[HN Gopher] Study on quality of sleep when pet cats choose locat...
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       Study on quality of sleep when pet cats choose location of slumber
        
       Author : sohkamyung
       Score  : 233 points
       Date   : 2022-03-19 23:24 UTC (23 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.spoon-tamago.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.spoon-tamago.com)
        
       | whateveracct wrote:
       | Cats spend most of their lives asleep. To sleep with cats is to
       | be amongst experts beyond human ability. It's the best.
        
       | beardyw wrote:
       | By coincidence the cat was also doing a study trying to predict
       | where the human would sleep that night, and going there first.
       | Got it right 100% of the time.
        
       | sitta wrote:
       | I do the opposite for my cat. He's a very affectionate boy. He
       | likes to sleep with us, but we'd prefer he didn't because we have
       | a small bed and it makes our sleep worse. So, my solution was to
       | snuggle with him on our guest bed a half hour or so before we go
       | to bed. Then, when I get up, he stays on the guest bed and sleeps
       | the rest of the night.
       | 
       | You might think that he might just do this out of habit now, but
       | if we go out in the evening and come back late enough that he
       | doesn't get his snuggle time, he almost always shows up on our
       | bed after we've gone to sleep.
        
         | stevage wrote:
         | He probably just wants a warm bed to sleep in.
        
           | kbutler wrote:
           | Doesn't fit the data - if he's already been sleeping, his bed
           | will be warm, and he wouldn't have the incentive to get up
           | and change beds.
        
             | sitta wrote:
             | I think there is some truth in what stevage said. Usually
             | when we come home the cats get up and are unsettled due to
             | the change in routine. I try to get them settled on the
             | guest bed again before going to bed myself, but this
             | doesn't always work if they're really amped up. If I am
             | able to get them settled, he won't sleep with us (the other
             | cat isn't as interested in sleeping with us), but, if I
             | can't, he'll likely show up in our bed later.
             | 
             | So, it is likely just a matter of getting him comfortable
             | sleeping somewhere warm so that he isn't interested in
             | moving to our bed.
             | 
             | Edit: Having said that, before I started this routine, he
             | _would_ come up to bed if he was sleeping somewhere else
             | already on a normal night in. So, I don't know.
        
         | omegalulw wrote:
         | One thing that always freaks me out is how do you trust your
         | cat to not scratch your face or maul your eyes out while you
         | sleep (accidently or otherwise)?
        
           | boppo1 wrote:
           | Cats can be very affectionate. I have three cats and they all
           | jockey to get in my lap whenever I'm sitting or lay on my
           | stomach if I'm reclining reading a book.
           | 
           | People who know cats as unkind typically have only met cats
           | unknown to them.
        
           | toast0 wrote:
           | With the three cats I've had living with me, the closest I've
           | come to getting my face attacked while sleeping was sometimes
           | they walk over me, which is fine when they walk over my legs
           | or torso, and uncomfortable when they walk over my groin or
           | face. Usually there's some amount of motion or noise so I can
           | get my arms up to protect my face or at least move the cat.
           | 
           | I haven't had the types of cats that just attack their owners
           | with no provocation though. All three did have the thing
           | where sometimes they get upset by something that is
           | impercetible to humans and swat at apparently nothing and
           | then run away. That's not usually too stealthy though, and
           | you can usually avoid getting attacked in the face.
        
           | agumonkey wrote:
           | Because he/she is morphologically different from a mice. Good
           | question though.
        
       | hackernewds wrote:
       | While it's quirky and interesting, I'm surprised this
       | qualitative-only impact qualified for a dissertation
        
       | Melatonic wrote:
       | It is rumoured that if you give a person enough alcohol they too
       | will be able to access their inner cat-based mechanism for
       | choosing slumber locations!
        
       | anotheraccount9 wrote:
       | "For example, the researcher's journal often described feelings
       | of excitement and adventure in not knowing where she would be
       | sleeping that night."
       | 
       | I will attempt to hike the Appalachian Trail this year. So I'll
       | be sleeping at a different place almost every night for almost 5
       | months. Will I sleep better?
       | 
       | Edit: I cannot find her dissertation.
        
