[HN Gopher] Apple announces 27-inch 5K Studio Display
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Apple announces 27-inch 5K Studio Display
        
       Author : sparshgupta
       Score  : 263 points
       Date   : 2022-03-08 18:56 UTC (4 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.apple.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.apple.com)
        
       | hughrr wrote:
       | Sold. Been waiting for this for years.
       | 
       | Edit: to clarify I will lurk and wait until it is PS200 off on
       | Amazon one day because I don't need it immediately.
        
         | alexashka wrote:
         | For what? A 2014 display for 1600$?
        
           | newaccount74 wrote:
           | Assuming this is the same panel as in the 5k iMac, it's a
           | good panel. It doesn't matter that it's old. What matters is
           | that it works, and that you can actually buy it. There are
           | very few high res displays on the market.
           | 
           | It would be nice if it cost less than 1000EUR, but I guess
           | you can't have everything.
        
         | richiezc wrote:
         | just find somebody that works with apple and use their 25% or
         | 15% off
        
       | valine wrote:
       | No 120hz listed in the tech specs, that's gonna be jarring for
       | people with a M1 macbook pro.
        
         | yokoprime wrote:
         | I hardly notice when switching between my M1Pro monitor and
         | larger 27" monitor. Sure my monitor do support 144Hz, but im
         | running it at 60Hz... because docking station
        
           | Matheus28 wrote:
           | There is a world of difference between 60 Hz and 144 Hz,
           | though. I don't think I can go back to anything less than
           | 120.
        
             | hughrr wrote:
             | Yeah it feels horrible now.
             | 
             | When I got my iPhone 13 pro it cost me an M1 iPad and a 14"
             | MBP because everything felt horrible afterwards.
        
           | noahtallen wrote:
           | I disagree completely. My main monitor is at 144hz, and it's
           | very jarring to switch to my (slightly older) MBP running at
           | 60hz. Not having high refresh rate means this new monitor
           | won't ever be on my short list.
        
             | swah wrote:
             | I feel that while changing from 30hz to 60hz and the latter
             | feels smooth (enough). Never used a higher refresh rate
             | device but wonder how much more can this keep going and
             | humans noticing.
        
         | owenwil wrote:
         | There's a good reason for this: Thunderbolt 4 doesn't have
         | enough port bandwidth. TB4 can carry a max of 30Gbps but 5K @
         | 120hz is 32Gbps. There's no way Apple would do two cables for
         | this, and the next gen of Thunderbolt is a while off, so the
         | choice makes sense.
        
           | noahtallen wrote:
           | Doesn't display stream compression support higher bitrates?
           | Also, I think thunberbolt 4 supports DisplayPort Alt Mode
           | 2.0, which can handle up to like 80Gbps. But I guess that
           | comes at the cost of attaching any other devices other than
           | the monitor.
        
           | fotta wrote:
           | I think your math is off a bit. TB3/4 carries 40Gbps and
           | 5k@120 is 53Gbps (5120 * 2880 * 120hz * 30bits/pixel). But
           | your point still stands :)
        
             | owenwil wrote:
             | Whoops - you're right!
        
           | shadowfacts wrote:
           | DisplayPort 1.4 (which TB3/TB4 support as an alternate mode)
           | has enough bandwidth for 5k at up to 144Hz using display
           | stream compression (which Apple already uses for the Pro
           | Display XDR): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DisplayPort#Refre
           | sh_frequency_...
        
           | EugeneOZ wrote:
           | They've could add a DisplayPort or HDMI 2.1 input to solve
           | it.
        
           | o_m wrote:
           | They could have made it 90hz then
        
             | notriddle wrote:
             | Running a program with fixed-rate 60hz (a lot of games)
             | would cause judder. It's the same sort of reason they don't
             | do 150% scaling; you want integer multiples of the "low-fi"
             | version so that you can upscale without artifacting.
        
               | o_m wrote:
               | A little Pro Motion would've fixed that
        
       | whitepoplar wrote:
       | I wonder if this will work with Linux or Windows.
        
       | throwaway4good wrote:
       | Is this the same LG display unit from the previous generations
       | and used in the LG display sold seperately at one point?
        
       | danielfoster wrote:
       | I can't even see the monitor when I click.
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | fwr wrote:
       | Any mentions of the refresh rate? I've been waiting for a 4K/5K
       | display that supports 120 Hz to pair nicely with my 2021 MBP, but
       | it looks like the only available options so far are funky gaming
       | displays: https://tonsky.me/blog/monitors-mac/
        
         | tehnub wrote:
         | If you sit far enough away from it, you could try a 48 inch LG
         | CX OLED tv. 120 Hz, OLED, 4K
        
         | mholm wrote:
         | Looks like 60hz. I don't think anybody has 5k/120hz working
         | yet.
        
           | iamricks wrote:
           | Yup, i feel like nobody cares about monitor tech, i waited
           | for 4k/120hz IPS for a long time
        
             | mark-r wrote:
             | It's not that nobody cares, it's just that this stuff is
             | genuinely hard. We're too spoiled.
        
         | sa1 wrote:
         | So far, I've been using
         | https://www.acer.com/ac/en/AU/content/conceptd-model/UM.HC1S...
        
         | skadamat wrote:
         | It's almost surely 60hz since they didn't brand it as
         | "ProMotion" display like they did with iPhone, Macbook Pro, and
         | iPad Pro
        
         | owenwil wrote:
         | 60hz, there isn't enough port bandwidth in TB4 to handle 5K @
         | 120hz. Anything coming close to being capable enough is years
         | away still.
        
           | brigade wrote:
           | No, there is with DSC. 144Hz with HDR, or 180Hz with SDR. Or
           | even 240Hz with two HBR2 streams.
        
       | wilg wrote:
       | I hope it has better Windows support than the Pro Display XDR (it
       | won't).
       | 
       | I managed to get the XDR hooked up to Windows at 6K (with a very
       | unusual cable) but you can't adjust it below max brightness so
       | you get a sustained 1000 nits in your face at all times. Also HDR
       | doesn't work. But gaming at 6K is cool af!
       | 
       | Also, this having speakers, camera, and mic is a big step up over
       | the XDR (unfortunately for me).
        
       | wing-_-nuts wrote:
       | No mention of refresh rate, so I'm assuming a 60hz panel, _only_
       | offering usb-c and thunderbolt, no hdmi or display port, and no
       | mention of hdr rating, or mini /micro led backlight zones.
       | Apple's gonna apple i guess. People will still buy it.
        
       | mwambua wrote:
       | Anyone know how the display quality on this stacks up to LG's
       | ultra-fine 5k display?
        
       | rawrmaan wrote:
       | No 12Hz is so unfortunate. Hopefully the next Pro Display XDR
       | will have ProMotion, at the very least.
        
         | mholm wrote:
         | It'll have to wait for a new Thunderbolt Standard to make it to
         | Macs. TB4 tops out at 30GB/s, while 5k/120hz is 32GB/s.
        
         | arthurcolle wrote:
         | 12 Hz haha
        
           | alberth wrote:
           | "12Hz" is about how fast their website refreshed on me on my
           | i7 MacBook Pro.
        
       | arecurrence wrote:
       | Most of the features announced are quite nice but strangely (for
       | an Apple product), the primary feature being the display is
       | simply not. As far as I can tell, it doesn't even have 120 hz let
       | alone a good local dimming implementation.
        
       | gertrunde wrote:
       | Wow that's a painful website... 5 seconds in and I've scrolled to
       | the bottom as fast as possible to get past the fluffy marketing
       | bullshit, in the hope that there were some tech specs of some
       | sort there, then left...
        
       | jimrandomh wrote:
       | It's kind of ridiculous how slow the progress in screen
       | resolutions has been. It's disappointing that Apple is only going
       | for 5k, not 8k; they're well positioned to fix the ecosystem and
       | bring high-resolution large displays to everyone, if only they
       | tried.
       | 
       | I'm finally sitting in front of an 8k 65" screen. This gives me a
       | nice combination of decent picel density in the center and lots
       | of peripheral vision in which to put secondary windows, plus I
       | can sit across the room and watch a movie on it. But every
       | component of the ecosystem introduced problems and friction.
       | 
       | I have an M1 Macbook Pro on the same desk. The Macbook can't
       | drive the 8k TV. I have a separate desktop running Windows with
       | an nVidia GPU for that. Every component of the video ecosystem
       | has given me friction in getting to 8k. I had to swap my $1k
       | nVidia GPU for a different $1k nVidia GPU that wasn't any faster,
       | to get HDMI 2.1 support. Had to use special HDMI cables, because
       | cables that aren't specially marked as HDMI2.1 compatible don't
       | have enough bandwidth. And then the display itself has a
       | ridiculous postprocessing bug (I wrote about it at
       | https://www.rtings.com/tv/discussions/IyO2wLLsNnJCMT-_/firmw...)
       | which makes me think the firmware engineers didn't have a working
       | 8k source to test with.
        
         | risho wrote:
         | maybe i'm just old and blind but i can BARELY even notice the
         | difference between 1440p and 4k if i very explicitly and
         | intentionally look for it let alone the difference between 5k
         | and 8k. this seems like so beyond unnecessary that it's absurd.
         | i might be able to be convinced that you could notice on your
         | 8k 65 inch tv if you were standing right in front of it, but on
         | a 27 inch display that seems incredibly unlikely to me. also
         | what world do we live in where a resolution that is literally
         | above 4k isn't considered high resolution.
        
