[HN Gopher] A fresh take on why Octavian won the war against Ant...
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A fresh take on why Octavian won the war against Antony and
Cleopatra
Author : diodorus
Score : 41 points
Date : 2022-04-03 04:26 UTC (1 days ago)
(HTM) web link (arstechnica.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (arstechnica.com)
| bluedevil2k wrote:
| Bogud is mentioned in the article as an African King who died and
| is often left out of the story. Another interesting bit of trivia
| - he was King of what the Romans called Mauretania. Ultimately
| his dynasty died out and was replaced by...the husband of the
| daughter of Antony and Cleopatra. That king was replaced by his
| own son, Ptolemy of Mauretania, who is the grandson of Antony and
| Cleopatra. He reigned until he was killed by Claudius in Rome in
| 40.
| Ericson2314 wrote:
| For better or worse, I think Agrippa is the patron saint of HN.
| RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote:
| <> According to Strauss, it was Octavian's reliance on Roman
| General Marcus Vipsanius Agrippa, who successfully waged a naval
| campaign to cut off supply lines to Antony's army, giving
| Octavian the upper hand.
|
| Agrippa is one of the most interesting people in history, and the
| Octavian/Agrippa collaboration has to be one of the most
| successful and fruitful ever.
|
| Agrippa was not just an amazing naval commander, he also was
| great at organizing as well as an architect and builder.
|
| Unlike a lot of other partnerships where jealousy rears its head
| once they have achieved success (see various bands for instance),
| there does not seem to be rivalry or jealousy between
| Octavian/Augustus and Agrippa. His entire life, Agrippa was
| Octavian's most trusted adviser and friend (and son-in-law).
| bluedevil2k wrote:
| And when Augustus's daughter cheated on Agrippa, he sided with
| Agrippa and banished his own daughter to a tiny island where
| she couldn't meet with any men without Augustus's prior
| approval (spoiler alert - he approved no one). Augustus's will
| even stipulated that his daughter couldn't be put in his tomb
| upon her death.
| jallen_dot_dev wrote:
| "fratres ante meretrices"
| east2west wrote:
| Augustus' daughter Julia was married to Agrippa and despite
| their age difference the marriage was a happy one, as far as
| history remembers. Agrippa was a man of wide ranging culture
| and abilities and Julia was a vivacious leader of the
| cultured noble Romans. She also understood that messing with
| royal progeny is treason in monarchy, so when she was asked
| why her two sons both looked like Agrippa when she was widely
| suspected of adultery, she answered that she never took on
| passengers unless her cart was full.
|
| Julia was banished later when she was married to Tiberius,
| the second emperor, by Augustus because Julia abandoned all
| pretense and Tiberius was a hard soldier and able
| administrator but lacked the refined tact and cultured grace
| of Agrippa. Tiberius' familial tragedy contributed to his
| isolation and insane persecution in the last years of his
| reign.
| slibhb wrote:
| > Tiberius' familial tragedy contributed to his isolation
| and insane persecution in the last years of his reign.
|
| Specifically Augustus forced Tiberius to divorce his wife,
| whom he loved, and commanded him to marry Julia. Suetonius
| hints that this led to Tiberius' descent into depravity.
| ARandomerDude wrote:
| Seems like an appropriate punishment for adultery, to be
| honest.
| foobarian wrote:
| Random aside, this totally reminds me of the John Dutton/Rip
| partnership in the show Yellowstone.
| boomboomsubban wrote:
| Saying Agrippa gave Octavian the upper hand isn't much of a fresh
| take. And it's rare to see someone openly admit they go "the
| sources are hostile, so I largely ignore them and make educated
| guesses."
| Aidevah wrote:
| >Barry Strauss: So often in history, people are hidden in plain
| sight. When I wrote a book some years ago on the Battle of
| Salamis, I discovered that the Persians had a female admiral
| named Artemisia. I was taken aback. I thought, "Whoa! How many
| female admirals are there running around in the ancient world?
| Why hasn't anybody noticed this?"
|
| It strains credulity that he claims Artemisia is a figure that
| was "hidden in plain sight", considering she was prominently
| featured in Herodotus account of the battle[1], and anyone
| reading about the Battle of Salamis today is either reading
| Herodotus or a paraphrase of Herodotus.
|
| [1] Hdt 7.99, 8.68, 8.69 and 8.87, the last of which gives an
| account of her exploits during the battle:
| http://data.perseus.org/citations/urn:cts:greekLit:tlg0016.t...
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