         | mauvehaus wrote:
         | Depends. The continuous northbound party crowd sometimes stays
         | up later than other folks might like. If you're in a shelter
         | with somebody who snores loudly it can be iffy (earplugs weigh
         | nothing. My favorites are the Howard Leight MAX with a cord. If
         | you're a back sleeper, you can probably be less picky and go
         | with a more rigid option). Occasionally the ground is so
         | wretched that it'll screw up your sleeping (hammockers have
         | different problems, but I tented, so I can't speak to that
         | personally). Some people report shelter mice keeping them up.
         | I've not had that experience. The foul weather rule for
         | shelters is "there's always room for one more". That sometimes
         | means everybody is crammed in and if one person moves, it turns
         | into a Newton's cradle situation.
         | 
         | Also, I don't know how old you are, but I've found the shelter
         | floors have gotten a lot harder as I've gotten older. What I
         | slept well enough, but not quite comfortably on on a Z-rest at
         | 20 is now something I need a NeoAir (or equivalent) to get a
         | good night of sleep and not wake up with lumps on my hips from
         | the hard floor. The ground is _much_ softer unless it 's hard-
         | packed mineral soil.
         | 
         | Apart from those things and the occasional storm, etc, you can
         | pretty much count on sleeping like you're dead.
        
         | yellow_lead wrote:
         | Yes but because you'll be incredibly tired :)
        
       | hprotagonist wrote:
       | https://web.archive.org/web/20220309204156/https://www.spoon...
        
       | jrjarrett wrote:
       | From reading the title I expected it to be a study along the
       | lines of "if your cat decides to sleep on your face, then your
       | sleep will be of lesser quality than if it decides to sleep at
       | the foot of the bed."
        
         | nullc wrote:
         | From the title I expected it to be a study on the quality of
         | the cat's sleep based on it choosing the location vs being
         | assigned a sleeping location.
        
       | remram wrote:
       | Does her cat not consistently sleep in her bed? Both now and with
       | the multiple generations of cats I grew up with, they would come
       | sleep between my legs almost every night. For some of them, they
       | would already be there when I get to bed, and come get me if I'm
       | up too late. Maybe they were running the experiment on me...
        
         | Metacelsus wrote:
         | Yeah, same here.
        
         | cdubzzz wrote:
         | My previous cats all did that and I loved it. Weirdly, our
         | newest cat prefers to sleep on my chest right up by my face.
         | She has trained me to like it and before she started doing it I
         | normally could not even sleep on my back. The only annoyance is
         | that she occasionally will wake me up by lightly clawing my
         | lip. Then just stare at me like, "why'd you wake up?"
        
           | bluedays wrote:
           | White people are so weird with their animals.
        
         | trashcan wrote:
         | Were your cats raised in a househould with a dog? I have only
         | had one cat (bengal) that sleeps in my bed and it was. I've
         | read it really helps cats be more outgoing:
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OG0S5NzWrLo
         | 
         | Also, it being cold in the house seems to have a big impact
         | too.
        
           | trashcan wrote:
           | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vKWk6tc2zY might be a better
           | video
        
         | mabbo wrote:
         | My cat likes to fall asleep at the foot of my bed every
         | night... until we fall asleep. Then he gets up and move
         | somewhere he likes better, usually his cat tower.
        
         | BXLE_1-1-BitIs1 wrote:
         | Our cat decides whose bed he sleeps in, usually next to my
         | legs. He moves without fuss when I move. Mornings he likes to
         | be on top of me.
         | 
         | As a kitten he would be under the covers next to me.
        
           | beebeepka wrote:
           | For a while I used to have 4 kittens sleep on the bed with
           | me. Man, was I super careful. I didn't have to be as cautious
           | when it was just their mother next to me
        
           | fullstop wrote:
           | We have four cats and one of them very much wants to be in
           | the bed with me on a nightly basis. The other ones also do,
           | to some extent, but the one that I let in will destroy things
           | in an attempt to enter if the door is closed.
           | 
           | Once in, she's polite and sleeps at the end of the bed or on
           | my legs if she's feeling a bit more affectionate that night.
           | I don't mind having her in the bed.
           | 
           | Two of the remaining three are No Fun to have around when I'm
           | trying to sleep. One will wake up very early and start
           | knocking things off of my night stand in an attempt to get me
           | to feed her. The other one will go into POWER GROOMING mode
           | as soon as he gets into the bed. It's loud, his breath isn't
           | the best, and he won't stop. He grooms himself, thoroughly,
           | for what seems like an eternity. To save myself the headache,
           | I just kick these two out and they will find somewhere else
           | to sleep.
           | 
           | The last one doesn't come upstairs often, but he's not
           | annoying to have around when he does.
           | 
           | It's easy to say that "a cat is a cat" but they really do
           | have their own habits and personalities.
        
