[HN Gopher] Solar-powered robotic beekeeping
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Solar-powered robotic beekeeping
        
       Author : Jedd
       Score  : 117 points
       Date   : 2022-03-31 09:28 UTC (13 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.beewise.ag)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.beewise.ag)
        
       | progre wrote:
       | Sidetrack: I think the focus on domesticated bees as pollinators
       | is dangerous. If wild polinators can't survive we are fucked even
       | if we have bees.
        
         | HideousKojima wrote:
         | There are solitary bees (leafcutter bees, carpenter bees, etc.)
         | that can still pollinate and who do not suffer from colony
         | collapse.
        
           | frankzander wrote:
           | But from diversity loss (that biodiversity one ;) and
           | pesticides
        
         | mstipetic wrote:
         | We are fucked anyways. In my area we just had no rain for more
         | than a month (where usually there should be 12 rainy days) with
         | basically drought coming - nobody even noticed, they were busy
         | with more important things I guess
        
           | adamdusty wrote:
           | Local weather stories hardly mean we're fucked. It snowed and
           | hailed in Tucson yesterday. Does that mean we're all saved?
        
             | notum wrote:
             | Why yes, yes it does. Thank you sweet baby Jesus! I'm off
             | to grab a candy bar from my bug-out bag.
        
             | msrenee wrote:
             | They are definitely an indication of where we're headed if
             | it's been a trend. Is this the first dry March in a while
             | or the dryest March in a series of gradual dryer ones over
             | the poster's lifetime?
        
             | mstipetic wrote:
             | It's not about the weather, it's about how detached we are
             | from the world
        
               | adamdusty wrote:
               | Ah, okay. I misinterpreted what you were saying.
        
         | tastyfreeze wrote:
         | I came to say something similar. If we stopped spraying
         | everything with herbicide, pesticide, and fungicide we wouldn't
         | have a pollinator problem. We need to stop trying to subdue
         | mother nature to our will and work with her.
        
           | 0des wrote:
           | We need less people. As with livestock, the more of a crop or
           | animal you pack into close proximity the higher the chance
           | one disturbance or sickness wipes out everything which is
           | what makes those chemicals a necessity. Unfortunately you
           | can't feed this many peoples demand without superfarming.
           | 
           | Make less people, decrease demand, and if we aren't able to
           | make less people we should make these people less wasteful
           | and consumptive
        
             | tastyfreeze wrote:
             | > Unfortunately you can't feed this many peoples demand
             | without superfarming.
             | 
             | There is a growing contingent of farmers proving this
             | statement to be false by producing more on the same land
             | with minimal use of fertilizer or biocides.
        
       | agumonkey wrote:
       | Is there a field of low tech, low impact robo-electro-wildlife
       | caretaking ? if that make sense.
       | 
       | Instead of having large flattened areas that can be used with
       | tractors, having more eco friendly natural spaces, with tiny
       | roombas/rovers that can attends, surveil, monitor the state of
       | things 24/7.
        
         | amelius wrote:
         | I think people do it for fun. Why automate the fun work?
        
           | agumonkey wrote:
           | On a smaller scale why not. I attend the forest nearby at
           | times, neighbors do it even more often .. but we can't ensure
           | good care of a whole field set.
           | 
           | Even if there were large social efforts for people to gather
           | and maintain nature, we'd still be at the mercy of pest /
           | insects / microscopic life acting at night.
        
             | amelius wrote:
             | Tech in this field is going very fast. See e.g. [1]. Deep
             | learning can be adapted easily to various tasks.
             | 
             | [1] https://robomechjournal.springeropen.com/articles/10.11
             | 86/s4...
        
               | agumonkey wrote:
               | thanks a lot
               | 
               | ps: I was also thinking about monitoring fungi, microbes
               | etc. (and the usual temp, humidity, acidity)
        
       | DonHopkins wrote:
       | How about enabling the bees to collectively walk their robotic
       | bee hive around on its legs, kind of like how this goldfish
       | controlled robot works -- "Just Keep Swimming":
       | 
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GDgmP1ac_A
       | 
       | Or less bee-enabling and more bee-exploitive:
       | 
       | BeeCopter is TacoCopter for Honey: delivering hive-fresh honey to
       | your picnic or garden breakfast table by flying in live bee hives
       | via drones!
       | 
       | https://tacocopter.com/
       | 
       | >On the East Coast? Try LobsterCopter -- "Taco Of The East!"
       | 
       | https://www.huffpost.com/entry/tacocopter-startup-delivers-t...
       | 
       | >Tacocopter Aims To Deliver Tacos Using Unmanned Drone
       | Helicopters
       | 
       | >(As for the worry that these tacocopters could eliminate
       | delivery jobs: "I don't think that's what tacocopters really
       | stand for," [Star] Simpson said. "But it's certainly the sort of
       | robophobia we've lived with for a long time.")
        
