[HN Gopher] Inside Putin's Circle
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Inside Putin's Circle
Author : mayiplease
Score : 109 points
Date : 2022-03-11 21:01 UTC (1 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.ft.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.ft.com)
| te_chris wrote:
| Excellent and thorough piece of writing
| user249 wrote:
| zaptrem wrote:
| Building and exporting weapons is illegal (without lots of
| government approval). Attacking computer systems of other
| countries is illegal (even if they're Russia). Russians already
| have all the tools they need to bypass censorship.
|
| Do you have any ideas?
| zozbot234 wrote:
| Two of the biggest plausible leverage points for intervention
| are (1) supporting free press directed towards Russia and
| Belarus, and enabling ordinary people to stay informed even
| given the Russian and Belarusian governments' predictable
| attempts at censorship. There's a long history of providing
| this sort of aid to North Koreans, and the situation in those
| countries may well turn out to be rather similar. (2)
| fostering economic development and a favorable political
| climate in Russia's and Belarus' closest competitor
| countries. Not enough attention is being paid to this,
| luckily enough these are mostly countries where real
| improvement may be feasible even with comparatively modest
| means. It is absolutely possible to work with high
| effectiveness against the plausible aims of this special
| operation, even as direct military action is set aside being
| irrelevant to average HNers.
| int_19h wrote:
| Not OP, but Russians don't necessarily have easy access to
| those tools, or won't have it going forward. Running Tor
| nodes or organizing to provide VPN access is something that
| all of us can do.
| 01100011 wrote:
| HN is a tech news aggregator website. Some of us are more
| active in the appropriate forums. Do you leave comments on
| cooking websites suggesting they need to take action?
| user249 wrote:
| People who cook could help in their own way. Hacker News is
| has people who could tell you about how to run a botnet hack,
| mount an effective DDOS or the appropriate type of crypto to
| donate and how to get it.
|
| Nevermind, though. I'm just feeling helpless and want to do
| something. I need to think a little deeper about it.
| jdrc wrote:
| Tbh there is too much non-tech news
| hvs wrote:
| Hacker News isn't an activist group, it's a tech website.
| Individuals on this site may or may not be "doing" something
| about Ukraine but there is no reason to associate this with HN
| being "good" or "bad".
|
| I've seen this sentiment in other places as well. Everything
| doesn't have to be coopted into activism for the current cause.
| memonkey wrote:
| Did you expect HN to have that same drive for countries like
| Somalia, Afghanistan, Syria and Palestine?
| jdrc wrote:
| No because the western economy is insulated from those
| tunesmith wrote:
| I'm not as surprised, given the kind of discussion we've seen
| the last few years. Hacker News main audience isn't true
| hackers. A large proportion of its readers are techno-
| libertarian startup/venture corporatists, many with an
| authoritarian bent.
| hereforphone wrote:
| I'm thankful that HN is (kind of) remaining an island of
| politics-light STEM discussion, differentiating itself from the
| angsty college protestor vibe of places like Reddit. The
| response is muted because 1) increased maturity, and 2)
| moderation.
| hanselot wrote:
| DamnYuppie wrote:
| Business, despite all its press and media to the contrary,
| isn't war. People are not dying and suffering and you don't
| really face any repercussions from your actions. War is a
| totally different thing so asking people to "move fast and
| break things" doesn't really make sense in that context
| especially when there are actual physical repercussions.
|
| Also why should the people on this site really care? Honestly I
| get it is not great but in the grand scheme of things I don't
| care. I am tired of war, I have watched my friends and family
| members server in wars for this country since the early 90's. I
| don't recall Ukraine sending f*ck all for them. As such I just
| don't have it in me to give a sh*t at this point in time.
| beebmam wrote:
| >Also why should the people on this site really care?
|
| Would you care if gangsters showed up at your house and told
| you that everything you owned now belongs to his gang? Would
| you care if that happened to your neighbor?