         | rvbissell wrote:
         | One of my cats does the same. How does this affect your sleep?
         | I have to turn left/back/right every so often in my sleep, and
         | it disturbs the cat, and then me.
        
       | gmuslera wrote:
       | Looks like Ig Nobel Awards material, not because its intrinsic
       | value or being interesting, but somewhat seem to follow the
       | pattern.
        
         | DicIfTEx wrote:
         | Indeed it is - https://improbable.com/2022/03/19/sleeping-next-
         | to-the-cat-w...
        
       | mxwsn wrote:
       | Very amusing. Though, she concludes there's no difference based
       | on average sleep quality, but the variance is sizably larger, and
       | I personally care quite a bit about sleep quality consistency.
        
       | fencepost wrote:
       | If I'm sleeping accessible to the cats, it means I fell asleep in
       | an armchair (horrible bastard cat papa doesn't let Mr Sneezy the
       | Hair Chewer in the bedroom) and the preferred feline sleep
       | location is curled up on a blanket on my lap.
       | 
       | That or curled up on top of the Comcast box (DVR?) which might
       | possibly have a larger cardboard box on top of it to provide a
       | comfy warm spot....
        
       | pstoll wrote:
       | tldr: "scientific" study with N=1 (author / researcher) draws
       | useless conclusions, but because it contains "cats pics" gains
       | some attention.
        
       | trhway wrote:
       | She has 5 cats. I doubt that her sleep and well being can be
       | better than already is.
        
       | dm319 wrote:
       | That's a sweet article, but probably those findings relate to the
       | age of the person doing the studying. A good bed should support
       | your spine so that it is aligned while sleeping, and the comfort
       | layer needs to allow for circulation to occur in the tissue you
       | are lying on. If these factors are not correct you'll wake up
       | with back pain, or poorly rested (due to excessive movement
       | overnight to relieve poor circulation). I'm surprised they didn't
       | find a worsening of sleep quality not sleeping on their bed.
       | 
       | We have a cat and she definitely shifts her sleeping place every
       | few days/week. Another theory I have is that it is a natural way
       | of managing fleas, which will die off with no animal sleeping in
       | the spot for several days.
        
         | kwelstr wrote:
         | This! I know for a fact that my cat changes sleeping places if
         | he detects fleas and will not move back to the old spot for a
         | couple of weeks. Flea management from a cat perspective.
        
       | raunometsa wrote:
       | While it's probably impractical to choose your spot for the night
       | based on your cat's, I think there's actually something we can
       | learn from here:
       | 
       | "Cats will sleep in a variety of different locations, each likely
       | the combination of factors such as _mood_ , warmth, light and
       | coziness." [emphasis mine]
       | 
       | And I think we - humans - should also follow our mood more often
       | in our everyday lives - even things like sprint planning or
       | building our startups. I feel there's something hidden in the
       | feeling of how you feel (your mood).
       | 
       | For example, you look at these 5 tasks in your backlog and choose
       | what you want to work on based on your mood/excitement/feeling.
       | 
       | Maybe the level of excitement you feel for the task is a message
       | from your "unconscious" mind saying that this task is a good one
       | to do right now? And even if that's not the case, you'll just
       | feel better doing a task that you feel excitement for rather than
       | the one you don't feel like doing right now.
       | 
       | Advatages? 1) you just feel better (which I don't have to explain
       | why that is good for you) and 2) you probably finish the task
       | quicker and with a better quality
        
         | bdefore wrote:
         | Ideally management is not dogmatic about 'take from the top'
         | for several reasons, but I like your suggestion to account for
         | mood as well. There are definitely tasks that are mood-swingers
         | one way or the other. Choose work based on where you want your
         | mood to go (or can responsibly mood-sustain, if the mood-delta
         | is negative).
         | 
         | Upon reflection, I believe I've been implicitly doing this on
         | tasks for side projects. Whether its feasible on teams may
         | vary.
        
           | beebeepka wrote:
           | I think valued employees are generally allowed to do this. I
           | am not even good but most places have explicitly
           | allowed/encouraged such a thing.
        
