[HN Gopher] Silicon Valley's sex censorship harms everyone
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       Silicon Valley's sex censorship harms everyone
        
       Author : laurex
       Score  : 126 points
       Date   : 2022-03-20 20:36 UTC (2 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.wired.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.wired.com)
        
       | jarjoura wrote:
       | What is this post about exactly? Reddit has more porn than any
       | one person can possibly see in a lifetime. Twitter too.
       | 
       | Apple and Facebook took a middle of the line approach to avoid
       | offending people.
       | 
       | Also sex is a hard line to walk. There's just so much shady shit
       | out there that is exploitative and done in bad faith. It's much
       | easier to set conservative rules and leave other dedicated spaces
       | for more provocative content.
        
         | IfOnlyYouKnew wrote:
         | I don't necessarily disagree, except with the characterization
         | of Apple and Facebook as taking some sort of 'middle line'? I
         | guess Apple doesn't actively prevent me from watching porn on
         | that sweet pro display xdr. But Facebook doesn't even allow
         | non-erotic nudity. It's PG-Pope, as far as I can tell.
        
       | jchw wrote:
       | I am almost 100% with this article and would often go even
       | further, and I absolutely agree that marginalized people are
       | going to be disproportionately affected. However, there are a
       | couple assertions that seemed a bit dubious. For example:
       | 
       | > Danielle Blunt, a queer-identified sex worker with a master's
       | in Public Health who's spent time observing the phenomenon, notes
       | that she's seen Instagram ban hashtags like #femdom and even
       | #women--while #maledom remains available.
       | 
       | I'm not exactly a porn or sex work connoisseur, but my immediate
       | first thought is that I've actually _heard_ the term "femdom" but
       | never maledom. Of course, that could just be a lack of
       | understanding on my part, but at least a cursory search seems to
       | agree: femdom is a dramatically more popular term. I searched
       | both on Google (which is a nice thing to have sitting in my
       | search history, I'm sure) and moved a couple pages back to
       | hopefully grab a more accurate result count, and got the measure
       | 1,880,000,000 /22,200,000 = 84x more popular. Exactly why is
       | unclear, but my guess is that maledom is more often lumped into
       | the larger BDSM umbrella and not distinguished. I suspect many
       | popular BDSM terms that are not gendered are also blocked.
       | 
       | Of course, I could be wrong. I don't have an instagram account,
       | so I can't verify how often these terms are used on such websites
       | even if I wanted to.
       | 
       | Still, it goes on to continue draw this sex puritanism as being
       | firmly gendered, but I think that this is _not_ a result of
       | Silicon Valley's weird obsession with puritanism. Rather, the
       | reason why some non-explicit sexual content is allowed and other
       | non-explicit sexual content is not runs a lot deeper than just SV
       | companies, and is the result of the general culture we have for
       | what is "safe" and what is not safe. This is definitely 100% for
       | sure biased, but that was never not the case, and certainly not
       | an invention of Twitter or Instagram. Tumblr's infamous "female-
       | presenting nipples" line definitely is insultingly stupid, but
       | its insulting stupidity rooted in deep American traditions of
       | having double-standards.
       | 
       | If you disregard our bizarre cultural inequities regarding what
       | sexual content is "safe", what remains is a very clear issue:
       | payment processors and advertisers (and some other gatekeepers,
       | like the App Store) yield immense control over the entire modern
       | Internet. I don't even think it's necessarily an issue with
       | Silicon Valley specifically.
       | 
       | I was really hoping cryptocurrency would help provide a balance,
       | but instead it looks like the primary function of cryptocurrency
       | is to launder money and provide another place to gamble.
       | Unfortunate, but oh well.
        
       | antattack wrote:
       | Sex censorship seems to be benefiting music videos. And IMO the
       | videos make the sex more twisted than then reality, something
       | like magazines and healthy body image.
        
       | elevenoh wrote:
        
       | bradlys wrote:
       | I find it weird that "Silicon Valley" is to blame here. This is
       | the result of DC's actions - not SV. Which is mostly coming from
       | the religious right who are big funders/power-holders and dislike
       | sexual imagery and non-fundamental norms in the public eye.
       | 
       | SV is just going with where the $$$ are at and complying with the
       | law. They don't give a shit about anything else as long as stonkz
       | go up.
        