           | jimrandomh wrote:
           | I sit 2ft from the 8k screen; it fills much more of my
           | peripheral vision than most people's monitors do, and I
           | position most things in the middle and never full-screen
           | anything. Think of it like a multimonitor setup without the
           | seams between monitors.
        
         | adam_arthur wrote:
         | I'm more annoyed by slow progress in refresh rates. Resolutions
         | have progressed pretty nicely IMO, but the top end monitors
         | from Dell, Apple etc still all running at 60hz.
         | 
         | Also feel like 27 inches is pretty small these days, for high
         | productivity type of work. Wish Apple went for a 34 inch
        
         | pedrocr wrote:
         | I've seen this sentiment a lot but it doesn't track with my
         | experience. 4K@60Hz is now common and very cheap (<300EUR for
         | an LG IPS 27'' screen). It definitely wasn't just a few years
         | ago, people even bought weird 4k@30Hz screens as a compromise.
         | 5K is an intermediate step most manufacturers didn't bother
         | with and we're getting 8K now at which point we've pretty much
         | maxed out human vision for almost all applications. As far as I
         | can tell we live in the future and nobody is happy. Maybe it is
         | because very high end screens did 4K and 5K early and stopped
         | there for a while because at that price it was a niche.
         | Meanwhile all the innovation has been on making the cheaper
         | ones reach that same level.
        
         | BoorishBears wrote:
         | This 5k 27" screens blows your 8k 65" screen out if the water
         | at any reasonable viewing distance for a computer monitor...
         | 
         | Nearly no one wants TVs for monitors, the evidence is LG's
         | OLEDs which gamers will take 1440p ultrawides with infinitely
         | worse picture quality over, just for the more reasonable form
         | factor.
        
           | pedrocr wrote:
           | Setting the 8K screen farther away so it fills the same field
           | of view will make it strictly better than the smaller 5K if
           | you can manage it. Same view, more angular resolution and
           | your eyes are focused farther away which reduces eye strain.
        
             | BoorishBears wrote:
             | No it's not, which is why people take $2,000 1440p monitors
             | still.
             | 
             | The "if you can manage it" part is an awkward setup usually
             | with terrible ergonomics (a monitor too far away is worse
             | for posture because you subconsciously tilt forward), it
             | takes a ton of space, it looks hideous
             | 
             | -
             | 
             | Forgive my for my bluntness, but I am _soooo_ tired of
             | every conversation about improving _monitors_ being
             | sidetracked by people act like using a TV-sized TV as a
             | computer monitor is better than strictly anything.
             | 
             | It's like saying using your hand saw as a flat head screw
             | driver is strictly better because it had a larger handle...
             | as long as you can line it up in the screw.
        
               | pedrocr wrote:
               | You may not like it yourself but other people have the
               | opposite experience. Setting the screen farther away and
               | having your eyes focus at that distance is more
               | comfortable for them. That other people choose other
               | solutions doesn't invalidate that this solution exists
               | and is valued by people. And I used the term strictly
               | precisely. If you can manage that setup physically you
               | get the same angle of view, more resolution and less eye
               | strain. The 8K large screen dominates the 5K small screen
               | solution for that set of criteria. If you add other
               | criteria you care about instead the evaluation changes.
        
         | chillingeffect wrote:
         | I'm very sorry for all the trouble you have had to go through
         | in order to have an 8k 65" screen.
        
         | stanmancan wrote:
         | Driving an 8K monitor can be a bit hard on some computers, no?
         | And chaining multiple 8K monitors is an even bigger challenge.
        
           | wmf wrote:
           | If only Apple made an Ultra-powerful computer that could
           | drive 8K...
        
           | jimrandomh wrote:
           | The key feature is "HDMI 2.1 display stream compression",
           | which is only present in very recent GPUs, and without which
           | a computer can't output 8k at all. If it's new enough to have
           | that feature, it's fast enough to handle 8k no problem. I
           | don't typically run videogames at 8k, but I'm sitting close
           | enough that I want them centered in a ~4k window anyways
           | rather than filling my peripheral vision.
        
       | minimaxir wrote:
       | Webcam and sound aside, the display specs seems very similar to
       | the LG Ultrafine 5k released all the way back in 2017 for $1299:
       | https://www.apple.com/shop/product/HMUB2LL/A/lg-ultrafine-5k...
       | 
       | The Studio Display is an additional $300.
        
         | bin_bash wrote:
         | Presumably with a much worse webcam and speakers. It's also
         | ugly black plastic compared to the aluminum construction of the
         | Apple display.
        
           | ericmay wrote:
           | No webcam or microphone in the LG displays. Well the 4k at
           | least. I assume the 5k is the same. It does have speakers.
           | They're ok for the price point but not notable. It's also
           | basically unsupported as far as software is concerned. You
           | can't connect an iPad to it for example. Or at least I can't
           | anymore. Sound would play but not screen mirroring.
        
             | fotta wrote:
             | The 5k has a webcam and mic. The webcam is much higher
             | quality than my MBP's too.
        
               | ericmay wrote:
               | Interesting. Thanks for the info. I guess I should have
               | been less lazy and just looked that up before posting.
               | When I was looking at both the 4k and 5k it was
               | completely lost on me that it had those features. Dang! I
               | don't need 5k (or 4k really but w/e) but would have liked
               | to have had the webcam and mic.
        
             | brasetvik wrote:
             | The 4k does not. The 5k has a webcam, microphone and
             | speakers.
        
             | sprite wrote:
             | I have the 5K LG monitors, they have camera and mic.
        
         | vesrah wrote:
         | I have two of these. They are plagued with bezel cracking,
         | uniformity, and other issues.
        
           | minimaxir wrote:
           | True, there are QA issues reported with it. (FWIW I've had
           | mine since 2017 and only starting to hit random connectivity
           | issues now, but 5 years isn't a bad run for a heavily-used
           | monitor)
        
           | hinkley wrote:
           | Benq's is pretty good but whoever stuck those checkbox-
           | filling speakers into the design is making a cruel joke at
           | everyone else's expense. I get better sound out of my phone.
           | Way, way better sound.
        
           | throwaway4good wrote:
           | Plus they are not on sale anymore, at least when I was
           | looking.
           | 
           | I am guessing this replaces it.
           | 
           | Not really other alternatives out there (displays in 5k).
        
         | dewey wrote:
         | Based on the reviews of the LG Ultrafine that extra $300 really
         | are worth. Alone for not having a stand as shaky as the
         | Ultrafine one.
        
           | bradlys wrote:
           | For these types of displays - you shouldn't really ever be
           | using the stand that it comes with anyway. Monitor arms are
           | ubiquitous and known. They do much better job of holding a
           | monitor than the stands that come with most monitors.
        
             | dewey wrote:
             | That's a "you are holding it wrong" kinda argument. If you
             | pay 1.5k for a monitor you should be able to expect a stand
             | that doesn't shake if you bump into your table a bit.
        
         | geodel wrote:
         | Ah, so good opportunity for folks looking to save 300 dollars
         | and still want to buy display from Apple.
        
         | minhazm wrote:
         | Yeah there was no mention of local dimming or refresh rate so
         | it seems more like a refresh of that display with the new Apple
         | design. Though for refresh rate I kind of understand since I
         | don't think there are any 5k 120hz displays on the market. I
         | also noticed that it only has a single thunderbolt port, so I'm
         | not sure if you can daisy chain the displays. Even just adding
         | local dimming would have been a huge difference maker but it
         | likely would cannibalize the Pro Display XDR sales.
        
       | cehrlich wrote:
       | Glad that Apple is finally back in the game of making monitors
       | that don't cost $6k.
       | 
       | Now make the same thing, but 6880x2880 ultrawide.
        
       | deergomoo wrote:
       | I wish they would just make a normal display. I'm currently using
       | a 27" 1440p display which has some nice features, USB power
       | delivery for single-cable video/charging/data, and really
       | excellent colour accuracy, but the pixel density is just garbage
       | compared to my MacBook. Using them both at the same time is
       | jarring (especially since macOS dropped subpixel antialiasing.
       | Text looks noticeably less blocky when hooked up to a Windows
       | machine).
       | 
       | I don't need a monitor with an embedded iPhone CPU and six
       | speakers, I just need the panel out of an old 27" iMac that
       | doesn't cost more than the damned computer driving it. I can't
       | even get an LG UltraFine anymore, they were discontinued outside
       | of the US ages ago.
        
       | markkanof wrote:
       | The purchase page seems really confusing compared to how they
       | typically do things. Typically, when purchasing something like a
       | Macbook, you select the base model and then some of the upgrades
       | are listed at + $XXX.00. That combined with the fact that the XDR
       | display stand cost so much, I thought they were charging and
       | additional $1599 for the VESA adapter. I was momentarily
       | absolutely furious until I realized that the VESA adapter is a no
       | additional cost option.
        
       | xavxav wrote:
       | I'm happy that they finally released this monitor, it felt weird
       | that you could get an imac which was sleeker than any existing
       | screen, but does anyone know of more affordable alternatives?
       | 
       | This may be a bit weird/niche but I care a lot about the
       | thickness of the monitor itself, the depth of the stand and the
       | bezel around the screen. I'd like if the object I spend 8 hours a
       | day staring at isn't aesthetically horrendous..
        