           | raunometsa wrote:
           | >> Upon reflection, I believe I've been implicitly doing this
           | on tasks for side projects.
           | 
           | Yes, me too. I wrote about it here:
           | https://remotehunt.com/blog/startup-art
           | 
           | "The way I work on my side-project is very different from the
           | way I work as a developer at a startup. But what's the
           | difference?"
           | 
           | TL;DR
           | 
           | a) startup: I work on what I have to
           | 
           | b) side project: "I work on what excites me the most at this
           | moment."
        
         | Godel_unicode wrote:
         | Based on the fact that the only constant in tech is
         | accumulation of debt, across personal projects/FOSS/paid
         | development, I feel confident in saying that nobody will ever
         | feel like working on some tasks. Those tasks are important and
         | need to be done.
        
           | metadaemon wrote:
           | I think a lot of the technical debt I've acquired in the past
           | is due to having to rapidly apply business logic to existing
           | systems for customers. This is typically not the type of work
           | that I feel excited about.
           | 
           | I do, to some extent, feel excitement about reducing
           | technical debt. I'd assume that other engineers appreciate
           | taking the time to "clean" outside of writing net new
           | features. I could be totally off base, but I do think it
           | would be interesting to see an environment that was purely
           | mood driven development.
        
             | leetrout wrote:
             | Have you ever heard the phrase "man your battle stations"?
             | 
             | There is another type of station: cleaning stations.
             | 
             | And they make a call "all hands man your cleaning
             | stations".
             | 
             | Every sailor has an area they are responsible for cleaning
             | and they go there and clean.
             | 
             | I've pitched the same for codebases the past few places I
             | have worked: everyone has a cleaning station in the code
             | base and once every few weeks they go to that part of the
             | code and fix or identify and document needed improvements.
             | 
             | Making it a routine action that keeps up with incremental
             | changes and ideally lowers effort on keeping a code base
             | clean.
        
               | kortex wrote:
               | This is a great suggestion. My manager hates the term
               | "tech debt", because it's too vague and everyone has
               | their own idea of what constitutes tech debt. But what we
               | can enumerate are things like heavily intertwined logic
               | and IO, difficult to follow business logic, poor
               | documentation, long functions, etc.
        
             | ganzuul wrote:
             | I think you have a solid incentive structure there so PMDD
             | (Purely Mood Driven Development) is only a matter of
             | implementation.
             | 
             | Sort of like the job isn't done until you are putting away
             | your tools.
        
             | raunometsa wrote:
             | I love your term "mood driven development" (or MDD for
             | short?). I know Gumroad is doing this to at least some
             | extent:
             | 
             | "At the end of the day there's a lot of emotion that goes
             | into Gumroad, that's not dissimilar from an art project. We
             | sometimes pick what's fun and feels good to work on! We
             | love listening to creators! We don't do tons of data
             | analysis to decide what's worth working on." - @shl,
             | founder
             | 
             | I wrote about it more on my post "Startups should be more
             | like art projects" (link somewhere in the comments already,
             | won't add it here again not to spam)
        
               | layer8 wrote:
               | > mood driven development (or MDD for short)
               | 
               | Somehow I don't think this will be a successful marketing
               | term for that methodology.
               | 
               | Or maybe we'll end up getting Mood Master certifications,
               | daily mood-ups, mood retrospectives, and mood boards
               | where we move tasks around. ;)
        
         | 2ndbigbang wrote:
         | This is similar to some of the ideas in David Kadavy's "Mind
         | Management, Not Time Management".
         | 
         | https://www.amazon.com/Mind-Management-Not-Time-Productivity...
        
         | dspillett wrote:
         | _> Cats will sleep in a variety of different locations, each
         | likely the combination of factors such as _ mood _, warmth,
         | light and coziness. " [emphasis mine]_
         | 
         | They miss out a key component for some cats: territory
         | monitoring. My boss seemingly often picks places where she can
         | see a lot by just looking up & around, and can hear what is
         | going on around the flat, when taking a light nap. For a deeper
         | sleep coziness seems to be a higher priority.
        
           | madaxe_again wrote:
           | This seems to matter to both of mine, but in different ways -
           | they're siblings. The male always sleeps in the same spot,
           | from which he can see his food, the living room, and the
           | door. The female sleeps next to me in bed. Like clockwork - I
           | go to bed, she follows, and settles down neatly between the
           | wall and me, and doesn't move until I get up with dawn. I'm
           | the territory, in the latter case, I think. It isn't warmth -
           | I sleep with the window open, and when I'm not in bed she
           | sleeps in front of the fire, which is warm all night.
        
