[HN Gopher] uBlock Origin becomes top addon on Firefox
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       uBlock Origin becomes top addon on Firefox
        
       Author : nixcraft
       Score  : 726 points
       Date   : 2022-03-11 15:38 UTC (7 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (addons.mozilla.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (addons.mozilla.org)
        
       | t8e56vd4ih wrote:
       | just installed it today on my father's partner's laptop.
       | 
       | in my opinion ublock origin is by now an integral part of the
       | internet infrastructure.
       | 
       | it's also the only piece of software which I consistently install
       | on every platform I use (Linux, Windows, MacOS, Android, iOS).
       | 
       | Raymond deserves some sort of Nobel prize or something for this.
       | The internet is not usable for me without it.
        
         | chrizel wrote:
         | How do you install uBlock Origin on iOS?
        
           | 2-718-281-828 wrote:
           | damn, you're right. I repressed that. I would, though!
        
           | Nextgrid wrote:
           | Try AdGuard - not as good as uBlock but it's the best you can
           | do on iOS given API limitations.
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | wnevets wrote:
       | It doesn't JUST block ads, it also blocks malware and other
       | garbage. IMO Its not safe to browse the modern web without it
        
       | dotcoma wrote:
       | The most popular extension, and the 2nd most popular, just like
       | the 6th, 7th, 9th and 10th most popular, are ad-blockers.
       | 
       | I guess it's only marketers that love targeted ads...
        
         | matheusmoreira wrote:
         | Only marketers love ads in general. To the rest of us, it's
         | just annoying noise, to be filtered.
        
           | openknot wrote:
           | From an older submission to Hacker News: "Appreciate
           | marketing. It seems like bullshit, but it's bullshit I don't
           | want to have to do. I'm glad someone else is doing it, I'm
           | sincerely grateful for their efforts." [0]
           | 
           | Software development is important, but marketing is also
           | important, and it actually works. Most companies can't
           | survive without effective marketing.
           | 
           | [0] https://devjac.dev/posts/2021-05-29-my-personal-creed-of-
           | emp...
        
             | matheusmoreira wrote:
             | > Appreciate marketing. It seems like bullshit, but it's
             | bullshit I don't want to have to do.
             | 
             | Bullshit? To me it seems more like mind rape when a bunch
             | of corporate ideas and brands are suddenly and forcibly
             | injected into my mind. I didn't ask for it, I didn't
             | consent to it. We don't tolerate it when people violate our
             | bodies, so why is it okay to violate our minds? They "need"
             | it to make money, so it's okay?
             | 
             | If I want to see products, I'll ask for it. I'll open the
             | store app. Until that time, they better keep their
             | marketing to themselves or I'll do everything in my power
             | to defend myself. That's what software like uBlock Origin
             | is: self-defense against hostile megacorporations who want
             | to exploit you in every way possible.
        
               | bosie wrote:
               | Aren't you consenting to it when you are browsing the
               | web? If it bothers me so much ("mind rape") and I know a
               | website has ads, why would I go there?
        
               | matheusmoreira wrote:
               | > Aren't you consenting to it when you are browsing the
               | web?
               | 
               | No.
               | 
               | > If it bothers me so much ("mind rape") and I know a
               | website has ads, why would I go there?
               | 
               | Websites don't have "99% advertising 1% content" warnings
               | to help me decide before I click a link.
               | 
               | Also, there is no reason to avoid going anywhere these
               | days because uBlock Origin exists.
        
               | akomtu wrote:
               | It's the other way around: when advertisers and website
               | owners decide to leverage the internet, the largest
               | distribution channel in the world at no expense to them,
               | agree to the "public square" terms. If they dont like the
               | terms, they can always build their own distribution
               | channel and set whatever rules they like. Advertisers are
               | the real freeloaders here.
        
               | bosie wrote:
               | I don't think distribution channel can be ad-free as
               | such, let alone claiming every page on the internet needs
               | to agree to this. Would be great if I can get access to
               | superb resources without paying for them but that is not
               | going to happen, hence ads. If you don't like ads (or
               | block them), how come you are not a freeloader?
        
               | matheusmoreira wrote:
               | > If you don't like ads (or block them), how come you are
               | not a freeloader?
               | 
               | They sent us the web page for free. It's their choice,
               | they don't get to shame us for it.
               | 
               | They did that because they assumed we'd look at the ads.
               | The chance that this assumption would turn out to be
               | false was always there. There's just no way they didn't
               | know about this risk.
               | 
               | What's happening is we don't want to look at this noise.
               | We're not gonna do it. They need to accept that and move
               | on instead of shaming us for invalidating the silly
               | assumptions their business model is based on. Where does
               | it say we're obligated to "give back" in exchange for
               | their "free" content? That's just an idea they made up.
               | They got it into their minds that we are "supposed" to
               | pay them back by viewing ads when we are under exactly
               | zero obligation to do so. They are not entitled to our
               | attention.
        
               | ssklash wrote:
               | I agree 100%. If your company can't survive without
               | exploiting human psychology and contributing to a
               | surveillance infrastructure and monetization scheme,
               | good. Companies survived for centuries without internet
               | ads, tracking, targeting, etc. Just because you can take
               | advantage of technological methods and mental
               | vulnerabilities to pimp your product without the consent
               | of the target, doesn't mean you should.
        
               | openknot wrote:
               | > "Companies survived for centuries without internet ads,
               | tracking, targeting, etc."
               | 
               | As far back as ancient Rome, vendors still used
               | advertising and marketing. This included word-of-mouth
               | advertisements and billboards (such as in Pompeii before
               | the volcanic eruption). [0]
               | 
               | In the 1900s, newspaper advertising was a major source of
               | advertising. Now that fewer people read print newspapers,
               | advertising has shifted to internet ads and email
               | newsletter ads.
               | 
               | Technology evolves, and marketing evolves to keep up.
               | Even non-profits have significant marketing investments
               | today. I encourage you to actually try to run an
               | organization, for-profit or non-profit, and try to
               | sustainably achieve the mission while rigidly adhering to
               | the ideal that companies shouldn't use marketing.
               | 
               | [0] https://www.jstor.org/stable/pdf/4387300.pdf
        
               | carapace wrote:
               | I was having this argument a couple of weeks ago. (
               | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30418664 ) cut-n-
               | pasting from there:
               | 
               | Organic word-of-mouth referrals and recommendations are
               | waaaaaay more effective than any other form of marketing.
               | If you can't develop and sustain word-of-mouth
               | organically then you have to use other less efficient and
               | more coercive means. There are marketplaces that operate
               | efficiently on word of mouth alone. E.g., there are the
               | various "black" markets. There was no appreciable change
               | in availability, quality, or price before and after pot
               | legalization, for example. The high end of most services
               | and products doesn't need to market, they're "saturated"
               | by word-of-mouth alone.
               | 
               | - - - -
               | 
               | Going further, you can trace the historical rise of
               | modern marketing directly from military propaganda
               | techniques. (
               | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Bernays#World_War_I
               | )
        
               | matheusmoreira wrote:
               | > This included word-of-mouth advertisements
               | 
               | This is not really advertising. It's more like a
               | conversation. It's real people talking about their
               | experiences. Advertising is when some phony who's on the
               | corporation's payroll comes to you unsolicited and starts
               | overstating the positives and downplaying the negatives.
        
               | burnished wrote:
               | There is two things going on here that are getting lumped
               | under the same umbrella. 1) Modern marketing that uses a
               | deep understanding of psychology to treat people as a
               | series of levers to be pressed in order to get a certain
               | reaction. 2) Service discovery. This can be really
               | valuable. Just imagine you made something you were truly
               | proud of and thought would bring value to others lives,
               | or of something you already think is incredible. Finding
               | out about it brought you value.
               | 
               | These two things both get called advertising but we have
               | (quite reasonably) different feelings about them.
        
               | matheusmoreira wrote:
               | > Service discovery
               | 
               | I don't consider this advertising either. If there is a
               | list of services somewhere and people consult it
               | voluntarily, then it's not really advertising, it's
               | information. People are informing themselves about what's
               | available.
               | 
               | For example, I don't consider an online store to be
               | advertising. The whole reason I went there is to see
               | products, so it's totally fine when products are shown.
               | It becomes unethical when they start shoving products in
               | my face everywhere I go.
        
               | Melatonic wrote:
               | The problem is that in order for you to hear about a
               | product probably a lot of other people need to first. Not
               | a huge fan of advertising myself but to call it 'mind
               | rape' seems a bit over the top.....
        
             | hn_version_0023 wrote:
             | Making a science out of convincing people to buy things
             | they don't need is not only not _important_ , it's
             | fundamentally dishonest. No amount of apologies or hand
             | waving will change that fact. Marketing is a pox on the
             | human mind that we'd all be better off without.
        
               | Melatonic wrote:
               | I don't think it is marketing as a concept that is the
               | problem - it is that we are forced to have it everywhere.
               | There is no choice.
               | 
               | I think a much healthier relationship would be a system
               | where you can choose to dedicate some of your time and
               | preferences to marketing. Instead of companies trying to
               | trick you into clicking their advertisement they would
               | need to create compelling and entertaining advertisements
               | for stuff you might actually want. What I am envisioning
               | is basically something like an app or channel you might
               | willing give some type of inputs (say, for example, you
               | are looking for a new car - you could input some data
               | about your preferences) and then advertisers would have
               | to compete to show off the best product. You could choose
               | to dedicate 0 of your time or X amount of minutes.
               | 
               | Some of the products I actually use and like the best
               | also have the best (in terms of entertainment) marketing
               | - if someone can make me laugh with a 10 second video AND
               | show off a well designed product at the same time then I
               | generally take that as a positive. But the advertisement
               | needs to be providing entertainment value on its own.
        
               | openknot wrote:
               | >"Marketing is a pox on the human mind that we'd all be
               | better off without."
               | 
               | If you work, marketing pays part of your salary. A
               | company can't survive without it.
               | 
               | Marketing includes the "Who's hiring?" threads on the
               | front page; word of mouth recommendations; and job
               | postings on LinkedIn. If you've found a job that pays
               | your bills, marketing played a role.
        
               | hn_version_0023 wrote:
               | You pay your bookie a vig too?
               | 
               | The fact that marketing exists isn't something I'm
               | debating. The fact it has wormed its way into all aspects
               | of life is a sign that we lead sick lives, to me.
        
               | openknot wrote:
               | Your point, as written, was: "Marketing is a pox on the
               | human mind that we'd all be better off without." A
               | reasonable response is that marketing has likely directly
               | benefited your life.
        
               | hn_version_0023 wrote:
               | Agreed, it surely has benefited my life. That benefit
               | doesn't seem to outweigh, in my mind, the dishonesty
               | pervasive in marketing, however.
               | 
               | A thing can benefit me and still be a net drag on
               | humanity. I'll continue to maintain that "the human mind
               | would be better off without" marketing.
        
             | AlexandrB wrote:
             | I don't think most marketers are evil, but as an industry
             | marketing includes a lot of bad actors and boundary pushers
             | that actively make the internet worse for financial gain.
             | As a result I think it's fair for an individual to have an
             | adversarial stance with "marketing" even if your employer's
             | marketing department is pretty benign and helpful.
        
         | layer8 wrote:
         | Or maybe it's just the lack of targeted-ad-injection plugins.
         | ;)
        
         | wongarsu wrote:
         | I like targeted ads (if I ignore the general threats to privacy
         | and democracy they pose). There are certainly ads I've enjoyed
         | seeing, mostly ads for specialized software, tools or machinery
         | that I wouldn't have known about if not for targeted ads.
         | 
         | I still hate ads. Youtube has maybe five interesting, relevant
         | ads a month it can show me, and I'm willing to see each one
         | maybe twice. That's ten ads a month. But Youtube has hundreds
         | of ad slots to fill every month if they want to show me two
         | pre-roll ads before each video and a couple within the video.
         | Those slots have to be filled with something, and the few
         | relevant ads mostly get drowned by the garbage. Other platforms
         | have the same problem.
         | 
         | Ads on the internet have fallen to the tragedy of the commons.
         | If there was just a couple of them they would be more relevant
         | and less distracting, but every advertiser and platform is
         | incentivized to increase the number of ads without end, leading
         | to where we are now.
        
           | scarface74 wrote:
           | If I listen to a software engineering podcast, isn't
           | "targeting" by the fact that I might be a software engineer
           | good enough? The same is true for websites I visit. If I go
           | to Mens Health, that's a huge signal to what I'm interested
           | in.
        