       | boredumb wrote:
       | The price tag is quite steep, but I really do love the idea and
       | hope that more technology and thought is put into beekeeping. For
       | anyone on the fence about raising bees, just do it - it was one
       | of my favorite projects I've had the opportunity to participate
       | in and is one of the most fascinating things to witness up close.
        
       | clutchdude wrote:
       | Beekeeper here -
       | 
       | Video didn't show many of the aspects a beekeeper has to deal
       | with.
       | 
       | "Beehomes use A.I. to identify when a colony could be preparing
       | to swarm, and automatically prevents this event by adjusting
       | conditions. Beekeepers can rest assured that the Beehome has
       | their colonies stay put while they focus on other
       | responsibilities."
       | 
       | doesn't sell it.
       | 
       | Bees are livestock, not programs. They sometimes decide that it's
       | time to move on no matter what you do.
       | 
       | It doesn't show how inspections are done nor how many frames or
       | frametypes are used. It doesn't show how frame rotation is
       | done(necessary every few years) or what happens when you have a
       | dead out.
       | 
       | How would you introduce a new queen or perform splits?
       | 
       | I'm also not sold on their "prevention"
       | 
       | > How does Beehome deal with pests? > > The ones that are visible
       | with the naked eye, like Varroa, are detected by the robot in
       | real-time, and treatment is applied accordingly. Others are
       | identified by the damage they leave, and then treatment is
       | applied accordingly. > Does Beehome use/apply pesticides?
       | 
       | > No; the robot treats for pests using a heating mechanism. The
       | robot heats frames to a point where it harms the pests (Varroa)
       | but does not harm the bees' brood.
       | 
       | I glanced over a paper on hyperthermic and I'd have concerns
       | regarding nurse bee viability after being subjected to that
       | temps, even if brood are not seeing mortality.
       | 
       | Meanwhile, we have extremely effective treatments for varroa that
       | show little impact on brood/bees - See Randy Oliver.
       | 
       | I could go on and on but
       | 
       | tldr; This product handwaves away almost all of the work a
       | beekeeper does without actually showing how it performs those
       | tasks. I'd have extremely low confidence in it until a production
       | length video of each aspect of a beekeepers job is produced and
       | walked through with the Beewise.
        
         | simonebrunozzi wrote:
         | > I'd have extremely low confidence in it until a production
         | length video of each aspect of a beekeepers job is produced and
         | walked through with the Beewise.
         | 
         | I know a bit about bee-keeping (did it with my father for ~15
         | years). I'd agree with you, but perhaps they don't feel ready
         | to openly share too much, for fear of competition. Not a great
         | idea, but this might be the reason why you don't see much in
         | their material.
        
           | clutchdude wrote:
           | From what I'm reading, most of their IP is in the tech side.
           | AI and other stuff.
           | 
           | Showing me how to clean, manage and use their product
           | shouldn't be the secret sauce because they're otherwise
           | relying on a quick market saturation before someone catches
           | up.
        
         | WaitWaitWha wrote:
         | Hi fellow beek.
         | 
         | > Bees are livestock, not programs.
         | 
         | And, having two top-bar hives is not the same as having six
         | apiaries each with hundreds of hives.
        
           | clutchdude wrote:
           | Yep - the hobbyist to sideliner to big time is a wide swath
           | of learning and approaches.
           | 
           | One big thing I see as an issue - how does this handle
           | palletization for moving hives across the country?
        
         | uticus wrote:
         | first i've heard about hyperthermic, although i have
         | anecdotally heard about benefits of increased humidity. any
         | good links for readup on hyperthermic?
        
