[HN Gopher] Google routinely hides emails from litigation by CCi...
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Google routinely hides emails from litigation by CCing attorneys,
DOJ alleges
Author : HieronymusBosch
Score : 60 points
Date : 2022-03-22 20:22 UTC (2 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (arstechnica.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (arstechnica.com)
| [deleted]
| vmception wrote:
| > The DOJ also said, "it is well settled that copying an attorney
| does not confer privilege" on its own.
|
| One of my financial success goals was to have the lawyers that
| would be able to cite the case law supporting a statement like
| that.
|
| I have that for some industries (and its a fools errand to have
| it for all industries all the time), and have learned a lot along
| the way. Its interesting to see organizations employ the utility
| of lawyers to this degree.
|
| Aside from having reality shaping counsel, I like that it raises
| the cost of investigation by orders of magnitude. Makes the
| government think twice, or thrice, before inconveniencing anyone.
| gonzo41 wrote:
| Imagine if that publicly traded company was pouring PFAS
| chemicals into drinking water supplies and using the same
| tactic. Except the local towns couldn't afford to fight so just
| had to put up with the externality of cancer in their children.
| But we're glad their not inconvenienced by an investigation?
| vmception wrote:
| You can imagine whatever you want.
|
| You chose to imagine an uncollaborative and harmful thing,
| there are just as many benign things to imagine.
| revolvingocelot wrote:
| _You_ chose to open a discussion on how great it is to have
| such sharp lawyers that their very presence discourages
| government investigation into a corporation 's doings. What
| sort of doings require such shielding? Collaborative and
| harmless ones, surely?
|
| I can't imagine many benign things that one would feel the
| need to cloak behind attorney-client privilege. Maybe a
| surprise party for a DOJ investigator?
| vmception wrote:
| We live in different worlds I don't care enough to make
| examples but I do care enough to notice how routine this
| can become once you've gone out of the way to lay down
| the building blocks.
|
| Google and some email clients suggest who to CC nowadays.
| You dont have to think about it. The counsel is already
| hired and there. Just CC and who cares what is being
| discussed. Thats what the article is about.
|
| Think about the difference in power, many people get a
| lawyer for a reactionary reason. Because the threat and
| damage already occurred, the utility of a lawyer is
| extremely limited.
|
| Alternatively when a lawyer is there preemptively, at all
| times, the threat is simply harder to materialize.
|
| My point is that its much less likely that people were
| consciously trying to hide something - most of the time -
| which is my point. Everything can have a semblance of
| legal advice, putting the onus on the government to parse
| that first or decide if its even worth parsing that, in
| comparison to just getting a subpoena rubber stamped and
| railroading someone into prison. One is more expensive
| than the other. "Hm we don't know what they did, what
| legal strategy they employed, and even _if_ we got a
| subpoena on the little evidence we have, we cant use any
| of their communications for evidence, attempting parallel
| construction will leave us caught red handed, and we
| already know they have the funds to see this through,
| maybe we should stick with someone that cant afford their
| base level of rights"
|
| Like a lawyer, it is extremely easy for me to
| compartmentalize my appreciation of the tools from the
| theoretical negative consequence you chose to imagine. I
| chose to imagine all the people that take plea deals from
| an overzealous government.
| Traster wrote:
| I don't know why you'd be happy having the investigation cost
| orders of magnitude more, in a functioning democracy that's
| just straight up more money on your tax bill. Oh wait...
| greenyoda wrote:
| Big discussion yesterday:
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30760923
| ykevinator2 wrote:
| I think I'm on googles side on this one. We can change the rule
| if we don't like it but it's more clever than anything abusive.
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