|
| If you think this will never happen to you, think again. This
| world is a brutal place filled with people that would take
| from you every single thing you hold dear without a blink of
| an eye.
| trhway wrote:
| > I don't recall Ukraine sending f*ck all for them.
|
| so, you're holding against Ukraine that they were peaceful
| and didn't participated in other countries destructions all
| this time?
| geoka9 wrote:
| > Also why should the people on this site really care?
|
| This war is the closest we've been to a nuclear war since the
| Caribbean Crisis in 1962. Especially if Russia wins.
| worik wrote:
| We will be much closer if Russia cannot win
| jdrc wrote:
| That severely underestimates the consequences of this war in
| business
| altdataseller wrote:
| OK, give us some suggestions. And tell us what you are doing
| too.
| kenjackson wrote:
| In many cases asking forgiveness is easier. In this case, I'm
| not so sure.
| thesausageking wrote:
| What should we do? What have you done?
| IncRnd wrote:
| Why are you frustrated? Have you mentioned here what you are
| doing to help Ukraine? If you haven't done things or have
| helped but not mentioned that here, why should others mention
| what they may be doing?
| SirYandi wrote:
| I know this is a selfish perspective but the Ukraine/Russia
| news cycle has been hitting my mental health pretty hard. Its
| nice to come here and see the usual interesting techy stuff and
| get a break from the horror.
|
| Not that I disagree with your point. This is a place of
| intelligent discussion which could perhaps benefit Ukrainians
| better.
| galaxyLogic wrote:
| Yes HN is supposed to be about intellectually interesting
| ideas. And the fight against war and fascism needs those
| because otherwise we are in deep sh*t. So why not combine the
| two?
|
| The situation with Russia is much about information. HN is
| about information and IT, no? HN could be the primary forum
| to discuss ways to counter MIS-information.
|
| There seems to be a deep problem in Russia, its citizens are
| mostly duped by misinformation pushed by their government.
| What kind of intelligent solutions exist or could be
| developed to counter that?
| hanselot wrote:
| hurflmurfl wrote:
| Just this once, I want to contribute a "view from the
| inside" on how things work in Russia [in my opinion].
|
| Sure, some people are hoodwinked by the propaganda.
| However, a weird misunderstanding is that "if they new what
| the Truth was, they would surely relent".
|
| From what I've gathered growing up in Russia, that's not
| quite the case. I don't know why, but a lot of people here
| have a very apathetic view on politics. In that even if
| they knew all the "real truth", they wouldn't go into
| "fight mode", but would instead go into "man, same shit as
| usual, our life's about to get harder" mode.
|
| I've just chatted with some friends who don't support the
| war effort in any way and are just as dismayed as your
| average European Joe (Giuseppe??) (and they have relatives
| in Ukraine too). What struck me really hard is that once
| again I had a glimpse of this weird mentality, whereby the
| person laments being in bad circumstances and start doing a
| lot of planning (and hoping) on how to deal with the coming
| misfortunes. Taking control of the change and nipping the
| said misfortune in the bud is just plain out of sight!
|
| With this in mind, the problem that needs to be solved, in
| my opinion, is the "victim mentality" in the population,
| rather than the "misinformation", since "solving"
| misinformation would seem to push people into the usual
| victim loop.
|
| Just my 2 cents, and I'm no one and my opinion is based
| solely on more than a decade of life in Russia.
| shoo wrote:
| I reckon the population of hacker news has drifted tremendously
| over the last decade. More content about the general grind of
| corporate tech industry, less focus on entrepreneurship. Many
| people in the tech industry who read and comment on HN are
| focused on exploiting the status quo and enjoying salaries
| offered by roles in large corporations
|
| Perhaps one consequence of this drift is that people with more
| radical activist leanings, who are more likely to actually do
| something, are going to be more likely to hang out and discuss
| somewhere else rather than here
|
| (i am not pointing any fingers, i haven't engaged in any kind
| of activism for years and grind away at the IT day job in
| exchange for salary.)