           | clutchdude wrote:
           | https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s13592-019-00715-7
           | - I haven't read it all the way yet.
           | 
           | The reason why it doesn't see more uses is the difficulty to
           | scale it(a beekeeper can't keep a device tied up for 2 hours
           | when they've got 5,10,50,400 hives to manage.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | franciscop wrote:
       | I have no idea about beekeeping economies, could someone shed a
       | bit of light here please? At $2000 shipping + $400/month it seems
       | expensive, but it claims 24 colonies which seems like a lot, so
       | how much does a colony produce per year? How much should it
       | produce to make it worth this investment?
        
         | vitro wrote:
         | I guess you cannot calculate only a produce of those bees.
         | Trees and flowers pollinated are a significant "side effect"
         | that we neef for our survival.
        
           | franciscop wrote:
           | I assumed this would be a commercial application in the vast
           | majority of cases, where I'm from we don't have a bee problem
           | so it didn't occur to me that this could be setup from a
           | charity just for the wellbeing of the bees.
        
           | conjectures wrote:
           | Moloch cares not for trees and flowers.
        
         | onlyrealcuzzo wrote:
         | 1. Hives rent for $40-$200 per month.
         | 
         | 2. A well maintained hive can easily double in size over a
         | single season ($150).
         | 
         | 3. A hive can easily produce 25 lbs of honey in a single season
         | ($125 wholesale, or $250+ direct).
         | 
         | If it can really manage 24 colonies extremely well, $16 per
         | colony per month is NOTHING.
        
       | ct0 wrote:
       | Im surprised this isnt getting the same level of push back as the
       | flowhive did in bee keeping communities. The flowhive simply
       | makes extracting honey easier, you can literally leave the
       | flowhive on the brood box and pour out honey. Its very nice for
       | someone who doesnt want to pull frames and use an extractor,
       | which is tough work. People would say its not real bee keeping
       | and worried about spreading problems to other colonies.
       | 
       | This "does" everything but I am confident it can't replace a real
       | bee keeper somewhere in the chain. Ive had issues with hives that
       | are unrelated to pests that have slowed down the production of
       | brood, for example a new queen mated but never started laying
       | eggs. Would this device notify the land owner of that? Most
       | likely not.
        
         | 0des wrote:
         | The main criticism I remember of the flowhive was that it
         | increases chances of infection and can destroy the cells of the
         | frames. I have no experience with this hive, that's just the
         | common criticisms I remember from the time.
        
       | headsoup wrote:
       | I think the concern with this is that it seems to treat the hive
       | as a machine and not a variable natural system.
       | 
       | What does it do to bee evolution to take away their instincts and
       | ability to self-regulate their hive ? What impact does that have
       | on how the bees measure the inside and outside environment?
       | 
       | It would be interesting to know what the non-chemical mite
       | treatments are. Most are mechanical, so I can only imagine it
       | applies powdered sugar or removes drone brood or something?
       | 
       | I also hope it leaves a substantial mass of honey in the hive so
       | the bees have sufficient sustenance over winter and into spring
       | so sugar water is not needed.
       | 
       | There's already too much interference without understanding in
       | the bee industry, automating things is only going to eventually
       | reduce knowledge much further, but I can appreciate the goals and
       | effort at least.
        
         | darkwater wrote:
         | > What does it do to bee evolution to take away their instincts
         | and ability to self-regulate their hive ? What impact does that
         | have on how the bees measure the inside and outside
         | environment?
         | 
         | Wouldn't this take at least a few centuries of continued use to
         | actually change something via evolution? Unless all your bees
         | are dead in 2 years, obviously.
        
           | onlyrealcuzzo wrote:
           | Bees only life 2-4x longer than fruit flies, and fruit flies
           | "evolve" resistance to stressors in 8-9 generations (a
           | month).
           | 
           | So I'm not sure why bees couldn't have some minor changes
           | within a year. But I'm also skeptical that's inherently a bad
           | thing.
        
             | i_cannot_hack wrote:
             | A generation of bees is defined by the procreation of
             | colonies / queens, not the life of individual worker bees,
             | since they are eusocial. The queen bee lives for 3-4 years,
             | and establishment of new colonies (swarming) can happen
             | around once a year. I would guess 9 generations of bees
             | would probably be 9 years at a minimum.
        
               | WaitWaitWha wrote:
               | You are absolutely correct, unless the queen is actively
               | managed by the beekeeper. Commercial beekeepers will have
               | a queen for half that time, and then replace her.
        
