[HN Gopher] Killed by Microsoft
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Killed by Microsoft
        
       Author : sandebert
       Score  : 266 points
       Date   : 2022-03-27 18:16 UTC (4 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (killedbymicrosoft.info)
 (TXT) w3m dump (killedbymicrosoft.info)
        
       | folli wrote:
       | Any suggestions for alternatives to Microsoft Academic? Google
       | Scholar is ok, Researchgate sucks, and I'm wondering about any
       | other such services which I might not be aware about.
        
         | thomasahle wrote:
         | Agreed, Microsoft Academic was a super useful tool, and I
         | haven't seen anything as good.
        
       | tester756 wrote:
       | ILoo
       | 
       | Killed almost 19 years ago, iLoo was a smart portable toilet
       | integrating the complete equipment to surf the Internet from
       | inside and outside the cabinet. It was 13 days old.
       | 
       | lol
        
         | Minor49er wrote:
         | I guess they realized that it was more economical to put the
         | crap inside of the software rather than the other way around
        
       | jbullock35 wrote:
       | Missing: Microsoft Bookshelf [1]. Encarta was a somewhat similar
       | product, but the reference sources in Bookshelf were arguably
       | better. For example, Bookshelf contained the unabridged American
       | Heritage Dictionary, while Encarta used (I think) a Webster's
       | dictionary [2].
       | 
       | I still use Bookshelf 1996 on most days of the week.
       | 
       | [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Bookshelf
       | 
       | [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Encarta_Webster%27s_Dictionary
        
         | glitchc wrote:
         | Unless you have a Windows 3.1 vm kicking around just to support
         | this, that seems unlikely.
        
           | jbullock35 wrote:
           | No need for a VM. I'm running Windows 10. Setup is easy if
           | you still have a drive that can read CDs: just mount the ISO
           | (for example, with ImgBurn), copy all of the files to your
           | SSD, and run AAMSSTP\APP\BSHELF96.EXE. The registry is never
           | touched, so it's a very portable installation.
           | 
           | I suppose that the ability to run this nearly-30-year-old
           | program with ease is testament to Microsoft's commitment to
           | backward compatibility. And if I wanted, I could probably run
           | it straight from the CD, as people did back in 1996.
        
         | goblinux wrote:
         | What line of work are you in where you're using this tool
         | regularly? Curious to know
        
           | jbullock35 wrote:
           | I'm a professor. I write a lot, and I use Bookshelf 1996
           | mainly for the third edition of the American Heritage
           | Dictionary, which is great. The interface is better than the
           | interface for the iOS app.
           | 
           | You can get the 4th edition for free at
           | https://ahdictionary.com, and it's good. I'm just old-
           | fashioned enough to dislike some of the changes that they
           | made between the third and fourth editions.
        
       | doublerabbit wrote:
       | How I miss MSN Messenger. They had it so right, until Skype.
        
         | shitlord wrote:
         | I have fond memories of a group chat with my internet friends,
         | complete with custom emoticons and file sharing. It might have
         | been called "Windows Live Messenger" at that point.
         | 
         | When the product was killed, I lost contact with a lot of old
         | friends who weren't online as much.
        
         | johnisgood wrote:
         | It was beautiful! My childhood's best IM, apart from IRC.
        
       | internet2000 wrote:
       | Did a google engineer write this?
        
       | TrevorFSmith wrote:
       | Ah, to have loved and lost. Such is life.
        
       | einpoklum wrote:
       | > Microsoft Comic Chat
       | 
       | I'd say teams is a rather comic implementation of chat... or,
       | hmmm, perhaps more like tragic.
        
       | ZeroGravitas wrote:
       | "Nokia" should get its own entry.
        
         | weberer wrote:
         | Microsoft only sabotaged, then bought Nokia's mobile phone
         | division. The rest of Nokia is doing fine making networking
         | equipment and various other things.
        
       | frays wrote:
       | What happened to Mixer? I remember some huge names like Ninja
       | going over to it.
        
       | RachelF wrote:
       | I miss CodePlex, there was much useful source code there, and
       | most of what I'm looking for now has not been migrated anywhere.
       | 
       | Sad.
        
       | foolfoolz wrote:
       | many of us have been in a spot where we are working on some code
       | that's out of date compared to the rest, is used by almost no
       | one, and makes no impact for the business. yet we maintain
       | because we have too. and we wish someone could be brave enough to
       | just kill it. i've been at a few jobs where i would have been
       | happy to see a graveyard like this
        
       | seanhunter wrote:
       | No mention of FoxPro? I remember going to some sort of expo and
       | winning a copy of visual FoxPro in a big box with lots of manuals
       | and all the software on floppy disks.
        
       | 300bps wrote:
       | Would like to see the product that Microsoft replaced the killed
       | product with. For example; Edge isn't dead. It just got replaced
       | by a fork of Chromium.
       | 
       | I called for them to give up on Internet Explorer and fork
       | Chromium almost 8 years ago here on HN. I'm glad they did it but
       | the one mistake is that they modified Chromium too much. I now
       | get annoying prompts to scan for coupons and other ways to save
       | money that don't actually work.
       | 
       | My comment from almost 8 years ago:
       | 
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7909383
        
       | BoumTAC wrote:
       | It's missing Atom editor, it was my favorite text editor, now
       | it's abandoned to death on github. They stop working on it the
       | day they bought Github.
       | 
       | I still remember Nat Friedman here in the comment section saying
       | he won't stop developing Atom. He didn't even keep on his promise
       | for a week.
        
         | MarcellusDrum wrote:
         | I recommend Kate by KDE. Great editor.
        
         | seanw444 wrote:
         | Atom is the only Electron app I'm a fan of. Even VS Code is
         | pretty meh in my opinion. I wish it continued to receive
         | significant updates and performance improvements, and
         | maintained a lot of the user share still. It would be awesome
         | editor. Nowadays, Emacs is a wonder. If what you want is a
         | "hackable text editor for the 21st century" then Emacs delivers
         | on that very well.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | sswaner wrote:
       | Wasn't there also a Groove that was a collaboration tool build by
       | Ray Ozzie?
        
       | ThrowawayB7 wrote:
       | Needs entries for their Natural Keyboard Pro, still the best of
       | their split keyboard implementations and the Natural Keyboard
       | 4000, which was a close runner up.
        
       | yuuta wrote:
       | Also:
       | 
       | * Windows POSIX Subsystem: WSL has similar features, but not
       | exact what the POSIX Subsystem is.
       | 
       | * Windows OS / 2 Subsystem: Killed.
       | 
       | * Multipoint Server: Killed in server 2016.
       | 
       | * Hyper-V RemoteFX
       | 
       | * WDS boot.wim deployment: Killed in server 2022 and Windows 11,
       | although MDT provides a much better solution.
       | 
       | * TFS: MS wants you to use Azure DevOps.
       | 
       | * Hyper-V Server: The free ESXi alternative. MS wants you to use
       | Azure, so it is killed with the release of server 2022.
       | 
       | * Microsoft Security Essentials: Killed in Jan. 2020, and its
       | signature updates will stop in 2023.
       | 
       | * Windows CE: Replaced by Windows IoT
       | 
       | * Aero: Such a beautiful effect. Killed in Windows 8.
        
       | virgulino wrote:
       | I really miss Microsoft Systems Journal, Microsoft Internet
       | Developer, and MSDN Magazine.
        