       | FpUser wrote:
       | I would get 5K display if it is 35-40", 27" - no way
        
       | pclark wrote:
       | Can anyone help me understand how I'd connect this to a PC? Would
       | I need a GPU with Thunderbolt 4 or does the motherboard need
       | Thunderbolt 4 and the PC somehow magically utilises the GPU via
       | that motherboard display anyway?
        
         | julianbuse wrote:
         | If the prodisplay xdr is anything to go by, you wouldn't. That
         | could only connect to PC's with thunderbolt, but because the
         | monitor controls were built into macOS, you couldn't change any
         | settings or use it at its native resolution.
        
         | nickpp wrote:
         | The question is if there is any PC video card able to connect
         | to this display.
        
       | brandonmenc wrote:
       | Sad that the Thunderbolt port is perpendicular to the display,
       | like on the LG Ultrafine.
       | 
       | Super fragile, especially if you have the monitor on an arm and
       | move it around a lot.
        
         | tstrimple wrote:
         | Apple accounted for this by making sure none of their monitors
         | have a standard VESA mount.
        
           | manuelabeledo wrote:
           | They do, they are sold separately.
        
             | kitsunesoba wrote:
             | The VESA mount is actually a no-extra-cost configuration
             | option on the Studio Display.
        
       | ericmay wrote:
       | Unfortunately I bought an LG 4k display from Apple last year (or
       | was it the year before?) for home office work so it'll be a tough
       | sell to buy something new, but this solves a couple of my
       | problems with my home office setup, namely having to put in
       | headphones with a mic for every video call since I use my Mac in
       | clamshell mode, and having an external webcam mounted on my
       | monitor. This is very close to "one cable to rule them all"
       | setup. Maybe I'll just have to save some of my allowance for a
       | bit :P
        
       | techpression wrote:
       | For all the work Apple is doing to improve their environmental
       | impact (which I applaud) I'm completely flabbergasted as to why
       | this is a single device monitor. It's quite the impact on the
       | environment to require users who have a Mac mini/Studio and a
       | MacBook Pro to buy two monitors (no matter how great the
       | production chain is). Sure, you can plug/unplug the cable, but
       | that works so-so on a Studio with the ports on the back.
       | 
       | Everything else I could've lived with, this is a major omission
       | :(
        
         | gen220 wrote:
         | Can you not use a thunderbolt switch?
         | 
         | In my home office, I've got two monitors and a switch to flick
         | input between a personal machine and a work machine.
        
           | kitsunesoba wrote:
           | Last I looked, Thunderbolt switches were prohibitively
           | expensive and only made by oddball companies. My solution is
           | a Thunderbolt dock (CalDigit TS3+/TS4+, ThinkPad Thunderbolt
           | 4 Dock, etc) along with a TB cable for each machine that I
           | swap the connection to the dock with as needed. Since it's a
           | single cable swap, it's not much of an inconvenience.
        
           | spudlyo wrote:
           | I use an IOGEAR Thunderbolt 2 KVM[0] that lets you switch
           | thunderbolt between two computers. I use this in conjunction
           | with three TB2 -> TB3 adapters[1] and a CalDigit TS3+[2]
           | (which drives my DisplayPort monitor). It's janky, but it
           | works, and I don't really notice the speed difference
           | dropping down to TB2 speeds since the only TB3 peripheral I
           | hang off the CalDigit is an audio interface.
           | 
           | At some point I actually had a TB2 only computer I wanted to
           | KVM switch with a TB3 laptop so this weird setup made more
           | sense then.
           | 
           | [0]: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01M74Y03E
           | 
           | [1]: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01MQ26QIY
           | 
           | [2]: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07CZPV8DF
        
           | techpression wrote:
           | Do they actually work well (I actually want to know)? I once
           | started looking into something like that and it seemed to be
           | all pain and suffering to get it to work or it having weird
           | behaviours.
           | 
           | If you have a product that you know work I'm all ears, it
           | would make my life a lot easier.
        
             | gen220 wrote:
             | I currently do this with HDMIs (I somehow make do with a
             | measley 4K monitors).
             | 
             | I assumed such a thing existed for thunderbolt but hadn't
             | looked into it; it looks like you're right that this market
             | is underdeveloped at present. Hopefully somebody does it!
             | Or, the wisdom of HN will yield us some options.
             | 
             | Otherwise, if you're willing to settle for affordable
             | retina-quality monitors, this is the one I use:
             | https://camelcamelcamel.com/product/B01LPNKFK0. Cribbed
             | from this post which made the HN rounds not too long ago:
             | https://www.caseyliss.com/2021/12/7/monitor-liss
        
         | newaccount74 wrote:
         | Doesn't the Mac Studio have a Thunderbolt 4 port on the front?
        
         | bradlys wrote:
         | Is this not quite niche?
         | 
         | What about the environmental impact of adding extra ports that
         | no one is going to use?
        
           | _ph_ wrote:
           | I would need to share the screen too between my laptop and my
           | desktop mac, so, no. Homeoffice is a thing these days and
           | that means, you need to connect a screen to your work
           | computer. I would rather not have the additional USB ports on
           | the screen (though they are nice) than not having a second
           | input. And giving that the screen has an A13 on its own, it
           | would have the ability for nice handling multiple inputs,
           | e.g. PIP or nice switching of keyboard/mouse attached.
        
           | techpression wrote:
           | As already mentioned, people working from home would benefit
           | from this a lot, and KVM monitors for two machines have been
           | a thing for at least a decade (Dell, Eizo, BenQ amongst
           | others have been offering them so there's clearly a market).
           | And even if it wasn't very used, the environmental cost of
           | just one extra monitor would be many many unused ports.
        
         | ballenf wrote:
         | Use the remote control technology in the latest MacOS. It will
         | allow the keyboard and mouse from the Studio to control the
         | laptop. Even more environmentally friendly than having an extra
         | cable.
        
           | goosedragons wrote:
           | Just have two devices on instead of one. So much more
           | environmentally friendly than an extra cable or two.
        
           | techpression wrote:
           | But that doesn't work for the display, only the input
           | devices. What I want is what I have now, two devices
           | connected to the same display.
        
           | newaccount74 wrote:
           | I've been using 2 machines with universal control (it works
           | pretty well in the latest betas), and it's quite neat.
           | 
           | Unexpected side effect: Two machines allow you to keep
           | working while installing system updates, which seem to take
           | forever nowadays.
        
       | hultner wrote:
       | Am I missing something or is this basically the 6-7 year old LG
       | UltraFine 5k 27" with some extra bells and whistles?
        
       | JOnAgain wrote:
       | I'm so tempted, but I've been on 32" and 34" for years now, I
       | just don't think I could go to 27" again. I am dying for a great
       | high end monitor with charging for my laptop, integrated camera
       | and speakers. I loved my old cinema display. I really want this,
       | just a bit bigger.
        
       | gorjusborg wrote:
       | I don't have much to say on the monitor, but that experience
       | reminded me that Apple's web design sensibilities are atrocious.
        
       | homarp wrote:
       | it says "Powered by Apple silicon. The A13 Bionic chip enables
       | innovative Studio Display features like Center Stage, Spatial
       | Audio, and "Hey Siri.""
       | 
       | Anyone knows what OS does the screen run ? embedded iOS ?
        
       | yudlejoza wrote:
       | How is this news? Apple has had the exact specs (27 in, 5K res)
       | available since something like 5-7 years ago, both as a stand-
       | alone monitor and as an iMac.
        
         | rewtraw wrote:
         | this is a new product.
         | 
         | sure, it may be a middle ground between the existing Pro XDR
         | and 5K LG Ultrafine displays, but this is something that was
         | just announced today, hence "news".
        
       | danielvf wrote:
       | I've worked off Apple Cinema displays since the '90s and Apple
       | Studio displays before that. I am a monitor snob. I care deeply
       | how things look.
       | 
       | I currently have an Apple XDR Pro monitor. It's not a great
       | monitor - it is indeed big, the outside is as cool as anything
       | ever made, and the USB-C hub is nice. But in EVERY other way it
       | is badly inferior to the stock 5K monitor that comes with even
       | the cheapest 27" iMac from a few years ago. I've been wishing for
       | just an 27" iMac monitor that I can plug into my laptop, since
       | that's the best non-laptop monitor I've found - even contemplated
       | building a Frankenstein one. I'm excited I can now just buy one.
        
         | hultner wrote:
         | I've been tempted to buy the XDR, would love to hear your
         | opinions. Rocking a couple of LG UF 27" 5k's today.
        
         | newaccount74 wrote:
         | What's bad about the XDR?
        
           | oppegard wrote:
           | I'm not the OP but I've had an XDR for about a month now,
           | which replaced a 27" LG UltraFine 5K (same panel as the one
           | used on 27" iMac for years). My issue with the XDR is the
           | lack of built-in camera, mic, and speakers that are
           | serviceable for zoom calls.
           | 
           | I don't need audiophile stuff, but it's remarkable how bad
           | the built-in AV was on the LG UltraFine. Mic quality is bad
           | enough that I won't inflict it on my co-workers. The camera
           | is angled too low, resulting in the top of my head usually
           | being cut off. And the speakers go from quiet to really loud,
           | with no in-between.
        
       | LocalPCGuy wrote:
       | I wish Apple would use their clout to move up in size. I've been
       | waiting for a nice 32" monitor or larger for a while at a
       | reasonable price. Currently using a 4K 39" TV as a monitor (had
       | to contort the settings to get the text readable, etc.) Probably
       | has something to do with panel yields and profit, sadly (but
       | understandably). That said (and acknowledged, I'm not generally
       | an Apple person), I see very little reason to buy Apply monitors,
       | from a price perspective I just don't see them as a value and see
       | many extremely comparable monitors that work great with Apple
       | computers.
        
