[HN Gopher] CD sales grow for first time since 2004
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       CD sales grow for first time since 2004
        
       Author : Drew_
       Score  : 141 points
       Date   : 2022-03-11 15:59 UTC (7 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.axios.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.axios.com)
        
       | pacifika wrote:
       | Yeah the current generation sees right through software as a
       | tracking service.
        
         | bin_bash wrote:
         | You think teens wary of Spotify tracking what they listen to
         | caused a 15% increase in sales?
        
           | pacifika wrote:
           | Teens see the result of the internet on their mental health,
           | and decide to forego it yes. Even lawmakers clued up
        
             | onemoresoop wrote:
             | I really hope to see that and maybe a movement emerging in
             | that direction. Sadly teenagers are one good target for
             | commercial music because they could be easily manipulated
             | with tropes that no longer work for other age groups (but
             | they did when they were teenagers).
        
             | aidenn0 wrote:
             | I have two teenage children and they both pay out of their
             | own pockets for Spotify
        
             | trophycase wrote:
             | My experience is that teens have poor mental health and
             | have no idea the internet is causing it.
        
             | irrational wrote:
             | Wait, what? You are joking, right? What percentage of teens
             | have foregone the Internet?
        
             | ryanmcbride wrote:
             | you got some sources to back that up?
        
       | pavlov wrote:
       | After a decade of streaming movies, I started buying Blu-Rays
       | again last year.
       | 
       | The last straw was trying to watch Kurosawa's "Ran". The
       | supposedly 4K remaster available on Amazon Prime Video is
       | criminally badly encoded. During the raid on the castle, you
       | literally can't see the smoke because macroblocks are popping so
       | hard on every keyframe.
       | 
       | The Blu-Ray is pristine and nobody can take it away from me. With
       | streaming services, you pay for movies but you never know what
       | quality they actually deliver on a given day. These are public
       | corporations trying to deliver shareholder returns in what has
       | become an environment of sinking stock prices, so if they can
       | save on bandwidth costs by making the movie look a bit worse,
       | they'll probably do it at some point -- and then again next
       | quarter.
        
         | deergomoo wrote:
         | > The supposedly 4K remaster available on Amazon Prime Video is
         | criminally badly encoded. During the raid on the castle, you
         | literally can't see the smoke because macroblocks are popping
         | so hard on every keyframe
         | 
         | This is such a widespread issue, especially in dark scenes.
         | Netflix is bad, but Prime Video seems by far the worst. I
         | watched Mr Robot through a few months ago, and at times it was
         | like watching 2009-era YouTube, despite being 4K on paper.
         | 
         | I'll take a 1080p Blu-Ray over a 4K stream any day. UHD Blu-Ray
         | is nice, but it's a shame it's still 1.5-2x the price of
         | regular BD. Then again you can still buy DVDs for some reason,
         | so I guess high quality physical media is starting to be
         | considered an enthusiast option..
        
       | xeromal wrote:
       | Similarly related, I've been collecting UHD blu-rays for the past
       | year and have been enjoying it greatly.
       | 
       | Lawrence of Arabia is being released as a 4k scan later this year
       | and I'm pumped!
       | 
       | I think there are a few parts to physical media collection
       | 
       | * No fear of the media getting "Cancelled" and you losing access
       | to it
       | 
       | * Quality is always consistent. 4k and high quality audio bit
       | rates generally do ok when streaming but start artifacting when
       | there are any hiccups in your connection. I have GB service and I
       | Still have low quality moments on my streaming.
       | 
       | * Collecting items scratches an itch I didn't know I had
       | 
       | * With vynyl and CDs, listening to a whole album shows you songs
       | that you wouldn't normally consider or search for. Spotify makes
       | it easy to skip a song you may not like but I tend to try out new
       | songs on my record player and sometimes I like new things
       | 
       | * The artwork for blu-rays, vynyls, and CDs can be beautiful and
       | make a nice addition to a shelf or library in your living room.
        
         | Scalestein wrote:
         | Something about vinyl specifically is the fact that there is a
         | real break in the album when one side ends. It requires some
         | thought and gives an additional aspect to artists when creating
         | the track listing.
         | 
         | For example, "Stairway To Heaven" is the last track on the
         | first side of Led Zeppelin IV. If you listen on Spotify the
         | song hits the (overplayed) epic climax, smooth come down and
         | ends with some haunting vocals. Then immediately the jaunty bop
         | of Misty Mountain Hop comes on all bouncing around the room in
         | a totally contrasting upbeat mood. Very jarring.
         | 
         | It is very obvious these were planned to the end of one side
         | and the beginning of another. When Stairway ends I need a
         | minute to breathe and take it in before moving on. With a vinyl
         | record this is planned for and intended by the artist, but on
         | any other medium (save cassettes maybe) you lose this
         | capability.
        
           | mark-r wrote:
           | Even just the fact that the artist gets to specify the play
           | order. Today it's rare that a playlist will even have two
           | songs from the same artist in sequence, but in olden days you
           | could have a sequence that was greater than the sum of the
           | parts. My favorite example is the last 3 songs on side A of
           | The Cars Candy-O - Double Life is kind of relaxing, Shoo Be
           | Doo cranks up the tension, and Candy-O starts with a
           | crescendo that releases the tension. I don't actually know if
           | that was intentional, but it feels like it was.
        
         | bgorman wrote:
         | If you use YouTube and search for "LG Oled 4k" you will find
         | fantastic looking streaming videos that look better than
         | anything streaming from Netflix, HBO max, Disney plus, Apple TV
         | etc...
         | 
         | It is very frustrating that Blu Ray is the only way to get high
         | quality Hollywood content. The technology is there for
         | streaming
        
         | humaniania wrote:
         | I don't understand 4K blu ray. It's 4x the resolution of HD but
         | only has ~2x the storage capacity of blu ray. Isn't that
         | limiting bitrate/quality?
        
           | xeromal wrote:
           | UHD Blu-Rays can go up to 100GB in capacity and can be read
           | at 144Mbits/second. I don't think it limits many movies, but
           | my 4k Lord of the Rings copy has the movie split into
           | multiple discs.
        
           | deergomoo wrote:
           | Different codecs. Regular Blu-Rays are largely H.264 (though
           | some of the original releases are MPEG-2 like DVDs); UHD is
           | H.265 which is way more space efficient.
        
         | WalterBright wrote:
         | All true except for one thing. DVDs and Blurays are very
         | susceptible to the slightest damage, even invisible damage.
         | Every time I play one, I wonder if it is going to play or hang
         | halfway through. Many also make it hard to actually get to the
         | movie, inserting several minutes worth of various delays.
         | 
         | At least CDs don't have that last problem, just insert and they
         | play. CDs can also be pretty beat up and still play fine.
        
           | titzer wrote:
           | I have over 1000 DVDs. The vast majority I bought used.
           | They're a lot more durable in my experience, as long as you
           | don't abuse them. Slight scratches can be buffed out. Some
           | have a reflective foil layer printed on the "up" side (rather
           | than integrated into the plastic layers), and if you damage
           | that, it's hosed.
           | 
           | Store your DVDs in sleeves or in the original cases, and you
           | shouldn't have any problems. Don't leave them laying around
           | or stack them.
           | 
           | At some point I want to rip all my DVDs and put them on a
           | media server (~4-6TB worth), but it's a serious undertaking.
        
             | mark-r wrote:
             | When my kids were very young, I discovered that they had a
             | talent for destroying DVDs. So I put together a media PC
             | and started ripping. I've had to upgrade the HD a couple of
             | times, but every kid's DVD I ever bought is now available
             | instantly on that PC, and the originals are packed away in
             | boxes where they don't get touched.
        
             | adenozine wrote:
             | Local computer shops might be a place I'd check. I know
             | some places that could put a high schooler after school to
             | work on a simple project like that for a few days.
        
               | titzer wrote:
               | I calculated that 4 DVDs per hour would take 250
               | hours....that's several weeks of work. I found a robot
               | that does this, but the company that makes it seems to
               | have gone out of business.
        
               | morsch wrote:
               | You could use multiple drives in parallel. Also:
               | https://github.com/automatic-ripping-machine/automatic-
               | rippi...
        
               | adenozine wrote:
               | Assuming a single-threaded process with one final
               | destination, sure. If you're just archiving them, a
               | couple cheap-o machines with external SSDs can really
               | crank through the bytes.
               | 
               | 1000 dvds is really not such a large number, it will go a
               | lot quicker than you think.
               | 
               | Source: I once made 180(!) copies of a ~400 page document
               | for an event, by using six copy machines and collating
               | from stacks of 30 sheets. I don't remember exactly how
               | long it took, but it was less than 2 full workdays. It's
               | all about the M:N efficiency!
        
           | marcodiego wrote:
           | > Many also make it hard to actually get to the movie,
           | inserting several minutes worth of various delays.
           | 
           | This depends on the software you use to play it.
        
           | adamredwoods wrote:
           | I wish the component players had better read failure
           | programming to overcome those scratches. I have tried finding
           | reviews for the better players with no luck. Using a laptop
           | sometimes handles scratches better.
        
             | WalterBright wrote:
             | In my experience, DVD players have gotten steadily more
             | able to deal with damaged discs over the years. But still,
             | if one doesn't play in one player, it might play in
             | another, or maybe a blueray machine will play it. It's not
             | predictable.
             | 
             | Sometimes, washing the disc will get it to play. Sometimes,
             | rubbing a tiny bit of oil (!) on it will get it to play.
        
