[HN Gopher] Linux Developer Laptops: Dell's Precision 5500 serie...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Linux Developer Laptops: Dell's Precision 5500 series reigns
       supreme (2019)
        
       Author : skadamat
       Score  : 111 points
       Date   : 2022-03-11 17:53 UTC (5 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (wesmckinney.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (wesmckinney.com)
        
       | switchbak wrote:
       | This is from 2019, does not appear useful at all.
        
         | leephillips wrote:
         | Shallow dismissal. Don't assume everyone lives in the same year
         | as you.
        
           | francislavoie wrote:
           | Huh? Are others time travellers?
        
             | adolph wrote:
             | Technologically, it can be cheaper to live a couple years
             | back. Look at all these first gen iPhone SE's for about
             | $100.
             | 
             | https://buy.gazelle.com/collections/iphone-se
        
               | leephillips wrote:
               | That's what I do with everything possible. Tech becomes
               | quite cheap, and if something breaks (which it does less
               | often than with new stuff), there is no getting upset
               | when the company refuses to honor the warranty, because
               | there is no warranty. Just buy another one.
        
             | cyberpunk wrote:
             | Absolutely! For instance, Jacob Rees-Mogg lives in roughly
             | 1840 CE.
        
         | version_five wrote:
         | Have you seen any major changes between now and then? I looked
         | for a linux developer laptop last year and ended up with a
         | lenovo P1 after a previous bad experience (with power
         | management) on an XPS13 (which I used while traveling - I don't
         | travel now).
         | 
         | I didn't see any other alternatives last year vs what he's
         | discussing. I would love to hear if there are new competitive
         | linux-friendly laptops out there now
        
           | StopDarkPattern wrote:
           | Because everyone loves CCP sponsored back doors in their
           | hardware. I am a solid pass on lenovo for life.
        
             | version_five wrote:
             | I don't think this is remotely credible. Without some
             | evidence it's just scare mongering (although I find it hard
             | to take anyone who automatically jumps to saying CCP when
             | talking about China seriously)
             | 
             | Anyway, as someone without even the remotest business or
             | personal connections to China, if someone is spying on me I
             | hope it's them, rather than someone who can actually impact
             | my life
        
               | perihelions wrote:
               | I think GP was referring to SuperFish,
               | 
               | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superfish
               | 
               | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9072424 ( _" Lenovo
               | Caught Installing Adware on New Computers"_)
               | 
               | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9074110 ( _"
               | Extracting the SuperFish certificate"_)
               | 
               | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9524536 ( _" Class
               | action lawsuit filed against Lenovo over Superfish"_)
               | 
               | etc.
        
               | version_five wrote:
               | This seems to be a windows spyware, the OP refers
               | specifically to hardware, and this discussion is about
               | linux so I don't think he was referring to Superfish.
               | 
               | Incidentally, the OP is troll account with -3 Karma so I
               | think he was just trolling anyway, I didn't notice that
               | when I first replied.
        
           | flylikeabanana wrote:
           | Well, the Framework did come out since then. That's no small
           | news in the linux laptop world
        
             | 2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote:
             | The article states they want discrete graphics. Framework
             | don't yet have this capability.
        
             | cyberpunk wrote:
             | Anecdotal, a colleague of mine absolutely hated his to the
             | point where he didn't even sell it, it just ended up in a
             | drawer until he's calmed down enough to sort it out for
             | sale >_<
        
               | belval wrote:
               | No offense to your colleague, but if you get angry
               | against a piece of tech to a point where you can't even
               | stand to sell it, I think you have more issues than a bad
               | laptop...
        
         | agallant wrote:
         | Laptops from the same series are still offered, and (for good
         | or ill) still pretty similar to 2019 - https://www.dell.com/en-
         | us/work/shop/workstations-isv-certif...
         | 
         | I have a 2020 model, and would concur with this post - good
         | screen, build, thermals, lots of ram, no having to fight with
         | drivers. Even firmware updates "just work" (apply as snaps).
         | 
         | I did find this review more helpful when making the purchase
         | decision - https://www.engineering.com/story/dell-
         | precision-5550-review...
        
         | qchris wrote:
         | I largely agree--the post definitely seems to show its age, and
         | explicitly doesn't really cover any laptops besides the Dell
         | Precision 5540 vs. the Thinkpad P1. Not the author's fault--
         | this is a great reason why post's dates are useful, but I think
         | that any current review of the Linux development laptop
         | landscape has to include options like the Framework or System76
         | offerings and exclude models like the x230 (no shade at the
         | x230; I ran it as a Linux dev machine for several years, but
         | it's now significantly handicapped for modern software
         | development).
        
         | yjftsjthsd-h wrote:
         | If I read dmidecode correctly, I'm writing this on a laptop
         | from 2013, which remains not only fully functional but which
         | has high enough specs that I don't even see it _struggling_ for
         | quite some time. When I someday get another laptop, it 's
         | likely to be from eBay, and I would very much like to know what
         | the best laptops were 3-5 years ago. Being from 2019 is
         | _important_ context, but it 's not disqualifying.
        
           | vladvasiliu wrote:
           | I used to be the same, rocking a late 2013 MacBook Pro. I
           | then bought a Radeon 5000 series and put it in and old PC I
           | had lying around (Xeon E5-2667 v2, Q3'13 according to
           | ark.intel.com).
           | 
           | I was amazed at how well they kept up, and even how they were
           | faster than my 2018-2019 work laptop (an 8th gen
           | i5u-something) when comparing Rust build times.
           | 
           | Then I got a new one with a Zen 3 (5650u) in December. Man,
           | it feels sooo smooth and snappy when compared to the older
           | computers. And I'm running Linux/i3, so nothing that requires
           | fancy graphics or anything. What's shocking, is that the
           | other computers never felt slow, laggy or struggling.
           | 
           | However, this laptop is an absolute steaming PoS on multiple
           | other aspects (chief amongst which a broken BIOS and absurdly
           | bad screen), so I would absolutely not recommend it.
        
             | yjftsjthsd-h wrote:
             | > Then I got a new one with a Zen 3 (5650u) in December.
             | Man, it feels sooo smooth and snappy when compared to the
             | older computers.
             | 
             | > However, this laptop is an absolute steaming PoS on
             | multiple other aspects (chief amongst which a broken BIOS
             | and absurdly bad screen), so I would absolutely not
             | recommend it.
             | 
             | I think you meant to argue that new hardware can be good,
             | but that's really not the conclusion I walked away with.
        
               | vladvasiliu wrote:
               | My point was that there have been noticeable improvements
               | in computing power. I wouldn't recommend this particular
               | model, but it's likely that an equivalent ThinkPad would
               | be an all round much better experience and have the same
               | performance, or maybe even better.
               | 
               | This particular new laptop is a "business" series, so it
               | tries to look fancy, but it's just cheap crap sold at a
               | high markup. I have older models at work, and they have
               | all failed in various ways. They're barely moved outside
               | the office, too, so it's not like I beat on them all day
               | every day. It's a line I would never recommend to anyone
               | under any circumstance, be it new or old. But it _is_
               | fast.
               | 
               | My general opinion, though, is that instead of buying
               | cheap models often, it's usually much better to buy
               | nicer, "higher-end" models less often, at least as far as
               | perception is concerned, especially if you don't have
               | anything (new) to compare it to. This can afford better
               | "peripherals", such as a screen, keyboard, silence, etc.,
               | which cheaper models tend to never have.
        
         | LargoLasskhyfv wrote:
         | It will probably more useful, because with the passed time
         | since introduction, the drivers had a chance to mature. In
         | opposition to the newest gadget, which lacks support of
         | feautures to varying degrees.
        
