[HN Gopher] New Covid nasal spray outperforms current antibody t...
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New Covid nasal spray outperforms current antibody treatments in
mice
Author : geox
Score : 173 points
Date : 2022-04-14 08:14 UTC (14 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (news.northwestern.edu)
(TXT) w3m dump (news.northwestern.edu)
| azinman2 wrote:
| Sounds great, but most drugs fail before Phase III.
| op00to wrote:
| I use an OTC carrageenan nasal spray which shows some
| effectiveness in preventing infection. Maybe it's snake oil going
| up my nose, maybe not, but I think these types of sprays are a
| convenient path to getting out of the COVID mess.
| timcavel wrote:
| lesgobrandon wrote:
| snovv_crash wrote:
| At least they added the "... in mice." suffix. So often that is
| left out.
| jqpabc123 wrote:
| It would have been much more professional sounding if the
| testing had been done "in vitro" --- like with Ivermectin.
| imeron wrote:
| mckirk wrote:
| That probably depends on whether the mice need to be dewormed
| or not.
| scarygliders wrote:
| Ivermectin isn't just a deworming medication though. You must
| know more than just what you've been told in pithy Twitter
| memes, surely?
| dhimes wrote:
| The canonical Covid debunking came out weeks ago.
| idontwantthis wrote:
| Ivermectin has been proven to be incredibly effective in
| Covid patients...who also happen to have parasites.
| RALaBarge wrote:
| chrisco255 wrote:
| markdown wrote:
| On HN even?
| grepfru_it wrote:
| I was shocked at how many people took ivermectin when
| things started opening up this year. I still have a hard
| time believing these people got over their covid infection
| in 2 days with an ivermectin prescription, but at least 50
| distinct people told me this. Meanwhile I was left to my
| own natural remedies after being turned away from the ER.
|
| Also shocking is how many people who did not get the
| vaccine at all. Really makes me question reality
|
| EDIT: this is purely my anecdotal research of a southern
| state (where i live) compared to a northern state (where my
| family lives)
| tinus_hn wrote:
| This is not surprising at all given that Ivermectin is a
| safe medication and most cases of Covid-19 clear by
| themselves in a few days. So if ivermectin doesn't help
| at all you'd still see what you're seeing.
|
| The surprise might be that Covid-19 is not like Ebola or
| the Black Plague and although like these diseases it can
| cause very serious illness or death, unlike these
| diseases it does not do that in the vast majority of
| cases.
| pinko wrote:
| I remember years ago reading horror stories of a similar nasal
| spray (Tamiflu I think?) causing long-term or permanent loss of
| smell, and swore I'd never use it since I'd much rather have the
| flu once than never smell again.
|
| Is that a risk generally with nasal sprays, or something not to
| worry about?
| yablak wrote:
| Seems like it's within sampling error:
|
| https://www.ehealthme.com/ds/tamiflu/loss-of-smell/
|
| Especially when flu itself can cause loss of smell/taste:
|
| https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1988-02-21-mn-44059-...
| (1988)
|
| It's not clear if in those cases the loss lasted after end of
| use. My guess it resolved on its own.
| dham wrote:
| Flu causes loss of smell too though. Crazy right? By the past 2
| years you would think Covid was the only virus ever to cause
| loss of smell.
| weberer wrote:
| You're thinking of the experimental zinc sprays that never made
| it past testing.
| pinko wrote:
| I think you're right. Thank you for the clarification!
| freemint wrote:
| Does some know whether the muscouse membranes in the nose differ
| much between humans and mice? Do they differ more or less then
| immune system do?
| jasonhansel wrote:
| Giving a mouse a nasal spray must require an _incredibly_ steady
| hand (unless there 's some nonobvious trick to it).
| mckirk wrote:
| Easy, just put cocaine in the spray and make it mouse-operable.
| moonchrome wrote:
| But what if cocaine is actually treating Covid ? Imagine
| discovering the cocaine control group is having the same
| result - would be an interesting plot twist to the pandemic.
| GLGirty wrote:
| That experiment will be defunded just as fast as the rat
| park.
|
| http://utw10426.utweb.utexas.edu/quest/Q3/ratpark.html
| mckirk wrote:
| You know, that's not the most unlikely theory. I've
| wondered why clubs reopening only had seemingly little
| effect on covid spread...
| cloverich wrote:
| I'd thought the majority of spread was from intra and
| inter household contact. i.e. family member spreads to
| family members, who visit friends, who spread to their
| family, etc.
| dennis_jeeves1 wrote:
| Imagine the un-vaccinated/un-masked having all the fun,
| yet not getting covid...
|
| The universe is indeed unfair.
| Traubenfuchs wrote:
| Picture of mouse receiving intranasal substance.
|
| https://ars.els-cdn.com/content/image/1-s2.0-S01660934110005...
| op00to wrote:
| That mouse is clearly saying "oooooooooooo!"
