[HN Gopher] I need to stop being boring
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       I need to stop being boring
        
       Author : patrickz
       Score  : 259 points
       Date   : 2022-04-06 06:39 UTC (16 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (patzhong.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (patzhong.com)
        
       | thatguyagain wrote:
       | IMO, traveling and "going offline" for a while is the best way to
       | get inspired life. It's a luxury tho.
        
       | karmakaze wrote:
       | The article makes a number of keen observations. I don't like how
       | it gets summed up as "stop being boring", as if 'being boring' is
       | a thing rather than the lack of something.
       | 
       | I went through a period of not having an interest I was
       | passionate about. This normally happens but it was for a longer
       | than usual period. I eventually recognized it and made small
       | efforts to find new interests. The pandemic both forced the
       | situation as well as make space to try out new stuff. One of
       | those long-standing things was to play video games which I
       | enjoyed so much growing up and now can never seem to prioritize.
       | Sure it doesn't necessarily have real-world value, but it's
       | something I could enjoy as a minor pastime as I did Go (board
       | game) when I was on a binge.
       | 
       | The part that seems hard as an older adult is that we have less
       | patience for being bad at something at the start when the going
       | is slow. We have to find a way of enjoying the process rather
       | than the results.
        
       | donatj wrote:
       | > I lost my creativity and the sense of wonder I used to have in
       | childhood. I am no longer curious because I am settled for the
       | world as it is. I accept things the way they are instead of
       | imagining how they could be.
       | 
       | God that strikes close to home.
       | 
       | I have genuinely pondered how 10-15 years ago when I didn't know
       | what I was doing, I had a million project ideas and just went for
       | them with no real plan. Some of them panned out, most of them
       | didn't. Many I still maintain today came out of that raw energy.
       | These days when I do (rarely) come up with a project, I know off
       | the bat how I am going to build it. I've been blinded to
       | possibility by my own experience.
        
         | sillysaurusx wrote:
         | Embrace it. One advantage of being old is that my younger self
         | was completely incapable of planning. Then sing along with
         | https://youtu.be/GibiNy4d4gc while watching all the youngsters
         | make the same mistakes.
        
           | ordiel wrote:
           | This is gold. thanks!
        
         | moreira wrote:
         | > I've been blinded to possibility by my own experience.
         | 
         | I think about that a lot when it comes to design especially.
         | The ideas that come to me are constrained by own experience and
         | knowledge of what's simple or complicated to implement. I will
         | naturally steer clear from anything that is convoluted to
         | implement.
         | 
         | Meanwhile a proper designer will come up with incredible ideas
         | without worrying about "is it hard to code this up", they're
         | not constrained by that at all.
        
           | twelve40 wrote:
           | but we've all been on overdesigned projects that grow
           | convoluted to the point where they are impossible to maintain
           | or improve without a massive rewrite.
        
         | pojzon wrote:
         | This also hits home for me, but in my case - I just became
         | aware I have no influence on most of things around me that do
         | not fit into my perfect "working well" world.
         | 
         | Fix that bug in production that other team struggles with for a
         | year ? Nope, you should be working on something else, they will
         | they care of that (/not).
         | 
         | Try to bring up to speed some team members to have full DevOps
         | ? Nope, ppl not interested in that, prefer to do bare minimum.
         | 
         | Too many things you have no control of. Gets pretty
         | discouraging very fast.
        
       | SubiculumCode wrote:
       | Take walks through the city, always a new path. Seeing what the
       | world IS is the best way to build in you a desire to re-envision
       | it.
        
       | ed-209 wrote:
       | The idea that someone should (or could) avoid this, or conclude
       | that it had something to do with being boring is strange to me.
       | When you have "writer's block", you step away and stop trying to
       | force it. When one creative outlet is exhausted, you find another
       | one and bring your experience with you. To be perpetually
       | fascinated by something that (mostly) does not change is not
       | desirable and might be indicative of brain damage.
        
       | nomdep wrote:
       | " but no one was really using the app. Including myself."
       | 
       | That's the problem! If you are the target user but don't want to
       | use it, the product doesn't work as is, maybe the idea doesn't
       | work at all, or the focus isn't right.
        
       | codingdave wrote:
       | I'm not making the connections in the article - business success
       | isn't about whether or not you are boring. Neither is happiness.
       | They even said they were happy. Just not motivated. But living a
       | simple and happy life is not a bad thing. Being boring is
       | different than being bored. Enjoying boring hobbies is still
       | enjoying your world. I don't need to entertain others to live a
       | fulfilling life.
       | 
       | So if the author has problems they want to fix with their work or
       | life, by all means fix them. But "being boring" is not a problem
       | in and of itself.
        
       | boh wrote:
       | There's something obviously wrong in assuming some blanket
       | "creativity" will satisfy whatever needs you may have, but
       | popular cultural heuristics makes it seem right. Just as
       | "innovation" is the solution for every problem, somehow divorcing
       | yourself from your natural inclinations and increasing your risk
       | is the right way to go. What is it the writer wants exactly? Some
       | unknown nirvana of personal expression where you get to escape
       | "the world as it is" and submerge into a childish "sense of
       | wonder"?
       | 
       | Accepting reality is often expressed as settling into some
       | depressing malaise, while "imagining" something "better" is the
       | more proactive, positive choice by default. I will make a bet
       | that whatever spurt of creative "not boring" thing the writer
       | does next will distract for some time and then they will be right
       | back where they started from.
       | 
       | The world needs more people capable of dealing with "the world as
       | it is" and make the boring choice of taking responsibility for
       | it. It's doing the long, boring, thankless tasks that this
       | requires, instead of flailing around in the shallow depths of
       | narcissistic self-actualization, that grants purpose and meaning
       | to what you do. Don't let culture bully you into it's incoherent
       | projections of success and relevance. Being committed,consistent,
       | focused and responsible is boring. Be boring.
        
       | burntwater wrote:
       | I'm boring. I know I'm boring, and I'm bored as a result of being
       | boring. I suspect a good part of it is bog standard depression.
       | Tied into that is the difficulty of learning new things; I have a
       | lot of things I WANT to learn, but when I get home at the end of
       | the day I just don't have the mental energy.
       | 
       | I recently moved across the country and currently have precisely
       | nothing happening outside of work; no friends, no family, no
       | romantic partners or dates. I got so bored, I finally setup my
       | dusty, unused piano keyboard, installed a piano learning app on
       | my iPad, and started working through the basics.
       | 
       | It's like a fire was lit in my brain. Or an explosion, or
       | something. I haven't felt that energized in ages. I've been
       | practicing every day since, sometimes for upwards of 2 hours
       | straight (my grade school music teachers would be shocked to hear
       | that). I quickly realized the limitations of the first keyboard
       | (a Roland Go:Keys) and went searching for a "real" digital piano.
       | The first time I laid hands on the keyboard I ended up purchasing
       | (a Korg) I felt an immediate sense of calm and happiness.
       | 
       | I have a couple theories for why I've reacted this way, when I've
       | struggled with so many other things I want to learn: - Music uses
       | an entirely different part of the brain from my technical day
       | job. - There is _immediate_ progress. - Likely related, but I
       | took a couple years of lessons in grade school. I 'm likely
       | feeling the reawakening of long dormant brain connections. Which
       | strengthens the above two points.
       | 
       | It has only been a week, honestly only time will tell how long
       | this lasts, but maybe it's jump started I needed to move on to
       | other things I want to learn and be less boring.
        
         | flakiness wrote:
         | Yeah, the physical sensation of playing piano/keyboards is
         | energizing. I guess that's same (or sometimes even more) for
         | other musical instruments. In a sense, it's like physical
         | excursive.
         | 
         | It'd be great if programming gives us similar sensation, but
         | it's purely intellectual, at least to me. I understand it's the
         | point, but still.
        
       | deathgripsss wrote:
       | I'm confused how to sign up for space4, is it closed? There seems
       | to be nowhere to sign up.
        
       | superasn wrote:
       | I don't think you're boring but I do think your brain is feeling
       | cheated for putting in all this work over and over and not
       | getting the dopamine rewards for it afterwards (which in most
       | cases is often praise or money).
       | 
       | I think you need some small wins to keep your motivation going. I
       | read this quote here on hacker news which was very eye opening
       | for me at the time(1). This idealogy of using small wins while
       | you're chasing a big win has helped me a lot when things aren't
       | going your way. I'm a indie hacker too would be happy to tell you
       | some strategies I've developed for creating small wins (though
       | most of them are very specific to my product / industry so I
       | can't say how useful it would be to you)
       | 
       | (1) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5630618
        
         | XorNot wrote:
         | Messing around with OpenID connect for a web service template
         | has proven to be a mistake for me in this regard.
         | 
         | A template has no immediate utility, and OAuth2 and OpenID are
         | nightmare protocols where dreams go to die.
        
           | superasn wrote:
           | Sorry are you replying to somebody else?
        
         | shubb wrote:
         | Thankyou for this comment. It helped me understand why a long
         | running very much not indie project is making me feel quite so
         | fed up. The next step will be to try to use it to fix it.
        
       | pjerem wrote:
       | Kurzgesagt made a video about dissatisfaction :
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPPPFqsECz0
       | 
       | I don't know if it will help the author but that touched me. So I
       | share it.
       | 
       | And I'll add that Kurzgesagt is an amazing YT channel.
        
       | jimt1234 wrote:
       | My two cents:
       | 
       | 1. Turn off social media. Or at least avoid all the fake, self-
       | promoting garbage.
       | 
       | 2. Accept that you're probably not gonna cure cancer or solve
       | cold fusion. Nothing wrong with that.
       | 
       | 3. Get a hobby that has NOTHING to do with computers. I like
       | wood-working - building patio furniture, stuff like that.
       | 
       | 4. Contrary to #3, get a Raspberry Pi. I've worked on many
       | completely useless, yet totally fun, Pi projects.
        
       | brittonrt wrote:
       | After doing programming and being involved in startups for well
       | over a decade, I decided I don't actually like coding nor
       | startups anymore. I still have a company I run with my partners,
       | and I still treat it like my 'job', but there's no passion there.
       | Instead, I've discovered writing novels, music, and other artsy-
       | fartsy stuff as my new passion of the last few years (it had
       | always been a hobby, but I'm taking it much more seriously... not
       | because it'll ever make money, but because I enjoy doing it!)
       | 
       | So my long-winded point is, I don't think there's anything wrong
       | with this. Only you know what your interests are, but don't be
       | afraid to follow them wherever they lead. If you aren't bored,
       | you aren't boring.
        
         | shaftoe444 wrote:
         | Reconnecting with artsy-fartsy stuff I did when I was 16/17 has
         | been fantastic.
        
         | patrickz wrote:
         | "If you aren't bored, you aren't boring." I really love this
         | advice. Thank you.
        
           | asah wrote:
           | People who aren't bored but who are boring. They come to
           | dinner and yammer on about gossip and celebrities and
           | whatnot. Lousy storytellers.
           | 
           | People who are bored but not boring. They work in technical
           | fields where I'm not educated in their domain. They're
           | retired but had very colorful lives in the past. They're
           | wonderful storytellers and joke tellers and even punsters.
           | They know the latest culture, technology, restaurants, shows
           | etc. They post on HN.
           | 
           | Unrelated, Being Boring is an amazing song by the Pet So
           | Boys. https://genius.com/Pet-shop-boys-being-boring-lyrics
        
           | amelius wrote:
           | People who read HN during a dinner for two aren't bored, but
           | they are boring.
        
