[HN Gopher] The Beautiful Mind-Bending of Stanislaw Lem (2019)
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The Beautiful Mind-Bending of Stanislaw Lem (2019)
Author : bryanrasmussen
Score : 140 points
Date : 2022-03-16 15:12 UTC (7 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.newyorker.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.newyorker.com)
| virgil_disgr4ce wrote:
| Funny this is on the front page, as I just finished Solaris last
| night. But I honestly was not entertained by it. I found the
| character actions and dialog to be strangely unmotivated and
| confusing--why are they doing and saying these things? Is it a
| cultural, time period or translation difference? Some of the
| ideas are definitely interesting--I mean, you had me at "sentient
| ocean"--and I appreciate the historic value of the idea that an
| alien might just be simply _not understandable by humans_. The
| descriptions of the vast, frothing, living architectures were
| vivid and memorable, but most everything else seemed surprisingly
| tedious. I haven 't seen either of the film adaptations but I
| can't possibly imagine what the story would be since there's so
| little story in the book.
| myth_drannon wrote:
| I think Tarkovsky's movie was the one that made the novel
| popular in certain circles and the article claims the same.
| Gravityloss wrote:
| I don't know why Solaris is considered so good or famous, he
| has so many other, much better books.
| asthamatan wrote:
| As someone once wrote about Lem's heritage and making it into
| cinema: Solaris is the only one with enough sexual context to
| show to the viewer, other works just do not have enough of
| it.
|
| I'm just rephrasing this from memory. The audience may be
| different now and possibly can accept less sex (this is
| supposedly a new trend in cinema).
| bally0241 wrote:
| Errmm...The Cyberiad certainly has plenty of 'sexual'
| content, but it may be considered too bizarre or disturbing
| for a mainstream audience, especially the story of the
| HPLDs.
| telesilla wrote:
| They tried with the Futurological Congress but for me, the
| (short) novel was far more amusing.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Congress_(2013_film)
| sogen wrote:
| Same, while good, I think it could have been better if it were
| a few pages shorter, as it seems to lose momentum in the last
| pages.
|
| The Cyberiad is better, full of short stories.
|
| Also a good one is the The Futurological Congress.
| emtel wrote:
| I don't think Solaris is Lem's best book, although that is the
| conventional wisdom.
|
| I highly recommend Fiasco and His Master's Voice. Fiasco starts
| with quite a long intro vignette that has little to do with the
| rest of the story. If its too boring just skip it. (Although I
| think it's well worth reading).
| FpUser wrote:
| I first read Lem translated to Russian in the 80's. At that point
| I was convinced that I've found probably one of the greatest
| writer ever.
| sbarre wrote:
| I just recently started reading his book Fiasco (more precisely
| an English translation) and it's so different from other stuff
| I've read but I am loving it. First book I've read by him.
|
| Other than Solaris, any recommendations for a next one?
| npsimons wrote:
| "Cyberiad" is by far my favorite, whimsical, yet instructive to
| engineers.
|
| "The Futurological Congress" is good, but not great; "The
| Congress" with Robin Wright was loosely based on it and had
| more of an impact for me.
|
| "His Master's Voice" I read while still in civil service, and
| it hit pretty close to home, albeit it also reminded me of the
| bad parts of academia. I need to read that one again sometime.
| petrochenkov wrote:
| It's kind of strange to me to see Futurological Congress and
| e.g. Fiasco from the other responses being advised as
| standalone novels (maybe it has something to do with the
| history of Lem's English translations).
|
| I'd instead advice to read the whole Ijon Tichy cycle
| starting from Star Diaries (which are pretty similar to
| Cyberiad in style), and the whole Pilot Pirx cycle starting
| from the Pirx Stories.
| Tade0 wrote:
| Personally I enjoyed Tales of Pirx the Pilot. The main
| character is no hero - just an ordinary spacefarer keeping it
| professional.
| sogen wrote:
| - The Cyberiad - The Futurological Congress
| pmoriarty wrote:
| Lem's _Cyberiad_ is my favorite by him, and one of my favorite
| science fiction books of all time. It 's hilarious, witty, and
| philosophical. Lem treats issues from AI to ethics in a deeply
| humorous and intelligent way. The closest book I can think of
| to it is Douglas Adams' _Hitchhiker 's Guide to the Galaxy_
| series, but that's in a completely different style from Lem's
| _Cyberiad_. Highly, highly recommended.
| rootbear wrote:
| I'm also a big fan of the _Cyberiad_ , and Douglas Adams.
