[HN Gopher] NYT shutting down the Wordle archive
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       NYT shutting down the Wordle archive
        
       Author : dtagames
       Score  : 74 points
       Date   : 2022-03-13 21:29 UTC (1 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (gamerant.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (gamerant.com)
        
       | Ansil849 wrote:
       | The NYT has put a shitton of advertising trackers on their Wordle
       | site [1], has censored words from the original word list [2], and
       | now this.
       | 
       | These kinds of user-hostile actions are exactly why I will never
       | support them.
       | 
       | [1] https://gizmodo.com/wordle-ad-trackers-privacy-new-york-
       | time...
       | 
       | [2] https://www.newsweek.com/wordle-bans-slave-new-york-times-
       | of...
        
         | johannes1234321 wrote:
         | What's user hostile in taking words off the list? I don't
         | really see how that impacts the experience.
         | 
         | Adding trackers is the expected move, when going from a hobby
         | site to a publisher. This is something which has to be fixed
         | systematically by proper legislation.
        
           | Ansil849 wrote:
           | > What's user hostile in taking words off the list? I don't
           | really see how that impacts the experience.
           | 
           | If you don't see how removing words off the wordlist impacts
           | the experience, I really can't explain it to you, it's a
           | tautology: removing words impacts the experience precisely by
           | removing words. Because you can no longer use the removed
           | word in gameplay, as you could previously. Therefore
           | experience is impacted.
           | 
           | > Adding trackers is the expected move
           | 
           | It being 'expected' has no bearing on it not being palatable
           | and being user hostile.
        
             | paulcole wrote:
             | > Therefore experience is impacted
             | 
             | This is like saying stubbing your toe on a grain of sand
             | impacts the experience of your foot.
             | 
             | Yes, you are technically correct that the Wordle experience
             | has changed, but it hasn't changed in a meaningful (or even
             | noticeable) way for 99.9% of Wordle players.
        
               | Ansil849 wrote:
               | If your criteria is some specific quantity instead of one
               | around the ethics of censorship, would you likewise be OK
               | with dictionaries removing a small percentage of words?
               | Under the same pretense, that this removal would surely
               | only impact .1% of those who may consult a dictionary in
               | a meaningful (or even noticeable) way?
               | 
               | If anything, the fact that the censorship is hard to
               | notice makes it all the more pernicious and harmful.
        
             | johannes1234321 wrote:
             | Maybe it changes the difficulty, but hostile. But yeah, I
             | know what your beef is ...
        
             | Steko wrote:
             | I take delight knowing that it drives racists crazy so it's
             | improved my user experience.
        
               | Ansil849 wrote:
               | Did a lot of racists play Wordle on the NYT page? Is
               | there a stormfront thread about it or something? I
               | haven't really seen any news of racists being outraged by
               | this; likely because many of the removed words are not
               | racially-charged terms.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | nojito wrote:
       | I mean NYT Games' strategy is to put game archives behind a
       | subscription.
       | 
       | See here for crosswords: https://help.nytimes.com/hc/en-
       | us/articles/360051947672-New-...
       | 
       | Doubt they will ever go after un-named clones though.
        
         | bin_bash wrote:
         | They might go after the trademark
        
           | donohoe wrote:
           | Unfortunately I think they have little choice. If you don't
           | enforce a trademark then you risk losing it.
        
             | bin_bash wrote:
             | People say this a lot but there aren't many examples of
             | this actually happening in legal matters.
             | 
             | The bigger risk is losing the trademark inside of people's
             | minds--which would have to happen first anyways. Similar to
             | Velcro, which still legally has the trademark but to the
             | public it's genericized.
        
               | donohoe wrote:
               | My understanding is that it happens enough that lawyers
               | worry enough about it and therefore chase these things
               | down constantly.
               | 
               | Over the years I have received cease-and desists from
               | nice lawyers for Virgin Atlantic, The Coke-Cola Company
               | (I had a Chrome extension called "Facebook Classic" that
               | restored the reverse-chronological feed when FB started
               | moving away from that), and an unofficial polite pre-
               | lawyer request from The New York Times.
        
       | charcircuit wrote:
       | Wordle is not open source. You do not have a license to
       | redistribute it.
        
         | qbasic_forever wrote:
         | The gameplay rules of Wordle are not patented or protected.
         | Anyone can make a clone with the same rules, just don't call it
         | Wordle or use trademarked/copyrighted names associated with it.
         | 
         | See more here:
         | https://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=cd3b3bbc-03d8...
        
         | OrderlyTiamat wrote:
         | I didn't see any mention of license back when it wasn't bought
         | yet, what license did it used to be under before NYT?
        
           | johannes1234321 wrote:
           | There is no license which allows you redistribution. Default
           | in copyright. A license is needed tongtant you tights. (fair
           | use etc. exists of course)
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | Someone1234 wrote:
       | See this previous HN thread for how difficult NYT makes it to
       | cancel:
       | 
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26174269
       | 
       | This is the kind of dark-pattern/anti-consumer stuff you should
       | expect if you must keep using Wordle-branded Wordle (as opposed
       | to one of their competitors).
        
         | teaearlgraycold wrote:
         | I use privacy.com (single use/purpose card number generator)
         | for my NYT subscription because of that part.
        