       | sireat wrote:
       | My maximum spec Lenovo P1 Gen 1 that I have been using for the
       | last 3 years has been really underwhelming. It feels just very
       | average. No premium feel whatsoever. XPS13 by comparison feels a
       | bit more premium.
       | 
       | Most damning, out of the two M2 SSD drives in Lenovo P1, the main
       | one was some no name Chinese make that failed without a warning
       | after a year. For a premium model that is just unacceptable.
       | Secondary drive is a WD that is still alive.
       | 
       | By comparision 10 year old Dell Precision M6700 and M4700 are
       | built like tanks have ports and upgradability to the max. Same
       | goes for Lenovo T440p that I bought for 200 Euros for my kid's
       | schoolwork. Same goes for older HP ProBooks. Another kid has a
       | Macbook Air M1 and that is just alright.
       | 
       | The laptops from early 2010s just feel sturdier and better built.
       | 
       | The question is which will be the well built professional Alder
       | Lake laptop to get? Will it be Lenovo, Dell, HP, Asus maybe MSI
       | or maybe even Framework?
       | 
       | Intel 12th gen offers some impressive gains over AMD and 11th gen
       | Intel so it makes sense to wait.
        
       | thecrumb wrote:
       | I'm tired of the 'thinner is better' progress of laptops. As a
       | developer I _want_ ports, I want more cooling so the fans don 't
       | run all the time. I want a laptop I can actually place on my lap
       | without getting burned LOL. I love my old T420. Currently have
       | P15 from work. Horrible layout because they crammed in a numpad
       | so now the trackpad is offset to the left. If I had to buy a
       | laptop myself I'd lean either to System76 or the Framework
       | laptop.
        
         | hbn wrote:
         | Well thankfully, Apple seems to have gone in that direction
         | with the last MBP releases. And with them being the
         | trendsetters they are, I wouldn't be surprised if other OEMs
         | saw that as a green light to start putting out thicker laptops
         | with decent ports again.
        
         | aidenn0 wrote:
         | Perhaps look at HP zBooks; I have one that is almost 6 years
         | old and still kicking; plenty of ports definitely not thin.
         | 
         | I just looked at the current offering and the only negative
         | compared to mine is that it seems to no longer have any USB-A
         | ports on the left; just on the Left.
         | 
         | Now they can come with Ubuntu pre-installed; at the time I had
         | to install it myself.
         | 
         | Only downside is the price; they start around $2k; the one I
         | purchased was $3k, and I justified it by hoping it would last
         | me a while. Given that this was in 2016, I think I made out
         | alright.
         | 
         | Only thing I would change is I'd like a 1440p display. At 15" I
         | think a 4k is wated, but 1080p is a bit confining.
         | 
         | Also, if you do get one, do spend the extra $60 for the better
         | IPS screen; all the reviews I checked said the base screen is
         | garbage.
        
       | synergy20 wrote:
       | I was assigned a Macbook Pro at work and I asked for a non-Mac
       | laptop, reason being I'm a Linux developer and Macbook did not
       | work well for me(keyboard,etc).
       | 
       | I ended up with a XPS 15 that has 64GB DDR and 2TB PCIe NVMe SSD
       | around $2750, comparing to 32GB+1TB of MacBook Pro it is about
       | $800 less expensive.
       | 
       | I did not realize Precision 55xx series is even better built than
       | XPS15 otherwise I will probably go that route. Time will tell how
       | this goes(still waiting for XPS15, it's shipped).
       | 
       | Side note: My family had an xps13 and the hinge broke after 3
       | years, after opening it I found it's made with plastic, I was
       | disappointed that XPS did not even use a metal hinge, which is
       | probably just 25 cents more. so yes XPS does not use the best
       | quality parts from my experience. Next time I will try Precision
       | series.
        
         | nly wrote:
         | I'm pretty confident the Precision 55xx series are exactly the
         | same, they just have different chipset features.
        
         | laurent92 wrote:
         | > I did not realize Precision 55xx series is even better built
         | than XPS15
         | 
         | Bought an XPS15 for an intern. I pulled the screen to open, and
         | it remained stuck with the base, because they didn't even tune
         | the hinge. How can someone work with such a device, you can
         | hear the fans and feel the heat through the keyboard: If XPS15
         | is in the top 3 money can buy after System76 and Precision
         | 55xx, then Apple can double the prices and they would still
         | have customers.
        
         | bdlowery wrote:
         | > I was disappointed that XPS did not even use a metal hinge,
         | which is probably just 25 cents more. so yes XPS does not use
         | the best quality parts from my experience.
         | 
         | This is why it's $800 cheaper than a MacBook Pro.
        
         | Lio wrote:
         | Only the XPS 13 from te XPS range is "Linux compatible". The
         | rest are a crapshoot.
         | 
         | I had a little look at the Precision 7760. With Ubuntu there's
         | only 1 version available in the UK and it's a beast with 64GB
         | RAM and 4TB SSD. It cost PS6,091.39[1].
         | 
         | Looking at Apple for a rough equivalent[2] I spec'd a 16" up
         | with 64GB and 4TB and it's PS4,599.00
         | 
         | I'm an XPS 13 Dev Ed owner myself. It's OK for the most part, I
         | don't have many problems with it.
         | 
         | I'm not in the market for a 16"/17" laptop right now but when
         | it's time to replace this it's going to be hard to look past
         | what Apple are offering.
         | 
         | 1. https://www.dell.com/en-uk/work/shop/laptop-
         | computers-2-in-1...
         | 
         | 2. https://www.apple.com/uk/shop/buy-mac/macbook-pro/16-inch-
         | sp...
        
           | secondcoming wrote:
           | Change the RAM and SSD to the minimum and buy upgrades
           | elsewhere.
        
         | secondcoming wrote:
         | I normally hate laptops but I had to buy one due to Covid and
         | went with a Precision 7750. I didn't bother with a dedicated
         | graphics card, and chose the minimum spec RAM and NVMe, but I
         | did opt for the 4K display with WWAN for the 4G modem. I
         | purchased 128GB RAM and a 2TB NVMe elsewhere and just put them
         | in. Final cost was under PS4k
         | 
         | It's actually quite decent. I'm not sure I can upgrade the
         | modem to 5G though.
        
           | synergy20 wrote:
           | That's what I'm going to do: replace DDR and NVMe myself to
           | save a bit.
           | 
           | I am also keen on something between a NUC and mini-tower,
           | that is small enough to carry, powerful enough to build heavy
           | code bases. You do need find a display with keyboard etc to
           | use them, which works for home and office and lab settings
           | well. Or, just use it as a build machine connected to the
           | network, headlessly(no need keyboard,mouse and display)
        
       | alkonaut wrote:
       | What's a good high perf laptop in 2022 that manages high load for
       | hours (with power cable) without being noisy or
       | overheating/throttling
       | 
       | The Dell precisions I have had have been crappy with swelling
       | batteries after a year or so of hard use. The current one has had
       | two battery replacements with touchpad and keyboard replacement,
       | within the warranty period. I just recently swapped the CPU fan.
       | The last precision before that had to get a screen and
       | motherboard replaced.
       | 
       | Anything that has proper cooling and latest gen CPU seems to be
       | plasticky gaming models (Alienware, Legion, ..). No one makes a
       | good developer workstation for 99% stationary use it seems. Yet
       | almost all developers I know use external power, keyboards and
       | screens almost all the time and just occasionally move between
       | e.g home and office. The niche of "movable workstation" seems
       | underserviced despite a huge market, right?
        
         | vwoolf wrote:
         | Did you miss all the M1 MacBook Pro hoopla?
         | https://hn.algolia.com/?q=macbook+pro+14%22
        
       | seqizz wrote:
       | For heaven's sake. Is there a laptop which works OK with docking
       | on Linux? I have an XPS 13 now, used Thinkpad t460p before. Both
       | of them has roughly 1/3 chance I didn't see anything on the
       | screen after docking/undocking.
        