         | rayiner wrote:
         | > Which is mostly coming from the religious right who are big
         | funders/power-holders and dislike sexual imagery and non-
         | fundamental norms in the public eye.
         | 
         | The universe of people who "dislike sexual imagery" is a lot
         | broader than the (evangelical Christian) "religious right."
         | Left-leaning Black and Hispanic Christians, non-Christian
         | socially conservative groups (Muslims, Hindus), non-religious
         | socially conservative groups (many East Asians), and also sex-
         | negative feminists have similar attitudes toward sex and sex
         | work.
         | 
         | That's why these laws have broad bipartisan support. "Sex work
         | is work" is an area where (generally sex-positive) progressives
         | and libertarians agree, but those two groups combined are still
         | a pretty small constituency.
        
           | jimbob45 wrote:
           | I agree with this. It's easy to point to some other group to
           | blame on this but I don't meet many people in any group in
           | the US who would be okay with children seeing nudity on TV.
           | Contrast my experience with Scandinavia, where nude saunas
           | are the norm and maybe it seems like the US just hasn't yet
           | progressed to sexual normalization.
           | 
           | Is that even a bad thing though? Who's to say the
           | Scandinavians aren't messing their kids up with all the
           | nudity? Who's to say the Americans aren't messing their kids
           | up with their Puritanical approach to sex? I feel that nobody
           | knows the answer right now and we're most comfortable not
           | changing anything until we do.
        
         | greyface- wrote:
         | Apple, historically, has taken an anti-porn stance.
         | https://www.wired.com/2010/04/steve-jobs-porn/
        
         | colpabar wrote:
         | My understanding is that the payment processors hold the power
         | here.
         | 
         | https://www.thedailybeast.com/why-mastercards-new-porn-rules...
         | 
         | CESTA/FOSTA definitely plays a part, but why would mastercard
         | wait until 2021 to make these new rules?
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | rkk3 wrote:
         | > Which is mostly coming from the religious right who are big
         | funders/power-holders and dislike sexual imagery and non-
         | fundamental norms in the public eye.
         | 
         | The Religious Right? Nicholas Kristof of the NYT, is probably
         | the most powerful individual sex censor - the guy
         | singlehandedly got Pornhub financially de-platformed!
        
           | devmor wrote:
           | To be fair, getting pornhub punished wasn't hard. They were
           | hosting child pornography.
        
             | rkk3 wrote:
             | It wasn't hard to de-platform them because they are a vice
             | company, not because of what was on there servers
             | unintentionally. By your standard Meta/FB/Insta are much
             | worse perpetrators of hosting child pornography
        
           | IfOnlyYouKnew wrote:
           | Pornhub's problem wasn't sex. It was revenge porn, authentic
           | rape videos, and all the other content you will host if you
           | allow anonymous uploads.
           | 
           | Not seeing that there is a difference between content
           | intended for public distribution and content that is not is
           | arguably part of the problem here. (Or, even worse,
           | considering someone having sex and someone being raped to be
           | morally equivalent.)
        
             | rkk3 wrote:
             | > Pornhub's problem wasn't sex. It was revenge porn,
             | authentic rape videos, and all the other content you will
             | host if you allow anonymous uploads.
             | 
             | Meta/FB/Insta/Whatsapp/Messenger were & are responsible for
             | facilitating significantly more of all of the above
             | terrible things. Of course the problem was sex and that
             | they are a vice company, it made them an easy moral outrage
             | target.
        
         | rodgerd wrote:
         | > I find it weird that "Silicon Valley" is to blame here.
         | 
         | Even before FOSTA/SESTA companies like Facebook, CloudFlare,
         | and PayPal have fought far, far harder for the rights of far-
         | right groups than they even have for sex workers.
        
           | TheTester wrote:
        
         | jdrc wrote:
         | It is not that lawmakers censor nipples. it is google that is
         | demonetizing them, even though it has the power (by virtue of
         | controlling both sides of the ad market) to change those
         | attitudes. Yet they have only been becoming more restrictive ,
         | not less
        
           | olliej wrote:
           | It is the politicians that pass laws to punitively punish
           | companies like google is they ever allow any kid to see
           | anything that isn't ideologically pure.
        
