Hello71 wrote:
| huh? apple hasn't used the "hinge" touchpad since _2015_ ,
| more than 7 years ago. unlike afaik every other touchpad
| out there, the actuation force is actually adjustable. i'm
| not sure whether this is necessarily a good change, but it
| certainly is a change, and your data seems woefully out of
| date.
| bscphil wrote:
| My comment is literally a response to someone talking
| about a MacBook Air from 2012.
|
| _Regardless_ , the comment stands, as even though
| Apple's trackpads have improved I would still strongly
| prefer a device with physical left/right buttons.
| 2muchcoffeeman wrote:
| > _My advice is to try out the trackpad on a laptop before
| you buy it if this is something that matters to you, not
| trust the opinions of Internet strangers._
|
| I can't disagree, but trying out Mac hardware is far easier
| than trying PC hardware. I can walk into an Apple store and
| try all the major hardware variations.
|
| I had to get my XPS 17 based on online reviews. Because I
| can't go out and try it. Buying PC laptops is the very
| definition of trusting internet strangers.
| Beltalowda wrote:
| > My advice is to try out the trackpad on a laptop before
| you buy it if this is something that matters to you, not
| trust the opinions of Internet strangers.
|
| This really applies to most products, especially those that
| you interact with so frequently and directly. It's one
| reason that in the EU you have a 14-day "right of
| withdrawal" for all purchases made at a distance (most
| commonly being internet purchases).
| BSOhealth wrote:
| I purchased and returned an XPS last year and the trackpad
| was unbelievably bad. After using Mac laptops for the
| previous 10 years, I hadn't thought the difference in
| hardware quality could be so far apart. MacBooks are at least
| a generation ahead of the best PC hardware (generation as in,
| 10 years)
| tomrod wrote:
| Likewise, 2021 Dell XPS 15. Had to retire it very early --
| trackpad issues, then frame deformation caused by _moving
| the laptop_ would cause the RAM or the CPU to crash.
|
| Framework working great now.
| burnt_toast wrote:
| > 2021 Dell XPS 15. Had to retire it very early --
| trackpad issues
|
| Me over here with a 2021 XPS 15 using a mouse 24/7
| because the touchpad lags hard on linux but refuses to
| admit I got burnt lol. I'd be over the moon if framework
| released a 15" model.
| tomrod wrote:
| Not going to lie, I was worried about the lack of a 15"
| model. But, working great for me even so.
|
| I just couldn't be productive with the laptop, ya know?
| You gotta be able to move!
| PhileasNietzche wrote:
| https://www.pcmag.com/picks/the-best-
| laptops?test_uuid=06r4M...
|
| The XPS isn't a great example of the best PC hardware, but
| it IS a pretty good example of the best laptop performance
| one can get for the price of an iPhone. ^^
| BSOhealth wrote:
| I mean, to Dell and the XPS's credit, it all appeared
| great until I started using the trackpad. Structurally
| it's super rigid and the hinge was satisfying. I also
| really prefer the rubberized+carbon fiber thing other
| Dell laptops have going on, much more than the cold and
| sharp MacBook. Even the packaging is getting Apple-esque
| with heavy cardboard and near-mechanical boxes. But, that
| trackpad produced so much dissonance and is such a
| critical part of interacting with the machine and
| software.
| tverbeure wrote:
| 2021 Dell Precision 5750. It's a $3000 laptop and the
| trackpad is a disaster due to flakey palm or loose t-shirt
| rejection. 15 years after the introduction of the glass
| trackpads of the first aluminum unibody MacBooks, you'd think
| that others would figure it out, but no.
|
| (The rest of the laptop is equally bad, but that's a
| different story.)
| PhileasNietzche wrote:
| Absolutely. Nothing (that is $600+ cheaper) compares to the
| Apple touchpad (at least to my knowledge).
| GekkePrutser wrote:
| On the other hand, almost any keyboard is better than what
| Apple sells :) their latest mbp is a bit better than the
| butterfly one but nowhere near the 2015 and earlier models.
| rabuse wrote:
| The surface laptops are the closest I've felt.
| k1rcher wrote:
| Interested in this too, as well as how it compares to the
| Framework
| freedomben wrote:
| I can't comment on the StarBook, but the Framework touchpad
| is really great. I had an early model that had a slightly
| annoying out-of-the-box issue where I had to click kind of
| hard, but after doing that it works great now. Two-finger
| scroll is super smooth, and it properly detects 1/2/3 finger
| gestures, etc.
| VTimofeenko wrote:
| I think my frame.work is doing the "kinda hard" click thing
| too. Did you just break it in, or change something
| mechanically? I mostly use the keyboard, so it's a very
| minor annoyance to me.
| freedomben wrote:
| ah yes, let me find the instructions!
|
| EDIT: this is what fixed it for me:
|
| > Pressing the bottom center of the touchpad firmly a few
| times has resolved the issue in some cases.[1]
|
| Said in a slightly different way:
|
| > There were also a small number of early units produced
| that may have contact issues on the physical switch on
| the Touchpad. Try pressing the bottom middle of the
| Touchpad firmly a few times to see if that resolves the
| issue. If it does not, please contact Framework
| Support.[2]
|
| [1]: https://community.frame.work/t/known-issues-on-
| early-framewo...
|
| [2]: https://knowledgebase.frame.work/en_us/touchpad-not-
| working-...
| VTimofeenko wrote:
| Looks like after a few _hard_ presses the problems are
| gone. Thanks!
| freedomben wrote:
| Awesome! super glad to hear it. btw framework support is
| really great. I've opened a couple of cases with them and
| they're super helpful
| VTimofeenko wrote:
| Yeah, I had the same experience. They reply super fast
| and with no bs. As a support engineer in the past life, I
| really appreciated it.
| stakkur wrote:
| Nah.
|
| You know what I'd buy? A proven laptop brand that a third party
| revamped/Coreboot-ed/etc. and resold. These mediocre, unproven,
| semi-bespoke laptops with third-rate keyboards and so-so screens
| (the two features that really matter to me) are never compelling
| enough.
| Havoc wrote:
| Tiny bit puzzled by the random USB2 port? Seems out of place
| given rest of specs. Is there a specific reason why that would be
| desirable over another USB3?
| MBCook wrote:
| I would guess that it's available on the chipset so they added
| it. Maybe nothing more than that.
| mjhagen wrote:
| Why do all these beautiful and interesting new laptop designers
| hate inverted-T arrow keys?
| dm319 wrote:
| It'd be cool if laptops came with programmable keyboards and
| layers.
| rectang wrote:
| Not to be confused with Starr Labs, makers of the Ztar -- a high-
| end MIDI guitar-like instrument.
|
| https://www.starrlabs.com/
| mnahkies wrote:
| One thing I'm very happy to see on their configuration page is
| the choice of keyboard layout.
|
| It feels like most companies assume that you must want the
| standard layout for the country you're currently living in, when
| personally I just want a us layout.
|
| Do wish they had some more options for the display, but still
| looks like a pretty compelling and reasonably priced product.
| Narretz wrote:
| I find it disappointing that non US/UK keyboard layout adds
| 200EUR to the price. Surely the extra cost they have is a small
| fraction of that.
| schipplock wrote:
| Non US/UK config defaults to core i7. The 200EUR diff is i3
| vs. i7.
| Narretz wrote:
| Oh okay, the site should make this obvious.