         | passivate wrote:
         | >I guess it's only marketers that love targeted ads...
         | 
         | That maybe, but it might be hypocritical if you're working at a
         | private business that generates sales via ads, which in effect
         | pay your salary. I'm not against ads, so I wouldn't use an ad-
         | blocker on principle, I would just avoid visiting sites that
         | show excessive ads.
        
         | dvtrn wrote:
         | I sometimes wonder if adtech devs also use adblockers.
        
           | vmaurin wrote:
           | I have worked in the ad industry for 10+ years. Firefox,
           | strict mode but no ad blocker for web. What I would not do
           | though, is using an android or ios phone (or anykind of
           | smartphone where I don't know what the system nor the
           | application do). I am not sure that people realize how many
           | power and data are used on these phones, for things totally
           | unrelated to their personal usage
        
             | hn_version_0023 wrote:
             | So you don't use a smartphone at all? Or am I
             | misunderstanding?
        
             | yjftsjthsd-h wrote:
             | Why not just use an Android phone with Firefox and the same
             | exact settings that you use on desktop?
        
           | agamentium wrote:
           | When I worked in adtech I absolutely did. I think it was
           | fairly common at the company.
        
           | irrational wrote:
           | I'm a web developer, but I use noscript, despite the sites I
           | work on relying on JavaScript and the business not allowing
           | us to make them work without scripting enabled.
        
           | runjake wrote:
           | It is a well-known fact they do.
           | 
           | This is why adtech has gotten craftier about ads, and
           | adblockers have had to respond accordingly.
        
             | onemoresoop wrote:
             | That case is to thwart adblockers abilities to block ads. I
             | think the OP's question was more rhetorical, as in they
             | don't eat their own dog food type of thing.
        
         | Corrado wrote:
         | You know, I don't mind advertisements that are really targeted
         | and would enrich my life in some way. I use Ublock Origin (and
         | others) everywhere I can and it's great. However, there are
         | some things that I want to be told about or update on. The
         | latest superhero movie? Yes, please. A new keyboard or update
         | for my car? Yes, please. A valentines idea for my wife? Yes,
         | please!
         | 
         | The problem is that I (almost) never get these ads. Most of the
         | things shoved into my face are something that I would NEVER
         | purchase or recommend to others. The same truck commercial 100
         | times? Nope. Alcohol commercial? Nope. Cable sports package?
         | Never.
         | 
         | I was really hopeful that Google, with all of their knowledge
         | about me (and they have a TON of it!) would be able to target
         | advertisements that I might like. Yet, YouTube is chock full of
         | Truck, Beer, and Football commercials; I guess just because I'm
         | a middle aged man and that's what "we" like.
         | 
         | So, I'm forced into blocking everything I can, whenever and
         | wherever I can. The Ad companies are really doing this to
         | themselves. If they were better at their job I wouldn't even
         | know they existed. As it stands, I get bombarded with so much
         | unwanted things that I actively hate the things they spew at
         | me. I will NEVER buy the products that they are advertising;
         | even if it did fit my personality or needs.
        
         | jstx1 wrote:
         | Right but what are they really competing with for those top
         | spots? Most other functionality comes built into the browser
         | these days.
        
       | Exendroinient00 wrote:
       | Surprisingly the adtech is by far the profitable industry
       | including costs to operate comparing to any other industry. Ads
       | are the biggest pillar on which most of the faang stands. Sadly
       | most people don't even want to make a few clicks to download a
       | browser extension.
        
       | keb_ wrote:
       | How do ya'll feel about the idea that adblock can be morally
       | equivalent to theft[1]? I see this argument pop up from time to
       | time in relation to people who use alternative clients to
       | services such as YouTube. But if you're using uBlock Origin, you
       | are probably browsing many, _many_ sites that rely at least
       | partially on ad revenue, so it 's a similar case.
       | 
       | [1] https://twitter.com/LeaVerou/status/518154828166725632
        
         | foo_barrio wrote:
         | If you argue that from the site's side then you can bring up
         | that ads are taking up data, bandwidth(thus time) and battery
         | (insane JS "game" ads) on the client side no?
        
         | vehemenz wrote:
         | If piracy isn't morally equivalent to theft, then I'm not sure
         | how adblocking would be.
         | 
         | Personally I think there is a stronger argument that dirtying
         | up the Internet with advertising is more immoral than piracy.
        
           | timbit42 wrote:
           | Don't forget the invasion of privacy. These ads include
           | tracking.
        
         | AlexandrB wrote:
         | I'd have more sympathy for this argument if ad-tech didn't
         | consistently run roughshod over my preference not to be
         | tracked. If ad-blockers are theft, trackers are stalking.
        
         | chii wrote:
         | it is no more theft than smelling the cooking of a restaurant.
        
           | npteljes wrote:
           | Not really. Imagine a restaurant which says, hey, here's this
           | sample, it's free if you watch an ad while you eat. And then
           | you eat, and specifically don't watch the ad. That's not just
           | smelling the cooking, just like how reading an article is
           | incurs traffic on a website, which the provider has to pay
           | for somehow. Not to mention the procurement of the article.
        
           | sebastien_b wrote:
           | Obligatory: http://www.marilynkinsella.org/Fabulous%20Folktal
           | es/theft_of...
        
             | ask_b123 wrote:
             | Nice website/stories.
        
           | zamadatix wrote:
           | I don't think it's theft but I also don't think it's really
           | equivalent to that either. After all 1,000,000 people can
           | smell what the restaurant is cooking for another customer and
           | it doesn't cost the restaurant any more than if 0 people did
           | because the restaurant is letting the scent go out either
           | way. On the other hand if 1,000,000 people watch a 100 MB
           | video and block ads it certainly costs the content provider a
           | lot more than if nobody did.
        
             | [deleted]
        
         | RedComet wrote:
         | Ad blocking is analogous to paying someone to cut
         | advertisements out of a magazine you ordered before you read
         | it.
         | 
         | You request something which is when sent to your house. Sure it
         | is via http, but that is irrelevant. It could have just as well
         | been via snail mail.
        
           | lizard wrote:
           | You are absolutely allowed to remove the ads from your copy
           | of a magazine, whether you do it yourself, another household
           | member, a visitor, or even someone you pay.
           | 
           | Even if someone does it without your consent, the dispute is
           | with the copy owner not the magazine publisher.
           | 
           | This would be an issue if an unauthorized party took it from
           | your mailbox, but that still has nothing to do with the
           | publisher or content.
        
             | RedComet wrote:
             | Precisely my point.
        
               | lizard wrote:
               | Thanks, that was not clear with the commentary about
               | "paying someone" and "before you read it" that make it
               | sound like something normal people wouldn't do and should
               | be wary of.
        
         | somehnacct3757 wrote:
         | If the site owner views it that way, they can detect my
         | adblocker and put up a paywall.
         | 
         | And if they're afraid that a paywall will cause people to
         | bounce, then deep down they know what I already know: their
         | content isn't worth paying for.
        
           | epmatsw wrote:
           | This is probably the best take. If someone says that ads are
           | part of the deal, fair enough. I can go somewhere else, or I
           | can honor the deal. Otherwise, seems unethical to me.
        
             | godshatter wrote:
             | What "deal"? They are providing publicly accessible
             | information, I'm choosing to only download a portion of it.
             | If this is affecting their bottom-line, maybe they should
             | rethink their business model. Not my problem.
             | 
             | I block ads to save myself from buying things I don't need,
             | to save myself from being tracked over the internet, and
             | because they are often annoying and sometimes contain
             | malware. I see nothing wrong with this.
             | 
             | I'm not the one that is abusing some sort of "deal", in my
             | opinion.
        
         | ManlyBread wrote:
         | No one on the internet is entitled to ad revenue, especially
         | when it robs me of my right to decide what does and what
         | doesn't get run on my own personal machine.
        
         | marssaxman wrote:
         | I am not responsible for the mistaken assumptions underlying
         | other people's hopes for their business models.
        
         | brimble wrote:
         | I don't have to instruct my computer to display everything you
         | decide to send to it. Period. That's the end of the moral
         | argument.
        
         | npteljes wrote:
         | I'm personally annoyed by ads so I block them.
         | 
         | But I see the point in the sentiment. People pay for
         | advertisements to be seen. On the other hand, a good
         | businessman calculates this into the cost - like if someone
         | prints 1000 flyers, they are sure not every single one of them
         | is read. Like it's part of the flyer business that many go into
         | the bin without being looked at.
        
         | epmatsw wrote:
         | "Hey, viewing this ad is the price of getting this product I'm
         | offering" "No thanks, I'll just take it".
         | 
         | I don't think it's an incorrect argument. We're free to seek
         | out ad-free content, or paid content, or whatever, but
         | unilaterally rejecting the implicit terms of an interaction is
         | ethically grey at best imo.
         | 
         | Edit: this would mainly apply to sites that detect and block
         | ad-blocking. Other sites are a little less clear imo.
        
         | anonymousab wrote:
         | It's as morally equivalent as muting the tv/changing the
         | channel/averting your eyes or attention when a commercial comes
         | on.
         | 
         | It only gets fuzzy when you start to argue about how
         | surveillance capitalism let's them deny payment when ads are
         | avoided on a Web browser but not when they are avoided with
         | television. But "I don't get paid because they spy on you and
         | the process more effectively than in other mediums" is already
         | far more morally dubious.
         | 
         | And at the end of the day, brand or product awareness is only
         | one part of the reason for an advertisement to exist - and the
         | reason to pay for someone to run your ad. Another big part is
         | an expectation that users will click on the ad, that they may
         | buy the thing. So I take even more moral umbrage with content
         | creators who show ads and argue that users should have to view
         | them and are bad for not doing so even if they knowingly will
         | not click or buy them; the content creator tacitly acknowledges
         | that they are fine with only delivering part value to the
         | advertiser while receiving payment in full. At that point it
         | becomes "I am mad at my readers/viewers for being parasitical
         | with me instead of helping me be parasitical with the
         | advertiser" and any arguments about morals have become bunk.
         | 
         | So... unless they also demand that every user should fully read
         | each ad and at least click on them in good faith with an open
         | mind to open the wallet, I see it as a bit hypocritical to
         | question the morality of Adblock users.
        
         | KarlKemp wrote:
         | People find all sorts of arguments that are both logically and
         | morally unsound to justify their behaviour, and it isn't going
         | to change.
         | 
         | For a while I thought they might notice that they are hurting
         | themselves just as much as they are hurting the publishers,
         | since ad blocking is part of the reason the time of freely
         | reading thousands of high-quality sources is coming to an end.
         | But there is really zero appreciation for the work of
         | journalists. Local papers are already gone in rural areas and
         | it took maybe five years until nobody remembers what they've
         | lost.
        
           | Karunamon wrote:
           | I would take this argument more seriously if paid
           | subscriptions didn't also include ads.
        
         | andrewflnr wrote:
         | Theft requires taking something someone already has, not just
         | going out of my way to avoid giving it to them. Anyway, my
         | user-agent, my rules. That should really be the end of the
         | argument.
        
         | executesorder66 wrote:
         | I mean, do you consider it theft if you don't look at a
         | billboard? Fuck these assholes for trying to spin it as if we
         | are stealing from them.
        
         | Nextgrid wrote:
         | I'll consider this if publishers and adtech vendors consider
         | the fact that stealing my personal data, bandwidth and
         | processing power (= battery life on mobile) could also be
         | unethical.
         | 
         | Publishers and adtech might not like the fact that _I_ am in
         | control of what happens on my device and do things they
         | dislike, but then they seem to do exactly the same when it
         | comes to controlling how many ads are displayed and what
         | personal data they collect.
         | 
         | Maybe if the industry can come to an agreement for a reasonable
         | amount of ads, respecting privacy and taking responsibility for
         | the ads they serve (aka compensate the user in case of scam or
         | malware) then people might be more inclined to consider it.
        
       | pmontra wrote:
       | I saw a comment more or less like "Please add more ads and make
       | the x button to close them smaller" today on a website. I was
       | seeing no ads and I never did see one there. I was about to reply
       | to use an adblocker, then wondered if that could make me banned
       | and the reply deleted (they have a moderator approve every single
       | comment).
        
       | mariuz wrote:
       | Dear Mozilla.org please add it as default in the browser if you
       | care about privacy and the web in general, This is the first add-
       | on that I install on all computers , mine or for friends
        
         | brimble wrote:
         | That they've put off doing the obvious for so long ("obvious"
         | because one of the key selling points of the browser at initial
         | release was, _de facto_ , a form of ad blocking--namely, popup
         | blocking) makes me think we're more likely to see integrated
         | ad-blocking in Safari than in Firefox. But probably neither is
         | very likely.
        
