[HN Gopher] Never hose out a Honda Element
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Never hose out a Honda Element
Author : gkop
Score : 122 points
Date : 2022-04-12 21:10 UTC (1 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (fifthelementcamping.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (fifthelementcamping.com)
| [deleted]
| danchoe wrote:
| I was curious so I looked up what the floor of an Element looks
| like: https://i.imgur.com/Q3zlB6M.jpg
|
| Looks like it's meant to catch all the spills from the rear
| passenger section but applying any water to the front is no
| bueno.
|
| Note to self: don't buy a used Element.
| smm11 wrote:
| Test-drove one when they came out, and I was told you could hose
| them out. We said it would be an ideal vehicle to carry bicycles,
| and the sales guy said "I can do you one better. You can not only
| carry bicycles, but you can hose out the inside when you get
| home!"
| duxup wrote:
| I would love if I could hose out my car or , house, but I would
| be pretty skeptical if someone told me I could.
| caycep wrote:
| that's sad...it would be the perfect vehicle from a form factor
| standpoint to do this. Would that they could just spend the extra
| production bux to put extra rustproofing and drain holes in it
| for this...
| bin_bash wrote:
| I agree. Wranglers have drain holes and it seems to me there
| would be a market for a less offroad capable, more practical
| car with similar water resistance.
| jacquesm wrote:
| That's not that simple, actually. Drain holes by themselves are
| going to allow moisture _in_ to the car as well, and being
| holes the edges will need to be protected, usually drain holes
| will have some rubber insert for that. But then they are no
| longer flush, so some water will pool. I 've welded plenty of
| car bottoms where moisture had done a very thorough job of
| rusting things out, drain holes are typically a fantastic way
| to get a problem, rarely a way to solve a problem.
|
| Some convertibles have this done the right way, but there the
| whole car is designed from the ground up for this, and that
| includes the upholstery, the electronics placement, the way the
| cables are routed and so on. If that isn't the case your best
| bet is to keep moisture and fluids on the other side of the
| bodywork.
| [deleted]
| bendbro wrote:
| If you hose it out and it rusts, the problem of no drain holes is
| fixed, right?
| luma wrote:
| I'm curious how this is currently the top story on HN. A now-
| discontinued and otherwise entirely unremarkable family vehicle
| is not able to be inundated with water without serious
| consequences, much like the overwhelming majority of passenger
| vehicles made before or since.
|
| Who is the audience for this?
| [deleted]
| everly wrote:
| It's mostly the Mandela-esque effect of everyone seeming to
| remember it being a supposedly washable interior.
|
| Plus the Element sort of has an outsized place in American
| popular car culture, not unlike the Pontiac Aztek. That's my
| best guess anyway. Hard to explain but it makes sense to me
| seeing it here.
| function_seven wrote:
| Yeah you nailed it. Until just now I thought you could hose
| these things out. I thought that was the entire point of the
| plastic interior: hoseability.
|
| Like public bathrooms with central drain and continuous tile
| from the floor and up the wall.
|
| I've never owned an Element--I hope that if I did, I'd figure
| out the truth of this myth--but it's definitely a very common
| one.
| numbsafari wrote:
| > entirely unremarkable family vehicle
|
| That's blasphemy right there.
|
| It's the best of a group Of vehicles designed by Boomers for
| millennials that ended up only being bought by Boomers, since
| discontinued for no good reason.
|
| Honda's major sin here was not updating it with modern
| electronics or a more efficient engine.
|
| It is smaller than the current CR-V.
|
| Such a shame.
| bloomingeek wrote:
| I agree, the Element was a great vehicle, I think it was a
| little overpriced, but it is a Honda. I would love an updated
| version now that I can afford one.
| HWR_14 wrote:
| > vehicles designed by Boomers for millennials
|
| As I recall, they were designed by Boomers for younger
| versions of themselves, and priced for Boomers wanting to
| feel young again. That, of course, necessitated ads
| theoretically aimed at millennials
| drums8787 wrote:
| I'd buy an updated Element in a minute. Meanwhile I'm holding
| on to the one I have. And I'd never hose it down.
| jacquesm wrote:
| They did in fact update the engine (at least once). I tried
| finding one here in Europe but they are pretty much
| impossible to come by unless you want to import one from the
| USA which has a ton of problems for a car that is not
| officially carried here.
