[HN Gopher] Silicon Valley's supposed obsession with tech-free p...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Silicon Valley's supposed obsession with tech-free private schools
       (2019)
        
       Author : williamsmj
       Score  : 29 points
       Date   : 2022-03-20 20:37 UTC (2 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (lareviewofbooks.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (lareviewofbooks.org)
        
       | WalterBright wrote:
       | On the other hand, tech in the classroom has never been
       | demonstrated to improve educational results at all, other than
       | for various disabled kids, who have been helped by it.
        
       | rektide wrote:
       | im interested in the opposute, in not just teaching via
       | technology, but in trying to create an empowered enriched
       | relationship with technology.
       | 
       | in my fabtasy worldclasses are setting up & adminhing their own
       | clusters, are playing with userscripts & social web protocols,
       | are creating nodebots.
       | 
       | im not really sure where to look, where the vanguard forces might
       | be. huge respect to projects like the first robotics competiton
       | but that still feels like a narrow course, one where the digital
       | has some co-incident, but feels extra-curricular & dominated by
       | other mechatronics concerns.
        
         | jmathai wrote:
         | I used to think that until my kids got to be 9+ years old and
         | the negative effects of technology became very real. Not all
         | technology is bad but it is hard to draw a line between good
         | and bad. Impossible, IMO.
        
           | nostrademons wrote:
           | What negative effects, out of curiosity? My kids are a fair
           | bit younger and I'm generally pretty positive on technology
           | but am interested in what you've noticed.
        
             | WalterBright wrote:
             | Kids belong outside running around, setting up their own
             | kickball games, building forts, skateboarding, etc.
             | 
             | There's a picture of me outside as a boy wearing shorts,
             | and my shins were bruised from ankle to knee. Obviously,
             | I'd been out having fun :-)
        
               | copperx wrote:
               | Being the devil's advocate for a second: why? If they
               | become adult white collar workers they will be indoors
               | most of the time, interacting with technology. I loved
               | being outside as a kid and teen, but is it really
               | deleterious if the new generations don't get exposed to
               | that?
        
             | judge2020 wrote:
             | In general it's very attractive to see the entertainment
             | value in technology and succumb to babysitting your child
             | by sitting them in front of an iPad for hours at a time.
        
             | nonrandomstring wrote:
             | Here is a good resource on the manifest harms of consumer
             | digital communications technology (smartphones) on young
             | people [1]
             | 
             | [1] https://ledger.humanetech.com/
        
         | Tanjreeve wrote:
         | Learning to actually use technology "actively" and/or
         | creatively isnt the same thing as the "passive" use that gets
         | pushed on the public through the infinite scroll, constant
         | surveillance and psychological manipulation that people worry
         | about.
        
           | nonrandomstring wrote:
           | As a computer scientist and dad, I have this very simple
           | maxim (see [1] for more)
           | 
           | "We should teach our children about technology, not allow
           | them to be taught _by_ technology."
           | 
           | [1] https://digitalvegan.net
        
       | zaptheimpaler wrote:
       | it sounds like the author confronting their own inferiority
       | complex.. "techies" are somehow the smartest people in the room,
       | but also they actually aren't and are full of hubris.
       | 
       | i dont get this weird journalist hate fest about "techies" as if
       | average software engineers call the shots on what their employers
       | do either. its such a well orchestrated distraction. the average
       | engineers job is to execute, not to decide what to build. just
       | like every other industry, a few people at the top call the shots
       | on what to do, the rest of us are executing or making tiny
       | decisions on _how_ to do it. me and Mark Zuckerberg are both
       | "techies"... no difference right?
        
         | civilized wrote:
         | Tech destroyed journalism's ad-driven revenue model over a
         | decade ago, and their attitude since then has been a mixture of
         | inferiority complex and white-hot rage and contempt.
         | 
         | Also, hearing "learn to code" on Twitter pissed them off.
        
         | nonrandomstring wrote:
         | I agree. Something about the tone of this article felt
         | fundamentally dishonest (perhaps an edu-tech puff piece) and
         | too keen to prove a point about a whole class of people using
         | vague allusions.
         | 
         | > "technologists know how phones really work, and many have
         | decided they don't want their own children anywhere near them"
         | 
         | I do. And I have. Although I speak for only one technologist.
         | 
         | > "These articles assume that techies have access to secret
         | wisdom about the harmful effects of technology on children."
         | 
         | Some of us do because we _design_ it, and under conditions of
         | NDA. Only recently leaks of emails proved this precise point.
         | Many more of us have "not-secret" wisdom as we proudly publish
         | scientific papers about it. Moral judgements aside, we know
         | what this stuff does. But the author attempts to insinuate the
         | language of conspiracy.
         | 
         | > "Based on two decades of living among, working with, and
         | researching Silicon Valley technology employees, I can
         | confidently assert that this secret knowledge does not exist."
         | 
         | Then either the author has not been living, working and
         | researching very well, or his confidence is misplaced.
        
       | frozenport wrote:
       | >>> These articles assume that techies have access to secret
       | wisdom about the harmful effects of technology on children. Based
       | on two decades of living among, working with, and researching
       | Silicon Valley technology employees, I can confidently assert
       | that this secret knowledge does not exist.
       | 
       | LOL, this didn't age well. See for example Facebook's attempt to
       | suppress reports on how their technology is harmful to teen
       | girls.
        
         | vletal wrote:
         | Mark was on Lexes podcast counter arguing against that. Any
         | link? I'm really interested in the source material.
        
         | tick_tock_tick wrote:
         | > See for example Facebook's attempt to suppress reports on how
         | their technology is harmful to teen girls.
         | 
         | Pretty sure that was confirmed as sensational reporting at best
         | almost immediately. Though the major news organization didn't
         | let facts get in the way of dunking on Facebook.
        
         | ALittleLight wrote:
         | I think the idea that Facebook is "harmful to teen girls" is
         | just media sensationalism. That's not an accurate
         | representation of what Facebook's internal reports showed. The
         | report had 12 measures of well-being and found that instagram
         | had positive impact on 11/12 and negative impact on 1/12. The
         | media, naturally, sums this up as "Facebook knows it harms
         | girls and does it anyway!!!"
         | 
         | https://about.fb.com/news/2021/09/research-teen-well-being-a...
         | 
         | In my view, it's quite positive that Facebook is studying the
         | impact of their platform on teens. I don't think that's a
         | standard that major media companies, e.g. The Wall Street
         | Journal or The New York Times, live up to. I also think it's
         | commendable that Facebook internally confronts problems with
         | their product in terms of impact on teens. I have some concerns
         | that the media's hysterics will disincentivize companies from
         | studying this kind of thing for fear that it will exploited by
         | the media.
        
       ___________________________________________________________________
       (page generated 2022-03-20 23:00 UTC)