             | TheOtherHobbes wrote:
             | Unless it's a carefully framed slow motion sequence of
             | someone getting their brains blown out. Or hacked to death
             | with a large sharp blade.
             | 
             | But at least our kids are safe from nipples.
        
             | jdrc wrote:
             | No law prevents google from placing ads almost wherever
             | they like. Late night TV shows always had advertising on
             | them, yet even remotely referencing sex on the net is
             | unmonetizable
        
             | lukev wrote:
             | Could you provide an example of such a law? To my knowledge
             | the US courts and legal systems have been fairly consistent
             | that sexual content is protected under the First Amendment.
             | 
             | The main culprit appears to be the prudishness and
             | conservatism of large companies, somewhat big tech
             | companies but especially credit card companies and payment
             | processors.
        
         | renewiltord wrote:
         | That's normal. Silicon Valley is the only part of America that
         | makes anything or does anything worthwhile. As a result, people
         | have built up an expectation that that is where they should go
         | to get things done.
        
         | zajio1am wrote:
         | Agree that politicians are to blame here, but SESTA / FOSTA
         | laws have bipartisan support, not just from the religious
         | right.
        
           | UberFly wrote:
           | Exactly. The whole goal originally was to counter online sex
           | trafficking which is easy to be for, not for religious
           | zealots to "censor nipples" as some here who probably didn't
           | read the wired article think. It's just that like everything
           | there are unintended consequences.
        
             | loeg wrote:
             | The goal was to shut down online prostitution; trafficking
             | is just a performative excuse.
        
               | UberFly wrote:
               | Don't pretend trafficking wasn't/isn't a major problem
               | made even bigger and easier by the internet. Here's one
               | example: https://abcnews.go.com/US/woman-allegedly-
               | trafficked-backpag...
        
           | devmor wrote:
           | Both major parties cater to Christian interests over anything
           | else. The US is a "light theocracy".
           | 
           | Until that changes, we will constantly have to defend our
           | industries and personal lives from the intrusion of the
           | church.
        
             | saghm wrote:
             | To expound on this, we've still yet to have a president who
             | doesn't identify as Christian. I don't think we're
             | particularly close to a point where a self-professed
             | atheist could get elected president either, although I
             | could see someone of another mainstream religion getting
             | elected in the not too distant future.
        
               | pbhjpbhj wrote:
               | Trump is very clearly not a Christian. Seemed to be loved
               | by people who call themselves Christian but seemingly
               | don't follow any of Jesus' message.
               | 
               | It's really curious.
        
               | krapp wrote:
               | >Seemed to be loved by people who call themselves
               | Christian but seemingly don't follow any of Jesus'
               | message.
               | 
               | That describes most Christians, honestly. Trump
               | identifies as a "non-denominational" Christian (as
               | opposed to atheist or any other religion), employs
               | Christian symbols in his politics (likely not in good
               | faith, but again that isn't unusual) and has strong
               | support within the Evangelical Christian community, who
               | clearly find something within him that resonates with
               | their faith.
        
               | kQq9oHeAz6wLLS wrote:
               | > That describes most Christians, honestly.
               | 
               | In your experience, perhaps, but it's exceptionally
               | dishonest, and frankly hateful, to say that describes
               | "most Christians." I know more Christians than non-
               | Christians and the behavior discussed here describes
               | maybe 4 of them (out of about a thousand).
               | 
               | That'd be like someone saying "most LGBTQ are
               | pedophiles." I'm sure it's true in some cases, but is
               | highly unlikely to be true for "most".
               | 
               | Honestly, I get tired of everyone using hyperbole so
               | flippantly. It gives your opponents easy targets to
               | completely discredit the point you were making. So,
               | just...stop.
        
               | gizmo686 wrote:
               | Trump presented himself as a Christian, which is the
               | relevant factor here.
        
               | spindle wrote:
               | As a non-American, can anyone please tell me how the
               | media reacts to Tulsi Gabbard not being Christian? (She's
               | Hindu ... and religious, so this is not relevant to the
               | atheist part of your point.)
        