         | disambiguation wrote:
         | > not because it'll ever make money
         | 
         | So .. what do you do about money? are you in a FIRE situation?
        
       | nabnob wrote:
       | Something that helped me dramatically in this area was picking up
       | a new hobby, purely for fun, with no expectations about getting
       | "good" at it or winning any praise or accolades - for me, this
       | was dance. It's taught me how to be creative and where creative
       | energy actually comes from, and i've been able to take this skill
       | and apply it to other hobbies, like music, where my approach used
       | to be more technical. Extrinsic motivation and having
       | expectations seem to kill creativity.
        
       | brthsim wrote:
        
       | apalmer wrote:
       | Honestly seems the issue is something is preventing you from
       | objectively observing and documenting your issue. This is the
       | first step.
       | 
       | For instance, you have decided the issue is 'being boring' when
       | what you describe is 'being bored'.
       | 
       | Another is you are making the successful roll out of the app the
       | end goal, when there is no indication that 'being boring/bored'
       | has anything to do with success of the app.
       | 
       | As an outsider going by the description of how you provided
       | without taking the solution you provide for granted it seems...
       | 
       | You are bored/dissatisfied with your life, and you are
       | bored/dissatisfied with the project you are working on, but (I
       | think because you are trying to 'focus' and fight distraction)
       | you don't want to admit this as the solution would be to change
       | tack as its basically giving in to your lack of focus
        
       | russellbeattie wrote:
       | If you're bored or feeling boring, an easy solution is do
       | something that can get you killed.
       | 
       | I bought a motorcycle last year and I'm not nearly as boring any
       | more. Surprisingly so, if you consider all I did was buy a
       | vehicle and learn to use it. It seems to be a general litmus
       | test: Find a risky hobby and you're mind will be focused and
       | dialed in to what you're doing and others will respect your
       | effort and skill. Scuba, surfing, flying, poker, etc.
        
       | fleddr wrote:
       | I don't know about the boring part, but I certainly have thoughts
       | on "what went wrong". I'd say pretty much everything. And I don't
       | say that to be mean.
       | 
       | If you're trying to solve people's lack of focus, you first need
       | a solid understanding of what the root cause of that problem is.
       | It could include deep psychological issues that I won't go in to,
       | but root causes that are plain to see and very common are
       | distractions outside one's control (work email, meetings, chat,
       | etc) and distractions due to a lack of self discipline (personal
       | usage of smartphone).
       | 
       | That still is a simplistic picture, but let's use it. Now your
       | app, which is a website, aims to solve this. The first thought
       | here is that an app means even more screen time, but fine.
       | 
       | Your website allows one to set a timer in which the user does a
       | focused task. This doesn't solve the problem. The distractions
       | outside one's control keep coming in nor does this magically fix
       | a lack of self-discipline.
       | 
       | Even if you do believe such a timer helps, because it does
       | something at a subconscious level, how is it any different from
       | using a standard timer app natively available on any device?
       | 
       | The second idea is to play white noise background sounds as it
       | puts one in a focused state. Fine, but why wouldn't I just hit
       | play on one of the hundreds of "focus" playlists found on Spotify
       | or elsewhere?
       | 
       | The third idea, one task at a time, is reasonable. But not
       | valuable on its own, as it still enforces nothing. Plus, people
       | already have task management systems, they don't need one more.
       | 
       | The fourth idea is puzzling, a support network. So I'm finally in
       | a focused state, and then these like-minded people are going to
       | support me: "well done, mate, proud of you". How is that not the
       | opposite of being focused?
       | 
       | Bottom line, you charge money for something that doesn't solve
       | the problem, or is already solved in far more advanced ways, at
       | no charge. For example, both iOS and Android have advanced
       | settings for silent mode, suppressing notifications and time used
       | on "problematic" apps.
       | 
       | Finally, execution is also sub par, as your fellow Indie hackers
       | agreed on.
       | 
       | I truly say with the best intentions that this is a bad idea. And
       | it sucks to work on bad ideas that go nowhere. But you shouldn't
       | feel too bad about that because creating a new idea that
       | monetizes and is sticky is close to impossible, the bar is that
       | high. Most people hardly every install apps and when they do,
       | almost all of them are never opened again.
       | 
       | Do not consider yourself a failure because failure is the norm in
       | such a competitive space.
       | 
       | "I need to pick a fight and stop trying to please everybody."
       | 
       | Yes, fine. But contemplate more about which fight to pick. You're
       | self aware about it, which is good:
       | 
       | "Am I doing the wrong thing again?", I wondered."
       | 
       | If you suck at separating good ideas from bad ones, which is
       | common, you need better and earlier feedback.
        
       | mattjaynes wrote:
       | "Only boring people get bored" was maybe the best advice I ever
       | got.
       | 
       | I was a teenager and was getting a ride home from a friend of the
       | family.
       | 
       | He asked "How's life going"
       | 
       | And I was in the midst of answering "It's bor.."
       | 
       | But he cut me off and said "Don't say 'it's boring'. ONLY BORING
       | PEOPLE GET BORED."
       | 
       | It was like a splash of cold water in my face, and I always
       | remembered that.
       | 
       | Whenever I start feeling bored now, I remind myself of that quote
       | and start mentally exploring ways to shake things up and break
       | out of the rut. If my mind isn't feeling that creative, then I
       | start looking at what others are doing in my situation and often
       | I'll find some thread of their creativity that I can use to get
       | myself started.
       | 
       | The more you fear being labeled as "boring", the more motivated
       | you'll be to avoid those doldrums.
        
       | pmoriarty wrote:
       | If you are boring to yourself, you are boring to others.
       | 
       | Learn to enjoy your own company and how to keep yourself from
       | being bored even when you're alone.
       | 
       | Then find others who enjoy doing the things you enjoy, and you
       | can have fun together.
        
         | swozey wrote:
         | I love my own company but not everyone else does
        
           | pmoriarty wrote:
           | It doesn't have to be everyone.
           | 
           | Find those who are on the same wavelength and who like you
           | for who you are.
        
       | makach wrote:
       | Well, appears you are successful because the web site doesn't
       | load. Also, boring is good. Boring is predictable. Don't forget
       | the Chinese curse; "May you live in interesting times"
       | (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/May_you_live_in_interesting_ti...)
        
       | redleggedfrog wrote:
       | Oh man, no worries, I'm boring too! It's great! I do things like
       | take 20 year old XML exports and build a modern data transfer
       | services around them. Doing these kinds of things I make a lot of
       | money being boring. No pretensions, work 8 to 5, I'm not my work,
       | and I go home to my wife and we have loads of fun cooking,
       | playing boardgames, riding our ebikes, camping, now even having
       | friends over again. Boring rocks!
       | 
       | Maybe the problem is all work and no play?
        
       | persedes wrote:
       | "Mediocrity is like a stain that doesn't wash out" - H Murakami
       | 
       | My favorite anti-inspirational quote I keep coming back to.
        
       | rr808 wrote:
       | I'm afraid most tech people need to get out more. The job is
       | hard, side projects are fun and you need to leetcode in your
       | spare time to get a job. However its very easy to be boring.
       | People benefit from making non-tech friends, play sports, travel,
       | read novels, learn about spirituality, make music, build
       | furniture but I dont see a lot of that happening. I'm a corporate
       | cog and its my biggest regret.
        
         | verisimi wrote:
         | I agree - tech people need to get out more.
         | 
         | I am sorting people into virtuals and physicals nowadays.
         | 
         | All my interest is on the physical side of life.
         | 
         | Physical is where I want to be, and I am sort of.. but still
         | I'm too heavy on the virtual.
        
         | galoisscobi wrote:
         | These excerpts from the The Bed of Procrustes by Nassim Taleb
         | resonated with me and I think it applies here.
         | 
         | "You will be civilized on the day you can spend a long period
         | doing nothing, learning nothing, and improving nothing, without
         | feeling the slightest amount of guilt."
         | 
         | "They are born, then put in a box; they go home to live in a
         | box; they study by ticking boxes; they go to what is called
         | "work" in a box, where they sit in their cubicle box; they
         | drive to the grocery store in a box to buy food in a box; they
         | go to the gym in a box to sit in a box; they talk about
         | thinking "outside the box"; and when they die they are put in a
         | box. All boxes, Euclidian, geometrically smooth boxes."
         | 
         | Make it easy to start, just try doing nothing for a while, it's
         | uncomfortable at first but the reset comes soon enough and is
         | quite rewarding.
         | 
         | The bed of procrustes as a whole is also quite thought
         | provoking and I would recommend checking it out.
        
         | ct0 wrote:
         | For some, being a corporate cog has allowed them to do more.
         | Since the added security of cog life usually provides a cushion
         | especially in the tech sector.
        
         | pddpro wrote:
         | That making friends bit is proving to be a bit difficult for me
         | at the moment.
        
           | mmanfrin wrote:
           | Same. It's shocking how visibly my social circle shrinks as
           | my ability to make new friendships also diminishes. I don't
           | know if it's a part of getting in to my mid-30s (and all my
           | friends now making families, moving away) or the pandemic, or
           | both, but I find myself increasingly with no one to talk to.
        
           | Minor49er wrote:
           | What's getting in your way?
        
             | skulk wrote:
             | As a 20-something year old, trying to make friends with
             | people that you don't know is an incredibly frustrating
             | experience because there's a good chance that the group
             | you're trying to join were friends since childhood. No
             | matter who you meet at this age, it seems that there is
             | always a group they're a part of that you need to get
             | acceptance with before you can call it a "friendship".
             | 
             | This isn't to say it's straight up impossible to make
             | individual friends or join a friend group, but attempting
             | to make friends but being treated in a lukewarm way by
             | their clique goes a LONG way to reinforce avoidant
             | behavior, even without an explicit rejection. Sitting in my
             | room and learning math is far more enjoyable than that, so
             | that's what I'll end up doing.
             | 
             | Once I move away from the place all of my childhood friends
             | are, I have no idea what's going to happen.
        
         | JKCalhoun wrote:
         | Get out and do boring things. Your mind will fill up the dead-
         | space with creative ideas.
         | 
         | Go on walks.
         | 
         | Hike.
         | 
         | Go on long road trips.
        
           | jermaustin1 wrote:
           | walking, hiking, and road tripping are my favorite things to
           | do (walk daily, "hike" (just long walk since I live in flat
           | Houston) weekly, and roadtrip monthly). And the entire time,
           | I sit in silence just THINKING.
           | 
           | Sometimes I record my thoughts out loud. But for the most
           | time, I just use it as a way to keep my mind churning.
           | Sometimes I come up with new side projects, or a design for a
           | new piece of furniture, or just wonder on certain things
           | (friends/family, state of the world, the guy that coughed on
           | me at the restaurant).
        
             | nicbou wrote:
             | Cycling and motorcycling also feel like that, if you'd
             | rather see more landscapes faster.
             | 
             | I consider saddle time "taking my brain to the park" so it
             | runs around for a bit and tires itself out.
        
               | betenoire wrote:
               | I would imagine it's a little more dangerous to space out
               | and get lost in your thoughts though :)
        
               | jdavis703 wrote:
               | If you're getting lost in thoughts unrelated to operating
               | a motorcycle you need to take a break. That's a sign
               | you're about to make a mistake. I think the OP's point is
               | your mind gets in to a flow of watching the road, feeling
               | the bike, observing the landscape, etc.
        
               | betenoire wrote:
               | That was my point. The gp was taking about processing
               | thoughts
        
               | JKCalhoun wrote:
               | It is, but you seek out the less traffic'd roads when on
               | a motorcycle. (I ride too.)
        
