[HN Gopher] Korn Meets KoRN
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       Korn Meets KoRN
        
       Author : sgt
       Score  : 321 points
       Date   : 2022-03-24 13:58 UTC (9 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.kornshell.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.kornshell.com)
        
       | tbojanin wrote:
       | This is hilarious, great photos
        
       | racl101 wrote:
       | KoIaN members are probably like: "what the fuck is a shell"?
        
         | DeathArrow wrote:
         | Slipknot fans will be able to help:
         | 
         | Inside my shell I wait and bleed.
        
           | sgt wrote:
           | Wait and bleed, but only if the wait was successful.
        
           | [deleted]
        
         | skrebbel wrote:
         | My working theory is that the majority of metal musicians runs
         | _at least_ Arch, but I 'm not sure if that extends to Numetal
         | from the nineties.
        
           | darrenf wrote:
           | Arch Enemy probably don't.
        
             | NDizzle wrote:
             | This is my favorite HN thread in a while, already.
             | 
             | Although, thinking about how to explain these jokes to
             | anyone else is difficult. I'll just leave my chuckling
             | confined to my office.
        
           | madengr wrote:
        
           | rascul wrote:
           | Don't they need to tell people they run Arch?
        
           | 130e13a wrote:
           | my guess would be that the majority of metal fans who also
           | run Arch will probably have significant overlap with the
           | section of the metal fan base which does not consider nu
           | metal to be metal in the first place
        
             | wirrbel wrote:
             | Pretty sure they don't containerize with docker because
             | they prefer bare metal.
        
           | marapuru wrote:
           | Relevant band: Arch Echo
        
       | channel_t wrote:
       | I remember being 12 years old in 1996 looking for Korn websites
       | on AltaVista and found that a solid half of the links being
       | returned were ksh guides. Maybe that's how I turned into such a
       | Unix geek.
        
         | giantrobot wrote:
         | Unix: not even once.
        
           | h2odragon wrote:
           | https://wh0rd.ca/humor/text/Adequacy_org20%20Is%20Your%20Son.
           | ..
        
       | ncphil wrote:
       | My first experience with the korn shell was 20 years ago while
       | trying to prove myself worthy of root on the Solaris boxes that
       | hosted the LDAP servers (iPlanet, of course) I was responsible
       | for. I'd done a lot of Windows shell scripting before that, and
       | had installed Red Hat Linux to a beat up Packard Bell in 1995,
       | but was floored by the seemingly limitless capabilities of Unix
       | userland utilities under the control of ksh. At first I made due
       | with the man pages, but soon started studying Aeleen Frisch's
       | classic Essential System Administration, and finally got hold of
       | the O'Reilly animal book for Korn. I eventually moved on to bash
       | after helping convince my company to get on RHEL, but those
       | formative experiences with ksh will stay with me forever. Tech is
       | my second career, and has only really paid off in the last 10, so
       | I'm among those over 60 guys who will probably stick around past
       | full retirement age (here in the US for those in my age cohort
       | that's 67).
        
         | sgt wrote:
         | You never stop learning. Sounds like you've learned lots of the
         | fundamentals that will be super useful in the next 10 years as
         | well!
        
       | comprev wrote:
       | Thank you HN, this thread has genuinely brightened my week.
        
       | ilamont wrote:
       | That was unexpected. Could take things a bit further with
       | chapters or elements that have fun with lyrics, "Phreak on a
       | Leash" etc.
       | 
       | Speaking of KoRN: I never got into the band, but they featured in
       | the excellent Woodstock 99 documentary which is as much a
       | commentary on cultural and demographic shifts as it is about
       | music.
        
         | sgt wrote:
         | Thank you for that tip - I need to find a copy of the Woodstock
         | 99 documentary.
        
       | KORraN wrote:
       | Never expected KoRN to be on HN's front page. Half of my nickname
       | comes from the band.
       | 
       | I guess it's time to refresh some memories from the past,
       | Spotify.
        
         | sgt wrote:
         | Spotify will definitely be seeing a surge of KoRN requests
         | tonight.
        
           | conradfr wrote:
           | To be fair they released a new album last month.
        