| bena wrote:
| Yep, pretty much what I pictured. Mice are small. You just
| grab it to restrain it and stick the tube where it needs to
| go. This doesn't require mistreating the animal (any more
| than any animal testing is considered mistreatment, but
| that's another discussion), just being firm and deliberate.
| LeifCarrotson wrote:
| Looks an awful lot like the difficult process of trying to
| give an infant eye drops.
| [deleted]
| chrisco255 wrote:
| Is it normal that mice can get Covid?
| Symmetry wrote:
| Yes. And in fact the Omicron variant seems to have evolved in
| mice.
|
| https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34954396/
| Traubenfuchs wrote:
| It's been fully accepted that most, if not all, mammals can get
| infected and infect other mammals with Covid-19.
|
| https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/daily-life-coping/...
|
| https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2013102117
| swayvil wrote:
| buster wrote:
| What i don't understand is, if it prevents covid for a longer
| term or just for a few hours. The article mentions that it
| prevents that the virus can enter cells, but to me it sounds like
| it only prevents as long as the spray is present?
| herodotus wrote:
| I am sorry this thread got hijacked. I had the same thought as
| the OP: vaccines work by training the bodies own defences. The
| description of this spray sounds more like a disinfectant that
| prevents the virus from binding to human cells. Can anyone
| knowledgeable on HN clarify this?
| officialjunk wrote:
| The mucosal immune system in the respiratory tract is the
| first line of defense against covid. An interstitial
| injection does not train the mucosal immune system, while a
| nasal vaccine does. To prevent any infection, the mucosal
| immune system needs to be primed.
| bbarnett wrote:
| cyberlurker wrote:
| It's so interesting that I can't tell if you are a troll,
| being sarcastic, an antisemite, a Q believer, etc.
|
| But also I don't think your comment adds much to the
| discussion. Generally, non vaccine treatments have escaped
| the "Bill Gates and his microchip" skepticism.
| jakeinspace wrote:
| It's a reference to They Live
| cyberlurker wrote:
| Ah, cool I never heard of it. Thanks.
| themitigating wrote:
| What's the name of that phenomenon where you can't tell if
| someone is sarcastic or a true fanatic these days
| SideburnsOfDoom wrote:
| > Poe's law is an adage of Internet culture stating that,
| without a clear indicator of the author's intent, every
| parody of extreme views can be mistaken by some readers
| for a sincere expression of the views being parodied
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe%27s_law
| d23 wrote:
| Does it not add to the discussion? It's clearly satire. You
| can flick your finger on your mouse wheel in this comments
| section and read something that's trying to be serious but
| is equally ridiculous.
|
| Also, this opening line is gold:
|
| > Naturally, and it also effects the ability to smell. To
| smell _them_.
| dhimes wrote:
| Reference to a great cult movie: _They Live_ with Roddy
| Piper and Keith David.
| [deleted]
| morjom wrote:
| There's a Covid nasal spray being developed by a Finnish company
| Rokote Laboratories Finland Ltd [1], which is supposed to go into
| clinical trials after this summer.
|
| [1] https://rokote.com/home.html
| flr03 wrote:
| Yes, there are covid nasal sprays being developed all over the
| world. Also Birmingham, Oxford (UK), Tours (France)...
| henriks wrote:
| The one you mention is a viral vector vaccine; the mentioned
| spray sounds more similar to this (incidentally developed by
| someone from the same lab):
| https://www.helsinki.fi/en/news/pandemics/biological-mask-ad...
| great_reversal wrote:
| This sounds familiar... https://science.ubc.ca/news/new-nasal-
| spray-treats-delta-var...
| walterbell wrote:
| There's a widely available OTC nasal spray that has been used for
| years against various respiratory viruses, which became engaged
| in a regulatory debate.
|
| https://finance.yahoo.com/news/nathan-jones-ceo-xlear-inc-11...
|
| _> The Government tells people to wash their hands; Yet COVID-19
| is an upper respiratory illness. Most COVID-19 infections start
| in the nose. It makes commonsense to wash your nose. People have
| been using nasal cleansing to fight respiratory illnesses going
| back thousands of years._
|
| March 2021,
| https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20210324005241/en/Xle...
|
| _> Xlear previously filed a pre-EUA seeking approval for use of
| the nasal spray as a medical device in combatting COVID-19.
| However, because the FDA determined that Xlear "works against the
| virus," the FDA told Xlear it would need to be considered as a
| drug or combination product EUA. Xlear is currently sold in over
| 50,000 pharmacies, grocery stores, and online as a nasal spray.
| "Xlear doesn't require the EUA to be sold and used--we only need
| an EUA to be able to inform people about the benefits of using
| Xlear to protect themselves from COVID-19 "._
| elif wrote:
| Reminds me of the "we don't need more vaccines" FDA
| themitigating wrote:
| Did the FDA say this?
| bluedino wrote:
| This reads like the radio ad for Navage nasal rinse
| pessimizer wrote:
| I feel I read a study about how flushing out your nose with
| water early and repeatedly when a covid infection starts can
| knock it back long enough for you to build the immunity to
| fight it off. Googling irrigation and covid gives you a lot of
| good hits; I have yet to see a negative one. If I assume
| competence for no good reason, maybe the government was afraid
| people would injure themselves?
