[HN Gopher] Persepolis of ancient Persia rendered in WebGL
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Persepolis of ancient Persia rendered in WebGL
        
       Author : avestura
       Score  : 767 points
       Date   : 2022-04-09 04:52 UTC (18 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (persepolis.getty.edu)
 (TXT) w3m dump (persepolis.getty.edu)
        
       | westoncb wrote:
       | Extremely well done (at least for desktop). Many seem to dislike
       | that it's scroll-controlled, but tbh I would've given up
       | immediately if it were free navigation--I didn't feel like
       | wandering around looking for things, just wanted to observe the
       | sights. And since the core structure is a sequential list of
       | sights, the scroll interface is a nice way of keeping that linear
       | structure in place while automatically choosing nice camera
       | positions along the transitions.
       | 
       | There are many other small interaction cues that are expertly
       | done, bringing in various optional jump-off points (e.g. viewing
       | the same scene present day) without breaking continuity to
       | explicitly teach anything. Another example: highlighting text on
       | in-scene plaques as they're read (with high quality voice-
       | acting). This is a well thought through experience.
        
         | mmphosis wrote:
         | What if I am using a mouse without a scroll wheel?
        
           | djKianoosh wrote:
           | I would guess arrow keys?
        
             | mmphosis wrote:
             | The arrow keys don't work. The scroll bar doesn't work.
             | Having to use a scroll wheel or swipe continually is a
             | pain.
        
       | LeanderK wrote:
       | I am a bit disappointed that it's always those grand palaces. I
       | also want to see the environment in which average people lived,
       | this is harder for me to imagine than those grand temples.
        
         | thaumasiotes wrote:
         | Average people lived in huts in the countryside; peasants still
         | lived in physically similar huts into the twentieth century.
         | (Maybe they still do!) I assume photographs are available.
         | 
         | The population of a city spanned a wide economic range, but if
         | you want to talk about an "average person", cities didn't
         | exist.
        
       | sytelus wrote:
       | On iPad things get stuck at the stairs.
        
         | gilgoomesh wrote:
         | Same on my iPhone
        
           | gilgoomesh wrote:
           | I reloaded a few times and got past it. Load lag? Site
           | overwhelmed. Unsure.
        
       | berkut wrote:
       | Why's it slightly noisy? It never resolves to clean when the
       | camera's still, so it doesn't seem to be MC noise for something
       | like ambient occlusion or raytracing/pathtracing, so I assume
       | it's just a 2D effect on top of the image for look?
        
         | mordae wrote:
         | I guess to reduce banding and soften shadow edges. Specifically
         | the glossy floors would probably look much worse without it.
        
         | krautsourced wrote:
         | They put an add-noise filter on top. It's often used to give it
         | a more 'filmic' look and also hides away some uniformity in
         | simple textures. Plain, plan surfaces look very fake, add some
         | noise and suddenly it feels more 'real'.
         | 
         | Plus someone probably decided it would look cool...
        
         | Etherlord87 wrote:
         | > It never resolves to clean when the camera's still
         | 
         | Perhaps it just doesn't stack the renders - if it did, changing
         | view would decrease the image quality back to low samples,
         | maybe that's the reason...
        
       | zelphirkalt wrote:
       | All of the interior is rendered black. I can only see silhouettes
       | of things. It seems to be broken.
        
       | choward wrote:
       | Horrible UI but would be cool otherwise. On an Android and the
       | performance was fine but way too much finger swiping.
        
         | zackmorris wrote:
         | I was able to click the scene with the mouse and then press the
         | page down key to scroll at normal pace in a desktop browser.
         | 
         | But I had to keep clicking every time a new scene loaded, which
         | I consider an unforced error. I'm always so impressed with the
         | level of effort that goes into these types of projects, but so
         | baffled that so many obvious issues always seem to slip by
         | somehow! My guess is that some issue with the scroll hijacking
         | made this difficult to fix, like maybe a loader framework
         | resets the focus and they didn't have an easy way to modify its
         | code or something.
        
         | tarsinge wrote:
         | On a laptop with trackpad it was enjoyable for me.
        
           | lelandfe wrote:
           | On my laptop, I disliked that I couldn't scroll back to
           | previous sections when you move, and wished I could scroll at
           | my own pace. Whole thing was buttery smooth though, I'm
           | impressed.
        
             | maxerickson wrote:
             | The button in the upper right pops out a map where you can
             | re-enter a section.
        
         | connicpu wrote:
         | Yeah, I gave up because it was nearly impossible to move
         | precisely between segments. It kept either not being enough and
         | resetting back to a stop point, or my frustrated flicks skipped
         | over 3 whole segments
        
         | bitcharmer wrote:
         | Yeah, I'm on mobile and gave up less than a minute in.
        
       | andretti1977 wrote:
       | I find it amazing and really interesting, but i have a "side"
       | question: does anybody know how much does it cost to realize such
       | a great work?
        
         | truly wrote:
         | There are around 20 persons credited at the end, so that should
         | give a rough estimate. It is quite well done.
         | 
         | Animation and graphics is quite expensive to develop, since
         | iterations in the development loop can take quite some time
         | (think: do a few changes, render everything, start up the
         | animation, check if it looks right, repeat).
        
         | Andrew_nenakhov wrote:
         | Approx 20% of gdp of the Achaemenid empire x 200 years.
        
       | behiri wrote:
       | You can look around with click and drag but you can't move. There
       | was some art that I wanted to look at from close but I couldn't.
       | at least an ability to zoom would have been good.
        