           | AlexandrB wrote:
           | From my understanding, CDs are actually quite prone to damage
           | because the layer that stores the data is actually on the
           | "label" side of the CD. Anything that damages the label can
           | also damage the data layer just underneath.
           | 
           | DVDs moved the data layer into the middle - sandwiched
           | between two layers of plastic, Blu-rays move it to the
           | surface opposite the label, but add a protective coating to
           | try to keep it from getting damaged[1]. I _think_ DVDs are
           | actually the least prone to permanent damage from scratches
           | because of their sandwich structure - surface scratches can
           | often be buffed out. However all 3 can also progressively
           | rust if damage exposes the recording layer to air[2].
           | 
           | [1] https://www.cdrom2go.com/blu-ray-information
           | 
           | [2] https://blog.discogs.com/en/say-no-to-disc-rot-how-to-
           | look-a...
        
             | qbasic_forever wrote:
             | Yeah my experience with physical media from the cassette
             | age to now is that CDs are by far the most finnicky of the
             | physical medias. Any little scratch or gunk leads to
             | skipping and bad playback. I can count on one hand how few
             | DVDs I've seen that had problems, and I've never seen a
             | blu-ray that ever failed to play.
        
             | jbverschoor wrote:
             | I was archiving / ISO'ing my CDs/DVDs last month. So many
             | of them weren't even recognized as a disk. Many had read
             | errors. The disks were in proper form.
             | 
             | Did the same for my 3.5" floppy disks. None of those had
             | problems
        
               | metalliqaz wrote:
               | You should note that if you were using Windows 10, it
               | sometimes has problems with old CD-ROMs. If you rip the
               | disk, it reads fine, but Windows Explorer doesn't
               | understand the filesystem and reports the disk as a DVD-R
               | or something
        
               | sascha_sl wrote:
               | It's important to mention the durability of the medium is
               | very different when you compare writables to pressed, and
               | there's a large variance in quality for writeables,
               | particularly now that lots of old stock (with a history
               | of non-favourable storage conditions) is intemixed with
               | demand being low.
               | 
               | If you really value your data, use archive disks. They
               | are costly, but they will actually reach their rated
               | lifespan, often of 50-100 years.
        
           | nicoburns wrote:
           | In many jurisdictions it's legal to have a digital backup if
           | you own the cd/dvd. So you wouldn't necessarily have to
           | actually use the CD/DVD to play the media.
        
           | chasil wrote:
           | Actually, Blu-rays are supposed to have an improved chemical
           | formulation that resists scratches/damage compared to CD and
           | DVD media.
           | 
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray#Hard-
           | coating_technolog...
           | 
           | Audio on scratched CDs can sometimes be cleanly ripped and
           | repaired with the cdparanoia program. I don't know anything
           | that does this with DVDs.
           | 
           | https://www.xiph.org/paranoia/
           | 
           | CDs and DVDs can also be refinished by equipment that grinds
           | down and polishes the plastic, assuming the data layer is
           | intact beneath it. This cannot be done with Blu-ray media,
           | because of the altered surface chemistry.
        
         | gwbas1c wrote:
         | Same here. I started buying UHDs because they meet or exceed
         | theatrical resolution. I stopped buying DVDs and BluRays
         | knowing that someday I'd have a TV where I'd see the pixels.
        
         | r3trohack3r wrote:
         | > With vynyl and CDs, listening to a whole album shows you
         | songs that you wouldn't normally consider or search for.
         | Spotify makes it easy to skip a song you may not like but I
         | tend to try out new songs on my record player and sometimes I
         | like new things
         | 
         | This is the exact itch I tried to replicate with
         | https://audile.app
         | 
         | It loads a random album from Deezer's collection on every page
         | load.
        
         | nebula8804 wrote:
         | I'm glad that more people than me are doing this. I'm concerned
         | about the shrinking selection of PC Blueray drives will prevent
         | us from further keeping control of our media. The problem with
         | Blueray is the requirement of needing updates for newer titles.
         | There are methods of stripping the DRM and getting unencumbered
         | files but after they stop selling the last blueray drive then
         | the clock starts.
        
           | xeromal wrote:
           | Yeah, I've thought about this too. I have an LG super drive
           | that does blu ray, lightscribe, and a bunch of other cool
           | tech but it's about 8-10 years old. I'm waiting for it to
           | self destruct. lol
        
             | nebula8804 wrote:
             | LG sells Bluerays drive that can be hacked but
             | unfortunately they have mixed quality/reliability. Pioneer
             | sells really reliable drives that can only currently do
             | regular blueray, not 4k but they are being worked on. I
             | suggest to nab one before they disappear and then hopefully
             | they get cracked eventually. MakeMKV forums can provide
             | more info.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | IYasha wrote:
         | +1! btw, I heard it's notoriously hard to play UHDs on a PC -
         | how do you do it?
        
           | 6yyyyyy wrote:
           | You let someone else do all the hard work and download their
           | DRM-free torrent.
        
           | tnbp wrote:
           | MakeMKV makes it trivial.
        
             | xeromal wrote:
             | This is the right way!
        
         | georgeecollins wrote:
         | You can still buy albums on MP3 from a variety of places. I
         | guess that is the same as getting the CD and ripping it, but I
         | like to own MP3s I have paid for. I enjoy playing music from my
         | collection rather than having it served to me by a service for
         | a variety of reasons. But I am not knocking streaming. It's
         | just nice to really have the asset.
        
           | kevin_thibedeau wrote:
           | You can't trust that commercial MP3s are encoded for gapless
           | playback which is sort of important for live albums that play
           | through without stopping. On my rips all pregaps are
           | preserved at the end of the previous track and playback is
           | always identical to the CD.
        
           | opan wrote:
           | Maybe I'm being pedantic, but CDs are higher quality than MP3
           | usually. You can rip losslessly to WAV or FLAC and preserve
           | the original. MP3 is lossy and will be a lesser version.
        
             | HNDen21 wrote:
             | when you buy a CD from amazon.. for lots of them, you can
             | download the MP3s right away after you paid for it
        
               | jolmg wrote:
               | Didn't know that. It's a weird disparity that you can't
               | download a PDF when you bought a book. You get an online
               | book viewer instead. I would have expected them to
               | likewise stream the audio if anything, or require you to
               | use their app to listen to it.
        
           | mzvkxlcvd wrote:
           | one problem i've found with music is someone discovers an
           | uncleared sample, and the album either becomes unavailable,
           | or stays available with samples removed so its not actually
           | the same album anymore.
        
             | boomboomsubban wrote:
             | Not a problem if you buy DRM free files, which most places
             | offer. You're just responsible for storing them from the
             | moment of purchase.
        
               | mzvkxlcvd wrote:
               | it is a problem. if you go to buy the album today, the
               | updated versions already have the offending samples
               | removed. the originally released CD does not have this
               | problem.
        
         | cameronh90 wrote:
         | I've been buying DVDs/Blu-Rays again.
         | 
         | In my case it's mainly because you can't trust the online
         | streaming companies to preserve access to content, especially
         | if it's older content that's no longer considered politically
         | appropriate.
         | 
         | The watershed moment for me was when Netflix removed The Mighty
         | Boosh over a small number of admittedly questionable scenes.
         | There are other places I could stream it from, but some other
         | content can be hard to find, even illegally. Other comedies
         | have had scenes modified or episodes pulled.
         | 
         | As a side benefit, I concur with the observation that the
         | quality of Blu-rays and even DVDs is typically better than the
         | streamers. Lots of films are 4k Dolby vision on Blu-Ray but
         | still only 1080p on Netflix/Prime. Apple TV tends to be better,
         | but usually no cheaper than buying the disc.
        
           | ndsipa_pomu wrote:
           | Sometimes it's almost as if they want you to pirate stuff.
           | 
           | Monkey Dust Series 3 is another series that is now impossible
           | to buy legally. They used various people's music but didn't
           | have the rights, so it got broadcast and then they couldn't
           | sell it on DVD.
           | 
           | I like to keep a copy of obscure and hard to find recordings
           | - it's almost as if recent history is being erased before our
           | very eyes.
        
             | pram wrote:
             | Monkey Dust is criminally underrated.
        
             | jonathankoren wrote:
             | > Monkey Dust Series 3 is another series that is now
             | impossible to buy legally. They used various people's music
             | but didn't have the rights, so it got broadcast and then
             | they couldn't sell it on DVD.
             | 
             | This has become a reoccurring thing in the streaming world.
             | Dramas have taken to changing the songs, and in the case of
             | Dawson's Creek _the theme_ [0].
             | 
             | I one time tried to watch an episode of Bevis and Butthead
             | streaming, and the parts where they comment on videos were
             | dead silent except for their remarks. Weird
             | 
             | [0] https://www.marieclaire.com/culture/a34671665/why-
             | dawsons-cr...
        
             | cameronh90 wrote:
             | Limmy's Show Season 3 is the exact same:
             | https://twitter.com/daftlimmy/status/542009546588581888
             | 
             | The fact that the BBC could make this mistake several times
             | does strike me as incompetence.
             | 
             | The Monkey Dust situation is a real shame, as it was such a
             | ground-breaking and innovative comedy programmes of its
             | time. Ridiculous that something so influential can now only
             | be watched thanks to piracy. Also kind of ironic
             | considering some of the themes of Monkey Dust...
             | 
             | The Wikipedia article also says this: "Another reason for
             | the lack of DVD releases of the later series is thought to
             | be the 'teenage jihadi' sketches being considered
             | unsuitable in the wake of the 7 July 2005 London bombings
             | that occurred a few months later."
        