               | headsoup wrote:
               | A common symptom of today's society, thinking so short
               | term.
               | 
               | Should we consider these systems are only in place for
               | 10-20 years, are assume their use will grow so we
               | certainly want to make sure we're not evolving less
               | robust bees.
        
             | mhmmmmmm wrote:
             | I mean a generation of bees takes atleast a year since only
             | the queen is really reproducing, the worker bees themselves
             | aren't exposed to any evolutionary pressure since they
             | can't reproduce. (I guess they are by proxy, once their
             | queen dies so does their lineage)
        
             | mtsr wrote:
             | Although individual bees don't live very long, all bees in
             | a hive are from eggs laid by a single queen. So genetically
             | a generation would be a hive. IIRC hives swarm (i.e.
             | procreate) roughly once a year.
        
       | kortex wrote:
       | Not a beek, but I'm close friends with some, and might actually
       | take the plunge this year.
       | 
       | This looks like a classic case of "automating the wrong way" and
       | thinking in terms of agents instead of tools (force multipliers).
       | 
       | What beekeepers really benefit from are tools that let them do
       | more work with less effort. Hive lifters are a perfect example
       | [1]. The most popular design has a couple of mechanical flaws
       | that can lead to buckling, and the hand winch is kind of a pain
       | to use with really heavy supers. That's the real kind of
       | innovation the field would benefit from.
       | 
       | Another is logistics. Schlepping around hive boxes, sugar water,
       | tools, supplies, through loose farm mud, is a real hassle.
       | Tractors are expensive and not really maneuverable. A "farm tug"
       | would be crazy useful - something like an electric wheelbarrow
       | (which exists) but a more generic/modular form factor.
       | 
       | 1 - https://beehivelifters.com/product/beehive-lifter-
       | manual-2-w...
        
         | berkes wrote:
         | I am a beek, just hobby, and totally agree here.
         | 
         | It's one of the reasons I went full "topbarhive": no more
         | lifting, dragging wooden boxes around and such. Less checking-
         | up too, so overall much less work.
         | 
         | I'd like to add that bees, at least mine, have a thing against
         | combustion engines. I think it's the vibration/shockwaves
         | combined with the smoke.
         | 
         | So lawnmowers, bushwhackers, farm-tugs, chainsaws and such all
         | need to be battery powered. Which is possible in 2022, but
         | expensive. I've had to learn how to use an old-school scythe to
         | keep my stand a bit nettle/grass free over the summer. Motor-
         | mowing in my bee-suite, while being attacked by angree bees is
         | _not_ fun.
        
         | jpm_sd wrote:
         | I'm an electro-mechanical engineer unfamiliar with small farms.
         | How would you change this type of design to be more modular or
         | adaptable?
         | 
         | https://www.overlandcarts.com/
        
           | casselc wrote:
           | Not who you asked, but as someone interested in small/hobby
           | farm equipment to enable a couple people to do more work,
           | more efficiently: The actual products seem nice and they have
           | a variety of things that would be useful to us. I'd like to
           | be able to buy a common flatbed lifting/dumping platform at
           | about half those prices and be able to separately purchase
           | and easily swap out the various wheelbarrow and
           | garden/utility wagon bases. Ability to upgrade/replace motor
           | and batteries. Ability to use the platform for additional
           | powered implements like spreaders, seed drills, flail mower,
           | auger, etc I'd like to be able to operate it in either a
           | push-in-front (wheelbarrow) or pull-behind (wagon) fashion
           | and for the drive and steering controls to work well in both
           | cases. Stretch goals: a low speed follow-me mode with basic
           | obstacle detection/avoidance. A go-to-programmed-location-
           | and-come-back-wherever-here-is mode, optionally dumping or
           | waiting for interaction at the other end.
        
           | giantg2 wrote:
           | The powered cart design? I'm not sure. I suppose there are
           | some niche jobs that you could target with that. I think most
           | farms set up to use a tractor with a front end loader or
           | bobcat (which takes care of shoveling too), or
           | gator/truck/atv for just hauling. I can see the powered cart
           | being useful in small barns or niche chores, but only
           | marginally (or for disabilities).
           | 
           | In general, I think low cost, low maintenance, and the
           | ability to repair it yourself (lots of COTS parts) are the
           | main benefits.
           | 
           | Interchangeable buckets/attachments would be good. What I
           | mean is that I see a lot of outdoor or primary sector uses in
           | the existing carts. Could be good to have the bucket of the
           | wheelbarrow be interchangeable for the secondary or value-add
           | steps. Many small farms need to vertically integrate to
           | survive. So maybe have it focused on processing, like
           | hauling, warming, and bottling (honey gate) that 100 gallon
           | container this honey device uses. Or maybe for hauling
           | mushroom bags from sterilization, to inoculation, to fruiting
           | rooms.
           | 
           | Also, I assume many of the people using a powered wheelbarrow
           | type device would find a loading aide/mechanism highly
           | beneficial. Stuff like shoveling takes a long time and can be
           | hard on the back.
        
