[HN Gopher] A Manifesto for the Metaverse
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       A Manifesto for the Metaverse
        
       Author : imgabe
       Score  : 24 points
       Date   : 2022-03-17 10:06 UTC (2 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (tiltingatwindmills.dev)
 (TXT) w3m dump (tiltingatwindmills.dev)
        
       | pavlov wrote:
       | A disappointing article that's not a manifesto in any sense. The
       | author doesn't seem interested in exploring prior art at all, and
       | there's plenty starting from VRML which was briefly the hype
       | around 1996.
       | 
       | Crypto claims are repeated without criticism. For example:
       | 
       | "With blockchain, users can maintain a consistent identity across
       | the metaverse simply by verifying their wallet address, which
       | nobody else would have access to."
       | 
       | How do you know address 0x381638eef881 is the Jane Doe who went
       | to your high school? It's not intrinsically a better identifier
       | than janedoe31@gmail.com.
       | 
       | You can't expect people to have a single wallet address all their
       | lives -- keys get lost, etc. And if you need a third party to
       | provide an identity layer, well, that's just another Facebook.
       | (Which of course the VCs hope that they'll be the ones to fund.)
        
         | mirntyfirty wrote:
         | Yes, it takes a remarkable amount of mental gymnastics to
         | reconcile decentralized transparent information and the
         | Facebook corporation.
        
           | pavlov wrote:
           | I'm saying the existence of crypto wallets does nothing to
           | prevent another Facebook (or indeed the same one), just like
           | the existence of PGP did nothing to prevent Facebook.
           | 
           | The metaverse identity problem is the same as the web
           | identity problem, and it is in no way solved by yet another
           | identifier just because you can attach a pointer to a monkey
           | JPEG to it.
        
         | zmmmmm wrote:
         | You inspired me to go have a look at VRML. With all respect to
         | the work that has been done, its so incomprehensible to anybody
         | outside the field. And it seems the modern version of it (X3D)
         | is more focused on specifying individual scenes and behaviours,
         | where what we need for the metaverse is the magic sauce that
         | lets people build separate worlds independently and join them
         | together through links. What does a link look like in such a
         | world? is it a door I walk through? a button I press?
         | 
         | We need something radically clearer and simpler to make it
         | successful. I wish I could believe Zuckerberg really wants to
         | build it but it is so hard to see him have the kind of altruism
         | necessary to build any kind of open platform.
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | sdoering wrote:
       | The first lines of the article actually tell most of the story:
       | 
       | > What is the Metaverse? Wired tried to figure it out recently
       | and the results were inconclusive. Where is the metaverse? How do
       | we log in to it? Nobody knows!
       | 
       | I read the article and only came away with 'we don't know
       | anything, we use buzzwords to imagine solutions for problems that
       | could be solved without buzzword tech, and call for let's build
       | it'.
       | 
       | To me metaverse sounds like a bubble of hot marketing and PR air.
        
       | hprotagonist wrote:
       | The manifesto for the metaverse may be found by consulting my HN
       | profile.
        
       | notahacker wrote:
       | Feels like it misses the point. The "openness" of the web meant
       | that anyone that could use a text editor could have a website and
       | everybody could access it (and most of it worked perfectly if
       | users accessed it asynchronously). The barriers to having your
       | own coherent shared 3D experience a lot higher (and the entities
       | that do it well aren't particularly interested in opening it up
       | to everybody else)
       | 
       | And of course the blockchain still feels like a solution in
       | search of a problem. A blockchain isn't a solution to the problem
       | of "anyone can design their avatar to look like anything they
       | want" because the blockchain isn't a design restriction, and if
       | you've got entities deciding that only the owner of a particular
       | token can have a particular style of costume, that looks quite a
       | lot like centralisation.
        
         | notepalf wrote:
         | This reminds me of https://janusvr.com/ , a way of creating 3D
         | spaces using a markup language and collaboratively browsing an
         | immersive internet
        
       | giantrobot wrote:
       | > With blockchain, users can maintain a consistent identity
       | across the metaverse simply by verifying their wallet address,
       | which nobody else would have access to.
       | 
       | This can be done with boring old encryption keys and signatures,
       | not stupid blockchain needed. Even then it doesn't solve the
       | avatar problem. If I make an avatar that looks just like someone
       | else (or their avatar) it doesn't matter if people can verify
       | someone's identity. I can _effectively_ impersonate anyone I want
       | if I can freely adjust an avatar. Unless you can manage to create
       | a truly effective  "avatar hash" there's no way to keep me from
       | using someone else's model.
        
         | moltke wrote:
         | You barely need crypto. Ticket authentication would be enough.
        
         | Smaug123 wrote:
         | > there's no way to keep me from using someone else's model
         | 
         | Indeed it seems to me desirable that I _could_ use someone else
         | 's model. The obvious solution to spoofing identity is "press a
         | button to view metadata of what I'm looking at"; the apparent
         | visual world is hardly the only layer of reality we need to
         | experience in VR.
        
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       (page generated 2022-03-19 23:02 UTC)