[HN Gopher] Why and how to start a startup serving emerging markets
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       Why and how to start a startup serving emerging markets
        
       Author : luu
       Score  : 58 points
       Date   : 2022-03-27 05:51 UTC (2 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.benkuhn.net)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.benkuhn.net)
        
       | njacobs5074 wrote:
       | I think part of it is that while this may be a win for your
       | customers and maybe for the founders, the payoff for the
       | startup's employees may not be that lucrative, based purely on
       | the wages that are typically paid in-country as compared with the
       | US, for example.
        
         | m0llusk wrote:
         | From what the article describes the benefits of working for
         | such a company are transparently honest and fair plus that work
         | gives experience with robust management practices and
         | international business culture. In these countries a good job
         | with fair and regular pay that prepares workers for expanding
         | career possibilities is a really big deal.
         | 
         | And there is evidence of this opportunity focused mindset in
         | the US. Last I checked the highest earning demographic segment
         | in the US was Nigerian immigrants. Being ready to work hard and
         | conscious of the risk of failure makes a huge difference in how
         | pay, work, and business operations are evaluated.
        
           | unmole wrote:
           | > Last I checked the highest earning demographic segment in
           | the US was Nigerian immigrants.
           | 
           | That has more to do with the fact that only the most highly
           | skilled and educated Nigerians manage to emigrate to the US.
           | You see something similar with Indian immigrants, also a very
           | high earning demographic.
        
       | throwoutway wrote:
       | This article mentions providing $5 of value when the daily wage
       | is $5.
       | 
       | Question for an economist: what effect does this have on an
       | emerging economy? If scaled up to half of the population, does
       | that cause inflation?
        
         | claudiulodro wrote:
         | It's complicated. For example, productivity in America has
         | soared the last 50 years, so people are providing more value
         | than ever, but American salaries have not increased at the same
         | pace.
        
           | gruez wrote:
           | >but American salaries have not increased at the same pace.
           | 
           | AFAIK most of the difference is from measuring total comp vs.
           | wages.
        
       | ccvannorman wrote:
       | FTA: "Wave's mission is to improve the world, not to make money"
       | 
       | "Our investors are venture capitalists trying to make a high
       | return"
       | 
       | "saving our users over $100 million so far [in Senegal alone]."
       | 
       | Am I missing something? What's to stop your VCs from leaning on
       | you to suddenly hike your rates up in favor of more profits once
       | you are a de facto monopoly on payment services? If the answer
       | isn't "They don't and will never hold voting shares and board
       | seats", then why did they invest in your company at all ...?
        
         | barry-cotter wrote:
         | > What's to stop your VCs from leaning on you to suddenly hike
         | your rates up in favor of more profits once you are a de facto
         | monopoly on payment services?
         | 
         | They don't hold a majority of votes is one possible answer.
         | Another is that they're much more invested in growth than
         | profitability. Why try to make as much money as you can in
         | Senegal when the rest of Africa is right there? Also "Your
         | margin is my opportunity." If you're the first company to
         | provide a good service and you're cheap and good what exactly
         | are wannabe competitors going to do to oust you?
         | 
         | > If the answer isn't "They don't and will never hold voting
         | shares and board seats", then why did they invest in your
         | company at all ...?
         | 
         | To make lots of money. If founding team is really important and
         | VC returns are power law distributed then investing in a much
         | better team that is a lot less greedy can be a great bet.
        
           | bilbo0s wrote:
           | _Why try to make as much money as you can in Senegal when the
           | rest of Africa is right there?_
           | 
           | Because the rest of Africa is more likely to settle on mpesa.
           | Not trying to be snarky, genuinely looking for a reason for a
           | Kenyan or Ghanaian to switch to Wave for example? Off the top
           | of my head, I can't think of one? This is particularly true
           | for anyone in the EAC.
           | 
           | In short, maybe your investors will begin to see they have
           | little chance of winning over all of Africa. Fundamentally,
           | you're really no different than mpesa in terms of structure.
           | (I can't determine much of a difference in terms of
           | fundamental functionality either?)
           | 
           | I'd genuinely like to hear how you guys view things like
           | mpesa? Along with a good answer to the neo colonial
           | criticism? If you have good stories for those two issues, I
           | think you have a chance. (Where 'good' means 'resonates with
           | young Africans who are much more likely to be Pan Africanist
           | these days'.)
        
         | ignoramous wrote:
         | I'm no capitalist, but if you could improve the world while
         | delivering exponential returns on capital, that's a win-win? I
         | don't think something's mutually exclusive just because it is
         | rare.
        
       | rodolphoarruda wrote:
       | The post does not mention Latin America, only Africa. Using
       | "emerging markets" is somewhat imprecise then. I believe the
       | title could be updated to reflect that, maybe to "serving the
       | African region".
        