       | BiteCode_dev wrote:
       | I have a website bringing a lot of money using ads. I don't
       | attempt to detect adblockers, or deter users from using them, and
       | use them myself.
       | 
       | ublock origin is wonderful. If one day, everybody is using it and
       | I can't make money from ads anymore, I'd say it would be a sad
       | day for my wallet, but a great day for humanity.
        
       | rnd0 wrote:
       | The bottom line is that the web is completely unusable without
       | some sort of ad blocker. That's a pathological condition which
       | speaks ill of the long term viability of the internet. When
       | ublock breaks as it inevitably will, so does the internet (in
       | terms of usability, not in terms of sending packets around).
        
       | hutrdvnj wrote:
       | Let's make it a native Firefox feature.
        
         | i67vw3 wrote:
         | Librewolf (fork of firefox with privacy tweaks) comes pre-
         | installed with UBO.
        
       | systemvoltage wrote:
       | How do people reach technical audiences on Google search when the
       | said technical audience has Adblock installed? Do any founders or
       | tech startups use Google Ads? I don't know any tech person that
       | doesn't use uBlock Origin.
       | 
       | I've seen people recommending StackOverflow ads to reach exact
       | people that might be interested in your product, but I've never
       | ever seen ads on StackOverflow - thanks to uBlock Origin.
        
         | px43 wrote:
         | If you want to get the attention of technical audiences, create
         | great technical content. Blogs, YouTube videos, conference
         | talks, etc. If it's good, your audience will spread it among
         | themselves using their existing social connections.
         | 
         | If you don't have good content, then you don't get access to
         | technical users who do everything in their power to avoid
         | useless noise on the internet.
        
           | systemvoltage wrote:
           | Youtube thing is being eroded. I just searched "Django
           | tutorials" on YouTube and being spammed by boot-campish
           | videos that show horrible coding practices.
           | 
           | Blogs, especially the ones that upvoted here on HN, are very
           | very good. Thanks for the info.
        
       | Zachsa999 wrote:
       | My biggest issue with web advertising is placing video ads on a
       | text website.
       | 
       | Your eye is constantly flicking over to the flashing lights
       | making the ability to focus impossible. Ad blockers are the only
       | thing that makes most ad supported sites usable.
        
         | criddell wrote:
         | The most irritating thing about that for me is that my device
         | thinks I want to hear the audio so it will stop my music to
         | play the ad audio.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | unglaublich wrote:
       | The internet without an adblock is just a scary, misleading place
       | that's trying to trick you into scams, echochambers, bad deals,
       | bad advice, botnets and cryptolockers.
        
         | KarlKemp wrote:
         | In 16 years on the internet with as blocking limited to
         | manually blocked annoyances only I have never had any of those
         | issues.
         | 
         | I'm almost certain it's just an argument to justify adblocking.
         | I wish people had the ability to avoid all the motivated
         | reasoning and just honestly admit the selfishness of their
         | behavior.
        
           | unglaublich wrote:
           | The motivated reasoning is in line with the corresponding
           | selfishness. I want a clean internet. I don't want to be
           | exploited by advertisers. I am proud to admit that this is
           | purely selfish indeed. The only way for an advertiser to
           | reach me is to align with my selfish wishes.
        
           | robryan wrote:
           | Ad tech went too far and has driven everyone to blocking. If
           | the extent of ads was a couple of Google style sponsored text
           | based results a lot of people would probably be fine seeing
           | those.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | Topgamer7 wrote:
         | I haven't run without an adblocker for like 10 years plus. The
         | odd occasion I have it disabled, I can't actually believe what
         | a trash heap some websites I browse are... popular ones!
         | 
         | The internet has become so user hostile, I don't want 10 popups
         | or alerts for cookies, ads, newsletter subscriptions to read a
         | 10 second article.
        
         | gruez wrote:
         | >echochambers
         | 
         | >bad advice
         | 
         | I doubt ublock does anything about that
        
           | unglaublich wrote:
           | The biggest echochambers (like ultranationalist parties) and
           | worst advisors (financial, political, social) try to recruit
           | new members via targeted advertising.
        
       | boomboomsubban wrote:
       | For the past five years it seems like any time I saw an adblocker
       | mentioned you'd see someone replying that uBlock was better, and
       | then another reply clarifying that uBlock Origin is the one you
       | want.
       | 
       | It's crazy that despite that it still took this long.
        
       | Ansil849 wrote:
       | Good. Blocking ads is essential for...
       | 
       | security reasons: to prevent malware from being installed via
       | rogue ads;
       | 
       | for privacy reasons: to reduce being tracked by corporations;
       | 
       | and for mental health reasons: to reduce being bombarded with
       | injunctions to buy things.
        
       | ayushnix wrote:
       | I wonder how the post manifest v3 world will look like and how
       | much it'll affect uBlock Origin on Chromium based browsers. Even
       | now, several features, such as CNAME uncloaking, happen only on
       | Firefox.
        
         | zamadatix wrote:
         | Some Chromium based browsers plan to just continue supporting
         | v2 extensions regardless what Chrome does e.g.
         | https://github.com/brave/brave-browser/issues/20059
        
       | george0812 wrote:
       | If major browsers were 100% user-centric they would've built ad-
       | blocking into the browser. Maybe make it opt-in, but it should be
       | there as a built-in feature.
        
         | bityard wrote:
         | All of the major browsers (except perhaps Safari?) are built to
         | increase the control of the browser vendor (through profiles
         | and tracking) and web developers (through increasingly
         | intrusive hooks into the OS). All of this at the expense of the
         | user. Users are _not_ given fine-grained control over what
         | websites can do with their computer, and what control still
         | remains is being slowly eroded by changes to APIs and
         | intentional hiding/removal of important privacy settings under
         | the guise of "not overwhelming users with too much choice."
         | 
         | Extensions _should_ be able to help here, but browsers keep
         | slowly marching forward with changes that take away extensions'
         | ability to perform meaningful actions on behalf of the user.
         | Extensions these days are pretty much only useful for turning
         | the browser into an application delivery platform, like the
         | Apple App Store or Google Play. Firefox switched to "web
         | extensions" some years ago, neutering many useful extensions.
         | Google is now switching to Manifest V3 (which Firefox has
         | stated they will adopt), which means the days of effective ad
         | blocking will soon be over.
        
           | vehemenz wrote:
           | Firefox are not blocking the limitations of
           | declarativeNetRequest. They are picking and choosing the good
           | parts of V3 and implementing those.
        
       | lalaland1125 wrote:
       | I think it's only a matter of time until adblock is legally
       | banned.
       | 
       | The current situation, where the vast majority of the internet
       | relies solely on ads and an increasing number of people use
       | adblock year over year is unsustainable.
       | 
       | The system can support a certain number of free riders (people
       | who consume the product but don't contribute back in ad
       | eyeballs), but at a certain point the math will no longer work.
       | 
       | Eventually we as a society will reach a point with only two
       | options:
       | 
       | 1. Stop using ads to fund most of the internet
       | 
       | 2. Ban adblock so our current ad funded internet can work.
        
         | st3ve445678 wrote:
         | If ads were reasonable, I would not block them. I define
         | reasonable as simple static image ads with no tracking that
         | link to the advertised product/service.
         | 
         | But ads today bloat pages with so much tracking & other
         | nonsense that it has ruined the experience. I cant stand to
         | browse the web without an ad-blocker, it's horrific.
        
         | 2pEXgD0fZ5cF wrote:
         | > certain number of free riders
         | 
         | This implies that ads means paying/sutaining for the service,
         | and no ads means not paying/sustaining.
         | 
         | This hasn't been the case for a long long time. Even paying
         | customers get ads piled on them. Sure for many sites ads is the
         | whole business. But there are also many business that
         | 
         | 1. Never had a business plan to begin with, even the ads won't
         | sustain them. The goal is just to be bought by a bigger company
         | or become a loss leader and then "figure it out later".
         | 
         | 2. The goal is to maximize profits by any means necessary even
         | with paying customers upon which a sustainable business could
         | be built. But instead we get dark patterns, abuse of user data
         | and ads.
        
           | csa wrote:
           | > Even paying customers get ads piled on them.
           | 
           | Often times more... they have demonstrated that their wallet
           | is open.
           | 
           | If you want an example of this in the US, make a small
           | political donation.
           | 
           | The amount of money that will be spent coming after more of
           | your money is mind-bending.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | packet_nerd wrote:
         | I had a good laugh when I saw my grandma using her iPad
         | calculator app to do her finances. The app was displaying an an
         | ad, she didn't want to see it and stuck a sticker over that
         | part of the screen. :-)
         | 
         | Is my grandma's sticker going to be illegal in this forced
         | advertising future? If not, where in the stack between the
         | webpage and your eyes will it start to be legal to block? What
         | about blocking in the graphics stack in the OS? The display? A
         | sticker in front of the display? A smart film in front of the
         | display? Smart glasses? Will it be illegal to avert your eyes
         | from advertisements, a la Black Mirror?
        
         | duxup wrote:
         | I keep wondering if / when we as users want to pay for more
         | things...
        
           | bmicraft wrote:
           | I would pay for I the things I currently block. The problem
           | is they usually want >5$/mo for things that would make maybe
           | 10c/mo from ads otherwise which I don't find fair
        
         | Buttons840 wrote:
         | Option 3, let the ad funded internet die and keep the remaining
         | good parts.
        
           | aidanhs wrote:
           | Ad funding would never stop because people wanting to make
           | money off content would never stop - it just becomes more
           | subtle. Think sponsored posts, product placement, added bias.
           | 
           | Imagine a plain text blog run by an individual, good quality
           | technical content, and a company comes and offers $10k to
           | write a blog post about their product after trying it. If the
           | author decides not to disclose the financial motivation, you
           | now have a subtle biased funded advert that no adblocker will
           | save you from.
        
             | CuriouslyC wrote:
             | We already have mountains of shilled astroturf on the
             | internet. I'm fine with it since shill content tends to be
             | low quality and not too difficult to distinguish (except in
             | google SERPS, which is another problem).
             | 
             | Legitimate content creators won't just blindly hop on the
             | shill bandwagon because building a following is hard and
             | takes time, and getting caught shilling can destroy your
             | credibility and cause you to bleed followers VERY quickly.
             | Adding a sponsor call-outs will probably be the ultimate
             | go-to for legitimate content creators, but even that must
             | be done carefully as pushing low quality sponsors will also
             | hurt subscriber numbers.
        
             | [deleted]
        
           | jandrese wrote:
           | The problem is that the most popular alternative,
           | microtransactions, doesn't work. Turns out there is a big
           | psychological barrier between free and literally any payment
           | at all, even a few pennies. People are sensitive to the
           | danger of being nickled and dimed to death.
           | 
           | And that's before you get into the problem of how to set up a
           | clearinghouse where you can handle microtransactions without
           | being eaten alive by fees.
        
             | glenstein wrote:
             | I thought the porous paywall + subscription model is the
             | most popular alternative?
        
             | coldpie wrote:
             | If ad-based business models truly become unviable, they
             | will find a new one. Ad-based businesses suck all the air
             | out of the room, preventing other models from even forming.
             | It'll take effort to find better models, but they'll come.
             | But TBH, I don't see the ad-based model dying any time
             | soon.
        
               | visarga wrote:
               | There are plenty of reasons to post good content that are
               | not related to ads, and very weird incentives to write
               | good content otherwise. Content for ads is riddled with
               | SEO, hyped headlines, short shallow and unoriginal
               | articles.
               | 
               | Good content is posted by people and companies for
               | indirect benefits: a researcher makes videos about papers
               | to motivate and held himself accountable to the public, a
               | company publishes documentation and tutorials that are
               | related to their business, a hobbyist does the same for
               | pure fun. A teacher posts lesson plans to collaborate
               | with other teachers. We'll be fine without content-for-
               | ads.
        
             | irrational wrote:
             | > People are sensitive to the danger of being nickled and
             | dimed to death.
             | 
             | And yet, people will sign up for multiple subscription
             | services (Netflix, Disney plus, HBO max, Amazon prime,
             | etc), which I consider to be the same as being nickeled and
             | dimed.
        
