[HN Gopher] Korn Meets KoRN
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Korn Meets KoRN
Author : sgt
Score : 321 points
Date : 2022-03-24 13:58 UTC (9 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.kornshell.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.kornshell.com)
| tbojanin wrote:
| This is hilarious, great photos
| racl101 wrote:
| KoIaN members are probably like: "what the fuck is a shell"?
| DeathArrow wrote:
| Slipknot fans will be able to help:
|
| Inside my shell I wait and bleed.
| sgt wrote:
| Wait and bleed, but only if the wait was successful.
| [deleted]
| skrebbel wrote:
| My working theory is that the majority of metal musicians runs
| _at least_ Arch, but I 'm not sure if that extends to Numetal
| from the nineties.
| darrenf wrote:
| Arch Enemy probably don't.
| NDizzle wrote:
| This is my favorite HN thread in a while, already.
|
| Although, thinking about how to explain these jokes to
| anyone else is difficult. I'll just leave my chuckling
| confined to my office.
| madengr wrote:
| rascul wrote:
| Don't they need to tell people they run Arch?
| 130e13a wrote:
| my guess would be that the majority of metal fans who also
| run Arch will probably have significant overlap with the
| section of the metal fan base which does not consider nu
| metal to be metal in the first place
| wirrbel wrote:
| Pretty sure they don't containerize with docker because
| they prefer bare metal.
| marapuru wrote:
| Relevant band: Arch Echo
| channel_t wrote:
| I remember being 12 years old in 1996 looking for Korn websites
| on AltaVista and found that a solid half of the links being
| returned were ksh guides. Maybe that's how I turned into such a
| Unix geek.
| giantrobot wrote:
| Unix: not even once.
| h2odragon wrote:
| https://wh0rd.ca/humor/text/Adequacy_org20%20Is%20Your%20Son.
| ..
| ncphil wrote:
| My first experience with the korn shell was 20 years ago while
| trying to prove myself worthy of root on the Solaris boxes that
| hosted the LDAP servers (iPlanet, of course) I was responsible
| for. I'd done a lot of Windows shell scripting before that, and
| had installed Red Hat Linux to a beat up Packard Bell in 1995,
| but was floored by the seemingly limitless capabilities of Unix
| userland utilities under the control of ksh. At first I made due
| with the man pages, but soon started studying Aeleen Frisch's
| classic Essential System Administration, and finally got hold of
| the O'Reilly animal book for Korn. I eventually moved on to bash
| after helping convince my company to get on RHEL, but those
| formative experiences with ksh will stay with me forever. Tech is
| my second career, and has only really paid off in the last 10, so
| I'm among those over 60 guys who will probably stick around past
| full retirement age (here in the US for those in my age cohort
| that's 67).
| sgt wrote:
| You never stop learning. Sounds like you've learned lots of the
| fundamentals that will be super useful in the next 10 years as
| well!
| comprev wrote:
| Thank you HN, this thread has genuinely brightened my week.
| ilamont wrote:
| That was unexpected. Could take things a bit further with
| chapters or elements that have fun with lyrics, "Phreak on a
| Leash" etc.
|
| Speaking of KoRN: I never got into the band, but they featured in
| the excellent Woodstock 99 documentary which is as much a
| commentary on cultural and demographic shifts as it is about
| music.
| sgt wrote:
| Thank you for that tip - I need to find a copy of the Woodstock
| 99 documentary.
| KORraN wrote:
| Never expected KoRN to be on HN's front page. Half of my nickname
| comes from the band.
|
| I guess it's time to refresh some memories from the past,
| Spotify.
| sgt wrote:
| Spotify will definitely be seeing a surge of KoRN requests
| tonight.
| conradfr wrote:
| To be fair they released a new album last month.
| mzvkxlcvd wrote:
| is ksh still relevant today? at my first job i worked on IBM AIX
| systems that only supported ksh, and all the old timers were
| convinced that bash was inferior
| amatecha wrote:
| Yup, it's the default shell in OpenBSD ( see 4th-last bullet
| point at https://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq1.html#OtherUnixes )
| prg318 wrote:
| I've worked at a shop with a _lot_ of legacy code and a very
| fragile build environment. The myriad of scripts that source
| scripts that source other scripts to produce a working build
| were all written in KSH - as well as the majority of the tools
| to set up an environment to actually run the software. Since
| these scripts were intended to be sourced, adding a shebang
| doesn 't solve the issue at all.
|
| Fortunately, zsh can operate in ksh emulation mode [1] so I was
| able to leverage zsh while I was there to some extent.
|
| The system I worked on there is still being actively used and
| developed today and still relies on a fragile set of ksh
| scripts to build and run in certain environments.
|
| [1]
| https://zsh.sourceforge.io/Doc/Release/Invocation.html#Compa...
| kps wrote:
| I use it, both interactively and for scripts.