|
| edit: the above argument lazily conflates people interested in
| tech industry entrepreneurship with people interested in
| activism. that doesn't make much sense, both groups will have
| quite different goals and often be in conflict. but i think
| there is definitely a drift where much of the people following
| tech industry news here on HN will be increasingly mainstream &
| functionally conservative.
| jdrc wrote:
| Where else?
| 2-718-281-828 wrote:
| can somebody tell me why pretty much any (even random)
| configuration sounds kind of good?
| edhowzerblack wrote:
| CapsAdmin wrote:
| kinda funny how it sort of reads:
|
| Inside Putin's circle -- the real Russian elite. An intelligent
| take on global lifestyle, arts and culture
|
| - Insightful reads
|
| - Interviews & reviews
|
| - The FT Crossword
|
| - Travel, houses, entertainment & style
| galaxyLogic wrote:
| And all behind paywall, as if they didn't want you to see
| what they are writing.
|
| In time of crisis like this you should expect FT to do at
| least a token contribution to spread true information. Other
| commercial news outlets like say New York Times let the
| casual reader read a few articles for free, but not FT it
| seems.
| andrewflnr wrote:
| Which is why someone helpfully posted an archive link.
| cbg0 wrote:
| https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ft.com%2Fcontent%2...
| mekkkkkk wrote:
| I read an incredibly thorough book about Putin a year or so ago,
| and what stuck with me is how political his career in the KGB
| was. In those final years of the USSR, everything was in
| shambles, and any position of power became so through-and-through
| political. That makes his rise so interesting and frightening. He
| has been forged in a dark web of covert slush funds, power
| projection and kompramat. He was obviously very good at that
| game, and it continues today.
|
| EDIT: The book was "Putin's People" by Catherine Belton
| stjohnswarts wrote:
| Seems to me like he has lost that and becoming just an angry
| old man playing with people's lives because he can.
| [deleted]
| agumonkey wrote:
| there's also long interviews from 2017~ on PBS Frontline IIRC,
| a series called "Putin files"
|
| Julia Ioffe, Masha Gessen
|
| It's partial but has a lot of detail
|
| On the other side there are the Russian friendly views such as
| Mearsheimer or even Stone.
|
| It's difficult to weigh what is true (even though I'm biased
| anti aggressor in this case)
| JumpCrisscross wrote:
| "I believe, however, that Putin and the _siloviki_ (though not
| many in the wider elites) welcome this isolation [from the west].
| They are becoming impressed with the Chinese model: a
| tremendously dynamic economy, a disciplined society and a growing
| military superpower ruled over with iron control by a hereditary
| elite that combines huge wealth with deep patriotism, promoting
| the idea of China as a separate and superior civilisation. "
|
| Money quote.
| hcarvalhoalves wrote:
| The idea of a centralised planned state fell with the USSR, and
| it was widely argued that it fell _because_ of central
| planning. China is becoming a counter-example for the people
| who have always been fond of the idea of having a state ruled
| by an "elite", with the perception that democracy is fragile
| and doesn't work for long-term (more than a 4/5 years mandate)
| planning.
| AnimalMuppet wrote:
| But Putin and Co don't seem to have the tools to create a
| dynamic economy or a disciplined society. They may admire
| China; they can't follow the pattern.
| yborg wrote:
| The "Chinese model" is as old as civilization and has been
| implemented and collapsed many times in China itself. If Putin
| establishes a new czarist dynasty in Russia, it will end up
| just like the last one.
| mmaunder wrote:
| I've been a paid subscriber of FT for years. It's horrifically
| expensive and worth every penny.
| tatrajim wrote:
| I was a subscriber for ten years, but gave up on them over
| mediocre coverage of important issues in the US and East Asia,
| about which I had some knowledge. Relying on their reporting
| risked costing me money in my investment decisions.
| notyourwork wrote:
| I had to check pricing after reading your comment. $375/year!