| When a bunch of us first heard _The Hitchhiker 's Guide to
| the Galaxy_ radio plays, we were sure Adams must have read
| the _Cyberiad_ , as some of it seemed so similar in tone if
| not details. But I read somewhere that he had not read it
| when he wrote _Hitchhikers_.
| bally0241 wrote:
| Yes, I too was surprised to hear Adams had not read the
| Cyberiad. The absurdist humor is very similar.
| sn41 wrote:
| "His Master's Voice" - the best SF I have read, bar none. It's
| the closest that fiction gets to the actual feel of academic
| research.
| Claude_Shannon wrote:
| Just be aware it is very close to a philosophical treatise.
| emtel wrote:
| His Master's Voice, not Solaris, should be the novel Lem is
| known for, imo.
| abruzzi wrote:
| the first story "How the World was Saved" in the Cyberiad is a
| super short story, what writers usually call "flash fiction".
| Maybe 4-5 pages, and perfectly sets the mood for the rest of
| the book. But is is very different than Fiasco. Lem seemed to
| have two styles--light and filled with clever wordplay, and
| dark tragic, with a keen focus on our species hubris (Solaris,
| Fiasco). Fiasco is probably my third favorite after Cyberiad
| and Solaris. The Ijon Tichy stories are mostly of the light
| variety.
|
| https://booksvooks.com/fullbook/the-cyberiad-stories-pdf-sta...
| samstave wrote:
| I wrote this flash-fiction in ~2010 after it was revealed
| that one of the founders of google was on wired investing in
| gene therapy after seeing he was susceptible to a genetic
| trait to have a certain disease:
|
| ---
|
| In the year 2010, scientists perfected suspended animation
| through the use of cryogenics for the purpose of surgery.
| After more than a decade of study and refinement, long term
| suspended animation became a reality, yet a privilege
| reserved for only the most wealthy and influential.
|
| The thinking at the time was that only those who showed a
| global and fundamental contribution to society (while still
| viewed through the ridiculously tinted lenses of the global
| elite of the era) were worthy of entering into such state.
|
| The process was both incredibly complex and costly. As each
| Transport, as they were known, required their own stand alone
| facility to be built around them. Significant resources were
| put into the development of each facility as they required
| complete autonomous support systems to accommodate whatever
| duration was selected by the Transport.
|
| Standalone, yet fully redundant, power, security and life
| support systems were essential to the longevity of each
| facility.
|
| Additionally, it was recognized that monetary resources would
| be subject to change over time, especially fiat-currency
| based resources. Thus there was a need to place physical
| holders of value that would be perceived to not
| deplete/dilute over time into the facilities for use by the
| Transport when they resuscitate.
|
| These resources are the most sought after treasure of the new
| world.
|
| After hundreds of years of human progress, civilization could
| no longer sustain itself in an organized self-supporting
| system. Through utter corruption of what some call the human
| soul, the world has fallen dark. There are very few outposts
| of safety in the current Trial of Life, as its now known.
|
| Many Transporters have been found, resuscitated and exploited
| already. There are believed to be many many more, but their
| locations are both secret and secure. Akin to your life
| relying on the discovery of an undisturbed Tomb of a Pharaoh
| - even though every consciousness on the planet is also
| seeking the same tomb.
|
| They are the last bastion of hope for they alone have the
| reserves of precious materials needed to sustain life for the
| current generation.
|
| Metals, technology (however outdated), medicines, seeds,
| weapons and minerals are all a part of each Transport 'Crop'.
|
| One find can support a group or community for years alone
| based on the barter and renewable resource potentials in each
| Crop.
|
| One transport, found in 2465, that of a long dead nanotech
| pioneer - who was purportedly responsible for much of the
| cybernetic medical capabilities of the 21st century, which he
| sought to cure his genetic predisposition for a certain
| disease, was so vast that the still powerful city-state in
| the western province of North America was able to be founded.
|
| The resources of this individual were extraordinary, but his
| resuscitation, as they all are, was rather gruesome and cold.
|
| The security systems in each Transport Facility are biometric
| and very complex. They can only be accessed by a living, calm
| and (relatively) healthy Transport.
|
| If the system, and its control mechanism AI, detect signs of
| duress, stress or serious injury to the Transport - they go
| into fail-safe. Which is to say they self detonate. Taking
| with them all resources, the Transport and the Seekers as
| well.
|
| There have been many instances of this, such that the art of
| successful Resuscitation has become an extremely profitable
| business.