         | jcmontx wrote:
         | Latin America is often overlooked in the tech world, but there
         | is a growing and healthy tech ecosystem in the region.
         | Argentina has companies like MercadoLibre, Auth0 and Globant.
         | Colombia has Rappi. Uruguay has dLocal. Brazil a ginormous
         | amount of fintechs. Among many others.
         | 
         | The cool thing is that these companies are usually very region-
         | focused and if they hire/open offices outside their HQ, it's in
         | other LatAm country. I think the region is on the right track
         | to become a player in the tech world.
        
       | camillomiller wrote:
       | Downvote me to hell, but all I could read, despite the good
       | intention, is about taking advantage of emerging markets because
       | of the opportunities they offer to Western entrepreneurs. How is
       | this not digital colonialism? What about fostering local
       | entrepreneurs to develop a local healthy startup community?
       | 
       | >> more altruists with experience working in the developed world
       | should try this approach.
       | 
       | This post should have been called "the Western man's digital
       | burden"
        
         | makerdiety wrote:
         | The solution to your digital colonialism is free and open
         | source software. :)
         | 
         | It would demonstrate that venture capitalists aren't as smart
         | as they think they are and it would prove that they're playing
         | a losing game.
        
         | recuter wrote:
         | OK, move to Africa and foster local entrepreneurs and show us
         | all how to do it better. I suggest Liberia as a starting point,
         | godspeed.
         | 
         | P.S. - Bonus points if you befriend some locals, show them this
         | post and the service discussed, explain your position about how
         | it is wrong and regale them with your politics. I'd love to see
         | a video of that.
        
           | user_named wrote:
           | On point.
        
           | longtimelistnr wrote:
           | ? I don't know what you're trying to say if only furthering
           | his point. Not everyone wants to be a cryptobro or a VC pet
           | 
           | Emerging markets are emerging because they're doing something
           | right no need to offer them something "better"
        
             | recuter wrote:
             | No problem, I'll spell it out for you:
             | 
             | Calling a person who is dedicating his life and actually
             | spending time in Africa a "digital colonist who is doing it
             | wrong" based on some vague gut feeling is somewhat
             | unhinged.
             | 
             | Not providing even a whiff of a suggestion as to "the right
             | way" is not constructive. And doing all this whilst likely
             | contributing absolutely diddlqysquat of value yourself is,
             | to use your parlance, problematic.
             | 
             | Topping it off with pointing out his alleged western
             | origins is flat out bigoted.
             | 
             | As for yourself, Star Trek-esque non interference is the
             | morally superior path? You've tried nothing and you're all
             | out of ideas? Certainly an interesting approach. Perhaps
             | more of a peanut gallery ethos than a hacker one.
             | 
             | You could explain how on earth cryptobros factor into all
             | this or offer any shred of specific concerns and criticisms
             | you have with regards to the OP but that would involve
             | actually reading the article and making an effort and
             | that's not in keeping with your moral philosophy of doing
             | nothing.
        
               | camillomiller wrote:
               | The only unhinged thing here is the tone of your
               | comments. I'm posing what I consider a reasonable doubt,
               | especially due to the way the linked post is written.
               | There is not one single bit of ethical thinking, just a
               | sheer celebration of how easy it is to make money in
               | countries you wouldn't think of as profitable markets.
               | You, on the other hand, have decided already that a white
               | man's proactiveness and alacrity is all it takes to free
               | him from whatever colonial baggage we all INEVITABLY
               | carry when we dab as Westerners into African affairs.
        
               | recuter wrote:
               | Sure bud, we are all white men with colonial baggage on
               | this website. I'm slowly backing away now.
        
               | camillomiller wrote:
               | You can be whatever, but you haven't declared yourself.
               | Based on the general demographic of this website, it's
               | fair to assume that you are both a man and a Westerner,
               | or in some way a high-skilled privileged English native
               | or near-native from a Western country, or Western-
               | adjacent country.
        
               | camillomiller wrote:
               | Also, please learn how to properly quote your opponent in
               | an online debate. I never said anything along the lines
               | of "digital colonist who is doing it wrong". That is your
               | (wrong) assumption about what I wrote. I asked if what's
               | described in the original post can't somehow be
               | considered a form of digital colonialism. It's a rather
               | important point for me, because when I discuss a systemic
               | problem I'm strongly convinced we should avoid to call
               | out individual behaviors, Twitter-storm style.
        
           | bilbo0s wrote:
           | Liberia?
           | 
           | Just curious how a place like Liberia would be considered
           | 'emerging'? Not to slam Liberia, but even most Liberians
           | would readily admit that there is an enormous difference
           | between Monrovia and Accra. It's just reality. I mean,
           | Liberians are trying to get settled in Ghana, not the other
           | way around.
        
         | elforce002 wrote:
         | I'm 100% with you.
        