| numbsafari wrote:
| I put 250k miles on an '08 before, very reluctantly,
| selling it to a kid for his first vehicle.
|
| The '08 had been "updated".
|
| But they never offered it with factory installed nav,
| despite having a very "ahead of its times" sound system. It
| also had terrible gas mileage.
|
| Sure, it was less aerodynamic than a Mac truck, but Honda
| could have revisited it.
|
| Much like my dearly departed Vanagon, there's nothing new
| like it on the market.
| jacquesm wrote:
| I have a VW Transporter that started life as a taxi cab.
| 9 seater, rubberized floor. I put a longer 5th gear in it
| and removed the LNG system (ridiculous taxes otherwise),
| it's pretty economic and can haul a ton of stuff. The
| whole neighborhood here uses it :)
|
| It being an ex taxi bi-fuel I bought it super cheap with
| low mileage.
| ramesh31 wrote:
| > A now-discontinued and otherwise entirely unremarkable family
| vehicle
|
| The Honda Element was a very special car. I never understood it
| until I spent time with a friend who has owned one for years.
| They have a cult following for good reason. You can fit full
| size furniture in the cargo bay, while still parking in a
| compact spot. With people piled in the back, you can easily
| carry 6 passengers at double the MPG of a full size SUV or van.
| The handling is tight and smooth; nothing like an SUV or truck.
| The clearance is equivalent to a Wrangler. And Honda
| reliability means these things are still on the road in perfect
| condition at 300k+ miles. I could go on and on, but suffice to
| say the Element was not "just" an unremarkable family vehicle.
| It absolutely _nailed_ a utilitarian niche that no other
| vehicle has come close to before or since.
| freetime2 wrote:
| I have never owned, or even considered buying a Honda Element.
| But I have heard the rumor that they can be hosed out, and I
| know they have a bit of a cult following, so that was enough to
| arouse my curiosity. I clicked the link, had some previously
| held misconception dispelled, and saw some images of a rusted
| out element. All in all I was not disappointed.
| Douger wrote:
| And yet we've clicked on it!
| devy wrote:
| It looks like this is a Honda Element fan site. But I wonder if
| floor panel rusting is a design flaw, how come the lawyers
| haven't all jump on the class action suit bandwagon...
| cpsns wrote:
| Floor panels rust if they end up in constant contact with
| dampness, it's not a design flaw so much as the expected
| result. You should never let the floor inside the car stay
| damp/wet.
|
| In places where salt is heavily used on roads new floor pans
| are something you'll see regularly completely rusted out.
| kllrnohj wrote:
| Unless Honda advertised or recommended hosing it out, what
| would lawyers go after? As far as I know Honda themselves
| didn't advertise this, it was some odd public myth that spread
| rapidly
| not_the_fda wrote:
| The user manual specifically says not to hose it out.
| qbasic_forever wrote:
| It's steel, it will rust. No one would want to spend the huge
| increase in cost for a fully stainless steel car. DeLorean
| tried!
| Aloha wrote:
| That's not even really severe rust - most of it is just surface,
| easy to treat it with naval jelly/rust neutralizer.
| kube-system wrote:
| The second photo shows two large holes in the driver footwell
| and one in the passenger side. The last 4 photos show where it
| was cut out and patched. It's not difficult to patch with some
| sheet metal and a welder, but it's labor intensive.
| jacquesm wrote:
| It can get difficult in a hurry if the rusted out spots are
| near where wiring is sandwiched between the various metal
| parts. I've done my share of repairs like these and if you
| only end up doing what you think you'll be doing when you
| start the job then consider yourself lucky.
| gedy wrote:
| Random FYI, but the article shows repairs using POR15 paint. It's
| pretty nasty to work with, and I highly recommend MasterSeries
| paint as an alternative: http://masterseriesct.com
|
| No affiliation, just learned the hard way with my 1960s VW
| Beetle.
| kcb wrote:
| Reminded me where I have seen POR-15 before. Seems to be good
| stuff. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ag46YUovPUc
| jacquesm wrote:
| I use a single component moisture cure coating made for the
| maritime applications and it is awesome.
| murderfs wrote:
| Especially after defragmenting your wife
| jacquesm wrote:
| That was a Civic... and that reference is in pretty poor taste.
| byoung2 wrote:
| My wife had a 2006 Element. The salesman at the dealer told that
| hose it out lie. A quick Google search back then debunked it,
| thankfully.