|
| The most active and successful Resuscitation Team (RT) have
| been the ironically named, Live Well Group.
|
| The most conniving, well practiced and profitable con in the
| history of mankind.
|
| LWG alone has been responsible for the resuscitation of more
| than 370Transports. Their group is currently the most
| powerful in the world. With their own city-state, established
| after the Brin case mentioned, they have a cast of thousands
| of cons all working to ensure the Transport believes they
| have been Awakened to a new, advanced, safe world and that
| they would be allowed to stake part in a significant way now
| that they have been Transported.
|
| They are fooled into releasing their resources, then brutally
| tortured for information about any other Transports or any
| other knowledge they may possess, which invariably is less
| than nothing.
|
| It is a hard world out there now, and the LWGs ruthless
| strive to locate the thousands of other Transport Facilities
| is both the worst aspect of our modern struggle - yet
| ironically will serve to be the basis of the ongoing endeavor
| of the species.
|
| There is rumor of a vast facility of resources and Transports
| in an underground 'CITY' of the most elite Transports ever. A
| facility supposedly comprised of the 13 most powerful and
| rich bloodlines of people to have ever existed.
|
| It is not known which continent this facility is on, but I
| believe it is in Antarctica - fully automated and with the
| ability to auto-resuscitate at a given time.
| fallingfrog wrote:
| Cyberiad is one of my favorite books! Good to see him getting
| some attention.
| ChuckMcM wrote:
| I love Lem's work. I read "Tales of Pirx the Pilot" and then had
| to read everything I could find of his.
| Slow_Hand wrote:
| I'm seeing lots of love for The Cyberiad (and rightly so), but so
| far no mention of one of my favorites 'A Perfect Vacuum', which
| is presented as a collection of book reviews for non-existent
| (made up) books. I find that it can give new readers a broad
| sampling of all of Lem's different writing styles; from the
| absurd, creative and hilarious to his more somber, philosophical
| and "hard" scientific style.
|
| Just look at the premises of all of the "books" reviewed in this
| volume: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Perfect_Vacuum
|
| It's a playground for Lem's invention and all of his favorite
| themes. It's absurdity always makes me laugh harder than just
| about any other writer I know (with the noteworthy exception of
| Charlie Kaufman, who was greatly influenced by Lem).
|
| Strong recommend for someone who doesn't know where to begin with
| Lem.
| sgwizdak wrote:
| There was a recent publishing of Lem's lesser known short stories
| that is excellent: "The Truth and Other Stories"
| https://www.amazon.com/Truth-Other-Stories-Stanislaw-Lem/dp/...
| lkrubner wrote:
| Stanislaw Lem had a genius for dissecting a certain kind of
| bureaucratic paranoia, and so I very much wish Lem was around to
| write something about the very bad intelligence that convinced
| Putin that the invasion of Ukraine would be easy. In "Memoirs
| Found in a Bathtub" Lem relates the story of a man who has just
| joined the secret intelligence service and who now needs to find
| out what his first assignment is. He goes to one part of the
| bureau to ask for his assignment, but they have no proof that he
| is who he says he is, so they send him elsewhere, so he goes to
| another part, but they are a bit suspicious that he doesn't yet
| know his assignment. How can they be sure he really is part of
| the secret intelligence service? He tries to simplify the
| conversation: where should I go to find my assignment? Now the
| bureaucrats are even more suspicious, he's asking where he can
| find more information, isn't that something an enemy spy would
| ask, to learn more about how the secret intelligence service
| works? And yet, they have to proof he is a spy, so they cannot
| accuse him, so they simply send him somewhere else. When he gets
| to that other place, the bureaucrats are even more paranoid, here
| is a guy who has been bouncing around the agency, gathering
| information, but not doing any real work? Maybe he is a spy? Yet
| they have no proof he is a spy so...
|
| A slightly different kind of paranoia and delusion shaped Russian
| intelligence on Ukraine, but I think Lem would have been the
| perfect writer to dissect it.
| pmoriarty wrote:
| This sounds very similar to Kafka.
| tsunamifury wrote:
| I think he went a bit farther in illustrating how humans
| create multiple envelopes of reality inside that bureaucratic
| paranoia -- illustrating even how they overlap in the
| Futurlogical Congress
| ajuc wrote:
| Also every visit to tax office in Poland :)
| Claude_Shannon wrote:
| every visit to any office in Poland
|
| Fixed that :D
| pmoriarty wrote:
| From Lem's _Cyberiad_ :
|
| _" I didn't build a machine to solve ridiculous crossword
| puzzles! That's hack work, not Great Art! Just give it a topic,
| any topic, as difficult as you like..."_
|
| _Klapaucius thought, and thought some more. Finally he nodded
| and said:_
|
| _" Very well. Let's have a love poem, lyrical, pastoral, and
| expressed in the language of pure mathematics. Tensor algebra
| mainly, with a little topology and higher calculus, if need be.