       | TheAceOfHearts wrote:
       | This is beautiful.
       | 
       | Does anyone know how many of those colors are believed to be
       | historically accurate representations vs artistic license? The
       | paint has long since faded, but perhaps the colors have been
       | identified through some kind of anlysis?
       | 
       | There was a recent article here on HN which made me realize the
       | importance of communicating what colors are scientifically or
       | historically accurate vs artistic license.
        
         | nigerian1981 wrote:
         | There are surviving examples such as the Archer at the Louvre
         | [1]
         | 
         | [1]https://collections.louvre.fr/en/ark:/53355/cl010210299
        
       | swiftcoder wrote:
       | Whoever designed the navigation in this must have some sort of
       | continuous-scroll device. My scroll-wheel finger would develop
       | RSI by the time I finished exploring that using a normal scroll-
       | wheel mouse...
        
       | skogweb wrote:
       | Worked incredibly on my mac! A bit annoying to navigate by
       | scroll, but nevertheless amazing in my opinion.
        
       | aborsy wrote:
       | Amazing!
        
       | Wowfunhappy wrote:
       | This is cool, but since all positional movement is on-rails, I
       | find myself questioning their decision to use real-time
       | rendering, as opposed to a pre-rendered video that users can
       | scroll through. The latter approach would have allowed Getty to
       | use higher quality models and lighting, and made the experience
       | smoother on low-end devices, possibly at the cost of bandwidth.
       | 
       | A conventional video would mean loosing the ability to drag to
       | look around, but I'm not convinced that this was a significant
       | part of the experience--IIRC, they don't even tell you that it's
       | possible. Alternately, Getty could have sent a 360deg video, at
       | the cost of even more bandwidth.
        
         | haswell wrote:
         | Wouldn't a pre-rendered video also force a single (possibly
         | sub-optimal) experience across various form factors?
         | 
         | > _made the experience smoother on low-end devices, possibly at
         | the cost of bandwidth_
         | 
         | Especially in the context of low-end devices, I don't think the
         | cost of bandwidth should be discounted here.
        
           | Wowfunhappy wrote:
           | > Wouldn't a pre-rendered video also force a single (possibly
           | sub-optimal) experience across various form factors?
           | 
           | Since they'd still be working from a 3D scene, they could
           | easily render ten different videos (or twenty, or thirty) and
           | send a different one depending on the device.
           | 
           | > Especially in the context of low-end devices, I don't think
           | the cost of bandwidth should be discounted here.
           | 
           | I agree, which is why I'm not _positive_ they did the wrong
           | thing, I 'm just skeptical.
           | 
           | The thing is, it's not as though their current approach is
           | particularly light on bandwidth. They appear to be
           | downloading many (all?) of the models and textures ahead of
           | time, which makes sense, since it's hard to predict what will
           | be visible in the viewport first. By contrast, videos
           | naturally lend themselves to incremental streaming.
           | 
           | We're also pretty good at compressing videos these days, and
           | a lot of AAA video games are significantly larger than even
           | movies on BluRay (although I admit, I've never quite grokked
           | how this can be.)
           | 
           | So, I'd be interested to see the bandwidth comparison. It's
           | not entirely obvious to me which would win out.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | digitallyfree wrote:
         | I wonder if a hybrid approach would work well here to maximize
         | both quality and bandwidth, using baked textures and similar
         | techniques. The idea would be to generate the scene dynamically
         | but use pre-calculated lighting, shadows, etc. as much as
         | possible since the content is basically static.
        
           | Wowfunhappy wrote:
           | To be fair, they could be doing this already, I haven't dug
           | in to see how much is dynamic.
        
         | LeftHandPath wrote:
         | I'm not sure that I would've watched this as a video. Being
         | tangentially involved -- having to actively scroll -- seems to
         | make it more engaging. And I wouldn't have been so impressed by
         | the website from a technical perspective.
        
           | Wowfunhappy wrote:
           | Oh, I'm not suggesting they turn this unique experience into
           | a boring Youtube video! But I'm wondering whether instead of
           | rendering the scene client-side in WebGL, they should have
           | sent the browser a series of pre-rendered, 2D frames for the
           | user to scroll through and interact with.
           | 
           | It should end up as exactly the same experience, except
           | possibly without the ability to turn all the way around,
           | depending on whether or not they want to spend bandwidth on a
           | 360deg stream. (They would still need to send a slightly
           | larger FOV than the viewport for their little mouse look
           | effect.)
        
       | purpleidea wrote:
       | Very nice model, but sadly it's Getty, so it's not available to
       | download. That would be a good way to get the story and images
       | out. Make it free to download, and people would turn it into
       | Quake maps, and eventually people would learn more about
       | Persepolis.
        
       | shepherdjerred wrote:
       | It's astounding to me that something so beautiful like this was
       | ever real with or without modern technology. It's incredible what
       | you can do with enough man-hours.
        
       | wookieelover wrote:
       | Not sure what everyone else is having issues with, I've watched
       | this on both my ubuntu boot as well as windows and it's
       | fantastic. I just have an old logitech mouse, nothing fancy, and
       | it's brilliant.
        
       | loudouncodes wrote:
       | Beautiful, but why this design trend of breaking the semantics of
       | scrolling?
        
         | heavenlyblue wrote:
         | Out of all places this is exactly the place where that actually
         | works. "Scroll to walk" is better than "push a button to walk"
         | and works on both mobile and desktop.
        