       | kypro wrote:
       | I miss a lot of this stuff. It's odd the emotional attachment I
       | have to software. It's almost like how pictures or smells take
       | you back to moment in time, thinking about old software does that
       | for me.
       | 
       | I used to use Zune with music pass every day. Thinking about that
       | interface now reminds me of my first job and working on startups
       | in my spare time -- probably the happiest and wildest time of my
       | life. Like most of my generation MSN Messenger was another I used
       | every day. That reminds me of school, friends and teenage
       | heartache. Windows Phone 7 was the OS of my first smart phone. It
       | reminds me specifically of being 19, sitting at my girlfriend's
       | kitchen table playing angry birds at 3am while eating a bowl of
       | cereal. Windows Media Center reminds me of the hot summer nights
       | I'd spend at my teenage girlfriend's house watching films on her
       | XP MCE computer.
        
         | johnnyanmac wrote:
         | I'm not sure I'd say I miss any of these personally. But
         | looking back with hindsight, I do see it as a shame that some
         | of these products failed.
         | 
         | - I argue Kinect was 5+ years ahead of its time and marketed
         | towards the worst possible market: gamers who want precise
         | control of their content. motion tracking software with a
         | built-in voice recognition sounds like something that could
         | have been Alexa years before Amazon every bothered.
         | 
         | - Silverlight was in many ways a better version of Flash in
         | everything except actual content delivery. But in the mid
         | 2000's with limited hardware and networking, that was one of
         | the most important steps.
         | 
         | - Mixer was a very ambitious attempt to try and create a
         | competitor to video streaming that Twitch had long dominated by
         | the time it launched. But it further seems to cement a harsh
         | reality of modern social media; at a certain critical capacity,
         | the only undoing of one has to be itself.
        
       | smitty1e wrote:
       | Immortal:
       | 
       | - SharePoint
       | 
       | - VBA
       | 
       | - Office
        
         | danielovichdk wrote:
         | BizTalk
        
       | silisili wrote:
       | Am I the only one getting a DNS error here? Tried link and www.
        
         | ctragena wrote:
        
       | h2odragon wrote:
       | the Trackball Explorer and the Sidewinder Force Feedback joystick
       | should get entries.
        
         | wkearney99 wrote:
         | MSTE is my daily-driver, I've stocked up on spares in the event
         | of failures. One had been so regularly used it's worn the paint
         | off where my palm rests on it. NOTHING comes close it's
         | excellent design (and I've got a bin FULL of pretenders-to-the-
         | throne).
        
       | ineptech wrote:
       | Not killed exactly, but I hate what they've done to Minecraft. It
       | used to be something kind of unique, a game experience that was
       | universal among kids. They paid $1.6B to gate it behind a
       | microsoft.com account and force schoolkids and school districts
       | in to the MS ecosystem.
        
         | zimpenfish wrote:
         | Plus the mob votes - stupid nonsense idea. You're the game
         | devs, dev the game. Don't ask an easily influenced bunch of
         | people (hello glow squid) for their opinions.
         | 
         | (I will concede that Caves & Cliffs is finally going in the
         | right direction but the Java client still sucks re:
         | optimisation and it'd be nice if they put some effort into that
         | instead of the PR puffs of mob votes, etc.)
        
       | ModernMech wrote:
       | Zune is on there twice. Speaking of Zune, I loved it. I know it
       | got a lot of shit for being an also ran against the iPod, but it
       | was a seriously solid media player and I found it better than the
       | iPod in many ways. Zune software was always gorgeous, had an
       | innovative subscription model (you get to keep some DRM free
       | songs every month forever, even if you cancel the sub. Wish
       | Spotify did that.) and felt innovative compared to iTunes, which
       | looked like Excel for music.
        
         | ILMostro7 wrote:
         | I wish I had kept my Dell DJ.
         | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dell_Digital_Jukebox
        
       | dustinmoris wrote:
       | I didn't realise that Internet Explorer Edge is dead?
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | fennecfoxen wrote:
       | RIP Microsoft Comic Chat. The true loss to humanity!
        
       | dpweb wrote:
       | Still like/use MS Money. Strangely the lack of updates or support
       | means nothing.
        
       | esel2k wrote:
       | Is it really that bad? I believe if there is no alternative and a
       | need then there will be a software at some point. I guess it is
       | pure economics and I personally miss none of these.
        
         | CameronNemo wrote:
         | I don't think this (or these) list(s) are aiming to shame MS
         | (or Google) for shutting down products, only to catalog and
         | preserve the history.
        
           | ILMostro7 wrote:
           | Arguably, the names of these lists imply a level of blame; or
           | at least evoke emotion from potential visitors. But, that's
           | the name of the game these days.
        
           | smt88 wrote:
           | The Google list is absolutely aiming to shame Google. They
           | break promises they made even just a few months earlier
           | (Stadia is a recent example).
           | 
           | Microsoft is a polar opposite: they kill unpopular things,
           | monetize popular things, and provide ridiculously long
           | support (and backwards compatibility).
        
             | mupuff1234 wrote:
             | Stadia is still alive afaik.
        
             | sofixa wrote:
             | What promise did Google break with Stadia?
        
       | dvtrn wrote:
       | _Encarta_
       | 
       | I clutch my heart, and weep every time I think about this.
        
       | trulyme wrote:
       | Lync is getting killed? Nice! Can we please take care of Teams
       | next?
        
       | ryan-duve wrote:
       | I like seeing the list of services, but I wish it was called
       | "Microsoft Graveyard" instead of "Killed by Microsoft". Some of
       | those wouldn't be around today regardless of the controlling
       | organization, such as Silverlight and Encarta. To me, "Killed by
       | Microsoft" makes it sound like Microsoft chose to discontinue a
       | product that otherwise would still be "alive" today.
        
         | detritus wrote:
         | This does feel like a somewhat bilious [anti-?]fanboy counter
         | to the Google Graveyard website.
        
           | 13of40 wrote:
           | I get a bit of a "This food is _so horrible_ and the portions
           | are _so small_! " vibe from it.
        
           | gundmc wrote:
           | Is the Google Graveyard not itself bilious?
        
         | Thorrez wrote:
         | The HTML <title>, site header, and domain are all clearly made
         | to parallel https://killedbygoogle.com/
         | 
         | The only difference is .info vs .com .
        
         | _3u10 wrote:
         | MS Graveyard is exactly how they'd name it too lol. Well done.
         | 
         | *Microsoft Active Azure Graveyard for Products - Enterprise
         | Edition 2022 .Net
        
         | Mindless2112 wrote:
         | It isn't even fair to say that some of these products are dead.
         | For example, you can still use Microsoft Streets & Trips today,
         | as it's from an era when you bought (rather than rented)
         | software. It's just not getting any more updates, so its
         | usefulness diminishes as the road network changes.
        
           | rvba wrote:
           | Microaoft Edge continues too, it just switched technology
        
             | jchw wrote:
             | EdgeHTML really _is_ dead, however, and that has
             | significance considering it was an independent browser
             | engine (also, one that applications could embed)
        
               | sedatk wrote:
               | Edge is still IE11 compatible[1] and still provides an
               | embeddable component (WebView2)[2].
               | 
               | [1] https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/deployedge/edge-ie-
               | mode
               | 
               | [2] https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-
               | edge/webview2/
        
               | jchw wrote:
               | That doesn't really change the fact that what was called
               | EdgeHTML is gone and it was replaced by a program that
               | has an _entirely_ different lineage, API, user interface,
               | feature set... I am definitely aware of WebView2, I even
               | maintain bindings for it for Go!
        
         | karaterobot wrote:
         | Yeah, there should be a KilledByApple website that includes
         | Zune.
        
           | maire wrote:
           | Your point is well taken. Apple got a few good blows back at
           | Microsoft.
           | 
           | When I first saw the title "Killed by Microsoft" I thought it
           | was a list of products from other companies that Microsoft
           | killed - not products from Microsoft that Microsoft ended.
           | 
           | "Microsoft Graveyard" is a better name given Microsoft's
           | history of killing other companies and their products. Or
           | make the list really products that Microsoft killed. That
           | would be a much longer list.
        
