[HN Gopher] Hitler's Teeth Confirm He Died in 1945 (2018)
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Hitler's Teeth Confirm He Died in 1945 (2018)
Author : rmason
Score : 56 points
Date : 2022-04-14 19:01 UTC (4 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.smithsonianmag.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.smithsonianmag.com)
| TazeTSchnitzel wrote:
| I was expecting this to be about radionuclides somehow.
| ComradePhil wrote:
| Russia is lying about Ukraine at the moment but the Soviet Union
| was telling the truth and only truth when it was attacking
| Germany in 1945? OK.
| sofixa wrote:
| It certainly fits all that we know about Hitler and his his
| last days, and the Soviets had zero reason to lie about Hitler,
| they hated his guts.
| endisneigh wrote:
| I've always wondered about these sort of studies. If I gave these
| people a tooth they'd be able to figure out my current age
| accurately?
| fnordpiglet wrote:
| They used chain of custody of the teeth to establish time of
| death. They used the dental records to establish they were the
| same teeth as Hitlers.
| WJW wrote:
| Not that I have any reason to doubt it, but is there a chain
| of custody for the dental records too? Also do we have a
| chain of custody proving the keepers of the chain of custody
| were themselves trustworthy? etc etc etc
|
| A fool can ask more questions than even the wise can answer,
| which is why conspiracy theories are so persistent.
| DoreenMichele wrote:
| Eh, the bodies were burned on purpose to prevent public
| desecration. Then officials apparently seeded the idea of his
| escape.
|
| This will never be put to rest. It's a little like that scene in
| Terminator where the shrink says something like "It's brilliant.
| It doesn't require a shred of proof!"
| pastor_bob wrote:
| Apparently Russians have his skull. Can't they just do DNA
| analysis?
| andai wrote:
| I seem to recall DNA analysis on Hitler's skull (in Russia?)
| showed the skull belonged to a woman.
|
| https://phys.org/news/2009-09-hitler-skull-woman-scientists....
| jjtheblunt wrote:
| They would need a family member to compare similarity with;
| does such exist?
| lb1lf wrote:
| I believe Hitler's relatives made an oath to let the family
| die out, not having any children - but presumably there are
| remains to be dug up if you really want to put the case to
| death (pun intended).
|
| Additionally, surely there must be objects with excellent
| provenance containing Hitler's DNA?
| mardifoufs wrote:
| Why would they do that assuming it's true? That's a bit
| fucked up to be honest but I guess the feeling of guilt can
| be overpowering. And I can't really imagine a better reason
| for feeling guilty than being related to Hitler (even if
| it's irrational, considering at least some of his family
| members barely had any contact with him)
| sammalloy wrote:
| > Why would they do that assuming it's true? That's a bit
| fucked up to be honest but I guess the feeling of guilt
| can be overpowering.
|
| This kind of agreement is incredibly common in families
| with histories of mental illness, drug abuse,
| criminality, and other major issues. I know dozens of
| people who have all agreed to never have children for
| this and various other reasons, and half of them are in
| long-term, committed relationships or married. I don't
| see it as "fucked up" at all; these people are trying to
| be socially responsible for their progeny, some of which
| may have a genetic predisposition towards bad behavior.
| The philosophy of movements like antinatalism and
| childfree are rooted in these ideas and seek to make the
| world better with less humans.
| rightbyte wrote:
| He had a half-brother, Alois Hitler, that has living
| descendants.
| The_rationalist wrote:
| andai wrote:
| (2018)
| 8bitsrule wrote:
| Hitler's _body_ died in 1945. Ideas can live longer.
| hatware wrote:
| What about CLONES?
| The_rationalist wrote:
| jjtheblunt wrote:
| A technology that came fifty years later?
| beej71 wrote:
| Or _did_ it?
| jjtheblunt wrote:
| :)
| archhn wrote:
| DoreenMichele wrote:
| _I 'm sure my comment will be deleted because only offical
| narratives are permitted here._
|
| It might get flagged to death by users but unless _you_ delete
| it, it 's unlikely to be deleted.