         | aldanor wrote:
         | I'd happily pay $3k-$4k if they simply glued _two_ 27 '' Studio
         | displays together, effectively making it a 32:9 49'' ultrawide.
         | Come on, Apple.
        
         | ramses0 wrote:
         | I've been very happy with this monitor for quite a while
         | (probably 2017-ish):
         | https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01MY142C0/
         | 
         | ...although fair warning it does have occasional "flickering
         | maroon blankouts" (1-2x...3-4x per day?). AFAIK they're
         | basically two panels side-by-side so sometimes my right-side-
         | one will "blip" for half a second. (search flicker in the
         | reviews/questions).
         | 
         | Find one you're happy with, and check the reviews! The
         | difference between "monitor" and "TV" is massive w.r.t.
         | latency.
        
       | coolso wrote:
       | Finally an AR coating on a monitor without the grainy sparkly
       | look! I bought 3 highly rated monitors last year and returned all
       | but one because the anti reflective coatings were visually
       | distracting and made the screen look dirty and unsharp. The one I
       | kept still has the effect, but to an "acceptable" degree relative
       | to the others and I was tired of returning monitors.
       | 
       | Hopefully other manufacturers will follow suit - or at least
       | start releasing glossy monitors as an option, for people who
       | don't want to view things through an ugly grainy sparkly coating.
        
         | mateo1 wrote:
         | The thing is, for most people a glossy monitor with an AR
         | coating is a good compromise, since reflections are a lot more
         | distracting than a slightly matte finish. For a studio monitor
         | this isn't a consideration, but in general the finish is
         | mentioned in the specifications.
        
           | coolso wrote:
           | The problem is, some monitors aren't "slightly matte" - many
           | are very matte, and you can't tell just how matte they are
           | into you receive them, since the finish is always just called
           | "matte".
           | 
           | Glossy isn't ideal but I'd definitely take it over spending
           | $500 on a 4K ultra sharp display only to view everything
           | through a fine layer of grainy rainbow colored dust.
           | 
           | Apple's nano-matte technology seems like it could be a
           | wonderful albeit expensive compromise, but I know I and many
           | others are willing to pay the premium.
        
       | black_puppydog wrote:
       | I realize that as a staunch Linux user I'm not in their target
       | demographic, but... wow that website is slightly motion sickness
       | inducing. Is it as bad to scroll through this on a mac as it is
       | on linux? I use a mouse with an actual wheel, maybe they don't
       | optimize for that kind of legacy device...?
       | 
       | Edit: it's also just so hard to scroll exactly to the points
       | where the information is presented. I just mostly end up at
       | points that are meaningless transitions... So confusing...
        
         | ifaxmycodetok8s wrote:
         | only seems to look or work "good" when you just scroll by
         | holding down the arrow keys
        
         | DougMellon wrote:
         | I am on a Mac (M1 Air) and it's not the greatest experience.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | rchaud wrote:
         | It's laggy on Firefox in in a 2014 MBP as well. I won't blame
         | Apple, this is just the state of web animation with CSS3 and
         | Lottie.
         | 
         | Weird to think that Flash handled this kind of animation
         | seamlessly on browsers 15 years ago.
        
           | black_puppydog wrote:
           | I don't think (for me) the issue is how smooth the scrolling
           | is. It's the fact that these animations are there at all.
           | Like... who _wants_ to see these? They add nothing and add
           | huge visual confusion...
        
           | dagmx wrote:
           | Flash then wasn't dealing with as high resolution content
           | though
        
             | rchaud wrote:
             | We barely had dual-core processors back then. It's fair to
             | assume that Flash's capabilities would have improved with
             | hardware advances.
        
         | Toutouxc wrote:
         | Mac pointing devices have step-less and inertial scrolling, so
         | the scrolling itself is effortless, but the framerate of the
         | "video" is too low, so it's either not fluid enough unless you
         | scroll like crazy.
        
         | fomine3 wrote:
         | Even if it worked perfectly, it's bad design.
        
         | wwalexander wrote:
         | I feel like everyone immediately realized what a terrible UX
         | scrolljacking provides when the trend started, but Apple has
         | pressed on despite their (in my opinion) otherwise thoughtful
         | UX design.
        
         | dmitriid wrote:
         | > Is it as bad to scroll through this on a mac as it is on
         | linux
         | 
         | It is. Despite their investment in desktop hardware (finally!)
         | they completely forgot how to do desktop software. Ten years
         | ago all those animations where buttery smooth even if they were
         | a weird custom "video" code that assembled them out of separate
         | PNGs.
        
           | izolate wrote:
           | FYI the Studio Display website was outsourced to an agency,
           | and not developed in-house by Apple engineers. Outsourcing
           | rarely improves the quality of software.
        
             | dmitriid wrote:
             | This is even worse
        
         | jimbob45 wrote:
         | If you middle-click and scroll down smoothly, it's a better
         | experience (provided you nail the right speed). However,
         | there's a bunch of text you miss doing it that way.
        
       | EugeneOZ wrote:
       | Thank you, Apple, but no:
       | 
       | - only 60hz;
       | 
       | - no DisplayPort/HDMI;
       | 
       | - anti-glare coating (I hate the blurriness of matte displays).
        
       | Thaxll wrote:
       | Are people really paying 1.6k for a 60hz monitor?
        
         | aryamaan wrote:
         | Any suggestions for good 27 inches monitor which works with Mac
        
         | kitsunesoba wrote:
         | Different priorities. People buying these are looking for good
         | specs in color reproduction, contrast (as far as is possible
         | without FALD backlighting), and perhaps most importantly
         | _consistent QC_.
         | 
         | If you look at reviews for just about any model of monitor
         | released in the past 5-6 years QC has been atrocious, with dead
         | pixels, backlight bleed, and other odd issues being
         | commonplace, making it a challenge to get a unit that's good
         | all around. This has been especially true for the display that
         | this is most directly replacing (LG Ultrafine 5k).
        
         | moooo99 wrote:
         | Show me a higher/same resolution display with a higher refresh
         | rate. I'd genuinely curious. I've been searching for a new
         | monitor for a few weeks and can't find anything with 4K and
         | more than 60Hz refresh rate.
        
           | nwidynski wrote:
           | https://www.amazon.com/LG-27GN950-B-Ultragear-Response-
           | Compa...
        
             | moooo99 wrote:
             | As the other comment pointed out, that is not an apples to
             | apples comparison. The monitor you linked is a UHD one
             | (3840 x 2160 pixels, around 8.3 megapixels) with a pixel
             | density of ~200 ppi. The display showcased by Apple has a
             | resolution of 5K (5120 x 2880 pixels, around 14.75
             | megapixels) with a pixel density of 217 ppi. Also, based on
             | my experiences with LG gaming monitors I would assume that
             | the Apple display also has a significantly better color
             | accuracy.
             | 
             | If you would have taken a second to look at the specs and
             | search for actually comparable products you would find that
             | there are, at least to my knowledge, no displays with the
             | same resolution and higher refresh rates. This makes sense
             | because 5k@60Hz already has incredibly high bandwidth
             | requirements.
             | 
             | The best actually comparable product is an LG UltraFine 5K
             | which comes in at 1,499EUR msrp which is 246EUR cheaper
             | than Apple's Studio Display at 1,745EUR msrp. Oh, and to no
             | ones surprise, it also has a 60 Hz refresh rate.
             | 
             | So to answer your initial question: Yes, people do spend
             | that kind of money on displays with "only" 60Hz.
        
             | woobar wrote:
             | This one is almost half the resolution. UHD vs 5K
        
         | dagmx wrote:
         | Production monitors tend to not be high refresh rate, across
         | the industry.
        
       | ushakov wrote:
       | > studio-quality three-mic array
       | 
       | but will i be able to record an album on it? are those three-mic
       | condenser microphones? i guess not
       | 
       | Apple should really stop abusing the word "Studio"
        
       | hackerlink99 wrote:
       | Guys I'm thinking of buying it: WILL I BE ABLE TO CONNECT MY XBOX
       | TO IT? This question is super important to me. Thanks!
        
         | minimaxir wrote:
         | In this case it's unclear; it requires Thunderbolt in, and any
         | TB-to-HDMI adapter used will likely cause issues.
        
       | systemvoltage wrote:
       | No direct ICC profile is a terrible decision by Apple. Same with
       | Apple Pro Display XDR. It's opposite of being pro.
        
       | etcet wrote:
       | The height adjustable stand is $400 more than just the tilt
       | adjustable stand. Truly revolutionary.
        
         | swagasaurus-rex wrote:
         | About the same price as the college textbooks I use to prop up
         | my existing monitors
        
       | sys_64738 wrote:
       | How thick are those bezels?
        