       | cm2187 wrote:
       | Add to the list:
       | 
       | VSTA (visual studio tools for application). C#/VB.net integrated
       | IDE which was meant to run in parallel to VBA (and I think
       | ultimately replace it).
       | 
       | Microsoft Solver Foundation: an abstraction over in house and
       | commercial solvers (Google OR Tools is a neat similar effort by
       | the way)
        
       | blablabla123 wrote:
       | I like how they had all this software with a lot of entertainment
       | value. Probably the list could be made much longer, e.g. there
       | used to be Microsoft Dangerous Creatures and 3D Pinball
        
       | px43 wrote:
       | Things _NOT_ killed by Microsoft:
       | 
       | Clear text passwords collected and stored in LSASS.EXE long term.
       | 
       | SMBv1
       | 
       | Machines spraying their local user's password hashes all around
       | the network constantly.
       | 
       | LLMNR
       | 
       | Symmetric (password based) authentication.
       | 
       | SPNs with Domain Admin privileges whose password hashes can be
       | queried by any user at any time.
       | 
       | Full mappings of every user, machine, privileged level,
       | authentication metadata, and active sessions available to any
       | user on the network who feels like asking.
       | 
       | Office macros that read/write to the file system and execute
       | shell commands.
       | 
       | Javascript files that can execute malicious shell commands when
       | you try to read them.
       | 
       | DLL hijacking
       | 
       | Very weakly hashed passwords (NTLM) in the domain controller.
        
       | __s wrote:
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ILoo
       | 
       | ??
        
       | can16358p wrote:
       | I really miss Windows Phone. It was a great alternative to iOS
       | and Android and I used it for years (Omnia 7, then Lumia 920)
       | until I switched to iPhone as WP was into inevitable demise by
       | Microsoft.
       | 
       | The interface was beautiful, smooth, modern looking. Whoever
       | designed WP (and Zune) probably deserves a much better place than
       | Microsoft as they were just too good.
       | 
       | I love Apple's design aesthetics in many ways, but still
       | sometimes miss Windows Phone and it's tiles layout and its unique
       | haptic feedback feeling. Not to mention that keyboard was more
       | responsive than iOS too. (iOS is okay, still better than Android,
       | but WP was the best in keyboard for me)
       | 
       | I also developed for WP too, which had a nice SDK though it was
       | too limited. Of course it could expand much more by time. For me
       | personally, using my favorite IDE (Visual Studio) at the time
       | with my favorite language (C#) with XAML syntax was lovely.
       | 
       | Sad to see great potential dead.
        
       | ratsmack wrote:
       | That list looks like mostly like Former Microsoft products. What
       | about all of the great products that were absorbed and dismantled
       | by Microsoft, like the fantastic visual database called Formbase.
        
       | paskozdilar wrote:
       | I was gifted a Nokia Lumia 640 when it just came out. It was a
       | nice phone, it had good hardware, it was fast and worked
       | smoothly. It had all the applications I needed and honestly
       | thought that it was gonna take over Android, given Nokia's
       | reputation and popularity of Windows.
       | 
       | Then Microsoft forced a Windows 10 update on it, and everything
       | slowed down to a halt. Camera application was running at ~5fps
       | max. Applications started crashing.
       | 
       | Then Microsoft pulled the support for the phone completely, and
       | one by one, applications stopped working altogether, until all I
       | had was a dumb phone with a crappy camera and a crappy web
       | browser.
       | 
       | It's a shame, really. If they had made it an open platform and
       | allowed users to install Linux, I believe it would have taken
       | over the world.
        
         | cf100clunk wrote:
         | Some background reading on Nokia's demise under Microsoft:
         | 
         | https://mobilesyrup.com/2014/08/14/ex-nokia-exec-tomi-ahonen...
         | 
         | There are great links at the bottom of that page to Tomi
         | Ahonen's exhaustive coverage of Microsoft's destruction of
         | Nokia's lucrative, profitable business model.
        
           | megablast wrote:
           | Nokia was on its way down before Microsoft cane along.
           | 
           | They prioritised hardware over software. Maintained multiple
           | OS's. Made lots of stupid derisions.
        
         | julianlam wrote:
         | > If they had made it an open platform and allowed users to
         | install Linux, I believe it would have taken over the world.
         | 
         | Didn't they, though? With Maemo and later Meego (though maybe I
         | have that swapped)?
         | 
         | As it turns out the developer power just isn't there.
         | 
         | That's not to say that that wouldn't be the case now, but at
         | least back then, it wasn't able to survive.
         | 
         | I was so incredibly excited for my Nokia N900, but at the end
         | of the day it was not a phone running Linux, but a buggy OS
         | with a buggy phone app.
        
           | harry8 wrote:
           | Wut? N900 was the best, most reliable, highest quality and
           | most polished phone I have ever owned. It's not even close.
           | How they f.ed that up is beyond me.
        
             | Beltalowda wrote:
             | The big problem was just app support. Everyone was writing
             | apps for Android and iOS and maybe Windows or Symbian, but
             | that was about it. Since many of these apps aren't
             | something you can re-create yourself (WhatsApp, banking
             | apps, whatnot) so that hugely diminished its usefulness,
             | especially since this is when everyone and their mother was
             | using WhatsApp, which never made a Maemo app.
             | 
             | This problem is even worse now. We're back where we started
             | in ~2000 with Windows.
        
               | harry8 wrote:
               | People write apps for platforms with the largest market
               | shares, apple & droid. Not news. N900 never got the
               | support to get market share. It could have though, the
               | quality was there and they had a huge selling point. If
               | it did the world would be a better place with better
               | software on your phone and less spyware. Not what we got
               | though, huh? We got Apple and Google in the race to who
               | can smash the userbase harder with no meaningful
               | alternative and fringe phones trying to catch up to where
               | the 900 comfortably was a decade ago. Apple and Goog are
               | both looking at each other and thinking "You guys doing
               | that and actually getting away with it? Amazing! Well
               | we'll just go even further!" And the only place where
               | customers rights or welfare is ever even remotely served
               | is where it happens to align with smashing a competitor
               | and is absolutely incidental to their strategy beyond
               | some marketing. It's nuts. The N900 was better in every
               | single way, polish, stability everything. Got smashed by
               | executive decision. You could build conspiracy theories
               | around it if we didn't have such a rich history of total
               | and complete incompetence to draw on and be a more likely
               | explanation.
        
             | zokier wrote:
             | N900 was really cool device in many ways, but polished or
             | reliable it definitely was not; when I had one, I tended to
             | carry a feature phone along with it because N900 was so
             | ridiculously buggy and unreliable.
        
           | [deleted]
        
         | zozbot234 wrote:
         | AIUI, you _can_ physically install Linux on the Lumia phones,
         | they 're not locked down in any way. It's a matter of hardware
         | support.
        
       | penteston wrote:
       | https://killedbygoogle.com/
        
       | emrahcom wrote:
       | FoxPro
        
       | entropie wrote:
       | Is there a similar list for google?
       | 
       | I dont know most of this entries in the list, but I can name like
       | 5 things google has "killed" that I actually liked. Iam still
       | pissed they buried reader.
        
         | mdoms wrote:
         | RIP Google Inbox.
        
           | seanw444 wrote:
           | I definitely miss Inbox. I still to this day type in
           | inbox.google.com to go to Gmail, even though it simply
           | redirects me to mail.google.com. Just a habit.
        
