[HN Gopher] How to Build a Minimum Lovable Product
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       How to Build a Minimum Lovable Product
        
       Author : dundalk03
       Score  : 70 points
       Date   : 2022-03-25 05:57 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (userpilot.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (userpilot.com)
        
       | ilrwbwrkhv wrote:
       | I think this falls into the problem of building something that is
       | potentially interesting.
       | 
       | If the problem is hair on fire bad, UX doesn't matter.
        
         | dchuk wrote:
         | > If the problem is hair on fire bad, UX doesn't matter.
         | 
         | Just replying to make sure you know how profoundly true this
         | is. And if you want the secret to mega success: solve a hair on
         | fire problem with great ux and you will win almost
         | automatically.
        
           | drBonkers wrote:
           | How do you identify hair-on-fire problems?
        
             | jschveibinz wrote:
             | One good way is to live them. Those who have worked for
             | 5-10 years in any given field (not just software) can
             | easily identify the most valuable "hair on fire" problems
             | to solve.
             | 
             | Otherwise, consider these factors:
             | 
             | 1. How many people are affected?
             | 
             | 2. How much does the problem cost (in time or money)?
             | 
             | 3. How much extra money can be made by solving the problem?
             | 
             | 4. How much time can be saved?
             | 
             | 5. What is currently blocking the way to dramatic
             | improvements (in anything)?
             | 
             | 6. What is causing people real pain, fear, suffering, or
             | dramatic inconvenience in a large enough market?
             | 
             | That's a good start, anyway. Good luck with the journey.
        
               | chefandy wrote:
               | If you run an established service or have a certain kind
               | of userbase? Sure. For a startup with a consumer-focused
               | mobile app? Maybe not. For them, not enough people liking
               | your product to build a reputation is a "hair on fire"
               | problem. In most shopping apps for example, most
               | customers would never even know if the service had 12
               | hours of downtime per week. An extra step during the
               | checkout sequence, however, and you'll never see them
               | again if there's an alternative.
               | 
               | Developers see interfaces and user flows as a place to
               | expose controls so users can operate the software. To
               | users, the interface is the software and bad interface =
               | bad software.
               | 
               | So it's super context dependent.
        
             | hyuuu wrote:
             | Would love to know this
        
               | JamesBarney wrote:
               | 1. You already are deeply familiar with an industry
               | 
               | Or
               | 
               | 2. You can tell when you talk to people who have the
               | problem. They get really excited about having it solving
               | for them and don't care about the price it costs to solve
               | it.
        
       | lyime wrote:
       | Minimum viable and minimum lovable should be the same thing.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | paxys wrote:
       | Too many people fall into the trap that an MVP is meant for the
       | end user. The V stands for _viable_. You are simply testing if
       | something is actually possible to do and fits a real use case or
       | not. The consumers are:
       | 
       | 1. Yourself - was it just a stupid thought in your head or
       | actually something useful?
       | 
       | 2. Investors - see this isn't just a pipe dream but an actual
       | working product. Now give me money.
       | 
       | 3. _Maybe_ a very small set of actual users to act as a focus
       | group and tell you how stupid you are.
       | 
       | Once an idea has passed validation by 1, 2 and 3, that's when
       | development can _start_. That's when you build an MLP or alpha or
       | beta or whatever else you want to call it.
       | 
       | If you think you are just going to slap a logo on a MVP and start
       | charging $10/month for it, no shit people will laugh you off.
        
       | amelius wrote:
       | So something that you _barely_ love ...
       | 
       | Doesn't sound any better, to be honest.
        
         | cperciva wrote:
         | It could be something you love but which is only barely a
         | product. My (almost) 1 year old could qualify -- very lovable
         | but there really isn't much of a market. ;-)
        
           | amelius wrote:
           | Better call it "Lovable Minimum Product" then.
        
       | davedx wrote:
       | Seems to be popular at the moment to say "MVP has failed" without
       | showing any evidence how.
       | 
       | Just another attempt to kick start one more senseless hype cycle
       | for no good reason
        
       | javajosh wrote:
       | When I read these kinds of posts it feels like I'm reading a
       | monks treatise on how to fall madly, passionately in love. It's
       | like, really hopeful, but I don't think great software is made in
       | this way. It seems to always _start out_ with something
       | unaccountably useful, and building out the business-y stuff comes
       | second. This post feels like it was written for businesses that
       | are fungible software experiments ( "just add money!")
        
