[HN Gopher] Job hunting while day-jobbing (2021)
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Job hunting while day-jobbing (2021)
Author : luu
Score : 50 points
Date : 2022-04-12 20:08 UTC (1 days ago)
(HTM) web link (code.maiamccormick.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (code.maiamccormick.com)
| nuancebydefault wrote:
| "Job hunting while day jobbing" is that a thing? For people who
| have a day job and want to switch, I only see one real
| alternative: "job hunting after having quit their job". The
| alternative sounds more stressful to me. How is it any different
| from doing any personal project, e.g.improving one's house while
| having a day job? That said, the article has some good points,
| like: don't panic, your boss will not notice it so easily, and if
| so, it is not such a big deal -- you want to leave anyways.
| Apocryphon wrote:
| As difficult as it is to juggle a day job and interviews,
| that's how most employed people switch jobs. And it's
| particularly stressful in software, as that project is more
| intensive than just interviews, but also involves technical
| interview prep.
|
| Certainly, it's a shame that there's no short-term unemployment
| benefits for those who want to leave a job and commit full-time
| to finding a new one for a few months, while recovering from
| burnout or just resting.
| nuancebydefault wrote:
| In Belgium, during the notice period, it is allowed to take
| one day per week off for searching for a new job, while being
| paid that day by your company. Even when the employee gave
| their notice! What i mostly do is start the notice period
| only just after signing the new contract. You're not obliged
| to tell your old boss you already signed, so you can still
| take those days off.
| dgunay wrote:
| For those earlier in their career/without a lot of confidence
| built up, leaving your job without something lined up can be
| scary, and it is now the easiest it has ever been to interview
| on the job so why not keep the paychecks coming in?
| nuancebydefault wrote:
| Exactly my point. Even with built-up confidence, leaving
| without a contract in hand feels too scary.
| cebert wrote:
| I wish interviewing wasn't so involved and instead folks could
| enter trial periods with employers after some basic behavioral
| interviews.
| vasco wrote:
| Most jobs have probation periods on top of the interviewing,
| during which time it's way easier to fire an employee for any
| reason. This might work differently in the US where I guess you
| can always fire for any reason at any time regardless of
| probation.
| ghaff wrote:
| Yes, but in practice, unless business conditions really
| change or there's a major disconnect between you and the
| company of some sort, it's a safe assumption that a
| professional job will mostly set you up for a year or two. An
| explicit we'll see how things go for the next couple of
| months before we extend a real offer would set off a lot of
| alarm bells.
| axg11 wrote:
| In the new remote tech world, it's easier than ever to interview
| while on the job. Obviously it depends on your meeting load and
| how regularly unplanned work/meetings arise.
|
| I have a suspicion this is another factor contributing to lower
| retention rates across the industry. Before the pandemic, if a
| recruiter contacted me I would have to weigh all the benefits of
| the role against the hassle of interviewing, including figuring
| out how to leave the office discreetly and potentially block off
| consecutive days. Now, it's trivial for anyone to schedule
| interviews during hours without meetings.
|
| Effectively, the bar for accepting an interview loop from a
| candidate's point-of-view is lower when they are fully remote.
|
| On the flip side, if you're fully remote and find it difficult to
| job hunt while working, then that's a good reason to leave! Your
| role likely isn't giving you enough autonomy.
| ryandrake wrote:
| Finding a job is not just interviewing. It's a massive time
| sink. Researching companies, filling out applications and web
| forms, "quick" phone chats with recruiters who refuse to just
| dump info over E-mail, re-studying fundamentals, grinding
| leetcode or other skills prep, doing company take-home tests
| and "challenges". And then for every 100 applications, you
| might get interviews at 10 companies, producing 1 offer. It's
| quite a bit of busy work, and if you have many work
| deliverables or are booked solid in meetings 8:30 to 6:00,
| you're not really going to have time to do it. I've always had
| to take blocks of time off (vacation or unpaid time off) in
| order to seriously get another job.
| gibolt wrote:
| The recruiter calls are the worst waste of time! On top of
| that, if a recruiting agency sets you up, you're looking at
| an additional call with each company recruiter and/or hiring
| manager, before even starting to interview.
|
| On top of that, each individual call/interview takes up some
| adjacent time to schedule + prep and occupies your headspace
| until it happens.
| cecilpl2 wrote:
| This has not been my experience at all. My three most recent
| job switches (over 5 years) have gone like this:
|
| 1. Ex-coworker or recruiter reaches out with an opportunity
| that sounds interesting.
|
| 2. I ask for comp range and make sure it's acceptable (50%+
| increase).
|
| 3. I go through the interview loop and get an offer
|
| In there have been maybe 3-4 short recruiter calls that went
| nowhere for fit or comp reasons. In my life, once I got to
| the tech screen stage I have gotten an offer 6 out of 9
| times.