       | humanwhosits wrote:
       | The website doesn't scroll properly
        
       | DCKing wrote:
       | I like this announcement, because it means that there's a
       | manufacturing line for proper HiDPI [1] displays running in some
       | LG factory somewhere that third party manufactures like
       | LG/Dell/Iiyama can hopefully use to give us some fresh good-
       | looking 27" 5K desktop monitors. It boggles my mind how little
       | attention very high pixel density displays have been getting from
       | PC display manufacturers. I would also be first in line for a PC
       | monitor that uses the M1 iMac display, but I suppose nobody sees
       | a market for higher end 24" monitors anymore.
       | 
       | [1]: HiDPI displays that work correctly with macOS' and Linux
       | desktop's naive HiDPI implementation, that requires 2x scaling
       | for good results.
       | 
       | Nobody in 2022 will sell you a monitor that does that, except for
       | Apple's expensive stuff that is hard to use with regular PCs and
       | one over the top Dell display. I wish everyone did what ChromeOS
       | or modern Windows apps do. I need that extremely crisp font
       | rendering in my life.
        
         | wyuenho wrote:
         | This is likely a mini-LED screen that Apple has been putting
         | into the iPad Pro and MBPs, which is not a technology LG
         | possesses. This is likely manufactured in Taiwan or China or
         | Germany, using the licensed technology from Taiwan's Epistar.
        
           | seanmcdirmid wrote:
           | There is no evidence for that. It is more than likely an LG
           | display, as Apple has been rumored to work be working with LG
           | on Apple branded displays, and they are the only producer (so
           | far) of 27 inch 5K displays.
        
         | orangecat wrote:
         | Yes. My desktop is using a janky 5k display with dozens of dead
         | subpixels, and still it was the best option available at the
         | time (and it now seems to be discontinued). It's impressive how
         | the supposedly diverse PC ecosystem completely fails to deliver
         | in certain areas; see also reasonably sized Android phones.
        
         | dijit wrote:
         | Apple have always been the first to push higher resolution
         | devices for as long as I've been alive.
         | 
         | Laptops in the early 2010's were stuck on 1336x768 until Apple
         | kicked up a fuss about having "retina", same with phones which
         | had comically low resolutions until Apple made a fuss about it
         | with the iPhone 4.
         | 
         | Sadly my eyes aren't as good as they used to be so I can't make
         | a lot of use of the extra real-estate, but it always seems as
         | if they're ahead when it comes to resolutions on consumer
         | devices.
        
           | JohnHaugeland wrote:
           | Dell's 6 year old 8k UP3218 has entered the chat
        
           | goosedragons wrote:
           | The ThinkPad R50p had a QXGA screen (2048x1536) option back
           | in 2003. Granted Windows had zilch support for it which is
           | probably why it died. Even the base model was a 1600x1200
           | screen. And there was plenty of phones with 200+ ppi before
           | the iPhone 4. I think it has more to do with higher PPI
           | screens getting cheaper and Apple could just get more supply
           | first...
        
             | dijit wrote:
             | That was an extreme outlier, the r-series is an uncommonly
             | deployed thinkpad line.
             | 
             | Check the t- or x- series which are many many orders of
             | magnitude wider deployed.
        
               | goosedragons wrote:
               | You could get a 1600x1200 T60p too...
        
         | digisign wrote:
         | I have a 24"(61cm) 4k Dell monitor with Ubuntu... it is a bit
         | unique these days, don't think there are many others around.
         | Mostly happy with it, but...
         | 
         | I'd rather have _higher_ density like the laptop it is
         | connected to, with 4k. Perhaps 200dpi 3:2 or 16:10 around ~22
         | "(56cm) diagonal that can do portrait would be my preferred
         | monitor. Haven't seen that around unfortunately.
        
           | radicaldreamer wrote:
           | There was an LG Ultrafine 21.5" 4k display which was the same
           | DPI as the MacBook's screen, but it's been long discontinued
           | (along with that model of the iMac, which was what the
           | display was originally destined for)
        
           | DCKing wrote:
           | I've been searching for those, but they're unobtanium even
           | second hand. I suppose no-one wants to get rid of these
           | monitors once they have them, because there's no replacements
           | you can buy.
        
             | hultner wrote:
             | Yeah, I used to have 3 of them, really miss them. Got 2x5k
             | now but really prefer the 21.5" DCI-4k.
        
           | seanmcdirmid wrote:
           | I would love have a 24" 4K rather than a 28" 4K, but sunk
           | costs. The 24" imac is 4K, and has a similar DPI to the 27"
           | 5K imac.
        
         | mrtksn wrote:
         | The PC market seems to be driven by the gamers and the word on
         | the gamers street is that it's all about latency.
         | 
         | I actually like extra wide displays. There are few interesting
         | options like that but the rest seems to be dominated by low
         | color, low resolution, low latency stuff.
        
           | smileybarry wrote:
           | Once you get used to low-latency or high-refresh-rate
           | displays, you can't not notice the subtle mouse cursor drag
           | of a "early days" 4K display (had one at work), or the
           | _teeny_ delay of (most) Dell monitors. Honestly considered at
           | asome point just asking work to get me a high-Hz display.
        
           | raydev wrote:
           | > it's all about latency.
           | 
           | Not just latency, but framerate too.
           | 
           | I wanted to build a gaming PC that would double as a Windows
           | dev machine, so I wanted more pixels than 1080p.
           | 
           | Even with my 3090, I can only reasonably do 1440p @ 240Hz,
           | and even then I lose some frames on Fortnite with graphics
           | settings turned down. 4k was out. Thankfully Alienware makes
           | a very nice 1440p 240Hz monitor.
        
         | mywittyname wrote:
         | > It boggles my mind how little attention very high pixel
         | density displays have been getting from PC display
         | manufacturers.
         | 
         | Didn't Apple corner the market on these displays by buying up
         | all available capacity for retinas?
        
           | notriddle wrote:
           | They cornered the market on TSMC's highest node, also. This
           | means AMD still gets to benefit from the process
           | improvements, offset by one gen.
        
         | radicaldreamer wrote:
         | They've had the iMac line using these displays forever and it
         | hasn't filtered down to other display makers. Only LG via the
         | ultrafine line has used these densities (also Windows and Linux
         | support is lacking or janky)
        
           | DCKing wrote:
           | Iiyama [1], Dell [2] and LG used a 27" 5K iMac display for a
           | little while, but as production at Apple wound down you can
           | no longer really buy those in most places.
           | 
           | [1]: https://www.anandtech.com/show/12568/iiyamas-prolite-
           | xb2779q...
           | 
           | [2]: https://www.dell.com/ae/business/p/dell-
           | up2715k-monitor/pd
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | adrianmsmith wrote:
       | Would be nice to have >5K resolutions to have more pixel density.
       | 
       | Alas, macOS doesn't support any native scaling other than 100%
       | and 200%. So if they did release e.g. a 27" 8K monitor, the text
       | would either be too small, or they'd have to use bitmap scaling
       | to make it bigger in which case there'd be no advantage of having
       | an 8K monitor.
       | 
       | (EDIT: To clarify, all other scaling factors are done by
       | rendering at either 100% or 200% and doing bitmap scaling up or
       | down. By bitmap scaling 200% up up to e.g. 250%, things are
       | bigger so that's good, but there's no extra detail being
       | displayed, so you're wasting the resolution of your monitor. You
       | might as well buy a cheaper monitor with fewer but larger
       | pixels.)
       | 
       | I really don't understand why they don't either (a) adopt
       | Windows' approach of allowing rendering directly to any arbitrary
       | scale, or (b) at least introduce a 300% mode with bitmap scaling
       | analogous to their 100% and 200% modes.
        
         | astrange wrote:
         | Your suggestion was tried for years and failed every time
         | because it doesn't work. HiDPI shipped because it was 2x or
         | nothing. (Later there was 3x.)
         | 
         | The reason Windows developers still think it might work is they
         | have no taste and don't care about localized UI, pixel cracks,
         | or blurry bitmap controls.
        
           | naikrovek wrote:
           | nah, hidpi on Windows is fine if you know what you're doing
           | as an application developer. it's those who haven't bothered
           | to make the changes recommended or required that make windows
           | hidpi support look worse than it is in single-monitor setups.
           | 
           | multiple monitors on Windows with varying dpi scales is not
           | great though, and probably can't be until some backwards
           | compatibility promises are broken or expired.
        
             | nickpp wrote:
             | In the latest Windows 11 there are a bunch of native OS
             | dialog which are not high-dpi aware and look pixelated on
             | my 4K monitor.
             | 
             | If even Microsoft can't be bothered, what do you expect
             | from app developers?!
        
             | solarmist wrote:
             | >nah, hidpi on Windows is fine... Exactly, it's fine.
             | 
             | Apple has never settled for "fine" either it's great or it
             | gets cuts at some point.
             | 
             | >if you know what you're doing as an application developer.
             | Apple also tends to avoid wading into footgun waters to
             | keep quality (for 3rd party devs) as high as possible
             | across the board.
        
             | xenadu02 wrote:
             | > nah, hidpi on Windows is fine if you know what you're
             | doing as an application developer.
             | 
             | Many (most?) don't or can't be bothered so the end result
             | in practice is that it doesn't work. Microsoft has been
             | chasing the HiDPI fairy for decades and the situation
             | hasn't really gotten better. They still ship software (both
             | in and outside the OS) that isn't HiDPI aware.
             | 
             | Retina prioritizes making it easy for developers to adopt:
             | Double the size of artwork, points are 2 pixels, Done. Are
             | there quibbles? Sure. But millions of people are looking at
             | HiDPI screens where every single thing in the OS and all
             | third party apps they use fully support 2x.
             | 
             | No one lives in the magical world where arbitrary scaling
             | factors are supported. Doing that as a developer is just
             | too damn complicated when @1x + @2x (and maybe @3x) makes
             | 98% of people happy and is vastly less work.
        