             | mediocregopher wrote:
             | > "hike" (just long walk since I live in flat Houston)
             | 
             | I've been calling it "urban hiking" and everyone thinks I'm
             | joking. But why drive all the way to the wilderness to do a
             | hike, when I can just walk out the door?
        
               | jermaustin1 wrote:
               | I love this. I will now call it "urban hiking," as well.
               | It was still more fitting when I lived in NYC to call it
               | hiking since there is at least hills and grass and trees.
        
       | dspillett wrote:
       | _> I lost my creativity and the sense of wonder I used to have in
       | childhood. I am no longer curious because I am settled for the
       | world as it is. I accept things the way they are instead of
       | imagining how they could be._
       | 
       | Or you have become bored of your previous interests because you
       | have spent a lot of time with them. Try something new, it might
       | not work out but in taking a break you may find your interest in
       | older interests to be rekindled after the time away.
       | 
       | I used to be a "try everything" developer / sys-admin / blah /
       | blah. Having made a career out of that over the last couple of
       | decades, these days I don't have the same interest I once did.
       | I'm leaving the big re-architecting projects to others who are
       | far more enthusiastic and sticking to support/tinkering that pays
       | the bills these days, and outside of work I've got other hobbies
       | with most of the time I used to spend learning or playing with
       | new techie stuff instead spent running around the countryside and
       | taking part in HEMA stuff. I am starting to get the urge to get
       | back up to speed on some techie things beyond what I need in
       | order to keep being useful in the day job, though that is
       | happening slowly. In the meantime I'm enjoying this current
       | balance and set of interests, maybe it'll stick around long term.
       | 
       | Of course this may not be a suitable attitude for someone for
       | whom being particularly eager & creative is required for the
       | purposes of continuing to pay the bills, and some people just
       | aren't happy with a _job_ , they must have a _passion_ , or feel
       | that not doing much more than getting by now will overly limit
       | their options later, so YMMV.
        
       | psim1 wrote:
       | I sympathize with the author. At the same time, reading a post
       | like this reminds me how out of touch we in the SV/tech realm
       | are. "Boring" here is quite relative, and folks living more
       | average lives would find this kind of attitude to be crazy.
       | Boring? You're healthy, get out sometimes, have hobbies, have
       | written software, have written more than one-line drivel on the
       | web... this is boring? I would call it an attitude or feeling
       | borne out of tech privilege.
        
       | shisisms wrote:
       | Broadly the core of western psychotherapy, the rediscovery of
       | self; free of psychic oppression/external forces.
       | 
       | Two wonderfully relevant quotes from Adam Philips, that the
       | author may gain from:
       | 
       | > "For the child's curiosity (''this child who can be deranged by
       | hope and anticipation -- by ice cream,'' as Phillips puts it) is
       | the grail for which the adult yearns. When all hope of recovering
       | it, or at least glimpsing it glowing in the distance, vanishes,
       | there is only a terrible emptiness. ''Ecstasy of opportunity''
       | gives way to a corrosive loss of interest in life."
       | 
       | > "As always, Phillips prefers not to be too direct. (...)
       | Phillips' own writings are prime examples of what we can achieve
       | if we put aside, at least for a moment, the overly sensible --
       | and set out to discover what really moves us."
        
       | mattgreenrocks wrote:
       | I am convinced there is a collective post-covid emotional
       | hangover hitting. I think we can't simply pretend to hold it all
       | together while so much of life changes.
       | 
       | Also, author would do well to get out of their head and do
       | something radically different that doesn't involve computers.
        
       | IceDane wrote:
       | While I understand the urge to improve one's life, I really feel
       | like we have in general sort of gone off the rails in our quest
       | for a better life.
       | 
       | What we have instead is now some kind of social-media-fueled,
       | angst-driven obsession about self-optimization. Everyone is
       | constantly obsessed with themselves and their own performance in
       | every aspect of life.
       | 
       | Are you efficient enough? Are you productive enough? Are you
       | eating healthy enough? Are you fun enough? etc
       | 
       | As if this wasn't enough, we can't really decide which way we
       | want to go. Because you can't be _too_ efficient or productive,
       | either, since you should obviously also be relaxing and
       | unstressing enough. And spending enough time with your family.
       | But also writing that blog, creating side projects, and so on.
       | 
       | In the end this just creates an endless cycle of sadness and
       | frustration because you're not a machine. You can't fulfill all
       | the unrealistic goals you've set for yourself because you're not
       | a robot.
       | 
       | I've given up on trying to pursue these unrealistic goals and
       | trying to constantly self-optimize. It doesn't mean I'm just
       | content to wallow in my own filth or that I give up on life. It
       | just means I'm not gonna write a blog post about myself where I
       | call myself boring because I'm not able to magically conjure up a
       | viral side project. It means I'm not gonna compare myself to
       | countless youtubers or instagrammers who paint the prettiest
       | pictures of themselves they can.
        
         | jimt1234 wrote:
         | This! So much this! ^^^
        
       | cardanome wrote:
       | Being creative is not a good thing for business success. It is
       | better to take a well-known thing and put a little bit of your
       | own spin to it or simply to combine two popular things.
       | 
       | If you create anything truly revolutionary it will be an uphill
       | battle. You wont be able to communicate what you product does in
       | just a few words. Worse it will require potential customers to
       | actual make a mental shift. You will have lost their attention
       | before you can even get to the benefits. This is why the first
       | one to develop something new will rarely see success, only those
       | later that copy it when the ground work has already been laid.
        
       | teekert wrote:
       | I'd say, time for something you'd normally label as radical. If
       | you walk the footsteps of a stranger, you'll learn the things you
       | never knew, you never knew.
       | 
       | Just talking to myself here ;)
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | sAbakumoff wrote:
       | >> Most of all, I need to stop being boring.
       | 
       | nope, you don't. You need to just accept the fact that you are
       | boring AF and live with it.
        
       | eurasiantiger wrote:
       | I think your launch failed for the following reasons:
       | 
       | - horrible mobile experience
       | 
       | - people who are looking for a solution that lets them focus are
       | not inclined to read through the wall of text on the site
       | 
       | - the try-before-you-buy features are lost at a glance and focus
       | easily shifts to the $2.98 part
       | 
       | Why not build the site so that it immediately brings up a simple,
       | self-explanatory UI, especially on mobile? Let the users discover
       | the features and the limitations.
       | 
       | If it's not usable that way then iterate until it is. Hide the
       | wall of text into some about page.
       | 
       | You will find your lost creativity by ingesting a very small
       | amount of psilocybin mushrooms.
        
       | last_one_in wrote:
       | Drop stuff that doesn't work. I started programming as a kid. 40
       | years ago. I wrote a game with a friend while we were at school.
       | It made us a tiny amount of money for 3 years work. I dropped out
       | of programming (several times now). I travelled, close to home,
       | and working in return for food and accomadation (with a scheme
       | called WWOOF). I've done farm work, forestry, woodworking,
       | butchery, construction, blacksmithing. At the moment I'm trying
       | to make a living turning wool from friend's sheep into yarn and
       | hats. Honestly. I accidentally came up with a game and put it
       | online last week cos I thought the idea was funny and
       | interesting, like Randall Monroe's "What If?" (which I was
       | listening to on audiobook before I got the idea). Chances are I
       | just blew a hundred pounds on hosting and domains but maybe, just
       | maybe, it'll bring some money in somehow. otherwise I'll just
       | keep on crocheting. Or some other thing. Don't be one thing. Do
       | shit that you love. Last year I tried making and selling homemade
       | excavator toys (here's an early prototype:
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5gQZs8edzs&ab_channel=James...).
       | Fuck about. Just don't sit at a desk trying to build the next big
       | thing cos there are thousands of others doing the same. Find
       | what's unique and special about you, even if it's something
       | small. And run with it. Are you boring? What's the craziest story
       | you can tell about yourself?
        
         | state_less wrote:
         | Yesterday, I went across the Florida Straits overnight and was
         | headed directly for an electrical storm near West Palm. This
         | beauty was shooting bolts into the water and spidering across
         | the sky. We diverted to Ft Lauderdale to avoid going right for
         | it.
         | 
         | When you go to sea, you're all in. I always was, but sometimes
         | I forget and the sea helps me remember.
        
           | last_one_in wrote:
           | That, man, right there. Those are the moments you remember. I
           | had jobs where I sat at a desk for a year and nothing
           | remarkable stands out. Then there are small memories which
           | are just epic. For me it's moments like that which make my
           | life feel complete.
        
         | MrWiffles wrote:
         | First things first: the following is not in any way intended to
         | demean/attack/"throw shade" at you or anyone else in the
         | slightest. Not whatsoever! So please forgive me if it comes
         | across in that way despite my best attempts to the contrary.
         | 
         | That said...
         | 
         | The above, while fantastic for the person who lived that way,
         | "smells" (for lack of a better word) like it comes from someone
         | who hasn't been forced into a rough life. Bouncing around like
         | that is easy when you don't have to worry about whether or not
         | you'll be homeless in the next week because you were illegally
         | fired from your job and the government doesn't care because
         | it's not an easy open-and-shut case where they can automate
         | litigation six years from now (because their caseload is
         | literally that high).
         | 
         | You can't really do that kind of stuff when you have one - or
         | both - parents dying from cancer and they both need full time,
         | in-home care that, being unemployed, you can't afford to
         | provide them. Especially when for whatever reason, they have no
         | retirement savings, pension, 401k, absolutely nothing, and no
         | health insurance either.
         | 
         | So please understand that while I'm honestly happy you've been
         | able to do that, a lot of people just flat aren't for many
         | reasons, the above being mere examples. You might think they're
         | made-up, fictional or convoluted, but they're not: they're my
         | life experience from 2017-2021. I lived those things, and
         | worse, all at the same time.
         | 
         | > A brief note for context: you mentioned "pounds" so I'm
         | assuming you're in the UK, which has a famously fantastic
         | healthcare system. I'm in the US, where ours is...well, we all
         | know what shit smells like, don't we? And herein lies a real
         | life example of how government investment in people - aka
         | "socialism" to some degree - is not a threat to an economy or
         | capital investment, but in fact _enables_ economic growth.
         | /rant
         | 
         | Point is, for some people, that grind is the only thing keeping
         | us alive. There _is_ no safety net. There _is_ no plan b. You
         | either go nose-to-the-grindstone, or you go live under a bridge
         | and eat scraps out out of the dumpster. There 's no in between
         | for some of us.
         | 
         | Again, not in any way intended to "throw shade" at you
         | whatsoever. I'm just raising awareness that for some people,
         | this advice, while technically valid and something I really
         | wish was actionable for everyone, is in many cases just flat
         | out impossible. You try it, you wind up homeless, a pariah, and
         | unable to re-enter the industry because who's going to hire
         | somebody without any relevant work experience in the last 3
         | years? Next!
         | 
         | That said...
         | 
         | > I've done farm work, [...] blacksmithing [...]
         | 
         | I've always wanted to try some kind of blacksmithing! I'M SO
         | JEALOUS!
        