       | mzvkxlcvd wrote:
       | is ksh still relevant today? at my first job i worked on IBM AIX
       | systems that only supported ksh, and all the old timers were
       | convinced that bash was inferior
        
         | amatecha wrote:
         | Yup, it's the default shell in OpenBSD ( see 4th-last bullet
         | point at https://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq1.html#OtherUnixes )
        
         | prg318 wrote:
         | I've worked at a shop with a _lot_ of legacy code and a very
         | fragile build environment. The myriad of scripts that source
         | scripts that source other scripts to produce a working build
         | were all written in KSH - as well as the majority of the tools
         | to set up an environment to actually run the software. Since
         | these scripts were intended to be sourced, adding a shebang
         | doesn 't solve the issue at all.
         | 
         | Fortunately, zsh can operate in ksh emulation mode [1] so I was
         | able to leverage zsh while I was there to some extent.
         | 
         | The system I worked on there is still being actively used and
         | developed today and still relies on a fragile set of ksh
         | scripts to build and run in certain environments.
         | 
         | [1]
         | https://zsh.sourceforge.io/Doc/Release/Invocation.html#Compa...
        
         | kps wrote:
         | I use it, both interactively and for scripts.
         | 
         | One reason is that its `getopts` makes it very easy to provide
         | full short and long option processing with help messages;
         | script boilerplate is something like                   usage=$'
         | [-1]           [a:a-long-option?Help text]:[number]
         | [b:bool-long-option?Helpful text]         '         while
         | getopts "$usage" c         do             typeset
         | opt_$c="${OPTARG:-1}"         done
         | 
         | Another is that the final command of a pipeline runs in the
         | shell environment, so that you can do things like
         | bunch |           of |           commands |           while
         | read some stuff           do
         | RESULTS[$some]="$stuff"           done
         | 
         | and then use the $RESULTS. That is fairly painful in bash;
         | basically you have to wrap the entire rest of the script in {
         | ... }.
        
         | kasabali wrote:
         | I was an avid reader of RHEL release notes during 6.x/7.x times
         | and I was surprised to see ksh package not only being shipped
         | but being actively maintained and getting several bug fixes at
         | every point release.
         | 
         | So yes, somebody still must've been using it.
        
         | necheffa wrote:
         | I can almost guarantee in some dark corner there is an
         | organization still using ksh. I know because I have encountered
         | this for different, otherwise defunct shells.
        
       | DeathArrow wrote:
       | Now I want an Iron Maiden thread. :)
        
       | Minor49er wrote:
       | I've had some Issues with KornShell. I wrote a quick unit
       | Counting script, kind of a Dirty hack to try it out. "Let's Get
       | This Party Started," I thought as I hit enter on my keyboard,
       | eager to see the units print on my screen. But it couldn't even
       | count to "4 U". Instead, it printed "./count.sh[3]: syntax error:
       | `(' unexpected" and just stopped Dead. I tried again, thinking
       | It's Gonna Go Away. Nope, No Way. Am I Going Crazy? Somebody
       | Somewhere has to know what's going wrong. Before long, I realized
       | I had to Wake Up and face the truth that KornShell is very
       | particular about whitespace. Those of you who only write in
       | modern languages and environments, I Wish You Could Be Me for
       | just a moment to realize how nice you have it today and how you
       | don't have to put up with Trash that can't parse without
       | whitespace.
        
         | brainwipe wrote:
         | Glad you didn't get into a Twist.
        
           | brainwipe wrote:
           | True-fact^1: the song was actually Jonathan Davies reading
           | out 68000 assembler.
           | 
           | [1] Not really.
        
             | hestefisk wrote:
             | I thought more a well-written Perl script.
        
         | kstrauser wrote:
         | I'm glad someone's Got The Life style that lets them try these
         | experiments.
        
