[HN Gopher] Silly Image Compression Idea
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       Silly Image Compression Idea
        
       Author : sn_fk_n
       Score  : 27 points
       Date   : 2022-04-10 17:04 UTC (5 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (snufk.in)
 (TXT) w3m dump (snufk.in)
        
       | can16358p wrote:
       | This reminded me of a weird idea that I had several years ago
       | (which is kind of opposite of this):
       | 
       | What if there was a format that doesn't encode pixels but
       | generates a "description" of the images using AI, of simple
       | shapes to higher-level objects, and saves that in its own format,
       | with a "decoder" that takes this input description format and
       | constructs an image similar to the original, at least to some
       | extent.
       | 
       | Of course this would have many drawbacks like encoding micro
       | details and expressions of people, but still, I'd love to see how
       | far the idea can go.
        
         | ausbah wrote:
         | sounds like vector graphics?
        
         | pavlov wrote:
         | This could be useful to reduce Disney's bandwidth costs. Marvel
         | and Star Wars productions are highly repetitive anyway, so
         | maybe they could ship a preloaded Marvel neural network in the
         | player app and design new movies to take maximum advantage of
         | the cliches already encoded there.
        
           | forgotusername6 wrote:
           | They used to literally reuse the animation in older Disney
           | films, just with different characters on top. You could send
           | that information, the scene and the characters, in
           | significantly fewer bits than it would take as video
        
         | magicalhippo wrote:
         | Not entirely unlike fractal compression[1]. Was a lot of hype
         | around it way back, but clearly it didn't quite pan out.
         | 
         | [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fractal_compression
        
         | gfody wrote:
         | that's roughly the idea for gan-based image compression, check
         | out: https://data.vision.ee.ethz.ch/aeirikur/extremecompression
        
         | steanne wrote:
         | that's like heraldry, rebuilding an image from a
         | precise/regimented verbal description
        
         | gjvnq wrote:
         | It's called SVG :)
        
         | sbierwagen wrote:
         | Venor Vinge, A Fire Upon The Deep (1992):
         | 
         | >Fleet Central refused the full video link coming from the Out
         | of Band ... Kjet had to settle for a combat link: The screen
         | showed a color image with high resolution. Looking at it
         | carefully, one realized the thing was a poor evocation.... Kjet
         | recognized Owner Limmende and Jan Skrits, her chief of staff,
         | but they looked several years out of style: old video matched
         | with the transmitted animation cues. The actual communication
         | channel was less than four thousand bits per second
         | 
         | >The picture was crisp and clear, but when the figures moved it
         | was with cartoonlike awkwardness. And some of the faces
         | belonged to people Kjet knew had been transferred before the
         | fall of Sjandra Kei. The processors here on the Olvira were
         | taking the narrowband signal from Fleet Central, fleshing it
         | out with detailed (and out of date) background and evoking the
         | image shown.
        
       | pizza wrote:
       | PixelCNN++ does this, kinda. Residual blocks that use downsampled
       | versions of the image. Though in that context, it gets used for
       | lossless compression by entropy coding the likelihoods of each
       | pixel.
       | 
       | This idea - trying to investigate behavior at different scale
       | parameters - is also related to renormalization. But I think you
       | can go further than this - currently you are just preserving that
       | which remains consistent. You should also somehow store the
       | complement of that information - the difference between the
       | original and what you get after downscaling then upscaling the
       | downscaled version again.
       | 
       | I imagine it's going to be mostly the noisy data local to certain
       | regions of the image, some kind of high frequency details. But if
       | you keep track of both, you can make each rescaling bijective,
       | making your 'compression' invertible, hence lossless, in some
       | sense. Whether you get any size savings doing that is another
       | question altogether :^)
        
       | melony wrote:
       | Congrats on reinventing the autoencoder!
        
         | canjobear wrote:
         | This isn't an autoencoder.
        
       | kazinator wrote:
       | > _What would image compression look like if designed around
       | other things perceptions?_
       | 
       | If the other creature's vision is in a different wavelength
       | range, then RGB images are not applicable to it at all, in the
       | first place.
        
       | malkia wrote:
       | That's "dictionary" compression still. AI checks for hints to
       | lookup in well... dictionary. If the dictionary changes, your
       | compression results change too.
        
       | nullc wrote:
       | the smallest compressor is just the (differentiable) classier
       | itself. The compressed image is just the output class, and the
       | de-compressor generates a random image then back propagates the
       | class error until it gets an image that has the right class.
       | Maybe you toss in a random seed in the format, so the compressor
       | can spend some more time to guarantee the de-compressor will
       | complete in a reasonable amount of time.
        
       | klyrs wrote:
       | Compression with no plan in sight for decompression... at least
       | it's billed as "silly" first and foremost.
        
         | jtsiskin wrote:
         | Compression doesn't imply decompression... see JPEG, H264,
         | etc...
        
           | dahart wrote:
           | Maybe you could elaborate... what do you mean? Both of those
           | examples (JPEG, H264) have decompressors for viewing, right?
        
         | elpocko wrote:
         | I've seen worse; someone presented code for decompression of a
         | fictional data format with no plan in sight for compression.
         | 
         | When I asked how the compression part would be implemented, the
         | author called me stupid for asking this question and told me
         | the project was inspired by
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sloot_Digital_Coding_System
        
           | klyrs wrote:
           | That is simply amazing, thanks for sharing :)
        
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