               | astrange wrote:
               | > Microsoft has been chasing the HiDPI fairy for decades
               | and the situation hasn't really gotten better.
               | 
               | Well, I want to say it has gotten better. Their Metro
               | design is what a UI has to look like to work with
               | arbitrary scales and still solve those problems I
               | mentioned. The downsides are it uses simple geometric
               | shapes and has tons of whitespace everywhere so text can
               | reflow in longer languages.
               | 
               | This is probably another big reason behind "flat design"
               | in modern websites, the old skuomorphic (sp) stuff would
               | be hard to do with vectors.
               | 
               | (As for vectors in UI, they have other performance issues
               | which are important if you like live resizing windows.)
        
         | pcr910303 wrote:
         | Macs does support non-integer scaling. In fact, macOS currently
         | ships non-integer scaling by default in certain MBP models. It
         | gets criticized from time to tome, though the newer 14/16" MBPs
         | ship 200% as default again.
        
           | NobodyNada wrote:
           | Unless things changed since last I checked ~2 years ago,
           | macOS's 150% scaling actually renders at 300% and downscales.
           | It looks pretty bad (visible aliasing on any kind of text)
           | and is wasteful performance-wise.
        
             | TingPing wrote:
             | That's just how to do it. You scale extra information down.
             | Anything else doesn't work outside of vector based formats.
        
             | pombrand wrote:
             | it actually looks great on the LG 5k giving you 2880 pixels
             | across and there's no significant performance hit w a M1
             | macbook air.
        
             | [deleted]
        
             | newaccount74 wrote:
             | As far as I know, it's worse, it renders at 200% and
             | downscales.
             | 
             | macOS draws only at 1x or 2x. 3x is iOS only.
             | 
             | Apples decision to support only integer scaling was what
             | allowed them to adopt Retina displays very quickly.
             | Unfortunately it led to a subotimal solution in the long
             | term.
        
           | the_lucifer wrote:
           | > It gets criticized from time to tome, though the newer
           | 14/16" MBPs ship 200% as default again.
           | 
           | The new 2021 MacBook Pros were such a great design and it's
           | clear how every small thing points to them being the greatest
           | since 2015 Pros.
        
             | nicoburns wrote:
             | I upgraded from 2015 13" Macbook Pro to 2021 14" Macbook
             | Pro, and it's remarkable how similar the devices are. The
             | physical dimensions are almost identical. Neither have a
             | touch bar. And they both have a similar selection of ports
             | (HDMI, SD card, aux, mag safe), and in very similar
             | locations. The difference is basically improvements in
             | quality of pretty much everything: better screen resolution
             | and size, better webcam, better keyboard, better speakers,
             | USB-C instead of thunderbolt ports and USB-A, better
             | battery life, and of course a much much faster processor
             | and thermals.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | petilon wrote:
         | > _I really don 't understand why they don't either (a) adopt
         | Windows' approach of allowing rendering directly to any
         | arbitrary scale_
         | 
         | Windows is badly broken in this regard. I bought and returned a
         | Microsoft Surface laptop because its rendering is broken: If
         | you display a web page containing horizontal lines (like grid
         | lines of an HTML table) then the lines will appear to have
         | varying thickness even though they are all set to 1px. That's
         | crap; I couldn't believe Microsoft is shipping this. If Windows
         | scaling is set to anything other than 100% or 200% you will
         | have this issue. Both 150% and 300% have this issue. I have
         | never seen such issues on a Mac.
        
         | hughrr wrote:
         | I'm running at neither 100% or 200% on my 4k 27"...
        
           | kccqzy wrote:
           | UI elements are still rendered at 2x and then downscaled.
           | It's just that you (or most people) can't tell the
           | difference. Me neither.
        
             | hughrr wrote:
             | Exactly.
        
             | adrianmsmith wrote:
             | However this decision does mean Apple can't produce
             | monitors with more than about 200 PPI without the text
             | being too small (at 200%). i.e. they can't go beyond 5K at
             | 27".
             | 
             | Which is a shame, you can use 8K monitors with Windows at
             | e.g. 300% just fine.
        
               | kccqzy wrote:
               | They can easily add support for rendering at 3x. iOS has
               | supported that since iPhone 6 Plus. The only thing that's
               | missing from macOS is a switch to turn it on, and produce
               | all the UI assets at 3x.
        
             | [deleted]
        
         | BitwiseFool wrote:
         | > (a) adopt Windows' approach of allowing any arbitrary scale
         | 
         | Apple is all about controlling and curating the user
         | experience. They would much rather force you into some lane
         | than allow you to go wild configuration wise.
        
           | naikrovek wrote:
           | is allowing a 150% option considered "going wild"?
        
             | BitwiseFool wrote:
             | Personally, no, but the GP did say "allowing any arbitrary
             | scale" and that's what I was referring to. Why Apple does
             | not allow 150% is beyond me because it is quite reasonable.
             | But I can understand why they don't allow users to enter a
             | value like 168%.
        
               | petilon wrote:
               | > _Why Apple does not allow 150% is beyond me because it
               | is quite reasonable._
               | 
               | It is absolutely not reasonable. HTML tables with
               | horizontal grid lines will appear to have varying line
               | thicknesses when in reality they are all set to the same
               | width.
        
         | copperx wrote:
         | I'm confused by your post. macOS definitely supports fractional
         | scaling since 2012.
        
           | mrkstu wrote:
           | It's there but it's noticeably slower/buggier.
        
           | bragh wrote:
           | It depends on how the display is detected. Never got it to
           | work with Dell UltraSharps, but some curved LG display works
           | fine.
        
           | jcelerier wrote:
           | It does so by rendering at 200% then downscaling the
           | resulting texture which is absolutely horrendous for both
           | performance and looks
        
             | bluedino wrote:
             | They come with that as default
        
       | tehnub wrote:
       | I'm disappointed with the ergonomics of it. First, you have to
       | pay extra for height adjustability, and then the height
       | adjustment is via an arm that changes the viewing distance when
       | you adjust the height. Why can't it just be like Dell monitors
       | (and many others) where the screen can be moved up or down on a
       | fixed axis, and it's included in the product?
        
       | gumby wrote:
       | Interesting: the discontinued 27" iMac was only $200 more
       | (1599/1799) despite containing basically an entire Mac mini.
        
       | ThePhysicist wrote:
       | I wish they wouldn't make me scroll through two pages of animated
       | backgrounds just to see the actual monitor. That said if I would
       | spend this much on a monitor I would prefer the Samsung Odyssey
       | Neo, which has a 5K resolution on a curved 49' display with a 240
       | Hz refresh rate, HDR 2.000 and G-Sync/Freesync. I guess the color
       | space coverage is not as good though, and it's not as bright at
       | 420 nits, though that's more than bright enough for me.
        
         | deergomoo wrote:
         | > 5K resolution on a curved 49' display with a 240 Hz refresh
         | rate
         | 
         | That is clearly a gaming monitor. No-one would want to do the
         | sort of workloads this display is aimed at on something like
         | that.
        
         | tedivm wrote:
         | I learned a long time ago to hit "Tech Specs" on the top right
         | instead of sitting through the ridiculous marketing pages
         | (especially since they have awful performance on Firefox for
         | some reason).
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | chimen wrote:
         | Toilet paper monitors. Can't be serious with that. Here's a
         | good one: https://www.dell.com/en-us/work/shop/dell-
         | ultrasharp-40-curv...
        
           | ThePhysicist wrote:
           | I have several Dell monitors (writing this on a 27' 4k
           | S2721QS), they're absolutely awesome for office work.
           | Sometimes I crave for a higher refresh rate though, I have
           | another ultrawide monitor with 144 Hz refresh rate and it
           | really makes a difference, I find.
        
           | infinityio wrote:
           | only 60hz though, which might be a dealbreaker for some
        
           | kitsunesoba wrote:
           | The 300 nits brightness kills this model for me. With my desk
           | sitting next to a window, even with indirect sunlight
           | anything below 400-500 nits starts having usability issues. I
           | could lower the shades but I'd much rather let the sunlight
           | in.
        
           | EugeneOZ wrote:
           | Just 140 PPI? _Can't be serious with that_.
           | 
           | I have no idea how people can work with such low pixels
           | density, really - I've tried and it's just impossible.
        
           | mrtksn wrote:
           | Wow, that looks awesome. I like the Apple displays but I'm
           | into seriously wide aspect ratio stuff lately.
           | 
           | I was checking on some comically wide Samsung monitors
           | however I wasn't impressed with the build quality.
        
       | joao wrote:
       | Fine print: only compatible with macOS Monterey 12.3 or later.
       | 
       | Perhaps only spatial audio and some camera features won't be
       | compatible with older macOS versions. Waiting for the first
       | reviews.
        
       | asteroidbelt wrote:
       | Sadly no built in KVM. I like my BenQ monitor for having KVM
       | (among other reasons).
        
       | jillesvangurp wrote:
       | I'm reading this on a 27" 5K imac from 2014. It's a nice screen.
       | But it's eight years old now. So, what's new?
        
         | alexashka wrote:
         | in 2014, you could buy a 27" 5k iMac for 2000$.
         | 
         | Now you can buy the exact same monitor, for 1600$.
         | 
         | We've made a lot of progress.
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | moooo99 wrote:
           | That really is a shame. Mac screens have been amazing for a
           | long time now, but as soon as the computer inside them is
           | outdated and slow, the whole device including the still
           | awesome display is obsolete. Thats the main reason I'd
           | probably never buy an iMac.
        