           | tomc1985 wrote:
           | My kingdom for basic WASD controls and mouselook
        
         | gigglesupstairs wrote:
         | Website is designed for desktop with pretty good UX tbh even if
         | it looks like breaking common patterns. It's a very small
         | learning curve considering it achieves the immersion it intends
         | to.
        
           | IshKebab wrote:
           | Are you sure? These scrolling things are normally designed
           | for mobile. I gave up on the site on desktop because it
           | involves _so much scrolling_.
           | 
           | "Guys lets make a video but where you have to keep scrolling
           | to make it play! That will be fun!"
           | 
           | Impressive rendering and interface but they should have
           | thought about the UI a bit more.
        
             | westoncb wrote:
             | It's nice because scrolling is a 1d interaction, and the
             | path you're navigating is 1d. It's superior to a movie
             | because this scheme makes it super simple to control how
             | long you spend at various points, and they open up optional
             | interactions at various points.
             | 
             | I don't understand why a lot of scrolling would be
             | problematic, doesn't seem different then e.g. pushing arrow
             | keys over and over when playing a video game.
        
               | kroltan wrote:
               | A single repeated movement is very tiring. You compare to
               | games, but games have you press different buttons, and
               | there is usually either some rythm and variety to it, or
               | at least _hold_ the button (e.g. in a racing game you
               | usually hold the acceleration button)
               | 
               | In this website you need to keep scrolling, which is
               | pretty monotonous, it would be equivalent of spamming
               | "next" on an overly complicated late 2000s Windows
               | software installer. Or watching a Youtube video by
               | spamming the frame skip shortcut.
               | 
               | If you want to make a scroll interactive experience
               | (please don't), then at least do the courtesy of having 1
               | scroll gesture = 1 piece of information, don't have users
               | scroll their wheels like 6 times just to wade through a
               | path slowly. Or at the very least support the page
               | up/down buttons!
               | 
               | Look at this video
               | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQ52fo5g03Q. I even
               | accidentally skipped over some text sections because I
               | was scrolling furiously to be able to go anywhere.
               | Finally, I accidentally used the tilt key of my scroll
               | wheel and it went to the previous page, and I had to
               | start all over.
        
               | Wowfunhappy wrote:
               | > In this website you need to keep scrolling, which is
               | pretty monotonous, it would be equivalent of spamming
               | "next" on an overly complicated late 2000s Windows
               | software installer. Or watching a Youtube video by
               | spamming the frame skip shortcut.
               | 
               | Or scrolling through a long document, as the scroll wheel
               | is designed to do?
               | 
               | You're not supposed to scroll straight through, there's
               | stuff to see and read! If you want to skip around,
               | there's navigation on the right side.
        
               | kroltan wrote:
               | > Or scrolling through a long document, as the scroll
               | wheel is designed to do?
               | 
               | And it does with a reasonable speed configurable by the
               | user, which is easily mentally mapped to how much it will
               | move since it's just a 2D surface. For example, I have
               | mine set so each full scroll gesture (as you see in the
               | video) is mapped to a whole screenful of movement. So I
               | know that a complete scroll will show me all new
               | information.
               | 
               | Scrolling through this path, each segment has different
               | lengths and speeds, so you need trial and error to reach
               | a specific point. And then sometimes it's just an
               | animation and your scroll doesn't matter beyond
               | initiating it. Not to mention that it's roughly 3 full
               | scrolls to reach a new POI, the in-between is just
               | transition.
               | 
               | > [...] there's stuff to see [...]
               | 
               | There is not [any more stuff to see thanks to the
               | scrolling], because I can't look around, so it's just a
               | video that wastes more GPU power.
               | 
               | > [...] and read!
               | 
               | Yes! And I skip right through some of it because when
               | there is not a text in sight, I need to spam the wheel to
               | get anywhere and overshoot.
               | 
               | > If you want to skip around, there's navigation on the
               | right side.
               | 
               | True, but it's a miserable experience, since I have to
               | hover each dot individually to know what it's about, as
               | they don't show up on the overview map.
               | 
               | ---
               | 
               | Don't get me wrong, this is an amazing recreation full of
               | very interesting information, it's just presented in the
               | most frustrating possible way to use it. Take heart to
               | the interactive medium, give me WASD and mouse-look! (Or
               | at least a Google Steet View like spherical navigation,
               | since it's probably more accessible) Let me go and walk
               | to a corner so I can look back and see the full scale of
               | the architecture, or wander among the columns of the
               | great halls! This is so much wasted potential just in
               | terms of interactivity.
        
               | Wowfunhappy wrote:
               | Idk, I thought the text was frequent enough for the
               | experience to work.
               | 
               | > I can't look around, so it's just a video that wastes
               | more GPU power.
               | 
               | Fwiw, you can drag to look around most scenes. (Although
               | I actually don't think this added much and agree that
               | using WebGL was probably wasteful:
               | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30965352)
        
           | tomc1985 wrote:
           | I don't know how spinning the scroll wheel until my finger
           | hurts is "immersive", but ok
        
             | uuyi wrote:
             | Pity us poor fools trying to use a touchpad on this. My
             | fingers nearly caught fire.
        
         | kzrdude wrote:
         | They are trying to create an immersive experience with open
         | technology... On the web, for ordinary computers.
         | 
         | I think it's a success. Only tried touchpad scrolling. It's
         | tactile and works.
        
       | larusso wrote:
       | It worked great on my iPhone 13 Pro Max. But it is quite warm
       | now. The scrolling worked well without any hiccups. I didn't test
       | it on my PC yet. The only thing I would wish is a little bit more
       | life in the scenes. I love how games like Tomb Raider or
       | Uncharted give little details some movement. I think the overall
       | presentation is awesome just too clean for my taste.
        