|
| You might try using your "I see dead comments" goggles to fact
| check this assertion.
| hatware wrote:
| I can't see what they've typed.
|
| Pretty eerie.
| Sanzig wrote:
| Go to your user profile -> showdead=yes -> update.
|
| You're not missing much in this case.
| archhn wrote:
| [deleted]
| paxys wrote:
| > "The teeth are authentic, there is no possible doubt. Our study
| proves that Hitler died in 1945," Philippe Charlier, lead author
| of the study in the European Journal of Internal Medicine, tells
| AFP. "We can stop all the conspiracy theories about Hitler. He
| did not flee to Argentina in a submarine, he is not in a hidden
| base in Antarctica or on the dark side of the moon."
|
| It's pretty naive to think that a study like this one will do
| anything to shut up conspiracy theorists. You verified the dental
| records? Well teeth on the body could be easily altered. How are
| you sure of the records in the first place? Hospitals didn't have
| good record keeping in the early 1900s, so chances are you don't
| have the original data. Oh and why should we trust this "expert"?
| He's probably working with the establishment.
|
| And so on and so forth..
| oh_sigh wrote:
| The fact that the records are so well known would also mean
| someone could create a fake set, using teeth and materials
| scavenged from the time
| braziljunge wrote:
| Alternatively, one could assume a false record for dentistry
| matching to someone else.
|
| At a nation-state level, this would certainly be a reasonable
| level of "attack." Could come either from German or Soviet
| assets, both having possible motive.
|
| One wonders how the Bin Laden disposal will play in the
| future. Perhaps similarly...
| TeeMassive wrote:
| Why Hitler escaping a "conspiracy theory"? A leader of a losing
| country fleeing for his life is not a far fetched hypothesis,
| especially given how the US actively recruited Nazis through
| Operation Paperclip and Operation Gladio for scientific and
| non-scientific purposes.
|
| I understand and agree that this study seems to put this
| question to rest (I would like to read the actual study tho)
| but just using the label "conspiracy theory" is simply
| intellectual laziness and doesn't advance the conversation.
| krapp wrote:
| It's a conspiracy theory because it's a theory about a
| conspiracy.
| pessimizer wrote:
| "Conspiracy theory" is a pejorative directed at theories
| about conspiracies that implies irrationality or mental
| illness.
| krapp wrote:
| Do you believe that's because there are established links
| between mental illness and belief in conspiracy theories,
| and many such conspiracies are irrational, or because
| it's all a campaign by the CIA to discredit truth-seekers
| who threaten the establishment order?
| sofixa wrote:
| Because the proof was overwhelmingly pointing at the other
| direction. It ranges from his defeatism earlier on, multiple
| eyewitness accounts from his last days, including his
| refusals to evacuate (including people _begging_ him to join
| them in running away), the official Soviet accounts, etc. And
| around zero proof that anything else happened and he somehow
| miraculously escaped from the surrounded Berlin. So it 's a
| baseless conspiracy.
|
| Now, what happened to the Gestapo Heinrich Muller is a
| mystery and warrants a conspiracy theory. Highly skilled man,
| ideologically flexible, didn't tell anybody he'd rather die,
| and no body has been linked to be his. He's probably in a
| mass grave in Berlin, but it's at least _plausible_ he might
| have escaped.
| Someone wrote:
| > Why Hitler escaping a "conspiracy theory"?
|
| No, but claiming Russia and/or the USA lie about his death
| is. They likely had the the opportunity and the means to do
| that, but what would be their motive?
| 1123581321 wrote:
| No, it does make a difference to have more information and
| especially more incisive and clear facts that are easy to
| present.
|
| I haven't had many arguments about Hitler's death, but I've
| pulled people away from the moon landing conspiracy theory, and
| a bunch of others. My success rate got much better once I was
| able to walk them through the Apollo 11 mirror and the
| detection of it from earth. It's not perfect, but it makes a
| difference having a single clear piece of information you can
| offer them, especially one they hadn't considered before.