         | nix0n wrote:
         | I've got a 5520 with Ubuntu, and my advice is to use the HDMI
         | port on the side of the laptop instead of running video through
         | the dock.
        
         | tga wrote:
         | I am still running Debian stable on a T460p and all I can tell
         | you is that there is hope.
         | 
         | I used to have major issues with suspend and dock on this
         | machine, with Ubuntu and then Debian. I lost many work mornings
         | to getting the machine to show anything on the screen after
         | docking. I tried various drivers, tweaks, everything --
         | sometimes it would work for a while and then trouble would be
         | back with the next reboot or kernel upgrade.
         | 
         | Then one day I hit the right tweak -- or Debian flipped the
         | right bit -- and at least for the last ~year I've had _zero_
         | problems with it. Dock, undock, suspend, resume, it 's 100%
         | there and I don't even think about it anymore.
         | 
         | I believe it's because I finally managed to turn off the Nvidia
         | card and use the Intel one instead, but I can't be sure. To be
         | honest, I'm afraid to touch the video setup or reinstall Linux
         | because I might land right back in driver hell.
        
       | rr808 wrote:
       | Doing more and more in the browser these days I'm thinking of
       | just getting a Chromebook. If only there was one with a good
       | quality large screen.
        
         | cyberpunk wrote:
         | Connect it to a monitor?
        
       | ranqet wrote:
       | It does seem like in the last several years, the quality of
       | ThinkPads has declined as other business lines like Dell
       | Latitude/Precision and HP EliteBook/ZBook have improved.
        
       | Shadonototra wrote:
       | i find it very hard to suggest an intel/amd laptop nowadays now
       | that M1 macbooks exist..
       | 
       | M1 is a league on its own, everything else is just tech junk at
       | this point
        
         | krzyk wrote:
         | Does it run Linux?
        
           | ComradePhil wrote:
           | First of all, Desktop linux barely works on the hardware it
           | is designed to work on.
           | 
           | Let's say that because of some miracle, Linux becomes usable
           | on M1 macs... and people start buying M1 macs to run Linux,
           | Apple will have incentive to lock the bootloader (which they
           | don't currently do) so that people are forced to run macOS
           | only... because their value does not come from the hardware
           | itself but the "ecosystem" (a.k.a. vendor-lock-in) they have
           | built around it.
        
         | ModernMech wrote:
         | There are still zero Apple laptops with touch/pen displays. M1
         | gives good performance per watt, but at the same time my
         | computer's longevity has been more than enough for probably a
         | decade now; as long as I get a good solid 10 hours on a single
         | charge, that might as well be 20 hours because it'll be hooked
         | up to my home monitors before too long. And yes, M1 performance
         | is very good, but so are a lot of other machines out there, and
         | most laptops today, even the slowest worst ones, are more than
         | sufficient for the everyday computing needs of most people.
         | 
         | So the value of a amd/intel laptop is all the performance you
         | need, all the battery life you need, and also you get extra
         | features you'll never see on a Mac like pen and touch screen,
         | plus compatibility with all of your games, programs, and
         | hardware. That's not tech junk, imo.
        
         | vbezhenar wrote:
         | M1 is overrated. I own MacBook Pro with M1 Max. It's fast, but
         | it's not something that helps in day to day use. And ARM
         | compatibility issues not really helping. Battery is not that
         | amazing either. I spent 30 minutes in discord and battery was
         | at 91%, 5 hours is not something unique. It's good, fast and
         | expensive laptop. But not something that I could call mind
         | breaking.
        
           | brimble wrote:
           | Discord in particular is a horrible battery hog--we used it a
           | lot over the worst stretches of the pandemic in my social
           | group, and it was _constantly_ killing laptop batteries that
           | could reasonably last 8+ hours, in like 3 hours flat. I 've
           | always had to avoid Electron (and leaving enormous web-apps
           | open all the time, like Gmail) and use Safari to achieve (or
           | sometimes exceed--they're relatively conservative about it)
           | Apple's battery life claims. Unfortunately, a handful of
           | common programs seem to be the equivalent of having your
           | computer to find more digits of Pi _constantly_ , on _all
           | cores_ , while what they're actually doing justifies _maybe_
           | 10% of their actual power use. Mostly, it 's webshit doing
           | it.
        
           | AitchEmArsey wrote:
           | My regular M1 MBP is comfortably managing 18 hours of normal
           | use (non-video browser and terminal) or 12ish hours of more
           | intensive use (video and Slack). Sounds like putting the M1
           | Max in a laptop form factor is a bit of a waste, as I've
           | never even strained the base level processor.
        
           | diegorbaquero wrote:
           | Try the Discord PTB which is native to M1.
           | https://discord.com/api/download/ptb?platform=osx
        
           | Ologn wrote:
           | > And ARM compatibility issues not really helping
           | 
           | There were two things I wanted to try on my MBP w/ M1 -
           | compiling an Android app that has some C code, and also to
           | run Fidelity's Active Trader Pro program (not that I would
           | use it that actively). I also installed the Rosetta stuff it
           | prompted for.
           | 
           | The Active Trader Pro program would not run.
           | 
           | In Android Studio, the production version can not compile
           | with CMake as it can on Intel-based Macs yet (
           | https://github.com/android/ndk/issues/1299 ). They say there
           | is stuff in the beta/alpha/canary branches where it is
           | working, but I am not in a rush and will wait for that to
           | make its way into production.
           | 
           | > It's good, fast
           | 
           | Yes, I did see the speed, especially with a normal
           | Kotlin/Java Android Studio compile, on 16GB RAM.
        
           | cyberpunk wrote:
           | Hmm, I have the air with m1, and my battery life is insane.
           | Like 20 hours, even with a parallels vm running some of the
           | time.
           | 
           | I do however have no idea what discord is. Isn't it some
           | kinda forum?
           | 
           | Also using safari when on battery doubles your life, fwiw.
        
             | vbezhenar wrote:
             | Discord is like Slack, with video calls. I'm using Safari.
        
               | cyberpunk wrote:
               | Slack has video calls... they're Shite though ;)
        
             | brimble wrote:
             | > I do however have no idea what discord is. Isn't it some
             | kinda forum?
             | 
             | Budding Slack competitor that started with a focus on
             | gaming. If you couldn't guess from the context of its
             | eating battery like crazy, it's a webtech "application".
        
           | davidatbu wrote:
        
         | qumpis wrote:
         | I'm very curious about counterpoint to this from a causal unix
         | user perspective
        
           | ComradePhil wrote:
           | The counter-point is it may be "unix" but it is not Linux and
           | if you think it is, it will bite you in ways you don't expect
           | (why does the sed command that works completely fine on Linux
           | fails weirdly... oh because even though it is mostly the same
           | sed except it is not really... it's the BSD sed from whenever
           | Apple forked it).
           | 
           | The "package manager" brew is it's own thing because it is
           | not first party, will never be and will conflict with your OS
           | in unexpected ways when you least expect it.
           | 
           | And then, it's not even amd64. So, if you use docker for
           | example, you have to remember to cross build for linux/amd64
           | if you are deploying to an amd64 server, which is much more
           | likely than you deploying to arm64... and then, you have to
           | run an emulated VM in the background for this purpose.
           | 
           | Do you rely on specific software/libraries? Well, you may
           | read that it is supported now for M1, but you don't really
           | know what bits aren't supported... and you may find that the
           | hard way.
        
           | Underphil wrote:
           | The counterpoint would be that huge swathes of the public
           | (myself included) despise using Mac OS for anything more
           | serious than browsing, so that entire line of laptops would
           | be dead to us.
        