           | last_one_in wrote:
           | Great feedback. Not offended at all. And you write
           | wonderfully, with compassion and passion.
           | 
           | Yes, you're right. Life throws some terrible things but a lot
           | of those things will occur regardless of whether you're at a
           | desk or out on adventures. I have had some hard times.
           | 
           | I'm a recovering alcoholic. I burned out big style at about
           | 29 and quit drinking about a year later. There've been some
           | rough times. I don't have a super rich family but they are
           | supportive. I've relied on friends for couches. I've lived in
           | tents and hammocks in the woods. Never exactly homeless but
           | just lacking a home. The scheme, WWOOF, I worked on meant I
           | could live for very little money.
           | 
           | Your healthcare point is excellent. I've lived in the UK and
           | Canada, both of which have similar healthcare systems. The US
           | system is just unbelievable (literally) to Europeans.
           | 
           | I ran out of money (down to my last 300 quid) and returned to
           | IT about 8 years ago. I started right back at the bottom and
           | worked my way up. I lasted 5 years and burnt out again.
           | 
           | I guess I went too far in the "go crazy and run off live in
           | the woods!!!" direction. I guess my main point (if I had one
           | after rambling this much) is don't let your soul die at a
           | desk.
           | 
           | > I've always wanted to try some kind of blacksmithing! I'M
           | SO JEALOUS!
           | 
           | Do it. If you have a backyard then you can throw together a
           | simple charcoal forge with an air blower. My youtube channel
           | has an ancient video of making tongs. One of the best things
           | to learn, making your own tools. Just remember: "Got it hot
           | and hit it". That's all the advice you need. And PPE. Eye and
           | ear protection. Always.
           | 
           | Otherwise find a local blacksmith and do a weekend. You will
           | not regret it.
        
       | unkulunkulu wrote:
       | I really started on a path to improvement a couple years back,
       | before that I thought that everything else including state of the
       | world was to blame and I was perfect.
       | 
       | But thanks to a dusty place...
       | 
       | I was looking for things to improve and have formulated close to
       | a dosen "shoulds" during this time.
       | 
       | I cannot say that this was really helpful, because, you know, how
       | could I know what I should? My knowledge got me here. The shoulds
       | arise from the mind, but how accurate are they? No way to know
       | for me!
       | 
       | Now I come to conclusion that I "should" only accept myself, and
       | look for meaningful experience and people, everything else will
       | happen. Sometimes I'm boring! Sometimes I'm stupid! Sometimes I'm
       | irresposible!
       | 
       | I feel where you are, friend, you will do this!
        
       | yolo69420 wrote:
       | Attention span and related topics are well studied in psychology,
       | with new research appearing almost weekly - much more than
       | becoming not boring, what would really help is if the author
       | would spend their time on google scholar diving through the
       | existing literature on the topic, then do a thorough examination
       | of the existing state of the art in the market, and see if there
       | is actually any way to meaningfully improve on the state of the
       | art.
       | 
       | In other words, figuring out if a potential product could have
       | actual value.
       | 
       | Instead they seemed to have reversed the process, already
       | concluded that writing this app is a good idea, and relied
       | instead of the nebulous and irrational guidance of purely
       | artistic ideas and asking friends for new perspectives.
       | 
       | The same irrational thought process and overreliance on emotions
       | probably combines with their superficial understanding of pop
       | psychology to lead them to conclude that they fall in the
       | 'boring' category of that (honestly) completely arbitrary
       | dichotomy.
        
       | severak_cz wrote:
       | You are not boring, you are bored.
        
         | apalmer wrote:
         | I think this statement is on point based on the article. Its
         | important to differentiate even if the two things are related,
         | you cant solve a problem until you can state and understand it.
        
         | kome wrote:
         | to be honest, bored people are usually boring.
        
       | m3kw9 wrote:
       | Isn't this wonderful? This is why the competition is tough,
       | assuming you want to make it with building new apps. There is so
       | much obstacles and this is just one of them you've listed(a
       | detrimental mental state). But if you can fix it one by one, that
       | will cut you through the top.
        
       | klik99 wrote:
       | I remember in my early 30s complaining to a friend about how I
       | thought I was becoming boring. He reminded me that I complained
       | of the same thing when I was in my early 20s.
       | 
       | Despite it not /feeling/ good, it's probably a good feeling to
       | have, one that'll push you to new places.
        
       | nonrandomstring wrote:
       | > So what went wrong? My gut feeling is that I am boring.
       | 
       | A lot of pain seems to come from a poor vocabulary about
       | feelings. What is boring? It's a weak and flattened word like the
       | feelings it's used about.
       | 
       | Do you mean avolition, acedia, irascibility, dissatisfaction,
       | insensibility, repression, discouragement, ambivalence, anxiety?
       | The Psychology of the Emotions by Neal Burton is a fair place to
       | continue the introspective journey you've started [1].
       | 
       | > I lost my creativity and the sense of wonder I used to have in
       | childhood. I am no longer curious because I am settled for the
       | world as it is. I accept things the way they are instead of
       | imagining how they could be.
       | 
       | Comfortably Numb. There's a dose of it going around. Don't worry
       | it's an acute condition. All progress depends upon the
       | unreasonable man. You need to stop being reasonable. Take a good
       | look at the world, and notice there's still plenty to be really,
       | healthily _angry_ about, and so much to be joyously _in love_
       | with. Just don 't give in to ambivalence or settle for the
       | illusion of comfort and safety life seems to be showing you. Take
       | a risk on it.
       | 
       | [1] https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/hide-and-
       | seek/201601...
        
         | hoseja wrote:
         | And then you learn about survivorship bias.
        
           | Sinidir wrote:
           | Bingo!
        
         | chii wrote:
         | > All progress depends upon the unreasonable man. You need to
         | stop being reasonable
         | 
         | and yet there's an unreasonable man invading another country
         | right now.
         | 
         | I dont think progress depends on the unreasonable man. It
         | depends on the reasonable man who would put in the sweat and
         | blood, but might be inspired or paid by the unreasonable man.
        
           | rhn_mk1 wrote:
           | That's a mutual dependence then. It's still dependent on the
           | unreasonable man.
           | 
           | I look at this in terms of variance: there are few ways to be
           | reasonable, but many to be unreasonable. Many of the
           | unreasonable ones lead nowhere, but a few lead to progress.
           | That's similar to the concept of antifragility.
        
           | arvinsim wrote:
           | >It depends on the reasonable man who would put in the sweat
           | and blood, but might be inspired or paid by the unreasonable
           | man.
           | 
           | It's just the same thing as parent poster said, just with
           | extra steps.
        
           | shrikant wrote:
           | Ah yes, but no true unreasonable man puts sugar on his
           | porridge.
           | 
           | (Ironically, the reference for this is an article titled "No
           | true Scotsman starts a war" https://web.archive.org/web/20190
           | 105005853/http://www.atimes...)
        
           | willcipriano wrote:
           | Reasonable men just follow orders.
           | 
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superior_orders
        
           | d1sxeyes wrote:
           | There's an important difference between:
           | 
           | > All progress depends upon the unreasonable man
           | 
           | and
           | 
           | > All actions by unreasonable men are progress
           | 
           | If all wibbles are wobbles it is not necessarily true that
           | all wobbles are wibbles.
        
           | nonrandomstring wrote:
           | > an unreasonable man invading another country right now.
           | 
           | I'd be more cautious equating reason with peace.
           | 
           | Wars are as often the conclusion of pure reason. Strategic
           | advantage plus opportunity, plus a little too much game-
           | theory can be the perfect ingredients for belligerence.
        
           | ramblerman wrote:
           | Both things can be true
           | 
           | > progress depends on the unreasonable man
           | 
           | and
           | 
           | > unreasonable men start wars
           | 
           | But honestly it feels like such a useless nitpick. OP is
           | talking about a useful mind-hack to increase your personal
           | productivity and meaning, and you are applying it to how we
           | should assess the morality of global leaders.
        
         | renarl wrote:
         | I had a similar problem with emotions: specifically, limited
         | emotional vocabulary and the inability to distinguish what I'm
         | feeling. To help myself, I partnered with an emotion coach and
         | created an app to expand my emotional vocabulary and come into
         | contact with what I'm feeling.
         | https://apps.apple.com/app/emote/id1609038427
        
         | MrWiffles wrote:
         | For anyone wondering what this person means when he says:
         | 
         | > All progress depends upon the unreasonable man.
         | 
         | Let me share with you one of my all time favorite quotes, from
         | George Bernard Shaw[1]:
         | 
         | >"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the
         | unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to
         | himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable
         | man."
         | 
         | While Shaw himself was a controversial figure even in his own
         | time (roughly a century ago), and would be abhorred by today's
         | standards for many reasons, this particular item, standing
         | alone, remains a particular gem of wisdom.
         | 
         | For a historical example we're all quite familiar with in this
         | industry, think "Steve Jobs". He adapted the world to his
         | vision through innovation and commerce, forcing the creation of
         | entire industries - at least twice over! - as a result. Thanks
         | to him being "unreasonable", the personal computer market
         | emerged which spawned our entire industry. Then with the
         | release of the iPhone, the smartphone market came into
         | existence along with Android and for a time, Windows Phone
         | (RIP).
         | 
         | I strongly disagree with several of Shaw's points of view, but
         | this particular gem has always been a favorite of mine in spite
         | of that. I find it particularly inspiring.
         | 
         | [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Bernard_Shaw
        
           | idleproc wrote:
           | I would like to point out that this quote comes from Shaw's
           | play 'Man and Superman'. Specifically, from an appendix to
           | the play 'Maxims for Revolutionists'[1], written by the
           | character John Tanner.
           | 
           | Have a read through some of the other maxims and make your
           | own mind up as to the author's viewpoint.
           | 
           | [1] https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Man_and_Superman/Maxims_fo
           | r_R...
        
       | shaftoe444 wrote:
       | Archive for others getting a database error:
       | https://web.archive.org/web/20220406064123/https://patzhong....
        
         | napolux wrote:
         | 2022 and we still have to see WordPress Database Errors.
        
           | lloydatkinson wrote:
           | 2022 and developers still use Wordpress for what could be a
           | static blog site
        
             | 65 wrote:
             | And pay for Wordpress sites too! I have a static Next.js
             | site hosted on S3 and I don't pay anything to host it.
        
           | codingdave wrote:
           | 2022 and we have so many options for free/cheap tiers on so
           | many platforms which provide so many ways for people to share
           | content and express themselves to the world. With just one
           | pain point that a spike in traffic can overwhelm your
           | database limits. Seems like wonderful problem for us all to
           | have.
        
             | patrickz wrote:
             | Yes you are totally right. I just make a 2G SWAP, now the
             | site is back, haha. I thought the site was under attack...
             | @@
        
       | antirez wrote:
       | Life is too short, normally. But it is too long to focus on a
       | single thing for a lifetime.
        
       | exodust wrote:
       | Having a negative goal isn't recommended according to something I
       | read somewhere.
       | 
       | You're meant to frame personal objectives in positive terms.
       | Instead of "stop eating junk food", "start eating healthier
       | food". Instead of "stop being lazy", "exercise every day".
       | 
       | Instead of "stop being boring", the objective might be to read
       | more books, or a million other things that result in interesting
       | people.
       | 
       | Also his app is built on the premise that we get distracted
       | easily and can't focus. The success of the app therefore relies
       | on the failure of others. Perhaps a better project is one where
       | the app doesn't start with "you suck, now sign up and you won't
       | suck as much". I'm possibly being unfair. I'm just thinking of
       | ways this dude can make less boring apps.
        
       | andrewstuart wrote:
       | Sounds like burnout and depression at the same time. He's
       | probably right - maybe a change of scene from writing software
       | for a while.
        