               | saghm wrote:
               | I actually don't think I was aware of this! Most of the
               | media coverage I've seen on her is about her coming
               | across as fairly unconventional for a Democrat in the
               | debate performances, but I think the field was so large
               | then and then narrowed down quickly enough that she
               | didn't get much extended attention. I imagine if she
               | makes it further into a national campaign, it might end
               | up coming up though.
        
               | int_19h wrote:
               | Chris Butler's cult isn't Hindu, although they would sure
               | like people to believe that.
        
             | adventured wrote:
             | > The US is a "light theocracy".
             | 
             | That's not remotely close to being true. The US has among
             | the strongest separation of church and state laws of any
             | nations and they're well protected decade after decade. If
             | the US were actually a light theocracy, the conservative
             | majority Supreme Court would wreck the US promptly with
             | crazy theocratic changes that would make Iran blush. It was
             | the first nation in history to explicitly codify such a
             | strict separation in its constitution as well. Those
             | separation lines have, on average, been made stronger over
             | time.
             | 
             | You can dislike the Christian culture that exists in the
             | US, certainly. It hasn't made any consequential inroads
             | into state in two centuries, in fact the opposite is the
             | case: Christianity (and religion more broadly) has been
             | pushed back out of US life in numerous significant ways
             | (and properly so; eg: gay marriage, abortion rights, making
             | it illegal to discriminate based on religion, acceptance
             | and ease of divorce, sunday alcohol sales & business
             | activity, drug legalization laws, press dominance and
             | positioning (the press is ~95% left-leaning now and very
             | much not religious in nature)). That there have been
             | occasional set-backs in things such as abortion rights,
             | doesn't nullify the overall point. Religion has been losing
             | political and cultural ground in the US for a long time and
             | that's likely to continue. Religion used to dominate US
             | life and heavily factor into US politics, as recently as
             | the post war 1950s-1980s era, and that is no longer the
             | case (the left for example is drastically less religious
             | than it was just 40-50 years ago).
        
               | rat9988 wrote:
               | I'm not sure you disproved his point. You disproved it
               | was a theocracy which no one has argued.
        
         | darkengine wrote:
         | SESTA and FOSTA are certainly DC's doing, but I think it's fair
         | to say there is a serious aversion to sexuality and eroticism
         | among incumbent platforms, that did not require any prodding
         | from US lawmakers. For example, AFAIK, Instagram has never
         | allowed "adult" content, since long before FOSTA; Steam has
         | never allowed "pornography" on its platform, resulting in
         | hundreds of games requiring patches [1] to play in the form the
         | publisher intended.
         | 
         | Eroticism being a core component of art going all the way back
         | to literal cave paintings, I am sometimes frustrated at the
         | prudishness of the platforms we use in the contemporary age.
         | 
         | [1] https://store.steampowered.com/curator/34059662-Uncensor-
         | Pat...
        
           | KennyBlanken wrote:
           | It has nothing to with "DC" (numerous anti-porn laws have
           | been struck down by courts) and everything to do with the
           | banking industry's moral codes, which is where the Christian
           | Right shifted their moral crusade to after losing numerous
           | legal challenges.
           | 
           | That's why you see platforms like Patreon crack down on adult
           | content. The banking industry notices, the payment processors
           | and merchant banks sit up and threaten to close the service's
           | accounts, and the service instead capitulates and cranks up
           | their rules around adult content.
           | 
           | They'll bray about fraud rates being high for adult content,
           | but if high fraud rates were a concern, you'd think they
           | wouldn't give the gym industry (for example) free license in
           | credit card processing and ECH transfers...they're prolific
           | scam artists. Ditto for all the as-seen-on-tv crap with
           | outrageous shipping and "handling" fees and so on.
           | 
           | If the banking industry figures out that you're an adult
           | media actor, you stand a good chance of getting banned from
           | the entire system. What possible argument for fraud is there
           | in that case? None. "Fraud" is just a cover for Christian
           | moral code enforcement.
           | 
           | Edit: okay, maybe it's not the Christian Right influencing US
           | banks rejecting porn stars for accounts for "moral" reasons.
           | Must be the sentient Big Mouth Billy Bass units.
        