       | ChrisMarshallNY wrote:
       | I like the approach.
       | 
       | For myself, I have always _loathed_ the MVP concept, and that has
       | not made me fans; especially amongst this crowd. I 've learned to
       | just bite my tongue, and do things the way I do.
       | 
       | I'm in the later stages of a fairly ambitious native Swift UIKit
       | iOS app (around 40 screens). It has been in progress for about 18
       | months (over two years, if you consider the backend, which I also
       | wrote).
       | 
       | During that time, I have been sharing the built app with the
       | team, using Apple's TestFlight beta-test system. I made my first
       | TestFlight release on October 4, 2020. Since then, I've made
       | around 600 releases. It's abusing the TestFlight process, which
       | is really supposed to be an "end-stage" service, but it's worked
       | well for us, and the Quality of the app is through the roof.
       | 
       | We have also made several _massive_ pivots, and have settled on a
       | UX that we think users will love, and will address the needs of
       | the community that it Serves (It 's a free app, for a non-
       | profit).
       | 
       | I couldn't even _imagine_ this being out there, during the last
       | year or so (when we first thought we had a  "viable" product). It
       | would have completely destroyed any credibility we had (and we
       | actually have quite a bit).
        
       | nikodunk wrote:
       | I LOVE this concept. Condenses so many missed points about MVP
       | into a very simple acronym: Encapsulates succinctly "people
       | wanting this product", making it "good enough to recommend to
       | friends", etc. etc.
        
       | lucb1e wrote:
       | I don't get this writing copy thing. It first seemed like the
       | tweet was quoted and captioned "hard pass" with a repulsed gif
       | maybe because a copywriter doesn't even know how to spell their
       | job title, saying writing copy instead? But the article keeps
       | using the word so that can't be it.
       | 
       | Not sure if copywriting (with or without space) is a thing but
       | copywriter and copyediting is: https://www.merriam-
       | webster.com/dictionary/copywriting
       | 
       | Writing copy, no idea what that's supposed to be:
       | https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/writing%20copy
       | 
       | Anyone here in the know of this jargon? And how is it related to
       | "MLP"s (to stay in the custom jargosphere)?
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | kareemm wrote:
       | I'm really coming to dislike this type of article. It's vague
       | platitudes rather than a practitioner who has earned scars and
       | thus has the experience to describe the nitty gritty why and how
       | beyond the vague recommendations.
       | 
       | For example:
       | 
       | 1. Has the Userpilot team failed at building and MVP and
       | succeeded with an MLP? If so what did they learn and why?
       | 
       | 2. Lots of people have succeeded with an MVP approach. They
       | describe a handful of things you can do wrong when building an
       | MVP... but what if you DON'T do those things that they claim lead
       | to MVP failure?
       | 
       | 3. Digging into one of the recommendations - don't sacrifice
       | delighters. They talk about how they wouldn't include the Asana
       | unicorn in their MLP and end with "balance delighters with
       | effort". Fine. But HOW do you do that? What framework can you
       | provide ME to do that?
       | 
       | This smacks of a writer doing a Google Research Project to offer
       | up hand-wavy advice. 0/10 would not recommend.
        
       | productceo wrote:
       | Let me know when you would like me to invent yet another word to
       | call the same thing. How's Minimum Promising Product?
       | 
       | If MVP does not solve a real problem, it does not validate the
       | correct hypothesis, so what the post describes as an MVP that is
       | not MLP is not an MVP.
       | 
       | And an MLP executed to be not MVP would be a thing built to be
       | built, or taking unnecessarily risky bets spending unnecessary
       | cost.
       | 
       | Cut the crap with fighting words with words. If the community
       | used the word MVP to help introduce a more useful concept, real
       | builders focus on executing it correctly, to the best of our
       | ability, giving the inventors fair credit and most charitable
       | interpretation. Alas, we have content marketers among us, and
       | those who failed and wish to blame it on being given wrong
       | instructions to follow, inventing empty words like MLP.
        
         | micromacrofoot wrote:
         | Why are you so upset about words? if you don't like a word,
         | don't use it or make up your own! it's a beautiful thing.
        
