[HN Gopher] Lessons from Owning a Bookstore
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Lessons from Owning a Bookstore
Author : jseliger
Score : 102 points
Date : 2022-03-30 16:37 UTC (1 days ago)
(HTM) web link (ryanholiday.net)
(TXT) w3m dump (ryanholiday.net)
| fumeux_fume wrote:
| I came for some stories about starting a bookstore and all I got
| was a bunch of platitudes about adveristy.
| runevault wrote:
| Adversity and Stoicism is sort of his shtick. If you aren't
| aware of who he is its understandable how you'd be like "well
| this isn't what I wanted," and part of where HN/Reddit links
| can get weird for me. People who frequent a particular site
| know what they are in for from the title because they have the
| context of the person. Link sites are just places with a lot of
| information with some flavor but not to the same degree.
| TameAntelope wrote:
| For people who need to hear these kinds of words, these
| messages, I'm sure this content is valuable, but for folks
| who _don 't_ need to hear, "Confidence is earned" it tends to
| come across as trite and uninspiring.
|
| I have no idea where HN lands on that spectrum, but for me it
| evokes substantial eye rolling. "Yes, yes -- take risks,
| start small, do experiments, be the eternal student. Got it."
|
| Not that I'm acing any of those tests, but I'm probably at a
| point where hearing it a thousandth time isn't realistically
| likely to change my perspective on those topics. Not everyone
| is where I'm at! But if you are, I don't imagine these kinds
| of words/messages are going to excite you.
| runevault wrote:
| Yup you aren't wrong. But there is a HUGE cottage industry
| around this sort of thing, be it self help books or other
| forms. I don't have exact figures but I'm under the
| impression Ryan has made a LOT of money off using the angle
| of stoicism/The Obstacle is the Way (he even has a book
| titled this) to offer the idea of inspiration for those who
| want it but can't seem to find it.
|
| Does it actually work for people? Hell if I know, and the
| industry that has any hope of gathering that data doesn't
| want to know because if the answer is no and it gets out
| their entire money engine dies.
| oh_sigh wrote:
| Reading his about page should give you a clear indication why.
| Almost the first sentence is "I dropped out of college to
| apprentice under Robert Greene, author of The 48 Laws of
| Power." I've always been extremely wary of people who pursue
| power for its own sake, before they're even fully formed
| humans. A common technique they choose to acquire power is
| hucking drivel to other people who view the world the same way
| - commonly writing in those platitudes about overcoming
| adversity. I've literally never heard of this guy, but just
| from reading this hn post, I can almost guarantee you he has
| published a book that can be summed up in about 2 sentences but
| is inexplicably 125 pages.
| browningstreet wrote:
| You're completely wrong about who Ryan Holiday is.
|
| You can start by searching for his name on his own bookshop
| website: https://www.thepaintedporch.com/search?type=product&
| q=ryan+h...*
| oh_sigh wrote:
| Seeing titles like "Courage is Calling", "Stillness is the
| Key", and "Trust Me, I'm Lying" only make me more confident
| in my point, not less. But, I'm not going to buy these
| books just to see if my hunch developed over 15 seconds is
| correct.
| Kaibeezy wrote:
| I found "The Obstacle Is The Way" useful and accessible,
| and I went on to read Marcus, Seneca and others. I
| appreciate the introduction Holiday provided.
|
| Any combination of factors that allows the opening of
| something like an independent bookshop is A-OK by me.
| Maybe Tim Ferriss will open a wood-fired pizzeria.
| ankeshk wrote:
| Thanks for being confidently incorrect.
| tetsusaiga wrote:
| Often wrong, never in doubt
| oh_sigh wrote:
| I said I gained "more confidence", not that I am
| confident. After all, like I said, I put about 15 seconds
| of thought into it, which was how long I knew that Ryan
| Holiday as a person even existed.
|
| But I think I get it. I'll make another assumption, still
| in about 15 seconds, this time about you: You like Ryan
| Holiday. You subscribe to his mailing lists, have read
| his writings, and may have a couple of his books on your
| shelf. Your views on the world are aligned with his. So
| you're offended that I made a negative assumption about
| him because he's "your guy".