             | colpabar wrote:
             | I agree that it's the banks but do you have any evidence to
             | support your claims that it's the christian right?
        
               | rpdillon wrote:
               | This entry[0] has useful background.
               | 
               | [0]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Center_on_S
               | exual_Ex...
        
             | mildmotive wrote:
             | It's the liberal that's holding the power here, not the
             | Christian that is fighting an uphill battle to preserve
             | their religious lifestyle, and the right to parent their
             | own children how they want.
             | 
             | It's clear for all that opening the floodgates of porn into
             | social media and platforms that both adults and _children_
             | use will cause this particular category of content to
             | dominate the entire space. It'll also lock out any children
             | from most social media whose parents refuse (and rightfully
             | so) to let them see porn. Not that this effort will always
             | be successful, because children who don't know any better
             | will cave in to peer pressure from friends. This dystopia
             | where what's essentially filmed prostitution finds its way
             | into almost all spaces in society, including children's
             | lives, is what the very powerful liberal wants.
             | 
             | Shouldn't you be more concerned about the increase in women
             | and girls forced to sell their dignity to survive? Is the
             | suffering of people not more important to you than your
             | cummies?
        
               | jrajav wrote:
               | Outspoken Christians form 9 out of 10 members of Congress
               | despite representing 65% of the US population [1].
               | Religiously motivated laws get argued and passed on a
               | weekly basis, and Christian fundamentalist ideas are
               | constantly in the media spotlight.
               | 
               | Put down the persecution complex.
               | 
               | [1]: https://www.pewforum.org/2021/01/04/faith-on-the-
               | hill-2021/
        
               | KyeRussell wrote:
               | I genuinely can't tell if this is your legitimate view or
               | if you're moving the conversation along by making the
               | religious right's arguments for them. Either way, I'll
               | bite. 1. Nobody is arguing against a parent's right to
               | choose their parenting style. This is about altering
               | society to fit their parenting style. 2. Permissive
               | social networks (like Twitter) don't have an issue with
               | adult content overrunning the network. Furthermore, if
               | adult content wasn't roped off to all but a couple of
               | mainstream social networks, isn't it arguable that the
               | reduced concentration will mitigate your hypothesised
               | "overrunning"? 3. The implication that all sex work is
               | exploitative is in 2022 untenable. There are myriad women
               | out there who consensually do sex work when they could do
               | something else instead. Sex work has pros and cons for
               | the worker like any other job. The characterisation of
               | this as "selling their dignity" is indicative of a view
               | of sex and sexuality that is increasingly out of step
               | with the attitudes of the young people who typically
               | engage in sex work. The implication that sex work is
               | exploitative or even "sad" is driven by the US's legal
               | stance on prostitution. I live in a jurisdiction with
               | more permissive prostitution laws and the difference is
               | night-and-day obvious. The (il)legality of full service
               | sex work fuels the stigma, not the other way around.
        
               | pclmulqdq wrote:
               | Twitter has a lot of porn on it, and we don't see it as
               | "overrun with porn" or "unsafe for children." There is a
               | way to do it right.
        
               | mildmotive wrote:
               | > Twitter has a lot of porn on it, and we don't see it as
               | "overrun with porn"
               | 
               | That's why I said "opening the floodgates". Yes of course
               | there is porn in social media already. It's still a fact
               | today that you wont see porn on
               | Twitter/YouTube/Facebook/etc. unless you look for it. If
               | you remove restrictions and push porn just like any other
               | content, then all these platforms will essentially
               | degrade into hybrid porn sites because this particular
               | type of content will dominate the entire space. Some
               | people here are upset that it's even kept in check at
               | all. SV are being called puritans for having some common
               | sense and not letting this filth dominate their sites.
               | 
               | > or "unsafe for children."
               | 
               | Some people would argue that though.
        
           | gumby wrote:
           | Steam is in Washington, not the Valley or SF.
        
           | nerdponx wrote:
           | This is a classic case of an industry attempting to self-
           | regulate in order to avoid legal regulation, with teeth. Even
           | inconsistently-applied loose rules are good enough to keep
           | the powerful Christian lobbyist pitchforks at bay.
        
           | Ekaros wrote:
           | I think Steam has pretty much given up on not allowing
           | porn... Outside certain cases.
        