         | M4v3R wrote:
         | > games like Tomb Raider or Uncharted give little details some
         | movement
         | 
         | Remember that those games have budgets of tens of millions of
         | dollars and are built by literally hundreds artists and
         | programmers. Animation is very time consuming (and hence
         | expensive) so it's no wonder to me that the creators of this
         | project opted for a static scene, this way they could deliver
         | something cool more quickly instead of dragging this project
         | for months and risking cancelling it due to lack of funds to
         | finish it.
        
           | larusso wrote:
           | I'm very well aware of this. But I'm also aware that we have
           | game engines like Unity, Unreal or the Cry engine which have
           | webGL options and such and various tools etc to make the
           | process cheaper. I didn't check the credits if it contained a
           | reference to the tools used. It wasn't a critique to the
           | creators of the project or that I think it isn't good. It is
           | really great especially since it runs in the browser and
           | looks as good as it does but again just too static for me. I
           | would wish if it contained a little bit more ambient
           | elements.
        
       | lekevicius wrote:
       | Not directly related, but I can still recommend "Assassin's Creed
       | Odyssey" as a very enjoyable recreation of key places and
       | buildings around ancient Greece. Ubisoft spent a considerable
       | effort to research and recreate some highlights, and being able
       | to freely walk around help a lot with immersion.
        
         | evilturnip wrote:
         | Came here to see if someone mentioned this. It truly is
         | breathtaking. There's a youtube video with an ancient greece
         | scholar giving a commentary as a player walks through ancient
         | Athens in the game.
         | 
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etq7Rw5ioUI
        
       | krautsourced wrote:
       | If you play Elden Ring and get to the Southeastern Palace
       | scene... :)
        
       | xaedes wrote:
       | Nice stuff, but that scrolling navigation? Well I am gonna send
       | you bills of my doctor.
        
       | azaras wrote:
       | This is wonderful.
       | 
       | I would like having something like this with virtual reality
       | glasses to visit historic sites like Roman Forum, Pompeia,
       | Delphic Panhellenic Sanctuary, the Aqueduct of Segovia, The Roman
       | theatre of Merida...
       | 
       | If a tenth of the money spend in games were spend in make such a
       | projects...
        
         | fragkakis wrote:
         | I don't know if it qualifies, but there is this for ancient
         | Olympia, created by Microsoft:
         | 
         | https://inculture.microsoft.com/arts/ancient-olympia-common-...
        
       | stevebmark wrote:
       | This is completely unusable on an iPhobe
        
       | ar7hur wrote:
       | I visited Persepolis in 2016 -- having this experience before the
       | actual visit would have been incredible!
        
         | ehsankia wrote:
         | I visited maybe around a decade ago, and was truly saddened by
         | the state of it. It was all in ruin, maybe 1 guard watching the
         | whole area, anyone could come, take a piece and leave, and many
         | unfortunately do. The best pieces of Persepolis are sadly kept
         | outside the country, in places such as the Louvre [0]. Iran
         | itself does such a poor job at taking care of it's truly
         | breathtaking historical and touristic sites. A few years ago I
         | also got the chance to visit Tepe Sialk [1], which had
         | settlements dating back 6000 BC. Again, barely a single person
         | around. Striked a conversation with the old man at the gift
         | shop, and it turns out he was one of the archeologists that had
         | spent decades exploring the site alongside famous French
         | archeologists. Many of the pieces again ending up at the
         | Louvre.
         | 
         | [0] https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/12/arts/persian-
         | collections-...
         | 
         | [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tepe_Sialk
        
           | andydd wrote:
           | It's sad how much has been stolen and kept in western
           | museums. Just look at what's in the British Museum in
           | London...
        
             | xyzzy4 wrote:
             | Well isn't it better to safeguard things in the British
             | Museum than let them get lost forever?
        
               | satao wrote:
               | No, it's not. Classic example of imperialistic people...
               | 
               | Leave them there, take care of them there. Stop thinking
               | everything from poor nations is up for grabs.
        
               | [deleted]
        
               | xyzzy4 wrote:
        
               | gunfighthacksaw wrote:
               | > take care of them there
               | 
               | Which clearly isn't happening, so IMO it makes sense to
               | store them in a stable society with enforced property
               | rights.
               | 
               | Doesn't have to be UK or France.
        
               | benbreen wrote:
               | Persepolis wasn't in great condition when I went but it
               | also wasn't a shambles. There's a gift shop, guards, and
               | a reconstruction of part of the palace, and a lot of
               | tourists. Also a small set of offices for archaeologists.
               | I'm a professional historian so I was a little bummed by
               | the lack of adequate public-facing educational markers
               | and texts, but it certainly can't be compared to
               | something like the Buddhas of Bamiyan as an excuse for
               | removing items to European museums.
        
               | bin_bash wrote:
               | Yep. Better stolen than destroyed if you ask me.
               | 
               | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhas_of_Bamiyan
        
               | bobdupneu wrote:
               | It was in stable condition until it was set on fire by a
               | westerner and until part of the remains were stolen by
               | other westerners. Plus the country would be a democracy
               | today without western 1953 coup.
        