         | naiv wrote:
         | Wow. This is so creative :)
         | 
         | I counted 11 KoRn songs in there. (If counted correctly)
        
           | pedrogpimenta wrote:
           | I count 13!
           | 
           | Edit: Issues, Counting, Dirty, Let's Get This Party Started,
           | 4 U, Dead, It's Gonna Go Away, No Way, Am I Going Crazy?,
           | Somebody Somewhere, Wake Up, I Wish You Could Be Me, Trash
        
             | comprev wrote:
             | "Follow The Leader" album started on track 13 :-)
        
         | gigaflop wrote:
         | Did you check to see if one of your transistors was twisted?
         | You'd have to be blind to miss something like that.
        
         | tyingq wrote:
         | Trying to determine if you're taunting python devs or not :)
        
         | delgaudm wrote:
         | Wicked.
        
         | jsiaajdsdaa wrote:
         | When I write code with whitespace enforced, I feel my brain
         | slowly falling away from me. But with Python being so popular,
         | I wonder if people look at me like I'm a freak on a leash.
        
           | gleenn wrote:
           | Coming from writing a lot of lisp, all day I dream about
           | s-expressions
        
             | stuntkite wrote:
             | All of y'all doing this gives me incalculable joy for
             | reasons I don't even fully understand myself.
             | 
             | Thank you. Shine on you crazy WABBLABA DOOOOOO BADIBA DIBBA
             | GO!s
        
           | gabrielsroka wrote:
           | I feel like that sometimes.
        
           | michaelsbradley wrote:
           | As a fan of Lisp/Scheme, I find it's a bit like parens: if
           | one's editor mostly takes care of it (auto de/indenting) then
           | it's not that bad, otherwise it can get annoying quickly.
           | 
           | The teams/projects I've been part of the last couple of years
           | make heavy use of Nim, which is whitespace delimited. My
           | editor is Emacs and lsp-mode + nimlsp (latter is the LSP
           | server; lsp-mode also leverages nim-mode) do an okay-ish job,
           | but not a great one to be honest. Some days I really wish for
           | curly braces.
        
             | jsiaajdsdaa wrote:
             | Any time that is not spent thinking about how to model data
             | and behavior in your domain is a genuine waste ;)
        
       | excalibur wrote:
       | Saw Korn last night, and against all odds here they are on the
       | front page of HN. Looks like the mitten is well represented here.
        
         | malkia wrote:
         | Saw them last month + System of a Down + Helmet + Russian
         | Circles.
        
         | Ancapistani wrote:
         | I caught the first show on this tour, in Springfield, MO.
         | 
         | It's honestly amazing how well Davis in particular has held up.
         | I first saw them in concert in ~2003, and if anything I think
         | their show's energy has _increased_.
         | 
         | It's weird being at a Korn concert in 2022 with my teen
         | daughter. There is a lot of that these days; we were far from
         | the only ones.
        
           | KerrAvon wrote:
           | Nostalgia acts have always been a draw for families. Back in
           | the 90's the parents would bring the kids to see Crosby
           | Stills and Nash, that sort of thing.
        
         | jahn716 wrote:
         | TIL Korn is still performing.
         | 
         | Hope the show was good!
        
           | copperx wrote:
           | Why wouldn't they? They haven't stopped writing and recording
           | albums.
        
             | cyberpunk wrote:
             | Yeah but everything including and after issues is rubbish
             | compared to their first few albums ;)
        
       | chajath wrote:
       | Slightly off topic but, while we are talking about Korn the band,
       | here is an insightful retrospective by David Silveria on music
       | and technology:
       | https://www.facebook.com/david.r.silveria/posts/662560027105...
        
       | TAKEMYMONEY wrote:
       | (2000)
        
       | kyasui wrote:
       | I remember eating in the Google NYC cafeterias and seeing an
       | older gentleman ALWAYS wearing a KORN t-shirt. Turns out it
       | was...
        
         | endtime wrote:
         | When I worked on Fiber wifi and sat on the second floor (after
         | it was renovated with a "movement" theme, but still kind of
         | dungeony), David sat across the aisle from me. I didn't know
         | who he was at first, and just thought of him as "perhaps the
         | only extant person my parents' age who listened to the same
         | music I did in middle school".
         | 
         | (And when Fiber's headcount got substantially cut and I needed
         | to find a new team, I ended up working in "Kornistan", so named
         | because the org was run by David's son Jeff.)
        