         | dist1ll wrote:
         | What you're describing is also known as staying in your comfort
         | zone, which can be devastating.
         | 
         | You should be mindful of your feelings and examine their
         | origins, yes. But I wouldn't recommend being driven by them.
        
           | xwdv wrote:
           | There is nothing wrong with a comfort zone, life is too short
           | really to spend long periods of time in brutal discomfort.
           | Some people ruin their lives this way to the point where it
           | will be impossible to ever be comfortable again before they
           | die.
        
             | dist1ll wrote:
             | That's really bad advice for people who are naturally very
             | fragile, have social anxiety or can't deal with
             | confrontation. Unless they start dealing with the feeling
             | of discomfort, they will either suffer their entire life or
             | just reinforce bad habits like avoidance, procrastination,
             | delusion and drug addictions. Lots of people ruin their
             | lives like that.
        
               | drjasonharrison wrote:
               | I feel that you are possibly jumping to conclusions as to
               | what constitutes a "good life" versus a "ruined life". If
               | people who have "small" comfort zones need support to
               | move outside of them.
               | 
               | Throwing categories such as avoidance, procrastination,
               | delusion, and drug addiction into the same group leads me
               | to believe that you might not understand what these
               | supports look like.
        
               | xwdv wrote:
               | Those people are not in a comfort zone, their entire life
               | is discomfort, they just don't know anything else. They
               | need to move into the comfort zone or their lives will
               | always be ruined.
        
           | DocTomoe wrote:
           | That was how I used to believe. What I didn't understand at
           | the time is that there is a difference between "being
           | comfortable" and "being complacent" - and that in order to
           | achieve things or grow yourself, you don't necessarily have
           | to be in a position of discomfort. The self-mortification
           | theory ("push it to the limit, leave your comfort zone") in
           | its extreme, as propagated by growth evangelists (and as it
           | originally came from the field of high-performance sports) is
           | anti-life and wrong.
           | 
           | People are not bonsai trees - and bonsai trees are unnatural
           | freaks of nature. We don't have to contort ourselves to live
           | up to an externally imposed ideal. We can - firmly grounded -
           | become greater than these ideals, simply by growing steadily
           | - at our own speed, and with our own, "natural", methods -
           | even within the speeds at which we feel comfortable.
           | 
           | So: DO listen to your gut feelings. Examine them. And listen
           | to them.
        
             | drjasonharrison wrote:
             | Often ignored: People who "push themselves" have a huge
             | number of supports from training, equipment, planning, etc.
             | 
             | No one does an Tough Mudder without a huge amount of
             | support. No one does a TED talk without a huge amount of
             | support.
        
         | bob1029 wrote:
         | > Maybe the level of excitement you feel for the task is a
         | message from your "unconscious" mind saying that this task is a
         | good one to do right now?
         | 
         | I very strongly believe there is a bigger unconscious component
         | to productivity than there is a conscious one.
         | 
         | Some mornings I wake up and I _want_ to jump into the super
         | nasty bucket of customer support tickets.  "What the hell is
         | still broken!? I am gonna fix that shit".
         | 
         | On others, I will find customer support items antagonistic in
         | every way, but would really like to spend time on a bunch of
         | deep tech debt that has been piling up.
         | 
         | And then there's the mornings where I wake up and I'd rather
         | just play overwatch or <insert latest AAA title> all day. And
         | you know what? At this point, I just fucking let it happen. I
         | have found, over the course of about a decade, that if I let my
         | monkey brain indulge periodically, the disciplined mind has a
         | much better chance taking control the next time around. Some
         | days I find myself very productively flip-flopping between
         | gaming and work. I've watched some of my peers take this too
         | far in the wrong way, but for whatever reason I can keep it on
         | rails.
        
         | ganzuul wrote:
         | It would be _weird_ if there was no intelligence to e.g. how
         | the chemical hijack of love relates to evolution. With how
         | strong it is, and how unforgiving natural selection is, there
         | must be a long-range correlation outside immediate perception
         | similar to how flocks of animals know when it is time to
         | migrate.
         | 
         | We definitely keep a lot of what we actually know about the
         | environment out from our daily driver philosophy.
        