| human_person wrote:
| I find Ryan Holiday to be pretty annoying as a marketer,
| I used to be on his email list for book recs but I got
| frustrated when the vast majority of his recs were books
| written by white men (I dont have an issue with books
| written by white men, but I do see it as a red flag when
| someone only really consumes content from one
| perspective).
|
| But I did find "Trust Me, I'm Lying" to be a fascinating
| look into how to fake a grass roots campaign and create
| the illusion of virality (basically a step by step guide
| to fake it till you make it).
|
| I also found his book on Peter Thiel/the Hulk Hogan case
| (Conspiracy) to be a really interesting look into a
| lawsuit with pretty major implications for the future of
| journalism. Although his musings on Thiel's
| motives/morality/approach seemed to overlook the idea
| that maybe there just shouldnt be billionaires.
|
| Overall I would say he has interesting insights on
| specific situations but in general his thinking is fairly
| unimaginative/limited to manipulating the current system
| without actually questioning underlying assumptions.
| samatman wrote:
| msla wrote:
| I find people's opinions on Thiel to be an interesting
| litmus test: Seeing him as morally bad is one thing, and
| thinking there shouldn't be billionaires is a reasonable
| view, but if someone absolutely cannot or will not see
| that _he_ was the wronged party when Gawker outed him
| without his consent while he was in a country hostile to
| LGBTQ+ people, they 're morally blinkered at the very
| least.
|
| People who judge the morality of an action based on
| characteristics of the people involved have replaced
| their moral sense with tribal affiliation. That, or
| they're immature black-and-white thinkers who cannot
| understand that even someone who is generally bad can be
| on the right side of a specific issue.
| human_person wrote:
| I agree, what Gawker did was wrong. But being wronged
| once doesnt excuse Thiel's actions. And (more importantly
| imo) the larger issue is are you comfortable with a
| random person having enough money/power to threaten free
| speech.
|
| Also Thiel is far from the only person to be outed, the
| only difference is his reaction/how much money he has. Do
| you think its equally wrong that Wired outed Naomi Wu
| while she lives in a country hostile to LGBTQ+ people?
| phnofive wrote:
| > Courage is Calling: Fortune Favors the Brave
|
| I think I will judge that book by the words on its cover.
| krelian wrote:
| It's a dream of mine to own a Bookstore. Something similar to
| what's described in the article. Not a ton of books only books I
| know are good and interesting. Have the a store with a personal
| touch.
|
| I just can't see how it's going to work financially. I don't plan
| to get rich from it but I sure would like it to sustain itself
| and be able to provide for my family. I guess if you already have
| a business that's bringing in the cash and you open the store as
| a hobby that makes things easier, this seems to be the case for
| the writer of that article.
| browningstreet wrote:
| But there _are_ bookstores that have launched recently and have
| grown. The one in Truckee, CA is an obvious example. It 's
| definitely not a hobby operation.
|
| https://www.yelp.com/biz/word-after-word-books-truckee
| ddoran wrote:
| Rough Draft in Kingston, NY is another one. It's definitely
| my favorite bookshop right now. It helps to have a great
| coffee bar and booze bar and a cool historical building, but
| most of all it helps to be in a city to which hipsters have
| been migrating in droves in recent years. To be fair Rough
| Draft are as much a driver of that recent migration (along
| with other new similar businesses) as it is a beneficiary.
| They do a great job in curating their book selection,
| unfortunately the crowds and morning coffee queues keep me
| away more than I would like.
|
| https://www.roughdraftny.com
| jaimebuelta wrote:
| Carrying only a pre selection of books can be extremely tricky,
| unless you find a particular niche that's in demand. That could
| be easier to do in big cities, but the problem there is that
| the costs are higher, which pressures the amount of monthly
| sales to pay rent, etc.
|
| For experience running a comic book shop, I was selling a lot
| of stuff that I wasn't particularly interested, but my
| customers liked. Now, it's true that I had to close it after
| two years, but the interesting part is that it was really
| difficult to foresee what would be the best selling articles
| beforehand...
|
| Of course, alongside, I was selling a lot of stuff that quite
| interested me. But I had to work on with the business hat on,
| more than with the fan hat on, if that makes sense
| jaimebuelta wrote:
| It's incredibly obvious that the bookstore is not a real
| business, more like a hobby where he can do what he likes,
| without pressure... this obviously gives a different
| perspective...
|
| Disclaimer: I actually run a comic book shop, that's very similar
| to a bookshop and have quite different experience and took
| different lessons from it.