         | ro_bit wrote:
         | https://killedbygoogle.com/
        
           | philwelch wrote:
           | From what I've heard, Google's product life cycle is
           | basically:
           | 
           | 1. Google launches a new product, which gets promotions for
           | everyone involved because launching new products is what the
           | review and promotions process is optimized for.
           | 
           | 2. Nobody maintains the product because that's not how you
           | get promoted.
           | 
           | 3. The product is discontinued.
           | 
           | Sometimes they'll have similar products that do similar
           | things replace each other. So I wonder if anyone at Google
           | secretly uses this site as a source of ideas for new products
           | to try and launch.
        
           | entropie wrote:
           | It was so easy that I could have thought of it myself.
           | Thanks.
        
             | rvba wrote:
             | The "killed by microsoft" site looks like a rip off of the
             | well known "killed by google" site. Id day that they really
             | try to push fake controversy and extend the list e.g.
             | Microsoft Edge just switched its technology and still
             | exists.
        
               | Dylan16807 wrote:
               | > Microsoft Edge just switched its technology and still
               | exists.
               | 
               | "Just" is a severe understatement, especially because
               | they switched to the monoculture.
        
               | Marcus10110 wrote:
               | It's not just a rip-off, it's build directly on top of
               | the killedbygoogle repository!
               | 
               | https://github.com/fabianoriccardi/killed-by-microsoft is
               | not a fork, but it has many of the commits from
               | https://github.com/codyogden/killedbygoogle
               | 
               | The earliest commits from fabianoriccardi include git
               | messages like: > replacing "Google" with "Microsoft",
               | removed PressCoverage
               | 
               | Anyway, great code recycling at least right? It's a fun
               | thought that the author of killedbygoogle ultimately
               | wrote most of the code on killed-by-microsoft.
               | 
               | Contributor summary:
               | https://github.com/fabianoriccardi/killed-by-
               | microsoft/graph... https://github.com/codyogden/killedbyg
               | oogle/graphs/contribut...
        
       | paulpauper wrote:
       | but is anyone really mourning the loss of Bob?
        
       | mattkevan wrote:
       | I didn't think Microsoft killed things.
       | 
       | Maybe they've changed, but their strategy seemed to be to take
       | something already dead, give it a jolt and Weekend at Bernie's it
       | under a new name until it starts to smell, then give it a jolt...
       | 
       | E.g. , plays for sure, Zune Music, Groove music, Xbox music. Also
       | Communicator, Lync, Skype, Teams etc.
        
         | ntkachov wrote:
         | Ya, it seems less that they killed it, and more so they just
         | rebranded or released a successor product. Microsoft mobile
         | wasn't killed, it was replaced by windows phone.
        
           | robertlagrant wrote:
           | Replace is just euphemism there. Nothing about Windows Mobile
           | was in Windows Phone (which was also killed).
        
       | gjsman-1000 wrote:
       | Good list - but I don't think Windows 10 IoT Core is dead. It's
       | been renamed to just Windows IoT Core, but otherwise it is still
       | quite available.
        
         | lstamour wrote:
         | I had to object to a few of these too. If you need an Office
         | viewer, you can just download the office apps - unlicensed,
         | e.g. on an iPad, you can read office files just fine.
         | 
         | Microsoft Edge is better than ever. They killed the last
         | vestiges of Trident, and good riddance. And... they didn't even
         | kill that if you consider IE mode will survive for at least
         | another decade, and no announcements have been made about the
         | underlying code in Windows which will probably survive as long
         | as COM and Win32.
         | 
         | Also, Microsoft Reader originally was for ebooks, it was
         | released initially in Aug 2000. I remember it being one of the
         | few ebook reader apps before Kindle was more commonly
         | available.
         | 
         | And Microsoft Expression was created from existing software:
         | Frontpage, Visual Studio, Creature House and iView Media all
         | contributed to the original products. They were discontinued
         | after a deal with Adobe to sell apps on the Microsoft Store, if
         | I recall correctly. It wouldn't surprise me if Microsoft asked
         | Adobe to not make cross-platform app-building tools (e.g. Flash
         | RIA and Flex - last released in 2012 at about the same time) in
         | exchange for Microsoft not making creative tools. Both were
         | feeling threatened by the other.
        
       | sydthrowaway wrote:
       | OneNote not being able to use local files is annoying as hell.
        
       | axpy906 wrote:
       | I had no idea Edge got discontinued.
        
         | majewsky wrote:
         | This is about Edge with its own engine, not Edgium.
        
       | hamiltonians wrote:
       | Shouldn't the Zune store, software, and Zune phone be combined as
       | one failure?
        
       | macintux wrote:
       | The only Microsoft software I've ever really enjoyed using:
       | Musical Instruments (https://archive.org/details/microsoft-
       | musical-instruments).
       | 
       | I never owned it, but the Children's Museum in Indianapolis used
       | to have a copy running at a kiosk.
       | 
       | I believe it was absorbed into Encarta.
        
       | The_rationalist wrote:
       | How did microsoft academic compare to researchgate/google
       | scholar?? Very sad I only hear about it now... I mean it's so
       | absurd that people care enough to build websites like killed by
       | microsoft and killed by google but yet no one built a alive by
       | microsoft and alive by google. Where can I find an exhaustive and
       | succinct/bullshit free timeline of their products launches +
       | short, to the point description?
        
         | user_7832 wrote:
         | Microsoft academic was imo much better. Instead of just
         | entering words into a text field, you also had tags like
         | biology or chemistry that you could include or exclude. Sure
         | you can manually do that even now with say Scopus but the ML
         | stuff was really handy. Google scholar doesn't have any such
         | tags or topics fields unfortunately.
        
         | weberer wrote:
         | https://about.google/intl/ALL_us/products/#all-products
        
       | skissane wrote:
       | So many discontinued Microsoft products not listed: Xenix,
       | Microsoft OS/2, Multiplan, Microsoft COBOL, Microsoft
       | Fortran/PowerStation, Microsoft Pascal/QuickPascal, the classic
       | Microsoft Basic line (BASIC/BASICA/GW-
       | BASIC/QuickBASIC/QBASIC/PDS/VBDOS), MS-DOS, MSX-DOS, Microsoft
       | Adventure, Microsoft Decathlon, Z-80 SoftCard, Microsoft Delta
       | (the version control system), Windows NT OS/2 subsystem,
       | Presentation Manager for Windows NT (an add-on which allowed you
       | to run OS/2 1.x GUI programs on Windows NT), FoxPro, Visual
       | FoxPro, Visual Test, Microsoft File (the classic MacOS database
       | app), Microsoft Mail/Schedule+, Microsoft LAN Manager, Microsoft
       | Services for Netware, Visual J++, Visual J#, Microsoft Money,
       | Microsoft LISP (actually reselling muLISP, which Microsoft
       | earlier had sold under its own name), InfoPath, Entourage,
       | FrontPage, Vizact, Object Packager
       | 
       | One ambiguity in all this is what counts as a "product". There
       | have been a lot of things which have disappeared over the years -
       | such as apps bundled with Windows 3.x which have disappeared in
       | newer versions (for example, Reversi or Cardfile) - but which
       | were never sold as independent products, do they count? And what
       | about stuff which is discontinued but has an upwardly compatible
       | replacement - Visual C++ is the successor to the Microsoft C/C++
       | line going back to the 1980s, in a somewhat similar way VB.NET is
       | successor to the Microsoft BASIC line going back to the 1970s.
       | Microsoft Mail was replaced by Exchange/Outlook, etc. Xenix, OS/2
       | and LAN Manager were effectively replaced by Windows NT, the
       | POSIX/Interix/SFU/SUA subsystem was effectively replaced by WSL.
       | There are also products Microsoft sold on behalf of third
       | companies, whether rebranded or under their original names (I
       | mentioned muLISP; muMATH and R:Base are other examples)
        
         | whoisthemachine wrote:
         | Microsoft, contrary to the name, writes a lot of software!
        