           | Godel_unicode wrote:
           | We need to think carefully before invoking natural selection
           | too strongly. The fact that it has much less emphasis on
           | activities taken on after we stop procreation is a huge
           | blindspot for one thing.
           | 
           | Someone who invents the cure for cancer but has no children
           | is considered a failure by natural selection. Someone who
           | never contributes anything to society but has 15 kids is
           | conversely considered a huge success.
        
             | kortex wrote:
             | Not at the macro level. Natural selection isn't just about
             | fitness of an individual. For example, altruism can be
             | selected for, despite resulting in the sacrifice of the
             | individual. It increases the fitness of their kin by
             | globally reducing risk. If you extend "kinship" to "all of
             | humanity", then having a pool on non-reproducing scientists
             | still increases the species' fitness.
             | 
             | https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=iLX_r_WPrIw
        
             | ganzuul wrote:
             | Well in terms of evolution there needs to be a set of
             | instructions that gets passed on. If those instructions can
             | mutate, we have evolution. Perhaps it isn't genetic code
             | that gets passed on, but e.g. cultural inventions.
             | 
             | That said, these biological circuits that we are
             | considering get replicated in whatever environment that
             | they exist in. Love may lead to other things than
             | biological reproduction. Our lore regarding the human,
             | personal experience of love and what to do with it also
             | mutates and evolves. A poem then, may take the place of the
             | greatest invention.
        
             | brongondwana wrote:
             | If they invent a cure and it's forgotten by future
             | generations, then it is a failure. If their cure is
             | remembered and passed on, then their memetic output is not
             | lost, so they contributed - just not genetically.
             | 
             | Sure genetic material can survive where culture and memory
             | is lost, and evolves more slowly, but cultural
             | contributions do shape the future a lot as well.
        
         | eptcyka wrote:
         | Do be careful as a 100% investment in such a strategy will
         | destroy your will power. Will power is a muscle that needs to
         | be exercised by doing things you don't feel like doing.
        
       | l-lousy wrote:
       | What a wonderful experiment, not only does it sound fun but also
       | slightly educational
        
       | suction wrote:
       | There is nothing scientific about this "study". But another good
       | example of what I call the "Cargo cult science" approach so often
       | found in Japan: "We use meters to collect data and make graphs
       | and wear lab coats, so we're doing the science!"
       | 
       | It's like the Japanese watched a movie of scientists doing
       | science, and just recreated what they saw without understanding
       | anything that goes on beyond the surface.
       | 
       | Why is this not science? No control group, no elimination of
       | millions of variables that could affect the animal's choice of
       | location, etc.
        
         | kristopolous wrote:
         | "not yet" science is more appropriate.
         | 
         | Some things graduate to rigor, most things don't.
         | 
         | Gotta do cheap explorations and see if it has legs unless you
         | have infinite time
        
         | sdze wrote:
         | Why is it bad? It could be the beginning of a hypothesis?!
        
           | suction wrote:
           | Is it news or post worthy, is what I am questioning. I reckon
           | the reason this got posted here is the popularity of all
           | things Japan on dweeb boards like this one.
        
             | yborg wrote:
             | Naturally, there is no chance that it had something to do
             | with the popularity of cats in general.
        
       | skeletonjelly wrote:
       | I was hoping this was going to be about how cats affect quality
       | of human sleep (for selfish reasons)
        
       | ascar wrote:
       | Her being Japanese and being used to sleeping essentially on the
       | floor certainly helped. Pretty sure the result would have been
       | different for us westerners being used to sleep in soft beds.
       | 
       | Couldn't help but laugh out loud when seeing the pictures.
       | Especially since I thought at first it's about the cat lying on
       | different spots on the bed, which can restrict your movement.
        
         | bitwize wrote:
         | Japanese people don't typically sleep on the floor, though they
         | may sleep on mattresses placed on the floor (rather than
         | suspended by a bedframe and box spring).
        
           | mobiledev2014 wrote:
           | The poster you're responding to said "essentially" on the
           | floor. Having stayed at a traditional ryokan I'd say that's
           | an accurate description. It's a very comfortable floor! But
           | very different from western beds.
        
           | grapeskin wrote:
           | Sleeping on a futon (thick blanket, not a mattress) on the
           | floor is pretty typical. Apparently bed vs floor is about
           | half and half (blue is floor and red is mattress in this
           | chart). [1]
           | 
           | [1] https://tg-uchi.jp/topics/3807
        
           | solarmist wrote:
           | I assume parent was talking about futons on tatami which
           | don't compare well with mattresses, more like cushions on a
           | soft floor.
        