|
| (Unfortunately, I had to close it after two years. I talked about
| it in a blog post, in case someone finds it interesting
| https://wrongsideofmemphis.com/2013/04/01/i-was-once-a-non-t... )
| ggm wrote:
| Partner ran a second hand book store. Some customers are lovely
| but I stress some.
|
| Old books are dirty. There are insects, mould, dust, fingernails,
| yes, the first five odd bookmarks are funny but after a while,
| dead peoples bus tickets aren't amusing.
|
| It's hard work. Margins are thin. Paper weighs a tonne and people
| overpack boxes.
| kevinwang wrote:
| I'd be interested in quantifying "doing great" -- does this
| person have revenue numbers or anything like that elsewhere?
| cfeduke wrote:
| Google Ryan Holiday net worth, estimates are between 6.5 and 8
| million. Of that, the book store likely [just a guess] accounts
| for... likely next to none of that. :) But it may employ people
| and serve as an office and sometimes distribution point for
| Holiday's own books. And that could be "doing great."
|
| My wife and I owned a brick and mortar hobby store for a decade
| that was "doing great." It never made any money, but it
| employed a dozen people and fostered a wargaming community
| which is still vibrant to this day even after the store sold
| its assets to another hobby retailer.
| tonguez wrote:
| "As Zeno said, books are a way to have conversations with the
| dead. You can learn from people who came before you. They can
| also inspire and reassure you."
|
| wtf am i reading?
| teddyh wrote:
| Not much there actually relevant to books. Here's something for
| those who wanted that:
|
| http://www.threepanelsoul.com/comic/dealers-dilemma
| Nzen wrote:
| You could also try playing the community translation of Ben Wu
| Wu Yu [0], a bookstore simulation game. I wasn't able to,
| given the hex edit hacking used to insert the translated text
| without recompiling, but maybe your copy of windows will match
| that of the repository owner.
|
| [0] discussed here
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27323748
|
| [1] https://github.com/xraymemory/bookstory-en/issues/8
| EarthLaunch wrote:
| I was turned away from this bookstore yesterday for not masking!
| What a coincidence to see this here.
|
| I always stop for a bookstore. When I step through the door, I
| pause to take in the atmosphere and decide where to start
| browsing.
|
| Here, the person politely requested I don a mask. There were free
| masks available. Everyone browsing turned to look at me. I said,
| "oh...that's okay, thank you" and politely went back outside.
|
| I would mask to browse books or when someone asked me to. But I
| wasn't prepared to be put on the spot like that. It's not what I
| go to bookstores for. :(
| jamesmishra wrote:
| You didn't "want to be put on the spot"? What does that mean?
|
| You entered somebody else's building. They asked that you wear
| a mask and offered a free mask for you.
|
| At what moment were you "on the spot"?
| InCityDreams wrote:
| Were there signs up regarding obligatory masking? "Everyone
| browsing turned to look at me." In every bookstore I've been in
| people have rarely looked up as someone enters
| wollsmoth wrote:
| You say that you'll put on a mask to browse books. But you
| walked into a bookstore without one.
|
| You say you'll put on a mask if asked. But they did ask.
| Politely, as you noted.
|
| How would you have preferred that they handled that situation?
| misiti3780 wrote:
| Given that anyone who wants to be is vaccinated + boosted,
| and also considering how many people have had Omicron and
| have natural immunity - why even require a mask?
| Kaibeezy wrote:
| Vaccinated people are getting Omicron infections. Many are
| asymptomatic, but can still spread it. People carry other
| infections too.
|
| Masking reduces dispersion of virus-carrying aerosols.
| https://physics.aps.org/articles/v14/s155
|
| That would be why.
|
| It's trivial to pop on a mask. I will continue to do so
| when around other people in less-well-ventilated spaces.
| throwawayboise wrote:
| Two years on, are we still having this tedious argument?
| Kaibeezy wrote:
| The study I referenced sought to "quantify how masks
| mitigate the direct transport of drops, which was
| previously unquantified." It was published in November.
| misiti3780 wrote:
| I like Ryan's book recs and he is clearly a very smart, well
| read person, but he read one book about the 1918 flu and acts
| like he is a virologist.
|
| Some people are never going to let covid go, based on the
| content in his newsletter, he is one of them.