       | MrPowers wrote:
       | > I lost my creativity and the sense of wonder I used to have in
       | childhood. I am no longer curious because I am settled for the
       | world as it is. I accept things the way they are instead of
       | imagining how they could be.
       | 
       | The best way to expand your perspective of the world is move to a
       | new country with a different culture, learn a new language, and
       | make local friends.
       | 
       | I recently moved to Brasil and am learning Portuguese. The
       | language barrier is difficult. Learning how to communicate
       | indirectly is hard. Understanding the different social norms
       | requires you to question some of your core beliefs. I don't think
       | you can learn any of the core lessons without learning the
       | language.
       | 
       | Travel will put you out of your comfort zone, but you should also
       | start having a lot of fun... the type of fun you used to have
       | with friends when you were younger. Not the buttoned up type of
       | fun you have at a dinner party with acquaintances.
        
         | JKCalhoun wrote:
         | > Not the buttoned up type of fun you have at a dinner party
         | with acquaintances.
         | 
         | Before I quit FB years ago, I had whole feeds that were just
         | groups of 30-somethings around some restaurant table or another
         | holding wine glasses up for the waiter taking the photo. Like
         | some Antonioni film....
        
       | i5heu wrote:
       | https://web.archive.org/web/*/https://patzhong.com/stop-bein...
        
       | newbamboo wrote:
       | Man needs meaning. There's not an app for that. Stop being boring
       | and building a successful app are probably misplaced priorities.
       | Work on spirituality and family, that's where "meaning" is for
       | most people and so probably for you too.
        
       | swframe2 wrote:
       | I got stuck in a game. My 12 year-old offered to help. Within a
       | few minutes he solved several problems that had blocked me for
       | days.
       | 
       | It reminds me of the intel tik/tok product cycle. Look inside for
       | a while then look outside for a while.
        
       | PragmaticPulp wrote:
       | > I lost my creativity and the sense of wonder I used to have in
       | childhood. I am no longer curious because I am settled for the
       | world as it is. I accept things the way they are instead of
       | imagining how they could be.
       | 
       | I was starting to feel this way before I had kids, but having
       | kids completely changed everything for the more interesting.
       | 
       | It's funny because it's the exact opposite of what I was told
       | would happen: The story goes that you have kids, lose yourself,
       | and become a boring old parent. Instead, I'm never lacking for
       | fun or creative ideas because I can pick up a creative and
       | hilarious child and go do literally anything together and we'll
       | have a good time. I'm meeting more new and interesting people
       | than I have at any point since college simply by doing parent
       | things and meeting other parents. I still have time to work on
       | one specific side project, but I've learned to stop grinding
       | through the side projects that I didn't really enjoy anyway.
       | Becoming a parent is a great forcing function to get out and
       | shake up your priorities.
       | 
       | Obviously I'm not recommending becoming a parent as a solution to
       | this problem. However, I wanted to note that the realities of
       | becoming a parent are literally the opposite of what I was led to
       | believe by peers and social media while growing up. Contrary to
       | everything I was told, it's actually the childless people and
       | couples I know who are entering these periods of "boring" where
       | they struggle for interest or motivation or meaning, while us
       | parents are off having an extremely non-boring and fun time with
       | this new chapter.
        
         | michaelgrafl wrote:
         | I have three little children but I can't say I feel more or
         | less boring since having the first one.
         | 
         | What I can say, however, is that I'm absolutely thrilled when I
         | watch my kids watch Home Alone while they go crazy with scream
         | and laughter at Joe Pesci and Daniel Stern getting physically
         | abused by an eight year old with booby traps that would be
         | lethal in real life.
        
         | gigaflop wrote:
         | I'm on the fence about having kids, but this all is one of the
         | things that makes me consider them. It's going to depend on the
         | partner I end up with, but I feel like I might end up making
         | spending time my kids into one of my 'hobbies'.
         | 
         | I mean, they're right there, you already know them, and get to
         | show them all sorts of new and fascinating things?
        
         | lupire wrote:
         | When you are four years old, you lose your memories of the
         | first years of your life. When you have kids, you live them
         | again.
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | v-erne wrote:
           | Sure and then You forget them again. When I look at my 9 year
           | old I cannot recall at all what she used to be at 4.
        
             | Aeolun wrote:
             | I have enough (well, not really, but that's water under the
             | bridge now) video's of my now 3 year old being 1 year old.
             | They help me remember.
        
         | ChicagoBoy11 wrote:
         | I think folks' mileage vary significantly on this, and partly
         | due to a distinction I'd make between being bored and not
         | having energy.
         | 
         | I used to know a family that was as creative as folks would
         | come (immediate family had renowned authors, world class
         | academics, illustrator, etc.), and it was clear that the
         | children played such a central role in continuing to foster a
         | culture that was very creative and "alive." But, it was also
         | true that both parents had WFH jobs (this was over a decade
         | ago), extremely flexible schedules, and were very well off to
         | do. In that context, having kids can be the forcing function
         | you describe, especially if the parents in question are folks
         | already predisposed to being curious and interesting people.
         | 
         | However, I suspect most adults end up suffering from a lack of
         | energy. The daily toil ends up sapping so much of themselves
         | that the necessary energy expenditure to be more child-like
         | isn't there, and you get your usual couch potatoes, nappers,
         | seemingly disinterested zombies. For someone in that situation,
         | adding kids to the equation ends up becoming just ONE MORE
         | THING to completely drain them every day.
        
           | verisimi wrote:
           | > But, it was also true that both parents had WFH jobs (this
           | was over a decade ago), extremely flexible schedules, and
           | were very well off
           | 
           | Well, exactly. Its easier to be creative if you don't have
           | financial or time constraints.
        
             | long_time_gone wrote:
             | With all of the tools we've built to optimize our time,
             | you'd think we would be more creative.
        
               | rdtwo wrote:
               | The opposite the optimization becomes rigid structure.
               | One thing breaks and the entire pyramid of your life
               | crumbles
        
         | kevmo314 wrote:
         | I have the totally opposite experience. Everyone I know who has
         | kids is bored: they've given up on their side projects and
         | resigned themselves to jobs they constantly complain about but
         | can't leave because they need to support their family.
         | 
         | So I'm not sure having kids really matters here. I think the
         | mindset change is more important. It's easy to forget that the
         | world has so many interesting things to pick up and do
         | literally anything with, much like your child. My friends who
         | have kids don't think that way.
        
           | jokethrowaway wrote:
           | It could be they didn't have enough money to have kids.
           | 
           | Nowadays most families can't afford kids at the same standard
           | of, let's say 40 years ago with the same amount of parents
           | time.
           | 
           | I think it's crucial to be at home for kids and at maximum
           | one working parent working full time
        
           | folkrav wrote:
           | > Everyone I know who has kids is bored: they've given up on
           | their side projects and resigned themselves to jobs they
           | constantly complain about but can't leave because they need
           | to support their family.
           | 
           | Bored and giving up side-projects are two different things. I
           | did give up side-projects after having my son, but it's far
           | from being boring.
           | 
           | As for the job thing... I guess you don't frequent that many
           | people with kids? Or you just happend to know unhappy people?
           | I've changed jobs 2 times (well, 3 if you consider COVID
           | related job loss) since my son was born.
        
             | rdtwo wrote:
             | I'm bored, starting at my phone while my kid snacks or does
             | activities... so yeah
        
             | kevmo314 wrote:
             | Definitely don't appreciate the conclusion that I just know
             | unhappy people. As I mentioned, I don't think having kids
             | has anything to do with it.
        
               | folkrav wrote:
               | I said you just happen to know unhappy people, not that
               | you only know unhappy people.
        
           | devnulll wrote:
           | Parent here, of 3 pre-teen kids. My experience is that having
           | kids has brought a joy of learning and exploration like
           | little before. We constantly visit flight museums, train
           | museums, and do unusual things like joining Facebook 4x4
           | groups and go on weekend adventures. We've done local MTG
           | events and similar. Last weekend we went to the local
           | Japanese Garden (yea, spring!) and the kids dressed up in
           | crazy clothes for some fun pictures.
           | 
           | I can't sit still, so am always looking for new things to do.
           | Having children do this with me bring joy to me, and to them.
        
         | mattgreenrocks wrote:
         | I am convinced everyone needs a certain amount of stress in
         | their lives. Too little and you end up super-existential; too
         | much and you end up feeling burnt out.
         | 
         | It took me a long time to acclimate to having children. I
         | probably had postpartum depression as a dad. Especially early
         | on, kids are a big stressor, and having them should be a
         | deliberate choice.
         | 
         | It's also the most impactful work you will ever do, and once
         | you see that for yourself, it's hard to see your career in
         | exactly the same way.
        
           | abecode wrote:
           | C.f. Addison's disease, caused by a lack of cortisol, the
           | stress hormone, and treating some conditions like back and
           | knee pain with cortisone, the synthetic version of cortisol
        
           | twofornone wrote:
           | No man is a solipsist when he has shit on his shoe.
        
           | 100011_100001 wrote:
           | This is very true. Stressors allow you to grow. One of the
           | weird things is seeing friends that never had kids be exactly
           | the same 10-20 years later, doing the same things, talking
           | about the same stuff. It always shows me how much I have
           | grown and how much they haven't.
           | 
           | I am in my 40s, and it's weird seeing my friends of 20 years
           | remain static. The only ones that have changed are either
           | people with children or a big catastrophe in their lives.
           | 
           | To be precise, I don't think it's the stress, but dealing
           | with taking care of someone other than yourself.
        
             | SketchySeaBeast wrote:
             | Is it growth or simply change? There's an implication with
             | "growth" that somehow you've become greater or better in
             | some way. Is that the case, or are you just more focused on
             | being a parent because that's who you have changed into?
        
               | 100011_100001 wrote:
               | I agree with the other two responses.
               | 
               | Dealing with your own kids you start to understand
               | humanity better. You understand your parents more, one of
               | the funny things that happens, is you catch yourself
               | responding to things the same way your parents did.
               | Sometimes that's good, other times that's bad. This leads
               | to self-evaluation. You have to ask how did I feel when
               | my parents did this? What did I hate about my parents
               | parenting style, what did I like?
               | 
               | If you don't have children, it's purely a theoretical
               | question, the stakes are null. With your own children the
               | stakes are the emotional, physical and intellectual
               | health of your kids, it has to be taken seriously.
               | 
               | On the flip side you realize that we are all just kids in
               | adult bodies. I see my children do things and I see
               | parallels in my own behavior, or in the behavior of
               | others. So not only do you understand your parents
               | better, you understand yourself and humanity better.
               | 
               | Aside from getting a better understanding of human
               | nature, you also have to start making decisions about
               | your own needs vs the needs of others, in this case your
               | children, and your co-parent. If your kid is throwing up
               | at 2am, guess what, you can't just deal with it tomorrow.
               | You start checking the weather to see does my kid need a
               | coat, a rain coat, a t-shirt? As a side effect you start
               | paying more attention externally. Questions like "how is
               | my kid feeling right now?", or "why did they just do
               | that?". Which means your empathy increases, and your
               | emotional intelligence.
               | 
               | All of this presumes the ability to self-reflect. Which
               | is something a large number of people lack, including
               | parents. Basically if you ever see bad parents you will
               | notice the common thread is lack of self-reflection and
               | awareness. It's holding on to your past self which
               | ultimately hurts your children, and your personal growth.
        
               | jokethrowaway wrote:
               | You could argue you are better because you know more.
               | 
               | I'm still a software engineer and into fitness. After
               | having kids I also had some experience with parenting.
               | 
               | By observing kids development you can also understand and
               | experience how people grow into the adults you see
               | everyday and I definitely think I understand psychology
               | more.
               | 
               | Being a parent is also a great journey of self discovery.
               | You'll learn how you react to stress, you'll realise
               | things about your own childhood, you may uncover a series
               | of problems you may have.
               | 
               | As much as I loved to think of myself as someone thinking
               | older than my age, I was definitely less mature before
               | having kids.
        