         | oraoraoraoraora wrote:
         | Just going to drop this here for a good laugh.https://hire-a-
         | mzungu.biz/
        
           | recuter wrote:
           | Can you also drop an explanation as to why OP deserves to be
           | classified as a mzungu or is your classification automatic?
        
             | oraoraoraoraora wrote:
             | Don't know where this is going, just thought this website
             | was bringing to light something that isn't discussed, in a
             | very funny way.
        
               | recuter wrote:
               | It isn't unfunny and tokenism is surely a cross-cultural
               | phenomenon in all of its many forms. I don't believe in
               | PC culture and getting offended, discuss away.
               | 
               | My impression is the guy in the OP is genuinely trying
               | and isn't incompetent. If these guys are capitalizing on
               | the very phenomenon you are lampooning by getting large
               | VC sums injected into an emerging economy robinhood
               | style... wouldn't that be... a good thing?
               | 
               | That's what the blog post is flat out intimating. Perhaps
               | I'm naive.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | blip54321 wrote:
         | My experience is that there are a lot of synergies to be
         | leveraged. It's almost ridiculously easy to start a successful
         | startup in a place like Nigeria or Ghana which either:
         | 
         | - Providing things Nigeria excels at to Western markets (e.g.
         | the same types of call center models India started out with a
         | few decades back).
         | 
         | - Launch services in Nigeria common in Western markets but not
         | yet there.
         | 
         | - Integrate Western and African models
         | 
         | Those sorts of things tend to benefit everyone involved on both
         | sides of the pond. Compared to, for example, making web
         | frameworks, there is a lot more low-hanging fruit. Silicon
         | Valley has an almost unlimited supply of people wanting to do
         | startups for people like themselves. This leaves many other
         | markets under-tapped.
         | 
         | In terms of fostering local entrepreneurs, that happens
         | naturally. Look at China, Taiwan, Korea, or Japan. They started
         | with this model, at which point locals noticed they could do
         | the same better and cheaper themselves, while retaining more
         | profit. India is about half-way there now. It's very hard to
         | foster entrepreneurship by telling. It's very easy by modeling.
         | 
         | China, Korea, Taiwan, India, and Japan never turned into
         | Western colonies, as you're predicting.
        
         | telchior wrote:
         | I don't think you should be downvoted, it's a consideration
         | that should probably always be somewhere in the back of
         | people's minds when they go to some emerging market,
         | considering history. Maybe in the same way that Germany asks
         | themselves what their true purpose is when they're adding to
         | their military budget.
         | 
         | But it would be nice to see some suggestion of what the
         | "proper" way to try to help out in the developing world if
         | you're an altruism-minded tech person.
         | 
         | Off the top of my head...
         | 
         | You could completely avoid going there and stay at home,
         | because anything you do is inherently corrupt and colonialist.
         | Let's call this the Catholic option (original sin and all). OK,
         | but "emerging" can stay that way for decades or just never
         | emerge; whatever knowledge you have stays locked in your head.
         | Maybe eventually, some Western corporation comes in with the
         | product you would have built there, except it's all made
         | overseas and only takes from the local economy.
         | 
         | You could go there and teach coding and entrepreneurship. Great
         | idea! Hope someone is paying your bills to do so (they're going
         | to be higher than you think). But there's another issue here:
         | there is a local environment. You can't just import your
         | knowledge, it's kind of specific to where you're from and won't
         | work. Everything from -- how do you interact with employees?
         | (Believe me, Silicon Valley BS does not fly in the
         | international workforce.) What are the buying habits and needs
         | of your local customers? How do you deal with governments that
         | range from inefficient to massively corrupt? At best, with no
         | local experience, you're teaching skills that are not really as
         | great as you think they are.
         | 
         | You could join an existing local company. Whoops, nobody can
         | hire you and/or there are none and/or you don't speak the
         | language. Also, you don't have a work permit. Nobody is
         | particularly interested in this weirdo with no local experience
         | going around offering their knowledge.
         | 
         | Honestly, I'm trying to give you a fair reading. I have
         | traveled, I've started a (very small, still exists but isn't
         | growing) startup in an emerging country, and it is just really
         | difficult. Everything is different, and trying to adapt what
         | you know is not a cakewalk. The capitalist model works because
         | you have to get hands-on, figure out how to actually build
         | something, and work through the very difficult puzzle of how
         | knowledge actually is transferred.
         | 
         | And in my personal experience, the big successes really aren't
         | "Westerner barges into and takes over local market" anyway.
         | There's usually some connection -- off the top of my head, look
         | at Canva, with a second-generation Filipina-Australian building
         | a massive business in the Philippines (with help from US and
         | Aus investors / execs).
        
       | jimkleiber wrote:
       | Quick note: I think the post is from November 2019 and that the
       | title should probably be updated to reflect that.
        
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