[HN Gopher] IP over Avian Carriers RFC 1149 event (2001)
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IP over Avian Carriers RFC 1149 event (2001)
Author : tyropita
Score : 71 points
Date : 2022-03-29 14:13 UTC (8 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.blug.linux.no)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.blug.linux.no)
| divbzero wrote:
| RFC 1149 was updated in RFC 6214 [1] to support IPv6 but adoption
| has been painstakingly slow among avian ISPs.
|
| [1]: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc6214
| einpoklum wrote:
| Hey! We'll have none of that anti-pigeon bigotry here :-P
| --- \ / @ ) \
| _/_ |~ \) \ ( ( ( \ \
| ( ( ( ( ( | \ _ _=(_(_(_(_(_(_(_ _ _ / )
| - _ _ _ / _\___
| ` "'
| charcircuit wrote:
| Do you have a source for this? I would imagine all of them
| would already support it if they are in to supporting a niche
| such as avian messaging.
| iamtheworstdev wrote:
| related:
| http://linux.omnipotent.net/article.php?article_id=12239.
| ineedasername wrote:
| The vast majority of "packets dropped" were completely unrelated
| to IP traffic.
| throw0101a wrote:
| Not so funny at times: an article from 2009, "In Africa, A Pigeon
| Transfers Data Faster Than The Internet":
|
| * https://www.wired.com/2009/09/in-africa-a-pigeon-transfers-d...
|
| * https://spectrum.ieee.org/carrier-pigeon-beats-internet-
| mattalex wrote:
| As long as your name isn't google, transfer by pigeon will
| always be faster (regardless of africa, silicon valley or
| downtown New York). The reason people use the internet for data
| transfer has little to do with transfer speed and everything to
| do with latency.
| divbzero wrote:
| Strap the pigeon with 100 1TB microSD cards (~250 mg per card)
| and the bandwidth will approach the transfer speed of the
| microSD card itself -- nearly gigabit speed for UHS-III cards.
| 29athrowaway wrote:
| A truck full of storage volumes can have a higher bandwidth
| than fiber. Just really bad latency.
| deepspace wrote:
| Interesting how the analogy progressed over the years from "a
| station wagon filled with tapes" to "a truck full of storage
| volumes".
|
| An A380 filled with micro SD cards would likely beat any
| conceivable fiber network in bandwidth, if not latency.
| czinck wrote:
| XKCD What If kinda answered your question, although it's
| for the real fleets and not a specific plane, https://what-
| if.xkcd.com/31/. From February 2013 though, so out-of-date
| even if you ignore how covid has messed with shipping.
| 29athrowaway wrote:
| A hyperloop full of DNA-based storage has more bandwidth
| than STM-1024 but less latency.
| readams wrote:
| This is roughly the idea behind Amazon snowball and similar
| products.
| tmysl wrote:
| r/BirdsArentReal will definitely get a kick out of this
| ineedasername wrote:
| Sure, it's all fun & games when everyone is in on the joke.
| Just like the flat earthers, up until some musician gets into a
| twitter spat with Neil Degrasse Tyson over the flatness (or
| lack thereof) of the Earth.
|
| Only with birds, we'll have non-ironic activists burning down
| chicken coops and claiming the so-called "meat" we buy in
| supermarkets is some kind of mind control or Soylent Green, and
| all evidence that it started as a joke will be taken as
| evidence of a coverup.
| markstos wrote:
| Where the claims that meat is mind control or Soylent Green?
| ineedasername wrote:
| That was speculation of where the fledgling #BirdsArentReal
| movement could end up, but I'm really not serious about my
| criticism of the meme.
|
| As a sibling comment to yours pointed out, true believers
| of things like a flat earth are an extreme minority and I'm
| not particularly concerned that a parody conspiracy theory
| will cause much harm. I doubt the few true believers will
| be burning chicken coops any more than flat earthers are
| blowing up globes. (I really hope I'm not wrong about that,
| I do like chicken quite a bit).
|
| And we, as a society & individuals, can't and shouldn't be
| 100% serious about everything 100% of the time. We should
| be able to laugh at things, even very serious things. For
| example I find it pretty funny that some Russian tanks are
| being abducted by Ukrainian farmers w/ tractors. I can also
| see how deadly serious it is: It's not like they're just a
| few viral videos made by influencers, it's everyday people
| like farmers trying to take deadly resources out of the
| hands of an invading army.
| quinnjh wrote:
| The united states consumer protection twitter has been
| championing humor in this area https://mobile.twitter.com
| /USCPSC/status/1478844214574305282?