           | ______-_-______ wrote:
           | Maybe "Micro" refers to the support window
        
           | stjohnswarts wrote:
           | Macrosoft aquisition may be in their future
        
         | TedDoesntTalk wrote:
         | Nice list! You forgot Microsoft hardware, too. Do they still
         | make webcams? The Z-80 soft card?
         | 
         | And what about the software they made for the Apple 2e?
        
           | skissane wrote:
           | I did mention one hardware product in my list - Z-80 SoftCard
           | (expansion card for Apple IIs which had an embedded Z80 CPU
           | so they could run CP/M software)
           | 
           | Yes they still sell webcams: https://www.microsoft.com/en-
           | ww/accessories/products/webcams...
           | 
           | I don't think Microsoft had many _software_ products for
           | Apple IIs. A large part of the point of the Z-80 SoftCard was
           | that then their CP /M 8080/Z80 product line would run on
           | Apple IIs, without having to rewrite it for the 6502 CPU. The
           | most notable Microsoft product for Apple IIs was Applesoft
           | BASIC, which was a version of Microsoft BASIC shipped by
           | Apple in the Apple II ROMs (and modified by Apple employees).
           | In terms of Apple II packages Microsoft sold directly, only
           | ones I know of are TASC (The AppleSoft Compiler), a compiler
           | for Applesoft BASIC; and Multiplan.
           | 
           | They wrote more software for the Mac - first version of Excel
           | was released for the Mac in 1985, first Windows version did
           | not come out until 1987 - Excel for Windows 2.x came with a
           | bundled version of Windows 2.x - prior to Excel, Microsoft's
           | spreadsheet offering on DOS was Multiplan. Multiplan ran on a
           | p-code virtual machine-inspired by UCSD Pascal, but using C
           | rather than Pascal as the programming language (or at least
           | later versions did, maybe some early versions actually were
           | written in Pascal)-which made it easy to port to myriad
           | platforms, including CP/M, Apple II, MS-DOS, Commodore 64,
           | Xenix, UNIX, among others. (Multiplan also ran on Mac, on
           | which platform it was a GUI rather than text-mode product;
           | given that, I'm suspecting Multiplan on Mac was a quite
           | different code base from Multiplan on other platforms.)
        
             | TedDoesntTalk wrote:
             | There were at least two video games published by Microsoft
             | for the Apple 2 series: Microsoft Decathalon, Microsoft
             | Adventure, maybe others.
        
           | MikusR wrote:
           | Announced last week.
           | https://www.theverge.com/2022/3/22/22990673/microsoft-
           | surfac...
        
         | pc86 wrote:
         | How many of these would there even be a market for? Some of
         | these are _games_ from the 70 's and 80's.
        
           | zuminator wrote:
           | Even so, if they included the dubious "Iloo," there should be
           | at least be room for the once fairly popular Microsoft Money
           | on that list.
        
           | skissane wrote:
           | > How many of these would there even be a market for?
           | 
           | True, but you can make the same point about much of the more
           | recent software/services on this page - there probably isn't
           | much market for them either. (Surely, if they'd succeeded in
           | the market, Microsoft would not have killed them, so the fact
           | Microsoft killed them is evidence of their market failure.)
        
       | campl3r wrote:
       | I miss windows phone
        
       | Kuinox wrote:
       | Contrary to Google, Microsoft often provide a migration path to
       | another of their service covering the same usecases.
       | 
       | Examples:
       | 
       | Skype For Business => Teams.
       | 
       | Microsoft Edge => Chromium Edge.
       | 
       | Windows 10 IoT Core => It's not dead ???
       | 
       | Office Viewer => Web Based Office
       | 
       | Kinect => It's not dead ???
       | 
       | Microsoft Anti-Virus for Windows => Windows Defender
       | 
       | Come on, microsoft has big flaws but backward compat/keeping old
       | product alive is where they are one of the best in the industry.
        
         | kerng wrote:
         | Agreed. Microsoft is really good at back compatibility -
         | sometimes even to a fault.
         | 
         | It also seems Microsoft sometimes is held to a higher standard
         | when it comes to supporting products long after they are out of
         | service.
         | 
         | Compare that to Google and Android for instance... it's a big
         | mess with millions of outdated and insecure devices.
        
           | lern_too_spel wrote:
           | Google only sold Nexuses and Pixels, which compare favorably
           | to the Kin phones.
        
         | SomeBoolshit wrote:
         | There was also MSN messenger, which was more capable than Skype
         | other than the connection to the actual telephone network
         | (having messages be delivered later without requiring both
         | people to be online at the same time - amazing!) and when Teams
         | replaced Skype, even more features were dropped. What part of
         | that is positive other than "well, you can still do _some_ of
         | the things but we prefer to give you an inferior product ".
        
           | kungito wrote:
           | Lets be honest, no Microsoft messaging platform had a chance
           | to be a 2022 whatsapp/messenger competitor. They were smart
           | to realise that and focused on their Slack alternative for
           | businesses which they can package with the rest of Office
           | package. And with the new EU regulation on the way it makes
           | even less sense
        
         | passivate wrote:
         | Also, if you have access to the executable then you can use it
         | indefinitely (with obvious caveats).
        
         | mnd999 wrote:
         | Teams is unbelievably shit though. It's like they don't even
         | care.
        
           | zapnuk wrote:
           | Yes! Teams is by far the worst "popular" software i've ever
           | used.
           | 
           | It's so bad that eventhough most businesses depend on teams,
           | they, as well as everyone else, would be better off if teams
           | suddenly disappears from one day to another.
           | 
           | edit: Just a few things that annoy me basically on a daily
           | basis:
           | 
           | - The status isn't always up to date. Sometimes it takes
           | minutes to you or your contacts to show the correct status.
           | 
           | - It is (unsupprisingly) not very responsive
           | 
           | - It hogs my CPU when its idle and especially during video
           | calls. So much so that the fans of my 2020 MBP start spinning
           | up - which otherwise only happens when I run a build/tests.
           | This is especcially bad considering all other video call
           | software (zoom, discord) run just fine.
           | 
           | - The UX is terrible when you are active in different
           | organizations. It's riddled with bugs. Every time I switch
           | organizations I have to type in my password twice because for
           | some reason the login session expires instantaniously. If I
           | switch back an forth sometimes some functionality like shring
           | screen or accepting calls just stops working and I have to
           | restart teams.
           | 
           | - It tries to include the formatting if you copy+paste in
           | chat. It always looks bad and sometime is ittetating because
           | the font size is way smaller.
           | 
           | - Cameras or shared desktops regularily freeze
           | 
           | - You cant set the audio level of individual participants.
           | This is especiallly annoying if you're in the same room as
           | other participants of larger meetings since you'd then head
           | them twice.
           | 
           | - Because of the messy permission system between multiple
           | organizations it's often not clear wether or not you can
           | certain contacts of are allowed to use the chat in meetings.
        
             | rr808 wrote:
             | Still better than Skype though.
        
             | bastardoperator wrote:
             | The login experience is the worst of any app I've used.
             | Stop asking me every day to login, and god help you if
             | you're in multiple orgs. I pretty much do the web app at
             | this point. Thankfully my org mostly uses zoom and slack,
             | but customers on teams refuse to experience normalcy and
             | demand everyone experience their pain, same with webex,
             | come on people...
        
           | EvanAnderson wrote:
           | The sysadmin experience on Windows is hot garbage, too. I
           | assume the people writing it have had less than no experience
           | dealing with deploying software to fleets of PCs, hot-
           | desking, VDI, RDP farms, etc. It's ridiculously inefficient.
        
             | B1FF_PSUVM wrote:
             | > It's ridiculously inefficient.
             | 
             | You mean that simple tasks take many billable hours?
             | 
             | Hmmm ...
        