| chrismorgan wrote:
| Ah, those silly number animations where you animate from zero to
| the desired value. Combine that with a careless form of server-
| side rendering (though I am glad that all of the _rest_ of the
| page is correctly server-side rendered with only one or two other
| minor issues), and this is the JavaScript-free experience:
|
| > _Intel(r) Core(r) 0 th generation processors_
|
| > _Ryzen(tm) 0 processor_
|
| > _Up to 0 GB 3200MHz memory_
|
| > _Up to 0 hrs battery life_
|
| > _Up to 0 GB /s SSD read speeds_
|
| And more like them later in the page (like the 0deg viewing angle
| on the 0'' 0x0 display).
|
| Amusing.
|
| (Aside: I wish people would stop doing scroll-linked transitions
| of _any_ kind for regular content. It just slows everything down
| for no good reason. Let me see the stuff _immediately_ as I
| scroll; don't make it take another few hundred milliseconds until
| you fade the content in, or a second until you show the correct
| number.)
| atoav wrote:
| I wonder what influences gimmicks like these have on search
| machine indexing.
| zhte415 wrote:
| Was the page changed?
|
| While the hamburger menu doesn't work (it should, these can be
| done in CSS with no need for JS) there appear to be no number
| animations for me, just the correct numbers.
| gadgetoid wrote:
| Yes, I sent them a heads up- they nuked it from orbit.
| NLMichel wrote:
| Same here, maybe one of my "anti-bullshit" extensions is
| blocking it..
| dmitriid wrote:
| Everyone wants to do Apple-like product pages, and no one knows
| how to do Apple-like product pages. (And in fairness, Apple has
| forgotten how to do a proper product page, too).
| oefrha wrote:
| A little more than a decade ago when parallax scrolling was
| new and seen only on a few websites like apple.com, there was
| a wow effect. Nowadays apple.com and clones are among the
| most obnoxious and tiring ad-free websites out there.
|
| Do _not_ hijack scrolling. Use CSS scroll snap if you feel
| like it, but don 't do anything beyond that.
|
| (To be clear, this comment is a tangent -- TFA doesn't hijack
| scrolling. I see the same hilarious 0s everywhere effect
| though.)
| orphean wrote:
| It would be nice to see more uptake of CSS' prefers-reduced-
| motion. It's perfect for this exact issue.
|
| Personally I don't have a problem with scroll linked
| transitions but the user should have the choice.
| [deleted]
| morsch wrote:
| Looks very similar to the TUXEDO Pulse 14, to the point that I'm
| wondering if it's the same OEM. I've been using the only Pulse
| for a while now, it's okay.
|
| Though I basically only use it plugged in to external everything
| and frankly would prefer to use a desktop computer, so I guess
| even after a few months I can't say whether it's a good mobile
| device.
|
| https://www.tuxedocomputers.com/en/Linux-Hardware/Linux-Note...
| carlycue wrote:
| Apple Silicon MacBooks instantly made high end Windows laptops
| become paperweight. Why buy $1000+ Windows laptops with loud fans
| and much worse battery life, build quality and trackpad? Desktop
| PC's are a different story.
| zucker42 wrote:
| First, the article is about a Linux laptop, not a Windows
| laptop, and the reference to Apple Silicon is a bit of non-
| sequitur anyways. so I feel like your comment lacks relevance
| to the OP.
|
| Secondly, the reasons one would want to choose a Linux/Windows
| laptop over an Apple Silicon are so obvious I'm sure you know
| them already. Many people use software that runs best (or only
| runs) on Windows or Linux or any x86 computer. Also, Apple's
| default software is undesirable to some people for a plethora
| of reasons that have been repeated ad nauseam on HN. And the
| raw performance of Intel/AMD processors better than that of
| equally priced Apple alternatives, with comparable performance
| at iso-power (see e.g. [1] or numbers from [2][3]).
|
| Apple Silicon's success has been very impressive, and Apple
| laptops are well built, but they hardly makes its competitors
| obsolete as Apple's greatest proponents seem to want people to
| believe. The fact of the matter is that an Apple silicon laptop
| is useless to someone who does not want to commit to the Apple
| ecosystem.
|
| [1] https://youtu.be/X0bsjUMz3EM
|
| [2] https://www.notebookcheck.net/These-
| Apple-M1-Cinebench-R23-s...
|
| [3] https://youtu.be/edpdmbmYOj0?t=429
| goosedragons wrote:
| You don't have to run macOS. There's full support for Windows
| and Linux and x86 applications. This is also upgradable. Run
| out of storage? You can replace the drive! Add more RAM! Choice
| is good.
| Klonoar wrote:
| Asahi's making decent enough progress that, eventually, you
| may not need to run macOS to enjoy macOS hardware.
|
| Why would I pay ~$930 for this, instead of buying an M1 Air?
| The comment you're responding to hit the nail on the head -
| once you've gone fan-less and sleek, it's really hard to go
| back.
|
| Few vendors, if any, hit the quality feel of Apple's
| products.
| goosedragons wrote:
| 32GB of RAM? Good Linux support today? Don't have to pay
| $400 for 1TB storage?
|
| Kinda a bad move to buy something that may or may not down
| the line do what you need to do today. I need features like
| USB 3 and DP USB output today not 6 months or 2 years from
| now if it even happens.
| jbverschoor wrote:
| Not $400, but EUR300, so $334
|
| > 1000GB SSD. Gen4 PCIe Over-Provisioned storage +
| EUR303,71
|
| 32gb is the only reason.. but then again, doesn't matter,
| because developers claim RAM is cheap anyway.. so there's
| no problem buying a macbook pro instead.
|
| The screen is not 4k, trackpad not as good, it's plastic,
| It has this oldschool barrel powercharger, etc. etc. etc.
| goosedragons wrote:
| Except you can just buy whatever M.2 SSD you want and
| slot it in and it doesn't even void the warranty. So for
| the same $400 to get a 1TB MBA you can easily get a 1TB
| Samsung 980 Pro (~$160) + 32GB RAM (~$130) and still have
| money left over.
|
| Plastic is a pro IMO anyways, doesn't have to feel cheap
| and it also doesn't get nicked or dented nearly as
| easily.
| Dylan16807 wrote:
| > once you've gone fan-less and sleek, it's really hard to
| go back
|
| I've had sleek laptops where I couldn't tell there was a
| fan. Not sure what the fuss is.
| zucker42 wrote:
| A good OS existing for M1 in 2 years does not make
| Intel/AMD laptops paperweights now.
| MBCook wrote:
| Did anyone else notice the design of the arrow keys on the
| keyboard? That design drove me nuts when I used one of the Apple
| keyboards like that.
|
| I don't think I could stand that.
| hedora wrote:
| I could get used to that, but the letters and space bar seem to
| be off center. It looks like they added a column or two of keys
| to the right of the enter key.
|
| Is that a UK thing, or is the US layout also off center?
| smm11 wrote:
| Not that the XPS 13 is the best ever made, but.
| stmw wrote:
| Not projected to ship until late June... disappointing.
| pcdoodle wrote:
| Looks fantastic but I can't do 16:9 anymore.
| driverdan wrote:
| A 14" 1080p screen is unacceptable in 2022 unless it's a super
| cheap budget laptop.
| hparadiz wrote:
| Gonna need a higher resolution to seriously consider this.
| koiueo wrote:
| It looks great, but maaan, that keyboard is terrible
|
| - f1-f12 aren't split in 4-keys blocks
|
| - backspace, enter, etc. aren't the right-most keys. No
| additional spacing too on the right
|
| - cursor block with crippled up/down
|
| Touch-typing would be a nightmare. But backlight, yeah...
| nukemaster wrote:
| Funny, without js all the specs say "0." I guess they wanted it
| animated for dramatic affect and now you get something very much
| the opposite, like they're sarcastically selling you a rock.