               | jandrese wrote:
               | Consider a Netflix like service where you paid $0.50 per
               | show you watched. It happened seamlessly and you just saw
               | a bill at the end of the month. Would you have the same
               | video viewing habits?
               | 
               | Services like this exist, but total revenue is so small
               | they don't even register on most charts. People don't
               | like it.
        
               | irrational wrote:
               | Well, I watch maybe 1 movie a month. So, .50 sounds
               | pretty good.
        
             | Fornax96 wrote:
             | I think taxes are the biggest hurdle for microtransactions.
             | You are legally required to report taxes in _every_ country
             | where you have customers. This means that the customer will
             | need to fill in address information for each website they
             | want to use which is also a high barrier. And if you run an
             | online business it won't take long before you have to
             | report taxes in 200 countries. It's a job on its own to
             | administrate that!
             | 
             | With advertisements you receive payments from a single
             | party, and because it's a business-to-business transaction
             | it's tax free.
        
         | matheusmoreira wrote:
         | If it's unsustainable, it's their own fault. They _chose_ to
         | send people content for free. They did so _hoping_ they 'd look
         | at the noise they call advertising. Well, it's not happening
         | and they need to deal with it. We don't owe them a thing, they
         | need to accept it and move on.
         | 
         | The fact is people don't want to be subjected to ads.
         | Advertisers aren't entitled to people's attention and they're
         | not gonna get it. So either they start charging people for
         | access or they just turn off the servers, either is fine. If
         | they send us ads, we're gonna block them.
        
         | titzer wrote:
         | It's exponential growth that's unsustainable. Just five years
         | ago, ad revenues on the internet were _half_ of today. How did
         | we  "sustain" it then?
        
         | pluc wrote:
         | If AdBlockers become illegal it will lead to a slew of adblock
         | devices like PiHole-preloaded RaspberryPis and will just shift
         | the blocking at the DNS level
         | 
         | Ads are for people who don't know how to avoid them.
        
         | vbezhenar wrote:
         | How do you draw the line? What is adblock? Is it addon which
         | allows to control your browser? Is it list of rules for some
         | websites? Web is too flexible and built with flexible user
         | agent.
        
         | everdrive wrote:
         | There's definitely an option #3 here: ad-blockers eventually
         | lose the arms race. We're already partially there.
        
           | bspammer wrote:
           | I think this is most likely sadly.
           | 
           | There has been no working adblocker for twitch.tv for over a
           | year now. As far as I know, they are splicing the ad directly
           | into the main video stream while it's playing, so there's no
           | way to differentiate it from the content at all.
           | 
           | Surely it's only a matter of time before youtube starts doing
           | this too.
        
             | coldpie wrote:
             | > Surely it's only a matter of time before youtube starts
             | doing this too.
             | 
             | I recently learned about the SponsorBlock extension[1] for
             | YouTube. It's a crowdsourced collection of the location and
             | duration of in-band sponsorships in YouTube videos. The
             | extension queries the database for each video, then skips
             | over the sponsorship portion of the video. I don't use it
             | myself, since I don't mind skipping sponsorships manually,
             | but it's kind of fascinating that it exists and
             | (apparently) works.
             | 
             | [1] https://sponsor.ajay.app/about
        
               | bspammer wrote:
               | Oh yeah SponsorBlock is great! It reminds me of Wikipedia
               | - it is surprisingly reliable given that it's
               | crowdsourced.
               | 
               | It does rely on the sponsor being at the same location in
               | the video every time though, so it's not a solution to
               | twitch-style adverts.
        
         | inglor_cz wrote:
         | The ad model is unsustainable for many other reasons too and it
         | will likely fail anyway.
         | 
         | See Facebook's struggle when Apple limited their ability to
         | track you.
        
         | jimbob45 wrote:
         | If any ad-evasion technology was ever going to be banned
         | legally, it would have been TiVo. The internet is far less
         | reliant on straight ad revenue than TV shows were.
        
           | jandrese wrote:
           | Did TiVo actually affect ad revenue? My understanding is that
           | the revenue figures were calculated based on Nielson family
           | scores, and TiVo ad skipping wouldn't show up in there.
        
             | nobody9999 wrote:
             | >Did TiVo actually affect ad revenue? My understanding is
             | that the revenue figures were calculated based on Nielson
             | family scores, and TiVo ad skipping wouldn't show up in
             | there.
             | 
             | Given that TiVo has been running "pre-roll" (i.e., when you
             | start playing a recording) ads for a couple years now (they
             | are skippable), they're certainly trying to get a piece of
             | that sweet, sweet ad revenue for themselves.
             | 
             | I have no idea whether that cuts into the existing pie or
             | is additional ad spend.
             | 
             | That said, TiVo isn't as intrusive (in that you can skip
             | their "pre-roll" ads) as YouTube, Amazon Prime, etc.
             | 
             | Really, the best thing about TiVo is their video Fast-
             | forward/rewind. It actually scrolls the content as it does
             | so. No other platform seems to support that, which really
             | kills UX for me.
             | 
             | As for ad skipping, that's only supported for some shows,
             | and even those don't generally allow it until at least a
             | few hours after air time.
             | 
             | Of course, you can still fast-forward through the ads (made
             | much easier by the TiVo video scrolling) which works quite
             | nicely.
        
         | AdmiralAsshat wrote:
         | Legally banning adblock will open up a large can of worms that
         | I don't think anyone really wants to probe into. Third party
         | "ads" can run shady, if not outright malicious JavaScript. If
         | "adblocking" becomes illegal, does it logically follow then
         | that a visitor to a website is _legally compelled_ to allow the
         | site 's shady-ass code to run on their computer?
         | 
         | That would likely fail in the courts, and it might cause
         | inverse blow-back that fully bans such things from running at
         | all. The ad vendors don't want that, because they're probably
         | content to let a minority of users block their ads if it means
         | that the majority still let their ads and all associated
         | tracking/JS run unabated.
        
           | colinmhayes wrote:
           | What happens when the people who grew up without the internet
           | die and all that's left is the people that have been watching
           | youtube since they were 3. Won't the vast majority of people
           | be using adblockers?
        
             | AdmiralAsshat wrote:
             | Anecdotally, I feel like half the people in my immediate
             | circle of friends/family still don't use adblockers _unless
             | I help them set it up_. And then that only holds until the
             | next time they get a new device and I 'm not there to help
             | them do it again.
        
               | colinmhayes wrote:
               | How old is your immediate circle? The truly internet
               | first generation is only like 15-20 at this point.
        
               | AdmiralAsshat wrote:
               | Are we sure this "truly internet first generation" is
               | primarily using laptops? If they grew up with an
               | iPhone/iPad, there's no guarantee that they even have
               | adblocking as an option.
        
               | colinmhayes wrote:
               | That's a good point. I do think the push to get users on
               | mobile has a good deal to do with the difficulty of
               | blocking ads on mobile. Maybe that's where we're headed.
               | Instead of making adblockers illegal users will be herded
               | into locked down platforms that don't allow adblockers.
        
         | Jalad wrote:
         | There's good precedent for adblock remaining legal through a
         | few lawsuits[0]. Granted that is in Germany but I'm hopeful
         | legal action in the US would have a similar outcome.
         | 
         | [0] https://torrentfreak.com/adblocking-does-not-constitute-
         | copy...
        
         | Trellmor wrote:
         | So far, adblockers have won in court every time.
         | 
         | https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-32903235
         | 
         | https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-43838308
         | 
         | https://torrentfreak.com/adblocking-does-not-constitute-copy...
        
           | lalaland1125 wrote:
           | Yes, they would have to create new laws to ban adblockers.
           | With the justification that those laws are necessary to save
           | most of the internet.
        
             | z33k wrote:
             | That would set quite a precedent.
             | 
             | Anyone is free to point a domain at a server and serve
             | HTTP, in the sense that they are allowed to buy a server,
             | domain and maybe software- in order to have a website.
             | 
             | A fair comparison could be done for a pamphlet or a book-
             | you are free to pay a publisher/ printing press/ editor- in
             | order to have a pamphlet or book.
             | 
             | Banning adblockers would not simply affirm this. It would
             | go further and set a precedent that you, the publisher, can
             | run arbitrary code or display arbitrary things on a user's
             | screen; potentially against the user's wishes.
        
         | dasKrokodil wrote:
         | There was an internet before everything was funded by ads. It
         | was different, but also nice.
        
         | treeface9000 wrote:
        
         | aquir wrote:
         | The problem with ads is that they are intrusive and not
         | respecting the privacy of the users. I don't mind static, well
         | placed and well curated ads on any page. The pages then should
         | fund ourselves using crowdfunding and good ads. It's already a
         | working model. They can't ban it anyway, once the data reaches
         | my device I do whatever I want with it.
        
         | bambax wrote:
         | I too fear AdBlock will eventually fail, not because it will be
         | legally banned (on what basis??) but because Chrome will kill
         | it and other browsers will die.
         | 
         | You seem to welcome it; I think it would be a great
         | catastrophe.
        
           | jart wrote:
           | It's more likely governments will make it illegal to not use
           | an adblocker. For example the security community is now
           | having adblock installed on normie browsers as a matter of
           | policy. If everyone starts doing that and the companies whose
           | survival depends on ads react in a way that ends the free
           | ride for the technical class, things will really hit the fan.
           | Imagine all the smartest programmers in the world wake up one
           | morning and are forced to use the unfiltered internet. We'd
           | all switch to SerenityOS within the fortnight and the old
           | regime would skulk along like a brainless beast for a few
           | decades while Andreas Kling becomes emperor of the world.
        
           | gaius_baltar wrote:
           | This can be a new selling point for Firefox: "the browser
           | that allow you to block ads"
        
       | adhesive_wombat wrote:
       | Shifting the blame onto the law and not the companies who are
       | actually breaking it to annoy you on purpose is exactly the point
       | of making the banners obnoxious.
        
       | OnionBlender wrote:
       | Are there any add blockers for iOS? I want to get a tablet for
       | reading on the couch but I assume I would need an Android or
       | Surface tablet in order to install Firefox with uNlock Origin.
        
         | Nextgrid wrote:
         | Not as good as uBlock Origin due to API limitations, but
         | AdGuard is probably the best you can go for because it supports
         | (and internally converts) uBlock-style filters as opposed to
         | using its own, usually outdated filter list like other blockers
         | do.
         | 
         | Lockdown Privacy is also a good one to filter out malicious
         | traffic across apps - this neuters the Facebook SDK malware
         | present in many apps for example.
        
         | akaij wrote:
         | Try Firefox Focus.
        
       | linuxhansl wrote:
       | It's simply the best there is. I had used various of the
       | adblock** plugins until I came across uBlock Origin.
       | 
       | Whatever it is you want to block, Javascript, fonts, ads, etc,
       | it's just works, with global defaults and per-page exceptions.
        
         | swarnie wrote:
         | I've just removed adblock and installed ublock origin.
         | 
         | Having tested a few sites on my favourites bar the difference
         | is night and day.
         | 
         | Where has this been all my life....
        
       | superkuh wrote:
       | Too bad modern Firefox doesn't actually have the support to run
       | full featured uBlock Origin since they moved to the Chrome
       | extensions model and threw away the entire Firefox add-on
       | ecosystem. Actual Firefox forks like Sea Monkey and Palemoon
       | still support the fully featured uBlock Origin.
        
         | jmkni wrote:
         | I had no idea SeaMonkey was still going, I remember using that
         | +15 years ago!
        
         | jeltz wrote:
         | You are confusing Chrome and Firefox. Firefox has no plans to
         | remove the old api.
        
         | btdmaster wrote:
         | How? Mozilla has kept the old webRequest API:
         | https://blog.mozilla.org/addons/2021/05/27/manifest-v3-updat...
        
           | px43 wrote:
           | Back in the day, Firefox plugins were able to execute shell
           | commands, and had complete access to the OS of the user. Some
           | people apparently miss this, but it was a key reason why I
           | moved to Chromium based browsers in the first place.
        
           | superkuh wrote:
           | I'm not talking about Google's Manifest v3 or anything
           | recent. I'm talking about Firefox 57 (~2018) and onward when
           | they abandoned XUL and all the extensions/add-ons had to be
           | re-written as chrome-style web extensions. Unfortunately many
           | of the most complex extensions could not and lost features at
           | best.
        
       | tiffanyh wrote:
       | Librewolf
       | 
       | I'm surprised LibreWolf doesn't get more attention. [0]
       | 
       | It's stock Firefox, with uBlock Origin preinstalled and a bunch
       | of Firefox configs adjusted to more privacy oriented settings.
       | 
       | It ranks as the most private browser experience, even better than
       | Brave. [1]
       | 
       | https://librewolf.net/
       | 
       | https://privacytests.org/
        
         | cuteboy19 wrote:
         | Entropy increase is bad for privacy, so using more obscure
         | browsers would make you stand out more often right?
        
