[HN Gopher] DOS Nostalgia: On using a modern DOS workstation
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DOS Nostalgia: On using a modern DOS workstation
Author : ingve
Score : 88 points
Date : 2022-04-12 11:48 UTC (2 days ago)
(HTM) web link (c0de517e.blogspot.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (c0de517e.blogspot.com)
| bstar77 wrote:
| I like doing writing work (wordperfect) on my old machines
| (286-486 era). It's the one task that I find is actually better
| on these old machines. My Model-M keyboard is better for typing,
| there are less distractions and I prefer looking at a CRT when
| writing. It's also somewhat ceremonial booting up the machine and
| running WP, so that helps getting into he writing mindset.
|
| What makes this especially convenient is that I can save files
| direct to a CF card and interchange it with my modern machines.
| CF uses the same IDE interface as a vintage hard drive, so
| hooking up one of these solutions with old hardware is trivially
| easy.
| udp wrote:
| I also use a Model M. they don't make them like that any more!
|
| I use an IDE to SD card adapter rather than CF, as SD cards are
| super cheap and easy to image.
| bstar77 wrote:
| I prefer CF cards because there's no signal conversion needed
| while SD card adapters needs conversion electronics. I'm not
| sure if the SD card adapters are any less reliable, but I've
| stuck to buying Startech CF adapters and have not had any
| issues yet. Plus, I have about 30 CF cards on hand so it's
| nice to still have a use for them.
| nhecker wrote:
| But they /almost/ do! I use an '86 IBM M as my daily driver,
| but I've bought two keyboards from
| https://www.pckeyboard.com/page/category/UKBD which still
| makes this style of keyboard. They're not nearly as broken-in
| as my M is of course, and the construction differs in a few
| insignificant (to me) ways, but the typing experience is
| identical. I'd recommend giving them a look if you're in the
| market.
| hans_castorp wrote:
| Ah! Wordperfect - best word processor on DOS by far.
| PopAlongKid wrote:
| I was exposed to several word processors at the time, and
| choose PC-Write[0] (shareware pioneer) as my primary tool.
| After becoming an advanced user of _vi_ and _nroff_ for
| various tasks (programming, desktop publishing), I found PC-
| Write to be the best tool when migrating to the PC world.
|
| "One unusual feature of PC-Write was its implementation of
| free form editing: it could copy and paste a block of text
| anywhere."
|
| [0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PC-Write
| bstar77 wrote:
| It's what I used as a kid, so it's all I know from that era.
| I still have those templates on my keyboard.
| brimble wrote:
| Lower input latency, too, which makes for more-pleasant typing.
| bstar77 wrote:
| This is actually a good point... I have a very fast 16 core
| PC, but typing in Google Docs often has latencies. Everything
| in WP is instantaneous, even on my 6mhz 286.
| Semiapies wrote:
| A local app will have less latency than a networked one
| running in a browser.
| myth_drannon wrote:
| Depends, a local app which is an Electron app....
| bombcar wrote:
| Reminds me of https://danluu.com/input-lag/ - and I've been
| noticing it more and more as everything (even desktop apps)
| become "cloud apps" - everything is sluggish, which
| prevents typeahead and quick access.
|
| Watching someone use the old text-based terminals you'd see
| at Frys or a bank vs watching them fight with a mouse-based
| web GUI is instructional; with the old text terminal you
| could enter the whole transaction as one long string of
| characters into the buffer, and even if it took time to
| load the screens, it would faithfully execute exactly as
| you ordered it to.
| nonamenoslogan wrote:
| Still to this day all of my command lines are dark-navy-blue
| with white text because of WP 5.1. I go a bit darker than the
| original, but its been that way for nearly 30 years now.
| zozbot234 wrote:
| The dark-blue-with-light-text color scheme was used by MS-DOS
| based dev environments too back in the day. Both Microsoft's
| "Quick" and Borland "Turbo" series used it. It was even
| featured in the EDIT fullscreen editor on MS-DOS.
| a9h74j wrote:
| And the Zortech editor.
| udp wrote:
| I too love using old hardware for "real work". My current writing
| workflow is Office 97 on Windows 95 (Pentium II) -> SMB share on
| a Raspberry Pi -> upload .doc to google drive from my iMac. It's
| pretty nice for distraction-free typing, and I still find Word 97
| easier to use than any modern word processor. And the appeal of
| playing with my old computer makes me more likely to want to
| write. :-)
|
| The Win 95 machine is on a private network for which the Pi is
| the router, so the SMB share is available without connecting win
| 95 to the internet.