|
| >0th gen Intel processor
|
| >0GB of memory
|
| >0hrs of battery life
|
| >0GB/S SSD write speed
| CameronNemo wrote:
| Yeah they would just need to add some <noscript>...
| tailspin2019 wrote:
| This problem happens even with JS enabled. They're supposed
| to be dynamic as you scroll but it doesn't work properly so
| you end up staring at zeros for quite a while!
| aidenn0 wrote:
| It would be nice if there were any DP on the AMD version; I
| assume the Intel does DP over thunderbolt and the AMD does not?
| goosedragons wrote:
| It says in the specification it has DP alt mode for the USB C.
| You just don't get thunderbolt on the AMD models. This is
| pretty typical and it's the same case on the AMD ThinkPads.
| aidenn0 wrote:
| Thanks; I feel like I need a rubric for grading USB C
| connectors because I cannot keep all the zillion things
| straight.
| Mikeb85 wrote:
| No 6000 series Ryzen... Looks decent though.
| [deleted]
| kelnos wrote:
| Gah, I like nearly everything about this, except that a single
| USB-C port is a showstopper for me. I've gone whole-hog USB-C
| over the past 4-5 years, and at this point I only have one thing
| (an old mouse) that connects via USB-A (I've permanently
| connected an adapter to it, so it's fine with USB-C as well).
|
| The other thing is the 1080p screen. I have that on my XPS 13,
| and it's... fine, but not great. The laptop I had before it had a
| higher-res screen, and I liked it much better, though I'm sure it
| negatively affected battery life.
|
| The price point is pretty decent, though. Spec'd the way I'd want
| it, it comes to around $1550 pre-tax. Shame about the USB ports,
| though.
| kingnothing wrote:
| Why not use a dock when you're at your desk to alleviate the
| concerns about the single port?
| imilk wrote:
| I can't really tell from the website, do they make their own
| laptops or are these rebranded Clevos?
| CaptainMarvel wrote:
| Some previous laptops were rebranded Clevo, but the new
| StarBooks are their own design.
| blaaee wrote:
| wonder about this myself
| userbinator wrote:
| Clevos are pretty good as far as right-to-repair is concerned
| --- they have good service manuals with schematics.
| kajaktum wrote:
| Damn, I wished I had bought the mini-PC from them instead!
|
| I really don't understand the appeal of laptops, it only makes
| sense for the people that is really on the move like university
| students or blogger. Even then, they only need cheap laptop for
| browsing (cue memory hod jokes). That or you prefer to do your
| work at public spaces like libraries or cafes.
|
| What's the point of spending huge sums of money on a laptop that
| performs 1/3 compared to its PC equivalent? You're also stuck
| with that keyboard and monitor for the rest of its natural life.
| oblio wrote:
| What do you do if you have to work in the office and there's a
| meeting where you want to demo something? Or you want to
| quickly look up an email with something you want to show to
| others?
| kelnos wrote:
| I haven't regularly sat at a desk using a computer in years. My
| most common locations are on the couch or in bed. Anything but
| a laptop would be incredibly awkward.
|
| And yes, I do more than just web browsing. Mid-range gaming
| (no, I can't play the latest graphics-heavy titles on this kind
| of hardware, but I don't mind), development, etc.
| abdulmuhaimin wrote:
| space - you have to have at least 1 dedicated desk for your
| desktop.
|
| mobility - You can do your work in places other you
| workplaces/home. Change of scenery/environment is trivial. even
| inside your own house, you can work from your own bedroom,
| kitchen, lounge, garden, wherever you want.
|
| Your last point is baffling, really. Just treat it like any PC.
| If you dont want to use the screen/keyboard/trackpad just
| connect what you want to the laptop.
|
| Actually I dont see the point of mini PC. Theyre just desktop
| that you can lug without monitor and any input devices. What's
| the point of spending huge sums of money on a mini PC that
| performs 1/2.9 compared to its PC equivalent?
| Beltalowda wrote:
| > Actually I dont see the point of mini PC. Theyre just
| desktop that you can lug without monitor and any input
| devices. What's the point of spending huge sums of money on a
| mini PC that performs 1/2.9 compared to its PC equivalent?
|
| It's cheaper for the same specs; for example this StaBook
| with the 5800U is EUR1074, but their mini-PC with the same
| CPU is EUR786: EUR288 cheaper! You can also put a 2.5" SSD in
| it next to the MMC drive (my E585 also allows this, but many
| laptops don't). And for a lot of "serious work" I use my USB
| keyboard and HDMI screen anyway: the laptop doesn't really
| give any advantages here.
| goosedragons wrote:
| Right but you can get a faster full fat desktop for the
| same price that'll let you shove in 3.5" and 2.5" drives if
| you want, typically have higher RAM ceilings too, etc. Even
| in my tiny apartment the volume taken up by an ATX case
| isn't too much.
| Beltalowda wrote:
| I don't need more RAM or drives though (these things
| support 64G RAM), and mini-PCs are just a lot smaller
| than a full desktop.
| kragen wrote:
| I'm using this laptop in bed right now, and I took it over to
| my in-laws' house the other day. And yeah maybe I'll go to a
| cafe tomorrow, that sounds great.
| jamal-kumar wrote:
| I travel constantly and get to do my job from a hammock instead
| of some ass-destroying desk and chair.
|
| A desktop computer would be like a ball and chain against that
| level of freedom.
| oblio wrote:
| > I travel constantly and get to do my job from a hammock
| instead of some ass-destroying desk and chair.
|
| I highly doubt that the ergonomics of the hammock setup you
| have going are any good. And by ergonomics, I mean RSI and
| other related posture injuries.
| jamal-kumar wrote:
| I'm in my 30s, been doing this since I've been 23, and
| absolutely zero issues related to that so far. Everyone I
| know who has RSI from this line of work seems to be unlucky
| mostly, so maybe it's just me, but I think it's mostly a
| matter of getting up and walking or running around for
| around 15 minutes for every hour of sedentary activity,
| stretches, underwater ocean swimming for the lungs... All
| things WAY more likely to give me an RSI just from stepping
| in the wrong place or whatever other exercise-related
| injury. Not like I spend hours in strange positions acting
| like I'm a three toed sloth
| makeitdouble wrote:
| This comes as a reminder that good, high resolution screens are
| not a given yet.
|
| Every other specs are configurable or look decent enough, and it
| seems to be a well thought, very competent product. I image not
| getting a screen on-par with current macbooks for instance to be
| something that was just not feasible, and clearly not an
| oversight.
| blkhawk wrote:
| I was interested, but sadly the German keyboards are only
| available in combination with an intel 11th gen mobile CPU. I
| really wanted the Ryzen variant. I wonder if the keyboard can be
| bought separately - the layout at least looked compatible with
| that. Another point against it is the screen resolution - I
| really wanted to have a 1440p screen this time around.
| darrenf wrote:
| I got one of these in December 2021 and frankly love it. Got fed
| up with being pretty much the only person on earth who had a
| shitty experience with Apple Silicon, so jumped back to Linux
| after 17 years away. I don't use it as a portable, or at least
| haven't yet - it's my daily driver for work and permanently
| plugged in to a monitor (which also is a USB hub). I opted for
| Manjaro and enjoy using it way more than I did the M1 macbook pro
| it replaced.
|
| I really like that they provide a detailed pictorial complete
| disassembly guide:
| https://support.starlabs.systems/kb/guides/starbook-mk-v-com...
| mateuszf wrote:
| I have StarBook MK IV and also love it. Works great with NixOS.