         | stjohnswarts wrote:
         | They used a slightly tricked out version of librewolf on Garuda
         | Linux as the default.
        
       | mhanberg wrote:
       | Recently, the uBlock Origin icon in my toolbar has just
       | disappeared and doesn't appear in the overflow menu.
       | 
       | Anyone else see this?
        
         | neogodless wrote:
         | Windows 10
         | 
         | Was on 97.0.2 and did not have that issue.
         | 
         | Just now updated to 98.0 and still do not have that issue.
        
         | wildrhythms wrote:
         | "The overflow" has been moved to the puzzle piece menu, I had
         | to open that and manually pin the extension.
        
       | pavon wrote:
       | I need to give uBlock another try. I use and love uMatrix, and
       | was hoping someone would step up to maintain a fork of it, but
       | six months later it is apparent that will not be the case (and is
       | far outside my expertise).
       | 
       | For some reason uBlock never clicked with me. The various global
       | blocking settings I tried either broke too many sites or let too
       | many annoyances through, and I found the process for
       | allowing/blocking third-party resources on a per-site basis was
       | clunkier than other blockers like uMatrix or Privacy Badger.
       | 
       | I really respect what gorhill has done, and keep hearing great
       | things about new privacy preserving techniques being adding to
       | uBlock that go beyond what other blockers do, so I really want to
       | like it. Given how so many people love it and don't have these
       | complaints, I'm probably approaching it with the wrong mindset /
       | usage model, that is causing me to fight against it rather than
       | work with it, so I need to step back and try again with a blank
       | mind.
        
         | hnuser123456 wrote:
         | I don't know how long ago you used it, but it's install and
         | forget and works great. Maybe once every few months I'll use it
         | to hide a frame on a random site.
        
         | Arnavion wrote:
         | >I found the process for allowing/blocking third-party
         | resources on a per-site basis was clunkier than other blockers
         | like uMatrix or Privacy Badger.
         | 
         | It's clunkier yes (requires editing the static filters list by
         | hand), but you might get used to it. My own list is huge (~700
         | lines across 75 web properties) and took some time to create,
         | but now I only have to touch it once a month on average.
        
       | Melatonic wrote:
       | uBlock Origin + NextDNS has been a pretty amazing combo for me.
       | 
       | If you want to really take it even further you can setup pfsense
       | or any other edge router that supports IP blocking and then (at
       | least on your home network) block the IP's of common DNS
       | providers other than the one you want your devices to use. This
       | stops apps and devices that have hardcoded IP's trying to do
       | encrypted DNS (DoH or DoT) to bypass your preferred DNS choices.
       | Its a bit of a game of whack-a-mole but I find they do not change
       | all that often. Unfortunately of course this does not do anything
       | for when you may be walking around using mobile data on a phone
       | (at this point now only NextDNS would be in play - still better
       | than nothing) but I suppose you could run a VPN back to your home
       | network if you wanted to.
        
       | kerneloops wrote:
        
       | mancerayder wrote:
       | What kills me is even paid subscription sites like WSJ,
       | Bloomberg, Seeking Alpha, show you ads even when you're a paying
       | member.
       | 
       | Why is it a war on our attention?
        
         | porcoda wrote:
         | They also include ads in print versions of newspapers and
         | magazines that you subscribe to, and always have. Advertising
         | has always been a component of making them viable businesses:
         | the problem isn't the existence of ads in things you pay for as
         | much as the obnoxious way they are implemented on the web.
        
         | caymanjim wrote:
         | This annoys me too, because I dislike ads, but to be fair,
         | newspapers and magazines have always had ads as their primary
         | revenue source, and also almost always charged for the print
         | copy as well. About 30 years ago, when physical newspapers were
         | still more popular than virtual newspapers, you'd pay about 50
         | cents for the daily edition and $1.50 for the Sunday edition.
         | That adds up to more than the current monthly fees for the
         | online versions. In fact, way back in 1990, the New York Times
         | cost $5/week for home delivery[1]. It's $17/mo now for the
         | digital-only version[2]. Granted, if you want both digital and
         | daily home delivery now, it's $40/mo. If you look at old free
         | print papers (like the Village Voice), the volume of ads is
         | enormous compared to something like the Times.
         | 
         | In any event, paying for a product with ads has always been
         | part of the print media/news business. I'm far more annoyed by
         | paying for cable TV (or streaming services) and still getting
         | ads.
         | 
         | [1]: https://www.nytimes.com/1990/12/21/business/the-times-
         | raises...
         | 
         | [2]: https://www.nytimes.com/subscription
        
           | Nextgrid wrote:
           | That adds up to the current monthly fees only if it assumes
           | you buy every single edition. In print, you have the choice
           | not to - with the subscription you pay full price regardless
           | of whether you actually read every day's edition.
        
         | 0xcde4c3db wrote:
         | The fact that you're able and willing to pay is exactly what
         | marks you as a desired target. You can't spend your way out of
         | people wanting your money; they'll always want more.
        
         | matheusmoreira wrote:
         | > Why is it a war on our attention?
         | 
         | Entitlement. They literally think they have a right to our
         | attention. The audacity of these people never fails to impress.
         | Paying any amount of money will only make them bolder.
        
         | vehemenz wrote:
         | I find this ironic too. I get NYT via my institution, and on
         | the actual app there are ads, but when I browse on the website,
         | logged in with uBO, there is nothing.
        
           | mardifoufs wrote:
           | Funnily enough, the _only_ way to not get ads on those news
           | apps is by using moded apks (unless you use root or dns
           | adblock, but that usually messes with the layout) . There 's
           | no amount of money you could pay to remove them even if you
           | wanted to, so the only way is to download apks that not only
           | remove ads but also make _all_ the articles free without
           | paying anything.
           | 
           | It's crazy because Bloomberg already charges quite a lot
           | (40$/month?) if you don't get a discounted price, how much
           | are they getting with those very generic banner ads? It can't
           | possibly be more than a few cents, maybe a dollar or two per
           | month for casual readers. It's so counterproductive if it
           | makes them lose even just a few % of their subscribers.
        
           | bootlooped wrote:
           | A DNS-based ad blocking solution helps with this problem on
           | mobile.
        
         | patall wrote:
         | Isn't it that those people that can easily afford the payment
         | and thus buy it are those that are most attractive for any
         | advertiser (for that very reason). At least that's what I
         | heard, before Youtube Red became a thing which kind of
         | disproves it.
        
         | sorokod wrote:
         | Why would they not show you adds? I mean, they already got your
         | money, now they will get a bit more.
        
         | openplatypus wrote:
         | This!! For real. Paid subscription for Bloomberg and boom,
         | there is huge banner on top. Takes ~10% of screen.
         | 
         | Why?!
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | Rafuino wrote:
       | Great news! Adblock Plus has been compromised for quite some
       | time. This means the pressure will definitely increase on uBlock
       | Origin but I hope they stay strong.
        
       | Larrikin wrote:
       | I prefer Ad Nauseum (https://adnauseam.io/) because I don't want
       | to just block the ads I want to ruin the profile ad companies
       | have on me by having all the ads clicked as well.
        
         | xigoi wrote:
         | Do you think they can't tell when a click is automated?
        
           | Larrikin wrote:
           | Google banned it from the Chrome store while leaving other ad
           | blockers up, so maybe they can't?
        
             | malka wrote:
             | This is the strongest sign that it actually hurt their
             | bottom line
        
           | ManlyBread wrote:
           | This gets brought up every time Ad Nauseam is mentioned but I
           | have yet to see a proof of concept.
        
             | pmoriarty wrote:
             | I bet it could probably be done by doing statistical
             | analysis or some AI technique to analyze one's browsing
             | data, and maybe combining it with other information about
             | you that they get from other sources (purchase history,
             | social media participation, etc...).
             | 
             | The problem for them is that even if it works this adds
             | extra processing time, effort, and development time.. which
             | can add up when aggregated over the many millions/billions
             | of users they have.
             | 
             | Much easier to just oppose effective ad blockers.
        
         | wldcordeiro wrote:
         | Hah it'd be even funnier if it was able to use their "report"
         | functions to report the ads as the spam they are.
        
         | beardog wrote:
         | UBlock Origin is not just an adblocker though, in their own
         | words it is a "wide-spectrum content blocker" capable of
         | blocking things like malware, cookie consent popups, social
         | media buttons, and outsider intrusion into LAN.
         | 
         | If adnauseam did those things I would use it (I don't want to
         | run both at the same time).
         | 
         | edit: i'm wrong, it is a ublock origin fork, apologies
        
           | Larrikin wrote:
           | Ad Nauseum is a wrapper over Ublock Origin. It says so in the
           | second sentence explaining what it is.
        
             | beardog wrote:
             | I see, I originally saw AdNauseum years ago and
             | misremembered how it worked, I should have read about it
             | again. Sorry!
        
         | cjbgkagh wrote:
         | I have always assumed our future fascist overlords will use the
         | curated ad profiles to bootstrap a social credit system. So
         | instead of clicking on any ad I need one that only clicks on
         | regime supporting, pro-social, good citizen ads.
        
           | jart wrote:
           | They probably don't have the data. Unless they started
           | monitoring people for jaywalking, driving through crosswalks,
           | smoking on trains, not cleaning up after dogs, buying junk
           | food at 711, etc.
        
             | cjbgkagh wrote:
             | An efficient government could figure it out from proxy
             | data, I'm sure I could do it. A corrupt and inefficient
             | government wouldn't care so much about getting it wrong.
             | 
             | I suspect it'll be the inefficient one. I can't convince
             | Google ads that I'm not 60 and not single and absolutely
             | not into mature age dating. My non-ad blocked internet
             | browsing experience is marred by pictures of leering
             | grandmas. I expect my future in the fascist dictatorship
             | will be an unpleasant one.
        
               | jart wrote:
               | If you enable ad personalization then they have an ad
               | settings panel where they let you know what they think
               | you're interested in. For instance, Google Ads thinks I'm
               | a married disk jockey living in Orange County who listens
               | to pop and hip hop and loves bread making, aviation, and
               | environmentalism. They let us turn some of it off, but
               | there's no option to tell them what we like.
        
             | JohnWhigham wrote:
             | You realize all that _is_ coming, right? Health insurance
             | companies would _love_ to adjust your premium on the fly
             | when they see you buy a 6 pack at the store.
        
               | jart wrote:
               | Or perhaps the opposite where more cities and suburbs
               | become like San Francisco and everyone is so afraid to go
               | outside they retreat into darth vader pods with internet
               | connections or escape to Fiji like Larry.
        
         | yjftsjthsd-h wrote:
         | My main concern would be that that means _loading_ enough for
         | it _to_ click on, right? Part of why I use uBo is to avoid
         | loading any bytes over the network that I don 't need, and
         | avoid executing any JS that isn't useful.
        
         | dorgo wrote:
         | Automated clicks on ads don't change anything. Even if
         | everybody did this, over time the prices for ads would adjust
         | and find a new equilibrium. Everything else would stay the
         | same. If an advertiser pays $100 for 100 clicks today then he
         | will pay $100 for 1000000 clicks in an ad click inflated world.
         | Maybe slightly more for the additional energy burned to power
         | all this madness.
        
           | systemvoltage wrote:
           | Actually, this happens in close to real-time:
           | https://support.google.com/google-ads/answer/2459326?hl=en
        
         | thatguy0900 wrote:
         | I really like the concept but I would be concerned about having
         | my Google account banned the instant it becomes popular
        
           | the_other wrote:
           | Time to diversify your supply chain then.
        
             | thatguy0900 wrote:
             | I mean, I say Google but I can't imagine any website will
             | allow a logged in user who is committing rampant ad fraud.
        
               | Nextgrid wrote:
               | Don't give leverage to ad-supported websites?
               | 
               | No site I use/rely day to day has any ads so those won't
               | have a reason to ban me. For the rest, not only do they
               | have very little to ban me on (no account, etc - best
               | they can do is IP address?) but an IP ban would actually
               | be beneficial as there's a chance it'll also propagate to
               | their trackers and essentially mark my network as
               | invisible or untrusted, not collecting/processing any
               | data from it as it's considered fraudulent.
        