               | EvanAnderson wrote:
               | Irresponsible use of disk space, CPU cycles, and network
               | bandwidth is more what I'm referring to. I've scripted
               | some cleanup of profiles to take care of disk space
               | exhaustion in a couple of situations. Cleaning up after
               | Teams hasn't been a revenue generator for me, but it has
               | created complaints. Anything that causes me to receive
               | complaints from users draws my ire. (I subscribe to the
               | "sewer system" theory of sysadmin for end-user facing
               | servers, desktops, etc. You never think about your
               | municipal sewer system unless it has problems. Ideally
               | that's never. User-facing IT infrastructure should be the
               | same.)
        
           | philwelch wrote:
           | Slack is much better as a corporate chat app, but I'm not
           | sure that's necessarily good in the broader picture because
           | I'm not sure you want to maximize chat engagement in a
           | corporate setting. There are weird cultural effects to that,
           | and paradoxically having a shittier app for that might get
           | you the benefits of being able to chat with your coworkers
           | and ask them questions without the weird social effects.
        
             | Andys wrote:
             | and if the team consists of remote workers?
        
           | jimmaswell wrote:
           | Teams is in the realm of software forced on an entire company
           | by clueless executives who are easily swayed by sales conmen
           | on complimentary golf/ski trips, so they don't have to
           | actually care about making it a good experience - a
           | perfunctory checklist of barely-functional features that look
           | good on a powerpoint is sufficient.
        
           | bayindirh wrote:
           | For what it's worth, Teams feel like it's haphazardly glued
           | together from what's laying around, esp. in Linux.
           | 
           | Why restart the application if it cannot connect to the
           | internet? Why can't I have native notifications? Why iOS
           | app's notifications are unreliable?
           | 
           | I really can't believe the quality of this thing. While I
           | don't like Microsoft, I agree that they can write semi-decent
           | software. Teams is not one of them.
        
           | iratewizard wrote:
           | I can't name a single messenger with worse user experience.
        
             | coolspot wrote:
             | Try Skype?
        
               | jhasse wrote:
               | After Microsoft took over, yes.
        
           | Keyframe wrote:
           | Chat/teams itself yeah, compared to slack; and it's
           | mostly/only UI related. Video and audio is leagues above
           | however, and recordings integrated with Stream works like a
           | charm. It's unbelievable how shitty audio and video is in
           | slack however. If microsoft got its UI/UX game, it's easier
           | to get that right than the other way around.
        
             | spockz wrote:
             | Have you tried other tools? Discord, zoom, webex have way
             | better audio and video quality and include video sharing.
             | FaceTime has superb audio and video but no screen sharing.
        
           | creativenolo wrote:
           | What about Teams makes you think that?
           | 
           | My experience has been the opposite. But that could have just
           | been that it fitted our setup well. Or that I haven't tried
           | better.
        
             | floucky wrote:
             | Copy/Paste code often doesn't work for me, especially SQL.
             | There is a dedicated component to do that, but that's not
             | convenient at all.
        
               | Siira wrote:
               | https://paste.gnugen.ch/paste/E2o9
        
         | Thorrez wrote:
         | https://killedbygoogle.com/ contains Nexus. That was clearly
         | replaced by Pixel.
         | 
         | Disclosure: I work at Google, but not on anything related to
         | this.
        
         | salmo wrote:
         | Came to say the same. The vast majority of these were
         | superseded by new products or their feature set was absorbed by
         | other tooling. Back office was one of the worst examples. It
         | became baked into Windows Server except Exchange.
         | 
         | I'm no fan of MS, but they tend to err on the side of
         | overextending support and backwards compatibility. I would have
         | killed Works 10 years before they did.
         | 
         | And some of these are just failures. I still have my MS Bob
         | floppies, but come on.
        
           | AstroJetson wrote:
           | I liked Works. It ran on much less hardware than the Office
           | Suite did. The much lower cost was a big deal too. The
           | reduced feature set was never a big deal, it's not often that
           | I need to put reverse video blink in a Word doc to be
           | printed.
        
             | mbreese wrote:
             | It was probably too much overhead to support Works. You'd
             | still need an engineering team to support Works, and it
             | wasn't a big money maker. Much better to put some Office
             | features behind a compiler/licensing flag and support one
             | product with different "home" and "professional" SKUs.
             | 
             | But I kinda wonder the same thing about Apple's
             | Pages/Numbers/Keynote. I'm not sure the overhead to
             | maintain those ultimately is worthwhile. It makes me think
             | back on the old ClarisWorks or FileMaker setup where you
             | ostensibly had an external company that made the product,
             | but it was an Apple subsidiary. They could then offer the
             | product for multiple OS's. I'm not saying that business
             | model was all that successful, but is there a place for an
             | MS works in the time of Google docs?
        
             | blagie wrote:
             | LibreOffice >> Works.
             | 
             | Just sayin'
        
         | r3trohack3r wrote:
         | My oldest kid is just aging into gaming. We've got the
         | Disneyland Adventures game and a Kinect for her.
         | 
         | Can confirm, Kinect is dead. You can only get them refurbished
         | now, they're no longer manufactured. The new consoles no longer
         | support Kinect, we had to dig out an original Xbox One for her.
         | 
         | When the Kinect launched, Microsoft had trouble getting a
         | critical mass of players that would attract developers. Without
         | developers adding support to their games, Microsoft had a hard
         | time marketing the device. This led to them bundling it with
         | the Xbox One, but consumers were upset that they were being
         | forced to buy the accessory.
         | 
         | I'm impressed they held out as long as they did, but eventually
         | Microsoft caved and removed the Kinect from the bundle and
         | dropped the price of the Xbox One. At that point, the Kinect
         | was essentially dead. They quietly stopped manufacturing them
         | and the new consoles no longer support them (though I've heard
         | rumors you can buy 3rd party USB adaptors).
         | 
         | It's a shame. That device is SO much more engaging and
         | approachable for kids than trying to teach them to use a
         | controller.
        
           | bluescrn wrote:
           | > When the Kinect launched, Microsoft had trouble getting a
           | critical mass of players that would attract developers
           | 
           | Developers generally disliked it. It just didn't work well as
           | a game controller.
           | 
           | The Wii was much more practical. You still had a controller
           | in your hand with physical buttons, which makes a big
           | difference, and it worked as a fairly accurate pointing
           | device. Those more than made up for the limitations of
           | accelerometer-only motion control.
        
           | ascar wrote:
           | > That device is SO much more engaging and approachable for
           | kids than trying to teach them to use a controller.
           | 
           | I dunno. I had the original kinect for the Xbox 360 and the
           | controls were wonky. A controller might be weird for a few
           | hours but especially kids should be able to pick it up
           | quickly and then it does exactly what you input, unlike the
           | Kinect. However, I have watched multiple girlfriends struggle
           | with 3D controller input so maybe it's just not for everyone
           | and has nothing to do with kids?
        
         | taspeotis wrote:
         | Yeah like:
         | 
         | > Skype for Business Expiring in over 3 years, Skype for
         | Business (formerly Microsoft Lync and Office Communicator) was
         | an enterprise instant messaging software developed by Microsoft
         | as part of the Microsoft Office suite. It was almost 18 years
         | old.
         | 
         | It's still around because of a lengthy transition path
         | Microsoft offers and they admit that and then start talking
         | about it in the past tense...
        
           | andylynch wrote:
           | Parts are older still. The group chat in later versions of
           | Skype for Business originated at UBS in the nineties by way
           | of Mindalign.
        
           | Fissionary wrote:
           | It's kinda sad that they're killing SfB.
           | 
           | Behind the scenes, it uses SIP and SDP for establishing calls
           | - back in the day at $BigCo, we were developing a software
           | suite for debugging SIP infrastructure, and Skype for
           | Business was surprisingly easy to integrate. Shame that Teams
           | switched to a proprietary Microsoft protocol now.
        