               | ALittleLight wrote:
               | I lived for a while single and without kids. When I
               | finally got married and became a father my feeling was
               | that it was like I had been playing a video game and
               | stayed far too long in the first level. It's fun there,
               | and easy, but there's a whole lot more out there. It can
               | be harder, scary, relentlessly demanding - but also
               | deeply fulfilling and wonderful. (I'd write more but
               | there's a crying baby I've got to go help)
        
               | notch656a wrote:
               | Weird, I felt the reverse. Staying the straight course
               | married with kids is the first level where it's easy and
               | many others are running the same program, and CPS or
               | divorce loom if you actually seriously alter the routine
               | or take serious dangerous risks. Society pretty much
               | approves of the 'family' path. Being single was like hard
               | mode where you could basically make your life as
               | dangerous or as interesting as you like, and you didn't
               | have to worry about risking the life of your wife or
               | child. When I was a homeless single male, I could have
               | been run over by a car in the street and no one would
               | have given two shits, other than maybe to pickpocket my
               | corpse.
        
               | tolgerias wrote:
               | As a parent of a 2yo myself I think it's a bit of both. I
               | definitely changed a lot, am more focused on being a
               | parent and also feel lees existential and depressed
               | because I have a new and almost full time project which
               | is raising my daughter to the best of my ability. But I
               | also noticed some changes that I can describe as growth.
               | I no longer have trouble getting up early, and I go to
               | bed early as well if I need to do so the next day. This
               | is basic responsibility that I didn't have before. I also
               | help more around the house and take time to fix things
               | that I would've just left and procrastinated on for
               | months before (changing a bulb, improving my office,
               | etc). I've got a promotion as well and am doing better at
               | my job, even though I have less time overall. I think
               | this is because I'm more focused than before, which is
               | unexpected since I work from home. I have also become
               | more motivated to work on personal projects. I've started
               | homebrewing since my daughter was in the womb, got back
               | into chess and even did some gardening. So a lot of
               | positive change in my life. I cannot say if this would
               | have happened regardless of my daughter but I am
               | definitely in a much better place than I was before
        
             | olyjohn wrote:
             | I guess... What I see is people with or without kids who
             | stay the same, and people with or without kids who change.
             | I can't honestly tell that "having kids" is the factor, or
             | maybe some people change while others stay the same. What
             | exactly is wrong with either way?
        
         | pkdpic wrote:
         | I completely agree, having a kid is hard work but its put the
         | universe into alignment for me more than I ever would have
         | expected in terms of healthy priorities at work, balancing my
         | ego-driven motivations out and in the direction and scope of my
         | personal projects.
        
         | gfxgirl wrote:
         | Sounds like you have good kids. Congratulations. I know parents
         | with good kids and I know way more parents with bad kids. The
         | parents with good kids will generally claim they did a better
         | job raising their kids. The parents with bad kids will
         | generally claim the good parents just got lucky. Me, I can't
         | tell. I certainly see most (not all) parents with bad kids
         | doing things that IMO help make their kid bad. Of course there
         | are so many influences on kids on top of the gene lottery so
         | ???
         | 
         | In any case, I've always hoped for your experience.
        
           | Kluny wrote:
           | Can you really describe kids or parents with any kind of
           | meaning using a binary "good" and "bad"? Aren't most people
           | great in situations that suit them and allow them to thrive
           | and use their skills and talents, and bad in situations where
           | they don't have the tools to be successful?
        
         | pavlov wrote:
         | I'm a parent of two children and most of the time I'm extremely
         | bored and struggling for motivation.
         | 
         | My older child is a pre-teen constantly screaming and raging
         | about the tiniest things. It's a tremendous energy drain. But
         | the children are certainly not the reason for my lurking
         | depression: it was there before I had kids, and being a parent
         | hasn't magically transformed my life with meaning. These things
         | are roughly orthogonal in my anecdotal experience.
        
           | k_sze wrote:
           | Same struggle. Except my elder daughter isn't "screaming and
           | raging about the tiniest things" (yet). She's just... a total
           | mess at a few things (self-motivation, self-awareness,
           | responsibility, tact), constantly getting chastized by my
           | wife.
           | 
           | I don't have fun with my kids. I have no more friend in real
           | life (even before the pandemic). I can't even play computer
           | games when I want to because my kids take too darn long to
           | finish their homework and we live in a small home in Hong
           | Kong. Even weekends are basically more studying and extra-
           | curricular classes for my kids (ballet, phonics, mental math,
           | painting). I've lost motivation to do much else. Nowadays I
           | just burrow myself in reading fantasy novels when I have any
           | time for myself, not even because I really enjoy them, but
           | because I lack creativity and motivation to do much else.
        
             | efitz wrote:
             | Why do you keep doing things that don't make you happy?
             | 
             | Why do you feel the need to do so many extra-curricular
             | activities related to child education? Can't you take your
             | kids to the park, show them stuff and talk to them about
             | it? One of the cool things that most adults forget about
             | childhood is that everything is new for kids. Even stuff
             | that kids are used to; they have really only scratched the
             | surface of- they haven't had the time or the life
             | experience to deeply understand things, but they also
             | haven't had the life experience to become jaded or cynical.
             | Spending some time around them doing stuff that is not
             | homework, can be fun, or at least interesting.
             | 
             | Do you want to be unfulfilled?
             | 
             | If you truly cannot find joy in anything, then you are
             | likely suffering from depression, and you should go see a
             | doctor. It won't get better by itself.
        
               | k_sze wrote:
               | > Why do you feel the need to do so many extra-curricular
               | activities related to child education?
               | 
               | Because this is Hong Kong, and if you want to get into a
               | good high school, and then a good university later in
               | life, this is what you do here, unless either A) your kid
               | has really high IQ and would skip years or B) you are
               | rich and don't mind just paying your way through
               | international schools.
               | 
               | My kids are not case A), and I'm not rich enough for B).
               | 
               | Schools here ask you "what credentials do you have (other
               | then regular education)?", "have you won any
               | competition?", etc. I'm not even doing that much,
               | compared to other really competitive families.
        
               | qw3rty01 wrote:
               | Just want to emphasize the last sentence of the parent
               | post, some of what you were describing really sounds like
               | either leading to, or full blown depression, and want to
               | mirror the recommendation to get professional help even
               | if it feels like it would be a waste of time or bother
               | people around you
        
               | cultofmetatron wrote:
               | sounds like a dystopian nightmare. Makes me glad to live
               | in a country where not getting into the best school
               | doesn't automatically doom you to a lifetime of failure.
        
               | jokethrowaway wrote:
               | Good schools are overrated, don't let them ruin your life
        
               | sibeliuss wrote:
               | Exactly, probably better to teach ones kids how to be
               | decent little people and then have faith that they'll
               | figure it out.
        
               | [deleted]
        
               | YeGoblynQueenne wrote:
               | Figure out that unless you've won the genetic lottery you
               | don't need to apply?
               | 
               | >> Because this is Hong Kong, and if you want to get into
               | a good high school, and then a good university later in
               | life, this is what you do here, unless either A) your kid
               | has really high IQ and would skip years or B) you are
               | rich and don't mind just paying your way through
               | international schools.
               | 
               | Sounds like the plot of GATTACA. Maybe people who don't
               | live there should not hand out advice too easily?
        
               | ideamotor wrote:
               | Yep. I cannot advise. In Texas education is not
               | considered enough. But this sounds ridiculously too far
               | the other way. The book "The Myth of Merit" comes to
               | mind.
        
               | rackjack wrote:
               | Easy to say this when you don't have 1 billion people
               | also gunning for the opportunities you want (maybe less
               | since they're in Hong Kong and not the mainland)
        
               | jcpst wrote:
               | The last paragraph hits home. Going to a therapist has
               | done wonders for me.
        
             | jcpst wrote:
             | I'll try not to do the quote/respond thing too much, but a
             | few things about this post concern me.
             | 
             | > I don't have fun with my kids.
             | 
             | I think that's a serious problem. Personally, I would
             | prioritize that over all the studying and activities. They
             | are kids. Fun is their job.
             | 
             | > I can't even play computer games when I want to because
             | my kids take too darn long to finish their homework
             | 
             | Let them do their homework on their own, and you can play
             | some games. It's not your homework, let them do it.
             | 
             | Or just play games instead of the reading you don't enjoy.
             | 
             | People, they'll be fine without all the activities. Go out
             | and have some fun together.
        
           | PragmaticPulp wrote:
           | > But the children are certainly not the reason for my
           | lurking depression: it was there before I had kids, and being
           | a parent hasn't magically transformed my life with meaning.
           | 
           | Sorry to hear about your struggles. I do fully agree that
           | having kids won't alleviate things like major depression and
           | hope I didn't give that impression.
        
           | VHRanger wrote:
           | Have you checked for ADHD in your pre-teen that has impulse
           | control issues?
           | 
           | It can be eye opening if the behavior has a neurological
           | component, and it's always better to intervene early in these
           | cases
        
             | lyaa wrote:
             | I was just about to comment about this because his
             | description is textbook ADHD in girls.
        
           | Melting_Harps wrote:
           | > I'm a parent of two children and most of the time I'm
           | extremely bored and struggling for motivation.
           | 
           | >>My older child is a pre-teen constantly screaming and
           | raging about the tiniest things. It's a tremendous energy
           | drain. But the children are certainly not the reason for my
           | lurking depression: it was there before I had kids, and being
           | a parent hasn't magically transformed my life with meaning.
           | These things are roughly orthogonal in my anecdotal
           | experience.
           | 
           | I think this anecdote needs to become more mainstream form of
           | advice, people are so quick to suggest having kids as a cure-
           | all for people's depression or other mental health issues
           | like it's just going to make everything else disappear.
           | 
           | Personally speaking I'm sorry to hear this, but this is also
           | why I have put-off having kids--although its mainly for
           | environmental issues, I can't see how people can in good-
           | faith bring children into a World in which they will inherit
           | such catastrophic climate change and a World where it's still
           | possible that aging kleptocrats can shell and occupy a
           | nuclear power plant, one of which was the location of the
           | most dangerous environmental disasters of the 20th century
           | and most people shrug it off and care more about Will Smith
           | slapping Chris Rock!
           | 
           | Still, I don't know what the source of your depression is,
           | and this is kind of harsh, but you are a cautionary tale for
           | people like me: I have bouts of crippling weltschmertz after
           | a life of being an environmentalist activist with a
           | background in tech as a founder that merged the two together.
           | As you can imagine it's certainly not as lucrative as
           | destroying the World, and that is the saddest thing.
           | 
           | After 20 years at least I can go down knowing that while most
           | of my existence have been a mix between Pyrrhic victories and
           | burnout that I did more than I ever thought I would given the
           | World I was forced to inherit.
           | 
           | My angst, rage and anger was channeled into something
           | positive, and it helps but it's a corrosive and toxic form of
           | fuel that corrodes you from within; hopefully you will in
           | time be able to use the same energy draining you to do
           | something that helps alleviate your situation.
           | 
           | The only time I don't feel the Weltschertz is when I'm
           | building, the problem is that I can't anymore after
           | destroying my body after 20 years of living this way and I'm
           | having to heal all of these injuries: physical as well as
           | mental.
        
         | silicon2401 wrote:
         | It's funny because the exact opposite is true for me, and is
         | the reason I won't be having kids. I recovered my creativity
         | and wonder for life through just living life how I want to,
         | rather than based on what I thought was normal or typical. Part
         | of that was rejecting the societal expectation of having kids.
         | Now I have a blast pursuing my interests and looking forward to
         | living the rest of my life this way, without having to make
         | compromises in time or resources for children.
        