           | xdennis wrote:
           | That's the same concern I had. But after years of draging my
           | feet, I've finally degoogled enough to not care if they
           | banned my account. Time to install AdNauseam now.
        
           | malka wrote:
           | This is one of the reasons I now use my own domain name
        
       | moneywoes wrote:
       | As it should be
        
       | pmoriarty wrote:
       | Is there any reason not to enable all the blocklists and filters
       | in uBlock Origin that aren't enabled by default?
       | 
       | And why aren't they enabled by default?
       | 
       | Finally, are there any other quick/easy things that can be done
       | by users to improve uBlock's blocking... like maybe installing
       | some other blocklists that aren't in uBlock Origin at all?
        
         | rfgil wrote:
         | I usually add this list to uBlockOrigin to remove the cookies
         | consent popup. https://www.i-dont-care-about-cookies.eu/
        
         | ericra wrote:
         | The primary reason for not enabling every list is that some
         | additional % of sites will "break" (although frequently, this
         | will only be cosmetic).
         | 
         | An example of this is that the lists can block very general
         | class or id attribute such as #cookie-banner. While it's likely
         | that you'll want this blocked in general, some small number of
         | sites may have an element (unfortunately) named this that is
         | functional and that you actually want to see.
         | 
         | Because some of the lists have tens of thousands of entries,
         | these edge cases can add up to break more sites than is
         | actually desired. So there is a give/take there.
         | 
         | Another point is that some of the lists are redundant but have
         | different maintainers. So it may make sense to choose one of
         | these, but you it would just be additional overhead to check
         | them all.
         | 
         | In my experience, running the default lists along with the
         | "Fanboy's Annoyance" list and a few custom entries in "My
         | filters" provides a good experience for me.
        
       | Synaesthesia wrote:
       | Really great on firefox for android too, along with YouTube
       | background player.
        
         | rinze wrote:
         | I use Firefox on Android as a background YouTube player. Just
         | open Youtube on Firefox, select the video you want to watch,
         | lock the screen. The video will stop, but if you press 'play'
         | in the dialog you get in the lock screen, it'll start playing
         | again.
        
           | anonymousab wrote:
           | The issue is that the YouTube webpage video player itself
           | tries to detect when it is backgrounded - seemingly via both
           | APIs and usage patterns - and will stop playback when it
           | detects that. This is true on desktops as well.
           | 
           | There were extensions to disable this behaviour that
           | thankfully work with Firefox for Android.
        
             | Liquix wrote:
             | NewPipe allows both picture-in-picture and background
             | audio, no extension wrangling required :)
        
           | FreeFull wrote:
           | There is an addon available for Firefox on Android that stops
           | the video from stopping, too, which makes this even easier.
        
       | MomoXenosaga wrote:
       | I am frequently annoyed by FF but then I use Chrome. What
       | capitalism has done to the internet... Long live Mozilla.
        
       | alarmingfox wrote:
       | I instantly install this extension whenever I work on a new
       | machine as I could not imagine browsing the web without it.
       | 
       | For that reason I just went looking for a donate button to help
       | fund the project and it turns out they don't even accept
       | donations
       | 
       | https://github.com/gorhill/uBlock/wiki/Why-don't-you-accept-...
        
         | loudtieblahblah wrote:
         | the day is coming - between changing how 3rd party cookies
         | work, how ads are served from the same domain as content
         | itself, to the intended feature-creep of Trusted Computer..
         | that ublock origin, pihole (which is already a piss poor
         | solution), and other tools are going to be rendered useless.
         | 
         | It's a great tool. But it's days are numbered. A couple more
         | years and mark my words, things like ublock, will be defeated.
        
           | devmor wrote:
           | If you think that's going to happen, you definitely have
           | never worked with an advertiser or agency.
           | 
           | Most would rather die than trust the content provider with
           | reporting their own statistics.
        
           | stjohnswarts wrote:
           | Good luck with that. ISPs, DMCA people, etc have been saying
           | that for 30 years.
        
         | YaBomm wrote:
        
         | flurdy wrote:
         | > (no donations = no expectations)
         | 
         | He/She/They has a great point
        
           | Pooge wrote:
           | The pronoun "they" is enough if you don't know the person's
           | gender[1] ;).
           | 
           | [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singular_they
        
             | flurdy wrote:
             | I was also unsure if that was just opinion of the core
             | maintainer or a collective of committers. Again a "they"
             | would have fine :) .
        
               | iso1631 wrote:
               | Most people, even the most rabid "anti-pronoun" people,
               | have used "they" in the singular sense for decades
               | without even realising it
               | 
               | "I had a great teacher at school" "Oh really, what was
               | their name?"
               | 
               | etc
        
           | randomguy3344 wrote:
           | did you really have to add the pronouns mate?
           | 
           | "that's a great point" would suffice
           | 
           | wouldn't you agree?
        
             | oauea wrote:
             | or even just "they"
        
               | loudtieblahblah wrote:
               | calling people a word intended for the plural, is so
               | fucking moronic. I will die on this hill.
        
               | ska wrote:
               | You aren't going to have a whole lot of company. All of
               | the major style guides have given it the nod because they
               | are practical.
               | 
               | It's a weakness in English, lacking a unique indefinite
               | pronoun - so we're probably stuck with "they" unless a
               | neologism sticks.
        
               | stjohnswarts wrote:
               | You could potentially get fired, but I don't think you
               | employer will actually end you for it.
        
               | stonogo wrote:
               | If I were to die on an English-related hill, I would
               | probably pick one that didn't put me in opposition with
               | Shakespeare.
        
               | [deleted]
        
               | jsmith99 wrote:
               | Intended by whom?
        
               | fernandotakai wrote:
               | i have so much trouble with they as singular because ESL
               | + romantic language with no genderless pronoun.
               | 
               | i always call users "he" because user is, by default,
               | male in my native language.
        
               | [deleted]
        
             | willcipriano wrote:
             | The upvote button is fine if all you want to say is "great
             | point"
        
         | stjohnswarts wrote:
         | - ublock origin
         | 
         | - vim c
         | 
         | - user agent switcher
         | 
         | are the big three for me.
        
         | planetafro wrote:
         | I prefer DNS filtering over extensions as they generally want
         | all permissions to essentially impersonate you at the browser
         | level. Am I wrong?
        
           | BiteCode_dev wrote:
           | Wrong, no. It's a compromise. Addons have the ability to
           | filter advertisements that cannot be identified by their
           | domain name or ip. They also can take actions to compensate
           | for website failure when ads are blocked.
        
           | everdrive wrote:
           | You're not necessarily wrong, however there are whole
           | categories of ads and tracking that cannot be prevented by
           | DNS blocking.
        
           | matheusmoreira wrote:
           | You're not wrong. We're all placing immense amounts of trust
           | in uBlock Origin. I often say that the blockers should be
           | fully integrated into the browsers themselves in order to
           | solve the trust problem. It's sad that it can't happen due to
           | conflicts of interest.
        
             | GeekyBear wrote:
             | Given that it's open source, we have the freedom to audit
             | the code to make sure it's trustworthy.
             | 
             | Also, Mozilla has a vetting process it puts a popular
             | subset of extensions through.
             | 
             | >Due to the curated nature of Recommended extensions, each
             | extension undergoes a thorough technical security review to
             | ensure it adheres to Mozilla's add-on policies.
             | 
             | https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/recommended-
             | extensions-...
        
             | airstrike wrote:
             | _> the blockers should be fully integrated into the
             | browsers themselves in order to solve the trust problem_
             | 
             | s/solve/transfer
        
               | matheusmoreira wrote:
               | I assume browsers are trustworthy user agents. If this is
               | false, we've already lost.
        
               | pmontra wrote:
               | The browser owns the connection anyway and can do
               | whatever it wants with the content. Of course trusting
               | one party is better than having to trust two parties so
               | we are back to do we trust the adblocker?
        
             | stjohnswarts wrote:
             | You can bet with every release of ublock origin that
             | security people are all over looking at the code diffs for
             | security issues. I don't have an issue with it. At some
             | point you have to trust somebody. Otherwise just take wire
             | cutters, walk outside your house, and cut the cable.
        
           | rootsudo wrote:
           | DNS is better, but I find that you need to have a dns server
           | rather than modify/update the host files on router because
           | it'd kill it.
           | 
           | Pihole is great, but you have to maintain a pi. It's not
           | hard, but the other issue is also training and education when
           | users/family is not on it.
           | 
           | In the end, subscription purchases for youtube, help because
           | the ads are really horrible on mobile platform and not
           | blockable easily on iphone.
           | 
           | I went all over the place with this comment, but I agree DNS
           | level is better then browser level. The IP is still
           | enumerated on a browser adblock level, but not on a DNS
           | level.
        
           | loudtieblahblah wrote:
           | DNS filtering sucks and can't filter ads served from the same
           | domain as content, if all you can block is a FQDN, there's an
           | absolute shit ton of trackers and ads that are getting past
           | you.
           | 
           | This is why piholes are awful. I don't know why they get such
           | high praise - it's just a crappy DNS filter that blocks like
           | what 40% of the ads you see?
        
             | caymanjim wrote:
             | PiHole is not awful. It greatly enhances the blocking
             | provided by browser plugins. Most valuably, it blocks an
             | enormous amount of ads in non-browser apps. If I'm using
             | e.g. the BBC app on my phone, PiHole blocks most of the ads
             | (or at least it used to; I haven't checked recently). It
             | also blocks ads in smart TVs and other places where you
             | can't install uBlock.
        
               | loudtieblahblah wrote:
               | it doesn't enhance anything a browser plugin does -it's a
               | redundancy.
               | 
               | yes, it can block SOME ads in apps. it's also really good
               | at breaking access to said apps too, then you must spend
               | a great deal troublehsooting apps one at a time.
               | 
               | IMHO - ublock on the browser, pay for apps that have
               | adfree versions, don't use apps that don't, and pirate
               | the rest.
        
             | burnished wrote:
             | I thought part of the point is that 40% or whatever never
             | gets sent to your device in the first place - speeding up
             | requests, reducing usage. Those seem like good things.
        
               | yjftsjthsd-h wrote:
               | And, it's 40% that don't show up even on devices and
               | browsers where you can't install uBlock.
        
             | biomcgary wrote:
             | Pihole is contributes to a defense in depth strategy. Lots
             | of android games are unplayable when I'm connected to the
             | internet unless I'm on a network protected by pihole. Yes,
             | I can run a firewall on my phone, but maintaining firewalls
             | on every device that my family uses?
        
               | scarface74 wrote:
               | Solution: don't play games or use any app where the
               | business model isn't "I give you money and you give me
               | goods and services".
               | 
               | I have _one_ ad supported app on my phone - the Overcast
               | podcast player. That's only because the author created
               | his own non scummy ad network and I find ads on the
               | podcast player that advertise other podcasts useful.
               | 
               | If I didn't, I would pay him too to get rid of ads.
        
               | yjftsjthsd-h wrote:
               | That only works when they're willing to take your money
               | and willing to then not show you ads or track you. Lots
               | of places won't take your money and _only_ do ads, and an
               | upsetting number are happy to take your money and then
               | track you and /or show you ads _anyways_. (My  "favorite"
               | so far is Hulu, who has the audacity to call their paid
               | plan "no ads" and then include ads.)
        
               | scarface74 wrote:
               | Then don't use those services or buy those products?
               | 
               | When I did buy Windows PCs, I either bought from the
               | business division of Dell or the Microsoft store
               | specifically because they weren't bundled with adware.
        
               | stjohnswarts wrote:
               | That's great. I'm glad you have balanced out your
               | morality and online browsing. We will all sleep easier
               | tonight.
        
               | scarface74 wrote:
               | It's not about morality, its about my preferring not to
               | be bombarded with ads.
        
             | dheerajvs wrote:
             | Defense in depth.
             | 
             | On my Android I have Netguard[0] configured with a hosts
             | file, Firefox with uBlock Origin and NextDNS with
             | comprehensive blocklists.
             | 
             | uBlock Origin protects only one app -- the browser.
             | 
             | [0]: https://github.com/M66B/NetGuard/releases/
        
             | stjohnswarts wrote:
             | pi hole is great and is just another layer.
        
               | loudtieblahblah wrote:
               | pi hole is as great as those blocklist filters people
               | used to add into Torrent clients or using tools like
               | PeerBlock.
               | 
               | It's just so faulty and pointless.
        
           | Melatonic wrote:
           | Its better to do both - layered approach. And if you wanna be
           | extra see my other comment on this thread :-)
           | 
           | The advantage of DNS is of course that it will generally also
           | work on things other than your browser which is a pretty huge
           | win.
        