           | mattl wrote:
           | Buy DVDs and rip them and run your own Plex server.
        
           | mywittyname wrote:
           | Even situations like Seinfeld. Netflix altered the aspect
           | ratio by cropping the image, and it really does effect the
           | show. And there's no option to change it.
        
             | kevin_thibedeau wrote:
             | That was done for the HD syndication run. Not Netflix's
             | fault.
        
               | mod50ack wrote:
               | However, Crackle ran HD 4:3 versions (in the original
               | framing), so those do exist.
        
         | jdesmond wrote:
         | I do the much cheaper version of this and collect high quality
         | 4k rips of movies and amass private tracker accounts.
         | 
         | A normal length movie is about 80-100GB.
         | 
         | I like the process of making groups in Plex too!
        
           | nebula8804 wrote:
           | I wish there was some guarantee of a movie's integrity
           | matches the original disc. There are so many versions of a
           | file floating around and while the file size of 80-100GB
           | seems to indicate no transcoding, you can't be 100% sure.
        
         | DougMellon wrote:
         | >With vynyl and CDs, listening to a whole album shows you songs
         | that you wouldn't normally consider or search for. Spotify
         | makes it easy to skip a song you may not like but I tend to try
         | out new songs on my record player and sometimes I like new
         | things
         | 
         | We currently have an old Macbook Pro running Qobuz that sits
         | next to our receiver. I used to stand up and skip to the next
         | song if I didn't like a track but it grew old quickly and I now
         | just let it play through.
         | 
         | I never realized how much good music I was skipping until now.
        
         | oneoff786 wrote:
         | > With vynyl and CDs, listening to a whole album shows you
         | songs that you wouldn't normally consider or search for.
         | Spotify makes it easy to skip a song you may not like but I
         | tend to try out new songs on my record player and sometimes I
         | like new things
         | 
         | This seems funny to me. Discoverability of new songs (and
         | artists) seems like the strongest benefit of Spotify and it's
         | kin. I usually check out a new album multiple times a week
        
           | layer8 wrote:
           | It's not discoverability, it's giving songs a chance that
           | don't sound appealing at first, because skipping them would
           | be too much of a hassle. Songs can grow on you after
           | listening to them a couple of times even if you didn't like
           | them initially. When using streaming services, that
           | trajectory rarely happens unless you specifically decide to
           | always listen to the whole album, multiple times.
        
             | xeromal wrote:
             | This is exactly what I meant. If a song doesn't immediately
             | tickle my fancy on spotify, I hit next. With a vinyl, I
             | just leave it on and oftentimes I end up liking it.
        
       | spoonjim wrote:
       | After several startups shut down and caused me to scramble to
       | export my data and change my workflow I've decided to put much
       | less of my life in things that other companies can tear away from
       | me. I use Dropbox, iCloud, etc. that I expect to stay available
       | and without big price increases, as well as things like Spotify
       | where I make sure to not invest too much time in curating
       | playlists in case Spotify's pricing gets raised to the point
       | where I don't want to use it anymore. Perhaps others have done
       | the same.
        
       | ozzythecat wrote:
       | I stopped purchasing ebooks and am buying hardcover or paperback,
       | even if it costs more.
       | 
       | I want to physically own my purchases, not just have some
       | entitlement to some file on a server.
        
         | WalterBright wrote:
         | I'm not buying NFTs, either!
        
       | uhtred wrote:
       | it's often cheaper to buy a cd and rip to flac than to buy a hi-
       | res download. Plus you also then have the cd to play on cd
       | player!
        
         | dehrmann wrote:
         | Only if your time is free.
        
           | washadjeffmad wrote:
           | I'm ashamed to admit that I will never be compensated for the
           | four minutes it took to rip the hour long CD that I will
           | listen to for the next few decades of my life.
           | 
           | Instead, I invoiced HN for the time it took me to browse this
           | forum and post this comment, and I strongly urge HN to
           | require registered users to include personal payment
           | information so we can bill each other for our time spent
           | reading and replying to each other.
           | 
           | Life is a tax on my time, and I will not be cheated.
        
           | uhtred wrote:
           | I do it in my free time
        
           | mindslight wrote:
           | I don't understand how people can post comments like this as
           | support for _streaming_.
           | 
           | Not being able to watch/listen anything when Internet uplink
           | or service is down. Low quality and artifacts due to
           | congestion. Relearning menus when on-high decides to change
           | the UI. Password resets and locked accounts. Suffering
           | through ads. Waiting for device firmware to update. Having to
           | buy a new device because your old one isn't supported.
           | Dealing with HDCP issues. Having to buy a new display because
           | your old one isn't supported.
           | 
           | That seems like a lot more wasted time and frustration at
           | inconvenient times, rather than having to do a bit of work on
           | your own schedule to rip a CD or start a torrent. I'd say the
           | main difference is that with the top-down solution you don't
           | have to think too hard - just do whatever the top-down system
           | instructs you do, no matter what it costs you.
        
       | deutschew wrote:
       | I grew up with Napster, Morpheus, KazaA, eDonkey/eMule. never
       | ever bought music.
       | 
       | recently i bought a music CD for the first time. I really liked
       | the artist. Was surprised to find:
       | 
       | - a complete booklet of all track lyrics
       | 
       | - some additional behind the scenes content
       | 
       | - hidden tracks
       | 
       | - no DRM, I can simply lend it to ppl.
       | 
       | - if need be Windows Media Player will rip to mp3
       | 
       | - a good feeling from sunk cost and my willingness to repeat this
       | 
       | There is a reason that CD/DVD sales in Japan are still going
       | strong.
        
         | momojo wrote:
         | Wrong thread?
        
         | bitsoda wrote:
         | You're probably looking for
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30641467
        
           | dang wrote:
           | Moved hither. Thanks!
        
       | AdmiralAsshat wrote:
       | Perhaps some consumers are discovering that they really don't
       | like it when an artist they have been listening to on their
       | subscription streaming service suddenly disappears because of a
       | label dispute.
        
         | ryanmcbride wrote:
         | That's what got me to finally set up a little script to tag,
         | convert, and store music files in apple music. I was getting
         | annoyed not only at entire albums or artists being unavailable
         | on apple music, but also sometimes individual songs, which just
         | seems insane to me.
         | 
         | Now I drag some flac files into a folder, the script converts
         | them to ALAC, tags them from discogs, and adds them to my apple
         | music library, which auto syncs to icloud so I can listen to
         | them on my phone whenever I want. No more "unavailable". I also
         | back the files up to a second location because one time like 10
         | years ago I think I heard a rumor of itunes randomly deleting
         | files that were added manually without being purchased through
         | the store. Don't know if that's a real thing or not but storage
         | is so cheap it doesn't really matter.
        
         | lotsofpulp wrote:
         | I assume those people would purchase a digital file of the song
         | with a lot less friction than buying and ripping a CD.
        
           | detaro wrote:
           | Plenty platforms will sell you a CD and give you the download
           | immediately.
        
           | midnightclubbed wrote:
           | Over the last 10 years people have been trained to stream
           | digital files. I am curious if the digital sales of artists
           | who disappeared from Spotify went up, or if they saw an
           | increase in physical media sales, or neither. I suspect a
           | small increase in physical sales as people realize the
           | fragility of digital distribution but data may say otherwise.
           | 
           | Is that information available? Back when physical sales were
           | the only sales it was easy to track the 'popularity' of any
           | given song or album, with streaming and digital sales those
           | numbers seem to be fire-walled by the various streaming
           | services.
        
           | AdmiralAsshat wrote:
           | Probably. But owning the CD allows you to re-rip it at some
           | future date if you decide that storage is cheaper than it was
           | 20 years ago and you'd really prefer to have some of your
           | favorite albums in lossless FLAC format than lossy MP3. Or at
           | the very least, maybe a _higher quality_ mp3 than the 128kbps
           | that was the norm during the Napster era.
        
             | onemoresoop wrote:
             | What I find is that unless you keep CDs in a very well
             | monitored environment (right humidity and away from light,
             | etc..) they aren't aging very reliably and sometimes they
             | stop working completely.
        
             | giantrobot wrote:
             | You're entirely discounting the cost of _physical_ storage.
             | It 's a non-zero and non-trivial cost to store and move all
             | those CDs. If you've ripped them with high quality lossless
             | settings you will not get better sound later reripping as
             | FLAC. So unless you only ever ripped them with the old
             | unregistered l3enc (limited to 112kbps and a shitty encoder
             | anyways) there's little reason to rerip them.
             | 
             | You may want to keep physical CDs for nostalgia or because
             | you like the physical artifact but if you've ripped them in
             | the past 15 or so years your lossless copy is likely
             | transparent to lossless to the human ear.
        
               | AdmiralAsshat wrote:
               | I fear you've misunderstood me. I said going from LOSSY
               | to Lossless, not lossless to lossless. Meaning even if
               | your first rip was LAME-encoded VBR MP3 or OGG, you might
               | decide you want to re-rip later as FLAC or APE.
        
               | giantrobot wrote:
               | And you misunderstood me, if you've got a good LAME rip
               | you will not be able to distinguish it from a FLAC rip
               | off the original CD. You'll be using several times the
               | storage for no perceptible improvement. While disk
               | storage is cheap the _physical_ storage of those CDs is
               | not nor is the time required to handle the CDs to rip.
        