| GordonS wrote:
| Looks like a nice machine, a d a great price too!
|
| Is there really only a single USB-C port, and is that port also
| needed for charging? Does that port support DisplayPort?
|
| Thanks!
| ikurei wrote:
| There is a DC barrel plug for charging too.
|
| The USB-C port is Thunderbolt 4. I think that means it should
| support DP too, but don't take my word for it.
| USB-C/Thunderbolt confuse me.
| silon42 wrote:
| I'm more interested in DP alternate mode than full
| Thunderbolt...
| ceefan wrote:
| From the specs page:
|
| HDMI version: 2.0
|
| USB-C Interface: DisplayPort (DP Alt Mode)
|
| USB-C version: Thunderbolt 4 (up to 40 Gbps) [Intel only]
|
| USB-A version: 3.2 Gen 1 (up to 5 Gbps)
|
| Simultaneously supports full native resolution on the
| built-in display and up to two displays with 4096x2304
| resolution at 60Hz
| yardstick wrote:
| What put you off the M1? I'm still on an Intel MBP but fear my
| eventual switch to an M1 will be frustrating.
| outside1234 wrote:
| Me as well - I am super happy with M1. Honestly have never
| experienced anything that is different from running on Intel
| - and it is light years faster and quieter and cooler.
| mateuszf wrote:
| My guess would be Linux support if one wants to use it
| instead of OSX.
| FinalBriefing wrote:
| I've had no issues running Alpine Docker containers on an
| M1.
| bonestamp2 wrote:
| Ya, I'm curious too. We have developers in every level of our
| stack using M1 macs and nobody has anything but good things
| to say. I suspect it is an edge case that doesn't affect a
| lot of users, which is a reasonable complaint and also
| somewhat expected when switching silicon paradigms.
|
| The only downside I've seen is that I can't seem to tax it,
| which has made me lazy -- I now have hundreds of chrome tabs
| open over dozens of windows and it hasn't skipped a beat.
| darrenf wrote:
| So I changed jobs in May 2021. Had been a happy Intel mac
| user since the intel switch (my first Mac was a PowerBook).
| New employer supplied me an M1 MBP and I was fucking
| delighted, since I didn't have the means to buy my own at the
| time.
|
| Contrary to other comments later, I have no niche needs.
| Well... I'm predominantly a Perl coder, so that's niche but
| nothing to do with architecture. I spend most of my days with
| just iTerm, a couple of browsers, Slack. Not much else. I've
| been an edit-over-ssh developer for 20 years.
|
| My M1 was also my first experience of Big Sur, so I was never
| sure whether my issue was hardware or software. But issues I
| had:
|
| * frequently it would stop all ipv4 networking, going ipv6
| only (which in practical terms meant I went offline)
|
| * I would often - multiple times a week - lose all sound
| devices. Suddenly things would go silent, and all
| inputs/outputs (including the built in speakers/mic) would
| disappear from preferences. For a while only a reboot would
| fix it, until I learned to `killall coreaudiod`
|
| * chrome would often say "you don't have a camera", which I
| could only fix by a reboot (we use Google Meet, and safari
| was always terrible with it. But I just prefer chrome anyway)
|
| I had a variety of other problems but can't recall them
| clearly enough to list them, especially from this temporal
| distance.
|
| [EDITED to add: I did go through hardware checks and company
| IT checks, but nothing ever came up as faulty]
|
| I _did_ love that it was silent and permanently cool, but
| that was about it. Since it too was always plugged in, any
| difference in trackpad or keyboard or battery life made zero
| odds to me, and that's why those things don't matter to me
| about the Starbook either.
|
| When Monterey came out I upgraded and actually things got
| _mostly_ (but not entirely) better. But by that time I'd
| ordered the Starbook, and the desktop Linux experience has
| been so good - not to mention just a refreshing change - that
| I don't regret it one bit. And if I do, well, the work MBP is
| sat in the corner and I can resurrect it...
| chewmieser wrote:
| I was originally planning on waiting until like M2 but ended
| up needing an upgrade sooner than I had hoped for both my
| personal (2011) and work laptops (2016) and just have to say
| that M1 has been awesome so far. Snappy, low power
| consumption, much better cooling...
|
| I was on an Intel MBP previously and everything I was using
| it for is supported just fine on M1. Some things require
| Rosetta but most big apps have updated support for M1
| directly at this point.
|
| Our docker development environment was based on x64 but it
| was pretty trivial to add support for ARM to it.
|
| Gaming can be a challenge (when hasn't it been with Mac
| though), particularly GamePass games (through Parallels
| Windows 11) seems to be a hit-or-miss. Games through Steam,
| even virtualized through Parallels, have been fine though. On
| my M1 Max w/ 64GB memory I can play everything I've tried at
| ultra settings.
| bdcravens wrote:
| > Our docker development environment was based on x64 but
| it was pretty trivial to add support for ARM to it.
|
| A couple of examples I've run into that weren't trivial:
| Chrome on Linux doesn't support ARM (Chromium does), nor
| does Microsoft's SQL Server Docker image (though their
| Azure version of SQL Server does, and for most, it's no
| real difference)
| Sakos wrote:
| I'd understand this position back when the M1 was first
| launched, but I'm not sure why anybody would still hold it
| now unless they have obscure or niche needs. Switched to an
| M1 MBP a few weeks back and the _only_ issue I 've found so
| far is Parallels won't attach my Xbox controller to Windows
| 11 Arm for some reason. I'm very happy otherwise.
| bdcravens wrote:
| Macbook Air requires you to get a DisplayLink hub to support
| multiple monitors.
|
| Macbook Pro eliminated this limitation, but it almost feels
| like it's using the same technology, as it often loses window
| locations.
|
| Early on software support was limited, but for many apps,
| that's been resolved. (Even "unsupported" apps can still run,
| though I typically don't jump through many hoops, especially
| when I run into Docker images that don't support ARM)
| rob_c wrote:
| btw, just so you know, it doesn't come with arch :P
| X-Istence wrote:
| Why only a single USB-C port? Almost everything I buy these days
| has only USB-C ports/cables/charging.
|
| It's gotten to the point now that I am increasingly frustrated
| with the fact that there are no good USB-C capable hubs that take
| a USB-C USB 4 and turn it into an 8 port USB-C hub. With a mix of
| 10 Gbps/5 Gbps/480 Mbps speeds.
|
| I can get plenty of USB-C to USB-A hubs, but that is not what I
| want.
| eatbitseveryday wrote:
| https://www.caldigit.com/thunderbolt-4-element-hub/
|
| Gives you power and three usbc.
| derefr wrote:
| I believe that when companies do this, it's because there's
| only a single Thunderbolt controller on-board the host, and
| they think that giving people two USB-C ports, where _either_
| port can do Thunderbolt, but you can 't use _two_ Thunderbolt
| devices (in actual Thunderbolt mode, where you 're passing
| through PCIe lanes) at once, would be too confusing. So they
| force you to buy a hub or dock -- pushing the consumer's blame
| for this confusing quagmire onto the peripheral manufacturer.
|
| > 8 port USB-C hub
|
| And I believe a major reason for the lack of _these_ , is that,
| if a dock/hub/etc. that _consumes_ a USB4 /Thunderbolt host
| port, wants to be able to expose a full-speed USB4/Thunderbolt
| downstream port of its own, then that port isn't going to work
| for peripherals that are picky about speeds/lanes if you have
| any other USB devices plugged into the hub. So vendors choose
| "the ability to plug a single Thunderbolt device in, plus other
| things" over "the ability to plug a bunch of USB4/3.2 devices
| in."