|
| One reason is that its `getopts` makes it very easy to provide
| full short and long option processing with help messages;
| script boilerplate is something like usage=$'
| [-1] [a:a-long-option?Help text]:[number]
| [b:bool-long-option?Helpful text] ' while
| getopts "$usage" c do typeset
| opt_$c="${OPTARG:-1}" done
|
| Another is that the final command of a pipeline runs in the
| shell environment, so that you can do things like
| bunch | of | commands | while
| read some stuff do
| RESULTS[$some]="$stuff" done
|
| and then use the $RESULTS. That is fairly painful in bash;
| basically you have to wrap the entire rest of the script in {
| ... }.
| kasabali wrote:
| I was an avid reader of RHEL release notes during 6.x/7.x times
| and I was surprised to see ksh package not only being shipped
| but being actively maintained and getting several bug fixes at
| every point release.
|
| So yes, somebody still must've been using it.
| necheffa wrote:
| I can almost guarantee in some dark corner there is an
| organization still using ksh. I know because I have encountered
| this for different, otherwise defunct shells.
| DeathArrow wrote:
| Now I want an Iron Maiden thread. :)
| Minor49er wrote:
| I've had some Issues with KornShell. I wrote a quick unit
| Counting script, kind of a Dirty hack to try it out. "Let's Get
| This Party Started," I thought as I hit enter on my keyboard,
| eager to see the units print on my screen. But it couldn't even
| count to "4 U". Instead, it printed "./count.sh[3]: syntax error:
| `(' unexpected" and just stopped Dead. I tried again, thinking
| It's Gonna Go Away. Nope, No Way. Am I Going Crazy? Somebody
| Somewhere has to know what's going wrong. Before long, I realized
| I had to Wake Up and face the truth that KornShell is very
| particular about whitespace. Those of you who only write in
| modern languages and environments, I Wish You Could Be Me for
| just a moment to realize how nice you have it today and how you
| don't have to put up with Trash that can't parse without
| whitespace.
| brainwipe wrote:
| Glad you didn't get into a Twist.
| brainwipe wrote:
| True-fact^1: the song was actually Jonathan Davies reading
| out 68000 assembler.
|
| [1] Not really.
| hestefisk wrote:
| I thought more a well-written Perl script.
| kstrauser wrote:
| I'm glad someone's Got The Life style that lets them try these
| experiments.
| naiv wrote:
| Wow. This is so creative :)
|
| I counted 11 KoRn songs in there. (If counted correctly)
| pedrogpimenta wrote:
| I count 13!
|
| Edit: Issues, Counting, Dirty, Let's Get This Party Started,
| 4 U, Dead, It's Gonna Go Away, No Way, Am I Going Crazy?,
| Somebody Somewhere, Wake Up, I Wish You Could Be Me, Trash
| comprev wrote:
| "Follow The Leader" album started on track 13 :-)
| gigaflop wrote:
| Did you check to see if one of your transistors was twisted?
| You'd have to be blind to miss something like that.
| tyingq wrote:
| Trying to determine if you're taunting python devs or not :)
| delgaudm wrote:
| Wicked.
| jsiaajdsdaa wrote:
| When I write code with whitespace enforced, I feel my brain
| slowly falling away from me. But with Python being so popular,
| I wonder if people look at me like I'm a freak on a leash.
| gleenn wrote:
| Coming from writing a lot of lisp, all day I dream about
| s-expressions
| stuntkite wrote:
| All of y'all doing this gives me incalculable joy for
| reasons I don't even fully understand myself.
|
| Thank you. Shine on you crazy WABBLABA DOOOOOO BADIBA DIBBA
| GO!s
| gabrielsroka wrote:
| I feel like that sometimes.
| michaelsbradley wrote:
| As a fan of Lisp/Scheme, I find it's a bit like parens: if
| one's editor mostly takes care of it (auto de/indenting) then
| it's not that bad, otherwise it can get annoying quickly.
|
| The teams/projects I've been part of the last couple of years
| make heavy use of Nim, which is whitespace delimited. My
| editor is Emacs and lsp-mode + nimlsp (latter is the LSP
| server; lsp-mode also leverages nim-mode) do an okay-ish job,
| but not a great one to be honest. Some days I really wish for
| curly braces.
| jsiaajdsdaa wrote:
| Any time that is not spent thinking about how to model data
| and behavior in your domain is a genuine waste ;)
| excalibur wrote:
| Saw Korn last night, and against all odds here they are on the
| front page of HN. Looks like the mitten is well represented here.
| malkia wrote:
| Saw them last month + System of a Down + Helmet + Russian
| Circles.
| Ancapistani wrote:
| I caught the first show on this tour, in Springfield, MO.
|
| It's honestly amazing how well Davis in particular has held up.
| I first saw them in concert in ~2003, and if anything I think
| their show's energy has _increased_.
|
| It's weird being at a Korn concert in 2022 with my teen
| daughter. There is a lot of that these days; we were far from
| the only ones.
| KerrAvon wrote:
| Nostalgia acts have always been a draw for families. Back in
| the 90's the parents would bring the kids to see Crosby
| Stills and Nash, that sort of thing.