       | bob1029 wrote:
       | I am certain I have contributed to this statistic.
       | 
       | I was sent off the deep end after Spotify removed one song in
       | particular from my playlist that I really wanted to listen to on
       | one occasion.
       | 
       | We are only into the month of March, and I have already spent
       | ~$500 YTD on physical CDs, BluRays and other multimedia formats.
       | Last year I probably spent close to 3-4k on the same.
       | 
       | The rate at which I have pirated content (which is otherwise
       | difficult to source on physical media) is also up dramatically
       | since this incident.
        
         | skydhash wrote:
         | I was so hyped when Spotify added my country. But I then found
         | that most of the artists I listen to (Reggae artists, CHVRCHES)
         | was missing from the catalog. I keep it for a little time as it
         | was cheap, but did not bother to renew when my card expired.
        
       | blt wrote:
       | As a person who carried a Discman for quite a few years, I do not
       | miss CDs. I can only imagine that these CD buyers are either
       | listening exclusively at home, or immediately ripping to FLAC.
       | 
       | I guess having the album art is nice, but if that's your main
       | motivation why not go all the way and collect vinyl?
        
       | kart23 wrote:
       | i've been buying cds for a while, mostly just new albums of a few
       | of my favorite artists. the only thing that worries me is that
       | most new cars don't have cd players anymore.
       | 
       | I also bought some cassettes a few years ago that are pretty
       | valuable now, but absolutely nowhere to play them since my old
       | car was my only cassette player.
        
         | brewdad wrote:
         | My car has a factory CD player still. Yay!
         | 
         | It's located INSIDE the glove box. WTH?
        
           | Kon-Peki wrote:
           | That's a seriously inconvenient location. Where do you keep
           | your driving gloves?
        
         | MartinCron wrote:
         | My older car has a 6 CD magazine, very fancy for the time. When
         | my kid noticed the "eject" button on the dashboard, she thought
         | that the car had ejector seats!
        
       | vikingerik wrote:
       | To be clear, this is an increase from calendar year 2020 to 2021.
       | The 2020 baseline was artificially low with the pandemic. This
       | isn't a trend, it's one skewed data point.
        
         | andrewmcwatters wrote:
         | Yeah, it's almost certainly more likely that the CD sales
         | market has hit a floor with a variable margin...
        
         | YaBomm wrote:
        
         | vmception wrote:
         | You're right, the trend is still down:
         | 
         | 2018 - $696m
         | 
         | 2019 - $631m
         | 
         | 2021 - $584m
        
       | Kapura wrote:
       | Anecdotally, I've purchased several new CDs over the past 12
       | months because I bought a used car that has a CD player and I CBA
       | to set it up to work with my phone. Given that the used car
       | market is undergoing an unprecedented boom, I wonder if some % of
       | CD sales come from similarly motivated new used cars owners.
        
         | Kaibeezy wrote:
         | I recently bought a "vintage" 2003 car, removed the aftermarket
         | touchscreen stereo, and reinstalled the OEM tape deck. I'm
         | playing my old cassettes, stuff I haven't listened to since the
         | 80s.
         | 
         | Adrian Belew, _Desire Caught by the Tail_.
         | 
         | Brand X, _Product_.
         | 
         | UK, _Danger Money_.
         | 
         | Yeah, not exactly hi-fi, but not unlistenably wobbly. Car has a
         | stick and wicked turbo lag too. Smiles for miles.
        
       | digisign wrote:
       | I have bought several CDs in the last year, in order to get
       | .flacs that weren't otherwise available, or not available at a
       | decent price. Unfortunately for the music business I've bought
       | many used. It's like $8 vs $24 and I don't need to downsample to
       | 16/48 to save space and play on the car stereo.
       | 
       | All older recordings should be cheaper to combat piracy. The idea
       | that I'm gonna pay top dollar for something multi-decades old
       | because they remastered it (which is 10x cheaper to produce) is
       | silly.
        
         | pessimizer wrote:
         | > All older recordings should be cheaper to combat piracy.
         | 
         | That would kill the sales of new stuff.
        
       | Spooky23 wrote:
       | I still do CDs, iTunes and iTunes Match.
       | 
       | I get all of the streaming benefits, etc on my phone, without
       | having to deal with a shitty streaming service. iTunes Songs are
       | DRM free.
       | 
       | Plus, since I'm pretty firmly established in the Apple world, I
       | have an easy escape path for when they finally fuck up the music
       | app beyond my level of tolerance.
       | 
       | Cost-wise, it's about the same. I probably spend about $100 year
       | on music most years.
        
       | nih0 wrote:
       | I've returned to buying physical media. Its really awesome.
       | Things I like dont just dissapear anymore. And the 10 movies or
       | so I watch per year is cheaper than a subscription service.
        
         | 2ion wrote:
         | For me, it was the trouble of inadquate losless download
         | offerings by so many labels / distributors. Even if you just
         | want a digital library, getting the physical medium and making
         | your private digital copy is a so much more stress-free
         | variant, and it also doesn't limit your choice, because almost
         | all music is available on CD and a much smaller fraction as
         | well-produced losless audio downloads. I'm not paying CD price
         | for a mp3, it's not the 2000s anymore, I can afford to download
         | 700M of data for an album --- data saving was the original
         | purpose of lossy audio codecs to begin with.
        
         | albertzeyer wrote:
         | But you will not be able to read the CD anymore after some
         | years.
        
           | zacwest wrote:
           | Burned CDs degrade because their method of writing is a
           | chemical change. Pressed CDs do not suffer the same problem.
        
             | [deleted]
        
             | TonyTrapp wrote:
             | Some bad pressings do - but it's true that the majority of
             | pressed CDs remain readable.
        
             | mark-r wrote:
             | Pressed CDs decay because the reflective aluminum layer
             | oxidizes. The bottom of a CD is a pretty impenetrable
             | plastic, but the top is just painted on.
        
           | egypturnash wrote:
           | Rip. Mix. Burn.
        
           | at_a_remove wrote:
           | I have CDs from the 1980s that read just fine. In any case, I
           | plan on backing them up at some point.
        
             | WalterBright wrote:
             | I do, too. Not one suffers from "CD rot".
             | 
             | I usually prefer CDs from the 80s, before they were
             | "remastered", dynamically compressed, etc.
        
               | kloch wrote:
               | Most of the first CD's in the 80's were made straight
               | from the masters engineered for Vinyl and Casette media.
               | They sounded awful with absurdly excessive EQ in the
               | 3-6KHz range. Non-technical people commented that they
               | preferred Vinyl because they could "hear the Aluminum" in
               | CD's.
               | 
               | This was eventually fixed and proper CD masters started
               | to become common in the early 90's.
               | 
               | Another thing to consider is the natural aging of our
               | ears. Even without abuse high frequency sensitivity
               | degrades as we get older. Those 80's CD's probably don't
               | sound as harsh to someone 40+ today as they did back
               | then.
        
               | mark-r wrote:
               | I remember going to hear the first CD player imported to
               | our city, it was a big event. I wondered why they had
               | picked speakers to go with it that sounded so horrible.
               | It wasn't until later that I found out it wasn't the
               | speakers.
        
               | midnightclubbed wrote:
               | They were always mastered, there was just the 90s-2000s
               | race for loudness that changed how they were mastered.
               | There are some genre's that benefitted from that loudness
               | war (pop music sonics changed dramatically) but yeah
               | anything which should have had subtlety got squashed to
               | oblivion.
               | 
               | How do you feel about more recent re-masters where they
               | have been more sensitive to over-compression and in some
               | cases re-re-mastered to address the appalling re-masters?
               | I have some issue with re-masters that attempt to fix
               | problems with the source material. I'm not a huge fan of
               | artists tinkering with the original material, adding
               | elements that got lost in the mix due to overdubs/noise,
               | were not technically possible, or just re-mixing for
               | their taste. At least Taylor Swift is up-front about re-
               | recording her albums.
               | 
               | My gut is that music recorded/mastered to tape is going
               | to sound 'as intended' on vinyl and everything recorded
               | digitally (the old DDD label on CDs) targeted CD. I have
               | nothing scientific to back that up though.
        
               | WalterBright wrote:
               | > How do you feel about ...
               | 
               | I don't trust them enough to risk spending money on more
               | re-masters. I always go for the original.
               | 
               | Interestingly, I've grown to dislike music that is too
               | perfectly produced. I like that the singing isn't
               | perfect, there's some background noise picked up by the
               | mikes, etc.
               | 
               | For example, listen to some of the Jefferson Airplane
               | albums from the 60s. Those albums would never be produced
               | today, because the band is a bit of a mess. The harmonies
               | are out of sync, the pitch is imperfect, the timing
               | erratic, everything is off kilter. But that rawness is,
               | strangely enough, what makes the albums so endearing and
               | a treasure. It's like the band has come by your house and
               | is just having fun in your living room.
               | 
               | So much better than the antiseptically perfect modern
               | productions, along with that awful ubiquitous autotuning.
               | Barf. C'mon, dare to have a sour note here and there.
        