           | vmception wrote:
           | the trigger is recently joining an organization or getting a
           | new CEO or manager that uses these cringy aspirational
           | unnecessary words
           | 
           | and listening to the entire internet say "if you don't like
           | one tiny aspect of your work environment, its a huge red flag
           | for a bunch of other stuff so just leave!" as if such choice
           | in the matter is really there and that the next organization
           | doesn't have some other tiny cringy thing
           | 
           | so then if you ignore that advice, you're stuck with the
           | childish babble that the people in your organization use to
           | cope
        
             | productceo wrote:
             | Interesting you being up the other POV. I experienced this
             | from the opposite side.
             | 
             | A teammate once told me he is frustrated with being asked
             | to work on an MVP, that is minimum cost, minimum polish,
             | minimally functioning. He said he wanted to work on MLP, so
             | I said he can call it MLP if he wants, but what we must
             | build does not change: prove the concept minimally such
             | that we can verify whether the problem we seek to solve is
             | a real problem in the first place, then we can add as much
             | polish as needed once we know it's a good problem to solve.
             | If we think customers are experiencing some problem that,
             | in order to solve minimally, we need to give them polish,
             | then the polish is a part of the MVP/MLP. Otherwise, it is
             | not. It doesn't matter what we call it. What matters is
             | what we must do.
             | 
             | He thought that my attitude taking the distinction between
             | MLP and MVP lightly was a sign that I do not care about the
             | best interest of our customers, and left the company.
        
             | micromacrofoot wrote:
             | I just ignore stuff I don't like, it's a lot easier.
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | labster wrote:
           | A word you create because you don't like another word is
           | called a blortle. I just made it up.
        
             | micromacrofoot wrote:
             | no cap?
        
               | vmception wrote:
               | cap
        
             | yawnxyz wrote:
             | I like it! Seems to happen quite a bit in academia (e.g.
             | microbiology)
        
             | mromanuk wrote:
             | I don't like blortle, I would prefer a raifin. See? I'm
             | already blorting
        
             | Jensson wrote:
             | A word you create because you need a random word is called
             | a fizz, and when you need another fizz you call it a buzz.
        
       | arendtio wrote:
       | The book "The Lean Startup" by Eric Ries helped me understand
       | what an MVP is about. It is about learning. So 'viable' doesn't
       | mean someone can barely use it to do X. It is more like an
       | experiment that should answer a question (an hypothesis).
       | 
       | So an MVP can be crappy, as long as it helps to answer the
       | question it is supposed to answer. The lovable part should come,
       | once you understand your environment and can build something that
       | people actually need.
        
         | hiptobecubic wrote:
         | That doesn't sound like a "product" to me nor does it sound
         | "viable." That sounds like a regular old prototype.
        
           | soneca wrote:
           | I think of prototype as something to show that you can build
           | something. No end user uses a prototype. End users use MVPs.
           | I agree with GP
        
           | rco8786 wrote:
           | It's almost like it's a pedantic argument from the start
        
         | strainer wrote:
         | Viable doesn't usually mean a thing is only just or barely
         | sufficient. It usually means a thing is _at least_ sufficient.
         | It means a thing is _more than_ good enough to be viable. The
         | question  "is it viable?" is used to find out if something is
         | at the point of being "good enough" or greater, and something
         | more than good enough will still be "perfectly viable".
         | "Minimal Viable" doesn't extend to great, but it does also
         | reach perfect viability. Describe something as "barely viable"
         | suggests its not quite viable. Viability is all about passing
         | the threshold of being in fact viable. As viable is a binary
         | qualifier, the "Minimal" part more intelligibly constrains the
         | "Product". Its a minimal product that is yet viable, not a
         | product with minimal viability.
         | 
         | In the same vein "Minimal Lovable Product", shouldn't mean a
         | product which someone could only barely love :]
        
       | noodle wrote:
       | > Minimum Lovable Products (MLPs) add more focus on the idea that
       | whatever you're putting out in the market has to solve a real-
       | world problem from the beginning
       | 
       | Is this not already the definition of an MVP? As they put it - a
       | skeleton that doesn't solve anything - isn't really a viable
       | product...
        
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       (page generated 2022-03-26 23:00 UTC)