| jahn716 wrote:
| TIL Korn is still performing.
|
| Hope the show was good!
| copperx wrote:
| Why wouldn't they? They haven't stopped writing and recording
| albums.
| cyberpunk wrote:
| Yeah but everything including and after issues is rubbish
| compared to their first few albums ;)
| chajath wrote:
| Slightly off topic but, while we are talking about Korn the band,
| here is an insightful retrospective by David Silveria on music
| and technology:
| https://www.facebook.com/david.r.silveria/posts/662560027105...
| TAKEMYMONEY wrote:
| (2000)
| kyasui wrote:
| I remember eating in the Google NYC cafeterias and seeing an
| older gentleman ALWAYS wearing a KORN t-shirt. Turns out it
| was...
| endtime wrote:
| When I worked on Fiber wifi and sat on the second floor (after
| it was renovated with a "movement" theme, but still kind of
| dungeony), David sat across the aisle from me. I didn't know
| who he was at first, and just thought of him as "perhaps the
| only extant person my parents' age who listened to the same
| music I did in middle school".
|
| (And when Fiber's headcount got substantially cut and I needed
| to find a new team, I ended up working in "Kornistan", so named
| because the org was run by David's son Jeff.)
| oh_sigh wrote:
| If you see a 68 year old badged employee at Google, almost
| certainly they are a god
| taylorfinley wrote:
| This is a sad indicator of ageism in tech
| PragmaticPulp wrote:
| 68 year old engineers have usually retired long ago _by
| choice_. Engineering pays well. There aren 't many 65-70+
| year old engineers who are even still interested in
| working, let alone keeping up with modern technologies.
|
| Anyone sticking around that long at a famous company is
| almost certainly in it for the love of all things
| computers, not because they need the money.
| Erwin wrote:
| One of the earliest UNIX legend stories I remember being told was
| this one about a Korn-like shell being announced in Windows, with
| Korn himself asking some pointed questions about compatibility:
| https://wiki.c2.com/?KornShellStory
|
| (Remember those crazy days of MS Windows claiming POSIX
| compatibility so it could win some government bid?)
| dhosek wrote:
| I had to go to Wikipedia to see if ksh was named after the band,1
| but it turns out that it was created by David Korn and not a
| metal fan.
|
| [?]
|
| 1. Not completely inconceivably given that Python gets its name
| from Monty Python. I'm thinking there are other similarly fandom-
| based namings of popular tech tools (the only other one that
| comes to mind is the occasional assertion that Knuth's choice of
| TeX was to honor his alma mater CalTech2).
|
| 2. I created a short-lived California TeX Users Group in the late
| 80s/early 90s which we dubbed CTUG after being warned off naming
| it CalTeX (but being at Harvey Mudd College3 at the time, I was
| disinclined to name it that anyway).
|
| 3. Which, of course, summons to mind one of my favorite pranks4
| in the HMC-CalTech rivalry in which the freeway sign identifying
| the exit for CalTech and Pasadena Community College had
| parentheses added so it read "CalTech (Pasadena Community
| College)"
|
| 4. Most people would consider the Fleming cannon theft to be the
| pinnacle of the pranks (when I had my pre-frosh campus visit, the
| cannon had just arrived on the Mudd campus), but I think the
| freeway sign gets points for being more creative.
| mprovost wrote:
| There's a great story from 1998 about David Korn, if I tried to
| sum it up I'd give away the punchline...
|
| https://wiki.c2.com/?KornShellStory
| michaelcampbell wrote:
| That and the one about Mel are 2 of my favorites.
| Infernal wrote:
| For those on mobile: https://web.archive.org/web/201708031052
| 01/https://wiki.c2.c...
| edmcnulty101 wrote:
| Eat corn while listening to Korn music while using the Korn
| shell.
| markstos wrote:
| I designed a keyboard case for the Corne keyboard shaped like a
| corn husk... I was going to buy yellow keycaps to look like
| corn kernels against the green case, but my preferred keycap
| profile wasn't available in yellow.
| amcpu wrote:
| > Eat corn while listening to Korn music while using the Korn
| shell. ... to compile the kernel.
| kstrauser wrote:
| You seem to have an ear for puns.
| sgt wrote:
| Finally HN has reddit beat on puns.
| themodelplumber wrote:
| The other day I was generating a fictional character using [1]
| and the random tables dictated that their superpower was
| activated by eating corn (just the husks). Corn husks are
| definitely an underrated superfood.
|
| 1. https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/222468/Heroes-
| Unlimited...
| oh_sigh wrote:
| Perhaps you can be designing transonic airfoils in your korn
| shell, in which case you can use the Korn equation to help
| analyze their performance (created by the same dave korn).
| [deleted]
| pizzaknife wrote:
| All Day I Dream About Shell ?
| T-zex wrote:
| all day I dream about scripting
| pizzaknife wrote:
| could you format this as a process query piped to awk?
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(page generated 2022-03-24 23:01 UTC)