       | criddell wrote:
       | Why honeybees? It seems like of all the bees out there, honeybees
       | get all the attention. In North America, wouldn't it be better to
       | encourage bee keeping of the species that are native to the
       | region?
        
         | jmhobbs wrote:
         | Honey bees are the easiest to manage really. Some other bees
         | are raised for pollination, but honey bees have a long history
         | of management and semi-domestication. We already know how to
         | raise and manage big colonies for migratory pollination.
        
       | giantg2 wrote:
       | It sounds really cool/powerful. Also sounds like it kills the joy
       | of beekeeping.
        
       | sgt wrote:
       | Really cool - but this is not simple, is it? I mean, it is a
       | really complex system if you think about it, down to the software
       | even and cloud services.
        
       | Kerrick wrote:
       | When I was getting into commercial honey production on a small
       | scale for my farm over the last year or so, I looked into Beewise
       | quite closely. Unfortunately, they don't do small scale. From
       | their FAQ:
       | 
       | > We currently cater exclusively to Commercial Beekeepers
       | managing 1,000 beehives and above.
        
       | londons_explore wrote:
       | What impact does humans having beehives have on wild/natural
       | colonies?
       | 
       | When there are only so many flowers to go around, keeping bees
       | might just be a disguised way to destroy natural bees.
        
         | uticus wrote:
         | intrigued by question. i honestly do not know, but can add for
         | context that it is not unheard of in my area (temperate
         | woodland) to have a dozen or more hives cohabiting the same
         | acre. of course the bees are not confined to the acre, but my
         | point is, if competition were a concern, perhaps a counterpoint
         | is how would so many hives in one acre be sustainable?
         | 
         | additionally, many of the colonies are from local swarms.
         | granted, who knows what genetic backgrounds are, but they are
         | "wild" in contemporary terms.
         | 
         | additionally, commercial operations make good money because
         | there _are too many_ flowering things to go around.
         | 
         | would be interested in hearing counterpoints to my
         | counterpoints, genuinely intrigued by question & implications
        
         | berkes wrote:
         | This is only partly true. And context matters a lot too.
         | 
         | For one, pollination causes better seed production. So better
         | pollination, means more flowering plants, so more food for
         | insects next season.
         | 
         | It's studied (I cannot find the paper, it was a German study,
         | that's all I remember) where a very "poor" area (farmland and
         | production-forests reclaimed as diverse nature) did had much
         | more insects, much faster, on the side where honeybees were
         | kept, than on the side where they weren't, due to the honeybees
         | "creating" flowering plants for other insects to eat from too.
         | 
         | But I've also read a study from the Netherlands which is now
         | often used by nature-management to ban honeybee-colonies from
         | nature areas due to them competing against more endangered
         | insects in those areas.
         | 
         | It's nature. It depends.
        
       | jsiepkes wrote:
       | Looks super interesting. I would love to see some reallife
       | feedback. Such are the moving parts prone to jams and stuff like
       | that.
        
         | unfocussed_mike wrote:
         | > Such are the moving parts prone to jams and stuff like that.
         | 
         | They are probably prone to honey rather than jams. /jk
         | 
         | Actually the question I most want answered is about materials
         | and environments -- I know hives can start in all sorts of
         | things, but I am wondering about bee health (physical/social)
         | in the context of metal and plastic.
         | 
         | Also their material preferences; do bees still need to be
         | persuaded/cajoled to settle in an inorganic space when there
         | might be wooden or brick structures in the vicinity?
         | 
         | Are commercial hives already well past this point and using
         | metal and plastics?
        
           | simonebrunozzi wrote:
           | > They are probably prone to honey rather than jams. /jk
           | 
           | Ah, this one was really juicy!
        