           | TaupeRanger wrote:
           | You can do all of those things with children, and then you
           | won't be a burden on society when you're older, having no one
           | left to care about you except the nursing home staff, and as
           | a bonus you'll get to help continue the human race, which is
           | always good.
        
             | Xenixo wrote:
        
             | rob74 wrote:
             | My attitude to "being a burden on society" is: "I paid
             | taxes all my working life, so if I get some of that money
             | back, all the better!". Of course, not having to go to a
             | nursing home is the even better alternative, but
             | unfortunately nobody can rule that out.
        
               | TaupeRanger wrote:
               | I think a person deserves to get elderly care when
               | needed...I was moreso talking about the fact that no one
               | in the world will literally care about the childless
               | person, because no one younger will be in their life. I
               | think people who decide not to have kids often privilege
               | their well being in their 30s-50s without thinking about
               | how poor and lonely the last 30 years of their lives
               | might be. It's just another angle to consider in this
               | complex decision.
        
               | yoyohello13 wrote:
               | > no one in the world will literally care about the
               | childless person.
               | 
               | This is entirely dependent on the person. I think you're
               | partially right that nobody will care about you (as much)
               | as your kids (potentially) will.
               | 
               | If you spend your life focusing on yourself, then yeah,
               | nobody will probably care about you. If you spend your
               | life devoted to serving others and making an impact in
               | your community then plenty of people will care about you
               | when you're old. I've known many older people who have
               | done great things for the community and the community
               | gathers together to help them in return.
               | 
               | You affect other people caring about you through your
               | actions.
        
             | silicon2401 wrote:
             | > you won't be a burden on society when you're older,
             | having no one left to care about you except the nursing
             | home staff,
             | 
             | thanks for your concern, but I'm not concerned :)
             | 
             | > help continue the human race, which is always good.
             | 
             | I disagree, which is part of why I'm not having kids!
        
               | TaupeRanger wrote:
               | Of course you aren't concerned NOW...in 30 or 40 years
               | you certainly will be. But then, you appear to be a
               | nihilistic antinatalist, so there are clearly other
               | issues at play here.
        
             | unsupp0rted wrote:
             | Isn't it unethical to have children so as to use them as a
             | safety net later in life, after having conditioned them
             | from birth to attach to you and care for you?
        
               | Fricken wrote:
               | No, that's how it has been through all history.
        
               | unsupp0rted wrote:
               | Historical and ethical are two separate things.
        
               | willcipriano wrote:
               | It's impossible to divorce the two, what we consider
               | ethical is what we have done historically for the most
               | part.
        
             | witx wrote:
             | Because having kids with the mindset of: "I'll be a burden
             | to them instead of the nursing home staff / society" is a
             | great reason to have kids ...
        
               | TaupeRanger wrote:
               | No, it's not and I never said it was. It is simply a fact
               | about not having children.
        
               | witx wrote:
               | Yes you did:
               | 
               | > You can do all of those things with children, and then
               | you won't be a burden on society (...)
        
               | rob74 wrote:
               | Plus, beside the moral conundrum of not wanting to be a
               | burden for your children, there's always the possibility
               | that your children will simply not accept the burden and
               | send you to a nursing home anyway...
        
         | efsavage wrote:
         | +1, being a parent hasn't made me (more) boring. Sure, I went
         | to work for a large company instead of startups so I have a
         | better/regular paycheck, and I may not play as many games or
         | drink as many beers with friends or hack on as many side
         | projects, but kids are really good at forcing you to prioritize
         | the things in your life that are actually important and
         | meaningful. So I still do all those things, just less so, but
         | more mindfully.
         | 
         | Also, now that my kid is getting older and is starting to have
         | actual interests (e.g. he's really into smart home stuff), I'm
         | able to enjoy and participate in those things more.
        
         | rlawson wrote:
         | Your reply made my day. I have two grown children and now an
         | adopted 4 yr old girl. I realize as I get older (52) what a
         | precious gift they are and make time to experience the world
         | through their eyes (esp the 4 yr old who is a hoot). It's hard
         | cause typically when you have kids in your 20/30s you are
         | building a career and everything is a challenge with lots of
         | stress. So as one old guy to younger parents I'd say 1. Don't
         | beat yourself up, life is hard. 2. Go play with your kids and
         | be a kid again.
        
         | JKCalhoun wrote:
         | Same. Children become vessels for my vicariousness. Everything
         | is still new to them, and I get to see the world with new eyes
         | again through them.
        
           | gigaflop wrote:
           | I feel like if I ever end up curious about a hobby or
           | activity, that I could introduce it first to my hypothetical
           | kids.
           | 
           | I get to keep the kids busy, see if they have fun with
           | something, and judge if it's something I'd personally enjoy.
           | If we both end up liking it, then great! Something more to
           | share with them.
        
         | dominotw wrote:
         | i think your experience is not a common one. Lots of things
         | have to click in place for that to happen. A satisfying job,
         | supportive spouse and a solid relationship with stakeholders
         | like the in-laws ect.
         | 
         | Most parents are just beat down managing two jobs, taking kids
         | to all the classes, doing chores in the house, worrying about
         | career ect.
        
           | [deleted]
        
         | levesque wrote:
         | Tell that to my very burnt out parent friends! YMMV
        
           | NateEag wrote:
           | "Burnt-out" != "boring".
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | quirino wrote:
           | The point of parent comment is that the consequences of
           | having kids are not what they seem from the outside. Maybe
           | your parent friends' experiences are vastly different from
           | how you perceive them (or how they express them).
        
           | 100011_100001 wrote:
           | I have four children. I'm not going to claim that sometimes
           | kids are not frustrating. However every time I see parents
           | being burnt out I see one of two scenarios.
           | 
           | Scenario 1: The over-achiever parent
           | 
           | I see this frequently, a parent that wants to be a super
           | parent. This manifests in a bunch of different ways, but
           | usually it's enrolling their kids to 15 different activities
           | essentially running all over the place being glorified taxis
           | for their kids.
           | 
           | Then their kids don't know how to function if there is
           | nothing to do.
           | 
           | Scenario 2: The I'm missing our parent
           | 
           | Parents that either had kids too early, or not by choice.
           | They feel like they missed out, so they lament about all the
           | fun they didn't have. This is a weird form of resistance to
           | reality. What usually happens is that they will get a
           | divorce, to somehow escape their children. I am 40, so I see
           | it with people my age, they divorce, see their kids 2-4 times
           | a week and do crazy stuff to somehow recapture their youth.
           | 
           | In my opinion it's about keeping a good balance. If you never
           | make time for yourself that's a mistake. If you put the bar
           | too high as a parent you are bound to miss. The simplest
           | approach is to carve out some time to yourself, balancing
           | things out with your significant other. Enrolling your kids
           | in 1-2 activities out of school and recognizing that not
           | every single minute of a day needs to be hyper-optimized.
        
             | gfxgirl wrote:
             | It can help to have family close. Growing up my parents
             | often gave us to our grandparents for the weekend (one a
             | month?). Both grandparents lived within 1hr. So, my parent
             | were able to take some weekends for themselves. Also
             | babysitters for a night out and they both had siblings with
             | kids they could leave us with.
             | 
             | I know plenty of people who don't have this kind of support
             | group and/or are unwilling to use sitters in any form.
        
               | lfowles wrote:
               | Definitely. I'm incredibly burnt out after being a stay
               | at home dad for the past year, with the pandemic cautions
               | a lot of support structures disappeared or became
               | unreliable (older family watching the baby, finding a
               | reliable babysitter or daycare, etc). I essentially
               | forgot about everything extraneous in my life so I
               | wouldn't be frustrated that I didn't have time or energy
               | to do it anymore. Without a doubt, I'm more boring than I
               | used to be.
               | 
               | Part of this is just having a kid under 5 apparently, but
               | I can't imagine being able to survive with more than one,
               | much less retain a creative pursuit.
        
               | 100011_100001 wrote:
               | The pandemic was brutal for parents. All four of my kids
               | where doing remote learning. My significant other stays
               | at home so she took care of that end of things. If I was
               | a single parent it would have been impossible to maintain
               | without outside assistance.
               | 
               | ...and since I have a bunch of kids. It gets easier.
               | People talk about terrible 2s, but I feel that 3 and 4
               | are much harder. They are old enough to know what they
               | want, but not old enough to get it. They can communicate
               | but not 100% or with appropriate level of specificity.
               | They also have the amazing ability to know how to push
               | buttons, part of carving an identity for themselves.
               | 
               | Each year though it gets easier. It's true for all four
               | of mine, and they do have different speeds, they mature
               | at different rates, but overall the trend is always less
               | dependency, which as a single parent you need.
               | 
               | I totally feel your pain though. So I hope you are doing
               | OK.
               | 
               | As an extra tip, totally unsolicited of course. Start
               | doing chores, boring tasks with your kid. Even if they
               | are little. It does a few good things.
               | 
               | 1. You have to do the chores anyway, might as well do
               | them when you can't relax (since the kid is going to
               | ask/need things). This way when they go to sleep, you
               | don't have a bunch of things to do, you can fully relax.
               | 
               | 2. You are teaching them life skills. They learn by
               | watching and doing. This will also allow you to bond over
               | simple life stuff
               | 
               | 3. As they get older, they can have their own chores and
               | lighten your load and if nothing else appreciate what you
               | do for them a tiny bit more
               | 
               | You said your kid is under 5, so I'll give you some
               | examples.
               | 
               | Age 2: pickup toys (I pretend that the toy bin/bucket is
               | a monster that's hungry for toys). Press buttons (for
               | example to start the dishwasher). Throw things in the
               | garbage (hungry garbage can)
               | 
               | Age 3: they can start wiping things, taking their place
               | to the kitchen counter, take items from one room to
               | another. Dusting
               | 
               | Age 4: can start help you cook safely, things like
               | dumping a teaspoon of salt in the food, stirring
               | (obviously no boiling stuff), mopping (rather badly, but
               | they have a blast), sweeping (make sure you duck :),
               | putting dirty laundry away, folding kitchen towels
               | 
               | Age 5: I let them start cutting simple things like
               | bananas, start making breakfast (cereal, toast then
               | scrambled eggs). Pickup their room with some pointers.
               | Assist in cleaning the bathroom and kitchen counters.
               | 
               | Hope it helped.
        
           | PragmaticPulp wrote:
           | I said it was interesting, not-boring, and introducing me to
           | more new people than I've met since college.
           | 
           | I didn't say it was always easy, but that's fine by me
           | because it's not actually soul-crushingly difficult (again,
           | another misconception popular among young people without kids
           | that turned out to be wrong).
           | 
           | The older I get, the more I realize that my friends who
           | optimize for minimal effort (no kids, reluctant to leave the
           | house, picky about what they attend) are gradually sliding
           | into very boring and unfulfilled existences.
        
             | Elte wrote:
             | I may be like one of your boring unfulfilled friends,
             | except I have a single hobby that makes me feel a sense of
             | purpose, whereas very few other things in my life ever
             | really have. On a rational level, it seems to me that
             | having kids will add a sense of purpose to my life, given
             | how many people share this perspective. At the same time,
             | thinking about the time and effort I will be forced to take
             | away from the thing that keeps me sane fills me with dread.
             | It's not like there's a way back.
        
               | Volrath89 wrote:
               | What hobby?
        