| But with feeling, you understand, and in the cybernetic spirit."_
|
| _" 'Love and tensor algebra?' Have you taken leave of your
| senses?"_
|
| _Trurl began, but stopped, for his electronic bard was already
| declaiming:_ Come, let us hasten to a higher
| plane, Where dyads tread the fairy fields of Venn,
| Their indices bedecked from one to n, Commingled in an
| endless Markov chain! Come, every frustum longs to
| be a cone, And ever vector dreams of matrices. Hark
| to the gentle gradient of the breeze: It whispers of a more
| ergodic zone. In Riemann, Hilbert or in Banach space
| Let superscripts and subscripts go their ways. Our
| asymptotes no longer out of phase, We shall encounter,
| counting, face to face. I'll grant thee random
| access to my heart, Thou'lt tell me all the constants of
| thy love: And so we two shall all love's lemmas prove,
| And in our bound partition never part. For what did
| Cauchy know, or Christoffel, Or Fourier, or any Boole or
| Euler, Wielding their compasses, their pens and rulers,
| Of thy supernal sinusoidal spell? Cancel me not -
| for what then shall remain? Abscissas, some mantissas,
| modules, modes, A root or two, a torus and a node:
| The inverse of my verse, a null domain. Ellipse of
| bliss, converge, O lips divine! The producs of our scalars
| is defined! Cyberiad draws nigh, and the skew mind
| Cuts capers like a happy haversine. I see the
| eigenvalue in thine eye, I hear the tender tensor in thy
| sigh. Bernoulli would have been content to die, Had
| he but known such a^2 cos 2 phi!
| GatorD42 wrote:
| I'm really curious how close this translation is to the
| original. I've read Lem in multiple languages (not Polish) and
| found huge differences seemingly based on making his wordplay
| "work" in the translated language.
| Finnucane wrote:
| I know Michael Kandel, and asked him about that once. He
| admitted that there were times when he had to literally make
| stuff up to make it work in English.
|
| Tangentially, I once had a job where I had to locate passages
| in Phil Dick's novels based on English translations of French
| editions. In many cases it was non-obvious, in a few cases it
| couldn't be done at all. There were passages in the french
| that just didn't exist in the original.
| pmoriarty wrote:
| _" I once had a job where I had to locate passages in Phil
| Dick's novels based on English translations of French
| editions. In many cases it was non-obvious, in a few cases
| it couldn't be done at all. There were passages in the
| french that just didn't exist in the original."_
|
| That's funny, because PKD once wrote of a game wherein the
| players translate from one language to another and back
| again (he wrote this long before computer translation
| existed, by the way).
|
| If anyone remembers which PKD novel this was in and any
| details about the game, I'd love to hear about it, as I no
| longer remember myself.
| srean wrote:
| > That's funny, because PKD once wrote of a game wherein
| the players translate from one language to another and
| back again (he wrote this long before computer
| translation existed, by the way).
|
| The popular, over used, example of that would be:
|
| The flesh is weak but the spirit is willing.
|
| The meat is rotten but the vodka is good.
| js2 wrote:
| It's _Galactic Pot-Healer_ :
|
| https://everything2.com/title/machine+translation
|
| https://scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/240589/need-
| author...
|
| Here's an excerpt:
|
| "Do you have a title for me?" Joe asked; he held his pen
| ready.
|
| "The Tokyo translating computer has been tied up all
| morning," Gauk answered. "So I put it through the smaller
| one at Kobe. In some respects Kobe is more--how shall I
| put it?--quaint than Tokyo." He paused, consulting a slip
| of paper; his office, like Joe's, consisted of a cubicle,
| containing only a desk, a phone, a straight-backed chair
| made of plastic and a note pad. "Ready?"
|
| "Ready." Joe made a random scratch-mark with his pen.
|
| Gauk cleared his throat and read from his slip of paper,
| a taut grin on his face; it was a sleek expression, as if
| he were certain of himself on this one. "This originated
| in your language," Gauk explained, honoring one of the
| rules which all of them together had made up, the bunch
| of them scattered here and there across the map of Earth,
| in little offices, in puny positions, with nothing to do,
| no tasks or sorrows or difficult problems. Nothing but
| the harsh vacuity of their collective society, which each
| in his own way objected to, which all of them, in
| collaboration, circumvented by means of The Game. "Book
| title," Gauk continued. "That's the only clue I'll give
| you."