               | mhh__ wrote:
               | I find recordings of Moreschi (the last castrated tenor
               | as far as I'm aware) to be very fascinating for that
               | reason. The quality is terrible, he isn't hitting the
               | notes or the rhythm particularly well, and yet it's
               | really endearing.
               | 
               | https://youtu.be/KLjvfqnD0ws is one that has been
               | digitally cleaned up but prefer listening to the messy
               | version sometimes
        
               | 999900000999 wrote:
               | Totally different type of music, but I feel the same way
               | about rap.
               | 
               | Eminem's very early music feels amateurish, you can hear
               | various audio issues. But it's some of its best work.
               | 
               | Now, anyone who makes an album can make something. That
               | sounds absolutely spotless with about $2,000 worth of
               | gear. Something's lost, there's something nice about
               | hearing a mistake someone makes, but they don't have
               | enough money to rerecord it so it stays on the record.
               | 
               | Rarely when I make my own music, I'll just leave some of
               | the problems in there.
        
               | at_a_remove wrote:
               | Here is one that is particularly insidious: some of the
               | remasters are done with new tracks, wherein the old
               | musicians are replaced with session musicians, who do not
               | have to be paid royalties and the like. I found out about
               | this practice and began listening carefully ...
        
               | AlexandrB wrote:
               | Wow. I didn't know about this practice. The music
               | industry never stops innovating new ways to screw over
               | their talent.
        
               | WalterBright wrote:
               | Computer programmers don't get royalties. Why is that
               | different?
        
               | WalterBright wrote:
               | Session musicians replace the band members a _lot_ even
               | in the 60s or 70s. Often, the band couldn 't play at all.
               | They'd have to learn to play their own tunes so they
               | could tour.
               | 
               | See "The Wrecking Crew" documentary.
               | 
               | Even for "Herb Alpert and the Tijuana Brass" there was no
               | "Tijuana Brass". Herb was a session musician and decided
               | he'd try making his own album. It was such a hit he had
               | to go round up some brass players so he could tour.
        
               | mark-r wrote:
               | Ah, the A of A&M.
        
             | albertzeyer wrote:
             | I have many CDs bought around 2000 which I cannot read
             | anymore.
        
         | symlinkk wrote:
         | You're confusing physical formats with the advantages of
         | ownership.
         | 
         | You can own DRM free digital files and have all of the same
         | advantages, plus also enjoy the ease of use of digital.
         | 
         | The only problem is there is no legal way of obtaining DRM free
         | digital copies of movies or tv shows. For music you have
         | Bandcamp and (I think) iTunes.
        
           | Groxx wrote:
           | I don't think they're confusing the two, it's more that
           | sellers are forcibly combining the two. Nobody likes it, but
           | they keep doing it, except in a couple sections where
           | massively rampant piracy has essentially forced them to
           | provide less user-hostile options.
        
           | aparks517 wrote:
           | > The only problem is there is no legal way of obtaining DRM
           | free digital copies of movies or tv shows.
           | 
           | I think that depends on where you are. Maybe someone will
           | correct me, but I was under the impression that here in the
           | US you can "format-shift" a DVD or BD you legally own by
           | ripping it to an unencrypted format so you can watch it on
           | your tablet or what-have-you. Isn't that the legal leg iTunes
           | stood on (before ITMS) for ripping CDs to listen to on your
           | computer or iPod?
        
             | Groxx wrote:
             | IANAL and have not followed this super closely so take this
             | with a grain of salt, but from what I understand the answer
             | is "no". In practice nobody pursues this kind of _personal_
             | use, but that 's very different from it being _legal_ , and
             | it has not truly been tested in courts either way.
             | 
             | You _can_ make backups... with the encryption intact. But
             | breaking DRM is _essentially always_ illegal for any
             | purpose, thanks to the wonderful DMCA. And that 's before
             | getting into EULAs that more and more frequently deny you
             | ownership over what you bought, only a "temporary,
             | revocable, non-transferable license to play this format on
             | licensed devices in specific circumstances" or similar.
        
             | symlinkk wrote:
             | It is pretty hard to rip Blu Rays, from my surface level
             | understanding only one piece of software supports it
             | (MakeMKV), and only certain Blu Ray drives with specific
             | versions of firmware support it.
        
               | jerf wrote:
               | mpv can be convinced to rip most blurays, but getting the
               | requisite magic files can be a bit of a trip. You're
               | looking for the latest "KEYDB.cfg".
               | 
               | There's also still a chunk of blurays that it just won't
               | rip because they're too sophisticated, although shocking
               | few releases seem to be releasing those. (Must be a lot
               | more expensive to make them.) You also run the risk that
               | if you're not careful about what you put in your drive,
               | you can have the latest Bluray disk revoke your drive
               | simply by it spinning up and doing the initial read
               | before you even ask for anything, from what I gather. I'm
               | not sure if this is a current risk, but it's always
               | changing.
               | 
               | I've also found there's some confusion about what
               | constitutes a 'track number'. DVD only has one, Bluray
               | seems to have two. Most releases keep both in sync, but
               | not all of them. The STTNG Blurays were a bit tricky to
               | get the right shows off in the right order.
        
         | brimble wrote:
         | > And the 10 movies or so I watch per year is cheaper than a
         | subscription service.
         | 
         | Libraries (and the free-if-you-have-a-participating-library-
         | card Kanopy streaming service) exist, too.
        
           | kjkjadksj wrote:
           | Back in like 2005 or so, I would get all my music and movies
           | from the library and just make rips to blanks to grow the
           | collection at home. I did that with netflix dvd service too.
        
         | blueridge wrote:
         | Yes, this is it. For me what matters is ownership--physical
         | media, objects, artwork. I like owning things that bring me joy
         | day after day. It's about being able to experience them
         | whenever I want, on my terms. We rent, and lease, and license
         | almost everything--books, software, cars, apartments, music,
         | movies, furniture. Everything is offered "as a service". I get
         | that a lot of people are drawn to the "flexibility" and ease of
         | use that comes with rentals, with subscriptions, but not me.
         | I'm not giving up on ownership.
        
           | z3c0 wrote:
           | One benefit of physical media that I don't see mentioned
           | here: if you like underground music, the rarity of the
           | CD/Vinyl can cause it to greatly appreciate in value over
           | time. It's a great reward for dedicated fans who are willing
           | to jump on a release early. A lot of my CD's double in value
           | within months (eg this album[1] came out only 2 years ago*
           | and has already tripled in value)
           | 
           | [1]: https://www.discogs.com/master/1701108-Spectral-Lore-
           | Mare-Co...
           | 
           | *edit: I forgot what year it is
        
       | major505 wrote:
       | I still buys cds. I stop to buying and for a while brougth albuns
       | in Itunes. After being tired of spotify I ended up trying to
       | download my old albuns, and find I cant donwload them anymore. So
       | I just got pissed and stated bying cds and ripping them.
       | 
       | I don't care much about the phisical copy as long as it is
       | preserved so I been buying digipaks.
        
       | deergomoo wrote:
       | While I'm not particularly interested in going back to physical
       | media for music, I have mulled over the idea of dropping
       | streaming and going back to buying albums.
       | 
       | Apart from the fact that using Apple Music is an absolutely
       | dreadful experience, anecdotally I feel like I enjoy music less
       | when I listen in the ways that streaming tries to funnel you
       | into, i.e. playlists and radio-like experiences. The music
       | becomes less of an active engagement and more just background
       | noise.
       | 
       | The sticking points I have are that the discovery aspect is huge
       | --despite my reservations about playlists, I've discovered a
       | _lot_ of bands that I really love from them just popping up
       | randomly. But also, the cost difference is a hard sell; I
       | recognise that that 's largely a function of streaming pricing
       | being pretty much unsustainable for all but the biggest artists,
       | but when for the same price as one album per month I can access a
       | huge portion of all the music in the world it's difficult to say
       | no to that.
        
       | ghusto wrote:
       | Ha! Coincides with me starting to buy CDs again, so I guess I'm
       | not the rebel I thought I was.
       | 
       | I was buying albums as FLAC, when I realised; "wait a minute,
       | what the heck am I doing?! This is more expensive than buying a
       | CD which I can rip myself to FLAC anyway". So I did _a lot_ of
       | research on the best medium to buy music in for sound quality
       | (surprise; it's not vinyl), and I'm rebuilding my collection.
       | Listening to albums is fun again :)
        
         | cyberpunk wrote:
         | Are you buying hidef audio in flac tho or flac where the source
         | is the cd after whatever compression and normalisation has been
         | applied?
         | 
         | Personally, I think hi def audio is nonsense, but I know some
         | audiophiles who swear they can tell a difference.
         | 
         | Should you be one of those maybe the extra price is worth it ;)
        
           | ghusto wrote:
           | Yeah, I concluded the same during my research into which
           | physical medium to buy. Save your money. Turns out standard
           | 16bit music CDs are all you're capable of hearing anyway.
           | 
           | Get one of those audiophiles and repeat a blind test 10 times
           | ;)
        
           | gruez wrote:
           | > Are you buying hidef audio in flac tho or flac where the
           | source is the cd after whatever compression and normalisation
           | has been applied?
           | 
           | That would only be applicable if the two versions are
           | mastered differently. Is there any reason/empirical evidence
           | that's the case? I think the reasonable default assumption is
           | that the recording studio just exports the same master for
           | flac and cds, because it saves work. If they're going off the
           | same master, then the only difference is 16 bit 44.1khz PCM
           | audio for CDs, vs 16/24/32 bit 44.1/48/96/192khz audio for
           | "hidef audio in flac" which is imperceptible.
        
         | eej71 wrote:
         | What tools do you find helpful in managing tags and missing
         | album art work?
        