       | prototypeasap wrote:
       | Need to have a thorough comparative analysis to claim something
       | reigns supreme. My laptop is Lenovo Carbon X1 7th Gen - with
       | custom Debian 10 install.
       | 
       | I chose it over Dell offerings due to better keyboard and
       | substantially lower weight. I don't really care about operating
       | system that comes pre-installed; As, i always do a fresh
       | 'bloatware free' install of Debian anyways. The only thing that
       | doesn't work is fingerprint reader. I absolutely love this
       | laptop; But wouldn't go as far as to claim it reigns supreme.
       | 
       | For the past two years i have been doing more and more coding on
       | my home workstation that runs Windows (if you can believe it).
       | With WSL2 all the linux apps (including GUI based ones) run
       | smooth like butter; And the fact that i can back-up and switch
       | between different distros seamlessly really makes my life easier.
       | 
       | So, i would even consider running Windows on my laptop for Linux
       | development purposes in the future (sorry if it offends anyone).
       | The only thing that is stopping me, is the fact that my X1 runs
       | much faster under Debian and battery life is substantially
       | better.
        
         | randlet wrote:
         | I've been using a Lenovo Carbon X1 4th Gen with Ubuntu
         | installed for the last 5+ years and love it. My next laptop
         | will almost certainly be another X1 Carbon.
        
       | Bullfight2Cond wrote:
       | 5560 is one of my least favorite laptops ever.
       | 
       | The trackpad is unnecessarily big that my hand routinely clicks
       | it when typing. Also, it has driver issues:
       | 
       | - on windows if you move the trackpad quickly and then click, it
       | resets your cursor position -- I've lost work because of this
       | bug: https://imgur.com/a/ibNObJ8
       | 
       | - on linux (tried in fedora) there's an unresolved issue with the
       | kernel driver where randomly the acceleration of the cursor will
       | drop and the cursor movement will have a large amount of lag:
       | https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/libinput/libinput/-/issues/61...
       | 
       | Physically, out of the box it looks nice but over the course of
       | 2-3 months becomes quite disgusting: it attracts smudges, the
       | speaker grill fill up with dust. It's also heavy.
       | 
       | The plastic housing on the edge of the display is so sharp that
       | when I went to wipe dust off the screen I sliced my finger and
       | started bleeding.
       | 
       | Performance wise, it's okay, but I only get 5 hours in windows
       | (VSCode, Slack, Firefox).
       | 
       | The keyboard is okay, but I prefer the thinkpad keyboards because
       | the delete key isn't offset from a touch power button like the
       | dell.
       | 
       | 3/10 would not buy again
        
         | brirec wrote:
         | > Also, it has driver issues: > - on windows if you move the
         | trackpad quickly and then click, it resets your cursor position
         | -- I've lost work because of this bug:
         | https://imgur.com/a/ibNObJ8
         | 
         | This is actually part of the Windows Precision Touchpad
         | functionality. I think "it's a feature, not a bug." I hate it
         | too, but it's definitely not exclusive to Dell.
        
       | stingraycharles wrote:
       | Missing [2019] in the title.
       | 
       | I'm in the market for buying a laptop this year. What is the
       | currently reigning developer laptop?
        
         | pthread_t wrote:
         | When it's time for me to upgrade I'll go with one of the
         | framework machines. [0] It's fully customizable, with room for
         | future upgrades. I've been looking into a Dell machine for a
         | while, but they just seem to have too many issues.
         | 
         | For what it's worth, I'm currently using an m1 macbook, and the
         | battery life is absolutely incredible.
         | 
         | [0] https://frame.work/
        
           | cjaro wrote:
           | I have an M1 mac for work and I am seriously impressed with
           | the battery life. I prefer my asus laptop that I loaded
           | ubuntu on for my daily driver (gaming, coding, fun), but man,
           | I can leave my work machine unplugged all day while running
           | the work VPN, firefox & chrome, remote desktop, vscode, slack
           | and mattermost, and finish out the day with above 70%
           | battery. I wasn't planning to like this laptop but I do.
        
             | pthread_t wrote:
             | I'm in the same boat. Unfortunately, I have run into odd
             | compatibility issues when trying to compile and run a
             | handful of Rust projects that are generally meant for x86
             | platforms. That issue and macOS prevents me from adopting
             | the m1 as my daily driver.
        
         | TremendousJudge wrote:
         | I think it depends on your needs, really. When I bought a
         | laptop in December of last year, I narrowed my options down to
         | a Dell XPS 15 and a Thinkpad T15 (both with the Intel CPUs,
         | although AMD seemed to perform better on benchmarks, Dell
         | doesn't even ship with them and the Thinkpad with AMD wasn't
         | available in my region). I didn't consider System76 much
         | because I need Windows support, and sadly couldn't go for a
         | framework because they didn't ship to where I needed.
         | 
         | I ended up going for the Thinkpad even though it has a worse
         | screen, because I read many negative things about defects in
         | XPS laptops, the CPU was of a lower tier but apparently more
         | energy efficient (also I learned that laptop CPUs are a mess),
         | the Thinkpad has more varied ports, and it has the trackpoint.
         | 
         | I was pleasantly surprised to learn that many top of the line
         | laptops (not counting Apple of course) now have user
         | upgreadable components -- both of my options had upgradeable
         | hard drives and ram.
         | 
         | Back to my original point, for my workload I didn't need more
         | than 16gb of ram, or a dedicated GPU, or good Linux support
         | (although I heard it's pretty good for Thinkpads at least), so
         | my option made sense to me -- and still it set me back almost 2
         | grand, so not an easy choice. I expect this device to last at
         | least 5 years, which puts the cost into perspective to me.
        
         | pjmlp wrote:
         | ThinkPad graphics workstations with Windows 10 Pro like P80.
        
         | rgrmrts wrote:
         | The Dell Precision 5560 is still a great Linux machine. Most
         | things worked out of the box for me (the one I got has an
         | nvidia card if that bothers you)
         | 
         | Battery life does not beat my 2019 MacBook Pro but it's still
         | pretty good (don't have hard numbers)
         | 
         | Edit: also, nothing so far competes with the MacBook trackpads
         | imo. YMMV
        
           | [deleted]
        
         | criddell wrote:
         | Depends on what you're developing.
        
         | burntsushi wrote:
         | I'm a mostly[1] happy owner of a Framework laptop.
         | 
         | [1] - I have two complaints. One is screen size. I think one
         | more inch would be ideal. I bought the laptop in spite of this.
         | I can live with it. My second complaint is the battery drain
         | when I suspend the laptop. When suspended, the laptop is dead
         | within a day or two. (Yes, I have 'deep' sleep enabled. No, I'm
         | not using hibernation.)
        
         | Theodores wrote:
         | If you are okay with 16Gb RAM the Huawei Matebook Pro will not
         | disappoint. The quality is top notch and the price is true
         | value for money. For me the light weight, 3000*2000 display and
         | how nice the keyboard and touchpad is makes it nice to use.
         | Ubuntu works perfectly.
         | 
         | I also have a small armada of XPS efforts and very nice Lenovo
         | laptops but the Huawei just feels better engineered.
         | 
         | You also get goodies with it, like fancy speakers and other
         | accessories, depending on the promotions available at the time.
         | 
         | Huawei are a tech leader, not a race to the bottom clone. But
         | after the Trump ban on Huawei you would never know.
        
         | linuxlizard wrote:
         | I've been having very good experiences with my Lenovo P15v dual
         | booting Fedora/Windows. Intel graphics aren't speedy but are
         | reliable. Absolutely gorgeous 4k screen. The usual nice
         | Thinkpad keyboard.
        
       | hereforphone wrote:
       | Around 15 years ago I made Linux work well on various laptops.
       | This included X and KDE. More recently I've tried the "great
       | Linux laptops": Thinkpad and Dell. I had so many issues that I
       | had to stop using these laptops altogether.
       | 
       | Some issues I remember off the top of my head are driver support
       | (sometimes bluetooth, sometimes wifi, sometimes other), and
       | video. Getting the video on high dpi displays to look reasonable
       | with Linux on these laptops seemed impossible.
        
