[HN Gopher] In birdsong, scientists find some parallels with hum...
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       In birdsong, scientists find some parallels with human speech
        
       Author : bryanrasmussen
       Score  : 80 points
       Date   : 2022-03-14 08:29 UTC (14 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.smithsonianmag.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.smithsonianmag.com)
        
       | servytor wrote:
       | I remember part of this book called "The Symbolic Species: The
       | Co-evolution of Language and the Brain", and the author got so
       | angry when layman compared birdsong to speech. It was a very
       | interesting book though.
        
       | geenew wrote:
       | This episode of BBC Discovery from 2015 covered the topic and was
       | quite interesting.
       | 
       | https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p02rmjbd
        
       | totetsu wrote:
       | it's always fun to take a look at bird song recordings with
       | Audacity spectrum view.
        
       | Gravityloss wrote:
       | https://www.windytan.com/2021/03/speech-to-birdsong-conversi...
        
         | dang wrote:
         | Discussed here:
         | 
         |  _Speech to Birdsong Conversion_ -
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26626417 - March 2021 (27
         | comments)
        
       | sdenton4 wrote:
       | By the way, we're running a Kaggle birdsong species id
       | competition right now, for anyone who would like to try their
       | hand:
       | 
       | https://www.kaggle.com/c/birdclef-2022
       | 
       | The focus this year is on few-shot learning for rare+endangered
       | species classification.
        
       | peterburkimsher wrote:
       | Let's build a bird modem, and let them join Twitter!
       | 
       | It would also be quite fun to make a user interface where a bird
       | could "fly" through Google Street View, and sense the location
       | changing based on an electromagnet instead of the magnetic north
       | pole that they normally use for navigation.
       | 
       | Since August 2021, I've been trying to apply UncleBob's advice to
       | "clean as you go" (Scout Rule) and picking up litter while biking
       | to work.
       | 
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSaAMQVq01E&t=2021s
       | 
       | The birds have been particularly friendly and thankful. Pigeons
       | and Pukekos help pick up food from the ground. They're all
       | surprisingly trusting (especially if I have some fish & chips to
       | share). Seagulls look down, and shout about litter. Sparrows are
       | smaller, faster, and have lower energy requirements, so eat
       | smaller pieces of food.
       | 
       | So while I'm going around looking to pick up biohazard waste
       | (used masks in bushes), the birds are helping, and it would be so
       | nice to let them chat to each other, even if we don't understand
       | their QPSK or other encoding schemes. Parrots get so bored in
       | cages, let's put them on the Internet :)
        
       | jcims wrote:
       | More of an artistic exploration but I think somehow still gets at
       | a similar intuition in this context. Oona Raisanen (aka windytan)
       | did a small write up and some code about how human speech limited
       | to a single harmonic actually sounds a bit like birdsong.
       | 
       | https://www.windytan.com/2021/03/speech-to-birdsong-conversi...
       | 
       | YouTube video at the bottom provides an example. She also makes
       | code available to duplicate.
        
       | ChaitanyaSai wrote:
       | The song of plain-tailed wrens is fascinating. Male and female
       | birds perform a high-tempo duet where it's hard to tell it is two
       | birds doing the singing.
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3GprtBhekA
       | 
       | (We discuss songbirds and the importance of sequence
       | building/remembering for language in our recent book. Here's a
       | review: https://www.kirkusreviews.com/book-reviews/ogi-
       | ogas/journey-... )
        
         | circlefavshape wrote:
         | Any progress in establish whether the song is, in fact,
         | language?
        
           | ChaitanyaSai wrote:
           | ML techniques are leading to some interesting work in
           | determining this. Here's one such example https://journals.pl
           | os.org/ploscompbiol/article?id=10.1371/jo... Female zebra
           | finches do not sing, only males do. I'd imagine that if bird
           | song is high on communication, it would be seen in both sexes
           | (and there are song birds where females sing, but not studied
           | as much as far as I know.) tldr: still unclear, but new
           | techniques give us hope we can answer
        
             | ericbarrett wrote:
             | I wouldn't be so quick to write off birdsong as speech
             | based on this one species--given the dramatic variability
             | in form, behavior, and habitat across the animal kingdom, a
             | particular family of birds where the males don't "talk"
             | wouldn't surprise me at all.
        
           | xoserr wrote:
           | I remember walking early morning last summer, listening to
           | the birds and thinking how absurd it is to believe this isn't
           | a type of language.
           | 
           | I guess it would depend on what is considered the minimum
           | constraints to be considered a language.
        
       | user-the-name wrote:
       | https://www.windytan.com/2021/03/speech-to-birdsong-conversi...
        
       | Samuslav wrote:
       | I live with a Green Aracari, and I swear there's more than just
       | signal in the noise. They make fast-paced series of rattles and
       | chattering sounds, where different patterns of pitch have
       | different meanings-- reminds me of the "tonemes" of tonal human
       | language. But there are without a doubt sounds that map cleanly
       | to certain meanings- one sound in particular means hawk or "sky
       | problem" and I can replicate it and get the bird into lookout
       | mode immediately. The species is known for cooperative hunting
       | (nest raiding), so it wouldn't surprise me if they had at least
       | some basic communication patterns approaching language.
        
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       (page generated 2022-03-14 23:01 UTC)