           | ghusto wrote:
           | I wrote a simple script that asks some questions and uses the
           | information to write the tags after ripping and encoding. I
           | looked into looking it up automatically with CDDB, but typing
           | out a few song names by hand seems to be more reliable.
           | 
           | EDIT: This is it, in case it helps. It's not great, but it
           | gets the job done for me. I also use MusicBrainz to add cover
           | art.
           | 
           | https://pastebin.com/8mDcr178
        
           | tehnub wrote:
           | I haven't done a ton of ripping, but a fair amount, and I've
           | found Music on macOS to be pretty decent.
        
           | benoliver999 wrote:
           | I use beets
           | 
           | https://beets.io/
           | 
           | It's a bit nerdy but for large collections it's a godsend
        
           | djrogers wrote:
           | When ripping CDs myself with iTunes, I never found either to
           | be a problem... Yeah, iTunes had other issues, but it's
           | original functionality was 'Rip, Mix, Burn'.
        
           | apocalyptic0n3 wrote:
           | Not OP but I've been using MusicBrainz Picard[1] to manage
           | tags on my collection (much of it was ripped 20 years ago and
           | has traveled with me; I now use Plex and Plexamp for all
           | music listening). Picard does sonic analysis and compares it
           | against its database to find matches and then allows you to
           | preview, change, and approve new tags and album art.
           | 
           | 1: https://picard.musicbrainz.org/
        
       | petercooper wrote:
       | I'm mostly buying vinyl, but some CDs too, especially of stuff
       | that isn't on streaming services (surprisingly common with older
       | albums or those from non-US/UK countries). CDs can be poorly or
       | well mastered, but the latter really sound better than a lot of
       | the rips that have ended up on streaming services to me in a
       | blind comparison.
        
       | LiquidPolymer wrote:
       | Cassettes are also ticking up in sales and major artists like
       | Taylor Swift are releasing new material on cassette. Obviously
       | this is a very niche market but I find it fascinating that
       | physical formats are being appreciated again. I'm kind of a nut
       | about this personally as I have reel to reel, cassette, DAT,
       | minidisc, CD, and of course vinyl in my personal collection.
       | 
       | A reel to reel machine is a heavy marvel of engineering and
       | arguably sounds worse than many of the better compression
       | formats. This giant machine with moving parts, required
       | maintenance, and finicky loading is not everyone's cup of tea -
       | but I love the quality of the machine and process by which it
       | plays music.
       | 
       | Locally we have a used CD, cassette, vinyl store that is always
       | busy (Every Day Music - they actually have two very large retail
       | locations.) I love the physical media aspect for all the reasons
       | already mentioned by others in this thread. Nostalgia is also a
       | prime ingredient. So hearing that these formats are finding a
       | place in the market, however small, is good news and means more
       | fun for me.
        
         | 2ion wrote:
         | Finding the best cassette decks these days is a science unto
         | itself though. Lots of mediocre stuff getting put out to ride
         | the hype.
        
           | EVdotIO wrote:
           | Got myself a Nakamichi BX-300, and I'm kinda blown away by
           | how decent it is. With the price old 80's cassette decks go
           | for today, it seems like you could produce a fairly well
           | spec'ed machine for ~300 and have it sell. Agreed though,
           | most of the stuff produced today is rebadged white label
           | junk; go to a thrift store and pick up something second hand,
           | it's probably better.
           | 
           | Cassettes on the other hand may be another story though, I
           | don't know if the chemistry allows for old metal tapes to be
           | produced anymore.
        
         | cogman10 wrote:
         | What I don't quiet understand is why we never went to flash for
         | media distribution.
         | 
         | SD cards are dirt cheap and can hold massive amounts of data.
         | Seems weird that we can't just hand out 128MB SD cards with an
         | album on it.
        
           | banana_giraffe wrote:
           | There were a few attempts, slotMusic is one that comes to
           | mind.
           | 
           | They kind of all were doomed. Why buy a digital music player
           | that couldn't manage music as well as the cheapest MP3
           | players? These products also felt like an attempt by the
           | flash storage makers to dump older inventory since an album
           | would fit on smaller cards than most consumers wanted. Then
           | the iPod steam rolled the market. The convenience of iTunes,
           | even over poor Internet connectivity, was hard to beat.
        
           | secabeen wrote:
           | I think speed of production is also a factor. A factory can
           | stamp out CD/DVDs very quickly, flash has to be written out
           | to by a computer.
        
           | mmahemoff wrote:
           | Bill Gates called it when interviewed about the upcoming Blu-
           | Ray format in 2005. "Understand that this is the last
           | physical format there will ever be. Everything's going to be
           | streamed directly or on a hard disk. So, in this way, it's
           | even unclear how much this one counts."
        
           | clintonb wrote:
           | My guess is digital purchases became easier just before flash
           | memory was cheap enough to use for albums. Also, distribution
           | is much simpler, and the labels can get more profit due to
           | decreased manufacturing costs.
        
             | ryanmcbride wrote:
             | This is my thought too. By the time SD cards were cheap and
             | ubiquitous, digital music already had a huge foothold, and
             | has the convenience of not worrying about losing the SD
             | card.
        
           | dehrmann wrote:
           | iPods became big around 2003. Back then, 128 MB of flash
           | would cost you $40[1]. This was why HDD-backed mp3 players
           | were so revolutionary for the time--flash wasn't viable, yet.
           | By the time flash got cheap enough, portable mp3 players were
           | so established that the time for physical media for audio had
           | mostly passed.
           | 
           | 1: https://web.archive.org/web/20030520151144/http://www.newe
           | gg...
        
             | hadlock wrote:
             | Yep, the reason why the OG iPod was shaped/sized the way it
             | was, is due to the form factor of commodity laptop hard
             | drives. I forget, but I think the OG iPod had a firewire
             | connector (sort of the equivalent of today's Thunderbolt
             | 3/4), which allowed the owner to use the iPod as a portable
             | hard drive. Most macs had at least one firewire port.
        
               | prpl wrote:
               | 2nd and 3rd gen too. I still have a 3rd gen
        
               | [deleted]
        
           | acomjean wrote:
           | Isn't that what the nintendo switch is doing?
        
           | prpl wrote:
           | IMO - collectibility is inversely proportional to media and
           | packaging size.
           | 
           | That said, I think the Switch gets it right. If everybody was
           | handing out microSD cards you'd have a nightmare managing
           | those
        
           | bluedino wrote:
           | Sony would want to use their proprietary Memory Stick format
        
       | willcipriano wrote:
       | I buy CD's on Bandcamp but leave them in the wrapping since they
       | also give you a flac copy. I imagine others do the same.
        
         | mostlysimilar wrote:
         | Bandcamp was recently bought by Epic Games. Do you happen to
         | know of an alternative of the same quality?
        
           | willcipriano wrote:
           | I do not. I listen to all my music through Plex so I'll
           | probably go back to ripping CD's and finding stuff on the
           | open seas at the first sign of funny business. The nice thing
           | about being able to download your content is Bandcamp can
           | close and I still have what I paid for.
        
           | tehnub wrote:
           | Is there something wrong with Epic?
        
             | henriquecm8 wrote:
             | I don't if there's something specific, but there's a
             | pattern of companies getting bought than after a year or
             | two, your favorite thing about the platform gets remove or
             | put behind a paywall. It might not happen, but I wouldn't
             | hold my breath.
        
               | theandrewbailey wrote:
               | My favorite thing about Bandcamp is buying albums and
               | downloading them. That's already behind a paywall by
               | definition.
        
       | daenz wrote:
       | [x] Works on relatively low tech hardware       [x] Doesn't
       | require internet connection       [x] Can't be removed from your
       | possession for violating ToS       [x] Can be easily backed up
        
         | Tenoke wrote:
         | All of the above is true for Bandcamp except needing an
         | internet connection initially but I don't imagine that's such a
         | limiting factor. There's still CD sales going on there so the
         | above doesn't explain it completely and I imagine the
         | nostalgia, having a physical item, contrarianism etc. have a
         | bigger hand in the resurgence.
        
       | at_a_remove wrote:
       | Compounded by my lateness to the smartphone world, I feel
       | hopelessly out of touch, but I have finally decided to start
       | ripping a lot of my fairly hefty CD collection in hopes of
       | playing them in my car, but many things I once thought true have
       | mutated over time:
       | 
       | - Headphone jacks disappearing from phones
       | 
       | - iPhones in general, it seems like a lot of work just to get
       | some random file _onto_ the damned thing
       | 
       | - Head units don't recognize .m3u playlists (what?!)
       | 
       | Overall, it seems the happy path is just to subscribe to some
       | music service and like whatever it is they have on ("played at a
       | reasonable volume," as the Pictures for Sad Children bit goes).
       | However, I already have the radio for the "shut up and like what
       | we feed you" option.
       | 
       | We're swimming upstream a bit here, liking CDs.
        
         | charcircuit wrote:
         | >Headphone jacks disappearing from phones
         | 
         | For most phones it just got merged into the USB C port. It's
         | the same thing, but with a different connector except USB C
         | also supports digital audio output too instead of just analog.
        
       | siskiyou wrote:
       | I feel very fortunate to have grown up before streaming (ie,
       | music you can't own). I collected about 800 CDs that I still have
       | and listen to, and about 1200 LPs mostly given to me by people
       | getting out of vinyl. I love the big artwork of LPs, and the
       | ritual of cleaning and playing them, many of which are
       | unavailable online. I ripped most of the CDs so I can avoid
       | losses due to damage and listen on any device. I pay zero dollars
       | to streaming services, nothing paid to Apple, and nothing
       | supporting Joe Rogan. The down side to this approach is mostly
       | just space for storage.
        
