[HN Gopher] UX and the Civilizing Process
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       UX and the Civilizing Process
        
       Author : agmm
       Score  : 32 points
       Date   : 2022-04-12 20:03 UTC (2 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (meltingasphalt.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (meltingasphalt.com)
        
       | mwcampbell wrote:
       | I, for one, prefer that the computers I interact with be honest
       | about being computers, and not put on a persona (mask) of poorly
       | simulating a human. I think that's why, as a screen reader user,
       | I prefer speech synthesizers that, while highly intelligible and
       | listenable, don't try too hard to emulate natural speech (usually
       | by using recordings of an actual human voice). Today my cofounder
       | talked with me about possibly using some kind of chatbot for
       | customer service, and I'm strongly opposed. But I suppose I'm in
       | the shrinking minority.
        
       | giraffe_lady wrote:
       | > These were instructions aimed at the rich nobility. Among serfs
       | out in the villages, standards were even less refined.
       | 
       | Now _that_ needs a citation, and embeds a whole bundle of
       | assumptions in itself. It 's necessarily true, because the rich
       | decided what "refined" meant and defined it as what they did.
       | 
       | But primary record from many times and places show this sort of
       | disgust going both ways. A lot of "uncivilized" behavior has been
       | direct response to material conditions, and "civilized" or
       | "refined" behavior was defined _in opposition to those needs_.
       | The classic example is bathing: if you spend your time up to your
       | waist in clay forming bricks, you 're gonna need to wash it off
       | every day. A clear way to signal that you don't do that is to not
       | bathe.
       | 
       | From the perspective of wealthy city dwellers, I'm sure the
       | habits of rural serfs were disgusting. On some specific habits
       | I'm sure I would agree. But that they were _generally_ , across
       | time and place, more disgusting than the wealthy? mmm idk.
        
       | mrob wrote:
       | I disagree that software should be thought of as a person, even
       | if it's a polite person. Software is and should be thought of as
       | a tool. For routine operations by an experienced user, a tool
       | feels like it's part of your own body. It's like riding a
       | bicycle. Most people who ride are not aware of countersteering,
       | but they countersteer regardless, because the bicycle has become
       | effectively a prosthetic body part. This is the ideal way to
       | operate software.
       | 
       | But unfortunately, this feeling is fragile. The requirements are
       | stricter than mere politeness. E.g. latency is very important.
       | Any kind of delay (including animations) breaks the feeling of
       | software being part of your own body. There is already a built in
       | delay/animation: the movement of your own fingers. This is the
       | only natural delay. Any additional delay on top of it breaks the
       | connection between tool and human body, and and removes the
       | feeling of merging of the two.
       | 
       | And any kind of automatic behavior breaks the feeling. I'm
       | opposed to autosaving, because it's a reminder that the software
       | is not literally a part of my body. It's better to cultivate a
       | habit of manual saving. Predictability is as important as
       | responsiveness. Tools are not "smart".
       | 
       | I've never felt this kind of man/machine unity from a mobile UI.
       | Maybe it's possible in theory, but touch screen UIs focus on
       | dragging, which makes latency even more obvious, by translating
       | time delays into spatial displacements. And it's only possible
       | with experience, which designers constantly fight against by
       | making UI changes. It's likely that the majority of computer
       | users have never felt it at all, and that is a real pity.
        
       | masswerk wrote:
       | There are many sides to this. E.g., a couple of days ago, I had a
       | conversation with the owner of the next-door pizza shop. He
       | doesn't use computers or the internet. Years ago, he had
       | participated in a course, but found it frustrating. He wanted to
       | understand the grammar of this, how it worked, and how things
       | were related and connected to each other. (He was actually using
       | the term "language".) Unable to do so, he turned his back to
       | computers.
       | 
       | You could call his a civilizatory demand. Compare modern UX to
       | this, it's more like, "here's your hand, use it for everything,
       | just try, don't think about it (we won't make you think,
       | promise)." Which might be closer to what figures as "medieval
       | barbarism" in the article.
       | 
       | Also, the bit on the "Mother of All Demos" may be a bit unfair:
       | The system relied on multiple users' views rendered on a single
       | screen and respective portions of this being relayed to the user
       | via CCTV, and, for this particular event, input and output were
       | miles away from the machine that ran the demo, connected via a
       | network bridge. Modern videos on social media showing a person
       | manipulating their smartphone can be messy in appearance, as
       | well... (On the other hand, Engelbart's real ambition, the
       | "bootstrapping" process of symbol manipulating minds and symbol
       | processing machines elevating each other to levels never imagined
       | before, a project very much civilizatory in nature, probably
       | never became a reality. And this may be due to interfaces, which
       | teach us how to think about this process and the systems
       | involved.)
       | 
       | Edit: Another early "civilizatory" approach may have been J.C.R
       | Licklider's "Man-Computer Symbiosis", where human and machine
       | meet on a shared, common ground (the interface), instructing each
       | other by suggestion, thus eventually reaching a goal of refined
       | understanding and problem insight.
        
         | drewcoo wrote:
         | Present day UX grew out of Englebart and co's notions of
         | computer interfaces for children. They were meant to be
         | discoverable. They weren't meant to avoid thinking. That's
         | still the guiding spirit in it.
         | 
         | One could argue that children are "barbaric," but I really
         | don't think it's useful framing.
        
           | masswerk wrote:
           | Alan Kay's work is very much about children, but Engelbart's
           | project was about (qualified) grownups and future
           | civilization. (Children at the age of about 10-12 were
           | especially interesting to Alan Kay, because they're at in a
           | transitional state from visual dominance to symbolic
           | dominance in thinking, following the work of Piaget and in
           | the updated version by Jerome Brunner.) Regarding, what is
           | discoverable, the civilizing aspect may be well in what is
           | shown and in what way. E.g., Licklider's examples are
           | actually conversations about constraints, without verbalising
           | constraints specifically.
           | 
           | Edit: One notable "relict" of Engelbart's project is the
           | outline view in MS Word (which, out of context, may not
           | appear to be that remarkable, while it was much about how
           | texts should be organized and understood).
        
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