|
| "Is it well known?" Joe asked.
|
| Ignoring his question, Gauk read from the slip of paper.
| "'The Lattice-work Gun-stinging Insect.'"
|
| "Gun-slinging?" Joe asked.
|
| "No. Gun-stinging."
|
| "'Lattice-work,'" Joe said, pondering. "Network.
| 'Stinging Insect.' Wasp?" He scratched with his pen,
| stumped. "And you got this from the translation computer
| at Kobe? Bee," he decided. "'Gun,' so Gun-bee. Heater-
| bee. Laser-bee. Rod-bee. Gat." He swiftly wrote that
| down. "Gat-wasp, gat-bee. Gatsby. 'Lattice-work.' That
| would be a grating. Grate." He had it now. "The Great
| Gatsby, by F. Scott Fitzgerald." He tossed down his pen
| in triumph.
|
| "Ten points for you," Gauk said. He made a tally. "That
| puts you even with Hirshmeyer in Berlin and slightly
| ahead of Smith in New York. You want to try another?"
|
| [...]
|
| Dialing his phone, he obtained a satellite relay to
| Japan; he raised Tokyo and gave the digits for the Tokyo
| translating computer. With the skill of long habit he
| obtained a direct line to the great, clanking, booming
| construct; he bypassed its host of attendants.
|
| "Oral transmission," he informed it.
|
| The hulking GX9 computer clicked over to oral, rather
| than visual, reception.
|
| "The Corn Is Green," Joe said. He turned on the recording
| unit of his phone.
|
| At once the computer answered, giving the Japanese
| equivalent.
|
| "Thank you and out," Joe said, and rang off. He then
| dialed the translating computer at Washington, D.C.
| Rewinding the tape of his phone recorder he fed the
| Japanese words--again in oral form--to the computer
| segment which would translate the Japanese utterance into
| English.
|
| The computer said, "The cliche is inexperienced."
|
| "Pardon?" Joe said, and laughed. "Repeat, please."
|
| "The cliche is inexperienced," the computer said with
| godlike nobility and patience.
|
| "That's an exact translation?" Joe inquired.
|
| "The cliche is--"
|
| "Okay," Joe said. "Sign off." He hung up and sat
| grinning; his energy, aroused by human amusement, surged
| up and invigorated him.
|
| For a moment he sat hesitating, deciding, and then he
| dialed good ol' Smith in New York.
|
| "Office of Procurement and Supply, Wing Seven," Smith
| said; his beaglelike face, haunted by ennui, manifested
| itself on the little gray screen. "Oh, hey there,
| Fernwright. Got something for me?"
|
| "An easy one," Joe said. "'The Cliche Is--'"
|
| "Wait'll you hear mine," Smith interrupted. "Me first;
| come on, Joe--this is a great one. You'll never get it.
| Listen." He read swiftly, stammering over the words.
| "Bogish Persistentisms. By Shaft Tackapple."
| samstave wrote:
| I am convinced PKD is a time traveler
| Finnucane wrote:
| Galactic Pot-Healer is one of my favorite PKD novels, and
| yes, it was foremost in my mind while I was doing this.
| minusf wrote:
| i can't read polish but i do 2 other slavic languages and
| majored in english. i have no idea how i would even
| approach a translation project like for example The
| Futurological Congress. the level of wordplay involved in
| Lem's novels necessitates the creation of an entirely
| separate work of literature where the original is merely a
| source of inspiration...
|
| Michael Kandel's translations are breathtakingly beautiful
| and sublime. they do an amazing job of bridging the slavic
| and the germanic which is almost on the level of Nabokov
| (an unfair comparison as in that case the translator is the
| author).
|
| And that brings us to the sad blemish on Lem's english body
| of work: Solaris. Could you ask him please please please
| why there never was one by him? that such an important work
| is available in print only as a translation of a
| translation (from french)? Let's crowdsource it!