               | eternalban wrote:
               | Xerxes shouldn't have burned Athens. His father, Darius,
               | in fact had advised him to follow the protocol set by
               | himself and Cyrus.
               | 
               | Dr. Mossadeqh was not running a "democracy". Post WWII
               | Iran's political space was far more complex than the
               | caricature presented since the fall of the Shah, and sans
               | British instigated support for counter-coup to remove
               | Mossadegh with help from USA, a quite significant chunk
               | of Iranian military and society, including the Clergy
               | (who were already using terror in Iran, btw), agreed with
               | the American analysis that Mossadegh would merely precede
               | a Soviet controlled Tudeh takeover of Iran.
        
               | fit2rule wrote:
        
       | UberFly wrote:
       | Oh my. I just recently went down the Persepolis / Alexander the
       | Great rabbit hole. This is the side of the internet that makes it
       | the marvel that it is.
        
       | truly wrote:
       | Does anyone know what technology is used underneath? It is
       | obviously compiled to webgl, but what are they using for
       | development? Unity? Some other engine?
        
         | paines wrote:
         | Looks like some some custom 3d CAD software they used to
         | produce 3d models:
         | 
         | http://www.persepolis3d.com/service.htm
        
       | gigel82 wrote:
       | My finger hurts
        
       | san_amiro wrote:
       | very cool! does anyone remember Microsoft Encarta? they had
       | something similar where you can walk in Persepolis and interact
       | with it.
        
       | gherkinnn wrote:
       | In Our Time has an episode on Persepolis [0]. Great episode of a
       | great podcast.
       | 
       | 0 - https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0b4z075
        
       | ackbar03 wrote:
       | There are a few videos on youtube of Iran in the old days and it
       | seemed like quite a beautiful place
        
       | kzrdude wrote:
       | Brilliant to walk through. I'd love to see the ruins of it in
       | real life.
       | 
       | I came to think about something I heard just this week: A city
       | without people is not at all like itself, it's just a bunch of
       | buildings.
       | 
       | So while the walk-through is amazing, to really "be there" in
       | this palace, we'd have to see/imagine the people being there as
       | well. Might be a tricky task for a visualization, but I'm sure it
       | can be attempted!
        
       | reacharavindh wrote:
       | When I see historical artefacts like these from Persia, I always
       | wonder about the loss of creativity with modern approach of
       | minimalism and optimisation to cost. Our buildings are boxes,
       | houses white and have minimal squarey furniture, and almost
       | everything in society feels like an exercise in optimisation
       | towards cost and resource efficiency.
       | 
       | Where are our modern equivalent of marvels like Persians from
       | ~500 B.C !
        
       | the_af wrote:
       | Extremely cool. I love this use of technology.
       | 
       | The trilingual inscription of King Xerxes at the main gate
       | reminds me a lot, in tone, to Ramesses II's words in Shelley's
       | famous poem "Ozymandias".
        
       | janoc wrote:
       | Eternal forced scrolling "powerpoint" HTML slide-show? No, thank
       | you. I have stopped after 3 pages. What is the point of doing
       | this?
       | 
       | Designers, who think that this is a good idea to waste people's
       | time like this, shouldn't be allowed anywhere near computers.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | playpause wrote:
         | The UI could have been better, but it worked and it was
         | something I'd never seen before and it made my day. Rich web
         | experiences like this are difficult to pull off at all. I'm
         | glad they made it. People who write empty, sneering comments
         | about other people's hard work shouldn't be allowed anywhere
         | near computers.
        
           | pjmlp wrote:
           | Not for people on mobile phones, none of my Android devices
           | go past the first screen, paging doesn't work at all.
        
             | quietbritishjim wrote:
             | My Android phone was fairly mid range when I bought it, and
             | that was a few years ago (long enough that I don't remember
             | now!) and it works fine for me.
             | 
             | Edit: I should mention that I only tried Chrome
             | 
             | Edit 2: Also tried Firefox on my Android device. It was
             | noticeably slower but still worked.
        
             | mazswojejzony wrote:
             | Works super smoothly on my Pixel 5 4G.
             | 
             | Excellent work in general!
        
             | ElephantsMyAnus wrote:
             | It needs very unreasonable amount of scrolling.
        
         | lecarore wrote:
         | I keep thinking something must be "wrong" with my scrollwheel,
         | as all those experiences are super annoying but keep getting
         | published by some people. I think it's not as bad if you're on
         | a Mac or something. Anyway, I agree, it's just bad ux
        
           | kzrdude wrote:
           | Worked great on Linux/Firefox/Intel graphics with a trackpad
           | for scrolling.
        
         | smusamashah wrote:
         | I think it was good in this case. They wanted to present a
         | guided tour. May be they could have added buttons but this
         | journey was nice overall.
        
           | janoc wrote:
           | Then just record a video.
           | 
           | Presenting an interactive experience and then taking away all
           | control from the user and replacing it with an extremely
           | frustrating navigation mode (hint, not _everyone_ is using a
           | phone /tablet or laptop touchpad - try to scroll that much
           | with a mouse!) is just stupid and completely wasting the
           | potential of the medium.
        
             | playpause wrote:
             | Good lord. Have you ever made anything that explored "the
             | potential of the medium" as much as this? What makes you
             | feel equipped to call its creators "stupid"?
        
               | CamperBob2 wrote:
               | _Have you ever made anything that explored "the potential
               | of the medium" as much as this?_
               | 
               | Yes. Does that matter? This particular work has terrible,
               | user-hostile navigation controls, and needs to support
               | free movement.
               | 
               | We could play Quake 2 in the browser several years ago,
               | so it's not an unreasonable thing to ask for.
        
       | silveira wrote:
       | It does not work on a iPad Pro.
        