             | simfree wrote:
             | Trouter (Microsoft Teams routing software for video calls
             | and voice calls) crashes and fails to parse SDPs every day,
             | even from Teams clients. I swear it is the least reliable
             | session border controller we interact with, every 2 weeks a
             | new software version is rolled out and new things break
             | while tickets about bugs we filed with Microsoft continue
             | to go ignored.
        
         | johnnyanmac wrote:
         | >Kinect => It's not dead ???
         | 
         | Is it alive? It very much has an immensely passionate community
         | of students and hobbyists using it in ways well past its
         | intended use (e.g. it's some of the cheapest mocap hardware you
         | can buy). But I don't think you've been able to officially
         | purchase one for 4+ years now. Hard to call that "alive" in a
         | business sense.
         | 
         | Honestly a real shame that Xbox hasn't pivoted it into some
         | other team that can market it towards creators. In particular
         | the whole "VTuber" phenomenon may benefit form a cheap(ish),
         | dedicated motion tracking device instead of relying on a high
         | end iPhone or fanagling with some generic webcam.
        
           | jannes wrote:
           | There are still games coming out with Kinect support (Just
           | Dance 2022)
        
           | ______-_-______ wrote:
           | I'd call it dead I guess, but I don't see why that's a
           | problem. It's a physical product, you can't keep
           | manufacturing those forever. They supported it until the next
           | generation of consoles came out. Would it be fair to make a
           | site called "Killed by Nintendo" and list the Game Boy and
           | Wii?
        
           | seanmcdirmid wrote:
           | There isn't much money in selling to creators? And the niche
           | the Kinect had with active gaming has been reliably filled by
           | Meta/Facebook/oculus's quest, it's too bad Microsoft didn't
           | explore that more deeply.
        
             | johnnyanmac wrote:
             | Likely not, not in its current form. I wouldn't be
             | surprised if in 2010 that Kinect was being sold at a
             | significant loss (as is the usual trend in the games
             | industry). They'd need to tweak the device quite a bit to
             | be B2B, but given the success of game engines, asset packs,
             | and other tools I don't think it's impossible.
             | 
             | Creators will absolutely pay a premium for such tech when
             | the alternative goes for thousands of dollars (a quick
             | google shows these devices selling on the order of 2000 to
             | 7000+ USD). The SDK alone would generate much more value
             | for such a product.
             | 
             | VR definitely killed any interest in the "core" gaming
             | market, but I think the uses of motion tracking is a
             | completely separate audience from VR anyway. Without some
             | dedicated apparel, a VR kit can only track your eyes and
             | hands. motion tracking gives you so much more data to work
             | with, for potentially multiple subjects as well. People
             | working with that data will easily pay themselves back with
             | whatever they develop with it, which is why maybe a
             | licensing deal (similar to Unity/Unreal Engine) may be a
             | better way to monetize .
        
         | antaviana wrote:
         | I remember reading in Steve Jobs biography that when Larry Page
         | became CEO of Google for the second time he reached out to
         | other CEOs in the industry for advice on being a CEO. Jobs
         | advice was to get rid of all the myriad of products and only
         | focus on 3 or 4 key things. If I'm not wrong, spring pruning
         | started with Page as a CEO.
        
         | shireboy wrote:
         | Came here to make this point. Also, killing off products is not
         | unhealthy. I for one am glad that eventually someone had the
         | sense to kill off Bob. Sometimes- like for devs invested in
         | Silverlight- it can be frustrating, but no reason to keep
         | inferior or outdated products afloat.
        
           | neon_electro wrote:
           | I came away with the same conclusion reading this and the
           | Google sites, but I do feel like these sites nonetheless do a
           | public service aggregating and organizing this kind of
           | information, even if it feels pointed at MS/Google
           | specifically.
        
           | adzm wrote:
           | I wish more things like Silverlight were open sourced for the
           | community at EOL.
        
             | shireboy wrote:
             | There is https://www.opensilver.net/ Not sure if any is MS
             | contributed. And I'm not sure I can recommend it as an
             | approach. I never quite bought into XAML over HTML/CSS/JS.
             | I've done both, and just would rather build a web app than
             | XAML for most of the type things I build.
        
           | ripley12 wrote:
           | Yeah, sometimes I wish MS would be a little more aggressive
           | about killing off products. There are a few developer
           | technologies that are in an awkward no man's land: just
           | barely supported without much of a future, but MS won't _say_
           | that so it makes for a lot of confusion if you're new to the
           | space and wondering what technology to use.
        
           | nerdponx wrote:
           | I am still salty about how badly they ruined Skype, though.
        
             | mickotron wrote:
             | Skype was amazing until it was acquired.
             | 
             | Would Zoom even exist today if Microsoft never bought
             | Skype?
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | bscphil wrote:
         | > Contrary to Google
         | 
         | Don't know that I really agree with this. Google does have
         | experimental services and tools that they've killed (RIP Google
         | Reader), but they _have_ always provided migration for their
         | core services. Look at Messaging, for example. Gmail chat - >
         | Hangouts -> Hangouts Chat(?) -> Allo(??) -> Hangouts (again?)
         | -> Android Messages.
         | 
         | The problem is not that they leave users completely stranded,
         | the unending shift from app to app for no good reason is
         | _itself_ the problem.
         | 
         | And to be clear I do think Google is worse _at this_ than
         | Microsoft is. But the important difference isn 't over whether
         | they provide a migration path. Forcing your users to migrate
         | every year or two is bad, regardless of whether the migration
         | is handled "well".
        
           | DoctorOW wrote:
           | I feel like your example disproves more than it proves. The
           | difference between Micrsoft Edge and Edge Chromium was that
           | one day you launched the browser and it looked/worked a
           | little different. Using Google for chat on the other hand is
           | still extremely difficult because there is no clear path (as
           | indicated by all your question marks) who is to migrate where
           | and when they're supposed to do it.
        
             | joshuamorton wrote:
             | This isnt really true though. For the main use case (IM and
             | VC), Gchat -> hangouts -> chat/meet is pretty
             | straightforward. Heck most people probably didn't notice
             | the migration happening!
        
           | blagie wrote:
           | Nope. I've been left stranded by Google over and over.
           | 
           | Talk to all the happy GSuite/Free users around now. Or people
           | who developed Chrome Extensions prior to Manifest V3. Or who
           | were banned from Google Fi, Youtube, or your app store of
           | choice by an automated, broken algorithm. Or who developed
           | Workspace Docs prior to mandatory security audits at price
           | points which will break most independent developers. Or....
           | 
           | The key difference is Microsoft has exactly 2 or 3 things on
           | the entire list where any users were left stranded. For
           | Google, you're a statistic. If a change breaks 10,000 small
           | businesses, Google looks at the impact on their bottom line,
           | and goes ahead with the change.
           | 
           | Microsoft bends over backwards to NOT do this. AWS as well.
           | It's not that it never happens, but if you've bet on your
           | business on Google, you're basically guaranteed it will
           | happen at one point or another.
        
             | bscphil wrote:
             | I think you're lashing out at Google for a variety of
             | different (and very good!) reasons, but they're outside the
             | range of my comment. People getting banned from Google
             | services because of broken automation is bad, of course,
             | but it has nothing to do with the issue of whether
             | migration paths are provided when services are sunsetted at
             | Google.
             | 
             | My point is that for Google's core services, they generally
             | due try to migrate users to a product that provides the
             | same basic features, but that _this isn 't good enough_.
             | Forcing users to migrate because of pointless churn in your
             | app offerings is already the problem, regardless of whether
             | the migrations are handled well. Google is worse than
             | Microsoft in this area not because they leave users
             | stranded (usually), but because they're _constantly_
             | switching their focus in products like messaging.
        