             | int_19h wrote:
             | When browsing Steam VR titles, it feels like half of that
             | is interactive porn.
        
           | okasaki wrote:
           | Steam does allow porn games now, though you have to log in
           | and change some settings to see it.
        
             | oneoff786 wrote:
             | And if you do, it's ridiculously over saturated with them
        
           | CPLX wrote:
           | I mean isn't this a function of all this stuff being ad
           | supported?
           | 
           | Brands don't want ads next to porn. That seems like the core
           | of the issue here.
        
             | LewisVerstappen wrote:
             | Steam isn't ad supported.
        
               | echelon wrote:
               | It's Visa supported, and Visa doesn't want sex.
               | 
               | There are actually strong, non-"puritanical" reasons for
               | this. An oft-cited anecdote is the spouse or parent that
               | finds mysterious porn charges on the credit card. Sex-
               | related services carry an extremely high rate of charge
               | backs. The transaction risks are much, much higher than
               | other categories of goods and services.
               | 
               | So while Visa could simply charge more, there are
               | numerous other headwinds that make this tricky. Political
               | will, payments risks, brand risk, and deep rooted
               | family/social stigmas that fuel the rest. They kind of
               | all have to be dealt with at once for this to start
               | making economic and business sense.
               | 
               | For proponents, it's going to take generational change to
               | shake all of these network effects out. The first step of
               | which is consumers (Gen Z?) publicly admitting that they
               | see no harm in sex-related commerce and to begin showing
               | this in their purchasing behaviors.
               | 
               | John Oliver recently covered this as it relates to sex
               | work. Stigmas and dispositions are changing, but it's
               | slow. A lot of signalling has to happen to a lot of
               | people.
        
               | kipchak wrote:
               | I'm not sure how they're working things on the payment
               | processing front but Steam has sexual content on it's
               | regular storefront now without requiring external
               | patches. Heck some are even Steam Deck verified.
        
               | KennyBlanken wrote:
               | None of this explains why the banking industry blacklists
               | porn stars from having checking accounts, nor why they
               | allow other high-risk industries wholesale access...the
               | gym industry, for example, is incredibly fraudulent and
               | yet the banking industry has no problem letting them use
               | ECH, a system so permissive it's a fraudster's wet
               | dream....or why the banking industry has done nothing to
               | self-regulate payday lenders.
        
               | spindle wrote:
               | Very good comparisons IMO.
        
               | newbamboo wrote:
               | "A lot of signalling has to happen to a lot of people."
               | More signaling makes all signals weaker until everything
               | is noise. Probably not the desired outcome.
        
               | IfOnlyYouKnew wrote:
               | I wonder how much of it is outrage-by-proxy, where _you_
               | don 't have a problem with it, but fear that _others_
               | will.
        
               | KennyBlanken wrote:
               | ...steam is _covered_ in ads, even opening them in a
               | separate window when you launch the client. They 're only
               | for stuff sold on steam, and publishers (supposedly)
               | can't buy ad space, but they're ads nonetheless.
        
               | KyeRussell wrote:
               | This advertising obviously does not have the attributes
               | that the conversation is referring to, namely that a
               | third party is buying the space.
        
         | Spooky23 wrote:
         | It's a branding and criminal liability problem too.
         | 
         | Yak about sex worker empowerment, but companies like Craigslist
         | made themselves unwitting business partners with pimps and
         | other low rent types.
        
       | gorwell wrote:
       | Silicon Valley's Censorship Harms Everyone
        
       | jdrc wrote:
       | The attitude of silicon valley is, ultimately, shaped by the
       | cultural and religious values and background if its worker base.
       | Such attitudes are often expressed in this forum as well.
       | 
       | > When female nipples are censored but male nipples are not, we
       | know that we must police our own bodies to ensure we do not
       | arouse men
       | 
       | It is probably true that digital media is more lenient to gay
       | male sexuality than to female sexuality probably because the
       | former is still media taboo. There is a sense that they go out of
       | the way to protect women from themselves which is an attitude
       | that should be thoroughly condemned.
        
