[HN Gopher] $1 Microcontrollers (2017)
___________________________________________________________________
$1 Microcontrollers (2017)
Author : graderjs
Score : 158 points
Date : 2022-03-06 06:09 UTC (16 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (jaycarlson.net)
(TXT) w3m dump (jaycarlson.net)
| hahamrfunnyguy wrote:
| The Texas Instruments MSP430 is another good one to look at. At
| one point, dev kits were available for under $10. It's a good
| choice for low-power applications. Comes with a free IDE.
| sgt wrote:
| I have a few MSP430's, mostly the really lower end ones and I
| have recently been wondering if it's really worth it for a
| hobbyist.
|
| The ESP's have low power modes as well, and can run off a tiny
| battery, which was the primary strength of MSP.
|
| Any thoughts? I like the MSP ecosystem and docs, but ESP also
| shines there.
| lpmay wrote:
| It's up to hobbyists what's worth it to them, but the power
| consumption of the ESP 8266/32 is not _really_ comparable to
| the '430. "Deep sleep" mode on the ESP seems to be about
| 20uA, an MSP430FR5969 can go to a 20nA LPM 4.5 mode (factor
| of 1000 lower). Harder to compare in a HN comment, but active
| mode power consumption is also in the MSP's favor for many
| applications particularly when using the built in hardware
| accelerators like LEA.
|
| Of course the MSP430 doesn't have a WiFi modem or a giant
| hobbyist community like the ESP, so I'm really not trying to
| make an argument for which is "better" just trying to add
| some contrast to the low power features you asked about.
| sgt wrote:
| Good point... my perception on power usage was absolutely
| wrong.
|
| MSP's are aging a bit though. At least the ones in my
| drawer. Is the hw platform being actively developed or has
| it plateau'd?
| lpmay wrote:
| I think the platform is very much still alive and
| kicking. It is still the only uP platform I am aware of
| which is available with embedded FRAM which is low power,
| non volatile, extremely more write durable than flash and
| rad hard. Again, maybe not top selling features for a
| hobbyist project but absolutely compelling for certain
| industrial use cases.
| sgt wrote:
| Thanks - you got me excited about MSP430 again. I am
| wondering if I should build an AC motor controller for
| fun, since I happen to have an AC motor on my bench.
| auxym wrote:
| TBH the rpi pico (rp2040 dev board) is hard to beat for the
| price of 5$. Dual core ARM cortex-m0+ at 100 something MHz and
| loads of ram and flash.
| makapuf wrote:
| Dont forget programmable io ports with their independent tiny
| cores.
| GeorgeTirebiter wrote:
| I have been struggling to get TI's (free) Code Composer Studio
| to recognize my MSP430FR2311 boards now on-and-off for months.
| They 'upgrade' the code, and then I can't program my devices.
| In fact, so far, I've spent more time trying to get the dev
| environment to work than developing my code. Not Fun.
|
| Very cool when it does work, tho. I'd prefer to pay a little
| more for parts and get some English-based support.
|
| I'll work through the Code Disposer Studio issues...again...
| dvh wrote:
| What's the cheapest way to get:
|
| 44kHz ADC > FFT > some light computation (e.g. 1000
| multiplications) > IFFT > DAC
| sitkack wrote:
| Cheapest on what axis?
|
| Qty 1, including your time, a raspberry pi zero.
|
| Qty 1000, not including your time, an FPGA with embedded
| multipliers.
| jahirul247 wrote:
| tome wrote:
| Wow, this might be the first spam I have ever seen on HN!
| lsllc wrote:
| The mods here are really, really good. I do occasionally see
| spam & junk comments on HN, mostly early in the (US) morning,
| but they clean it up quickly. It's one of the reasons I like
| HN so much, it's very well curated.
| [deleted]
| mopsi wrote:
| EEVblog had a video series about a 3 cent microcontroller:
| https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=3+cent+microcon...
| rajnathani wrote:
| (2017)
| ChuckMcM wrote:
| Read this when it came out, it helped me to understand that with
| modern silicon geometries or process nodes, computers are "free".
| The largest part of the cost here is the packaging and testing of
| individual parts.
| amelius wrote:
| What I want more than $1 microcontrollers is a series of
| controllers that goes from low price/low performance to higher
| price/higher performance, but all programmable with the same
| open-source software stack.
