[HN Gopher] Azores - Evacuations Begin as Seismic Crisis Unfolds...
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Azores - Evacuations Begin as Seismic Crisis Unfolds in Atlantic
Author : Ftuuky
Score : 171 points
Date : 2022-03-27 17:07 UTC (5 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (weatherboy.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (weatherboy.com)
| santialbo wrote:
| I hope it's not like what happened in La Palma in the Canary
| islands last year. But it brings to the attention that maybe
| building your life on a volcanic area is not the best move over
| the long term. Chances that something happens in a 100 year
| lifespan are not negligible.
| ChrisMarshallNY wrote:
| Volcanic soil is some of the best soil there is.
|
| If you want agriculture, there's no place better than near a
| volcano (which is one reason for big death tolls, when they
| blow their tops).
|
| I lived in Uganda, and that country is surrounded by volcanoes
| (I think they are all dormant). The soil is jet-black, and it
| is a gorgeous, lush nation.
| selimthegrim wrote:
| Rwanda and Burundi too?
| ChrisMarshallNY wrote:
| I think so. There's a huge fault, right up the middle of
| Africa. The Rift Valley is an awesome place.
| mrlonglong wrote:
| I recently watched a documentary about the east rift
| valley. They say in a few millions of years there'll be a
| new ocean and Africa will divide into two.
| jp57 wrote:
| Unless you're Nietzsche: "The secret of realizing the greatest
| fruitfulness and the greatest enjoyment of existence is: to
| live dangerously! Build your cities on the slopes of Vesuvius!"
| petre wrote:
| I'd rather build on a voclanic area than anywhere near Russia.
| Places with volcanoes are maybe the nicest places to live if
| you're not obsessed with material posessions.
|
| https://youtu.be/U1SSlulfFKg
|
| We've been to the Azores. I really wish these people are safe.
| We want to return there again soon.
| mhoad wrote:
| I was just in Azores a few months ago and was seriously
| considering the move there. Truly one of the most naturally
| beautiful places I've even heard the chance to see.
|
| I hope that everyone is able to stay safe and get through this
| alright.
| dzhiurgis wrote:
| I'm considering move from NZ to Azores too. Seems weather is
| quite nice, albeit might be too humid in mid summer and a bit
| cloudy.
| stjohnswarts wrote:
| Can I have your spot in NZ? :)
| b20000 wrote:
| what was your main reason to move?
| mrPurplePinkie wrote:
| From my point of view, In Terceira there was only one
| traffic light (this was ca 2003)
| Turing_Machine wrote:
| It says in the article that 8 people were killed in the
| eruption of 1808, more than 200 years ago. From Wikipedia, the
| most recent significant eruption in the Azores was in 1957. No
| one was killed.
|
| People have been living in the Azores since the 1400s.
|
| I'm willing to bet that the risk from volcanic eruption in the
| Azores is considerably less than the risk from, say, traffic
| accidents in a major mainland city.
| DoingIsLearning wrote:
| Also not really a factor nowadays but if you were farming on
| volcanic land in the 1400's it would have been insanely
| fertile (andisol).
| santialbo wrote:
| Noone died in La Palma, but thousands of families lost their
| lifelong belongings.
| zeruch wrote:
| If we pick where we live based on likelihood of natural
| disaster, we basically reduced the human footprint to maybe 2%
| of the planetary landmass. :)
| stjohnswarts wrote:
| I think there's a difference between building a house in the
| midwest and building one on top of a volcano? There's a lot
| of probably to work with there (along with possibility to
| escape the natural disaster, I can build a tornado proof
| underground shelter)
| supernova87a wrote:
| I had the recollection that at least in terms of earthquake risk,
| the mid-Atlantic region is not nearly as bad for severe
| earthquakes as the Pacific, since the mid-Atlantic is an
| _expanding_ / divergent fault. I.e. material gets pushed up
| gradually and the plates are politely moving away from one
| another. This is supposed to be less catastrophic compared to
| subduction where big stresses build up and get released suddenly
| when things break. Is that generally right?