| kragen wrote:
| On the plus side it does have three USB A ports, and it has a
| barrel charging port instead of one of those shitty USB-C ports
| for power. And you can plug USB-C-charging things into a USB A
| port with just an adaptor cable.
| PeterisP wrote:
| Having a barrel charging port is a serious flaw. I have many
| devices, but I expect to carry a single charger for all of
| them; if my laptop has a non-USB-C charger than I need a
| separate charger for the headphones/phone/Kindle/etc which is
| extra weight to carry around, extra mess and e-waste.
|
| The world has moved to a single standard for charging for all
| devices, we're just waiting for the "transition period" to
| run out as the devices with nonstandard charging expire, it's
| inappropriate to design new hardware with an obsolete
| charging approach.
| stragies wrote:
| I like it, when both USBC charging, and BarrelJackCharging
| are available. So I can use the BarrelJackAdapter at home
| for when in "DeskMode", and only need to travel with the
| USB-C charger, that can also charge all my other devices.
|
| Also makes for the possibility of "Redundant Power Supply",
| in case you use your old Laptop as a "HomeServer".
| yencabulator wrote:
| > Also makes for the possibility of "Redundant Power
| Supply", in case you use your old Laptop as a
| "HomeServer".
|
| Most laptops with multiple USB-C ports should be able to
| charge from any port.
| wildrhythms wrote:
| I don't understand; why not use USB-C at home too? It has
| enough power. At best, the barrel charger is just more
| e-waste for a landfill.
| Mister_Snuggles wrote:
| Yeah, I'd actually use the barrel charger on the road so
| that it can just live in my backpack and USB-C (provided
| by an appropriate dock that's connected to a keyboard,
| monitor, etc) at home.
| stragies wrote:
| Depending on what/where/how I hook up in DeskMode, I also
| have Power on USB-C. Mainly depends on how/where I want
| to route DP/HDMI-output. Also, POE-to-BarrelJack is a
| thing, while POE-to-USB-C-with-more-than-5V is not.
| kragen wrote:
| NavinF wrote:
| Link broken. Remove the semicolon.
|
| > my experience with USB charging ports is that they
| always break, and then they're a huge pain to fix, and my
| experience with barrel charging ports is that they almost
| never break, and then fixing them is pretty easy
|
| The opposite for me. I've broken a proprietary charge
| port and had to wait over a week for the replacement.
| Never broke a USB-C port, but if I did it'd be no big
| deal since I have plenty of C connectors in my cabinet. I
| can solder a replacement in 10 minutes.
|
| > So I think of a computer that can only be charged via
| USB as a piece of cheap trash. Maybe USB-C is different
| on this axis
|
| Wait are you saying you've owned a laptop that charges
| over USB, but not USB-C? If so that laptop really was
| cheap trash. Why compare trash with flagship products?
| stormbrew wrote:
| USB-A (or quasi-USB-A) charge ports on laptops were a
| weird abberation for a while. I had a dell with that, and
| it's now one of the few laptops I've got that I might
| never be able to power on properly again because the
| power delivery over the port is 100% proprietary and the
| AC adapter for it is busted. I don't think there's ever
| been a high wattage PD standard for USB-A? Even with
| USB3. So any version of it was just some manufacturer's
| attempt to jump the gate on PD over USB-C.
|
| USB-C is a completely different ballgame here. It has its
| flaws but it's nothing at all like that weird little era
| of laptops.
| spuz wrote:
| This laptop also has USB-C charging.
| kelnos wrote:
| It's funny; my reaction is the opposite. Yes, I think the
| barrel charging port is good to have, but _only_ because
| there is just a single USB-C port. I don 't want a barrel
| port! I have USB-C chargers littered around my house already!
| And that's how I like it!
|
| And I definitely don't want my default to have to be using
| adapters for my USB-C devices, so they can be plugged into
| the USB-A ports.
| kragen wrote:
| I guess my experience with USB charging ports is that they
| always break, and then they're a huge pain to fix, and my
| experience with barrel charging ports is that they almost
| never break, and then fixing them is pretty easy. So I
| think of a computer that can only be charged via USB as a
| piece of cheap trash. Maybe USB-C is different on this
| axis; I don't know yet. I really miss barrel charging ports
| on cellphones. I don't know, maybe I just abuse my
| hardware.
| kelnos wrote:
| Ah, interesting. I guess I've been much luckier; I've
| never had a USB-C charging port break on me.
| pmontra wrote:
| I never had problems with USB-A ports but I'm not using
| them much. All my laptops had barrel ports and I'm not
| using external keyboard or mice. A USB-B port started to
| get loose on a phone of mine after 6 years of use. I
| didn't use any USB-C port for more than 4 years yet. They
| look sturdier but time will tell.
| autoexec wrote:
| Yeah, I wish USB was designed to be a little more sturdy
| in general. I find it disconnects a little too easily
| (compared with most chargers/AC adapters), breaks far
| more often, and even the cables I encounter are thinner
| and more easy to damage.
|
| If we're settling on "charge/power everything with USB!"
| I hope the next version (USB F?) holds up better to more
| "abuse" than charging a phone on s desk or end table
| inflicts.
| stragies wrote:
| Yes, please! Ideally, also with POE .bt Power Supply
| possibility (upto 80W), and compliant to USB
| PerPortPowerSetting specification, to be able to toggle power
| to each port comfortably with uhubctl/Home_assistant/etc.
| stormbrew wrote:
| 8 ports is high expectations, I don't think there's anything
| really there, but there is a 3 port tb4 hub by plugable[1], and
| you can I think daisy chain multiple together. Pretty expensive
| to get up to 8 though, never mind all the power bricks to get
| the power necessary.
|
| [1] https://plugable.com/products/tbt4-hub3c
| mysterypie wrote:
| You can choose between American Megatrends and coreboot. They
| have a FAQ with the pros and cons[1]. But I have a hard time
| seeing why anyone would choose the proprietary American
| Megatrends firmware, especially since the laptop is targeted
| towards Linux users. Are they offering the choice for their older
| customers who are used to the American Megatrends UI? Or maybe to
| not anger the supplier (American Megatrends) that they've been
| working with for years?
|
| [1] https://support.starlabs.systems/kb/faqs/ami-aptio-v-vs-
| core...
| lozenge wrote:
| They get the AM firmware for free from the chipset
| manufacturer.
| Jhsto wrote:
| I'm not well versed in UEFI firmware, but how is this possible:
|
| > Due to how lightweight coreboot is, it will offer better
| performance and lower power consumption. For example, the
| LabTop Mk IV combined with coreboot will offer approximately 8%
| more performance and around 20% longer battery life (with a
| record of 13 hours and 42 minutes for general use).
| dharmab wrote:
| The AM firmware updates are signed and Coreboot is not.
| mysterypie wrote:
| I don't think I'd make that security tradeoff. From best to
| worst, I'd rank the options is this order:
|
| (1) signed open source
|
| (2) unsigned open source
|
| (3) signed proprietary
|
| (4) unsigned proprietary
|
| In some cases I might rank #3 as the worst option if it
| prevents me from editing the firmware binary (to fix a
| security bug myself or to remove tracking info like a serial
| number), reverse engineering the firmware to verify it
| (because signed code is often encrypted as well), or
| installing alternate firmware that might be more secure.
| tailspin2019 wrote:
| If anyone from Star Labs is here, I'd encourage a bit of a QA
| review of your site!
| ManyPeopleSay wrote:
| The screen is atrocious. Apple has been using HIDPI 220ppi
| displays on macbooks since 2012. No we dont need a matte display.