               | PragmaticPulp wrote:
               | > At the same time, thinking about the time and effort I
               | will be forced to take away from the thing that keeps me
               | sane fills me with dread. It's not like there's a way
               | back.
               | 
               | YMMV and don't let my experience be your only guide
               | 
               | But I had the same exact feeling. After the first year or
               | two (infant stage is tough, no denying it) I'm actually
               | right back to my hobbies just as before.
               | 
               | It takes more planning now to do the weekend hobby events
               | that are out of town, but it's still plenty doable.
               | 
               | I've also realized that the number of years that your
               | kids are young and require a lot of attention is actually
               | fairly small. I plan to live to at least 80 and the most
               | attentive child-raising years are only a small fraction
               | of that.
        
               | gfxgirl wrote:
               | I definitely have at least 3 friends with kids that
               | manage to keep up with their hobbies. 5, 3, and 2 kids
               | respectively. No idea how they do it but they certainly
               | demonstrate it can be done.
        
               | HFguy wrote:
               | What is the hobby?
        
           | willcipriano wrote:
           | What they are really saying is "It was fun (going to the
           | bar/playing video games/whatever) with you when we were
           | young, but I'm not young anymore and have a family to spend
           | time with, I wish you had one too so I could invite you to
           | family oriented activities." but knowing that you won't
           | understand they say they are too busy and tired.
        
             | yoyohello13 wrote:
             | You can invite people without kids to family oriented
             | activities too. Maybe they would enjoy just hanging out
             | with people.
        
               | willcipriano wrote:
               | It really depends on the friend I suppose, I wasn't in a
               | place to do all that many family friendly things before
               | having kids personally.
        
             | deberon wrote:
             | I still like to do all those things as a parent! But I AM
             | too busy and tired to do it impromptu.
        
             | jokethrowaway wrote:
             | It can also just be an excuse and they don't want to hang
             | out with you.
             | 
             | The reason I started thinking about having a family is that
             | I was done with partying.
             | 
             | The idea of going out for drinks doesn't sound too
             | appealing, but it's the popular thing to say
        
           | whistlerbrk wrote:
           | Think it depends on the age of the children, right? Do you
           | parents have very young children? Things get better once they
           | are 5-6
        
             | v-erne wrote:
             | Thats true, when both my children passed that bar (younger
             | is just over 5 and older is 9) a lot of things got much
             | better. But do not kid yourself (pun intended) if you are
             | not sociopath You will feel that You need to care for them
             | for the rest of your life and that always will be a
             | blessing and burden at the same time. And the proportion
             | may not be in your favour (my almost 40 years old brother
             | is still living with my parents and havent had job for
             | years).
        
           | jasper_fitussi wrote:
           | Yep, also the introverted ones, with introverted kids.
        
           | osullip wrote:
           | Tell that to people who won't/don't have kids
        
         | hungryforcodes wrote:
         | If there is one category of people who are extremely borinf its
         | parents. I have no kids and the world opens up to me. I can
         | travel where I want, date who I want, read what I like and
         | engage in interesting discussions with people on the street
         | that I've just randomly met.
         | 
         | When I hang out with my parent friends they have one mono topic
         | of conversation: their kids and related subjects.
        
           | m4x wrote:
           | Why can't parents travel, date new people, have ridiculously
           | cool hobbies, read, and talk to random people on the street?
           | 
           | As far as conversation topics go, my friends and I rarely
           | spend more than a few minutes here and there discussing our
           | kids. We all have much more interesting things to talk about
           | and kids don't really come up.
           | 
           | I guess you're extrapolating too much based on your own
           | personal experience.
           | 
           | I won't argue that there are no parents who bore you, but
           | fundamentally that isn't due to being a parent.
        
             | notch656a wrote:
             | Before I had kids I used to travel and voluntarily fight in
             | foreign warzones, go into dangerous ghettos in countries
             | like Paraguay, and go deep into forest for weeks in
             | freezing weather that either a young child can't reliably
             | survive or that the mother would never allow. Any of these
             | things would most definitely get child services called were
             | I to actually share I brought I child in that activity.
             | 
             | Those are the things that brought joy and interest to my
             | life.
             | 
             | Can you explain how I can do those things as a parent?
             | Parenthood is the long stride on low gear. Before I may
             | have been mugged or killed in a barrio or shot by ISIS but
             | it was far more interesting.
             | 
             | I think a lot of parents lie to themselves. You can always
             | a borrow a or foster a kid if you want to do kid
             | activities, but you can't just get rid of your own kid. On
             | that alone your life becomes much less interesting, at
             | least in my case. If the things you find interesting are
             | child friendly, your mileage may vary.
             | 
             | I do try to take the conversation away from children when
             | talking to fellow parents but there's a percentage of which
             | you can't derail because they have little to offer to talk
             | about other than children.
        
             | cultofmetatron wrote:
             | > Why can't parents travel, date new people, have
             | ridiculously cool hobbies, read, and talk to random people
             | on the street?
             | 
             | because all that stuff costs time and money.
             | 
             | realistically, you'd need to make enough money to cover the
             | kid's stuff and saving. if you have anything left after
             | that, only then can you devote anything to travel or
             | hobbies.
             | 
             | I'm currently in the same boat as the guy above. what I
             | make could comfortable support a family but I can instead
             | help my girlfriend pay for college and hop between
             | countries whenever I feel like it while pursuing learning
             | electronics. I wouldn't be able to do these things if I was
             | stuck paying rent on a house and covering food/ activities
             | for a child.
        
       | throwaway787544 wrote:
       | You're probably just tired. You can pick up a new hobby, but that
       | won't make you interested in code again (possibly the opposite).
       | Just take a break and come back to code when you're inspired to
       | do something with it.
        
       | evandale wrote:
       | This blog post seems like a page taken straight out of my
       | journal. Bored with life, knowing I need a change, but not having
       | any motivation to do anything about it. I find it hard to meet
       | new people because I perceive myself as being boring so it's hard
       | to put myself out there.
       | 
       | I went jogging/walking yesterday to start out C25K. I got into
       | cycling last year and I've always loved swimming so I was joking
       | all summer that I could do a triathlon if I learned how to enjoy
       | running.
       | 
       | One thing that I might have discovered yesterday is it seems that
       | if I love my equipment I also enjoy using it. I'm so proud of my
       | bike and love it to death and it makes me so happy to pull it out
       | and ride it around. I've been poking around running shoe stores
       | to find a pair of shoes to run in the last few weeks and I
       | absolutely fell in love with the pair I bought yesterday. I felt
       | so happy putting them on yesterday to run in.
       | 
       | I'm not sure what I can do to fall in love with coding again
       | though. I built a brand new computer last year hoping that would
       | make me want to code but it didn't really bring me the joy my
       | shoes or bike brings me. I worry that I'm over programming but I
       | have no idea what I could replace it with to earn a living.
        
       | ganzuul wrote:
       | Do you remember a long, long time ago seeing something gorgeous,
       | like a colorful mineral gem, or the early morning sun on a
       | verdant canopy, and something deep inside of you wanted to
       | consume it? Perhaps you registered that it was not a source of
       | sustenance for your body and still this strange notion persisted?
       | 
       | This is an important faculty for your happiness and creativity.
       | It does not care at all for your logic and reasoning, and
       | thankfully so because our minds would otherwise quickly dispose
       | of it as error and synesthesia.
       | 
       | Now that you know that the sanity brought by your enormous
       | intellectual achievements don't bring you happiness, perhaps it
       | is time to explore this insanity that has patiently waited for
       | your attention.
       | 
       | Namaskar, seeker
        
       | sercanov wrote:
       | lsd could help
        
       | hellothree23 wrote:
       | I like the idea of Space4. LP is real copy heavy :( and you have
       | "fair-tale" instead of "fairy tale"
        
       | WaxedChewbacca wrote:
       | I'm glad the author is introspecting, but I think this is a bit
       | of a misdiagnosis, or maybe an incomplete prescription. First,
       | being boring to others is nothing to worry about -- let them
       | attend to their own likes and dislikes -- it's not your job to
       | thrill anyone. But the author seems to be using boring to
       | describe being limited by fears of various kinds. Well, that's
       | right, it's not good to be bullied and caged by fear. But it's
       | not enough to just say you should banish fear -- you need the
       | stuff that will banish it. You do that via, for lack of a better
       | term, spiritual cultivation, i.e., you learn to recognize the
       | goodness in yourself and protect and nurture it consistently so
       | that it can grow large and strong. Fear and many other unhelpful
       | states of mind cannot exist in the presence of your goodness, if
       | it's strong enough.
       | 
       | Here's my favorite method of self-cultivation:
       | https://library.dhammasukha.org/uploads/1/2/8/6/12865490/the...
       | 
       | Do you think HN provides more benefit to its users by hiding this
       | comment from everyone except the brave who enable showdead?
        
         | Juliate wrote:
         | Let the brave be brave then. That's 272 pages!
        
           | WJW wrote:
           | 272 pages is not actually a lot for a book.
        
             | Juliate wrote:
             | It highly depends on what is _in_ the book, and how it is
             | laid out.
             | 
             | Suggesting from the get-go to someone in some disarray,
             | that reading an obscure, long book is a path to
             | improvement, this is a bit... making the burden even
             | heavier?
        
               | WaxedChewbacca wrote:
        
         | bigDinosaur wrote:
         | The first two pages took up my whole screen, and for a second I
         | thought I had achieved enlightenment. Alas, ink appears page 3.
        
       | difu_disciple wrote:
       | Cool people do cool things.
        
       | buro9 wrote:
       | > I lost my creativity and the sense of wonder I used to have in
       | childhood. I am no longer curious because I am settled for the
       | world as it is. I accept things the way they are instead of
       | imagining how they could be.
       | 
       | I agree with this, or rather... I think we need to live life full
       | of hope and wonder. That when we do, we deeply experience things,
       | and we get excited by things. Excitement itself is infectious, it
       | brings other people along.
       | 
       | Somewhere in there is an essence of an idea, that to build
       | something that makes someone else excited such that they want to
       | use it, we must be excited by it and full of hope for what it can
       | be and wonder for what it is. To even present things to others,
       | such as a thing we've been working on, we must feel that
       | excitement and express it.
       | 
       | I don't agree with the "I'm boring" sentiment, no-one is boring.
       | But having hope and wonder can fuel excitement and that is a very
       | good way to get others excited too.
        
       | mettamage wrote:
       | > I lost my creativity and the sense of wonder I used to have in
       | childhood. I am no longer curious because I am settled for the
       | world as it is. I accept things the way they are instead of
       | imagining how they could be.
       | 
       | This resonates.
        
       | jkingsbery wrote:
       | The best way for one to stop being boring is to not write a post
       | about how one must stop being boring. The best way to stop being
       | boring is to write a post about all the interesting and exciting
       | things there are that have nothing (or very little) to do with
       | one's self.
        
       | shaftoe444 wrote:
       | I had this same realisation about 6 weeks ago, I had fallen into
       | a routine that was not bad but also never challenging or
       | surprising. Since then I have been trying a bunch of new things
       | to kick myself out of the rut.
       | 
       | A simple idea is to take things you enjoy and do them with other
       | people, for me this meant doing classes at the gym instead of
       | working out at home, booking art classes rather than trying to
       | learn from a book. In some cases this has been amazing (I found
       | an olympic weightlifting class that is the most fun I've had in
       | years), in some cases not so amazing but still glad I tried.
       | 
       | Also I have started meditating (again within a teacher). For me
       | the chief advantage of this is to start noticing your own
       | patterns, and to be more deliberate in what you do. It has
       | helped.
       | 
       | ymmv
        
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