|
| Is this other people's experience as well? Maybe I have just
| been extraordinarily lucky?
| BlargMcLarg wrote:
| Three times 50%? So 337.5%+ of your salary pre-first hop? I
| assure you, the far majority will not just get offers for
| that, if they can even find a job willing to make such a
| jump in comp. They'll be looking for those offers
| themselves. If only for the fact most devs are still in the
| first 5 years of their career.
| BlargMcLarg wrote:
| >producing 1 offer
|
| And then the resulting offer isn't even on par with your
| current comp.
|
| It's almost as if the entire thing is designed maliciously on
| purpose.
| grepLeigh wrote:
| I've thought about piloting a temp personal assistant service
| for software engineers during their job search.
|
| Imagine the following...
|
| - Recruiter outreach is filtered / summarized.
|
| - Recruiter phone screens are scheduled for you, batched
| together.
|
| - Your assistant pre-screens for basic preferences: remote,
| salary, company size, role scope/level.
|
| - Interview loops are scheduled for you.
|
| - Receive a packet of spaced repetition exercises (optional),
| digest of Blind/Glassdoors messages, compensation data from
| the company/industry/area.
|
| - Negotiation practice, coaching
|
| In my experience, "forwarding this to my assistant for
| scheduling" is a power move.
|
| Some of above is handled by agency-style recruiting
| (Cybercoders) but the quality of those leads is on the low
| end. The high-end recruiting agencies focus on the employer
| side of the equation. Feels like there's an interesting gap
| for a service focused on a highly-skilled candidate's side of
| the equation.
| manesioz wrote:
| When I was an intern at my first company, my term was nearing
| it's end and I wanted to get another role elsewhere.
|
| I booked a small meeting room during work hours for an interview,
| but as I was about to enter I noticed my boss was already in
| there. I guess he didn't check the schedule.
|
| Panicking, I had 2 minutes until the interview and nowhere to
| take it. I ended up going into the office gym and doing it on a
| bench while someone was running on a treadmill in the background.
|
| Funny times, I ended up getting the offer too.
| valleyjo wrote:
| I couldn't do it. I tried but it was too difficult for me to find
| a balance.
|
| I had to use my paternity leave to find a new job. if that didn't
| work out I was going to quit after leave and continue looking
| full time. I made a lot of sacrifices and thankfully it was worth
| it in the end. But I realize so many folks can't make such
| sacrifices.
| kraftman wrote:
| It was harder to interview while employed than while on
| paternity leave?
| yakak wrote:
| I would like to assume having a kid wasn't just a ploy to get
| paternity leave..
| saagarjha wrote:
| No, it's definitely a ploy to get some time to interview
| around.
| dString wrote:
| Do many companies ask for birth certificates?
| ketzo wrote:
| Honestly, this is just a great interview prep post in general,
| day-job or no.
| mhzsh wrote:
| Yeah, I mean the part of doing this while having a job
| shouldn't be rocket science: "I have an appointment" is usually
| a good enough reason to take some time at the beginning or end
| of day.
| ketzo wrote:
| Ehh.. the social norms around this are pretty ingrained.
| People _do_ feel weird just saying "I have an appointment"
| for a job interview -- even though, like you're saying, they
| shouldn't.
|
| So I think writing like this, which explicitly spells out the
| ways in which this person "violated" these silly social
| norms, is good. It can kind of give people permission to do
| something they already know they should be allowed to do.
| hizxy wrote:
| You're crazy. Do not tell a trusted coworker about your
| intentions. It's a risk. Shut up and interview. What's the
| benefit of telling anyone at your current gig?
| nuancebydefault wrote:
| If the coworker is your friend, why not? It has helped me
| finding assurance and the coworkers even helped me finding a
| new job.
| hizxy wrote:
| Because they could unintentionally leak that info to the
| wrong people? I dunno I'm not that trusting.
| drekipus wrote:
| I agree with this and it's what I did when I changed my
| employers.
|
| If they're your friends, you celebrate getting the job with
| them. Don't tell them the plans beforehand because that is
| just opening yourself up for problems. And you do end up
| looking a bit worse if you keep trying to find new places
| but not getting anywhere.
|
| _(Not to say to distrust your friends; it 's just that
| people chat naturally. secrets never remain secret for
| long.)_
|
| I actually found my new job on stack overflow while i was
| searching for something while at work. I applied, had a
| month long interview, and I only told my friends when I was
| up to the final stages of the interview. but we were a
| cynical bunch and we were all lamenting to leave, so they
| enjoyed the idea of the place falling apart after I left.
|
| I also told them a few of my failures earlier in the year,
| so they knew what i was up to, but they often didn't have
| specifics that someone else in the company could try and
| pin me by.
| vmception wrote:
| Agreed! Not at the same company!
|
| If you really have noone outside of work to talk to && need to
| then get a therapist, or a dog, or COD warzone buddies
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