         | rmah wrote:
         | I sorta feel the same way as you as I spent a lot of money on
         | music when I was younger.
         | 
         | But, that said, those 800 CD's and 1200 LP's cost you around
         | 800 * $15 + 1200 * $10 = $24000. That's enough to pay for 200
         | years of streaming at $10/mo. And with streaming, you'll get
         | 1000x more content to choose from. So I kind understand the
         | appeal for the younger crowd.
        
           | siskiyou wrote:
           | I understand too. However I didn't pay for a huge portion of
           | those LPs, because people gave them away by the box load,
           | including a long time subscriber of the Capitol Records club
           | who didn't play them. I lucked out and I'd rather keep
           | playing them than subscribe to anything.
        
       | pjmlp wrote:
       | I am no fan of Spotify and similar services, I keep buying CDs
       | and ripping them into MP3.
        
       | paulsmith wrote:
       | I honestly thought from the headline before clicking through that
       | this was referring to the other CDs, "certificates of deposit",
       | which, I imagine, may be more in-demand due to rising interest
       | rates.
        
       | midnightclubbed wrote:
       | Adele had a huge album launch last year, and sold very well on
       | vinyl and CD. That one album may account for the entire growth.
       | Maybe her fanbase are of the right age/demo to enjoy or to be
       | nostalgic for physical media, maybe a lot of copies bought as
       | gifts... Between that big launch and vinyl pressing plant supply
       | issues (Covid supply chain issues and huge orders for two album
       | releases) people who want the physical object may have moved from
       | vinyl to CD editions.
       | 
       | Anecdotally I pulled my CD collection out of retirement for use
       | in my home office during Covid. There's something about 'putting
       | on' a cd/record that streaming just does not do. A couple of
       | weeks ago I caved and bought a vintage technics record player
       | (late to the bandwagon), the price of vinyl is shocking compared
       | to CD - $30+ for a 28g new release/reissue and quality used
       | records are easily $20+. Feels like when I was a teenager and
       | carefully deciding what I could afford that week/month and then
       | playing it to destruction.
        
         | amerkhalid wrote:
         | I never gave up on CDs or physical books. Though I use Kindle
         | and a few years ago I subscribed to Google Music and stopped
         | buying new CDs.
         | 
         | Lately, it is very rare that people discuss music. So recently,
         | I moved my CD (& books) collection to living room and it has
         | been good way to start conversations about music. Friends scan
         | through the collection, sometimes, they borrow them. Album art
         | is another thing that is fun to look at together. It feels a
         | lot more social than sharing music on Facebook.
         | 
         | My only issue is I don't have a CD player anymore except in the
         | car.
         | 
         | (Same thing with books, any book I buy on Kindle, I assume it
         | is a rental. If I really like the book, then I get a paper
         | copy.)
        
           | nesky wrote:
           | I purchase the physical books as well ones I bought on kindle
           | or audiobooks that I think will age well, want to read again
           | or want my kids to peruse at some point. Scanning a library
           | on a kindle just isn't the same.
        
           | brimble wrote:
           | Physical presence of media in one's space is underrated. The
           | cost (in space, being a pain in the ass to move, et c.) is
           | high but there _are_ significant benefits.
        
           | midnightclubbed wrote:
           | Really nice used CD players are super cheap right now. Pick a
           | solid model which still has rubber belts available for it and
           | you should be golden:)
        
             | cyberpunk wrote:
             | Reccommend the arcam cd95 unless you're going for some
             | kinda dj setup then cdj's I guess.
        
             | spatley wrote:
             | @midnightclubbed love to hear about some models that you
             | think are worth looking for.
        
               | midnightclubbed wrote:
               | I use a Onkyo DXC390 CD player/changer (going strong
               | after 3 years or so). Still available to buy new (albeit
               | at a ridiculously inflated price) but should be available
               | for ~ $100 used. DAC sounds fine to me though speakers
               | but I have a discrete DAC/amp for headphone listening,
               | although honestly I can't tell the difference between
               | that and the CD player headphone socket.
               | 
               | I used a Yamaha CDX-450 for years, although I dint think
               | it had digital outputs. Was built solidly. Dove deep down
               | the Sony megachanger rabbit hole but never pulled the
               | trigger on getting one - have a huge following though and
               | parts/advice are readily available.
        
         | bryans wrote:
         | > Adele had a huge album launch last year, and sold very well
         | on vinyl and CD. That one album may account for the entire
         | growth.
         | 
         | That doesn't hold up under any scrutiny. Adele's album sold
         | around ~950,000 physical copies in 2021 in the US. The average
         | CD price is $15, and that particular album has been on sale
         | since the release, so the absolute maximum that it could
         | contribute to an "unusual" influx of CD sales is $15 million --
         | and that's very generously pretending 100% of sales were CDs
         | and that she didn't sell any copies of any albums in 2020. That
         | leaves a minimum of an $85 million (and more realistically >$93
         | million) increase that can't be attributed to a shift in
         | audience demographics for the year's top seller.
         | 
         | > Between that big launch and vinyl pressing plant supply
         | issues (Covid supply chain issues and huge orders for two album
         | releases) people who want the physical object may have moved
         | from vinyl to CD editions.
         | 
         | Vinyl sales doubled in 2021 and outpaced CDs, and growth
         | actually increased throughout 2021, as roughly ~60% of the
         | sales took place in the second half of the year.
         | 
         | https://thevinylfactory.com/news/us-vinyl-sales-2021-reach-t...
        
         | agumonkey wrote:
         | The ritual aspect is heard in many mouths :)
         | 
         | There's a tiny glimpse of magic of seeing the apparatus that
         | turns physical storage into music. Even a CD drive gives you
         | some mechanical hints of things happening. Best part is when
         | you have an open drive mechanism :)
        
           | midnightclubbed wrote:
           | For me the ritual of deliberately choosing what I want to
           | listen to from a somewhat limited/curated selection of music
           | is the magic. Although seeing a diamond rubbing over a piece
           | of plastic and knowing that's how the sound is made is pretty
           | cool too...
        
       | kleer001 wrote:
       | By about 20% if anyone's interested in the actual magnitude
        
       | natdempk wrote:
       | Worth noting that CD sales as a percent of total revenue fell
       | from 4.0% to 3.9%, continuing the trend relative to the whole
       | there.
       | 
       | From: https://www.riaa.com/u-s-sales-database/
        
         | jandrese wrote:
         | It is also worth noting that people spent more on Vinyl than
         | they did on CDs last year. CDs are a fairly small niche now.
         | 
         | https://www.musicbusinessworldwide.com/us-music-fans-spent-m...
        
           | goosedragons wrote:
           | Doesn't that have more to do with Vinyl being basically a
           | collectors format with much higher MSRPs per album than CD?
           | In unit sales CD still sells more.
        
             | luhn wrote:
             | No, vinyl is the majority of physical sales by unit now in
             | the US.
             | 
             | > According to data from the MRC and Billboard, 38.3 per
             | cent of all album sales in the country last year were in
             | vinyl format, while it accounted over 50 per cent of all
             | physical album sales (41.72 million sales out of a total of
             | 82.79 million).
             | 
             | https://www.nme.com/news/music/vinyl-albums-outsold-cds-
             | in-u...
             | 
             | Billboard source (paywalled):
             | https://www.billboard.com/pro/vinyl-sales-new-record-past-
             | cd...
        
               | [deleted]
        
               | ghaff wrote:
               | I have no interest in going back to vinyl and I don't
               | have most of my old albums any longer. But if you want
               | retro physicality of your music medium, vinyl probably
               | has a lot more appeal than the alternatives. I do buy CDs
               | from time to time if they're as cheap or cheaper than
               | MP3s (or they're something oddball I can't buy
               | digitally). But I generally then just rip them and put
               | the physical CD in a box in the attic.
        
               | BolexNOLA wrote:
               | Holy hell 38.3% of ALL album sales? I get people mostly
               | but individual songs but I would've never guessed almost
               | 40%.
        
         | randcraw wrote:
         | ...while total revenue of all media formats grew from 12.7B to
         | 15.0B. CD revenue rose from 505.9M to 584.2M, but actually lost
         | 0.1% of market share.
         | 
         | The big winners of market share among formats were LPs -- up
         | from 5.3% to 6.9%, and on-demand streaming (with ads) -- up
         | from 9.9% to 11.7%.
         | 
         | (Revenues and percentages are in US dollars after adjustment
         | for inflation.)
        
       | modzu wrote:
       | i had to look up "CD"
        
       | dpcx wrote:
       | Damn Millenials, ruining the digital music industry! /s
        
       | mthwl wrote:
       | I wrote a bit recently about why I still collect music on CDs.
       | Here are my 3 reasons, which echo a lot of the comments:
       | 
       | 1. To Support the Artist, 2. To Own the Music, 3. To Collect
       | Artifacts (which is fun)
       | 
       | I also found a few recent attempts at creating new physical music
       | formats, but most of them require Internet connectivity and are
       | essentially cloud services that have physical access tokens :( I
       | ended up just lamenting that we never got the Sony MiniDisc
       | revolution that we all deserved.
       | 
       | The post is here: https://www.matthewhowell.net/notes/2022/on-
       | collecting-music...
        