| ghostbrainalpha wrote:
| It feels like some people will NEVER let it go, but if you
| look at with a 3,000 foot perspective it was really only 3
| months ago that we had a real relevant wave.
|
| Maybe some of the people who got hit harder, or have higher
| anxiety will be worried for longer than we think they should,
| but I doubt that worry will extend a year or two past the
| rest of us.
| robotsteve2 wrote:
| > I'm happy enough to be putting books out in the world, making
| this community better, having a physical space, challenging
| myself, etc...as long as I don't lose lots of money, that's a
| win.
|
| The author defines book store success as "not losing lots of
| money." I think readers should be cautious to interpret this as a
| traditional business success story, since the author clearly
| views the book store as a hobby project more than a business.
| thenerdhead wrote:
| It helps when you're a famous author/influencer and owner of said
| bookstore and have famous author/influencer friends who help
| promote your bookstore. This sadly isn't the case for the many
| gems/rare book stores in the various cities around the US. My
| favorite bookstores that have been opened for 30+ years are
| recently going out of business.
|
| Not to discredit his success, but if anyone else followed these
| tips and did not have such a large following online, they would
| probably go under too.
|
| The one thing I think his bookstore does better than others? A
| personal curated collection. Also, Holiday is just simply a
| better marketer than your average bookstore owner.
|
| So just remember:
|
| - Start small.
|
| ...
|
| - Be famous.
| gcheong wrote:
| A friend of mine was working as a db developer for a local
| hospital in a small port town when the local bookstore
| announced it was closing shop. He decided to buy it and now he
| runs it full-time. It's been several years and as far as I know
| the business is doing well but perhaps that was because the
| bookstore was already established.
| bombcar wrote:
| A lot of those bookstores that are closing are because the
| owner is retiring and it's not financially capable of standing
| on its own. The owner often owns the building which lets them
| run at very low levels of income, which a replacement wouldn't
| be able to.
|
| If a community wants a bookstore to remain they'll probably
| need to set it up as a non-profit of some sort.
| anamax wrote:
| > If a community wants a bookstore to remain they'll probably
| need to set it up as a non-profit of some sort.
|
| That doesn't solve the problem.
|
| Space costs. So does someone working in the store. The latter
| is true for both owners and employees.
| meristohm wrote:
| If we increase the value of public wellness, as part of
| GDP, say, then keeping small bookstores around becomes
| valuable. That's my feeling, anyway, as someone with a deep
| appreciation of small bookstores and public libraries from
| childhood onward.
| gibolt wrote:
| Isn't that the role a library already fills? The only
| difference is maybe their love of the craft and more
| random options.
| jll29 wrote:
| The old owner somehow needs to be convinced to bequeathe the
| building to their community for us as a community bookshop
| exclusively.
| tharne wrote:
| Unfortunately, the sale of the building and property is
| often the owner's retirement plan. You'd have to find a way
| to purchase at or near market value.
| musicale wrote:
| Purchasing it at market value sounds fairly convincing.
| jkaptur wrote:
| He notes that, though it is a little buried:
|
| > Permission assets are everything. All my success as a writer,
| right down to this bookstore, has been rooted in the email
| lists and social media accounts I have built.
| mcguire wrote:
| " _...a better marketer..._ "
|
| Oh, my lord, everything about this article screams shallow
| internet marketing.
|
| " _...a small town book store in rural Texas..._ " Bastrop is a
| (rather distant) suburb of Austin. "Rural Texas" is Roby (https
| ://www.google.com/maps/place/Roby,+TX+79543/@32.7721923...).
|
| " _...the first 12 months of owning The Painted Porch. ... I
| love how The Painted Porch is now, but it took weeks and months
| to get it to where it is. It's been a continual process of
| improvement and growth and making changes._ " A _whole_ year?!
|
| " _I think one of the best decisions we made was making our
| book tower. It's 20 feet tall and made of some 2000 books, 4000
| nails, and 40 gallons of glue. It was not cheap to do. It was
| not easy to do. It took forever. We had to solve all sorts of
| logistical problems to make it work. But it's also probably one
| of the single best marketing and business decisions we made in
| the whole store. Because it's the number one thing that people
| come into the store to take pictures of._ "
|
| This:
| https://preview.redd.it/2ajncim1mdk71.png?width=1200&format=...