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solaris_(novel)#English_trans
| l...
| Finnucane wrote:
| >Could you ask him please please please why there never
| was one by him?
|
| I already know the answer. And the answer of course was
| money. Lem's US publisher just wasn't willing to front
| the cost of a new translation.
| sgwizdak wrote:
| There is a translation of Solaris by Bill Johnston that
| is available as a Kindle e-book that is a direct
| translation from Polish. IIRC, there are licensing issues
| with providing a print version of it.
| ttctciyf wrote:
| You might like to read a page[1] which allows you to compare
| Kandel's version with a literal translation of the
|
| > poem about a haircut! But lofty, noble, tragic, timeless,
| full of love, treachery, retribution, quiet heroism in the
| face of certain doom! Six lines, cleverly rhymed, and every
| word beginning with the letter S!!
|
| which was duly delivered by Trurl's Electrobard in the same
| story.
|
| 1: https://mwichary.medium.com/seduced-shaggy-samson-
| snored-725...
| Metacelsus wrote:
| In Polish, it's a mathematical tragic love poem. I've been
| studying Polish for 2 years, and I still don't fully
| understand all the wordplay here; it's pretty complicated.
|
| Niesmialy cybernetyk potezne ekstrema
|
| Poznawal, kiedy grupy unimodularne
|
| Cyberiady calkowal w popoludnie parne,
|
| Nie wiedzac, czy jest milosc, czy jeszcze jej nie ma.
|
| Precz mi, precz, Laplasjany z wieczora do ranka,
|
| I wersory wektorow z ranka do wieczora!
|
| Blizej, przeciwobrazy! Blizej, bo juz pora
|
| Zredukowac kochanke do objec kochanka!
|
| On drzenia wpolmetryczne, ktore jek jednoczy,
|
| Zmieni w grupy obrotow i sprzezenia zwrotne,
|
| A takie kaskadowe, a takie zawrotne,
|
| Ze zwarciem zagrazaja, idac z oczu w oczy!
|
| Ty, klaso transfinalna! Ty, silna wielkosci!
|
| Nieprzywiedlne continuum! Praukladzie bialy!
|
| Christoffela ze Stoksem oddam na wiek caly
|
| Za pierwsza i ostatnia pochodna milosci.
|
| Twych skalarnych przestrzeni wielolistne glebie
|
| Ukaz uwiklanemu w Teoremat Ciala,
|
| Cyberiado cyprysow, bimodalnie cala
|
| W gradientach, rozmnozonych na loty golebie!
|
| O, nie dozyl rozkoszy, kto tak bez siwizny
|
| Ani w przestrzeni Weyla, ani Brouwera
|
| Studium topologiczne usciskiem otwiera,
|
| Badajac Moebiusowi nie znane krzywizny!
|
| O, wielopowlokowa uczuc komitanto,
|
| Wiele trzeba cie cenic, ten sie dowie tylko,
|
| Kto takich parametrow przeczuwajac fantom,
|
| Ginie w nanosekundach, plonac kazda chwilka!
|
| Jak punkt, wchodzacy w uklad holonomicznosci,
|
| Pozbawiany wspolrzednych zera asymptota,
|
| Tak w ostatniej projekcji, ostatnia pieszczota
|
| Zegnany - cybernetyk umiera z milosci.
| xyzzyz wrote:
| Here's a non-poetical translation in more straightforward
| English using standard word ordering in a sentence.
| Needless to say, Kandel's "translation" is not so much a
| translation, but really a completely new poem. Hope that
| will make it easier for you to appreciate the original:
|
| A shy cyberneticists got to know[1] some powerful extremes,
|
| when he integrated[2] cyberiads[3] on a steamy afternoon,
|
| not knowing whether there is love, or there isn't yet.
|
| Get out of my face[4], get out, Laplacians from evening to
| morning,
|
| and versors of the vectors from morning to evening.
|
| Come closer, preimages! Closer, because it's time
|
| to reduce the lover into the embrace of the lover[5].
|
| He will change half-metric trembles, united by moans,
|
| into rotation groups and feedbacks[6],
|
| so cascading, and so stunning,
|
| that they risk a short-circuit, going from eye to eye!
|
| You, transfinal class! You, strong enormity!
|
| Irreducible continuum! White pre-structure!
|
| I'll give up Christoffel and Stokes for an entire century
|
| in exchange for the first and the last derivative of love.
|
| Show the multipronged[7] depths of your scalar spaces
|
| to the one who's entangled[8] in the Theorem of the
| Body[9],
|
| you, cyberiad of cypresses, entirely bimodal
|
| in gradients, multiplied into pidgeon flights!
|
| Lo, he did not live to experience pleasure, who so without
| grey hair,
|
| neither in Weyl nor Brouwer spaces,
|
| topological study opens with an embrace,
|
| studying curvatures not known to Moebius!