| Ever see a matte smartphone?
|
| linux does NOT SUPPORT fractional scaling.
| nukenuke wrote:
| When I loaded the website it was slowly going incrementally
| through different intel generations. So I thought for a second
| they were offering versions with older intel chips. But the page
| was just animating slowly.
| ZeroGravitas wrote:
| What's the equivalent of this for someone who wants to bring
| their own keyboard?
|
| Is there a Linux tablet that can both act like a tablet and also
| be the screen (and heart) of a developers "laptop" if paired with
| a external keyboard?
|
| Some kind of detachable "hub" that gives more IO options is
| optional.
| funerr wrote:
| This is also a great idea when traveling!
| Otek wrote:
| Recently Asus dropped new ROG tablet which looks powerful
| enough, but I don't know if linux would work on it.
|
| Edit: it's ROG Flow Z13
| hushpuppy wrote:
| They have a mini PC "Star Labs Byte".
|
| Basically a laptop sans keyboard, display, and internal
| battery.
| cloudengineer94 wrote:
| Looks like the EU version of Framework! Funny enough they do give
| a Ryzen option which is pretty cool.
|
| Would love to go back to a PC running Linux but for the time
| being macOS + Brew on MacBook Air/14" is the way to go due to the
| battery life and performance.
|
| Oh and my 14" as a heck of a screen.
| gigatexal wrote:
| Might have found my Intel MacBook replacement
| yzmtf2008 wrote:
| Tangantially related, I remember reading the Asahi Linux wiki
| [0], and was shocked by this statement about Apple Silicon
| machines. It's fascinating that Apple has a reputation for being
| anti-libre, yet the hardware they built is arguably very libre-
| friendly.
|
| > This puts them somewhere between x86 PCs and a libre-first
| system like the Talos II in terms of freedom to replace firmware
| and boot components; while a number of blobs are required in
| order to boot the system, none of those have the ability to take
| over the OS or compromise it post-boot (unlike, say, Intel ME and
| AMD PSP on recent systems, or the DMA-capable chips on the LPC
| bus running opaque blobs that exist on even old ThinkPads).
|
| > From a security perspective, these machines may possibly
| qualify as the most secure general purpose computers available to
| the public which support third-party OSes, in terms of resistance
| to attack by non-owners.
|
| [0]: https://github.com/AsahiLinux/docs/wiki/Introduction-to-
| Appl...
| thawaya3113 wrote:
| It was probably easier for them to be more libre than less
| during early development. This has often been the case with
| Apple products.
|
| Don't worry. They will lock it down.
| amelius wrote:
| Yes, they will lock it down. Hopefully not by blowing some
| fuses in previously sold devices ...
| Tagbert wrote:
| People have been proclaiming that for years. "Just wait,
| Apple will only let you install their software on their
| machines. It's going to happen soon. Anytime."
| ChuckNorris89 wrote:
| _> yet the hardware they built is arguably very libre-friendly_
|
| Well they're already in legal trouble for abusing their iOS
| market dominance with the new EU proposed legislation, they
| know the tides are turning against big tech, so they didn't
| lock down the MacBooks preemptively to brace themselves for
| what's coming, not because Apple has somehow now become a FOSS
| supporter.
|
| Before you applaud Apple for being too libre and think the
| company has changed direction, keep in mind this is the same
| company that ships recently launched monitors without user
| replaceable power cords and locks out in firmware the
| possibility to upgrade the SSDs on the very expensive Mac
| Studio despite teardowns showing that it's phisically possible
| by end users.
|
| Also, as a curiosity, why is every thread related to a X86
| news, need to bring in the Apple M1 fan army and bang their
| drums? They serve completely different markets. For those
| consumers or companies that need to run X86 windows/Linux
| binaries that have no Mac ports, M1 based hardware is off the
| table from the start. And the device from this topic is
| designed to cater to that market, not to compete with M1.
| yokoprime wrote:
| > Also, as a curiosity, why is every thread related to a X86
| news, need to bring in the Apple M1 fan army and bang their
| drums?
|
| What do you mean? The root post complains about M1 and thus
| it was brought up. It's not like an Apple bro army parachuted
| in and started comparing x86 to the M1
| outside1234 wrote:
| Honestly I have both a Linux machine and an M1 MacBook Pro -
| so I am interested in both!
| lumost wrote:
| I suspect everyone is waiting for the news to drop that
| either a top of line ARM machine is released outside of
| Apple, or for AMD/Intel to announce a competitive ARM chip.
|
| Computer enthusiasts have heard for ages that X86 is bloated,
| and that alternate instruction sets are better _if only_ the
| tooling good catch up. Now that Apple is pushing ARM across
| the line, and ARM servers are becoming popular - folks want
| to see the linux ARM machine.
| cultofmetatron wrote:
| this describes me to a T. I'm dying for a nice arm laptop
| with a good form factor with open source bios running
| linux.
| bzzzt wrote:
| > Before you applaud Apple for being too libre and think the
| company has changed direction, keep in mind this is the same
| company that ships recently launched monitors without user
| replaceable power cords and locks out in firmware the
| possibility to upgrade the SSDs on the very expensive Mac
| Studio despite teardowns showing that it's phisically
| possible by end users.
|
| I don't get all those accusations that are constantly
| recirculated on tech forums. A non-removable power cord has a
| big advantage: it's hard to lose it. I've never damaged a
| power cord before (or heard of someone who had) so is it
| really that damning you should go to a repair shop for
| something like that? Also, Apple never advertised removable
| SSD modules. I don't care what they put in that box as long
| as it works as advertised.
| ChuckNorris89 wrote:
| _> A non-removable power cord has a big advantage: it's
| hard to lose it._
|
| How could you possibly loose a monitor power cord? It's not
| a portable device that you travel with. But in a home or
| office setting I can certainly see the cord getting crimped
| under the weight of the feet of desks or chairs.
|
| _> so is it really that damning you should go to a repair
| shop for something like that?_
|
| Yes, going with your equipment to an Apple Store enquires
| down time and extra costs that wouldn't be a problem if you
| could swap the cable yourself in two minutes.
|
| Heck, they already do that with the excellent removable
| mag-safe power cable on the Studio display. Come on!
| Seriously. They proved they can do it but choose not to
| because f _ck the consumers and the environment.
|
| _ >Also, Apple never advertised removable SSD modules. I
| don't care what they put in that box as long as it works as
| advertised.*
|
| That's the problem. It's not about you, it's about the
| environment and the e-waste that these company's products
| generate because while they could be more user upgradable
| and repairable like the old Macs were that people still
| upgrade and use today, Apple now spends resources to make
| sure their new products are not upgradable or repairable,
| in order to have you buy more of their stuff instead of
| keep using their old products for longer.
| bzzzt wrote:
| > How could you possibly loose a monitor power cord? In a
| 'flex' office environment where people are regularly
| relocating I expect lots of people missing small stuff
| like cables.
|
| > I can certainly see the cord getting crimped by
| furniture and damaged under the weight of the feet of
| desks or chair legs. And yet I've never seen such a
| damaged chord.
|
| > it's about the environment and the e-waste that these
| company's products generate because while they could be
| more user upgradable and repairable like the old Macs
| were the people still upgrade and use No one in their
| right mind would want to be dependent on hardware running
| toward the end of the bell curve for anything 'mission
| critical'. Also, why do you think those SSD modules are
| removable? Probably saves you quite a lot when one dies
| since you don't have to replace the logic board.
| dylan604 wrote:
| >cable on the Studio display.