| That sounds crazy.
| ghaff wrote:
| New York Times is around $200. The Economist is something
| north of $100. So the FT is on the high side but hardly out
| of the ballpark.
| jfk13 wrote:
| Does a dollar a day sound more affordable? Just read the news
| over a cup of home-brewed coffee instead of getting a take-
| out, and you should easily break even. :)
| dangrossman wrote:
| If I'm going out to get my avocado toast anyway, it only
| makes sense to get the coffee with it since I'm right
| there. Maybe they should let me round up my change to get
| the day's FT news with my coffee at Starbucks instead.
| notyourwork wrote:
| For me, no it doesn't.
| melony wrote:
| That's cheap compared to the Bloomberg terminal. High quality
| news is not free (news is not necessarily the same as
| journalism).
| bogomipz wrote:
| A related Op/Ed piece from yesterday regarding his inner circle
| and his isolation over the last couple of years:
|
| "How Vladimir Putin Lost Interest in the Present":
| https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/10/opinion/putin-russia-ukra...
| Animats wrote:
| That's a very useful and important article. So that's who Putin
| talks to. A very small group who share his worldview: It is the
| manifest destiny of Mother Russia to have an empire in Eastern
| Europe.
|
| A key point that has emerged from a number of sources is that
| Putin's crowd has no plan B. This isn't considered by Russia's
| leadership to be just a military adventure - if it works, great,
| if it doesn't work, pull back and try something else. It's a
| must-win operation.
|
| Historically, this sort of thing ends only when the leader is
| killed.
| worik wrote:
| > Historically, this sort of thing ends only when the leader is
| killed.
|
| Or Russia wins
| stjohnswarts wrote:
| that's not going to happen. When they try to take a NATO
| country it's over for them. Possibly over for all of us.
| mayiplease wrote:
| https://archive.ph/RXgCG
| doe88 wrote:
| Another interesting opinion piece in NYT on this subject
| https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/10/opinion/putin-russia-ukra...
| ordu wrote:
| _> These men are known in Russia as the "siloviki" -- "men of
| force", or perhaps even, in the Irish phrase, "hard men"._
|
| Just to clarify. The word "siloviki" made from "silovye
| struktury", which may be translated literally as "structures of
| force", or less literally but preserving some meaning "armed
| organizations" (maybe "armed forces", but I think that in English
| "armed forces" doesn't include the likes of police and security
| guards). It refers to police, military or any other organization
| with a dress code that requires a gun.
| lordnacho wrote:
| > other organization with a dress code that requires a gun
|
| Sounds a lot like organized crime, is it supposed to have that
| undertone?
| skrtskrt wrote:
| or mercenaries/"private security"
| xxs wrote:
| >is it supposed to have that undertone?
|
| nope. the 2nd word means "structures" and it implies part of
| the state.
| hunterb123 wrote:
| > other organization with a dress code that requires a gun
|
| No, _that_ sounds like any armed _forces_ , police _force_ ,
| the secret service, etc.
| ordu wrote:
| Policemen wear guns, and it doesn't sound like an organized
| crime.
|
| The root of the word "siloviki" is "sila", which means
| "force". And it is about using force in order to perform
| their job. Like policemen do. Or security guards. Or
| soldiers.
|
| And it is not used to refer to crime activities. They also
| use force, but they are not "siloviki".
| sgt101 wrote:
| In some places, in theory, the police use consent of the
| overwhelming majority to do their job.
| cjmcqueen wrote:
| Force or power was how I see the translation. These are
| people using their force or power to their own agenda. It's
| a useful name IMHO
| IncRnd wrote:
| > Sounds a lot like organized crime, is it supposed to have
| that undertone?
|
| As does "Department of Homeland Security". That was the first
| federal agency named that way, and prior to that people would
| have thought that sort of naming to be associated with the
| Stassi or a totalitarian regime. I suppose it is commonplace
| now.