|
| Consider different types of conspiracy theorists:
|
| 1. Ones who copy something they vaguely heard. New information
| is a relief to them. They don't like being on the outside. Even
| if you are only temporarily their new source of authority,
| convincing them of the truth is a win and you can build from
| there. Also, you can usually find someone they regard as an
| authority who can present the information.
|
| 2. Ones who want to have inside/obscure knowledge of something.
| Telling them a fact most people don't know is exciting. They
| may switch to the truth just to have one up over their fellow
| theorists. They may become your best research partner.
|
| 3. Ones who have put in work to adopt conspiracy theories but
| are genuinely confused about the story. These can be won over
| with an abundance of factual information and analysis. So not
| only do you mention the dental records, you show them the whole
| paper, review the other pieces of evidence, etc. They take time
| but the effort genuinely pays off, likely for life.
|
| 4. Ones who think anyone but their unhealthy brain or true cult
| leader is trying to deceive them. You probably can't win here.
| But they're far from most common and you generally know if you
| have one of these on your hands.
| kurthr wrote:
| Yeah, once you can point them to something they could test
| themselves it becomes a bit more real.
|
| Flat earthers I'm not so sure about. There are so many things
| just by looking at the horizon or up in the sky that make it
| absurd. I've taken to simply stating that I don't believe
| that they really believe in a Flat Earth. They're just faking
| it... prove me wrong.
| robonerd wrote:
| The best way to cure most flat earthers of their apparent
| affliction is to introduce them to even more obnoxious
| methods of trolling people. Trolly irreverence to rational
| conversation is the big draw of flat eartherism.
|
| Play chess with pigeons and they'll shit on the board, just
| to see you wince.
| hatware wrote:
| > do anything to shut up conspiracy theorists
|
| Maybe it's worth contemplating what the conspiracy _truly_ is?
| Why keep pushing out 'proof' when it's just to convince some
| fringe minority?
| laurent123456 wrote:
| Conspiracy theorists believe in things like the Mandela Effect
| and the existence of alternative realities. With this, you can
| give them all the proofs you want and they can simply claim
| that history has been altered.
| shiftpgdn wrote:
| Just because you believe in one theory that doesn't adhere to
| the mainstream "theory" of history does not make you a
| complete crackpot that believes all conspiracy theories. Come
| on.
| krapp wrote:
| If you believe in one conspiracy theory, it is more likely
| that you will believe others, yes. It's just a matter of
| how "out there" the conspiracy you believe in is. That
| forms the baseline for what you consider by default to be
| plausible.
| vlunkr wrote:
| I would argue that believing in one conspiracy theory makes
| you much more susceptible to others, because they all
| require a flawed type of logic. Conspiracy theorists
| overlook large bodies of evidence and laser-focus on tiny
| contradictions and rely on their own intuition over
| research or listening to other experts.
| shiftpgdn wrote:
| 15 years ago believing in the NSA fiber taps made you an
| insane conspiracy theorist. Save your judgement for
| something else.
| kurthr wrote:
| Perhaps you could argue that in the 90s, but no it was
| already the opposite of a conspiracy theory by 2000. The
| idea that not a single element of the tens of thousands
| (many TLAs) dedicated to US national security and
| monitoring was doing fiber taps (in SF or elsewhere)
| would imply that not a single one who had means (they
| were known to be doing it in other countries) motive
| (because they wanted metadata if nothing else) and
| opportunity (National security letters were a thing even
| then) would do their jobs. I mean... maybe at Home Depot,
| but not in the Federal Government where you take an oath
| to the constitution!
|
| Snowden changed a few people's minds, but not the elite.
| [deleted]
| pyuser583 wrote:
| When the Soviets took Berlin, they grabbed the dental
| assistants who worked on Adolf and Eva Hitler.
|
| They were able to come construct the dental work done on Adolf.
|
| Eva had a rubber bridge put it. That was much more helpful in
| identifying the bodies than any of the actual work on teeth.
|
| Adolf had X-rays taken of his teeth. I'm not sure if they
| survived the war, my off the shelf books focus on Eva, as her
| bridge was the "aha!"