             | LanceH wrote:
             | If you've ever tried to get an apple monitor repaired, you
             | find out it has one part inside which costs roughly the
             | same as the monitor.
        
           | dagmx wrote:
           | That's $2300 in todays dollars if it helps the cost
           | comparison
        
             | ballenf wrote:
             | And $2500 in next month's.
        
         | kecupochren wrote:
         | Do you not get ghosting issues?
        
           | alexashka wrote:
           | iMac 2015. Yes, and it is _bad_.
           | 
           | I now set all my monitors to turn on screensaver within 1
           | minute.
        
         | icedchai wrote:
         | Same here. My 27" iMac has been my longest running and best
         | desktop computer. It still feels pretty fast!
        
           | Koshkin wrote:
           | In comparison, my "late 2014" Mac Mini feels slow (after an
           | OS upgrade).
        
         | jdlshore wrote:
         | Speaking as someone who's in the market for a new display, I
         | haven't been able to find a quality 27" 5K screen. LG has one,
         | but it gets poor reviews. Everybody else is selling 4Ks, which
         | is lower effective resolution than what I'm using now (a 23"
         | 1920x1200 Apple Cinema display). So this is definitely
         | appealing to me.
        
           | pedrocr wrote:
           | The effective resolution of 4K is 2x in both directions
           | because to match the size you just set the 27" screen a bit
           | farther away so it fills the same field of view. The jump in
           | resolution from going 4K will be very noticeable and a 27" 4K
           | IPS screen is less than 300EUR. Well worth the upgrade.
        
           | aryamaan wrote:
           | I am in the same bucket. LG Ultrafine is the only option
           | which seems available. But it's an old model and I am
           | surprised the lack of availability from the other
           | manufacturers.
        
           | ithkuil wrote:
           | I have the LG ultra fine 5k and it's a very good monitor. It
           | has a small defect: occasionally there is a small flickering
           | on the central vertical line. It goes away if you put the
           | screen to sleep and wake it again (it takes a few seconds,
           | and I had to do it a handful of times in a year)
        
       | james-redwood wrote:
       | I hate this trend in 'ultra modern' websites with the infinite
       | scroll pulling you through some sort of animation. The website is
       | near unusable as a result.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | saddestcatever wrote:
         | I'm sitting here on a 2015 Macbook Pro and the site barely runs
         | :P
        
         | kahrl wrote:
         | I might be ignorant here, but what trend? Scrolljacking was
         | popular for about 5 minutes back around 2010 during the HTML5
         | craze before people realized how awful a UX it is. The only
         | place I still see it being used regularly is Apple sites. Have
         | you seen this pattern used elsewhere?
        
         | jkelleyrtp wrote:
         | Fun fact - if you have "reduce motion" enabled on macOS the
         | webpage becomes a normal flat scrollable page (what you'd
         | expect).
        
           | ask_b123 wrote:
           | Nice fact! I've enabled it now.
        
         | NackerHughes wrote:
         | Hey, it's marginally more usable than unskippable Flash intros,
         | which is what we used to get.
         | 
         | Although, unlike other similarly effect-heavy apple landing
         | pages I've seen in the recent past, this one doesn't appear to
         | offer a decent alternative version when javascript is disabled,
         | which is a disappointment.
        
       | imglorp wrote:
       | Oh sure, they put the anti-reflective coating on the device that
       | lives inside on a desk, but the portable stuff all has super
       | reflective surfaces making them hell to use outside.
        
       | jrochkind1 wrote:
       | $1599 isn't _quite_ as bad as I expected, actually.
       | 
       | I've still got my old 27" Apple Thunderbolt Display (a puny 2560
       | by 1440 pixels), which i use daily. (The convenience of built-in
       | video/mic/USB hub, with one cable, is _indispensible_ and more
       | important to me than resolution, and it 's been really unclear to
       | me what else could do that with a macbook). But might be ready to
       | upgrade to this guy.
        
         | Gualdrapo wrote:
         | I also have a Thunderbolt Display, which I got last year. It's
         | been great and, as you say, having webcam/mic/speakers/usb hub
         | _and an Ethernet port_ is absolutely fantastic. And the quality
         | of the thing overall is just superb.
         | 
         | Also for me those "add-ons" are more important than pixel
         | density, and I'm saying this as a graphic designer. If there
         | were a version of this with a bigger size (but with less pixel
         | density), and maybe a more 'squared' factor, I'd jump to it
         | without even thinking, but alas for Apple pixel density is
         | first above everything else.
        
         | pkamb wrote:
         | That's the same resolution (screen real estate) as this new
         | one. Just 1x and not 2x Retina.
        
       | Uptrenda wrote:
       | wow, 600 nits -- that's bright. If you have a mac book pro you
       | already have a screen that does 500 nits which easily lets you
       | see the screen in the sun. If you're inside without glare you can
       | get away with just 250 nits. For smart phones -- the nits are
       | typically much higher because people use them in the sun and need
       | good visibility outside.
       | 
       | A 600 nit screen inside would almost be too bright for some
       | people. I know people who already turn down their laptops because
       | 500 is too bright. but i think its good to have the option to
       | turn it down rather than a screen that's too dim.
        
         | NathHorrigan wrote:
         | I'd disagree, I have a 16" 2021 MacBook that has the XDR
         | Display with 1000avg/1600peak brightness and I constantly have
         | it maxed.
         | 
         | It's very annoying have it next to my BenQ 4K monitor that
         | feels so much flatter in comparison. It just makes any other
         | monitor so boring in comparison.
        
       | maherbeg wrote:
       | Bummed they didn't release a 32" or 34". I really enjoy using a
       | 34" ultrawide with 3 columns of apps.
        
       | 015a wrote:
       | For me, its frustrating to not see an option without all the
       | webcam, microphone, octuple speaker array, A13, 100w charging, TB
       | hub, madness. I have to imagine that adds significant cost, and
       | at $1600 we're not in the territory where this stuff can be
       | included just 'cause.
       | 
       | I like it, but I imagine some professionals would like to do what
       | Apple's marketing images all show; buy two, maybe even three. I'd
       | love to have _one_ with all that stuff, but not all of them need
       | the bells and whistles; and there 's value in having all your
       | displays be identical, especially in work that needs color
       | calibration (not to mention, it looks nice).
       | 
       | So, maybe I grab one if the reviews look solid. And hopefully in
       | the future they release a version without all that extra stuff
       | for closer to the $1200-$1300 an LG 5K ultrafine display can be
       | had for.
        
         | yurishimo wrote:
         | Except if you compare it to the LG 5K, it's worth the extra
         | cost in build quality alone. The LG monitors are notorious
         | pieces of junk with flaky connectors that come loose like
         | clockwork.
         | 
         | The new Studio display is expensive, but I think the features
         | somewhat justify the price compared to the "competition".
        
           | 015a wrote:
           | You're speaking very confidently about the build quality of a
           | display which was announced to the public two hours ago.
        
             | shadowfacts wrote:
             | It's not hard to beat the notoriously bad build quality and
             | reliability of the LG UltraFine and Apple has a track
             | record of building solid displays (I have an LED Cinema
             | Display that's going on 13 years old with nary a single
             | issue).
        
               | brailsafe wrote:
               | I think your experience has been a constant of most Apple
               | products for the last 22 years or so. Some people have no
               | issues ever, some people have constant issues all the
               | time. That said, I loved the Cinema displays and they did
               | have a good track record, but if memory serves, the
               | Thunderbolt Display variant was notoriously flaky [0].
               | Since they've put out so few external displays, it does
               | stain their reputation a bit.
               | 
               | [0] https://superpixel.co/apples-thunderbolt-display-
               | worst-apple...
        
               | borland wrote:
               | Everything I've heard about the Pro display XDR's has
               | been that all the things like USB/Thunderbolt
               | connectivity are rock solid. This suggests Apple's
               | display group has their goods together, and the Studio
               | Display is likely to be solid too.
        
           | hultner wrote:
           | I've had 5 ultra fines since they were released in
           | 2016/15ish, both 3x4k 21.5", and now 2x5k 27". Never
           | experienced any issues, build quality is quite high in my
           | opinion and the stand is surprisingly solid, much better then
           | my Dell UltraSharps and LG UltraWide.
           | 
           | Of course not at the level of the Apple Displays but they are
           | really outliers in the industry.
        
           | localhost wrote:
           | My personal take: my two 27" 4K LG monitors run GREAT here. I
           | like the extremely small vertical bezels on both of them (one
           | is a 144Hz and the other is a 60Hz). Connectors are fine. The
           | monitors don't move at all, so build quality issues are
           | imperceptible here. I think I paid something like $600 for
           | each one at different points in time.
        
             | cloverich wrote:
             | Yeah I know its just anecdata but I've been using mine
             | daily for over 4 years now, all day every day, and never
             | had an issue. I love the single cable + built in
             | peripherals and am puzzled at the lack of competition
             | around it. I had really questioned whether I was reaching
             | when I purchased it for ~$1200 but 4+ years later, there's
             | still very little to compare it to. (Tons of great options
             | if you don't want built-in peripherals / single cable of
             | course)
        
         | hultner wrote:
         | So you're asking for the LG UF 5k?
        
           | deergomoo wrote:
           | Which is discontinued in most territories.
        