|
| But of course, that is just the earthquake part, doesn't speak to
| the volcano or tsunami risk of big mountains erupting or falling
| into the ocean. I guess this current story is about the
| possibility of lava/ash, like what happened to the suburbs
| downslope of Kilauea or Soufriere Hills in the last couple years.
|
| Edit, actually watching one of the videos linked by other
| commenters, it looks remarkably like Molokai and people living
| (gulp) at the bottom of steep drop-off/valleys.
| ByteJockey wrote:
| I thought transform boundaries were the big earthquake risk
| (not that there is none at convergent boundaries).
|
| At least that's what I remember from my 8th grade earth science
| class. I could be really wrong.
| nknezek wrote:
| Earth science PhD here - you're pretty much right, but Atlantic
| oceans can still be bad.
|
| Most earthquakes are caused by tectonic plate motion.
|
| The biggest earthquakes (>M9, e.g. Japan 2011) occur at
| subduction zones where an oceanic plate collides with and dives
| underneath a continental plate. Japan, South&Central America,
| New Zealand, and Malaysia are the biggest and most common
| examples. Two plates pushing against each other allow large
| energy to build, which can be released suddenly and
| catastrophically.
|
| Large earthquakes (M7-8, e.g. San Francisco 1906) can still
| occur along strike-slip faults, where two plates are sliding
| past each other. However, because the plates are sliding, these
| faults usually cannot build enough energy for extremely large
| earthquakes (>M9.0). San Andreas fault in California is the
| most well known strike-slip fault and runs through both LA and
| SF, and has caused plenty of damage partly because the faults
| run directly through population centers.
|
| The Azores lie on top of strike slip and expanding (normal)
| faults. Thus, they are not likely to experience the largest
| earthquakes (M9), but could be hit but a M8 which can still be
| devastating, especially if buildings are not constructed with
| earthquake safety in mind.
|
| In addition, there is a high risk of any earthquake triggering
| an underwater landslide since the Azores are a mid-ocean island
| chain. This could cause a tsunami which could damage far-away
| locations.
|
| As far as lava/ash risk -- generally the biggest risk is from
| explosive eruptions forming into a fast-moving cloud of ash and
| mud called a "pyroclastic flow" or "lahar". [1] These can
| travel faster than a car and blanket everything in their path
| in a boiling, burning cloud. Think Mt St Helens or Mt Vesuvius.
| However, only certain types of volcanoes are at risk of this
| type of eruption -- Hawaii for example erupts as smooth, oozing
| lava flows -- and I don't know if the Azores are at risk for
| this kind of eruption.
|
| Notes on safety:
|
| For earthquake safety, the best cure is preparation. Most
| injuries and death occur from items falling on top of people
| during the shaking. Secure shelves and items on walls. Avoid
| living in structures on poles as they are prone to collapse
| (e.g. apartments with parking garage on first level). Avoid
| living in marshy areas or seaside land constructed with
| landfill (due to liquefaction) or on steep slopes (due to
| landslides).
|
| For tsunamis, if there is a warning, head to high ground
| further inland if possible, or move to upper stories of the
| roof of structures.
|
| [1] https://www.usgs.gov/observatories/cascades-volcano-
| observat... earthquake safety:
| https://www.calacademy.org/explore-science/how-to-prepare-fo...
| tsunami safety: https://www.ready.gov/tsunamis
| darksaints wrote:
| There was a pyroclastic flow event the last time this volcano
| erupted (early 1800s), and it killed something like 30
| people.
|
| Edit: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bocas_de_Fogo
|
| One big concern I have is the potential for a big boom that
| can be heard for thousands of miles (like the recent Tongan
| eruption), which would be in range of a certain trigger happy
| sociopath that wants a reason to use his nukes. I'm not sure
| if either of those scenarios (big boom or misinterpreted nuke
| signals) is realistic, but I'll be worried until it is
| effectively a non-issue.