| fragmede wrote:
| Unconscious bias at work. Russians aren't mostly mobsters
| wearing Adidas track suits, despite what you see on TV and in
| movies.
| thanatos519 wrote:
| "other organization with a dress code that requires a gun" =
| mafia.
| watwut wrote:
| Not all mafia have dress code. Some do, but it is not norm or
| anything.
| benatkin wrote:
| A dress code could require wearing a gun (i. e. wearing
| both a gun and a holster - when someone puts a vest on you
| say they're wearing a vest even if the vest only touches
| the shirt - ditto shoes and long socks) and nothing else
| and it would still be a dress code. I would even say that a
| policy that you can wear anything is a dress code in the
| same way the unlicense is a license.
|
| I think that _undercover_ or _plainclothes_ in most cases
| has enough rules that it constitutes a dress code.
| twelve40 wrote:
| yes, definitely not "hard men", more like what you described,
| except various intelligence agencies who don't always wear a
| gun, are also included.
| ordu wrote:
| Well, FSB is an intelligence agency, and they wear guns or at
| least have a license to wear gun.
|
| Though I cannot argue. I rely on my intuitive knowledge of
| Russian which is hard to use as a rational argument. This
| knowledge tells me that "silovye struktury"/"structures of
| force" are organizations that use force to solve problems.
| And I think that all of them wear guns. But I may be wrong
| with that last statement, and moreover language is changing,
| so the generally accepted meaning of the word can differ from
| what I had learnt in my childhood.
| [deleted]
| Koshkin wrote:
| > _FSB is an intelligence agency_
|
| It is a security agency, a.k.a. the "secret police." (It
| does, of course, spy on the populace.)
| stjohnswarts wrote:
| Basically the Stasi of Russia, no?
| qiskit wrote:
| We get what you are trying to say, but people carry guns,
| they don't wear guns.
| adamc wrote:
| Right, in English "wear" generally means something you can
| "put on" and you can't "put a gun on" either.
|
| Although you can put on a holster. ;-)
| stjohnswarts wrote:
| Pedantry that isn't needed. Offering such things is
| unneeded unless someone is asking for better wording.
| SkinTaco wrote:
| What were you hoping the readers of your comment would gain
| from your comment?
|
| Apologies if this comes off abrasively. This is a genuine
| question that I'm curious about the answer to. I can't
| think of a better way to phrase it.
| qiskit wrote:
| Edification. Nobody says "wear a gun". It doesn't sound
| right. Was assuming the commenter was a non-native
| english speaker and was helping him out.
| js2 wrote:
| I'm a native U.S. English speaker and I didn't think
| twice about "wear a gun". People absolutely say that.
| It's not even pedantically incorrect:
|
| 2 (b) to carry on the person; wear a sword
|
| https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/wear
|
| https://www.google.com/search?q=%22Wearing+a+gun%22&tbm=b
| ks
| benatkin wrote:
| I'm a native english speaker and I think you're mistaken.
| Both are correct. "Wear a gun" is less common but carries
| an important distinction.
|
| I like this usage right here:
|
| > A gun holster is an accessory which is designed to
| allow someone to wear a gun on his or her body.
|
| https://www.wise-geek.com/what-is-a-gun-holster.htm
| ithkuil wrote:
| Learning a nuance of the English language that non-native
| speakers may lack (and be curious to learn)?
| huhtenberg wrote:
| "siloviki" is literally a "men of power" ("sila" in Russian is
| "power" in English) => these include the FSB (an FBI
| equivalent, or the ex-KGB in practice) and MVD (the police).
| That's it.
| throwawaymanbot wrote:
| The Irish term "hard man" is more of a meaning about a persons
| spirit/ attitude to certain things. It does mean someone you
| don't want to mess with or in fact have any sort of dealings
| with. (unless you can equivalently "nullify" their attitude and
| there's only one thing usually that can nullify a "hard man"...
| and this the cycle begins.
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