| forgotmypw17 wrote:
| I also think Word 97 is the pinnacle of word processing. I run
| it in a Windows Me Virtual Machine and post the texts to my
| blog using IE6 :)
| flatiron wrote:
| Have you tried wine? I image that word 97 would run great in
| it.
| forgotmypw17 wrote:
| I love Wine, and use it regularly for other progs like
| Netscape, but W97 works better this way. Even emulated, it
| is more responsive and cleaner than GDocs and LibreO
| nix23 wrote:
| I write my journals on VM370CE V1R1.1 (running on sdl-hercules)
| i love the editor and it's completely distraction free.
| foobarian wrote:
| Why limit yourself to old hardware too. I was just thinking
| about how blazing fast Win 3.1 would run on a modern i9
| machine. None of that pesky memory protection or preemptive
| scheduling getting in the way of getting real work done :-)
| udp wrote:
| Driver support might be an issue - and it might run TOO fast!
| dTal wrote:
| Single threaded only though! So you leave a huge amount of
| that i9 performance on the table.
| Kwpolska wrote:
| Old software can be too old for your new hardware. Windows 95
| won't boot on machines faster than 2.1 GHz without an
| unofficial patch [0]. Old Windows versions support only one
| CPU core, in 32-bit mode, without using many "fast"
| instructions. And on the RAM front, Windows 9x tends to get
| unstable if you have too much of it (512 MB is typically
| considered the limit).
|
| [0] https://msfn.org/board/topic/141402-windows-95-21ghz-cpu-
| lim...
| LukeShu wrote:
| I'd managed to get Windows 1.01 to boot on my (at the time
| brand-new) 2009 3GHz quad-core AMD64 CPU with I think 8GB
| of RAM. I don't remember which DOS version I was running it
| on. I'm not sure I knew how much RAM it saw. And it was
| surely only using 1 core, of course in 16bit mode.
| Decabytes wrote:
| I had a pretty good time running an 8Gb rpi 4 running BSD with
| the Lumina D.E. I did the same experiment on a rpi 3 and found
| 1GB just a little too limiting for the type of work I was
| doing. 8Gb was definitely overkill for my workflow but I
| couldn't help myself when I was upgrading.
|
| I think some of the productivity gains definitely felt like a
| placebo though. Having a device that just had the github repo
| of the project I was working on, with a fresh OS install with
| no other distracting things installed, is not a unique
| experience to the rpi. In fact I could mimic this by just
| creating a "work" user on my current desktop.
|
| But it was at least an exercise
| anotherhue wrote:
| I recently dusted off my mid-90s CRT and with a HDMI/VGA
| adapter have been using it on my main system. Call it
| nostalgia, refresh rate, phosphor hypnosis, whatever, but it
| feels simpler and quieter and less intimidating than a 32" 4K.
|
| Maybe the glass curve conveys a sense of the system being
| enclosed, as opposed to all around us as today.
| skocznymroczny wrote:
| Unlike most people, I found CRT more pleasing to use than
| LCDs. When LCDs started to become mainstream, they were
| making me dizzy after short use. After using the same screen
| for a longer period of time, I can somewhat get used to it,
| but I still feel queasy after more than few hours of use. But
| switching to another LCD still takes me some time to adjust
| to make it even usable.
| LukeShu wrote:
| Lots of people find CRTs more pleasing to use than LCDs,
| because of better contrast ratios and lower latencies. But
| --fascinating--I've not heard of LCDs making people dizzy,
| do you have any idea what it is about the LCD that makes
| you dizzy?
| skocznymroczny wrote:
| LCDs are actually infamous for making people dizzy, with
| the whole PWM thing. That's why many screens are
| advertised as "flicker-free". I am not an expert on the
| technical side of things but google "LCD displays PWM
| dizzy" and you'll get plenty of links. Commonly PWM is
| used for brightness management, so the screen might be
| flicker-free at high brightness (the blinding one like
| they use in computer stores), and suddenly it starts to
| flicker when you turn it down.
| thom wrote:
| It's possible to go very far down this rabbit hole, and end
| up browsing Sony GDM-FW900s from 2003 for thousands of
| dollars.
| anotherhue wrote:
| Which is why I dusted off the old one :) -- can't justify
| 3k in any sensible universe!
| flatiron wrote:
| Have you tried abiword for word processing?
|
| Why don't you have the pi upload to google drive? Have the smb
| mount point to a rclone mount that's google drive. Skip a hop
| :)
| boondaburrah wrote:
| my go-to writing system was a repaired (got two broken ones
| for free, cobbled together 1 working one) 800MHz Celeron Sony
| VAIO with an 800x600 LCD, xubuntu, and abiword. The thing
| /couldn't/ connect to the internet (required a dongle I
| didn't have) but had a USB port for using a thumbdrive.