| gremlinsinc wrote:
| At first I thought that was kinda crazy, cause he'd 'know'
| pretty quick it was a volcano, but then I realized some of
| the 'deadmen switches' are triggered by seismic actions, or
| at least that's what I'd heard/read elsewhere, maybe it's
| not. Would kinda suck if something automatically launched
| because of a geological event, not an actual attack, and it
| actually wasn't Putin causing it.
| EdwardDiego wrote:
| Quibble - pyroclastic flows and lahars are very different
| things.
|
| The former is the boiling burning cloud of gas and tephra,
| the latter is a slurry of water and tephra.
| gremlinsinc wrote:
| Is there some sort of correlation with uptick in seismic
| activity, I mean are we in seeing normal activity, or is
| there indeed a lot more going on than 'usual'?
|
| Maybe it's just some synchronicity and I'm just more 'aware'
| because of all the other natural disasters, and non-natural,
| but it just 'feels' like something big is coming because of
| all the volcanoes, tsunami's, and other reports of activity.
|
| Also, how much does climate change affect volcanoes, and
| earthquakes?
| eurasiantiger wrote:
| Would it be possible to trigger an earthquake by undersea
| drilling in a heterogenous or diffuse fault zone?
|
| Asking for a reason.
|
| https://www.istc.int/en/project/CCBC05C670F935B0C32570040042.
| ..
|
| https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20171121-why-russia-is-
| se...
| pid-1 wrote:
| If I'm not mistaken there was an earthquake in 17xx that almost
| erased Lisbon.
|
| Still, it really appears that sismic activity in the Pacific is
| much more frequent.
| Ftuuky wrote:
| 1755 earthquake (and tsunami) nearly destroyed the whole city
| and was probably one of the most deadliest in history. It was
| also one of the first quakes to be studied scientifically [0]
|
| Sooner or later it will hit Lisbon again, scientists say. As
| a Portuguese I'm very afraid the city is not prepared for
| something with an estimated magnitude of 7.7-9.0...
|
| [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1755_Lisbon_earthquake
| EdwardDiego wrote:
| I was wondering, given that quake, do Portugal's building
| codes now incorporate seismic standards?
| Ftuuky wrote:
| Yes but since 2020 it's moving to European construction
| standards [0]
|
| [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurocode_8:_Design_of_s
| tructur...
| mrlonglong wrote:
| 1755, and it really did obliterate the city. They had to
| rebuild it all, it was all gone.
| zeruch wrote:
| It did destroy a significant portion of the city, and the
| rebuilding was a centerpoint of the Marquis de Pombal, whose
| expanding rule/influence was largely won based on his skill
| at using the rebuild to enact all manner of political change
| in a short period of time.
| pfdietz wrote:
| GeologyHub has a short video on the situation:
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RTxhIEYICWw
|
| Note the risk from landslides onto coastal flat areas.
| philipov wrote:
| Thanks for a new youtube channel to follow.
| pfdietz wrote:
| I also recommend Mentour Pilot (not geology related, but
| interesting.)
|
| This episode (about Olympic 411) is a nailbiter:
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fT6r9_wmT20
| AtlasBarfed wrote:
| Is this massive scale landslide danger an Atlantic bicoastal
| tsunami danger like the Canary Islands?
|
| edit link:
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cumbre_Vieja_tsunami_hazard
| pfdietz wrote:
| No, it's due to people living on the debris fans below steep
| cliffs on the island, which were formed by previous large
| landslides.
| philipov wrote:
| The article compares it to them, but also mentions that the
| exact extent of a tsunami danger from landslides in the
| canaries is debated. There are arguments that the travel
| distance to landfall, continental shelves, and tendency
| towards multi-stage landslides mitigates the danger from
| landslides in the Canary Islands.