         | BolexNOLA wrote:
         | I like that you mention "collecting artifacts." I have a pretty
         | extensive video game OST vinyl collection. The first thing I do
         | when one comes in the mail is open it up, deep clean the
         | record, drop it on the record player, and spin it. But while
         | it's playing, I actually have the audio routed through a
         | recorder capturing it as 96kHz/24bit wav.
         | 
         | I have so far archived every video game vinyl I have and I've
         | slowly doing the rest of my vinyl collection. It's been a
         | really fun project, and like you said with "artifacts," I feel
         | like I've got my own little museum of sorts going on. Plus it's
         | fun to cut them into sides (not tracks), compress into 48kHz
         | wav, FLAC, and mp3, add the album art, and get them on my phone
         | and home server. So I basically can take my vinyl anywhere I
         | go!
         | 
         | Is it the most practical exercise? Of course not. But it's
         | really fun in its own way. I just like archive diving a lot
         | given my history background, so making my own archive scratches
         | a similar itch I guess.
        
           | rusk wrote:
           | I've been thinking of doing something myself. Any tips on the
           | recording end of things? Is routing to a laptop good enough?
           | Do computers even have stereo line in anymore ...
        
         | realPubkey wrote:
         | For me, collection things that you do not really need, is just
         | a waste of scarce resources.
        
           | nicky0 wrote:
           | One could say that living at all is a waste of scarce
           | resources.
        
             | BolexNOLA wrote:
             | Honestly he's just being edgelord trying to yuck other
             | people's yum.
        
           | BolexNOLA wrote:
           | So you have no hobbies that are non-essential?
        
       | ghastmaster wrote:
       | The volume of CD sales grew compared to 2020, but was less than
       | the volume from 2019. If you look at the data chart from the link
       | in the article (https://www.riaa.com/u-s-sales-database/) you can
       | see the trend is still down. The revenue per cd in 2019 = $13.28,
       | 2020 = $15.29, 2021 = $12.54.
       | 
       | Combined 2018/9 sales totaled 99.3M units sold vs combined 2020/1
       | 78.2M units sold. There was a huge drop in 2020. Is it safe to
       | assume that sales not done in 2020 were done in 2021?
        
       | emkoemko wrote:
       | is this inflation? they don't mention sales volume increase just
       | profit?
        
       | durpleDrank wrote:
       | When the RIAA went after Youtube-dl I realized I was digging my
       | own grave supporting streaming sites. Used CDs, Bandcamp, Flac.
       | Anything but streaming sites where the RIAA gets money.
        
       | criddell wrote:
       | One of my kids got into vinyl a few years ago and that triggered
       | me to get my CD collection out of the attic and I started buying
       | CDs again. I really enjoy listening to entire albums.
       | 
       | Lately though, I've been using Apple Music because I got a free
       | trial and found I really like their spatial audio and ATMOS
       | tracks. Just about everything I stream is lossless and most that
       | I listen to are higher than CD quality.
       | 
       | The big question is (ignoring spatial audio), can I tell a
       | difference between 16 bit / 44 kHz (CD) and 24 bit / 192 kHz
       | (studio master)? The answer seems to be maybe. I've tried A-B
       | tests where I switch between the two and I can never notice any
       | differences. But after listening to an entire album I can often
       | say that the album was CD or studio master quality. I wonder if
       | maybe the two formats are mixed differently?
       | 
       | The CD format is trapped in amber and the world is moving on
       | (esp. with spatial audio) and I think that's too bad for people
       | who like to buy music.
        
         | aidenn0 wrote:
         | No, you cannot tell the difference between 16/44 and 24/192,
         | unless the 24/192 has enough high frequency content to cause
         | non-linear distortions in your speakers.
         | 
         | 24/192 makes sense for recording because the extra bits give
         | you more headroom to prevent clipping and the higher sampling
         | rate means you can use less aggressive analog low-pass filters
         | on your input.
         | 
         | I should also note that your playback solution likely has
         | higher THD+N than the floor imposed by 16 bits. 16 bits implies
         | a noise floor of -96dB which would be a THD+N of about 0.002%.
         | Your playback equipment is probably 11-14 bits equivalent for
         | the noise floor (-66 to -84dB). With 16 bits of depth you
         | probably won't even be able to tell between a properly and
         | improperly dithered CD that was normalized before down-
         | sampling.
         | 
         | I agree that spatial audio is long overdue. IMO, Ambisonics had
         | the right idea in the 1970s, though it was at least 20 years to
         | early for actual adoption.
        
         | digisign wrote:
         | I don't find the extra resolution helps at all at playback
         | time, although I have older ears now. What it significant is a
         | quality master in the first place. With that I downsample to
         | 16/48, I personally can't tell the difference at that point
         | from higher-res.
         | 
         | For example, I've made mp3/opus from a quality remaster, that
         | sound better than the 80s CD, simply because the new master was
         | scanned on better equipment.
        
         | TedDoesntTalk wrote:
        
         | neverartful wrote:
         | > get my CD collection out of the attic
         | 
         | Yes, please get your CDs out of the attic. Same is true for
         | your photographs, cameras, paintings, and many other things.
        
         | pier25 wrote:
         | > _can I tell a difference between 16 bit / 44 kHz (CD) and 24
         | bit / 192 kHz (studio master)?_
         | 
         | Even under perfect listening conditions (which are very rare)
         | 99.99% of people won't be able to tell the difference.
         | 
         | The vast majority of people can't tell the difference between a
         | 44.1Khz/16 bits .wav and a 128kbps MP3.
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | boc wrote:
           | That's not true. If you said 320kbps MP3 then maybe I'd
           | agree. 128 sounds crushed as hell on most decent setups.
        
           | lostgame wrote:
           | >> The vast majority of people can't tell the difference
           | between a 44.1Khz/16 bits .wav and a 128kbps MP3.
           | 
           | ...are you _kidding_? I think _most_ people could easily tell
           | the difference between a CD and a _128kbps_ MP3 if asked to
           | listen to it hard enough. That, or play it in a club loud
           | enough - and watch everyone cringe.
           | 
           | As the other commenter said - 320kbps - alright, sure. But
           | 128kbps? Come _on_.
        
         | saila wrote:
         | > The big question is (ignoring spatial audio), can I tell a
         | difference between 16 bit / 44 kHz (CD) and 24 bit / 192 kHz
         | (studio master)?
         | 
         | Unless there's something different about the mix (as you note),
         | it's unlikely that most people in most circumstances could hear
         | a meaningful difference.
         | 
         | If someone has high end equipment & speakers and the speakers
         | are placed correctly in an ideal room _or_ if you 've got high
         | end headphones, then maybe, but otherwise I'm skeptical.
        
         | IYasha wrote:
         | Maybe it's just better mastering, but I mostly hear the
         | difference between 44 and 48KHz. And because of this, I'd love
         | to see more DVD audio selling too :)
        
       | unethical_ban wrote:
       | I wonder if that is due to concerts and local artists earning
       | money at shows, or if it is a broader trend. Story of one: I have
       | been buying physical media from Bandcamp for albums that I like
       | and that offer it. Bandcamp is so cool! Actually owning the
       | music, even if digitally, is a comforting feeling.
        
         | sdevonoes wrote:
         | For me at least the reason is:
         | 
         | - with a subscription model (e.g., Spotify) I enjoy the music
         | as long as a) I keep paying, and b) the supplier keeps
         | supplying it
         | 
         | - with a "buy a CD" model, I own the music forever. I can copy
         | it in another CD to preserve it if needed. I don't have to
         | worry about Spotify or Apple Music being up/down or if they
         | even increase their base price or not
        
       | stjohnswarts wrote:
       | Polycarbonate is the new vinyl. Let the dynamic range wars
       | reignite!
        
       | beardyw wrote:
       | >physical music is enjoying a resurgence
       | 
       | CDs are the children of floppy disks, not vinyl. They are digital
       | (it's in the name). Vinyl is actually physical beyond bits and
       | bytes.
        
         | aidenn0 wrote:
         | CDs are recorded in a spiral (like a record) not in concentric
         | rings (like a floppy).
        
         | dsr_ wrote:
         | What are you implying by "Vinyl is actually physical beyond
         | bits and bytes"?
         | 
         | Are you trying to say "vinyl is analog"? Because that's true.
         | 
         | Are you trying to say "the analog vinyl is superior to a CD
         | prepared from the same mix"? That's demonstrably incorrect.
         | 
         | Are you trying to say "the vinyl mixes are often superior to
         | the CD mixes"? That's often true.
        
           | uhtred wrote:
           | Maybe they are not implying anything?
        
             | dsr_ wrote:
             | Everything in the universe is either mass or energy (and
             | mass is energy), so making claims about vinyl being
             | "physical" doesn't need to be said. I assume they had a
             | point to make, and I'm hoping that they will make it more
             | clearly.
        
               | beardyw wrote:
               | Sorry. I was just saying that a CD is a digital
               | representation of sound. If you had a CD with a document
               | on it you wouldn't call it a physical copy.
               | 
               | However on a vinyl record the sound is physically
               | represented in the grooves. It is as near to a physical
               | representation of sound as you could get. Like a physical
               | document is on paper.
               | 
               | I have no bias. I listen happily to streaming.
        
         | Jyaif wrote:
         | > They are digital (it's in the name)
         | 
         | CD stands for "compact disc"
        
         | ryanmcbride wrote:
         | A CD is a physical medium for digital music. I think the
         | distinction between a CD and a zip file is pretty clear.
        
       | TazeTSchnitzel wrote:
       | I hope CD never dies. It's a lossless, DRM-free physical format.
       | There's nothing like it.
        
         | adamredwoods wrote:
         | Listening to cymbals is much better on a CD than streaming.
        
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