[HN Gopher] Deserts 'breathe' water vapor, study shows
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       Deserts 'breathe' water vapor, study shows
        
       Author : PaulHoule
       Score  : 67 points
       Date   : 2022-03-30 15:36 UTC (7 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (news.cornell.edu)
 (TXT) w3m dump (news.cornell.edu)
        
       | seltzered_ wrote:
       | There is a lot being talked about in terms of water vapor and
       | 'new water paradigm' ideas. Here's a small webinar series that
       | goes into a collaborative effort to draft 'water principles' to
       | understand water vapor more: https://earth-
       | regenerators.mn.co/events/how-to-restore-the-w...
       | 
       | Basically there are some concepts around atmospheric river 'heart
       | pumps' associated with forests, evapotranspiration and it's role
       | in the 'small water cycle', how moisture can 'hop' from coast
       | further inland (or not), and how urbanization & modern
       | agriculture has impacted water (urban heat dome effect, water
       | drainage, etc.). There's probably some interesting
       | opportunities/research in seeing this better.
        
       | aurizon wrote:
       | This means that there may be a way to change the net water
       | balance in desert areas to enhance plant growth. One effective
       | method is a water barrier(black plastic) with a few inches of
       | sand to weight it down. Then every 10-15 feet you make a slope
       | graded round are 5.7.5 feet across and make small hole(3-5
       | inches) in this plastic and you plant a desert tree in that hole.
       | Next you kill all goats in the area and make them extinct in that
       | wide area.(Goats create deserts by cropping all tree
       | branches/leaves/roots and are felt by many to have contributed to
       | the desertification of North Africa(and other places). Deserts
       | get some rain - whatever they get is directed to the graded holes
       | and the cover limits evaporation. Drip irrigation to each tree
       | will help it to establish. The drop in evaporation will add to
       | the retained water budget and tree transpired water will
       | contribute to potential cloud formation and rain as the process
       | is continued. One of the desert elimination projects now underway
       | to plant tree in this area need to adopt these practices over a
       | wide area. https://www.greatgreenwall.org/about-great-green-wall
        
         | dylan604 wrote:
         | Or, we could just build giant solar farms in the desert to
         | change its climate:
         | 
         | https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.aar5629
        
         | ghostbrainalpha wrote:
         | Sounds like Liet-Kynes plan to terraform Dune.
        
         | screye wrote:
         | One meta question is whether this problem is worth solving at
         | all ? There are places where forests are much easier to grow,
         | and we are cutting them down by the thousands on a daily basis.
         | 
         | For carbon capture, it is much easier to densify regions with
         | already suitable conditions than trying to plant a few trees in
         | inhospitable regions.
         | 
         | Food is a solved problem in the modern era. High cost
         | agriculture is unsustainable in a global market. If non-
         | mechanized farmers in highly arable places (India) are being
         | priced out, then what hope does harsh desert agriculture have ?
         | 
         | Given other 'low hanging fruit' solutions, is the opportunity
         | cost of pursuing such a solution too high ?
        
           | brudgers wrote:
           | For about six thousand years (at least), turning deserts and
           | other marginal terrain into croplands is what tends to
           | distinguish civilizations from non-civilizations: cities
           | being a byproduct of the scale of agriculture activities
           | water movement processes make possible.
           | 
           | Which is not me saying it is good or bad.
           | 
           | Just me saying 'it is.'
           | 
           | With the point being it is worth deciding if there is a baby
           | in the bath water. Or irrigation canal so to speak before
           | deciding which moral high ground is rocky and which is silty.
        
           | andscoop wrote:
           | > Food is a solved problem in the modern era.
           | 
           | Solved problem? We've hardly even identified the actual
           | problem.
           | 
           | As it it stands now farming is an open loop system and input
           | supplies are becoming constrained and expensive. We have
           | killed our soils and the dirt that is left behind requires
           | external inputs to produce current crop numbers.
           | 
           | In addition to this, we grow a large portion of our food in
           | the United States in areas with active droughts and impending
           | water shortages.
           | 
           | Fortunately there are better ways to do things, I just don't
           | know that we can change fast enough.
           | 
           | To address the greater point of your comment though, I agree.
        
           | sbierwagen wrote:
           | >Food is a solved problem in the modern era.
           | 
           | It's "solved" if you can produce synthetic fertilizers from
           | fossil fuels indefinitely.
        
           | aurizon wrote:
           | The idea is to enlarge the arable/growth area or all those
           | people will die or move and transfer the crowding to another
           | area - which might then get depleted...
        
           | aurizon wrote:
           | We are in such great danger that we need to do many positive
           | moves in parallel to save our collective asses... This
           | stupidity in Ukraine endangers millions.
        
         | Melatonic wrote:
         | Or maybe we just need actual predators of those goats?
        
           | aurizon wrote:
           | Mankind needs a top predator - who walks among them,
           | predation occurs, and population density declines...
        
           | lostapathy wrote:
           | Humans are predators too!
        
             | Melatonic wrote:
             | The problem is humans usually displace or kill the
             | predators at the top of the food chain (since we are the
             | top) which then allows the stuff below it to grow beyond
             | what it should.
             | 
             | So for example if something like a large cat was normally
             | hunting these goats it is very possible humans would have
             | been threatened by the presence of the cats (or been
             | annoyed that the cats were killing domesticated animals)
             | and then hunted those to extinction. Very common throughout
             | human history.
        
       | pengaru wrote:
       | Something that will never cease to amaze me is how damp desert
       | land tends to be just feet below the surface. Even months since
       | the last rain event, I'll go dig a hole on my land in the Mojave
       | and with little effort I'm digging through sand that's damp-
       | smelling and visibly darker and cooler from retained moisture.
       | Return to the hole a day later and its a lighter shade of brown,
       | all dried up from exposure.
        
         | msandford wrote:
         | In a weird way this makes sense to me. A lot of what takes
         | water out of the ground is plants with their roots that extend
         | way, way down. No plants means no roots and no shortcuts to get
         | the water out. It has to go out the old fashioned way by
         | diffusion.
         | 
         | The thinker the dry layer the more "insulating" it is from a
         | water diffusion standpoint. It's kind of like lake ice. The
         | thicker it gets the slower it gets thicker.
        
       | Julesman wrote:
       | What a crappy intro. No, deserts are NOT alive. Interesting
       | stuff. Not the brightest writer in the bunch.
        
         | uoaei wrote:
         | I am willing to bet money that you have never seriously
         | grappled with the question of what is alive or not.
        
         | ganzuul wrote:
         | Well duh. Deserts are not alive because they are dead. Save
         | soil. consciousplanet.org
        
         | nameless912 wrote:
         | Computer, please define metaphor.
        
         | aurizon wrote:
         | Well, the granary of the roman empire was gradually ruined by
         | man. animal and climate drift. Some say goats inexorably
         | stripped all green plants and shifted the ecology. Other say
         | the climate drift? Was one caused by the other?
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sahara
         | 
         | https://www.prb.org/resources/africas-struggle-with-desertif...
        
         | brimble wrote:
         | > What a crappy intro.
         | 
         | There was nothing about feces in the intro.
        
       | janci wrote:
       | It's the great maker that breathe water and makes spice.
        
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       (page generated 2022-03-30 23:01 UTC)