| Really? Really.
| thenerdhead wrote:
| The best part about old book stores was shelves filled to the
| brim with books and the various displays of how books are
| formed. The Last Bookstore in LA for example has those fun
| arches and makes you feel lost.
| WaitWaitWha wrote:
| That 20 feet tall tower of books freaks me out. 40 gallons of
| glue, and 2000 paper books, with a _fireplace_ in the middle
| of it! Glue. Paper. Fire.
| mauvehaus wrote:
| Presumably a non-operable fireplace. I don't have to look
| up the code to know that doesn't meet it. It's something
| like no flammable within 6" of the firebox and nothing
| within a certain plane within 12".
| Johnny555 wrote:
| Then you'd really be disturbed by almost every home
| fireplace that's framed in with flammable wooden studs. Not
| to mention kitchen stoves that are surrounded by wooden
| cabinets.
|
| Build a good firebox and it doesn't matter what surrounds
| the fireplace.
| wincy wrote:
| What strikes me is the surrounding picture I'm struck
| thinking "where are the books? Where are the bookshelves?
| There's like 6 books sparsely populating a shelf. When I
| think of a used book store like the one I frequented when I
| was a teenager, I expect it to be absolutely lousy with books
| in every nook and cranny, filled to the brim with interesting
| finds.
| maicro wrote:
| I mean, obviously they had to get the books for the tower
| from _somewhere_...
| elliekelly wrote:
| This is everything I love about the Book Barn[1] it's
| bursting at the seams with used books. Even though the
| traffic between Boston & NYC is awful I prefer to drive
| just so I can stop by and explore. I've never encountered a
| _bad_ used bookstore but the Book Barn is hands down the
| best I 've ever come across.
|
| [1]https://www.bookbarnniantic.com/explore-the-store
| Aromasin wrote:
| One of my favourite book shops is in Brixton, London. It
| piled floor to ceiling in a place opposite the markets,
| and there's a book in the back with comfy sofas, a store
| cat, and a very hippy dippy owner who loves a natter
| about what he read this week. He curated the whackiest
| collection of literature, from high school text books, to
| ones on shamanistic practices in pre-colonial Uganda.
| It's utterly bizarre, and the complete antithesis of the
| author of OPs article.
|
| I try to avoid being critical of people's work,
| especially businesses because good on them for at least
| trying, but in this case I think the shop from the
| article is truly lacking any soul that a traditional
| bookshop can and should have. Empty shelves look sad, not
| trendy.
| tharne wrote:
| > Oh, my lord, everything about this article screams shallow
| internet marketing.
|
| Shallow internet marketing is kind of Ryan Holiday's jam.
| He's to books what Cheetos is to food.
| [deleted]
| petercooper wrote:
| I've noticed a few people here saying they wanted to read about
| the experience of owning a book store. I can strongly recommend
| _" The Diary of a Bookseller"_ by Shaun Bythell after ending up
| at his very eclectic book shop in the middle of nowhere in
| Scotland and discovering he's actually a fantastic diarist too. A
| bit more background:
| https://www.theguardian.com/books/2017/oct/22/diary-of-books...
| robocat wrote:
| George Orwell wrote an essay on his experience working in a
| book shop: https://www.orwellfoundation.com/the-orwell-
| foundation/orwel... He worked there 1934+ and wrote the essay
| in 1936[1].
|
| The main character of his novel Keep The Aspidistra Flying
| worked in a book store - with some scathing character vignettes
| of the customers! Despressing book and Eric Blair himself
| disliked it "Orwell refused to allow either Keep the Aspidistra
| Flying or his first novel, the considerably weaker A
| Clergyman's Daughter, to be reprinted in his lifetime."[2]
|
| [1]
| https://www.letterpressproject.co.uk/media/file/BMLetterpres...
|
| [2]
| https://www.theguardian.com/books/2003/jul/06/georgeorwell.c...
| smm11 wrote:
| A parent started a used bookstore when I was kid in the 70s. I
| have no idea where the initial bunch of books came from, but we'd
| buy books and magazines, too.
|
| I spent the summer with a ton of MAD, Cracked, Cartoons, and when
| nobody was looking Playboy magazines, a lot from the 50s and 60s.
| A lot of WWII stuff was around as well, Sad Sack stuff.
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