       | linuxhansl wrote:
       | I like the Lenovos (not affiliated with them).
       | 
       | Had various of their laptops: T42, T500, T440p, X1 Extreme gen2
       | (dumb name, but nice laptop).
       | 
       | They usually run Linux without any problems, are solidly built
       | (even after being taking over from IBM).
        
       | haunter wrote:
       | Personally I'm waiting for the new ARM ThinkPad X13s. I rarely
       | buy things on day one but that will be one for sure. Not sure
       | which distro will run on it but I like tinkering with it.
        
         | perihelions wrote:
         | Do you know that the ARM one will run linux on day one?
        
           | haunter wrote:
           | Not by Lenovo. Officially it comes with Windows 11
        
         | AitchEmArsey wrote:
         | Same here - I'm ready to move on from my 2015 XPS13, but having
         | recently got an M1 Mac for work I'm now not prepared to
         | compromise on battery life. If a major Linux distro (Ubuntu or
         | Fedora) is shown to work well on the new ThinkPad, I'll be
         | getting one pretty quickly.
        
           | haunter wrote:
           | The performance will be the real question, like it won't be
           | nowhere near the M1 for sure
        
         | pengaru wrote:
         | Why wouldn't you just get an AMD X13? At least you know there's
         | already sorted GPU drivers in mainline, it's no slouch AIUI.
         | 
         | What I read about the ARM ThinkPad is it's basically a
         | smartphone in an X13 chassis... Yay? Seems like a strange Linux
         | hardware support nuisance to be looking forward to.
        
       | ok_dad wrote:
       | Maybe if you're considering the "major laptop manufacturers", but
       | I prefer my System76 laptop any day, since it comes with Linux
       | and they support it from the get-go. Also, they write a lot of
       | nice software that makes the Linux ecosystem better; I love
       | Pop_OS! and how I basically don't have to futz around with
       | getting things to work but have the power of a Debian/Ubuntu
       | variant so I can install other things easily. I don't know off
       | the top of my head any other companies that support Linux like
       | this, but there are a dozen or more out there that I've seen and
       | forgotten over the last few years. I do have to say that a Dell
       | is a good choice for Linux as far as hardware goes, but I prefer
       | now to support those companies that give back to the Linux
       | ecosystem in some way.
       | 
       | I also think it's funny to call something a "developer laptop" as
       | if you can't code on nearly any old piece of junk. If you do
       | something very specialized like graphics or neural net ML
       | perhaps, but then you're probably looking to get a workstation
       | rather than a laptop.
        
         | fullstop wrote:
         | I wish that Pop!_OS installed with some sort of hibernation
         | setup by default.
        
         | augusto-moura wrote:
         | I think the point is that most modern laptops don't offer good
         | linux support (which are without a doubt have the best
         | developer experience, aside from ~debatable~ macOS'es). Either
         | they lack good driver support or need you to hack config
         | files/kernel params. So yeah, I still type for "developer
         | laptops" or "laptops with good linux support" when I'm
         | searching new computers, and no, a basic off-the-shelf Dell
         | Inspiron (or any other "piece of junk") doesn't cut it
        
           | pjmlp wrote:
           | Depends which kind of developer, there is a big world out
           | there beyond UNIX CLI and daemons with Web UI.
        
           | tadfisher wrote:
           | There are basically two requirements I have for Linux
           | hardware: an Intel wireless card, and a non-Nvidia GPU. I
           | haven't really been let down so far by sticking with only
           | those two requirements, aside from some teething pains with
           | Lenovo's AMD ThinkPads.
        
         | 2ion wrote:
         | What happens when such a niche manufacturer's hardware breaks
         | down as a warranty case? I strongly prefer vendors or OEMs who
         | have strong support. I am not terribly impressed by the overall
         | quality of my current laptop by German reseller Schenker/XMG
         | but they, as an alternative to the big enterprise suppliers
         | like Dell or HP or Lenovo have a stepped up support game as
         | well (it reflects in their relatively higher prices vs quality
         | they sell).
         | 
         | This is also the reason why I'm sceptical ordering things like
         | the "Framework Laptop". If it's a hobby expense it's an alright
         | expense and risk, but for productivity, I need assurances, and
         | part of that assurance comes from a track record, which not all
         | niche vendors have (with me).
        
           | ok_dad wrote:
           | > What happens when such a niche manufacturer's hardware
           | breaks down as a warranty case?
           | 
           | My System76 laptop came with a year of warranty I think, and
           | I never used it. I think there were 2 and 3 year extensions
           | available when purchasing, but I never buy the warranty for
           | anything. However, 3 years after I purchased it I emailed
           | support for a software question and got a great response from
           | them and they spent a good amount of back-and-forth (emails)
           | time helping me diagnose the issue and resolving it, even
           | outside of the service window. That's just my experience,
           | YMMV.
        
         | btbuildem wrote:
         | I think ergonomics / general slickness goes a long way for a
         | dev laptop, not just pure horsepower. Form factor, keyboard
         | etc. Everyone has their preferences with these things :)
        
           | ok_dad wrote:
           | I am one of those people that don't care what something looks
           | like, as long as I can plug it into my docking station and
           | occasionally use it stand-alone. However, I can see your
           | ergonomics and "general slickness" point as I've had some
           | work laptops in the past that had the worst keyboard layouts
           | or the touch-pad was placed weirdly or I had to do the Contra
           | cheat code on the keyboard to incant the proper spell to get
           | it to startup properly. I work on a personal laptop that is
           | ~3 years old and I don't think I'll need to replace it ever,
           | since I can replace parts and it's faster than I will ever
           | need for my use cases.
        
         | kitsunesoba wrote:
         | Prior to buying my Thinkpad X1 Nano I considered a System76
         | laptop, but decided against it mainly for a few reasons:
         | 
         | - Many reports of spotty QC in their machines
         | 
         | - Display panel being 16:9 instead of 16:10 or something taller
         | 
         | - Uninspiring design
         | 
         | - Mediocre specs for price
         | 
         | - Barrel power connector instead of USB-PD
        
         | inetknght wrote:
         | If I could replace my System76's keyboard with a layout that I
         | like, then I would have zero complaints.
         | 
         | I <3 System76
        
         | Freak_NL wrote:
         | I like System76, and my two previous work laptops came from
         | them (both served me for over four years each; I only had to
         | replace the last one due to a hard to diagnose RAM issue), but
         | I can't recommend them to anyone outside of the US. By now they
         | really should have gotten into bed with an EU distributor to
         | handle warrantee, customs, and shipping, because it's just too
         | costly and too much of a hassle to deal with System76 with an
         | ocean in between.
         | 
         | I'm using a Dell XPS 13 pre-loaded with Ubuntu now. I had to
         | order it by telephone because the option to configure it with
         | 32GB of RAM and Ubuntu wasn't available on their website (in
         | this respect Dell really sucks with their localized web shop,
         | but at least you can contact them within the EU), but no hassle
         | with customs and shipping, and warrantee isn't limited to the
         | US standard of one year by default, but the EU mandated
         | standard of two years. If it breaks down, I can get a
         | replacement within a week; that's just impossible with overseas
         | commerce.
        
           | GordonS wrote:
           | Wow, thanks for posting this - a System76 is on my shortlist,
           | but it's coming straight off now; I had no idea I'd have to
           | ship it across the Atlantic if there was a problem!!!
        
           | kappattack wrote:
           | Curious - is your XPS13 touch screen or 4k? I called and they
           | insisted the XPS13 only had 32GB RAM options for touch or 4k
           | screens. I don't want either of those things, so im SOL i
           | guess.
        