|
| Lo, multilayered comittant[10] of feelings,
|
| how much you need to be treasured will only be learned by
| the one[11]
|
| who, experiencing phantom of such parameters,
|
| dies in nanoseconds, burning every moment!
|
| Like a point, entering into holonomy configuration,
|
| losing coordinates of zero on an asymptote,
|
| in a last projection, with a last caress,
|
| dies from love the cyberneticist, when he's bid farewell.
|
| [1] - "poznawal" in original, past form of "poznawac", the
| most important meanings are "to be meeting a new person",
| "to be recognizing something/someone", or "to be learning
| something", hard to figure out which meaning is intended.
|
| [2] - "calkowal", a mathematical term meaning "to
| integrate"
|
| [3] - a word made up by Lem
|
| [4] - "precz"
|
| [5] - first "lover" is female, second is male
|
| [6] - "sprzezenia zwrotne"
|
| [7] - "wielolistne", literally "multileaved", from "leaf",
| "lisc"
|
| [8] - "uwiklanemu", probably a reference to "twierdzenie o
| funkcji uwiklanej", "implicit function theorem"
|
| [9] - "Teoremat Ciala", a more mathematical translation
| would have "Theorem of the Field", as the mathematical
| concept of the "field" translates to "cialo" (body) in
| Polish, similar to e.g. "Korper" in German, which also
| stands for "mathematical field".
|
| [10] - "komitanto", I don't even know what this word is
| supposed to mean in Polish.
|
| [11] - a verse from very famous Polish epic poem "Pan
| Tadeusz" by Adam Mickiewicz
| kubanczyk wrote:
| > [10] - "komitanto", I don't even know what this word is
| supposed to mean in Polish.
|
| In English "comitant":
| https://encyclopediaofmath.org/wiki/Comitant
| xyzzyz wrote:
| Ah, thanks. This is rather obsolete terminology, these
| days people tend to talk about "equivariant maps"
| ("przeksztalcenia przemienne z dzialaniem",
| "przeksztalenia niezmiennicze", or "przeksztalcenia
| ekwiwariantne"). I certainly never heard of it.
| arcticbull wrote:
| Curious what made you want to learn Polish. It's not
| exactly a broadly spoken language. There isn't really much
| of a diaspora. It was my first language, but I don't really
| get much practice these days - outside trips to the Polish
| Store to pick up some suche kabanosy.
| Metacelsus wrote:
| Uczylem sie zeby rozmawiac z rodzicami mojej dziewczyny.
|
| Mainly to talk with my girlfriend's parents. I'm also 50%
| Polish but never spoke it growing up.
| kuboble wrote:
| I believe love to be the major motivation of foreigners
| to learn polish.
| pmoriarty wrote:
| Here's Google translate's version: Shy
| cybernetic powerful extremes He recognized when
| unimodular groups Cyberiads were integrated on a
| steamy afternoon, Not knowing if there is love or not
| yet. Away with me, away, Laplasiana from evening to
| morning, And vectors of vectors from morning to
| evening! Closer, counterpictures! Closer, because
| it's time Reduce the mistress to the embrace of the
| lover! He tremors half a meter, which a groan unites,
| Change into rotation groups and feedbacks, And so
| cascading, and so dizzying, That they threaten with a
| short circuit, going from eye to eye! You transfinal
| class! You, strong greatness! Unwind continuum! Pre-
| layout white! I will give Christoffel and Stoks for a
| century For the first and last derivative of love.
| Your scalar spaces have multi-leaf depths Show those
| involved in the Body Theorem, Cyberiada of cypresses,
| bimodal whole In gradients, pigeons multiplied for
| flights! Oh, he did not live up to the pleasure of
| anyone without gray hair Neither in Weyl's space, nor
| in Brouwer's A topological study opens with an
| embrace, When examining Moebius, no curvature known!
| O, the multi-skin of comitanto feelings, You have to
| treasure a lot, this one will only find out Who such
| parameters, sensing the phantom, It dies in
| nanoseconds, burning every moment! Like a point that
| is part of the holonomic system, Without the zero
| coordinates an asymptote, Yes, in the last
| projection, the last caress Farewell - the cybernetic
| dies of love.
| lmilcin wrote:
| Polish guy here. And Lem fan, too. Ask anything you want.
| karol wrote:
| Native Polish speaker.
|
| To get out the max of this poem you need to be versed in
| Polish lang of course, but also mathematics and basic
| history of Polish literature.