           | Jedd wrote:
           | Here in AU, most commercial hive operators are using very
           | basic wooden hives - many aren't even using (metal) mesh
           | bases, which are a common home-scale defence against things
           | like Small Hive Beetle (SHB) because _at scale_ it 's a
           | significant cost, both cap-ex and op-ex.
           | 
           | In 2015, the Flow Hive guys broke all kinds of kickstarter
           | records with their plastic frame / externally-harvestable
           | hive, though we've had plastic frames around for a lot longer
           | than that. The bees don't seem to mind, but the only metric
           | we have are 'do they stick around?'. Given they're free to
           | leave at any time if they don't like their home, that's a
           | pretty reasonable measure.
           | 
           | Before varroa were identified as one of the key causal
           | factors of colony collapse, there were questions around
           | whether the natural wax foundation, with its regular, and
           | perhaps slightly under-sized cells, were part of the problem.
           | Same question with plastic foundation / frames. Empirical
           | evidence suggests that the kinds of high-quality plastic
           | that's used in beehives isn't, so far as we can tell, part of
           | the problem.
        
             | unfocussed_mike wrote:
             | Thanks -- this is precisely the kind of info-filled reply I
             | was hoping for :-)
        
           | progre wrote:
           | Polystyrene hives are quite common. I'm sure plasic frames
           | exist but I haven't seen them in use.
        
             | unfocussed_mike wrote:
             | I don't think I ever want to eat honey again.
        
               | unfocussed_mike wrote:
               | (Polystyrene sets my teeth on edge, is why -- I should
               | have explained that better. Buzzing bees in
               | polystyrene... nails on blackboard)
        
             | jmhobbs wrote:
             | I'd be surprised to find any commercial keepers using
             | polystyrene. Migratory bee keeping is rough on equipment,
             | and at scale I think woodenware still makes the most sense.
             | I'm not in that community, but everything I see in Bee
             | Culture and online looks like polystyrene is firmly in the
             | hobbyist realm.
        
         | Gys wrote:
         | > We currently cater exclusively to the North American market.
         | We plan on expanding our reach within the next few months.
         | 
         | > We currently cater exclusively to Commercial Beekeepers
         | managing 1,000 beehives and above.
         | 
         | Genuine question: are you within their target market? I guess
         | only a commercial honey maker would be?
        
           | jsiepkes wrote:
           | > Genuine question: are you within their target market? I
           | guess only a commercial honey maker would be?
           | 
           | No just interested in the technical side of the product.
           | Though I would love to buy one with some friends and run it
           | if they would ever start selling to consumers.
        
             | Gasp0de wrote:
             | Would you be willing to put out 40$/mo with your 10 friends
             | though? The product seems super expensive in my (totally
             | unprofessional) opinion.
        
               | jsiepkes wrote:
               | I would definitly be willing to invest in it. The idea
               | would be to make it (atleast) a break-even operation
               | eventually.
        
       | Gys wrote:
       | A bit more small scale:
       | https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/hiive/hiive-better-for-...
        
         | arijun wrote:
         | This doesn't look like it does anything robotically, but is
         | rather is supposed to be a "better manmade hive" (e.g. with
         | insulation and a semi-permeable membrane). I am not equipped to
         | evaluate that claim, or if their manufacture/delivery goals are
         | possible, so I would probably wait until someone else weighed
         | in.
        
           | Gys wrote:
           | Indeed no robotics, but it has sensors to monitor the inside
           | environment and detect swarming (a beekeeping friend of mine
           | said it important to see that, because you would want to
           | 'catch' the swarm). The honey collection is manual, but seems
           | much easier then in current beehives.
           | 
           | Just to give an alternative modern take on beekeeping. The OP
           | solution is only for people having 1000+ hives ;-)
           | 
           | And neither I have any knowledge nor intention to keep bees.
        
         | WaitWaitWha wrote:
         | Looks like skeps that were made taller?
        
         | camtarn wrote:
         | This is really nice, and (to this non-beekeeper) looks like it
         | was actually made by people familiar with beekeeping, unlike
         | the original post.
        
       | drewm1980 wrote:
       | How does this control varoa?
       | 
       | One of the arguments against domesticated honey bees is that they
       | not only take food from but also spread disease to wild honey bee
       | populations. The more diseased the domestic ated bees get the
       | more hives keepers build to compensate, compounding the problem.
        
         | seanc wrote:
         | In the FAQ they say they heat the frame to a temperature which
         | "harms the varroa but does not harm the brood". IANABK, but
         | color me skeptical.
        