|
| This is an interesting bit about how the same company can
| "design" so many different ways to do the same thing. I
| wouldn't expect them to have a dedicated team to design
| power cords/sockets. So teams designing different
| products at the same time will probably have slightly
| varying designs. Then I go back to that's what VPs are
| for to see what's going on within each design team and
| see how good ideas from one can be shared in the other
| teams.
|
| In other words, how can something as cool and useful as
| Magsafe be on one thing and not obviously mandated to be
| used on all the things?
| newaccount74 wrote:
| It's often useful to be able to replace a power cord with a
| longer one -- depending on your setup the standard 2m cord
| might be too short. Extension cables are pretty unsightly,
| especially with big grounded plugs like the Schuko plug we
| have in Austria.
|
| It's also useful in some setups to use power cords with
| right-angled connectors, because they make cable management
| easier.
|
| Also, moving to another country is easier with standard
| sockets: just get a couple of new power cables from any
| random hardware store and you're good to go!
| oblio wrote:
| > A non-removable power cord has a big advantage: it's hard
| to lose it.
|
| Lose??? The power cord for a big monitor???
|
| The mental gymnastics are amazing! Good old Stevie J., now
| turned zombie, still projecting the distortion field.
| linspace wrote:
| The Emperor of Mankind [1], the most powerful psyker
| ever, still protecting humanity from the forces of Chaos
| 10000 years after his death.
|
| [1]
| https://warhammer40k.fandom.com/wiki/Emperor_of_Mankind
| pfortuny wrote:
| Not trying to nitpick. Probably the parent might have
| meant "forget it when moving the monitor to a different
| place". This happens more often than one may think once
| you have trashed the box the monitor came in.
|
| But yes, it is a bit strange to write it down as an
| "advantage".
| oblio wrote:
| Those cables are standard and a dime a dozen.
|
| Well, they are a dime a dozen now, because Apple hasn't
| gotten their paws on them fully :-)
| Casteil wrote:
| > Also, as a curiosity, why is every thread related to a X86
| news, need to bring in the Apple M1 fan army and bang their
| drums?
|
| Honestly? Efficiency & battery life without sacrificing
| speed/performance.
|
| If you need great battery life (or simply don't want to have
| to worry about charging your laptop frequently), it's hard to
| swallow ~4-10h battery life of a typical X86 laptop when
| MBA/MBP are consistently achieving 10-16+ with real-world
| use.
|
| ...not to mention the other perks MacBooks hold over their
| competitors, e.g. fit/finish, display quality, speakers, etc.
|
| >They serve completely different markets.
|
| Do they, though? With so many things being web-based these
| days, it's not very hard for most people (without specific
| needs) to switch to an M1 as their primary device without
| experiencing problems.
| ChuckNorris89 wrote:
| What use is all those perks for those of us, if the apps we
| use for work and play are not compiled for M1 nor web
| based? Meanwhile my "inferior" x86 machine can run
| everything I need to use.
|
| Why do people insist you need to buy a Ferrari when your
| work or lifestyle requires an F-150?
|
| Therefore, back to my original question, why do M1 fans
| need go off topic on every X86 article and spray the same
| things over and over again: "but muh' Geekbench score",
| "muh' excellent battery life", "muh' no fan noise" and
| insist you're wrong for choosing to go X86 even though you
| don't have a choice because of the architecture.
|
| We know the pros, Ok? But some of us still need X86 machine
| like the one in the article, regardless if those are
| machines not for you. And if they're not for you, that's
| fine, but why always bang on with the M1 trope everywhere?
| StellarTabi wrote:
| > Why do people insist you need to buy a Ferrari
|
| The cheapest M1 laptop is actually really affordable,
| almost the same price as this laptop's cheapest
| configuration. This is probably the exact product I would
| be looking for if I were trying to avoid buying from
| Apple. I couldn't find anything on cooling/fans, so IDK
| if this will be another standard Intel jet engine and lap
| burner.
| serenitylater wrote:
| The comment section isn't a zero-sum game. The fact that
| alternatives to the x86 are brought up in the comments
| section could be useful for many people, it might not be
| for you, but it is for many people. To use your own
| analogy, how many people are currently sputtering around
| the USA in pickup trucks that don't require a F-150?
| ponyous wrote:
| Genuinely wondering, why specifically do _you_ need x86?
| Some legacy software? Is the compatibility layer not
| working (Rosetta or how is it called?)?
| ChuckNorris89 wrote:
| I need to run Windows video games (new and vintage),
| Linux tools for penetration testing and windows and Linux
| tools for embedded development and reverse engineering
| none of which have M1 ports.
|
| On top of the software I can't run on M1, I can't stand,
| from an ergonomic perspective, MacOS's rigid opinionated
| workflow and Apple's stance on upgradability,
| repairability and general environmental unfriendliness,
| plus their pricing on RAM and NAND storage wich have two
| to four times the markups I can gen get on the free
| market for the Framework (RAM and Storage are more
| important to me than screaming M1 performance) but that's
| besides the point, my main point is that I can't run my
| software and tools on the M1, so I don't understand why
| everyone on HN wants to crucify you for using X86 instead
| of M1.
| dylan604 wrote:
| >I need to run Windows video games (new and vintage)
|
| Need? I'm not judging for what one does in their own
| time, but _need_? Is that really true, or are we pushing
| this term just a bit for dramatic purposes? Like, are you
| getting paid for running this games? Are the use of these
| games part of your actual J O B? If so, then yes, I 'll
| agree need is accurate.
| egypturnash wrote:
| I think you are perhaps getting a bit attached to that
| one particular word. Mr. Norris89 may or may not _need_
| to run old Windows games the way he probably _needs_ to
| breathe, but he can certainly say "a computer needs to
| run old Windows games if I'm gonna buy it". The phrase "I
| need to run old Windows games" is easily understood as
| that.
| dylan604 wrote:
| I'll agree with your first example but still question the
| use of need in your second.
| alsobrsp wrote:
| > when MBA/MBP are consistently achieving 10-16+ with real-
| world use.
|
| I never get more than a couple hours on my MBP, 2.5-3 tops.
| dmd wrote:
| Then there's something physically wrong with it. My M1
| MBP - which is near-constantly at 100% CPU doing
| neuroimaging tasks - gets about 9 hours. If I'm not
| running high-cpu tasks and just web browsing, I've gotten
| 13-18 typically (e.g., two full days of use between
| charges).
| dylan604 wrote:
| >If I'm not running high-cpu tasks and just web browsing,
|
| You state this as if they are 2 different things. Sadly,
| more and more shittily designed sites are using more and
| more resources. Whether that's just a poorly written bit
| of JS or a maliciously written bit of JS, web browsing is
| becoming more compute intensive.
| runnerup wrote:
| I believe the M1 is much better at computing JavaScript
| as well. Comparable intel x86 CPUs have 60% more branch
| misprediction during JS benchmarks and ARMv8.3-A added
| the processor instruction FJCVTZS (Floating-point
| Javascript Convert to Signed fixed-point, rounding toward
| Zero).
|
| Especially due to the better branch prediction, the M1
| simply does quite a bit more web browsing with fewer VPU
| cycles used, thus less power consumption.
| throwntoday wrote:
| Let me guess the device is over two years old, your
| display is always above 70% brightness, you have chrome
| opened with over a dozen tabs, alongside it a bunch of
| other background apps you don't actually need open. Oh
| and probably a VM or docker. How close was I? ;-)
| runnerup wrote:
| The only one that matters is if their MBP is over 2 years
| old. I got my M1 the week it released and I _only_ run it
| under the conditions you describe. Sometimes accidentally
| leaving baldurs gate 3 / Stellaris / Civ6 running in the
| background.