       | freyr wrote:
       | Not to mention advertisers, but could it be that most _users_
       | don't actually want porn and solicitations by sex workers showing
       | up in their Facebook and Instagram feeds?
       | 
       | There is no shortage of places to find porn or sex workers
       | online, for those who seek it out, including on some popular
       | social media sites. It can be difficult to even search Twitter
       | without getting a close-up photo of someone's genitalia in the
       | results. I don't think it's necessary that _every_ social media
       | site becomes a platform for porn and sex work.
        
       | Animats wrote:
       | _" Instead, it seems likely that they simply don't see queer
       | users as important"_
       | 
       | 3.8%.[1] That's below the noise threshold from a revenue
       | standpoint.
       | 
       | [1]
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_demographics_of_the_Unite...
        
       | mensetmanusman wrote:
       | Have these people been on the Internet?
        
       | badrabbit wrote:
       | Eh? Are there barriers to sex-friendly startups and platforms?
       | Let's discuss those then. "Silicon valley" or not, others
       | shouldn't be compulsed into featuring or supporting others'
       | expression of sexuality. Consent as I understand is a
       | foundational principle of any healthy sexual relationship or
       | expression.
       | 
       | If a person wishes to censor or prohibit expressions of
       | sexuality, so long as they don't prohibit others from
       | independently expressing their sexuality then what is the
       | problem?
        
       | olliej wrote:
       | How is this Silicon Valley's fault?
       | 
       | You have a bunch of puritanical politicians and voters who
       | attempt to aggressively punish anyone that goes against their
       | idea of a perfect puritan society. The result is laws that _by
       | design_ force corporations into over censoring to avoid
       | liability.
       | 
       | Turning around and blaming SV for this is nonsense, especially
       | when the same puritans are blaming SV for all of the non-
       | puritanically pure parts of society.
        
       | chairmanwow1 wrote:
       | What an uninteresting point of view. I don't have time to be
       | enraged about this
        
       | hnuser847 wrote:
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | oh_sigh wrote:
         | It isn't. You might be thinking of titillation, which is much
         | more common. And I guess that's because if you're going for
         | viewcounts, the lowest common denominator will get you the
         | most.
        
       | markdown wrote:
       | Not mentioned in this article is the way indigenous people are a
       | victimised by Facebook for just... being, because their
       | traditional dress (in non-sexual contexts) is considered too
       | revealing by Facebooks standards.
       | 
       | This happens all the time in Vanuatu and Papua Niu Guinea.
       | 
       | > "Those pictures are appropriate to me because it's part of my
       | culture, but to Facebook it's not appropriate ...those who are
       | working at Facebook should understand that we have different
       | cultures around the world."
       | 
       | https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-10-25/facebook-mistakenly-b...
       | 
       | https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/mediawatch/audio/2...
        
       | throwawayp0rn wrote:
        
         | WinterMount223 wrote:
         | Is there even one guy who got laid through direct messaging on
         | Onlyfans and not paid for it?
        
           | throwawayp0rn wrote:
        
         | oneoff786 wrote:
         | Instagram doesn't want to be the local bar
        
       | rr808 wrote:
       | It is kinda weird to see war footage of people burning alive,
       | dismembered corpses, children being bombed. But one little
       | nipple... I guess US TV is the same.
        
         | nerdponx wrote:
         | I always assumed it was because of Christianity making sex
         | taboo above almost all else.
        
           | pbhjpbhj wrote:
           | Ah, so that's why Catholics have so few children. /s
           | 
           | It's easier to be chaste than it is to be holy, so people go
           | for chasteness and pretend it's holiness. Completely
           | misunderstanding the gospels in three process.
        
         | watwut wrote:
         | I did not seen children being bombed. I have heard about that
         | happening and seen video where it took place, but after the
         | fact and fairly sanitized.
         | 
         | The brutality of War is not nearly shown as much on TV as your
         | comment implies, at least not in TV I was watching.
        
         | throw_a_grenade wrote:
         | In Europe, sex is good and violence is bad. In the US, it's the
         | other way around.
         | 
         | (stolen from someone on /. years ago)
        
         | runako wrote:
         | In fairness, American TV also does not (frequently) show (real)
         | gore as is often the case in other countries.
        
         | suifbwish wrote:
         | What are you talking about, more than half of the internet
         | bandwidth being used in the world as I type this is
         | transmitting pictures of nipples.
        