         | Ologn wrote:
         | I got a System76 Serval WS laptop running Ubuntu 2 1/2 years
         | ago and have been happy with it. I used it a lot pre-Covid when
         | I was traveling more. It also updated well, although I always
         | wait two months post-release before upgrading Ubuntu.
         | 
         | I bought a System76 Thelio desktop running Ubuntu in July, and
         | I am typing on it now. I am very happy with it. One nice thing
         | about it is I know the various parts of the system will have
         | decent drivers for Linux. I did get an Nvidia 12 GB GeForce RTX
         | 3060 graphics card with it - that is one area (Nvidia) where
         | support could potentially be problematic, but I have had no
         | problems thus far. The upgrade to Ubuntu 21.10 went smoothly. I
         | also bought a 27" inch monitor with it, and working from home,
         | it beats my old 19" inch monitor by a long shot, especially if
         | I am doing git merges or something.
         | 
         | The first System76 laptop I bought was in 2014, and I have
         | helped other people buy them, and I feel they have gotten
         | better over time - the machines are better.
         | 
         | I like how much of the system is open, if I want to change
         | something I can just drop down and do it - to the desktop
         | layer, to the userspace level, to the kernel level. People have
         | caveats, and I have run into them, but workplaces have had me
         | run Windows or MacOS, and those systems have caveats as well.
         | The ability to be able to look at the code and change it is
         | something I like.
        
         | gurkendoktor wrote:
         | Regarding your last paragraph, I generally agree, but there is
         | at least one exception: If you need lots of RAM and nothing
         | else, then many consumer laptops won't do the job.
        
           | ok_dad wrote:
           | Oh yea, that is so true. I wish I could get a cheapo
           | processor with like 32GB or 64GB of RAM. The only choices you
           | have are to get a cheap laptop with a minuscule amount of RAM
           | and the exact amount of processing and hard drive space you
           | need, or to buy some $4000 beast with the amount of RAM you
           | need, but too much of everything else.
        
       | mmmpop wrote:
       | I got one of the new 14" Macbook Pros recently and am extremely
       | impressed by the build quality and no the whole no-more-touchbar.
       | I don't feel as productive on it as I do my 3 year old Thinkpad
       | X1 gen7 running Fedora, though. It's like a comfy sofa where as
       | the Macbook is a desk chair.
        
         | dasloop wrote:
         | And you can use multipass in the M1 to generate, for example,
         | ARM64 docker images that you can run in a Graviton CPU. Win Win
         | :)
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | H1Supreme wrote:
       | I'll throw my experience with Linux on Dell's in the ring. I have
       | a 13" Dell Inspiron 7000 (i7 8GB ram). I've had it for 4 years or
       | so. In terms of drivers and overall compatibility with Linux,
       | it's been perfect. I install Xubuntu (have also used Mate), it
       | downloads whatever it needs, and everything works. I can't recall
       | a single instance of something crashing, or WIFI problems, or
       | whatever.
       | 
       | There are two downsides. One, battery life sucks. Relative to a
       | Macbook, it's very bad. But, this isn't a surprise to most
       | people. Second, the touchpad driver is shit. Oh man, does it
       | suck. Palm rejection doesn't work, and I had to enable a setting
       | which disables the trackpad for a few seconds after a key press.
       | Otherwise, it's unusable. That part, is irritating.
       | 
       | Those downsides don't really matter to me, because I'm plugged in
       | and docked the majority of the time. I've considered looking into
       | the touchpad issue more, but it's just not worth my effort atm.
       | Otherwise, it's a great machine!
        
       | vbezhenar wrote:
       | I recently checked and only 3 models of the entire Dell line-up
       | offer Linux OS (1 model is XPS Developer edition).
       | 
       | Basically it seems that Dell abandoned Linux compatibility with
       | new models.
        
         | stagger87 wrote:
         | https://www.dell.com/en-us/work/shop/overview/cp/linuxsystem...
         | 
         | This link shows their Linux lineup. Seems they cover all 3
         | laptop sizes 13/15/17 both in an ultra book form factor and a
         | bulkier port rich model. What more were you hoping for? I
         | personally think it's a good thing they limit the pre-installed
         | Linux models to their professional/business line of laptops.
         | Supporting Linux on every model is probably a waste of time.
        
           | vbezhenar wrote:
           | I filtered business laptops by using Linux checkbox and got
           | only 3 results. https://www.dell.com/en-us/work/shop/dell-
           | laptops-and-notebo...
        
             | stagger87 wrote:
             | Feel free to use my link to see more business laptops with
             | Linux. There's 7 on my link and they are all configurable.
        
       | jiffygist wrote:
       | I have latitude 5500 (idk if it's different laptop). I am
       | generally happy with it, except for a few minor issues:
       | 
       | - It came with a broken charger, the service replaced it.
       | 
       | - Sometimes when I plug in the charger when the lid is closed, it
       | doesn't start charging (the front light turns on and off after a
       | second), so I have to open the lid and re-plug the charger. Only
       | happens on Linux.
       | 
       | - My touchpad is recognized as "PS/2 Generic Mouse" by libinput,
       | so I can't have touchpad scrolling.
       | 
       | - It only has UEFI boot.
        
         | crateless wrote:
         | > - My touchpad is recognized as "PS/2 Generic Mouse" by
         | libinput, so I can't have touchpad scrolling.
         | 
         | I have the same issue. Different Dell laptop though. It's been
         | an issue for a looong time. Scrolling reliably fails at least
         | once a week forcing a reboot.
        
       | marune wrote:
       | Dell/Ubuntu, never again. Running Pop! on my Lenovo X1 Extreme
       | 2nd gen.
        
       | octagons wrote:
       | I have been running Linux on Thinkpad X1 Carbon laptops for
       | several generations now: Gentoo on Gen 1, Debian on Gen 5, and
       | now Arch on Gen 9. I can't recommend them enough for a Linux
       | daily driver and development workstation!
        
       | BeefWellington wrote:
       | I really think articles like this can help drive Lenovo to go
       | back to their old superior keyboards.
       | 
       | However, apart from the missing [2019], should there not also be
       | a [Sponsored] tag? The author's review can't reliably be seen to
       | be unbiased (emphasis mine below).                   I just spent
       | the better part of this past year year struggling with the
       | Thinkpad P1, Lenovo's latest effort to compete with Dell's XPS 15
       | and Precision 5500 line. I had had a Precision 5510 in the past,
       | which had been my favorite laptop of all time, except for some
       | small issues that led me to explore Lenovo's latest.
       | I was talking with the Dell folks recently about my experiences
       | with (and general fussiness regarding) Linux laptops and **they
       | offered to send me a new Precision 5540 to give them constructive
       | feedback.** After a few days with the new machine, it was obvious
       | that it was the machine for me and I shut down my Thinkpad P1 for
       | good.
        
         | davidatbu wrote:
        
         | microtherion wrote:
         | The article reminds me a bit of Jerry Pournelle's _Chaos Manor_
         | columns. The author writes glowing reviews of the free hardware
         | thrown at them, while the actual experience they describe seems
         | somewhat dubious for users who can't expect free hardware and
         | personal phone support.
         | 
         | If I understand the article correctly, their recommended "Linux
         | Developer Laptop" is permanently stuck on a fairly old version
         | of Linux, and you better not compile much if you want to get
         | decent battery life. Neither of this strikes me as ideal for
         | Linux developers, but what do I know...
        
       | deepsquirrelnet wrote:
       | Is it an unpopular opinion to hate working on any laptop?
        
         | dasloop wrote:
         | Unless you have an external display, keyboard, and mouse. I
         | have my laptop always connected to a screen (34'') unless I
         | need mobility (a meeting room, a plane). A desktop cannot be
         | turned into a mobile solution ;)
        
         | secondcoming wrote:
         | You'd think. But I'm with you. I never saw the appeal and
         | avoided them until Covid hit.
        