       | skadamat wrote:
       | Sadly no HDMI or DisplayPort, so can't use it for Xbox. Sadly
       | only 60 Hz Seems like a really gorgeous update to this old thing
       | - https://www.adorama.com/lot27md5klb.html?utm_source=adl-gbas...
       | 
       | I hope they do 4k@120hz in the next version!
        
         | rewtraw wrote:
         | just use an adapter... Thunderbolt / USB C gives you
         | flexibility
        
           | fbkr wrote:
           | Can you actually connect HDMI input to a thunderbolt only
           | display? I have the LG 5K thunderbolt-only display and cannot
           | use it with a desktop PC due to this issue.
        
           | fumar wrote:
           | Would something like this work? Xbox or gaming console to
           | Apple Studio Display. https://www.amazon.com/Anker-
           | DisplayPort-PowerExpand-Aluminu...
        
       | jjcm wrote:
       | Awesome to see them finally putting out _almost_ consumer
       | friendly pricing displays. Few things I 'm disappointed about
       | though:
       | 
       | - 60hz. For this price point I'd expect higher.
       | 
       | - Thunderbolt 3. Interesting that they didn't bump to 4, given
       | the Mac Studio is Thunderbolt 4. This means you wont be able to
       | daisy chain the displays.
       | 
       | - Lack of size options. Would love to see more variety here.
       | After moving to an ultrawide format, I can't see myself moving
       | back to standard format monitors from a productivity standpoint.
       | 
       | Overall though excited for this and keen to see how it'll evolve.
       | It'll be a miss for me this cycle but keen to see their future
       | releases of their monitor line.
        
         | fotta wrote:
         | TB4 has the same bandwidth as TB3 so you wouldn't be able to
         | daisy chain 5k monitors anyway. Also as the other commentator
         | mentioned, TB doesn't have enough bandwidth for 120hz (53Gbps
         | vs 40Gbps)
        
         | aldanor wrote:
         | Yea. Sad about the lack of ultrawide option, too. Once you get
         | used to it, there's no way back.
         | 
         | Two 27'' displays is not an option since you can't center
         | anything, so... three Studio displays side-to-side?
        
           | tshaddox wrote:
           | I've been running an LG non-curved 3440x1440 ultrawide
           | monitor as my main work monitor for several years now. It's a
           | great form factor, but the resolution is really sad. It's
           | essentially a wider version of the Dell 1440p monitor that I
           | had _ten years ago_. My ideal monitor now would be a pixel-
           | doubled version of this ultrawide monitor, but I 'm still
           | tempted to lose the extra width and upgrade to this 5k
           | display.
        
             | yurishimo wrote:
             | Same. I have a 32" 1440p display and am considering
             | grabbing one of these when I get back to the states in a
             | few months. I could live without the speakers, but honestly
             | if they're "good enough" they might kick my powered studio
             | monitors off of my desk. I like my powered speakers but I
             | don't use them anywhere near the volume they thrive at so
             | it might be worth it to re-examine my workflow as a
             | hobbyist.
        
             | tylerfontaine wrote:
             | The Dell U4021QW is probably the best monitor I've ever
             | used. I, too, got sad with 1440 vertical pixels on previous
             | ultrawides, so I was pretty excited when they announced
             | this one. 5120 x 2160 is really a dream. It's limited to
             | 60hz, which bothers some folks, but I haven't noticed. I
             | don't game or anything on it, though.
        
               | tshaddox wrote:
               | I actually forgot that that monitor configuration
               | existed. It looks nice, although I assume you would still
               | be running at the same UI scaling as a 1440p monitor, and
               | the higher pixel density compared to a 34" ultrawide
               | 1440p display (around 25% higher) means you put the
               | monitor closer to your eyes. So unless you're doing non-
               | integer scaling (which I want to avoid if at all
               | possible), you get a lot more real estate than the 1440p
               | display, but not 2x density. Or you could do 2x scaling,
               | but then you've just got the real estate of an ultrawide
               | 1080p display. Personally I have plenty of real estate
               | with 3440x1440, and what I'm really interested in is
               | jumping to 2x scaling.
        
         | oceanplexian wrote:
         | Yeah I don't know what it is with everyone prioritizing pixels
         | over refresh rate.. once you start using 100+hz 60hz starts to
         | feel like a slide show. You can see mouse trails and scrolling
         | is jerky and uncoordinated, it's painful and insanely
         | distracting.
        
           | dnissley wrote:
           | I mainly just look at text all day, so the "slow" transitions
           | between different bits of text just don't matter all that
           | much to me. Resolution helps that text look nice and crisp
           | though, which I really do appreciate.
        
           | bob1029 wrote:
           | To this day, 27" 1440p, 144hz IPS gaming monitors are still
           | my favorite daily driver for any desktop productivity. And
           | when I say favorite, I mean by an extremely large margin.
           | 
           | The amount of real estate you get with 2560x1440 is
           | fantastic, and you can actually game on it at native
           | resolution on older gen graphics. The pixel density of 27" @
           | 1440p is the epitome of goldilocks. Every single pixel is
           | just the right amount of useful.
        
           | EugeneOZ wrote:
           | Although I agree that 100+ Hz matters and the difference is
           | huge, pixels density is very important also, and for some
           | (myself included), it matters more.
        
           | cpuguy83 wrote:
           | Remember 60hz CRTs? That was _unbearable_ for me.
        
             | deergomoo wrote:
             | For a while I went down the rabbit hole of getting high end
             | CRTs for retro games. I'm in a PAL region though, and the
             | first time I booted up a 50Hz game I wondered how the hell
             | I didn't spend my entire childhood with a migraine. 60 I'm
             | fine with but 50 I can literally see flickering.
        
         | owenwil wrote:
         | The technology to do 5K @ 120hz just doesn't exist yet. 5K @
         | 60Hz is already maxing out Thunderbolt 4.
        
           | Dunedan wrote:
           | DisplayPort 1.2 (or newer) and HDMI 2.1 both support 5K at
           | 120Hz when using DSC.
        
             | miohtama wrote:
             | What's DSC?
        
           | tinus_hn wrote:
           | You'd say if they can drive 3 displays at 60hz they should be
           | able to drive one at 120hz
        
             | smileybarry wrote:
             | Maybe, but I don't see anyone going the way of dual-link
             | ports ever again. It was clumsy enough the first time.
        
       | bdcravens wrote:
       | A few years ago I would have been very excited about this, and
       | immediately upgraded the Thunderbolt Display I had at the time.
       | These days I prefer 32" display, and I don't even need 4k (I have
       | 2 32" QHD LG displays at both home and work)
        
       | cube2222 wrote:
       | As a person who works on a Mac but uses a Windows PC for gaming:
       | a pity this only has USB-C inputs, so you won't be able to
       | connect a PC with an RTX 30xx card to it.
       | 
       | Still very cool though.
        
         | kitsunesoba wrote:
         | Several Intel and AMD motherboards have both Thunderbolt ports
         | along with a DisplayPort in port that lets you pipe the output
         | of a discrete GPU (like an RTX 3080) through the Thunderbolt
         | connection. These will probably work just fine with the Studio
         | display. Some PC laptops with Thunderbolt and more capable GPUs
         | probably work with it too.
        
         | jrockway wrote:
         | Amazingly, NVidia cards had this port on previous generation
         | models, but it got removed for some reason. (Though it's
         | actually not clear to me it would work; they did some non-
         | standard stuff to get USB 3.1 instead of USB 2.0 alongside
         | DisplayPort lanes.)
        
         | minimaxir wrote:
         | It most likely wouldn't work with a Windows PC anyways due to
         | the tight macOS integration anyways; my iMac in Boot Camp can't
         | use any of the USB-C ports on a connected LG Ultrafine 5k at
         | all.
        
         | brigade wrote:
         | There are bidirectional DisplayPort <-> USB-C cables, as well
         | as DisplayPort+USB-A -> USB-C cables/adapters that work with
         | the XDR display at 6k, or there are PCIe cards that add a USB-C
         | port with DisplayPort alt-mode support
         | 
         | Only problem is that you'll probably need to extract a BootCamp
         | driver to control brightness/volume, assuming one will exist
         | for this monitor.
         | 
         | (well, if it supports HDR input, you'd use Window's SDR
         | brightness to control it that way instead)
        
         | Goosee wrote:
         | To connect my windows desktop to lg ultrafine - I use a
         | bidirectional display port to thunderbolt 3 cable (amazon
         | basics)
        
           | cube2222 wrote:
           | Wow! Didn't know those cables can go the other direction as
           | well. That's huge!
           | 
           | Thank you! Another example that writing something wrong on
           | the internet is the best way to find the truth :)
           | 
           | That said, it looks like there's just one input port and
           | three output ports. Would need to do some hack there as well,
           | to avoid constant cable changing.
        
       | mulmen wrote:
       | Great news. I use an LG ultrawide but it took three LGs to find
       | one that MacOS could reliably detect with a supported resolution.
       | It was a ridiculously complicated and painful process.
       | 
       | I had a 2014 RMBP with the Thunderbolt monitor and Apple wireless
       | keyboard and mouse. Everything "just worked". I never had any
       | issues. I just spent my time working instead of fighting with my
       | workstation. It was glorious.
       | 
       | Glad to see Apple back to form here. I'm willing to pay the
       | premium for a complete solution.
        
       | benjaminwootton wrote:
       | The website was too much for my top of the range iPhone 12 to
       | handle. Nice work Apple.
        
         | [deleted]
        
       ___________________________________________________________________
       (page generated 2022-03-08 23:01 UTC)