|
| It still gets a battery life of "oh I showed up to an
| all-day working session with a friend with 50% battery
| life and forgot my charger and I don't have any anxiety
| about that" battery life.
|
| I think the least it's ever gotten was around 10 hours.
| I'm still getting 14+ after a couple years of abusing the
| battery charge levels.
|
| The iPhone 13 Pro Max is also the first phone I truly
| never worry about battery life since a late-stage flip
| phone in 2007. (Or the Samsung S5 Active which had a
| replaceable battery, I just carried a couple extra around
| in my pocket).
| throwntoday wrote:
| >The only one that matters is if their MBP is over 2
| years old
|
| I wasn't just asking because of the potential wear on the
| battery from abuse, but M1 laptops did not exist 2 years
| ago. Although the intel macbooks still had great battery
| life for their size. People who put their device through
| it's paces and wonder why the battery is draining so fast
| are a special breed that's for sure.
| sokoloff wrote:
| Intel or M1 CPU?
| als0 wrote:
| Sounds like what's normal for a mid aged Intel Macbook.
| uuyi wrote:
| Err the monitor has a user replaceable power cord. I have one
| and removed it fine. It's different because an IEC lead won't
| fit in the design envelope. Even the stand can be replaced.
|
| The SSD is also a misnomer. The influencers couldn't put a
| normal SSD in a mac and make it boot. But they don't
| understand that there is integration with the crypto at
| hardware level. And there's no reason to suspect that apple
| won't provide SSD replacements on the open market as part of
| their self repair program.
|
| This is the power of crappy influencer bloggers. Distributing
| misinformation which everyone parrots verbatim. They are a
| cancer on the planet and so are the followers.
|
| Realistically these are absolutely trivial issues in the
| scale of things blown way out of proportion by people looking
| for problems rather than actually using the hardware.
| SahAssar wrote:
| Apple themselves say "Note: The power cord is not removable
| from the display." here: https://support.apple.com/en-
| gb/guide/studio-display/apdf106...
| uuyi wrote:
| It comes off. And you can get them to replace it in an
| apple store.
|
| I think this is mixed messaging to be honest.
| ChuckNorris89 wrote:
| _> It comes off. _
|
| Everything comes off if you yank on it hard enough. Even
| the fingers on your hand. That's not how great UX or
| environmentally friendly repairability works though.
|
| _> I think this is mixed messaging to be honest._
|
| Regardless what it is, it's Apple's fault here. They
| claim it's officially not user replaceable. Good luck
| with a warranty claim if you yank on it and break
| something, as Apple's position is clear: You're not
| supposed to remove it yourself.
|
| And how about Apple's famous "we care about our CO2
| emissions so much, we removed the iPhone charger to save
| the environment", if now you're saying you should make
| CO2 emissions and drive your monitor to the Apple store
| to replace a friggin power cord that can be done at home
| on any other monitor on the planet.
|
| It's infuriating.
| uuyi wrote:
| Tagbert wrote:
| It is not intended to be user removable but it is
| certainly replaceable if damaged. What is the big deal?
| ChuckNorris89 wrote:
| _> The influencers couldn't put a normal SSD in a mac and
| make it boot._
|
| No, Linus put the SSD from another Mac Studio into the
| second slot of a Mac Studio and it wouldn't boot, and it
| wouldn't even run recovery to format everything and do a
| factory reset. So Apple is obviously firmware locking the
| Mac Studios to their factory configuration despite only
| genuine Apple hardware being used in the upgrade.
| geraneum wrote:
| I always liked the LTT videos and was a subscriber. I
| don't think there's anything wrong with reviewing
| products and having a certain opinion, however Linus has
| a stake in a company which makes laptops whose main
| selling point is the ability to upgrade and repair the
| parts (Framework). He has a horse in the race. This
| doesn't automatically disqualify him from having an
| opinion, at the same time I don't value his opinion as
| much as an independent reviewer like Steve at GN.
|
| That is troubling for me and I believe is not a super
| ethical practice!
|
| Edit: Fix grammar mistake
| goosedragons wrote:
| That doesn't change the facts though? They don't let you
| upgrade the storage even if you have two first party
| storage cards.
| geraneum wrote:
| It doesn't matter regarding what I said. It's about
| dissing your competitors. Sure that doesn't make it a lie
| but it's better if people know where you stand; As an
| independent reviewer vs shareholder of a competitor
| brand.
|
| It also affects how he presents the facts and directs the
| videos.
|
| I say this while loving Framework and hoping that their
| approach puts pressure on likes of Apple for openness. No
| sympathy for Apple here.
| rvense wrote:
| This is cart before horse. Linus worked with PCs for
| years and saw (obvious) problems with Apple's hardware,
| and so he's invested in a solution. He's been critical of
| these things since long before Framework was founded.
| uuyi wrote:
| Linus is only after clicks and subs.
| uuyi wrote:
| Yes you can. You need to use Configurator to do it. It
| has been confirmed by iFixit. It's the same as the Mac
| Pro was: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT210626 . You
| can't just swap a disk. You have to actually re-pair it
| with the crypto and then reprovision it and recovery etc.
|
| Again Linus doesn't know what he's doing. Another
| influencer confirming my point.
|
| This is not a PC. That's where the assumption goes wrong.
| ChuckNorris89 wrote:
| You're making a confusion between replacing and
| upgrading.
|
| He showed you CAN replace the SSD modules but only with
| identic size ones, but you CAN'T upgrade to bigger ones
| as that triggers the firmware lock.
|
| Watch the video he posted he tried what you mentioned.
| uuyi wrote:
| Yet.
|
| Also there's some holes in the back you can upgrade your
| storage with...
| argsnd wrote:
| Literally nobody on YouTube, certainly not Linus, has
| attempted to upgrade the storage modules with a supported
| configuration that the machine is shipped from the
| factory with.
|
| There isn't a single other SSD controller on the market
| that knows how to work with arbitrary quantities of NAND
| flash chips because it's an unnecessary engineering
| challenge, I don't know why anybody thinks it's remotely
| reasonable to expect Apple's to be different.
| d3nj4l wrote:
| > Also, as a curiosity, why is every thread related to a X86
| news, need to bring in the Apple M1 fan army and bang their
| drums?
|
| Because this thread isn't about x86 news; it's about a
| laptop. And Apple makes laptops, which have the M1 chip in
| them. It's completely fair to discuss them, especially
| because one of the selling points of TFA is that it supports
| coreboot.
| holri wrote:
| What proprietary Software does this need to support all hardware?
| ilovecaching wrote:
| I don't understand why the industry hasn't switched over
| completely to hidpi screens. Once you use one you can never go
| back. I feel so bad for people still using 1920x1080 screens.
| Truly the price of freedom is having to squint and lose your
| eyesight, hoping that font tricks can save you, when you could
| just be using a display with a modern amount of pixels on it.
| xanaxagoras wrote:
| I'm torn. A modern amount or pixels comes with a modern amount
| of glare. That's bad for your eyes in a different way.
| slaw wrote:
| I switched from 4k to 1920x1080 and it is enough for me, 400
| nits is too dim to use outdoors.
| elxr wrote:
| Agreed, my next laptop will have to be 1600p at least.
| dangus wrote:
| No high DPI, no buy.
| skocznymroczny wrote:
| Reminds me of ThinkPads. Way too thick for my taste. I'd rather
| get rid of HDMI and USB-A ports in favor of thinness.
| pelorat wrote:
| Looks interesting, but TB4 is a deal-breaker. Why not use USB-PD
| instead?
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