       | hughrr wrote:
       | No.
       | 
       | I have a 5550 which is I assume what the author is referring to.
       | It's garbage. Overheats constantly, the touchpad is dire, the
       | screen has bad vignette around the edges, it's noisy, the thing
       | hard freezes when you plug it into a dock, the webcam only works
       | 50% of the time you power it up and if you pick it up by the base
       | it flexes so badly the touchpad clicks. The keyboard is also
       | soggy as hell and the battery lasts 3 hours if you're really
       | lucky.
       | 
       | It's the worst laptop I've ever had the displeasure of using. I
       | am just glad I didn't pay for the thing.
       | 
       | But a Thinkpad or a MacBook and just give this a hard pass.
       | 
       | I'm using a 14" MacBook Pro which was much cheaper and it's a far
       | more productive machine without all of the above problems!
        
         | Underphil wrote:
         | I have a Precision 7510 running Linux and don't have any of
         | these issues so I wonder how different those two series
         | actually are.
        
           | dasloop wrote:
           | We used to buy Precision 5500 series laptops (latest model:
           | 5560), but they have issues with thermal management. Over
           | time, the battery expands due to temperature to the point of
           | moving the trackpad up. Now we are giving Dell a new chance
           | using the 7500 series (now 7760).
           | 
           | The 5560 is between 7.7mm (0.30") (front) and 11.64mm (0.56")
           | (rear) thick. The thickness of the 7560 is between 25 mm
           | (0.98") and 27.36 mm (1.08"). The increased thickness should
           | solve (or help solve) the overheating.
        
         | sly010 wrote:
         | > If you pick it up by the base it flexes so badly the touchpad
         | clicks.
         | 
         | The XPS15 does the same. What's your USB vendor id / device id?
         | I am working on a libinput patch that mitigates that [0].
         | 
         | [0]
         | https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/libinput/libinput/-/merge_req...
        
           | shawnb576 wrote:
           | Same. I bought an XPS 15 last year and the thing didn't work
           | that well with _windows_, let alone linux. All the same
           | thigns, the touchpad clicked (I even had them come try to
           | repair), it got so hot I couldn't put it in my lap, and even
           | with light usage, battery life was well less than 4h. Just
           | garbage. It's too bad, the screen is lovely and I actually
           | liked the keyboard, but I saw that I had a made a mistake and
           | sold it while I could. Never again.
           | 
           | In comparison, I have a 2018 era XPS 13 9370 and it runs
           | Linux pretty well. I think Dell is trying hard to come up
           | with nice hardware but they don't have the chops to make it
           | all come together including heat management, assembly, power
           | usage, etc.
           | 
           | I'm sticking with my XPS 13 and interested to see what a MS
           | Surface Laptop 5 looks like when they come out later this
           | year.
           | 
           | I think Dell
        
         | gshulegaard wrote:
         | Hmmm, I have a 5540 currently and don't have the problems you
         | had (and I actually replaced the factory Ubuntu with PopOS
         | after a year or two).
         | 
         | Although battery life is not great, but I am not sure that is
         | as much a hardware issue as it is a software one. Although I am
         | waiting on baited breath for AMD based hardware.
        
           | krzyk wrote:
           | I have 5560 and I don't have such issues also.
           | 
           | I don't like the touchpad because it is too big and lacks
           | separate physical buttons.
           | 
           | And I don't like that TB ports don't work with WD19TB docking
           | station (from Dell!).
           | 
           | The wifi range is poor and it is heavy when comparing to
           | ThinkPad.
           | 
           | But besides those issue. I like it.
        
         | brightball wrote:
         | For what it's worth, I bought a Precision 7200 Developer
         | Edition and it's been great. I came from using Mac's for 10
         | years before the switch.
         | 
         | I can't speak for the 5500 and I haven't used it with a dock at
         | all, but then I've never used docks in general. At this point I
         | think a USB-C plugged into a monitor with several ports would
         | be close enough.
         | 
         | A lot of it just has to do with you making a choice that you're
         | happy with. I loved using Macs for a decade and I know plenty
         | of people who HATE them because they have to use them at work
         | and they simply didn't have a choice. Because they didn't have
         | a choice, they focus on the things they don't like.
         | 
         | When I picked my Dell I looked a lot of options and eventually
         | came down to Dell or System76. Ended up going with Dell mostly
         | because of past good experiences with their support and that
         | made me more comfortable. It took a little getting used to and
         | there were things I had to figure out along the way but it was
         | my choice so I saw it through.
         | 
         | My next laptop will probably be a System76 or a Framework, but
         | this beast from Dell is doing great right now. It's a portable
         | desktop for me.
        
         | flakiness wrote:
         | If you're OK with MacOS, you don't need Linux laptop. Linux
         | laptop users (like me) have reasons to go into this constrained
         | space :-(
         | 
         | That's said, I roughly agree with you. I have 5530. It's
         | throttled quickly. The battery goes out in a few hours, and
         | yeah, the fan noise.
         | 
         | I'm thinking about giving up Linux and switching to
         | Windows/WSL. It's a bit too much to live with Linux over this
         | mediocre laptop. I guess Dell laptops will work fine with
         | Windows.
        
         | Spooky23 wrote:
         | Dell universal docking is hot garbage, and they don't really
         | support it unless to pay for a higher tier.
         | 
         | I understand why people would rather not use Apple, but to me
         | going through the drama of dealing with Linux laptops and
         | shitty OEMs, I'd rather go with a pleasant MacOS experience and
         | use separate Linux VMs if needed for builds.
        
         | mathematicaster wrote:
         | > No.
         | 
         | Completely OT. Is the rhetoric of authority on the internet
         | being fined tuned for superficial social media interaction?
         | Vaguely reminds me by analogy the thumbnail engineering on
         | youtube.
        
           | tedunangst wrote:
           | I rather prefer comments that telegraph agree or disagree.
           | You can tell me all about how long you've had your laptop and
           | what you do with it later, but start with the point.
        
         | pjerem wrote:
         | I was going to write exactly this.
         | 
         | I don't know about Linux support since I have to use Windows on
         | it but oh boy it is crap. The fans are always on whatever you
         | do, the left part of the keyboard is frequently burning hot.
         | Touchpad is mostly really good ... when it works, because as
         | soon as I wash my hands, it stops detecting anything. The audio
         | part, at least on Windows, is pure random. USB docks randomly
         | works and once a USB-C device is plugged in you are good for
         | overheating near the connector.
         | 
         | For me it's total garbage and I'm just waiting for it to die
         | and my employer to change it for something better.
         | 
         | Our newest Dell laptops looks good but I'm never trusting this
         | company again.
        
           | csdvrx wrote:
           | > I was going to write exactly this.
           | 
           | Same. I made the mistake of getting a Dell 2-in-1 without
           | trying it first.
           | 
           | Whether on Windows or on Linux, it's a pain to use.
           | 
           | I found serious ACPI bugs (not just the kind that can be
           | easily fixed with iasl) which made me conclude power
           | management could not work reliably, whether on Windows or on
           | Linux.
           | 
           | It's was usable at all on Windows 10 only thanks to Microsoft
           | extremely careful approach: waking from suspend every now and
           | then, checking the % of battery consumed, giving up on
           | suspend and powering off should the hardware be caught lying
           | about the power envelope while having been "sleeping".
           | 
           | No wonder why Dells risk catching fire if put in a
           | backpack...
        
             | pjerem wrote:
             | > No wonder why Dells risk catching fire if put in a
             | backpack...
             | 
             | omg I also had this and forgot to add it to my rant ! One
             | night I was going down to the kitchen to drink a glass of
             | water and I heard a loud fan noise coming from somewhere.
             | Sure enough it came from my backpack. I opened it and it
             | was extremely hot inside. I wonder what could have happened
             | if I had a good sleep that night.
        