           | mescaline wrote:
           | Even this comment contains nipples.
           | 
           | ( o ) ( o )
        
             | pengaru wrote:
             | (.)(.)
        
             | k8sToGo wrote:
             | All I see is eyes
        
           | onion2k wrote:
           | A 2014 Google study reckoned 4% of the Internet is porn.
           | 
           | https://www.statista.com/chart/16959/share-of-the-
           | internet-t...
        
             | nrclark wrote:
             | 4% of websites, according to that article. I didn't see any
             | graphs on bandwidth. I doubt that half of all traffic is
             | porn, but 10% wouldn't surprise me at all.
        
         | Robotbeat wrote:
         | I've noticed social media using more aggressive censorship (not
         | exactly censorship; more like requiring you to be logged in) on
         | war gore than sexually explicit images.
        
         | norvvryo wrote:
         | Real violence is getting harder to find as well. Everything
         | that isn't advertiser friendly is purged from mainstream
         | channels. And it seems like the definition of "advertiser
         | friendly" gets more and more stringent every day.
        
         | tyrfing wrote:
         | You're overstating it, lots of violent content is banned on
         | every single popular platform, including hosting services.
        
           | teej wrote:
           | I have to activate a complicated account level override to
           | see nipples on the Reddit app. I can see gore in 2 clicks.
        
             | tyrfing wrote:
             | James Foley, Christchurch, etc. There's a long list of
             | stuff that is almost universally censored, it's not a
             | matter of setting account flags. Incidentally, Reddit is
             | one of the most permissive hosts in terms of content,
             | allowing stuff that even Imgur doesn't.
        
       | vxNsr wrote:
       | The issue is that people have gotten used to being able to put
       | things on the internet for free. Unfortunately for people
       | involved in selling sex, there are many laws that make hosting
       | their content relatively expensive. Each piece of content
       | uploaded needs to be moderated by someone to confirm it's not
       | something that runs afoul of the law, this is unscalable, and
       | thus the classic SV playbook doesn't apply.
       | 
       | In fact the more popular a service gets, the more expensive it
       | becomes to run, on an almost exponential scale. Meaning there's
       | an inflection point where the service won't be able to profitably
       | add more customers.
       | 
       | There's a reason such a service hasn't sprung up... no matter how
       | you run the numbers there's not a good, safe way, to both allow a
       | backstage-type service and promise on penalty of criminal charges
       | that some form of (child) abuse won't take place on the platform.
        
       | Zak wrote:
       | I think a big part of it is platforms not wanting to get listed
       | as "adult content" by organizations maintaining filter lists.
       | 
       | Facebook wants absolutely everyone to use Instagram, especially
       | teenagers. They almost launched Instagram for kids under 13, whom
       | social media companies in the US are forbidden from offering
       | their standard products to. I've seen public wifi filters class
       | reddit as "adult".
        
       | teej wrote:
       | I've worked at a VC-backed social media app and currently work
       | for a privately owned porn company.
       | 
       | SV has the dumbest double standards about sex and nudity. Just
       | colossally dumb.
       | 
       | There's a few forces at work that the article doesn't dig into -
       | 
       | 1/ VCs get their money from LPs. LPs are orgs like university
       | trusts and pension funds. Those LPs demand "morality clauses"
       | that limit what VCs can invest in. And VCs give it to them.
       | 
       | 2/ Google starting 2018-ish began to cave to advertiser pressure
       | about nudity. They passed that pressure down to their different
       | business. Now YouTube, AdWords, Adsense, etc all must ensure ad
       | content is never shown next to nudity. Those business teams
       | rolled out this missive in the most bungled way possible. False
       | positives be damned, the ad dollars must flow.
       | 
       | This leads to startups being squeezed on both sides - investors
       | can't be seen supporting sex and ad platforms salt the earth
       | anywhere an adult word might be uttered. So as a social media
       | platform, you pretend it doesn't exist (Reddit, Instagram), you
       | quarantine it (Twitch), or you mass-deplatform and cross your
       | fingers (YouTube, Snapchat).
       | 
       | I don't know what the answer is for those products, but I feel
       | like we could do better.
        
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