             | suction wrote:
             | Which the majority of Japanese people don't sleep on. They
             | sleep in beds.
        
               | rwmj wrote:
               | Maybe in Tokyo, but not out in the countryside in my
               | experience.
        
               | cthalupa wrote:
               | Of Japan's population of roughly 127 million, about 118
               | million of them live in urban/suburban areas.
               | 
               | Hosei University, where this researcher is from, is in
               | Tokyo.
               | 
               | So in absolute terms the statement that "The majority of
               | Japanese people sleep in beds" is certainly correct. In
               | context of the article, where it is being claimed that
               | sleeping on a futon on top of a tatami mat is preparation
               | for sleeping on the floor (and really, it isn't, but
               | we'll ignore that), it is also valid. The majority of the
               | Japanese populace in Japan sleeps on beds, and this
               | researcher likely does as well.
               | 
               | From anecdotal experience, most modern homes I have been
               | in in Japan have only one, if any, tatami rooms. They are
               | not used as bedrooms, except perhaps in the 'family
               | having a sleepover in the tatami room' sort of fashion.
               | Modern apartments seem to have none.
        
         | suction wrote:
         | Are you a time traveler from the 1940s? You'd be shocked to
         | find out that the norm for modern Japanese people is to sleep
         | in beds, sit on chairs, wear Western clothing, are able to use
         | knives and forks, and watch "Bachelor"-type reality TV shows.
         | I'd wager that Japanese people still sleeping on the floor
         | (which in itself is a falsehood, a futon is basically a thin
         | mattress) are a very small minority. Most Japanese people I
         | know go to Ryokan's as a fun way to feel "like people from ages
         | ago", but the next day at breakfast they all complain how much
         | their bodies hurt from not sleeping in their beds.
        
           | ascar wrote:
           | Well, I have lived for 6 months in the Kansai region and also
           | had a very nice guest family that I met at least every second
           | weekend, also multiple times in their house. They certainly
           | didn't have beds and the futon they used definitely would not
           | have counted as a proper mattress for me. Maybe you draw your
           | conclusions based on observations in Tokyo (westernization is
           | on another level there after all, which is why I personally
           | didn't enjoy Tokyo so much), but as another commenter linked
           | about 50% of Japan still sleeps on futons (2014) and it was
           | even 75% in 1990.
           | 
           | Also, you could avoid the condescending tone. Especially
           | since your argument is wrong. Adding that time traveling
           | accusation and other examples of common westernization was
           | unnecessary to make your point.
        
             | suction wrote:
             | 6 months, so you're basically a tourist, and have one piece
             | of anecdotal evidence. Yet you wrote as if you have deep
             | experience of modern Japanese culture - any sort of
             | condescension was warranted.
        
               | ascar wrote:
               | Man your attitude is really unwarranted. Not the kind of
               | comments and discourse one likes to have here.
               | 
               | I provided anecdotal evidence (which I added because the
               | tone of your comment provoked me to give evidence that I
               | actually do have some relevant experience and certainly
               | didn't time travel to 1940) and statistics that your
               | claim "a very small minority" is wrong. Here is the link
               | from a sister comment providing the data I spoke about:
               | 
               | https://tg-uchi.jp/topics/3807
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | thaumasiotes wrote:
         | > Pretty sure the result would have been different for us
         | westerners being used to sleep in soft beds.
         | 
         | A couple of nights on a hard surface will get your body used to
         | it. (Or at least, it did for me, when I rented an apartment
         | where the previous occupant had outfitted the bed with a board
         | to make it harder. I hurt all over after the first night. But I
         | got used to it.)
        
           | binkHN wrote:
           | In my case, when I moved into a new apartment and was waiting
           | on new furniture, I never got used to it. Yes, the first few
           | nights were the most challenging, but the challenge never
           | abated. Over a couple of months I tossed and turned way too
           | often as a result of too much pressure in one spot or another
           | and I started to develop rather consistent back pain almost
           | daily as a result of this arrangement.
        
           | gumby wrote:
           | I spent so many nights sleeping on the floor of my office in
           | the lab that I just got used to it.
           | 
           | Then I became a backpacker and it was like I had a
           | superpower.
        