         | oh_sigh wrote:
         | If you see a 68 year old badged employee at Google, almost
         | certainly they are a god
        
           | taylorfinley wrote:
           | This is a sad indicator of ageism in tech
        
             | PragmaticPulp wrote:
             | 68 year old engineers have usually retired long ago _by
             | choice_. Engineering pays well. There aren 't many 65-70+
             | year old engineers who are even still interested in
             | working, let alone keeping up with modern technologies.
             | 
             | Anyone sticking around that long at a famous company is
             | almost certainly in it for the love of all things
             | computers, not because they need the money.
        
       | Erwin wrote:
       | One of the earliest UNIX legend stories I remember being told was
       | this one about a Korn-like shell being announced in Windows, with
       | Korn himself asking some pointed questions about compatibility:
       | https://wiki.c2.com/?KornShellStory
       | 
       | (Remember those crazy days of MS Windows claiming POSIX
       | compatibility so it could win some government bid?)
        
       | dhosek wrote:
       | I had to go to Wikipedia to see if ksh was named after the band,1
       | but it turns out that it was created by David Korn and not a
       | metal fan.
       | 
       | [?]
       | 
       | 1. Not completely inconceivably given that Python gets its name
       | from Monty Python. I'm thinking there are other similarly fandom-
       | based namings of popular tech tools (the only other one that
       | comes to mind is the occasional assertion that Knuth's choice of
       | TeX was to honor his alma mater CalTech2).
       | 
       | 2. I created a short-lived California TeX Users Group in the late
       | 80s/early 90s which we dubbed CTUG after being warned off naming
       | it CalTeX (but being at Harvey Mudd College3 at the time, I was
       | disinclined to name it that anyway).
       | 
       | 3. Which, of course, summons to mind one of my favorite pranks4
       | in the HMC-CalTech rivalry in which the freeway sign identifying
       | the exit for CalTech and Pasadena Community College had
       | parentheses added so it read "CalTech (Pasadena Community
       | College)"
       | 
       | 4. Most people would consider the Fleming cannon theft to be the
       | pinnacle of the pranks (when I had my pre-frosh campus visit, the
       | cannon had just arrived on the Mudd campus), but I think the
       | freeway sign gets points for being more creative.
        
         | mprovost wrote:
         | There's a great story from 1998 about David Korn, if I tried to
         | sum it up I'd give away the punchline...
         | 
         | https://wiki.c2.com/?KornShellStory
        
           | michaelcampbell wrote:
           | That and the one about Mel are 2 of my favorites.
        
           | Infernal wrote:
           | For those on mobile: https://web.archive.org/web/201708031052
           | 01/https://wiki.c2.c...
        
       | edmcnulty101 wrote:
       | Eat corn while listening to Korn music while using the Korn
       | shell.
        
         | markstos wrote:
         | I designed a keyboard case for the Corne keyboard shaped like a
         | corn husk... I was going to buy yellow keycaps to look like
         | corn kernels against the green case, but my preferred keycap
         | profile wasn't available in yellow.
        
         | amcpu wrote:
         | > Eat corn while listening to Korn music while using the Korn
         | shell. ... to compile the kernel.
        
           | kstrauser wrote:
           | You seem to have an ear for puns.
        
           | sgt wrote:
           | Finally HN has reddit beat on puns.
        
         | themodelplumber wrote:
         | The other day I was generating a fictional character using [1]
         | and the random tables dictated that their superpower was
         | activated by eating corn (just the husks). Corn husks are
         | definitely an underrated superfood.
         | 
         | 1. https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/222468/Heroes-
         | Unlimited...
        
         | oh_sigh wrote:
         | Perhaps you can be designing transonic airfoils in your korn
         | shell, in which case you can use the Korn equation to help
         | analyze their performance (created by the same dave korn).
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | pizzaknife wrote:
       | All Day I Dream About Shell ?
        
         | T-zex wrote:
         | all day I dream about scripting
        
           | pizzaknife wrote:
           | could you format this as a process query piped to awk?
        
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       (page generated 2022-03-24 23:01 UTC)