| kipchak wrote:
| Honda described the element as having an easy to wipe down
| utility floor, and waterproof seat fabric. I think somewhere
| along the line that merged into waterproof floor in peoples
| minds.
|
| https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5505836ae4b015246aa27...
| riffic wrote:
| stick it in a bag of rice
| chrisseaton wrote:
| I don't get it - would you would think you can hose out a
| consumer car like this, with the fabric seats and all that
| plastic trim? I've hosed out Land Rovers, but they're clearly an
| off-road vehicle designed for wading.
| Barrera wrote:
| It's in the video embedded at the bottom. What appears to be a
| representative of Honda says the following about the then-
| concept car (0:40):
|
| "It's got kind of a wash-and-wear interior. You can kind of
| completely hose out the interior if you wanted to."
| assttoasstmgr wrote:
| "I hit a skunk, Karen"
| mmaunder wrote:
| This is why "kind of" is such a popular caveat.
| cookie_monsta wrote:
| And why "if you wanted to" is such a brilliant disclaimer.
| uuyi wrote:
| Having driven Land Rovers in the form of series, defender and
| discovery, I wouldn't hose one out either. The upholstery rots
| and stinks and the fittings go rusty too. If you're doing
| wading and off road stuff you need to tear the entire guts out
| and start again. And then the bulkhead equipped vehicles will
| fall to bits within a few years as well.
| chrisseaton wrote:
| I've been hosing out my Defenders and wading them above the
| door seals for years and there's no significant rust yet.
| They have rubber floor mats instead of upholstery. But they
| are maintained professionally.
| lb1lf wrote:
| If memory serves - I have never put it to the test - my
| HZJ78 Land Cruiser owner's manual says wading depth is
| 700mm (doors closed), 875mm (doors open) - presumably the
| added depth with doors open is down to the reduced
| buoyancy.
|
| Part of me really wants to try it out once, though.
| chrisseaton wrote:
| I think the new Defender is 900mm doors closed, which is
| pretty deep!
| uuyi wrote:
| You won't find it until your foot goes through something or
| something falls off. I had a 1990 defender 90 which was 8
| years old and the bulkhead was invisibly rotten in various
| places. That got very expensive very quickly. A friend has
| a more modern 110 that's only 6 years old and has the same
| problem.
|
| This is not an issue in some areas and dry climates as a
| rule but in the UK it sucks owning one.
|
| I don't own one now. I drive a little French go cart then I
| use my legs for off road. They last longer, don't go rusty
| and run on dried fruit and sandwiches.
| shubb wrote:
| A lot of Landrovers used in off roady places around the world
| are ex-army models. Maybe they were more water tolerantly
| trimmed. E.g. at one point you could buy Landrover Rover Wolf
| fairly cheap I think
| uuyi wrote:
| Not really. The wolfs suck. 24v electrics and stripped bare
| of everything even remotely nice. And yes they go rusty
| too. They mostly tend to survive in desert climates longer
| as they are surrounded by desiccants and clever engineers
| who can weld things that fell off back on again.
| ungamedplayer wrote:
| Stripped bare is a feature. Less shit that can go wrong.
| drewzero1 wrote:
| It was very widely reported that the car interior was designed
| to be washed with a hose. That would have been a big selling
| point for me except that it only had four seats, and it looked
| like a shed.
| ungamedplayer wrote:
| It's barely a shed. Check out the cybertruck for something
| that looks like a backyard shed.
| mmaunder wrote:
| Only time I hosed out a car is my uncle's car when it ended up
| in the ocean. Was low-tide and tons of seagrass on the boat
| launch. Lost traction and just slowly slid all the way into the
| ocean. Actually turned out OK after a serious fresh-water bath
| and carefully drying out everything.
|
| Hosing out a car under normal circumstances is insane. I
| recently worked on a Dodge 12V diesel 1994 truck. Removed all
| interior carpet and WIPED out all the nastiness and vacuumed up
| the bits etc. Got it down to the metal and really nice and
| clean. Then layered up on Dynamat in prep for installing a
| high-end sound system and got a great result.
|
| Unless you've destroyed the vehicle anyway by dipping it in
| sea-water, don't hose out your car.
|
| A really great check to do if you're buying used is to look
| under the driver's seat for rust. It indicates flooding. In the
| case of pickups, it means they either submerged it or used it
| as a mudder. Red flag. Walk away.