|
| I don't want to read datasheets again whenever I need 100MHz more
| clock speed, or 1mW less power consumption. Because reading
| datasheets, at some point, feels like filling out tax forms.
| not_the_fda wrote:
| The STM32 line is as close as you will get with this. Its HAL
| (Hardware Abstraction Layer) is MIT licensed and is very
| similar across products. Products in the same family are nearly
| pin compatible.
| mmoskal wrote:
| They are remarkably similar even at the register level - when
| you program with the LL (low level) library that essentially
| exposes hardware registers. I find LL easier to understand
| and work with than HAL.
|
| BTW the license is mostly BSD not MIT with some additional
| libraries more restrictive.
| timpattinson wrote:
| Yeah, STM32 spans the range between the $1 and the STM32F7 at
| 200Mhz
| monocasa wrote:
| Up to the H7 now that goes to 480mhz.
| duskwuff wrote:
| Some H7 parts are rated up to 550 MHz, and they'll
| overclock well beyond that.
| GeorgeTirebiter wrote:
| ...which has 2.14 DMIPS/MHz = 1.027 BIPS (more than 1
| instruction per nanosecond). Fast enough?
|
| (BTW, when I see "mhz" I assume this means "milli-Hertz".
| Similar when people say they have a 42b structure -- I
| see this as a 42-bit structure. If I wanted to
| communicate "42 byte structure" I'd abbreviate as "42B
| structure". Capitals used judiciously transmit meaning
| compactly.)
| monocasa wrote:
| FWIW, I've seen capitalization issues in datasheets. When
| they're this ubiquitous, it's better to use it as an
| opportunity to apply number sense as a sort of FEC for
| verbal understanding. A 480 millihertz ARM doesn't really
| make sense (if you were running at those rates, you're in
| such a niche that it has ISA considerations where ARM
| isn't a great option anymore). Similarly a 42 bit
| structure on an ostensibly 8 bit machine doesn't make
| sense. Yes it'd probably be a better world if everyone
| was consistent, but blindly assuming that they are
| doesn't really help anyone.
| bloopernova wrote:
| I've wanted something similar when shopping at Adafruit.
| https://www.pcpartpicker.com has some pretty good search tools
| that I wish more vendors would copy.
| auxym wrote:
| Digikey's parametric search is hard to beat.
| not_the_fda wrote:
| I don't think any of these are in stock. Whole industry kept
| moving to higher cost parts as parts vanished.
| [deleted]
| drewzero1 wrote:
| I just came across this site on Friday when looking for a
| possible replacement for some Digispark (ATTiny85 board) clones
| at work to connect to some 5v relay modules. I'm not too invested
| in the Arduino ecosystem at this point and am still looking into
| other options, haven't finished reading through the whole list
| yet.
| cf141q5325 wrote:
| I just used some attiny85 as a software based USB interface
| with v-usb for interfacing with an atmega328p. I especially
| love the DIP size, its amazing that i could solder the entire
| thing learning about capacitors and pull up resistors in the
| process. The use of multiple processors also allowed for some
| security by design, having functionalities capsuled with
| strictly defined directions of communication.
|
| I think the ecosystem is really quite impressive with a really
| low entry hurdle from a teaching perspective. It was possible
| to get the power consumption of the atmega328p low enough for
| battery operation even with just Arduino, giving an easy
| introduction into prescalers and flags. From there you can step
| deeper into the functionality of avrdude (shoutout to USBASP)
| and standard AVR makefile projects with for example the
| micronucleus bootloader.
| amelius wrote:
| The Chinese company Espressif Systems is doing really well in
| this area, with its ESP32 series.
| 4gotunameagain wrote:
| ESPs are great value for money, but they are all kinda
| hodgepodge and the datasheets / documentation / frameworks are
| not the best.
|
| You get what you pay for I guess :)
| baybal2 wrote:
| rmbyrro wrote:
| It's amazing that humanity can produce this sort of hardware
| under $1. This has implications that are more profound than
| previous industrial revolutions.
|
| In centuries from now, our time will be studied as a remarkably
| revolutionary one.
| pjmlp wrote:
| Given our love for destruction, and ongoing events, it will be
| talked about the same way as we talk about Babylon, Egypt,
| Sumerian, ancient Roman and Greece, Aztecs and Mayas.