       | azangru wrote:
       | I really dislike the "scroll to continue" UI. Buttons would have
       | worked much better!
        
       | umen wrote:
       | amazing , how they do that ? someone knows ?
        
       | ar_imani wrote:
       | I visited Persepolis several times. Saw lots of images and
       | illustrations, but this one is the coolest. Thank you.
        
       | dvh wrote:
       | Scrolling broken on my phone. Stop hijacking the scrolling
       | damnit.
        
         | paines wrote:
         | It's part of the experience man. Scrolling down is used to
         | simulate a movement forward like walking thru the scenery....
        
           | CamperBob2 wrote:
           | Not a great part of the experience, certainly. Needs WASD key
           | support if nothing else. It's almost unusable with a mouse.
           | 
           | If you're going to make it look like a first-person
           | perspective game, it needs to act that way.
        
             | hakre wrote:
             | I wonder when the first crack comes out for WASD + free
             | movement.
        
               | [deleted]
        
       | globalise83 wrote:
       | Just explored it with my 4 year old son. He insisted on a second
       | tour and on clicking all of the interactive exhibits. Amazing
       | design and execution!
        
         | LeftHandPath wrote:
         | What a great experience for a curious child! I was lucky enough
         | to have grown up in the 2000s, when History / Science /
         | Discovery channels still aired proper documentaries instead of
         | reality TV. But I would have killed to have access to
         | presentations like these.
        
           | imiric wrote:
           | In the late 90s before Wikipedia, Encarta used to scratch
           | that itch for me. I would spend hours browsing articles, and
           | some of the multimedia presentations were truly
           | impressive[1].
           | 
           | I think if it were alive today, presentations like this Getty
           | one would be common. As much information as Wikipedia has,
           | it's presented in a very static way, which is a shame.
           | There's huge potential of making the information there
           | interactive, and thus more appealing to younger generations
           | (and everyone, really) who otherwise wouldn't read an article
           | with thousands of words and some pictures and audio.
           | 
           | [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxHM6oGttsA
        
       | arcticbull wrote:
       | Started hitting 5fps around Royal Feasts on my M1 Pro machine and
       | I had to bail out, but otherwise, really spectacular.
        
         | supermatt wrote:
         | weird - its very smooth for me on my non-pro 8GB m1 in
         | safari...
        
           | moron4hire wrote:
           | This is why I ignore performance reports from Apple users.
           | Unless it's something I can replicate on 100% of my test
           | devices, it's not worth the time trying to figure out what
           | weird configuration a some small percentage of a small
           | percentage of users has.
        
             | arcticbull wrote:
             | I've actually never heard that criticism. There's like a
             | total of 8 Apple configurations and most of the time, Apple
             | users tend to be on the latest versions of iOS and macOS. I
             | love getting Apple bug reports specifically because they're
             | usually super easy to reproduce. The "weird configurations"
             | type stuff is in my experience some random sloppy Android
             | device sold for $50 and massacred by its OEM.
        
       | tanbog10 wrote:
       | It was unwatchable for me on a recent lenovo and an Australian
       | internet connection. Sounds cool though.
        
       | tommica wrote:
       | Didn't work on my android, but on my PC this is an amazing
       | experience!
        
       | pjmlp wrote:
       | Doesn't work at all on latest Chrome on Android.
        
       | lecarore wrote:
       | Funny how they went through that much effort to render everything
       | client side, but then restrict the whole thing to a (quite
       | frustrating) one dimensional control with the scroll wheel. In
       | the end, a pre-rendered video would have worked much better for
       | this UX. Many WebGL "experiences" I see fall into this trap, they
       | want full control of what's shown, wasting their technical
       | effort.
        
         | supermatt wrote:
         | I initially thought that and then i realised i could move my
         | mouse and look around. You are still on a rail, but you can
         | free-lock.
        
         | [deleted]
        
           | [deleted]
        
         | larschdk wrote:
         | I would have enjoyed this way more as a game/walking simulator
         | where you can explore this magnificent place at your own pace
         | and discover its secrets.
        
         | dave84 wrote:
         | I was able to look around using my phone, but it was still on
         | rails.
        
           | lecarore wrote:
           | Good point ! I'm on firefox on linux, and after 1 min of
           | loading the thing it barely could run on my machine, so I
           | didn't explore every possibility. If you can look around I
           | guess it could be replaced by a 360deg video but those are
           | really heavy, probably more than the 3D experience itself.
        
       | a1371 wrote:
       | This is an amazing presentation I wish instead of constant
       | scrolling you could move forward by just holding your click/tap
       | on a forward button on the screen. Sounded like a better UI
        
       | macinjosh wrote:
       | This thing sucks. Why would I want to use my scroll wheel to
       | navigate a 3D space? UX/UI designers need to get a clue.
        
       | everyone wrote:
       | This sucks!! Just let me walk around with WASD. The scrolling
       | controls suck ass.
        
       | ad-astra wrote:
       | Cool stuff. Got stuck in the Accessibility Settings on my iPhone
       | 12 Mini, the touch target didn't register for some reason.
        
       | cma wrote:
       | The scrollwheel trend needs to go away. It isn't smooth at all
       | with a wheel on desktop.
        
         | Wowfunhappy wrote:
         | It was quite smooth for me, on a Hackintosh desktop with a
         | gaming mouse.
         | 
         | IMO, in highly experiential websites like this, there's
         | something very tactile about scrolling to move.
        
         | EnderWT wrote:
         | The Down key also works.
        
