[HN Gopher] The US Tried Permanent Daylight Saving Time in the '...
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       The US Tried Permanent Daylight Saving Time in the '70s. People
       Hated It
        
       Author : cmurf
       Score  : 22 points
       Date   : 2022-03-15 20:04 UTC (2 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.washingtonian.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.washingtonian.com)
        
       | jamesliudotcc wrote:
       | Institutions have computers now. So they should be able to have
       | hours to fit the sun with far less trouble.
        
         | tryptophan wrote:
         | Seriously. Don't understand why businesses can't have hours
         | like "from sunup to sundown".
         | 
         | Wouldn't even need to check the time to see if it is open or
         | not, you can just look outside.
         | 
         | Plus...we have the super advanced technology needed to figure
         | out when sundown is on our smartphones!
        
           | moltke wrote:
           | Many parks do this. It makes a ton of sense. IMO the best
           | system for businesses that need rigid times would be to have
           | separate winter and summer hours or just make the opening
           | time <x> integer hours from sunrise.
        
             | tyldum wrote:
             | Polar area here. So, in the transition from summer to
             | winter the day is shortened about 15-20 minutes each day.
             | And vice versa from winter to summer.
             | 
             | And at some point in the summer, the sun never sets. During
             | winter it never rises...
             | 
             | Time isn't easy on a global scale.
        
       | rdtwo wrote:
       | Northern folks will finally get an hour back after work to do
       | things
        
       | ehutch79 wrote:
       | Fine, make standard time permanent instead.
        
       | cafard wrote:
       | I was there, Charlie.
       | 
       | In the winter of 1973-1974 I was carpooling to college, leaving
       | the house about 6:30 to get to campus before 8. I could have done
       | without the DST. It was imposed with the notion of saving energy
       | after the oil shock. Did it really save energy, though?
        
       | sschueller wrote:
       | Why can't we do a 30 minute shift? Then we get rid of this back
       | and forth and we get the best of both worlds. What am I missing
       | here?
        
         | silisili wrote:
         | One negative would be you'd need to get the entire world on
         | board. I mean, there are a handful of off-by-30 time zones in
         | existence, but the rest of the world is in sync in that way.
        
           | skissane wrote:
           | India and Sri Lanka use a 30 minute offset (+5:30 all year
           | round). So does part of Australia (Northern Territory is
           | +9:30 year round, South Australia is +9:30 standard time and
           | +10:30 daylight saving.) And one Canadian province (the most
           | populated parts of Newfoundland and Labrador are on -3:30
           | standard time, -2:3 daylight saving.) It doesn't cause any of
           | these places any major difficulty. If the US were to adopt 30
           | minute timezone offsets, I don't see how that would cause the
           | US any major difficulty either. Probably would break some
           | buggy software which was written for US domestic use only and
           | assumes timezone offsets are hourly, but buggy software can
           | be patched or replaced.
        
         | WorldMaker wrote:
         | It depends on what you are optimizing for and _where_ you are
         | optimizing for. Standard and Daylight times have different
         | meanings in different sides of the time zone. On Eastern edges
         | of a time zone Standard time truly is more  "standard" with
         | respect to solar noon. On Western edges of a time zone Daylight
         | time starts to be more preferable and closer to solar noon.
         | Half-hour between the two might favor the "middle" of the time
         | zone perhaps and/or it might just leave all the populations on
         | either side of the time zone unhappy.
         | 
         | Arguably our timezones have grown too wide to accommodate
         | preferences of both edges. Our timezones were optimized for
         | train schedules and full hour-wide zones made some sense based
         | on the speed of train travel. Maybe instead of trying to pick
         | just "Standard" Time or just Daylight Time we should instead be
         | talking about narrowing our time zones (to half-hour wide,
         | perhaps) and better figure out what geography we are best
         | trying to represent versus solar noon, the center of a
         | timezone, one edge or the other.
        
       | ouid wrote:
       | Is this really all fueled by having to change your clocks?
       | 
       | The primary driver of your circadian rhythm is the hours of
       | daylight. Left to their own devices, (ie literally excluding
       | alarm clocks) humans wake up at sunrise. Daylight savings time is
       | an attempt to make it easy for institutions to have canonical
       | hours while also attempting to account for this essential fact
       | about human physiology. It feels weird because it's optimizing
       | two things simultaneously.
        
         | thawaya3113 wrote:
         | Your comment neatly encapsulates the problem.
         | 
         | If the primary driver of our circadian rhythm is sunlight,
         | switching from DST and back leads you to doing stuff an hour
         | off from your body's natural circadian rhythm.
         | 
         | It's not about changing your clock. It's about changing your
         | body's schedule.
        
           | ouid wrote:
           | The hour of sunlight is approximately sinusoidal. Changing
           | time is approximating the sinusoid with a square wave. It's
           | not as smooth as it could be, but smoothing it out would
           | cause more accounting problems than it would solve. It is
           | also easier to manage than having schools and businesses
           | change their hours in winter, which is the other way to
           | approach the solution. If you want a smoother transition you
           | are fully in control of that.
        
         | area51org wrote:
         | It's fueled by the exhaustion caused by monkeying with what
         | time it is. It's not about circadian rhythms. It's about having
         | to wake up an hour early and pretend that you got enough sleep,
         | and for no good reason.
        
       | JoeAltmaier wrote:
       | People are different now.
       | 
       | It's the old tired refrain "We already tried that!* (*under
       | different circumstances, at a different time, with a different
       | generation)
        
         | Wowfunhappy wrote:
         | How do you know people are different now? Shouldn't we learn
         | from history and do something different this time around, like
         | permanent standard time?
         | 
         | We did permanent standard time in the past, too, and people
         | didn't seem to have a problem with it.
        
       | area51org wrote:
       | The past is prologue and not necessarily predictive. That was
       | then; this is now.
        
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       (page generated 2022-03-15 23:02 UTC)