         | KennyBlanken wrote:
         | There's also the fact that she used a fitbit for sleep quality
         | measurement.
         | 
         | That's why her results are inconclusive. The vast majority of
         | "activity" trackers don't measure sleep worth a damn.
         | 
         | My Garmin couldn't even tell when I'd gone to bed or woken up,
         | much less how well I slept.
        
           | fruit2020 wrote:
           | The forerunner 245 measures that very well.
        
           | katbyte wrote:
           | I find Apple Watch + auto sleep to be very accurate and
           | automatic.
        
       | sammalloy wrote:
       | The most amazing thing to me is how a deeply sleeping cat can go
       | from comatose to actively engaging in a task in a matter of a
       | second if it is disturbed to the point of awakening. It's truly
       | incredible. My anecdotal understanding is that the closest humans
       | can get to this kind of feline state of ready alertness is in war
       | time, but I think that has more to do with sleep deprivation.
        
       | aasasd wrote:
       | There's a folk belief (or maybe a legend of such belief) that
       | when moving into a new house, one should let in the cat first,
       | observe where they choose the resting place, and promptly install
       | the bed there.
       | 
       | I guess those people restricted the cat to the bedroom in the
       | experiment, because the instruction mentioned the 'corner' where
       | the cat rests, not just any place. Conveniently in this context,
       | though, olden rural houses here mostly just had one big room, due
       | to heating considerations in the northern winters--so no plopping
       | down in the middle of the bathroom like with some cats I know.
       | While in the OP, the practice was compromised by grossly
       | differing dimensions of the cat and the woman.
       | 
       | P.S.: Gotta say, the photos look like from the good old days of
       | planking and such:
       | http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-kCJp1auybWg/Tmk0MBZaRtI/AAAAAAAABo...
        
         | frederikvs wrote:
         | There is a similar folk belief to determine where to build a
         | house. If you have a plot of land, have a herd of sheep graze
         | there. The spot they choose to sleep is where you should build
         | your house.
         | 
         | This of course assumes that you have a large enough plot of
         | land, and no zoning laws telling you where you can and can't
         | build.
        
           | jehb wrote:
           | I wonder if there's any correlation between sheep grazing
           | locations and actual desirable features for building?
           | 
           | My intuition says sheep would graze where the grass is
           | greenest, which if it's like my property would be where the
           | soil keeps water for longer after a rain, which would
           | decidedly be a _bad_ spot to try to set my foundation. But I
           | don 't necessarily live in the climate or a similar
           | geological area where this folk belief originated, so now I'm
           | curious.
        
           | mauvehaus wrote:
           | I think we can confidently say it also requires having a
           | flock of sheep or being able to borrow one for a day or so.
           | Sheep as a Service for those of us who don't have a flock of
           | our own?
        
         | Melatonic wrote:
         | Or do the exact opposite
         | 
         | Every cat I have seen loves sleeping in the sun and in the
         | warmest spot (assuming it is not SUPER hot out). I do not enjoy
         | those things.
        
         | cperciva wrote:
         | _There 's a folk belief (or maybe a legend of such belief) that
         | when moving into a new house, one should let in the cat first,
         | observe where they choose the resting place, and promptly
         | install the bed there._
         | 
         | It's a very sensible belief! Cats are quite sensitive to
         | drafts, so (especially in days when houses were draftier and
         | lacked central heating) sleeping in the location the cat picks
         | is likely to be much healthier than picking a location at
         | random.
        
           | pengaru wrote:
           | My cats would have been insane guides for bed placement.
           | 
           | They largely gravitated to wherever the sun shined the most
           | on the floor, and one of them liked to jump into the fridge
           | and nap in there. It was a fun party trick to have a cat
           | abruptly push open and exit the refrigerator in the middle of
           | dinner or a board game, but clearly not the best guide for
           | where to put the bed.
        
             | jeffh wrote:
             | Wait though ... how can you make that assumption without
             | actually testing it? For science!
        
               | TylerE wrote:
               | You'll sleep pretty well...once.
        
             | rkagerer wrote:
             | Hah, Schrodinger's fridge.
        
             | cperciva wrote:
             | This folk belief almost certainly originated before
             | refrigerators were common fixtures in homes. ;-)
        
         | danmur wrote:
         | "good old days of planking" damn I'm old. Planking is in my
         | phone's dictionary too, hahaha
        
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