           | stjohnswarts wrote:
           | Pero ?por que no los dos?
        
           | rpdillon wrote:
           | > impersonate you at the browser level
           | 
           | This is a new framing for me...I don't think of ublock as
           | impersonating me, but rather representing me, like an agent
           | in a transaction. While it's true that agents that represent
           | you need to be trusted, there is also a huge upside: ublock
           | origin can do things that DNS blocking cannot. Given ublock's
           | (gorhill's) track record, I think this is an excellent deal.
        
             | biomcgary wrote:
             | Gorhill's track record is the critical bit. He transferred
             | maintenance responsibilities for ublock to someone who
             | immediately exploited it to make money, which is why we now
             | have ublock origin. In a world of 7.9 billion people, it is
             | amazing that a decent internet experience depends so much
             | on a single person being competent and honorable. He (and
             | the block list folks) are the heroes that run into the
             | virtual dumpster fire and pull us out.
        
             | yjftsjthsd-h wrote:
             | Right; there's a reason we literally call the browser the
             | "user agent", and uBlock is just a part of that. It's not
             | impersonating me, it's a vital part of the browser being a
             | useful tool _for_ me.
        
               | ethbr0 wrote:
               | The concept of a user agent is hilariously and sadly
               | quaint on the modern web.
               | 
               | Can you imagine what a user agent to interact with
               | Facebook would look like? Or Instagram? Or TikTok?
               | 
               | It shows how far we slid backwards for large, popular
               | areas of user functionality, post-90s.
        
               | yjftsjthsd-h wrote:
               | On the contrary; the _browser_ is still generally the
               | user 's agent (although Chrome can be iffy) - we don't
               | need to imagine, because we can compare the Facebook app
               | to browsing Facebook in a browser, and see that the
               | browser is _still_ far more friendly to the user 's
               | interests than what FB ships.
        
               | ethbr0 wrote:
               | It is, although both Chrome and Safari obviously have
               | their own, non-user interests.
               | 
               | But browsers in 2022 are second class citizens, for
               | business models that can generate positive ROI from
               | developer time. They are at best dissuaded (e.g. Reddit,
               | TikTok), and at worse actively crippled or prohibited.
               | 
               | The majority of users are on apps, and more users are
               | moving to devices (e.g. Chromebooks, Portal). All of
               | which are explicitly _not_ user agents.
        
           | ignoramous wrote:
           | > _I prefer DNS filtering over extensions_
           | 
           | DNS filtering is weak and there are numerous bypasses [0],
           | including ones you can never fix at the DNS layer [1]
           | 
           | [0] Ex: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30412070
           | 
           | [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30411049
        
           | IMSAI8080 wrote:
           | I have extensions turned off in private browsing and then use
           | this mode for banking etc.
        
           | Ayesh wrote:
           | Most ad services now swap their ad JS domains frequently,
           | aggregate snippets (ads and functional) over a Tag Manager,
           | or simply even proxy the ad scripts through the main domain,
           | which a DNS filter cannot block reliably.
        
         | pbronez wrote:
         | > I don't want the project to become in need of funding in any
         | way: no dedicated home page + no forum = no cost = no need for
         | funding. I want to be free to move onto something else if ever
         | I get tired working on these projects (no donations = no
         | expectations).
         | 
         | This resonates with me. I'm thinking about spinning up a new
         | open source project, and I really want it to be default-alive.
         | I know that I don't have infinite time and attention for it...
         | I want it to be able to live without constant feeding.
         | 
         | I do think that donations will be part of the picture though.
         | Similar to uBlock, the project will have some dependencies on
         | upstream data providers. I would love to generate revenue and
         | pass it to those upstream providers to support the broader
         | ecosystem.
        
         | meerita wrote:
         | We're two. It's so useful. I use it on those website who
         | display the "accept all cookies", specially on those ones
         | because I'm tired of denying cookie usage.
         | 
         | I still don't understand why Firefox, champion of privacy,
         | doesn't make a uBlock native.
        
           | matheusmoreira wrote:
           | > I still don't understand why Firefox, champion of privacy,
           | doesn't make a uBlock native.
           | 
           | That's the best technological solution but there are inherent
           | conflicts of interest since Firefox depends on Google for
           | money.
        
           | scarface74 wrote:
           | Blame government for not understanding unintended
           | consequences when they pass laws regarding tech (GDPR)
        
             | btdmaster wrote:
             | The law says that agreeing or disagreeing should be equally
             | easy. Companies are breaking that law.
        
               | emptysongglass wrote:
               | I don't want to agree or disagree at all. I want my
               | internet back pre-banners where I just get the content.
               | The new internet is awful.
        
               | adhesive_wombat wrote:
               | Personally I like the banners because they are an active
               | reminder that that website is explicitly harvesting
               | personal information.
        
               | scarface74 wrote:
               | It's hard to know what a law says that requires you to
               | read 11 chapters with 99 sections just to create a
               | website.
               | 
               | https://gdpr-info.eu/
        
               | paulmd wrote:
               | completely false, it's trivially possible to create a
               | website without needing to involve GDPR at all.
        
               | adhesive_wombat wrote:
               | Don't collect any information you don't actually have to,
               | and if you do hold personal information, treat it
               | basically like you'd want your own information treated,
               | and you're basically good. It's really that simple.
               | 
               | The only people who think it's particularly hard or
               | onerous are the people referenced by "It is difficult to
               | get a man to understand something when his salary depends
               | on his not understanding it."
        
               | scarface74 wrote:
               | I don't deal with the clusterf%%% of modern front end
               | development. I'm just tired of seeing cookie banners
               | everywhere.
               | 
               | Did the law in anyway make my life better?
        
               | adhesive_wombat wrote:
               | Obnoxious banners are not required under GDPR. In fact,
               | unless denying consent is as easy as granting it, they're
               | illegal.
               | 
               | It's not the law's fault that companies would rather
               | implement such detrimental UX than either give up the
               | teat of personal data or give people their rights.
               | 
               | It is, however, the fault of regulators for not stamping
               | down on such behaviour when it is against both the letter
               | and spirit of the law.
               | 
               | And, honestly, I consider the fact that so many websites
               | are forced to admit that they are trying to take and sell
               | my data to be positive.
        
               | dfinninger wrote:
               | Personally, I rarely come across a site that makes it
               | harder to agree than disagree. I find both paths equally
               | annoying.
        
               | adhesive_wombat wrote:
               | Examples are plentiful.
               | 
               | https://twitter.com/cookieshame
               | 
               | One interesting thing is that loads of sites use OneTrust
               | to implement illegal banners. However OneTrust has a
               | compliant banner on their own site.
               | 
               | So they can do it, but most sites deliberately configure
               | it illegally.
        
               | forty wrote:
               | We must not use the same internet. Agree is always one
               | click for me, and there is generally no disagree button,
               | but a "manage your privacy settings" button, that opens
               | the biggest popups ever, slow as hell, when then even
               | work,with thousand of button to click.
        
             | adhesive_wombat wrote:
             | Or, blame companies for throwing passive-aggressive
             | shitfits that aim to mislead people. GDPR doesn't mean you
             | have to have an intrusive confusing mess of a cookie
             | banner, for example.
             | 
             | In fact, a confusing banner that makes you play a minigame
             | to get the respect for your personal information that you
             | have a legal right to (in the EU) is explicitly disallowed.
             | 
             | And if you don't want any banners, then don't collect any
             | information you don't have to. If it's actually technically
             | needed, you don't need consent. For example, Wikipedia has
             | lots of cookies for things like UI elements and they don't
             | need a banner.
        
               | scarface74 wrote:
               | That's not really comforting to me as an end user forced
               | to deal with punch the monkey cookie banners everywhere.
        
           | takeda wrote:
           | I don't think it is a good idea. Usually when things like
           | that happen the project will become less and less effective,
           | also once it is so ingrained it will be harder to switch to a
           | new kid in town that is better.
           | 
           | Firefox has its own built in privacy mechanism that is
           | enabled by default and don't prevent me to use uBlock
           | together with it. I prefer that approach.
        
           | Nextgrid wrote:
           | > I still don't understand why Firefox, champion of privacy,
           | doesn't make a uBlock native.
           | 
           | Mozilla's "commitment" to privacy is all talk and no action.
        
           | ericra wrote:
           | Just to make people aware who may not be, you can block a lot
           | of cookie banners and other annoyances that are not blocked
           | in uBlock Origin by default by enabling more specific filter
           | lists in the extension options.
           | 
           | In the "filter lists" tab, I would recommended enabling the
           | "Fanboy's Annoyance" list. It's a huge list that focuses on
           | removing various annoying, recurring website components, and
           | it's created by the maintainer of Easylist (uBlock Origin's
           | primary filter list).
           | 
           | The downside, of course, is that this may in theory break
           | some additional % of websites, but this has not been an issue
           | in my experience.
        
             | meerita wrote:
             | I do that, especially those from onetrust
        
         | telchior wrote:
         | "Have a thought for the maintainers of the various lists. These
         | lists are everything. This can't be emphasized enough."
         | 
         | So you can fund the project -- by donating to the lists it
         | relies on.
        
           | frankharv wrote:
           | While I agree on supporting the things you use. I don't think
           | "the lists are everything". Quite the opposite, Its the
           | blocking features. For me I like uBlocks disabling Javascript
           | with an easy click and the other granularity (popups,
           | multimedia) it allows on a site by site basis.
        
             | helph67 wrote:
             | Please explain how you are able to disable Javascript.
        
               | ericra wrote:
               | To disable javascript for specific site in uBlock Origin,
               | click the extension icon, then click the "more" button in
               | the menu several times until all options are displayed
               | (you only have to do this step once total, not per site).
               | 
               | Once the 5 top menu icons are visible, click the one to
               | the right that looks like </> to disable javascript for
               | the site you're on.
        
             | telchior wrote:
             | I'm thinking of it this way. A guy builds a flamethrower to
             | burn away the creeping slime that threatens to overtake
             | your house. Someone else then supplies the fuel. You want
             | to donate, but the builder says no. "The fuel is
             | everything."
             | 
             | That's pretty much correct from one perspective. The
             | flamethrower is built, just needs a bit of maintenance now
             | and then. But its everyday slime-burning power comes from
             | the fuel.
        
               | mkr-hn wrote:
               | The lists are more like an automatic targeting system for
               | your world-saving flame thrower. Both are vital since the
               | slime killed everyone who knew how to use it, so now you
               | have to enlist average people who only use them to clear
               | weeds and snow.
        
               | Melatonic wrote:
               | When your flamethrower needs to shoot hundreds of
               | thousands of little slime balls all at once using tiny
               | little blasts of flame I think that targeting system
               | becomes pretty damn vital!
        
             | 2muchcoffeeman wrote:
             | As a general life rule, not just for uBlock: help in the
             | way you are asked to help.
        
               | HstryrsrBttn wrote:
        
         | AdmiralAsshat wrote:
         | I can definitely understand his point. Some guy donates a
         | dollar to your project and suddenly they act like you _owe_
         | them the 80 hours required to implement their stupid
         | enhancement request.
        
           | amelius wrote:
           | Just block them then ;)
        
         | pessimizer wrote:
         | It's hard to forget to install it. The first time you open a
         | browser on a new machine and for a moment, for probably the
         | first time in a while, see how the internet really looks,
         | that's the best ad for uBlock Origin.
        
           | trts wrote:
           | The internet with no adblock is a little like driving through
           | Breezewood, Pennsylvania
           | 
           | https://imgur.com/a/qmAxHfk
        
             | louky wrote:
             | Hilariously that won't even load for me on firefox w/ublock
             | origin.
        
             | skrtskrt wrote:
             | that picture only captures, like 5-10% of what you see as
             | you pass through there.
             | 
             | I think it's always ridiculously represented as "hurr this
             | is what America is!"
             | 
             | It has every chain business there because it's the
             | intersection of major highways where there's no other
             | meaningfully-sized rest stops around for hours.
        
             | matheusmoreira wrote:
             | A little. On the internet, the ads actively jump in front
             | of our faces while we're trying to read something. Imagine
             | driving under such conditions.
        
               | banana_giraffe wrote:
               | Be more like this virtual barrier in Sydney:
               | 
               | https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2325904/Water-
               | stop-...
        
             | neogodless wrote:
             | That's actually a pretty famous photo. You can right-click
             | and see a much larger one. Must get that full-sized
             | advertising goodness.
             | 
             | https://www.sothebys.com/en/auctions/ecatalogue/2017/postwa
             | r...
        