           | jmhobbs wrote:
           | That sounded dodgy to me but it does look like it's got some
           | legitimacy: https://scientificbeekeeping.com/a-test-of-
           | thermal-treatment...
           | 
           | I mostly use oxalic acid, but if heat treating becomes viable
           | I'd welcome it on the hobbyist scale.
        
         | catmanjan wrote:
         | According to the link "They constantly monitor pests within the
         | hive and apply non-chemical treatment where needed"
        
           | drewm1980 wrote:
           | Yup. That vagueness is why I asked.
        
       | Gasp0de wrote:
       | So according to Google one Beehive can produce 20-30kg of honey
       | per year. For the 24 beehives in this machine that would be 720kg
       | of honey max, selling for around 10EUR per kg in Germany. That
       | would make a maximum of 7200EUR in one year, while the machine
       | costs 4800$/year plus 2000 for delivery in the first year.
       | Additionally, the Beekeeper has to retrieve, package and sell the
       | honey. I don't see this machine reaching profitability, even if
       | it would mean no work whatsoever for the beekeeper.
        
         | Existenceblinks wrote:
         | Raw material is hard to sell these days, due to covid, some
         | countries try not to rely on lots of supply. Those material
         | needs to be processed, package it up, put a cool story to it.
        
         | gtvwill wrote:
         | We get bout 15-20kgs 3 times a year from our hives. Spring,
         | summer n autumn harvests.2 hives gives plenty for a family and
         | all our friends :)
        
         | freemint wrote:
         | This seems to be target for people who runs agricultural farms
         | which need bees for their other modes of profit.
        
           | giantg2 wrote:
           | Maybe. Usually they contract out pollination. The cost of
           | this machine seems to still make that more feasible.
           | 
           | If it's a big monocrop place, then it probably still makes
           | sense to contract pollination because you only need it for a
           | short period during the year. You likely couldn't harvest any
           | or much honey in the large monocrop fields because they would
           | need that honey to support themselves the rest of the year
           | when the monocrop is not flowering (or you'd heavily feed
           | them).
           | 
           | Smaller places, like local orchards, could maybe benefit, but
           | only if they're willing/able to process and sell their own
           | honey. Many small places can currently partner with
           | beekeepers for little to no money. In some cases, beekeepers
           | will even pay the orchard owners (usually in honey) for being
           | able to place the hives there. So maybe the orchard could
           | make a little extra profit. But it seems this machine costs
           | money on a yearly basis. This could create a huge liability
           | if you have a bad year.
        
         | kkfx wrote:
         | IMVHO the real point is another, that's just an experiment to
         | see if and how we can change agriculture. The point is can we
         | automate agriculture in a way to run on solar in a semi-
         | autonomous way?
         | 
         | If so berry-picking robots, these etc are just test pilot.
         | Surely so far they are too costly, as any new thing, but if
         | they prove to be reliable and usable enough things might
         | change.
         | 
         | We already have a certain dose of tech in agriculture but
         | that's not good tech (cloud-bound by choice of the vendor,
         | abusing the mean ignorance of their customers) but not
         | something like "hey can we get rid of tractors and still be
         | productive?", "can we farm poultry in automated fashion?", "can
         | we harvest various crops in autonomous semi-self-sustainable
         | ways?".
         | 
         | We are probably 20 years behind, but we must start from
         | something in a world who really lack public research...
        
         | WaitWaitWha wrote:
         | Depending where I put my hives, I can make 30 to 60lbs of honey
         | with my "100 year old wooden box" technology.
         | 
         | My ladies do not like "unnatural" (i.e. mostly plastic, metal)
         | things. They will cover it with propolis quickly. They also do
         | not seem to like electricity or odd magnetic fields, and things
         | that constantly hum, like transformers.
         | 
         | The listed things that the robot supposedly is doing (feeding,
         | watering, treat illness & pests, harvest honey, prevent
         | swarming, splitting & combining) are very inconsistent
         | depending on my queens, hive to hive. Much of it is done by the
         | hive herself. The rest is so cheap to do, it is but an a few
         | hours per year per hive.
         | 
         | It is not profitable to spend $57600/year for (looks like) 28
         | hives. It is also seems to be going the John Deere route with
         | the equipment. No thank you.
         | 
         | And, the "bees are dying, the bees are dying!" is becoming
         | tiresome.
        