| [deleted]
| Morthor wrote:
| I am from, and currently live in the Azores. Friends from Sao
| Jorge Island have told me that they are not overly concerned at
| the moment and have evacuated only to another part of the island.
| Many people have gone to other islands. Before you think it's
| silly that people seem unpreocupied, please remember that
| vulcanoes and earthquakes are, and have been, a part of our lives
| since our ancestors populated the Azores.
| asah wrote:
| Nice! Being from a boring place, I'm jealous. :-)
|
| How can you tell when it's a "big one" vs a normal one?
| metadat wrote:
| This is terrifying and scary sounding, there is still so much we
| don't understand about the earth. It seems we are involved in
| quite a dangerous experiment as society continues to scale out
| and consume resources at an ever increasing rate.
|
| Are we most likely screwed as a species in the medium term? Is
| the best plan really to rely on the benevolent leadership and
| good intentions of low-EQ celebrities like Elon Musk and Uncle
| Jeff Bezos along with the government to save us from catastrophe?
|
| I sure hope we (and our children) aren't stuck on a dead end
| path, but sometimes it seems quite probable. We can't even stop
| putin from doing crazy stupid murderous shit because we are
| rightly afraid of a ww3 nuclear holocaust. This doesn't even
| start to address the reality that the universe doesn't care
| whether or not humanity continues to exist. It's frustrating and
| depressing.
| senthil_rajasek wrote:
| >Is the best plan really to rely on the benevolent leadership
| and good intentions of low-EQ celebrities like Elon Musk and
| Uncle Jeff Bezos along with the government to save us from
| catastrophe?
|
| If we learned anything from the global pandemic (covid-19), the
| world would do better by building and strengthening
| institutions like WHO and CDC to solve global problems.
| pasquinelli wrote:
| isn't this just about a volcano?
| pessimizer wrote:
| WaitWaitWha wrote:
| /s
|
| (please tell me you just forgot, but it sort of fits your
| alias ;) )
| [deleted]
| jofer wrote:
| For whatever it's worth, while there are plenty of reasons to
| be concerned about sustainability and resource consumption,
| this particular type of natural disaster has absolutely zero to
| do with humanity.
|
| This is very much something we understand quite well. You're
| seeing volcanic activity on a volcanic island on a plate
| boundary. Basically, this is the geological "normal" for this
| area that's been going on much longer than human civilization.
|
| It's fair to be worried about increased human population in
| areas that are affected by this, but it's not in any way
| something caused by civilization's toll on the environment or
| even something we "don't understand" in some way. There's
| _tons_ that we don't understand in detail, but the broad brush
| strokes of volcanoes at a mid ocean ridge is something we
| understand relatively well. Note that the evacuation is
| beginning _before_ the eruption due to both local seismic
| monitoring of the sub-surface and space-borne monitoring of
| deformation at the surface.
| metadat wrote:
| Thank you, amazing to read these comforting responses
| especially from an actual geologist!
| asiachick wrote:
| wow, that page is impossible to read. Every few seconds it kept
| popping back to the top of the page. After 5 times trying to
| continue reading where I left off I gave up
|
| maybe these ones
|
| https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/with-tears-uncertainty-...
|
| https://www.reuters.com/business/environment/azores-volcanic...
| powera wrote:
| Agreed. Hopefully the mods will replace the link.
| stjohnswarts wrote:
| Use an adblocker?
| virgulino wrote:
| An eruption of ads.
|
| The Reader view (F9) in Firefox fixed it.
| [deleted]
| Ftuuky wrote:
| This link has more information than Reuters (and it's not
| paywalled like the links you've shared, at least from me). I
| didn't notice the pop-ups due to the adblock I use, my
| apologies for that.
| fwsgonzo wrote:
| If you disable JavaScript on the page it reads fine. I have it
| disabled by default.
| yosito wrote:
| I don't understand how normies with JavaScript enabled manage
| to do anything on the internet these days. Seems content
| publishers have thrown usability out the window in favor of
| spammy tracking and manipulative marketing.
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