       | runjake wrote:
       | What do people use to block garbage domains from their Google
       | results? Google results, especially for developer stuff, is so
       | awful -- cluttered with junk sites ripping off content from blogs
       | and Stack Overflow, etc.
       | 
       | I've been trying to figure out some rules for uBlock Origin, but
       | haven't gotten there, yet.
       | 
       | Edit: Multiple fantastic options in the replies, below. Thanks,
       | people!
        
         | criddell wrote:
         | There are other search engines out there you might want to try.
         | I've been using Kagi and am happy with it. Even though Google
         | is one of their sources (probably the main one), they do things
         | like omit sites that scrape Stack Overflow. They also re-order
         | results assuming their user is tech savvy.
        
         | pwdisswordfish9 wrote:
        
           | pseudostem wrote:
           | There was kagi.com here on HN a few weeks ago, I've been
           | mighty pleased
        
         | AlexandrB wrote:
         | I've noticed this getting worse recently. We went through a
         | sort of "golden era" where most results would be stack
         | overflow, mailing lists, or blogs and now we're almost back to
         | the "expertsexchange.com" days of spammy results for
         | programming queries.
        
         | gzer0 wrote:
         | I've started using
         | https://programmablesearchengine.google.com/about/ which is a
         | programmable, custom search engine that Google provides. I only
         | include sites that I want to. For news, I have a separate
         | search engine; for programming, I include Gitlab, Github, and
         | others. It's quite nice, and you can share your search engines
         | with others via a public URL.
         | 
         | Another example is creating a "social media" only search
         | engine- I have over 50 social media websites in one of my
         | custom searches, it makes it relatively easy to find another
         | person this way.
        
           | freediver wrote:
           | > I have over 50 social media websites
           | 
           | What are the others besides the usual 2-3?
        
             | gzer0 wrote:
             | https://github.com/sherlock-project/sherlock
             | 
             | My list is based on this project. It has over 200 items,
             | many of which I was unaware existed.
        
         | exlurker wrote:
         | I use uBlacklist, and I get a "block this site" option on every
         | Google result. Worth a try, I hope it's legit.
        
         | Pxl_Buzzard wrote:
         | https://github.com/quenhus/uBlock-Origin-dev-filter is a pretty
         | well maintained list specifically to block copycat developer
         | sites.
        
           | wnevets wrote:
           | Not only did I not know this was a list, I also didn't know
           | it was super easy to add new list to uBlock Origin, thanks!
        
         | NmAmDa wrote:
         | uBlacklist
        
         | higuyswearehere wrote:
         | Give ublacklist a try. Very effective to content farm.
        
         | godtoldmetodoit wrote:
         | ublacklist is what I've been using, works well.
        
       | so_fruity wrote:
       | I have a dream that some day all browsers come with builtin
       | uBlock.
       | 
       | I wish I could install it for everybody. Browsing the Web and
       | watching Youtube is such a different experience with adblock.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | Nextgrid wrote:
         | There's an inherent conflict of interest here - much of our
         | computing tools today is built for "growth and engagement"
         | which is why no mainstream browser has it - the only holdouts
         | so far are Apple and Linux distributions.
        
         | SQueeeeeL wrote:
         | I think YouTube has an _okay_ monetization policy, it 's
         | nowhere near as malicious as a random recipe blog with 19 ads
         | and auto playing videos
        
           | 0des wrote:
           | Why is it that after 11PM YouTube will randomly show me ads
           | that are entire movies long, like 90 minutes long? Do they
           | think I am asleep and want to charge their ad client full
           | price for the view?
        
       | 1vuio0pswjnm7 wrote:
       | uMatrix seems even better, but no uMatrix for mobile. Reasons.
        
       | wesapien wrote:
       | I still use a hosts file instead of pihole. The tool is called
       | hblock. I'd use pihole if I can find a deal on a rapsberry pi.
        
       | humanwhosits wrote:
       | Why doesn't firefox build ublock origin directly into firefox
        
       | pthread_t wrote:
       | That makes perfect sense -- browsing the web on desktop without
       | uBlock has become a nightmare.
        
       | AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote:
       | Nothing says "our entire industry[0] is a blight upon human
       | society" like a thriving ecosystem of popular software existing
       | for the sole purpose of _shutting you the hell up_.
       | 
       | [0] advertising and marketing industry
        
         | amartya916 wrote:
         | I _think_ I know why you are being downvoted, but I just wanted
         | to chime in and say that I get exactly where you are coming
         | from. On certain days, I cannot shake a similar thought from my
         | mind as well.
         | 
         | Today though, I'd recommend skimming through uBlock Origin's
         | Github readme: https://github.com/gorhill. Note the "Free. Open
         | source. For users by users. No donations sought." in the About
         | section. Our industry reflects our collective condition: some
         | good, some bad, and some in between. The oft used Mr. Rogers
         | quote about "look for the helpers" seems particularly
         | appropriate for uBlock Origin and its creator (and maintainers
         | :)).
         | 
         | P.S. In case this comes across as a lecture, I assure you that
         | this was just as much for myself as a reminder, as it was for
         | the community here :).
        
           | AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote:
           | Oh, I think I see the issue. If your post is anything to go
           | by then people think I'm talking about tech or even just the
           | web. That's understandable since both are frequently the
           | target of my ire, however in this instance I am specifically
           | talking about the advertising and marketing industry.
        
             | brimble wrote:
             | I think it's fair, considering the sky-high salaries at the
             | top end of our industry are almost _solely_ due to ad
             | revenue. We 'd all see significant downward pressure on
             | wages without that--we're basically accountants by social
             | status already, but losing ad revenue would put us in the
             | same area pay-wise, too.
        
             | amartya916 wrote:
             | Ah sorry, I misunderstood as well. Makes sense!
        
       | openplatypus wrote:
       | uBlock Origin, with CNAME uncloaking is the most powerful
       | ad/tracker blocking tool. Browsing Internet without it is often
       | time a scary experience.
       | 
       | It does block our [Wide Angle
       | Analytics](https://wideangle.co/documentation/track-with-custom-
       | domain) tracker about which we are open about.
       | 
       | And ... we are not against. Every user should have a right to
       | self determination and control when browsing the Internet. Our
       | tracker is not invasive. It does not spy on users across site. We
       | do not facilitate user profiling and personalized Ads. So maybe
       | we should be against? But we are not.
       | 
       | It is your browser. It is your device.
        
         | hanniabu wrote:
         | Is AdBlockPro needed with uBlock or does uBlock do everything
         | ABP does and more?
        
           | stjohnswarts wrote:
           | Ditch adblock pro and use ublock Origin (origin!), you will
           | only be getting more wins and not losing anything. I suggest
           | reading up on the various lists to enable outside of the
           | default ones that are enabled. Don't turn them all on though,
           | that is a LOT of "stuff" to block, even on modern machines
           | and will noticeably slow down your page load.
        
           | Nicksil wrote:
           | >Is AdBlockPro needed with uBlock
           | 
           | Nope
           | 
           | >does uBlock do everything ABP does and more?
           | 
           | Yep
        
           | Melatonic wrote:
           | AdBlockPro has built in allowlists for some advertisers
           | (might be paid on the advertisers side?) and Ublock does not.
           | And from I remember the developer of Ublock might have
           | originally also been involved in AdblockPro and then left? I
           | could be wrong
        
         | ksec wrote:
         | My experience with uBlock or in fact any Ad Blocker have been
         | suboptimal. It sometimes uses a lot of CPU resources in places
         | I dot understand and couldn't be bothered to figure out why.
         | 
         | In the end I just switch to NextDNS.
        
           | freeAgent wrote:
           | NextDNS and uBO are complimentary.
        
             | Melatonic wrote:
             | Agreed
        
         | Nextgrid wrote:
         | Just FYI, the problem with analytics providers like yourself is
         | that even if you don't explicitly intend to spy, you're still
         | collecting a lot of information in a single spot that could
         | allow someone to track the user across websites if it were to
         | leak or be compelled (by law or force - enemy invasion like in
         | Ukraine) to share it.
        
         | 0des wrote:
         | This went from props to a sales pitch fast
        
           | copperx wrote:
           | I'm tired of the tech hustle culture.
        
             | TameAntelope wrote:
             | Yeah, I hate it when people believe in the work they're
             | doing and are eager to talk about it.
             | 
             | Just the worst.
        
               | ouid wrote:
               | You genuinely believe that this guy is passionate about
               | his tracking software and is just eager to share?
        
               | TameAntelope wrote:
               | Yes, absolutely.
               | 
               | Is money a factor? Yes. Do you _need_ passion to make
               | money when building a startup? Yes.
        
               | tomc1985 wrote:
               | Part of me thinks this would be a better place if
               | everyone was prohibited from talking about themselves and
               | their projects. Let the braggarts chest-thump on Product
               | Hunt, that place is already a wasteland
               | 
               | It's like everything tech has to be a dog and pony show
               | nowadays.
        
             | chrisfrantz wrote:
             | Tired of the tech hustle culture? Then check out
             | nomohustle.co a paid newsletter I run on substack.
        
               | Melatonic wrote:
               | Tired of nomohustle.co ? Checkout no-nomohustle.io !
        
         | hef19898 wrote:
         | I'd upvote more than once if I could! If every tracking / ad
         | provider would like that the internet would be a better place!
        
       | CSMastermind wrote:
       | It would be nice if browser makers started bundling ad block by
       | default.
        
         | gilrain wrote:
         | Those that aren't financially supported by the blocked
         | advertising often do.
        
         | zamadatix wrote:
         | Chrome, Edge, Brave, Opera, Vivaldi, and I'm sure others have
         | built in ad blockers and even have it enabled by default.
         | Firefox and Safari do not (they stop at built in privacy
         | tracking).
         | 
         | Of course every single built in blocker is vastly inferior,
         | either intentionally (like Chrome) or just because uBlock
         | Origin is that much better (like Vivaldi).
        
           | bradyd wrote:
           | Where is this built in ad blocker in Chrome? I have never
           | seen this feature.
        
             | zamadatix wrote:
             | It's on by default since 2018 and not very configurable,
             | you can toggle it on a per site basis in the site settings
             | of a site via the "ads" permission for that site. It of
             | course exists to bolster the number of their ads that are
             | viewed not actually block all ads
             | https://blog.google/technology/ads/building-better-web-
             | every...
        
       | boplicity wrote:
       | I really, truly, sincerely wish more developers put
       | _compatibility with adblockers_ at the top of their priority
       | list. I have _so many_ customer support issues to deal with
       | because some of the SaaS platforms we use are not compatible with
       | ad blocking software.
       | 
       | Usually, the first thing I tell people is to _turn off their
       | adblocker._ This almost always fixed the issue. Yes, I absolutely
       | hate asking our customers to do this.
       | 
       | If you want adblocking software to thrive -- then please make
       | sure you test your software with adblocking software enabled.
       | (Please!)
        
         | matheusmoreira wrote:
         | > I have so many customer support issues to deal with because
         | some of the SaaS platforms we use are not compatible with ad
         | blocking software.
         | 
         | That's amazing. I hope this keeps happening until businesses
         | are forced to fix their sites to make it work with uBlock
         | Origin.
        
           | pmoriarty wrote:
           | _" I hope this keeps happening until businesses are forced to
           | fix their sites to make it work with uBlock Origin."_
           | 
           | I very much this is going to happen on a large scale unless
           | there's legislation demanding it.
           | 
           | Businesses want to serve up ads and track their users both
           | because:
           | 
           | 1 - it's profitable
           | 
           | 2 - it gives them insight in to what their users want, so
           | they can improve their products and come up with new ones
           | 
           | Supporting ad blocking goes directly against these two
           | motives, so for most business it won't be done voluntarily.
        
             | matheusmoreira wrote:
             | > for most business it won't be done voluntarily
             | 
             | I'm okay with that.
        
         | LordHeini wrote:
         | Incopabiltiy can happen incredibly fast.
         | 
         | One of our backends had a route called /statistics for showing
         | application statistics to the user.
         | 
         | Some Adblockers with some lists block routes named like that
         | which caused a confused bug hunt.
        
         | stjohnswarts wrote:
         | First thing I show people that I show ad blockers is how to
         | turn them off. I tell them that is the first thing to try if a
         | page gives them hell. Don't call me until you've tried that or
         | you will get (mildly) yelled at, Aunt Janie.
        
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