           | jrockway wrote:
           | They don't cancel your subscription when your credit card
           | number stops working. They keep charging you, and send the
           | account balance to a collections agency. So hopefully you
           | signed up with a fake name and fake address.
        
         | DoneWithAllThat wrote:
         | What is the relevance of this at all to the topic we're
         | discussing?
        
           | gdulli wrote:
           | It's outrage culture. The people who don't like a thing use
           | their dislike as a wildcard, making it relevant to every
           | discussion involving that thing.
        
           | Ansil849 wrote:
           | The relevance is that the NYT has a sordid history of user
           | hostile actions, and this is just the latest in a long line
           | of them. In other words, the relevance is in highlighting
           | that this is kind of conduct is part of a pattern, not an
           | aberration. This is relevant, as it helps situate the action.
        
         | imgabe wrote:
         | You don't need a subscription to play Wordle
        
           | nixass wrote:
           | Yet
        
           | koolba wrote:
           | At one point, pre 2011 I think, you didn't need one for the
           | crossword either.
        
         | gumby wrote:
         | ...unless you live in California. In some ways this is a minor
         | issue, but it would be best for everyone, _including
         | subscription service providers_ , if this kind of thing were
         | banned by law.
        
       | blamazon wrote:
       | Can we just admire for a moment that the person who made Wordle
       | is named Josh Wardle. That's amazing.
       | 
       | (That a side project punnily named after his last name became
       | such a phenomenon)
        
         | jachee wrote:
         | Yeah, he named it after himself. It's really not a coincidence.
         | :)
        
         | booleandilemma wrote:
         | And Lou Gehrig got Lou Gehrig's disease, what are the chances?
        
       | PragmaticPulp wrote:
       | I'm not a Wordle player so I was confused about why they'd shut
       | down the archive part of their acquisition.
       | 
       | Reading closer, the "Wordle Archive" was a Wordle clone site that
       | allowed people to play old Wordles.
       | 
       | No surprise that they'd be asking clone sites, especially those
       | using both the trademark and exact content, to shut down. You
       | can't expect to clone Wordle, call it Wordle, use the Wordle
       | words, and expect the Wordle owners to look the other way. This
       | seems like a non-story.
        
         | alar44 wrote:
         | Idk, wordle isn't really new and isn't something you should be
         | able to own.
         | 
         | It'd be like claiming to own tic tac toe or rock paper
         | scissors. It's just too simple imo.
        
           | cush wrote:
           | "Wordle" is a trademark that NYT owns
        
             | dehrmann wrote:
             | Apparently a few entities own it:
             | 
             | https://tmsearch.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=toc&state=4805%3
             | A...
        
             | hartator wrote:
             | I don't think "Wordle" is a _registered_ trademark.
        
           | jeroenhd wrote:
           | I don't think "wordle" was a popular name for the game before
           | it got popular on the internet, so a trademark makes sense in
           | this case.
           | 
           | Of course Wordle is just Lingo but online. And Lingo is just
           | televised Mastermind with letters instead of colours.
           | Mastermind is an extension of Bulls and Cows and if you go
           | back further I'm sure you can find another game like it.
           | 
           | There are some very big broadcasting companies that have put
           | a lot of money into the "guess the word" genre and the New
           | York Times probably know that they can't take down every game
           | with similar rules.
           | 
           | The best they can do is find infringement of their trademark
           | and pursue those who infringe upon it, or risk losing the
           | trademark all together. They could also license the
           | trademark, of course, but a blanket cease and desist letter
           | is cheaper than negotiating a contract.
        
           | Wowfunhappy wrote:
           | I can't tell because it has been taken down--was the Wordle
           | archive using the original game's javascript code, or was it
           | a complete rewrite? Wordle is entirely client-side, so it
           | would have been easy to do.
           | 
           | The game concept (probably) isn't copyrightable, but the code
           | certainly is.
        
         | makeitdouble wrote:
         | I think it's fine to have "dog bites man" stories. NYT paying
         | money for a property and aggressively trying to defend is
         | totally expected, but still a story worth conveying.
        
           | cush wrote:
           | A small indie dev got $1M+ for the name "Wordle" and NYT
           | wants to own the brand. It's not "dog bites man"... it's a
           | complete non-story.
        
       | topynate wrote:
       | Does anyone know of a wordle that's in sync with the NYT's list
       | of answers but uses the original dictionary? The NYT site doesn't
       | work for me with uBO turned on (actually it barely works with it
       | turned off).
       | 
       | (Edit: I think I answered my own question:
       | https://www.wordel.app. Author at
       | https://twitter.com/m_yxnk/status/1498171177763803140)
        
       | jstx1 wrote:
       | Enjoy while it lasts -
       | https://www.devangthakkar.com/wordle_archive/
       | 
       | There's a part of me that wants to spin up a new clone of this on
       | a regular basis purely out of spite.
        
         | cush wrote:
         | Anyone can create a clone as long as it's not called Wordle.
        
           | Aeolun wrote:
           | How does that work if all these things already existed before
           | the acquisition?
           | 
           | Clearly nobody cared about protecting the name before.
           | 
           | The whole reason Wordle is so popular is because all the
           | stuff around it.
        
             | [deleted]
        
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       (page generated 2022-03-13 23:00 UTC)