|
| I got so much work done on that thing.
| unixhero wrote:
| Abiword is very unstable, I do not recommend it unless you
| save at every keypress.
| anthk wrote:
| Ted may work better, now it has a GTK2 interface instead of
| Motif.
| udp wrote:
| That's a really nice idea. Maybe I could do the same with
| Dropbox. A good project for the Easter weekend - thank you!
|
| I haven't tried abiword as I didn't use it "back in the day",
| but I might give it a go. I'm also using AppleWorks on my
| iMac G3 with an identical setup. The G3 is nice because it's
| fanless and therefore almost silent, though it has a bit of
| CRT whine nowadays.
| flatiron wrote:
| Give abiword a try! It tried to clone office 97 as much as
| possible regarding user interface. Would get you off the
| windows 95 requirement and you could use Debian 32 bit.
|
| Debian would also work nicely on that g3. Bring both of
| them up to date!
|
| Rclone supports drop box. It's more of a 15 minute rtfm
| task than an Easter weekend. If you are celebrating have a
| nice Easter.
| jmmv wrote:
| Debian doesn't work any more on PPC Macs, nor does any
| other Linux distro I'm afraid. At least I couldn't find
| one when I was looking into this recently that was
| actively maintained.
|
| Of course you can go with an older version of Debian.
|
| Or you can give FreeBSD a spin. Still works nicely on
| those old machines, including the latest versions!
| (NetBSD and OpenBSD work too, but they are harder to
| install and their boot loader is pickier.)
| drewzero1 wrote:
| Check out Adelie Linux[0]. I haven't committed to
| installing it on my iMac G4 yet, but I've tried the
| liveCD and it looks promising! It's been featured a few
| times on the "Action Retro" Youtube channel.
| (Incidentally, a rising star of my favorite youtube
| creators.)
|
| [0] https://www.adelielinux.org/ [1]
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLLfCgBu96M
| flatiron wrote:
| Yer right! I had no clue they retired Debian on 32 bit
| PPC! End of an era!
| unixhero wrote:
| Wrong https://t2sde.org/architectures/powerpc64/
| anthk wrote:
| That's a 64 bit G5. It won't work on a G3/G4.
| unixhero wrote:
| Well it wasn't specified. But here
| https://t2sde.org/architectures/powerpc/
| flatiron wrote:
| That's............not Debian
| zozbot234 wrote:
| The official port is dead, but unofficial development
| builds are still available. E.g. here
| https://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/ports/current/ is a
| Debian 11 netinst for `powerpc`. More information at
| https://www.debian.org/ports/powerpc/
| unixhero wrote:
| PPC Linux can be had from the T2 Linux distribution!
| https://t2sde.org/architectures/powerpc64/
| akselmo wrote:
| Nice! Dont you have a problem occasionally wanting to play some
| Doom on the side? :'D
| udp wrote:
| Mostly UT99 with the GLIDE renderer on my 3DFX Voodoo 3, but
| I consider it inspiration ;-)
| akselmo wrote:
| Haha, perfect!
| bombcar wrote:
| I think if I went down this path I'd have to build a tower case -
| more control over the various devices and more of that 90s feel.
| Jaruzel wrote:
| A few months ago, I installed Windows 2000 onto an ancient
| ThinkPad T21. I then put Office 2000 on it. The intent was 'mono-
| focused' (I like that word) writing.
|
| The project stalled, as I was stuck looking for a good offline
| dictionary/thesaurus to put on it, as I knew I would need it,
| most out there are horrible or online only.
|
| I should resurrect the idea and blog about it really (directly
| from the aforementioned ThinkPad).
|
| I think there's mileage in a 'Writers Distro' for Linux, which
| only bundles a set of apps for Writing, and NO network drivers.
| WorldMaker wrote:
| It was mentioned in a different article on HN the other day a
| Professor somewhere who still swore by an old CD of Microsoft
| Bookshelf [1]. That Professor believed that the American
| Heritage Dictionary, 3rd Edition included in Bookshelf remains
| one of the best dictionaries ever assembled. Bookshelf CDs also
| included Roget's Thesaurus.
|
| [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Bookshelf
| Jaruzel wrote:
| That's a very good idea, I hadn't thought of that. I bet
| archive.org will have a copy!
| anthk wrote:
| On Linux' distro for writers with "no drivers": Use this old
| Linux:
|
| http://delicate-linux.net/0.1/download/iso/delicate-0.1-alph...
|
| Setting up a desktop environment is not that difficult, and
| compiling wordnet from source once you install tcl/tk from the
| CD it's a breeze.