         | robertlagrant wrote:
         | Good point. Remember how easy it was to migrate off Kin? Or
         | Windows Mobile?
        
         | moooo99 wrote:
         | I am really looking forward to the day Skype for Business
         | finally dies forever. We introduced Teams a few years ago in
         | our org. Back then it was lacking some of the features
         | frequently used in Skype, so you'd have to keep both. Now,
         | years later, about half of the org is still using Skype for no
         | apparent reason. I don't particularly like Teams, primarily
         | because of the excessive resource usage, but it is still better
         | in every way.
        
       | tootie wrote:
       | Minecraft Earth never really got out of beta, but I thought for
       | sure it was going to be a hit. The fact that it died makes me
       | think AR is just never going to take off. Pokemon Go was 5 years
       | ago and we haven't seen even a better novelty act since then.
        
       | wkearney99 wrote:
       | Don't forget Desktop Gadgets, Sidebar and the hardware auxiliary
       | screen Windows SideShow.
       | 
       | StreamDeck 'sort of' offers some of what SideShow promised. And
       | 3rd parties have stepped in for Gadgets.
       | 
       | This was during a time when gizmos like the Chumby existed, and
       | had a lot of potential for being ambient information displays,
       | but alas the market never took off. And now devices like the Echo
       | Show still don't live up to the potential.
        
       | danielovichdk wrote:
       | I miss movie maker, live writer and windows phone.
        
         | randerson wrote:
         | Movie Maker (sort of) lives on as "Video Editor".
        
         | mdoms wrote:
         | Movie Maker was great. There is in fact a little-known useful
         | video editor built into Windows 10 and 11 called Video Editor
         | (previously was only available through the Photos app for some
         | reason) but it doesn't hold a candle to Movie Maker.
        
         | valdect wrote:
         | movie maker was simple and useful
        
       | jbullock35 wrote:
       | Some very old Microsoft games are also missing. Example:
       | Microsoft Decathlon.
       | 
       | [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olympic_Decathlon
        
       | LightG wrote:
       | Feature request.
       | 
       | All Killed by Microsoft/Google/Other projects should be required
       | to open source them.
        
       | cschep wrote:
       | A lot of these pieces of software were terrible! RIP to the one's
       | people miss I guess but.. man. I don't miss a lot of those.
        
       | D13Fd wrote:
       | It's funny how, reading this list (unlike the Google list), I see
       | very few products that I really miss. Maybe Encarta and Kinect.
        
       | dleslie wrote:
       | Microsoft Works was an amazing piece of software. Always
       | incredibly fast, with a small footprint, and had enough features
       | to satisfy most personal and business needs.
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | xyst wrote:
       | and this site was killedbyhackernews.info
        
       | farmerstan wrote:
       | What about killed by Google? I haven't seen any product
       | enhancements in Nest or Waze in YEARS. It's the same goddamn
       | product when so much more could be done. I feel stupid for going
       | so in on Nest and seeing nothing enhanced whatsoever. Not even
       | the video access has improved.
       | 
       | The Silicon Valley satire over google being a place to rest and
       | vest is very very real.
        
       | neogodless wrote:
       | Not to detract from the tool, but is it crowd-sourced? Moderated?
       | Saw some repeats with a few altered details. Things like Zune and
       | Microsoft Reader.
        
       | Pxtl wrote:
       | Games for Windows Live belongs there. When that service went down
       | took a lot of online games that depended on it with it.
        
         | jnwatson wrote:
         | Huh, I didn't realize they ended that.
        
           | Pxtl wrote:
           | I mean sort of? They still offer Solitaire and Minesweeper on
           | the store, but they're games with an annual fee to remove the
           | ads. Which is utterly revolting, of course.
        
         | daveoc64 wrote:
         | It's a common misconception that Microsoft closed the Games for
         | Windows Live service.
         | 
         | Basic features still work:
         | 
         | https://support.xbox.com/en-GB/help/games-apps/my-games-apps...
        
           | Pxtl wrote:
           | Regardless, there are many games on Steam that depend on GFWL
           | that require herculean efforts to get to even _run_ because
           | they 're looking for API endpoints that no longer exist.
        
         | GrumpyNl wrote:
         | They killed solitaire.
        
       | luxuryballs wrote:
       | FYI MonoGame is the continuation of XNA and is still used for
       | game development, pretty sure Stardew Valley was made using it.
       | 
       | Very approachable "code only" game engine if you already know C#.
       | 
       | I've been playing with it for a hobby game project and so far
       | everything works perfectly on both Mac and Windows which was
       | surprising, didn't even have to change a build flag or config
       | file just starting debug on Windows or Mac Visual Studio has
       | worked.
       | 
       | Not only that but a random old Logitech controller connected to
       | the Mac worked out of the box with Xbox controller code from
       | Windows.
        
         | Hello71 wrote:
         | Stardew Valley originally used XNA, then used MonoGame for non-
         | Windows compatibility, then switched to MonoGame entirely last
         | year.
        
       | whoopdeepoo wrote:
       | Skype is alive in name only
        
         | tester756 wrote:
         | I've been using it for the first two years of Covid's WFH
        
           | smt88 wrote:
           | The underlying technology is not Skype anymore.
           | 
           | I tried to Skype with relatives recently and the application
           | ground my (recent, powerful) machine completely to a halt. It
           | was insane.
        
       | throwaways85989 wrote:
       | But can it run windows while on life-support? Can we shove the
       | core-feature we wish for down its throat to kill it faster? Can
       | we put windows on a tablet, or phone-GUI we wish we had a market
       | for into our os?
       | 
       | Nothing as dangerous to your developing product line as that
       | "one-trick-pony" keeping the company afloat, who wants to get in.
       | 
       | Then again, you can get that R&D for cheap, when it inevitable
       | crashes and burns and the developers leave the company
       | disillusioned.
        
       | tryptophan wrote:
       | Wunderlist is still alive as Microsoft todo though isn't it?
        
         | mdoms wrote:
         | I think it's a totally different product? Could be wrong
         | though.
        
           | LightG wrote:
           | It seemed to be a rebrand or rewrite ... but it was never the
           | same and I gave up on it.
           | 
           | Haven't tried it recently so cannot remember the features
           | they dropped, but was damned annoying. Wunderlist was fine.
           | MS Todo was basically the same without some key features that
           | I used.
           | 
           | I gave up on it considering the developer timescale was snail
           | pace...
           | 
           | How tf do the big boys get "todo" so wrong?
           | 
           | Google completely fluffed Google Tasks ... despite it having
           | some really impressive features like "add email to tasks",
           | best implementation I've seen of it. Which is a shame as the
           | rest of the To do app is not worth anyones time.
           | 
           | MS as well ...
           | 
           | /endrant
        
             | chefandy wrote:
             | I'm evaluating todo apps and most of the easily accessible
             | opinion/info is shitty listicles or shitty YouTube self-
             | help gurus. Out of curiosity, what were the key dropped
             | Wunderlist->ToDo features? I do hear a lot of people
             | appreciate the MS ToDo "My Day" feature and know a lot of
             | people were annoyed by the switch, but assumed it was a
             | general distaste for MS rather than specific features.
             | 
             | I have weird enough needs I was planning to use an open
             | source CalDAV server, OS native clients and local push
             | notification app for the parts the native apps don't
             | support... but the FOSS CalDav server space is kind of
             | rough right now.
        
           | Kwpolska wrote:
           | It's different, might be a rewrite (since it took it a while
           | to reach feature-parity), but the general idea of being a
           | simplistic to-do app was kept.
        
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