       | replygirl wrote:
       | soon they'll be on par with the 3d coliseum from encarta 2002
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | hakre wrote:
       | Very well made to navigate the site, just missing a birds-eye
       | perspective or mini-map to show the current location of the
       | camera (and angle?) within the city.
       | 
       | and I very much like the sound effects.
        
         | yardshop wrote:
         | The little diamond icon in the upper right corner takes you an
         | overview map, but it doesn't show you those things.
         | 
         | When you're between scenes with descriptions you can pan around
         | by dragging the mouse. I'm hoping they extend this to allow
         | free walking around.
        
       | dymk wrote:
       | Very cool!
       | 
       | Unfortunately, half the comments will be a shallow dismissal
       | about the scrolling, but that's typical HN.
        
       | garyfirestorm wrote:
       | I have a 12 pro max and the scrolling part is stuttering a lot.
       | Almost unusable 5-10 fps.
        
         | seanw444 wrote:
         | Ran buttery smooth on my OnePlus 9 Pro.
        
       | shaded-enmity wrote:
       | This looks amazing but I'd appreciate an autoplay button or free
       | walk + look, the scrollwheel monorail handcranking makes the
       | exploration rather frustrating.
        
         | colordrops wrote:
         | It's not even working on my phone (Android + chromium), just
         | stuck at 100.
        
           | Tor3 wrote:
           | Likewise (tablet).
           | 
           | Tried it on a PC. It's close to useless, unfortunately.
           | 
           | Too bad, these other efforts elsewhere to create 3D models of
           | ancient cities work fine both on a PC and Android tablets.
        
         | thanatos519 wrote:
         | Right! It's like a museum with mandatory guided tours.
        
         | vitejose wrote:
         | Arrow keys and page-down don't work either :/
         | 
         | There's a set of accessibility options; maybe they could add
         | some alternative navigation methods.
        
           | pragmatick wrote:
           | Arrow keys work for me. But it's still strange because when
           | you keep it pressed often nothing happens for a time and then
           | abruptly you move too quickly.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | tauwauwau wrote:
         | On some sections you can drag the mouse to change point of
         | view.
        
         | molmalo wrote:
         | I agree. What worked for me, was using chrome dev tools, then
         | emulating a tablet so i could drag up/down to 'walk' and
         | sideways to look around.
        
         | manigandham wrote:
         | Agreed. The content is great but UX is terrible so I quit
         | early. Scrolling is _not_ a good way to initiate action and is
         | extremely annoying to deal with.
        
         | darkteflon wrote:
         | It's so bad. What a waste of great material.
        
       | nomercy400 wrote:
       | This reminds me of Encarta. Encyclopedia on a cd-rom, with audio,
       | video and images on many subjects, all clickable.
        
         | rovek wrote:
         | Consdering the state of learning materials for the remainder of
         | my educational (and professional, I'm looking at you compliance
         | courses) life, it really is mindblowing what they achieved with
         | Encarta in the '90s.
        
         | emerged wrote:
         | Is any company still producing that type of encyclopedia
         | experience? Wikipedia has information / links / pictures, but
         | it doesn't have that type of immersion.
        
         | millerm wrote:
         | Encarta was awesome. It felt like it had a wealth of
         | information on a cd-rom. It was quite magical in the early 90s.
         | I miss those days. All of it.
        
           | elliekelly wrote:
           | It was one of my favorite "computer games" as a kid. I used
           | to keep an alphabetical list of the other things I wanted to
           | look up so that I could minimizing having to switch between
           | the all of the discs (3? 4? 5?) it came on.
        
       | de-asis-kevin wrote:
       | I think a video content would also be amazing or a virtual
       | reality. A video game experience even in web would be nice too. I
       | find that the scroll experience was hard to use. But the idea is
       | pretty amazing
        
       | pabbasian wrote:
       | could be fun if it was a bit lighter and let people navigate
       | through with keys
        
       | neycoda wrote:
       | This ran pretty well on a Galaxy S10 in Chrome.
        
       | mrbonner wrote:
       | I played Assassin Creed Origin (ACO) few years ago, the 1st AC
       | game I felt really immersed in. I played the AC1 back in the
       | early 2000s but it didn't click for me. ACO is different: totally
       | open world. You could climb anywhere, even to the top of the
       | pyramid of Giza during its glorious time with the golden top. You
       | can climb to the light-house on top of the library of Alexandria.
       | The sceneries are majestic. I feel like I travel back in time and
       | live in the era.
       | 
       | At the end of the game, you have an option to "explore and
       | learn". In this mode, there would be no fighting and you are
       | given a guided tour through ancient Egypt. This is truly the most
       | fascinating moment in my gaming life. The other one would be
       | wandering aimlessly in Microsoft Encatar exploring mode.
       | 
       | I couldn't wait to experience all this again in a truly HD VR
       | world. Maybe some day!
        
         | matthewfcarlson wrote:
         | I would love a game series set in historical time periods with
         | the same level of detail and openness that the AC series
         | enjoys. But less fighting and more exploring. More information
         | about how people lived.
        
           | brianguertin wrote:
           | Like this? https://www.ubisoft.com/en-us/game/assassins-
           | creed/discovery...
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | wly_cdgr wrote:
       | It's a bit shit innit
        
       | bbu wrote:
       | this makes me realize how old my 2014 macbook pro is. at least it
       | kinda worked in safari.
        