| 4ggr0 wrote:
| I would argue that this kind of price is only doable because
| people and resources are being exploited for it. Not
| specifically only for these microcontrollers, but most our
| consumer products in general.
|
| In a worst case scenario, the resources for this $1
| microcontroller were mined by an african child, barely earning
| anything. These resources are then shipped to China(probably),
| where people along the way don't earn much either. Except the
| white collar workers managing it all, of course.
|
| These controllers are then built in a factory, either by
| robots, or low-earning workers. Then shipped to a warehouse.
|
| For me, the fact that such things can be bought so cheaply is
| not really an achievement if we look at how broken the supply
| chains are if we consider the humans who are affected by them.
| And also the environment which gets destroyed quite a bit.
|
| I am of course talking from a moralist and empathical
| perspective. What I am trying to say is, that this is only an
| achievement because we accept or ignore the drastic
| consequences.
| amelius wrote:
| The first step in solving these problems is getting the
| accounting in place, so we know exactly who is paying what.
| It is beyond me why we are not even doing that.
|
| Anyway, we could solve these problems if we doubled the
| price. And then it would still be an amazing achievement.
| WaxedChewbacca wrote:
| graderjs wrote:
| I'm sure there's truth to that. But I also think a large
| proportion of the price (and in general the plummeting price,
| and apogee-ing performance of many high tech components, such
| as batteries) is due not to exploitation, but to increases in
| efficiency. The bequeathed legacy of the thousand accreted
| technologies and improvements that have layered to produce
| contemporary supply chains.
|
| Of course... _everything_ we do today is based on
| exploitation: 1000s of years of exploitation of humans,
| frequently the worker and poorer classes ' labor, 100s of
| years, and billions dead in war...all our achievements today
| literally stand atop this ginormous pile of blood and
| death... _but_ , _that_ ever-present historical reality
| aside...I think a large proportion of the skyrocketing perf
| and ocean-depth-plumbing prices of components is due to the
| compounding and intersecting effects of all our technological
| efficiencies.
| asddubs wrote:
| Also environmental damage that will cost to repair, offloaded
| onto the government or even future generations
| AussieWog93 wrote:
| >I am of course talking from a moralist and empathical
| perspective.
|
| Speaking from a business and engineering perspective, I'd be
| surprised if (even in an ideal world with no environmental
| externalities or exploited third-world labourers) the cost of
| the raw resources, shipping and e-waste processing were a
| significant part of that $1.
|
| We're literally talking about something 1/16 the size of a
| postage stamp that gets stamped into a similarly tiny plastic
| shell.
|
| From my admittedly "peak mount stupid"[1] position as an
| engineer that uses these things, I'd suspect that the biggest
| contributors to that $1 figure come from the expert labour
| required to both R&D the chips as well as run the machines
| that manufacture them.
|
| [1] http://theengineeringmanager.com/wp-
| content/uploads/2017/12/...
| dtgriscom wrote:
| I share your concerns, but I doubt the materials are a major
| component of the cost of goods for these.
| baybal2 wrote:
| In fact, even $1 microcontrollers are considered very expensive
| by industry standards.
|
| Cheapest micros hovered around 10 cents mark before the
| semiconductor crisis.
|
| Some Padauk micros go for single cents.
| agumonkey wrote:
| 10cents dual core 32 bits arch ?
| throwaway81523 wrote:
| The 10 cent mcus that I know of are 8 bitters, which is
| fine for plenty of purposes.
| supercucklchaim wrote:
| I find it amazing as well, now we can sleep at night knowing
| progress will potently progress.
| oxplot wrote:
| Be careful spending time writing software/firmware for chips that
| may disappear tomorrow. Cost of the chip itself isn't everything,
| in fact it's one of the least important things if you're looking
| at long term cost. This is especially relevant in the current
| chip shortage climate which has made this point quite salient.
|
| Whether it's a hobby project or a high volume production project,
| you don't want hundreds of hours of your time spent developing
| for it to go down the drain. In case of a hobby project, it
| probably means the one or two units you made are all that you're
| ever going to make. In case of a product you built in high
| volumes, it means a large gap in sales and lost revenue while you
| re-do the firmware for a new chip.
| R0b0t1 wrote:
| This is a real concern. A lot of these offerings are not useful
| now because they are not ARM (or, soon, RISC-V). Even with
| instruction set match, moving between vendors is a huge issue.