|
| http://delicate-linux.net/
| anthk wrote:
| Try WordNet, it requires tcl/tk, it may run under Windows 2000.
|
| https://wordnet.princeton.edu/download/current-version#win
| Jaruzel wrote:
| Oh that's nice, cheers.
| goosedragons wrote:
| Have you tried StarDict? I'd imagine 2.4.8 probably runs on
| 2000 since it dates from 2006. There's loads of compatible
| dictionaries you can install.
| btrettel wrote:
| I use Artha on Linux, which uses the WordNet database. It's
| fast and convenient. My only issue is that I would prefer
| using a more up-to-date fork of the WordNet database as I
| don't think WordNet has been updated in a while.
|
| http://artha.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php/Home
| devindotcom wrote:
| I did something like this putting Linux Mint on a 2012 Macbook
| Air. My only requirements were that it run Simplenote and
| Firefox... everything beyond that was superfluous. So I could
| take it and try to focus on writing, though of course 90% of my
| distractions are in the browser anyway...
|
| It is a nice thing to have around though. I would definitely
| follow a "mono-focused" writing device or distro.
| guessbest wrote:
| There is the Alphasmart word processor.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AlphaSmart
|
| > AlphaSmart devices have a cult following amongst writers, who
| use them for distraction-free writing. [2]
| phkahler wrote:
| I need to run an old DOS program that communicates with a 9-bit
| serial protocol that need an ancient UART. This hardware is
| nearly unubtanium.
|
| I think a good DOS emulator could fake this with an external -
| say arduino - device on the wire. I emailed the dosbox crew about
| this but got no response. Any ideas?
| cmrdporcupine wrote:
| Hack QEmu to add an emulation for the UART. It's not as hard to
| add devices in there as you'd think.
| phkahler wrote:
| Since it's for work I was hoping to pay someone to do it.
| Have to run it by management but I think 90% they'd go for
| it.
|
| Thanks for the tip, I'll check out qemu.
| cmrdporcupine wrote:
| FWIW I am not working right now (and for the next month or
| so, waiting on a job offer) and might be interested,
| depending on the specifics.
|
| ryan [dot] daum @ gmail.com
| phkahler wrote:
| pinged by email. I love Hacker News...
| nonrandomstring wrote:
| E-waste is a really big issue. Looking after old computers and
| giving them a genuine use is a good contribution to reducing
| pollution. I wrote about this recently [1][2]. DOSBox on top of a
| minimal nix install also works well as it emulates old video
| modes quite nicely.
|
| [1] https://cheapskatesguide.org/articles/techno-clutter-
| farnell...
|
| [2] https://cheapskatesguide.org/articles/uncharitable.html
| aphroz wrote:
| Strangely I have lived almost exactly the same thing as the
| author (I had to check it wasn't me). The difference was that I
| bought the C64. I spent an unreasonable time connecting it to the
| wifi and I still haven't figured out the best way to SSH to my
| desktop.
| smm11 wrote:
| OpenStep a lot of the time. Browsing via X, but yeah.
| pasc1878 wrote:
| How.
|
| Openstep does not use X. It uses display postscript which will
| display on other machines like X11 does
| linguae wrote:
| There are third-party X servers for OPENSTEP; this
| (https://ftp.nice.ch/Attic/openStep/X11/) is one that I found
| after a minute of using Google.
| 1970-01-01 wrote:
| I have about a dozen Pentium and 486 machines sitting in the
| attic. I wonder how long until they become valuable ($XXXX)
| artifacts.
| bombcar wrote:
| Get one setup as a "blast from the past" machine and try to
| sell it. I bet there's people out there that would pay for a
| nostalgia pentium ready to roll, especially if you did all the
| work getting it to go.
| iguessthislldo wrote:
| $XXXX specifically isn't likely for that era, at least anytime
| soon. If it's something rare or unique like the Thinkpad 701
| with its butterfly keyboard, then it easily can go into
| hundreds. If they're normal machines in working order, then I
| wouldn't expect a ton, but many people want them for retro
| gaming or some other reason like the author does. Even a non-
| working machine has parts some people might want. I have a
| couple of working, but worse for wear machines with sentimental
| value that I've been trying keep an eye out for non-working
| counterparts to salvage and for spare parts. One of them is
| actually a Thinkpad 240 that's close to the 240x author got.
| Bostonian wrote:
| To avoid distractions it's simpler just to turn off Wi-Fi or to
| take your laptop somewhere where there is no Wi-Fi you can
| access. I got a lot of programming done at my kids' piano
| teacher's house.
| AshamedCaptain wrote:
| It's always kind of ironic to read complains about distractions
| on online blogs.
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