|
| I like your points about the necessity of humor and i
| think its the only way to the future for us without mass
| psychosis and cultural schizming. When biomorphic-
| engineered bird-drones can fly autonomously, and pigeons
| have been carrying IP for the ruling class for thousands
| of years, we are going to need some comedy to settle the
| #birdsarereal issue
| mardifoufs wrote:
| True, unironic Flat earthers are still an extreme fringe of
| mostly mentally ill people. If anything, the most common
| conspiracy theory about flat earth is that it's a psyop to
| discredit...other conspiracy theories lol. You'd be
| considered as a complete weirdo for believing in flat earth
| even amongst qanon types.
|
| It's funny though since the "5g tower burning, covid denying
| flat earther" caricature has become so overused that some
| believe that it's actually a real thing. But in reality it's
| so incredibly uncommon
| tag2103 wrote:
| What a kinder and gentler internet we missed. I for one would
| support the "pigeoneer" position for my own small tech firm.
| mothsonasloth wrote:
| There is Avian and Sneakernet, any other esoteric RFCs?
|
| I've always wondered if you could send data on migrating shoals
| of fish like Salmon?
| ineedasername wrote:
| Here's a list of them:
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/April_Fools%27_Day_Request_for...
| can16358p wrote:
| Let's see what's being added there in two days...
| deathanatos wrote:
| My favorite is RFC 6919, "Further Key Words for Use in RFCs to
| Indicate Requirement Levels"[1], which adds more keywords in
| the same spirit as MUST and SHOULD, such as,
|
| > _The phrase "OUGHT TO" conveys an optimistic assertion of an
| implementation behavior that is clearly morally right, and thus
| does not require substantiation._
|
| [1]: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc6919
| deathanatos wrote:
| > _with ping times varying from 3211 to 6389 seconds. I guess
| this is a new record for ping times..._
|
| Hmm, T-mobile's network comes close, but not quite that high, I
| think. /s
|
| Somewhat more seriously, I have seen ping times approaching
| 20,000 ms on their network. Given the light-distance to the moon
| is ~1.3 seconds, this ping clearly went significantly further
| than the moon's orbit, and back; very clearly some routes need
| tweaking.
|
| That or one hop involved a somewhat speedier avian.
| thamer wrote:
| There are some instances of real data taking much more than
| 6,389 seconds to travel. Voyager 2 was contacted in November
| 2020[1], being at the time 18.8 billion km away from Earth.
| Light takes about 62,000 seconds or 17h25m to travel this
| distance... each way! Almost a 35-hour ping.
|
| Voyager 1 is further away and still sending data, although I
| don't think that it has received commands for a very long time.
|
| [1]
| https://www.forbes.com/sites/startswithabang/2020/11/04/voya...
| ryankrage77 wrote:
| It recieved commands as recently as December 2017, when the
| TCM thrusters were activated.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voyager_1#Future_of_the_probe
| zamadatix wrote:
| More likely than moving far or moving slow the ping spent a
| long time being buffered at a radio lower layer retransmit
| where, much like Wi-Fi, having an issue sending the packet can
| result in multiple retries instead of an immediate drop.
| sarchertech wrote:
| Funny that this would come up. This event was what inspired the
| last picture in a book I'm working on.
|
| In the same vein, I actually built a device once that allowed you
| to send http messages via black and white marbles rolling down a
| tube. It was _very_ slow (and the simplest message required
| refilling the hopper many times).
|
| I used some drawings of an old gumball machine to design the
| dispenser, and I used an Arduino with a color sensor and an LED
| in a 3d printed tunnel to detect the marble color. I had to bury
| the sensor inside a tunnel with several twists and turns to block
| out enough ambient light to get a reliable signal.
|
| https://www.networksfromscratch.com/1.html#whats-next
| jkonline wrote:
| I have proudly used RFC 1149s and 2549 many times over the years,
| (as straight faced as possible) as learning aids for INFOSEC and
| Help desk n00bs. Being able to introduce intentionally humorous
| material (that is documented within a scientific document
| process) has been a huge help.
| jug wrote:
| There is clearly an issue with the network protocol if the
| packets run the risk of starting to socialize with each other!
| Helloyello wrote:
| billpg wrote:
| When I read that RFC, I imagined that a barcode would be more
| reliable to read in and process than printing the hex characters.
| jxy wrote:
| Typical 1D barcode has a size limit, and the RFC is from 1990.
| Nowadays you could just use a QR code, which would be
| comfortable enough to have a 1500 MTU in a single QR code. It
| probably warrants an additional layer so multiple QR codes can
| be transmitted by a single carrier.
| _Algernon_ wrote:
| Looked into using paper as an archival for small amounts of
| data as a long-term backup of very important data, and found
| this[1], which would allow encoding ~200kB of data per A4
| page. Should be applicable for avian IP as well.
|
| [1]: https://blog.za3k.com/paper-archival/
| jkonline wrote:
| Interesting, many thanks. Currently enjoying the fall down
| the Golay code rabbit hole.
|
| https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binary_Golay_code
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