|
| The poem is a mock-erotyk (quasi "poem about lovemaking")
| where the mechanics of love are replaced with mechanics of
| mathematics. It works very well with calka (integral) which
| creates a fantastic replacement calkowac (determine
| integral) instead of calowac (kiss).
|
| The other place that speaks volumes about this being
| satirical is an almost word for word quote from Polish
| national epos called "Pan Tadeusz": Wiele trzeba cie cenic,
| ten sie dowie tylko" (Much you must be valued, he will only
| know), which for a Pole is an instantly recognisable
| stylistic device.
|
| It also mentions a lot of math which is either made up or
| way above my head so I won't comment about that.
| samstave wrote:
| We need a word for the curious, but ill-equipped, mind
| which seeks to understand the works of minds greater than
| our own.
|
| I am in love with all things - and I recognize that while
| I am "smart" I am not "smart" like others, but I seek to
| gain not just their understanding, but their wisdom oof
| the universe of thought.
| jandrese wrote:
| DeepL translate struggled a lot with that:
|
| Shy cybernetic powerful extremes
|
| He met when unimodular groups
|
| Cyberiads totaled on a sultry afternoon,
|
| Not knowing if there was love or not yet.
|
| The world of the world, the world of the world, the world
| of the world, the world of the world, the world of the
| world,
|
| And verses of vectors from morning to evening!
|
| Closer, counter-images! Closer, because it's time
|
| To reduce the lover to the embrace of the lover!
|
| He'll make the half-metric tremors that moan unite,
|
| He'll turn them into groups of turns and feedbacks,
|
| And so cascading and so dizzying
|
| That they short-circuit, going from eye to eye!
|
| Thou, transfinal class! Thou, strong of greatness!
|
| The uninhabitable continuum! Praucus white!
|
| Christoffel with Stoks I will give up for a whole age
|
| For the first and last derivative of love.
|
| Thy scalar spaces' multilinear depths
|
| Show the entangled in the Theorem of the Body,
|
| Cyberiad to cypresses, bimodally whole
|
| In gradients, multiplied into flights of pigeons!
|
| Oh, he did not live to enjoy, who so without gray hair
|
| Nor in Weyl's space, nor Brouwer's
|
| The topological study with an embrace opens,
|
| Studying curves unknown to Moebius!
|
| O, multilayered comitant of feelings,
|
| Much you must be valued, he will only know,
|
| Who, sensing the phantom of such parameters,
|
| Dies in nanoseconds, burning every moment!
|
| Like a point, entering the system of holonomy,
|
| deprived of the coordinates of zero by an asymptote,
|
| So in the last projection, the last caress
|
| Farewelled - the cyberneticist dies of love.
| ineedasername wrote:
| That is incredible. It would be an absurd request to ask if a
| human much less a computer, and so in filling it so well Lem
| demonstrates the machine's capabilities fat better than any
| catalog if spec's or everyday human-level task could convey. A
| truly masterful example of "show, don't tell".
| throwlem wrote:
| Well, I have just tried with GPT-3
|
| Prompt (almost verbatim Lem): "Write a love poem, lyrical,
| pastoral, and expressed in the language of pure mathematics.
| Tensor algebra mainly, with a little topology and higher
| calculus, if need be. But with feeling and in the cybernetic
| spirit. In verses."
|
| Output: In the space of my heart your
| love is a point defined by certain coordinates
| (x, y, z) that exist in a specific time t.
| But your love is more than that it's also a vector
| with magnitude and direction that can be graphed on a
| coordinate plane. Your love is a function of
| time and space it's a curve that's always changing
| but always coming back to me. It's the limit of my
| heart's desires and the product of our two hearts'
| vectors.
|
| Yes, it sucks, but it looks like we're getting there.
| gwern wrote:
| I beat you to that a long time ago:
| https://www.gwern.net/GPT-3#stanislaw-lems-cyberiad :)
| samstave wrote:
| HOLY CRAP!
|
| That poem is epic. I LOVE IT!
|
| ---
|
| That's one of the best things I have read.
| ajuc wrote:
| GPT3 :) ?
| billiam wrote:
| Wow, that does suck. And where exactly are do you think we
| are getting? Use enough flops to raise the temp of the
| planet slightly to make banal doggerel? Seems like quite
| the wrong thing to do with GPT-3.
| samstave wrote:
| I think that poem is beautiful.... Apparently, I am the
| Beholder.
| baal80spam wrote:
| We celebrated a Lem Year [1] in 2021. Absolutely timeless author
| that I love to get back to.
|
| [1] https://lem2021.org
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(page generated 2022-03-16 23:01 UTC)