           | tmm wrote:
           | I've been running Linux on a 5550 for about six months now,
           | and the hardware is rock solid.
           | 
           | Everything works fine. I've experienced no overheating,
           | network is stable, all the USB bits work, it docks and
           | undocks without issue, the web cam works, audio works, it
           | sleeps, hibernates and wakes up fine. Fans aren't very loud
           | and I've only ever heard them spin up when compiling (I would
           | say the full speed fans on the 5550 are about as loud as full
           | speed fans on a 2016 Macbook Pro). The large touchpad works
           | well enough. The 4k screen is OK, and matte, which I consider
           | a bonus. The keyboard is average, certainly not the worst
           | laptop keyboard I've ever used, but far from the best.
           | 
           | However, I wouldn't buy one for myself. Simply because of how
           | flexible it is. It is nearly unusable when sat on anything
           | but a hard flat surface. It's like the designers never even
           | tested it as a LAPtop. Tiny, imperceptible flexes, or even
           | just more pressure on one side than the other and the
           | touchpad generates clicks.
           | 
           | Also, a USB-A port would have been way more useful than an
           | SD-card slot.
        
             | thanatos519 wrote:
             | This has been my experience with this hardware too. Agree
             | 100% about the USB-A port, but Ethernet would have been
             | nice too!
             | 
             | I use it as a portable workstation, so it is always on a
             | desk with a keyboard and mouse. Definitely not suitable for
             | lap use, but that's no problem for me.
             | 
             | Way nicer than the XPS13, that's for sure!
        
       | ModernMech wrote:
       | I have a Dell Precision 5560 with Ubuntu installed from the
       | factory. While the article says that they find power management
       | is where the laptop shines, I have had the opposite experience.
       | I've found that often my 5560 is dead because the battery quickly
       | drains when its off. Does anyone have a fix for this? It seems
       | this thread has attracted some fellow users. Do you have this
       | problem as well? It's really surprising to me that this was an
       | issue out of the box from a vendor who has been selling Linux
       | systems for a while now.
        
       | gnfargbl wrote:
       | I recently bought an LG Gram 17" for use as a Linux developer
       | laptop. So far, I'm absolutely delighted with it: huge 2560x1600
       | screen, fast, silent, hardly weighs a thing, decent battery life,
       | Thunderbolt 4 and everything works in Ubuntu 22.04, without
       | special drivers. Definitely worth a look.
        
         | christophilus wrote:
         | I can't do an off-center keyboard. I wish there was a Linux
         | laptop with really good build quality and a centered keyboard.
         | For now, my crummy old XPS will do.
        
       | jeffbee wrote:
       | Coincidentally also a great doorstop. 2 kilos puts this laptop
       | way out in niche territory. Pretty much nobody wants that. The
       | perfect Linux developer laptop is anything with an xterm and a
       | radio that can reach the Linux box where you are actually
       | working.
        
       | OrderlyTiamat wrote:
       | I think this should say (2019) in the title, I was somewhat
       | surpried to read "Dell ships a pre-installed a customized Ubuntu
       | LTS release (currently 18.04) "
        
       | reincarnate0x14 wrote:
       | Chromebooks and Mac Airs are still better for actual travel use
       | just due to size and power draw (airplane sockets are typically
       | only good for about 180W before they trip. Varies by plane a bit,
       | only one I've seen meaningfully higher was an A380 for Emirates
       | that seemed good to about 250W).
       | 
       | Outside of the big names, I've had a lot of luck with FreeBSD and
       | recent Linux on the MSI G-70x "gamer" laptops, getting the nvidia
       | cards to work in the GPU-switching mode with the lower power
       | Intel ones is finicky but if you don't need to run games or CAD
       | or whatever on it that's not a concern most of the time.
       | Typically 50-75% of a similar Mac and available with NVME ssds
       | and 32GB or more of memory. Atheros/Killer network adapters are
       | not amazing but works and most have a RJ45 gig or 2.5g ethernet
       | port if you need it.
        
       | sgadimbayli wrote:
       | Yeah, had a friend who always complained about this machine.
       | 
       | I personally finally found Thinkpad T14 to work properly with no
       | issues with 4 hours of battery life on Ubuntu(Regolith) out ot
       | the box.
       | 
       | Only issues with this model for me is that the speakers are very
       | weak, you can barely hear anythint most of the time.
        
       | andix wrote:
       | Edit: oh it's an old post. I got the 5560.
       | 
       | Got one from my company (with Windows 10 though) and it's an
       | amazing device. Really fast, but still not too loud, too hot or
       | too heavy. Good 16:10 screen and battery lifetime is also good.
        
       | anyfactor wrote:
       | Unrelated.
       | 
       | Why do people hyperlink the title text? It is annoying. I wanted
       | to mark and search the "Dell's Precision 5500" bit to see what
       | the machine looked like. Then I tapped the link. Hyperlinking
       | makes mouse highlighting difficult.
       | 
       | Hyperlink title is all over the internet and it is annoying and
       | it serves no purpose.
        
         | lucideer wrote:
         | Somewhat unrelated.
         | 
         | Why do browsers make it so difficult to copy text within
         | hyperlinks. The Presto layout engine handled this perfectly 15
         | years ago - how have other browsers not managed to fix this in
         | the intervening period?
        
           | anyfactor wrote:
           | I think mobile-friendliness has to be blamed for this. Most
           | browsers these days have "copy link text".
        
           | andrewxdiamond wrote:
           | See my sibling comment.
           | 
           | tl;dr hold alt
        
           | [deleted]
        
         | andrewxdiamond wrote:
         | If you hold alt while highlighting, it bypasses the click
         | events letting you highlight to your hearts content.
         | 
         | Sometimes this doesn't work when the site is using JS to do
         | some kindof click handler, but it should work fine for an a tag
        
           | anyfactor wrote:
           | TIL. Thanks.
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | twstdzppr wrote:
       | I have a Precision 3561 running Ubuntu and it's pretty great if
       | you ask me.
        
       | psanford wrote:
       | I've not had a Precision laptop, but I did use multiple
       | generations of the XPS 13 with linux, and I was fairly
       | disappointed with that experience. My XPS 13s had keyboards that
       | would occasionally miss inputs, they had annoying coil whine, and
       | the port selection got worse and worse over each generation.
       | 
       | I've been much happier running linux on the Lenovo T series
       | recently. It is less flashy but seems to be made better. The only
       | real complaint I have with Lenovo is the mediocre speakers.
       | 
       | I am excited about asahi linux opening up the possibility to have
       | my next machine be an M1 macbook.
        
       | 1MachineElf wrote:
       | My Dell Precision 5520 was a big disappointment. In spite of
       | having a Xeon CPU, Dell decided that this specific model would
       | not get ECC RAM support. Other Dell laptops from that era using
       | the same CPU do support ECC RAM, but then you have to give up
       | portability. It's my most regretted laptop purchase.
        
       | vernie wrote:
       | Pfft MacBook? This 12 year old ThinkPad is great, you gotta
       | believe me!
        
       | halz wrote:
       | I think a great deal of success with this laptop and Linux is
       | owed to the stewardship provided by Mario Limonciello while he
       | was with Dell
       | [https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Dell-
       | Mar...]. Hopefully Dell can continue to carry the torch. Being
       | able to use fwupd to keep platform firmware (including the
       | docking station) up-to-date has been a treat. "It just works",
       | even.
       | 
       | But for this Precision line specifically, there are only a
       | handful of laptops that can run linux with (nearly) full platform
       | functionality _and_ be outfitted with ECC memory.
        
       | [deleted]
        
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