|
| Here were a couple studies that recruited people:
|
| https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04347538
|
| https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04559035
| Enginerrrd wrote:
| By the time you start developing symptoms, in most cases,
| you're already at peak viral load.
| PragmaticPulp wrote:
| The existence of a study only indicates that someone secured
| funding and pushed it through review. COVID was a goldrush
| for studies with the huge government injection of cash
| dedicated to research.
|
| There were also early studies suggesting that gargling
| antiseptic mouthwash had similar effects, but the later
| studies weren't successful.
|
| Unfortunately, it looks like once the virus is in your
| airways it moves into the rest of the body too quickly for
| simple interventions to do much.
| PragmaticPulp wrote:
| Sorry, but you've been duped by supplement sellers' marketing
| material.
|
| Xlear is just a branded Xylitol nasal spray. You can go buy it
| right now if you want. The regulatory action only limited them
| from claiming that it was effective against COVID without
| evidence, _which is a very good thing_. Xylitol is a cheap,
| common ingredient that supplement makers have been trying to
| push as a wonder drug for a long time. Xylitol nasal spray does
| not appear to be an effective COVID treatment.
|
| COVID was a gold rush for supplement marketers. Everyone who
| wanted to sell more supplements was looking for an angle to
| suggest that their supplement might be helpful. Pushing press
| releases to Yahoo Finance and Business Wire is an easy way to
| get your name out there.
|
| The only hit for "xlear" and "covid" on PubMed is this one case
| report written by authors with financial ties to Xlear:
| https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33173650/
|
| They only used 3 mild-moderate COVID patients and zero
| controls:
|
| > We present a series of three mild-moderate risks,
| symptomatic, COVID-19 patients, treated with the intranasal
| combination, as an adjuvant to their ongoing treatment, with
| rapid clinical improvement and shorten time to negativization
| on repeat intranasal swab test via PCR.
|
| Their claim that it shortened time to negativization doesn't
| make any sense because they didn't have a control group to
| compare against.
|
| This is junk supplement marketing material pretending to be
| science. Please don't promote it.
| perardi wrote:
| I'm sorry, but, to be succinct about that study: _lol_
|
| Go and read the 3 patient studies they describe.
|
| https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7645297/
|
| Not only was there not a control group, the 3 patients _had
| almost nothing in common_. Totally different ages, totally
| different medical histories.
|
| What an absolute garbage study.
| arcticfox wrote:
| Thank you for debunking that comment and spelling out the
| problems. Without this explanation I'd have no idea.
| PragmaticPulp wrote:
| When something sounds too good to be true it's easy to
| visit https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/ and run a search for
| published literature
|
| However, be careful! Savvy supplement companies will give
| large ownernship shares to doctors in exchange for
| essentially manufacturing positive-looking literature and
| pushing it to pay-to-publish journals. You have to read the
| conflict of interest sections and have a high degree of
| suspicion to make sure you're reading a real study instead
| of astroturfing
| omginternets wrote:
| At the end of the day, there is no substitute for reading
| a large amount of primary sources and really trying to
| understand what's going on.
| azinman2 wrote:
| The problem with this is that you need expertise in the
| area of interest to know what's good or bad research,
| what's commonly known, and who generally is doing good
| work. This is too much to ask for the general public in
| areas like biology, which is why we have experts to
| filter the information.
|
| The collapse of trust in expertise only widens the
| possibility for junk to be pushed through, which will
| result in a terrible self-actualizing cycle. When you see
| on social media "I did the research and found...", all
| that means is someone put something into google and read
| something that fit a confirmation bias with zero
| criticality or training on how to interpret what they
| read.
| omginternets wrote:
| A large (majority?) part of gaining an expertise is
| precisely through a large volume of meticulous reading.
| But I think we're saying the same thing: most people
| "doing their own research", are not doing meaningful
| research, partly because it's a herculean undertaking.
| nojito wrote:
| Why are you taking the words from a press release as fact?
|
| The EUA process is fairly straightforward. The fact they
| haven't gone through it is extremely suspect.
| Alex3917 wrote:
| Also Betadine Cold Defence, which contains iota carrageenan.
| But even though it's made in the U.S., the only way to get it
| is from Canada. (Which is an entirely different product than
| the Betadine nasal spray that's available in the U.S., which
| the media has been making fun of people for using.)
| walterbell wrote:
| Thanks for the pointer. OTC nasal sprays have been used for
| many years in professions (e.g. dentistry) where there is
| unavoidable risk of exposure to respiratory viruses.
| Animats wrote:
| The question is, does this work in humans? Existing vaccines work
| better in orangutans than they do in humans. There's a new
| vaccine which reportedly works great in rabbits. There are quite
| a few vaccines in development. Working in mice is only a first
| step.
| blenderdt wrote:
| So it sound like this prevents you from getting infected while
| the vaccins try to prevent you from becomming very sick.
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