           | simonebrunozzi wrote:
           | Nice comments, but you're way off on the annual cost. It
           | should be $400 x Beehome (24 beehives) x month, or $4,800 per
           | year for 24 beehives. That's ~$200 per beehive per year.
        
             | WaitWaitWha wrote:
             | Thanks for the correction. I miss-read it as monthly cost.
        
             | giantg2 wrote:
             | True. $200 per hive is still high in my opinion. Close to
             | half of expected revenue for local honey (50 lbs avg at
             | $10/lb). Then you have additional costs like bottling, the
             | treatment chemicals, packages to replace lost hives, etc.
        
         | femto wrote:
         | Beekeepers also make money by renting out hives for
         | pollination?
         | 
         | Edit: Found an interesting article:
         | 
         | https://theconversation.com/the-farmer-wants-a-hive-inside-t...
         | 
         | To quote:
         | 
         | "Alternatively, crop growers can buy their own hives and set
         | them up permanently, eliminating the cost of rental and
         | reducing the pressure on honeybees used for pollination
         | services. However, this comes at its own cost. Growers need to
         | maintain the beehives themselves or hire a beekeeper to do it."
         | 
         | It seems like this robot may be aimed at farmers who want their
         | own hives for pollination purposes, but also don't want the
         | burden of looking after them?
        
           | giantg2 wrote:
           | Maybe. The cost of this machine seems to still make
           | contracting more feasible.
           | 
           | If it's a big monocrop place, then it probably still makes
           | sense to contract pollination because you only need it for a
           | short period during the year. You likely couldn't harvest any
           | or much honey in the large monocrop fields because they would
           | need that honey to support themselves the rest of the year
           | when the monocrop is not flowering (or you'd heavily feed
           | them).
           | 
           | Smaller places, like local orchards, could maybe benefit, but
           | only if they're willing/able to process and sell their own
           | honey. Many small places can currently partner with
           | beekeepers for little to no money. In some cases, beekeepers
           | will even pay the orchard owners (usually in honey) for being
           | able to place the hives there. So maybe the orchard could
           | make a little extra profit. But it seems this machine costs
           | money on a yearly basis. This could create a huge liability
           | if you have a bad year.
        
             | berkes wrote:
             | Whats more: big monocrop areas cannot sustain bees
             | naturally. So they would die or become very unhealthy very
             | fast.
             | 
             | Bees need consistent food supply for the entire season.
             | Which is why contractors travel around. When they leave the
             | plum-orchards, they travel to the next place where they are
             | needed and bees can have food.
             | 
             | This is also the reason why "bees are dying". Apis
             | Mellifara - the honeybee - isn't dying, we take good care
             | of that. But many of the other insects are. Because
             | monoculture cannot provide them food.
             | 
             | Farmers used to specially source areas of their land for
             | this long ago. A plum-orchard would have at least 10% of
             | land with flowers, brambles, etc. To keep a healthy,
             | natural population of pollinators around.
        
               | mellavora wrote:
               | Yes, my dad took the idea of a "tithe" and set aside 10%
               | of the yard as "wild". Never touched it. I went into it a
               | few times, but it always felt like a type of trespassing.
               | 
               | Wish this was more of a common practice, though I know
               | the (short-term) economic incentives are against it.
        
           | znpy wrote:
           | > Beekeepers also make money by renting out hives for
           | pollination?
           | 
           | The sad things of those practices is that the hive is
           | stressed by being moved around a lot, and that hives are
           | often used to impollinate but after pesticides have been used
           | thius killing the hive.
           | 
           | It happens very often, sadly.
        
             | freemint wrote:
             | Bees swarms are pretty much the only organism that consents
             | to how it is treated. They stick around because it is
             | easier that way.
        
             | giantg2 wrote:
             | This is true for the industrial size farms and industrial
             | sized beekeeping operations.
             | 
             | Smaller local farms and beekeepers can work together
             | without these problems and without having to move hives, or
             | at least not very often.
        
           | mattferderer wrote:
           | You might also enjoy this rabbit hole of bee thieves across
           | California - https://www.theguardian.com/science/2022/feb/22/
           | beekeepers-c...
           | 
           | Interestingly enough, across the Midwest US, beekeepers tend
           | to give farmers a case of honey if the farmers allow them to
           | put bee hives on their land.
        
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