| mortenjorck wrote:
| The author references the "hose" comment in the 1998 unveiling
| of the concept car that would become the Element, but I think
| they greatly underplay the degree to which this idea caught on
| with the public and in the press, especially in non-automotive
| publications.
|
| I'm pretty sure it was an issue of Wired in the early 2000s
| where I read about this futuristic new SUV from Honda with,
| among other clever details, "a floor you could hose down." It
| became an unofficial selling point for the Element, and I would
| imagine most people exposed to the meme never knew the vehicle
| was not in fact designed for such a use until they saw this
| blog post.
| kube-system wrote:
| Wranglers have fabric and plastic trim, and they specifically
| advertise that the floor can be hosed out. The difference is
| that it has drains (and floor != seat).
| djrogers wrote:
| They do not advertise that (at least not in North America) -
| the carpet will get ruined.
| oceanplexian wrote:
| I ripped all the carpet out of my older Jeep and bedlinered
| the interior floor pan. When the top is off an the interior
| is covered in mud "wipe it with a damp cloth" isn't a viable
| strategy, now it's much easier to clean.
| yazboo wrote:
| I don't know where the meme came from but I've heard it from
| two independent Honda Element owners, and it comes up on random
| SEO-spam blogs as a benefit of the Element if you're searching
| for "dog-friendly" cars. I never thought to question it myself
| - the trunk area does look like something you could hit with a
| hose. Glad this made #1 on Hacker News before I bought one!
| caymanjim wrote:
| The whole floor is covered by a plastic sheet. It looks like
| it's safe to hose out, and unless it's damaged, it will hold
| pools of water. I never intentionally hosed out the whole
| interior of mine, but I did spray a lot of water around the
| front seats when I first got the car from someone who never
| cleaned it. The water pooled up to the point that I had to
| scoop it out and towel the rest. I suspect it was a bad idea,
| but if you saw it you'd think it's the best way to clean it.
| stjohnswarts wrote:
| because you wouldn't hose it out with everything in it, only
| after you removed the seats and such. personally I never would,
| as it doesn't take that much extra elbow grease to just use a
| pail and wash cloth/dry cloth.
| Wistar wrote:
| About 2005 or so a co-worker bought a new Toyota FJ Cruiser,
| kept it for a week and then showed up with a Honda Element.
| When I asked him why he said, "The FJ is just too fussy. I go
| hiking and fishing with the dogs and, with this Element, I can
| just hose it out."
|
| Apparently not.
| bstar77 wrote:
| I was looking at one of these at the dealership in the early
| 2000's and the sales guy told me I could just hose it out after
| a day at the beach. It seemed plausible considering there was
| no carpeting and the seats could be folded up.
| cowmix wrote:
| Yup, I heard the same thing.
|
| My buddy bought one and he would hose his out all the time.
| seanalltogether wrote:
| My roommate did the same. I remember him telling me that
| was one of the key reasons he bought it as he was an avid
| camper and would take the dog along and let everything get
| dirty then hose it out.
| anamax wrote:
| I remember being told that hosing out an Element would ruin the
| electrics, that they aren't sealed.
|
| Rust too eh.
| bloomingeek wrote:
| Early 70's and before pickup trucks could be hosed out, but when
| you were finished you needed to "broom" out the excess water.
| These were the trucks which had regular floor mats, just leave
| the two doors open for a little while to air out the cab.
| tannedNerd wrote:
| I had one and remember hearing the rumor but seeing how run off
| from snow would pool I never believed it. Still one of the best
| and most utilitarian cars I ever owned. Beach day, snow day,
| moving it did it all. Especially with the fold up seats!
| dole wrote:
| Loved ours until it got in a wreck, still consider picking a
| used one up. My only complaint ever was the 4-cyl being
| underpowered.
|
| Folded the seats up to the sides, moved a full-sized clothes
| washer and dryer upright in the back, a lot roomier than it
| looks. (Edit: I luckily was not dumb enough to hose it out.)
| gotaquestion wrote:
| I don't know how many times I promoted this myth, and I never
| even owned one. Ironically, I really want one now because
| conversion vans are way too expensive, and Elements had great
| clearance, space, and 4WD. I hope they make a comeback.
| ourmandave wrote:
| There's a Element group on Facebook where people post ones for
| sale.
|
| The admins insist on pics from every angle and ton of details
| so there's nothing sketchy. Of course high miles are the norm
| because the last model year was 10 years ago.
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