       | stackbutterflow wrote:
       | This is really cool. Seeing these beautiful colors I realize how
       | much how I imagine the ancient world is shaped by museum
       | artifacts and photos in textbooks, which show raw and
       | brown/grey/white stones, rusty tools and weapons. I've grown
       | thinking about pre-medieval times as a landscape of ruins. It
       | would be like if future humans were picturing our current world
       | as nothing but bombed cities.
       | 
       | It's a really cool project. Now I want a VR game where I could
       | simply walk around ancient cities and watch people go about their
       | day.
        
         | holoduke wrote:
         | I am convinced that one day you visit an old ancient site. You
         | put on the AR/VR headset and the real-life ruins change into
         | fresh newly constructed buildings with NPCs from that time. The
         | headset/lenses have a pair of 32k displays with a vof wider
         | than your eyes. Graphics are rendered with 100 trillion rays
         | per frame at 240fps. About 10.000 times faster than current
         | hardware.
        
         | behnamoh wrote:
         | It's cool indeed. But I find it sad that such a tremendous
         | piece of architecture is not listed on the world's 7 ancient
         | wonders while the Temple of Artemis and other Greek structures
         | are on the list. No surprises there, given that the list was
         | created by the Greek historian Herodotus.
        
           | simplicio wrote:
           | Pretty sure the canonical list of Wonders isn't due to
           | Herodotus, as several of the items on it were built after his
           | death.
           | 
           | (apparently Herodotus also had a list of wonders, but it
           | didn't survive. Given his interest in Persia though, I
           | suspect it would've had several Persian monuments on it)
        
         | vanderZwan wrote:
         | > _I 've grown thinking about pre-medieval times as a landscape
         | of ruins._
         | 
         | Jimmy Carr joked about that in QI once, how movies and series
         | set in ancient Rome and Greece also tend to do this.
         | 
         | [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58rbknKBJvc
        
           | marginalia_nu wrote:
           | In aegyptus they'd be sort of right. The Egyptian ruins were
           | as old to them as Roman ruins are to us.
        
           | leeoniya wrote:
           | "This video contains content from Fremantle International,
           | who has blocked it in your country on copyright grounds"
        
             | vanderZwan wrote:
             | Sorry about that. I looked for official clips (it's just
             | before a relatively famous segment) but they don't include
             | the Jimmy Carr joke
        
         | flyinglizard wrote:
         | Assassins Creed gives you that everyday historical vibe very
         | well. Highly recommend.
        
           | UberFly wrote:
           | I couldn't agree more. I'm currently playing AC Odyssey and
           | it's as close as you can get to being there. Lots of artistic
           | license but they definitely did their research.
        
             | phasersout wrote:
             | Can recommend Origins as well, riding past the pyramids has
             | something pretty cool about it...
        
         | junon wrote:
         | Not exactly what you're looking for but if you're just into
         | aesthetic look up Talos Principle. By itself a fantastic game,
         | but they have a VR version as well that is incredible to walk
         | through.
        
         | shadowofneptune wrote:
         | Now imagine for a moment if we painted our modern marble
         | statues and architecture as they did. The ruins mentality is a
         | big part of neoclassicism, to the point where the designer of
         | the Bank of England building made a sketch of how the building
         | would look in a thousand years' time:
         | 
         | https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ed/Ae...
        
           | fnord123 wrote:
           | Crikey the Royal Exchange is a crater.
        
         | stavros wrote:
         | I was thinking the same thing, "I thought these civilizations
         | only built ruins".
        
           | cm2187 wrote:
           | There won't be much left of our civilisation. I was told
           | recently that concrete is acidic and attacks the metal
           | netting in reinforced concrete over the long time. None of
           | our structures will still be up 500 years from now.
        
             | coryrc wrote:
             | That's not quite correct. Concrete is basic and
             | prevents/slows the rusting of metal reinforcement, but not
             | forever and it's made less effective with rising CO2
             | levels.
        
             | jchanimal wrote:
             | But we'll still be using XML.
        
               | [deleted]
        
         | psyklic wrote:
         | Assassins Creed has a standalone series called Discovery Tour.
         | It is extremely similar yet has freemode, way more historical
         | points of interest, and has people walking around.
         | https://www.ubisoft.com/en-us/game/assassins-creed/discovery...
        
           | tommica wrote:
           | Thanks for sharing this, never knew these existed - gonna be
           | great to go through them!
        
         | whermans wrote:
         | When you visit Persepolis, you can rent a VR headset and see
         | certain parts of the site reconstructed in VR. It's really
         | impressive and drives home the scale of what was built.
        
           | benbreen wrote:
           | Interesting! I went five years ago and didn't see it there.
           | It's a great idea though. Did you go more recently or did we
           | just miss it?
           | 
           | The nearby Naqsh-e Rostam (tombs of Darius and Xerxes among
           | other things) was also stunning:
           | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naqsh-e_Rostam
        
             | whermans wrote:
             | I visited Persepolis (and the tombs) in Spring 2019.
        
       | farzher wrote:
       | this is the worst experience ever on a gaming mouse that scrolls
       | 1 tick at a time
        
       | claudiuhl wrote:
       | we need similar projects for greek and roman ones
        
       | dev912 wrote:
       | The scrolling bothered me and I had to stop, but I did enjoy what
       | I saw.
        
       | offminded wrote:
       | Terrible UX but the concept is cool.
        
         | ByThyGrace wrote:
         | It's giving me heavy flicker on Firefox when I "scroll" and the
         | camera moves. Lots of solid black frames.
        
           | kibwen wrote:
           | Same for me, but only on the first page where it's flying
           | into the city, the rest of the pages are flawless.
        
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