|
| But Soviet intelligence spent great effort trying to hunt down
| the dental records of the Hitler and Goebbels families.
| bananamerica wrote:
| Conspiracy theorists are usually impervious to evidence.
| They'll simply adjust their stories.
| happytoexplain wrote:
| The word "naive" gets thrown around a _lot_ when dealing with
| apparent expectations about apparent human irrationality. I
| find it 's usually uncalled for. In this case, saying "We can
| stop all the conspiracy theories" does not mean that he thinks
| they _will_ stop.
| legitster wrote:
| The interesting thing here is there _was_ a conspiracy! At the
| direction of Stalin, the Soviet Union knew that they had Hitler
| 's remains but intentionally sowed the idea of his escape. And
| we're not entirely sure why.
|
| So it's a wrong conspiracy theory that has been debunked, but
| because of a real conspiracy theory that we have evidence for.
| qiskit wrote:
| > And so on and so forth..
|
| Or we could just take the word of the KGB/FSB who has lied
| about everything. The same people who say we can't trust
| anything from putin because he is/was a kgb/fsb agent are the
| same ones saying we should trust their version of events
| absolutely. Katyn massacre was rife with conspiracies too
| because the official narrative was a lie.
|
| The official narrative was that in 1970?, the kgb dug up their
| bodies, burnt them, ground them up into fine powder and dump
| them in a river so that nobody should visit their burial site.
| Were there many people in the soviet union/east germany looking
| to visit hitler's grave to pay homage? Of course not. Does that
| kgb narrative make any sense to you?
|
| Also, it's hard for me to believe that the kgb didn't keep some
| dna material. After all, by 1970, dna was old news.
| efficax wrote:
| DNA was old news sure but using it to identify individuals
| was only theoretical and hardly widespread knowledge, it
| wouldn't be practical until the late 80s/early 90s...
| nr2x wrote:
| Can we get a look at Putins teeth?
| trhway wrote:
| Between his cosmetic surgeries and frequent usage of
| doppelgangers in various situations (like even driving the
| "opening" truck across the Crimean bridge, etc.) good luck
| knowing whose teeth that would be. When we finally have
| Nuremberg II for the Russian Nazism, unfortunately i'm sure
| that would be not a real Putin there, while the real one will
| be enjoying his billions somewhere else.
| riffic wrote:
| was this in dispute?
| legitster wrote:
| When I was younger, I loved the idea that Hitler secretly
| escaped. I'm not sure why - it's certainly an interesting idea!
| The theory was even mentioned often in some of my school books.
| But even then I clearly understood that it was a pretty
| outlandish "what if" scenario.
| oscargrouch wrote:
| i was born in a city near a german colony in the south of
| Brazil where a lot of germans from the 20's, 30's and later
| 40's arrived (which is unusual giving german colonies in Brazil
| are mostly from people of the late 1800's).
|
| Anyway my father swore that he saw "an old man that looked a
| lot like Hitler without the mustache" in the 80's in that
| colony.
|
| And its funny because its like those stories about people that
| have seen alien ships, you know is very unlikely but you never
| stop to wonder, "what if..". Well now there's no doubt that it
| was just a Hitler lookalike (poor man).
|
| Also, one thing that always looked of in those theories is the
| fact that a man with the psychology of Hitler would be able to
| live a very simple life with such big regrets and big dreams
| smashed, seeing how much he was hated (remember, he was a
| narcissist) til old age. It always seemed unlikely to me, "not
| like hitler", while the suicide seems much more believable.
| mordechai9000 wrote:
| This reminds of the classic Heinlein story, Rocket Ship
| Galileo: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rocket_Ship_Galileo
|
| I remember the plot was a little outlandish to me even when I
| 11 years old: All American kids team up with a brilliant
| scientist and build a rocket to the moon, where they discover
| and defeat a secret Nazi moon base.
| rufus_foreman wrote:
| I read somewhere that they saved Hitler's cock. Hid it under a
| rock.
| V__ wrote:
| Thank god, I was really worried there for a second.
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