| fouc wrote:
| Maybe this is a dumb question, but are any of these cheap
| microcontrollers able to run Win 98? Or am I misunderstanding
| what microcontrollers can do?
| R0b0t1 wrote:
| Generally a microcontroller has no MMU. A microprocessor may
| mean the same thing. The industry term for something with an
| MMU is an application processor (Cortex-A). There are other
| terms that can be used, but it will need to be specified.
|
| There is some fuzzy area between MMU-less, small processors,
| and processors with no MMU but large enough to run Linux in a
| MMU-less way.
| fouc wrote:
| Interesting! Any idea how hard is it to include an MMU? Or
| better yet, what's the cheapest application processor?
| R0b0t1 wrote:
| It's not very hard at all. The issue is exclusively
| licensing fees.
|
| Cheapest depends. There are Allwinner parts that are $2?
| But with the move to RISC-V, we will see costs decrease
| further, probably so that a Linux-capable part is just as
| expensive or cheaper than an MCU.
|
| Whenever possible I reach for a part that can run Linux,
| because most of any embedded task nowadays is connectivity.
| A lot of parts include a microcontroller on the same die
| for realtime tasks.
| zozbot234 wrote:
| There are some recent x86 SoC's which basically implement i586
| and have been made to run both MS-DOG and Windows 9x. Commonly
| used by retro- and vintage computing hobbyists. None that would
| cost $1, though.
| hungryforcodes wrote:
| https://hackaday.com/2021/07/28/emulating-the-ibm-pc-on-an-e...
| ivoras wrote:
| Things called "microcontrollers" usually have these properties:
|
| * They are actually CPUs, but with very weak feature sets
| related to desktop & scientific computing
|
| * They may or may not have hardware to do any kind of advanced
| computation, starting with plain old multiplication and
| division of integers (addition and subtraction of integers is
| enough for what they do). Yes you read this correctly. The vast
| majority of 8-bit microcontrollers cannot even do division or
| even multiplication in hardware.
|
| * They run with clocks from kilohertz to low megahertz
|
| * They might be 8-bit, 16-bit or 32-bit, with rarity going up
| as the bitness goes up. There's a ton of 8-bit microntrollers,
| and 32-bit are much rarer. 64-bit ones are very very rare,
| since if you need that processing width, you might as well go
| for a single-board-computer like a Raspberry Pi.
|
| * They are used to DIRECTLY drive other hardware, not in an
| abstract way. They literally regulate voltages on their pins to
| make stuff happen with connected hardware.
|
| * They might have RAM space ranging from a couple of BYTES
| (yes, BYTES, see e.g. this one having 32 bytes of RAM:
| https://www.microchip.com/en-us/product/ATTINY9#) to a couple
| of hundreds of kilobytes. It's very rare to have a
| microcontroller with a megabyte or more of RAM, because, as
| before, in that case you might as well just use a full-featured
| desktop-ish CPU.
|
| * They are usually lacking a special bit of hardware called a
| MMU (Memory Management Unit) which is used by "real" operating
| systems like Linux and Windows to manage process isolation and
| many other useful things related to memory. If you need a MMU,
| again, just use a SBC.
|
| So where do we use microcontrollers? Well, what do you think
| happens in your garage or car keyfob when you click on the
| buttons? What tells your microwave when to finish and with
| which power level to nuke your food? What drives your electric
| toothbrush? Your car's gas valves? Microcontrollers, that's
| what.
|
| They are currently (or have been a few years ago) so cheap we
| can readily add a microcontroller to every toilet paper leaf,
| and it would only bring the price of a roll up by a dollar or
| so. What's stopping us to do just that is the sorry state of
| current batteries and energy harvesting in general - those
| technologies simply are not as developed (yet).
|
| So, no, you wouldn't describe a chip which can run Windows 98
| as a "microcontroller".
| detaro wrote:
| None have a PC-architecture (x86+other HW standards), so no,
| they aren't. It would be possible to make a microcontroller
| that can, but nobody does. Intel did make a few experiments
| with x86 microcontrollers, but even those were afaik not PC-
| like enough, because you generally don't want a lot of those
| things in a microcontroller.
| vegadw wrote:
| The author, Jay Carlson, is a really rad guy. I've got a few
| stereoscopic camera boards of his floating around that I happened
| to run into and a few emails later I had them up and running!
| throwaway81523 wrote:
| This is a good article but it's a few years old, and out of date
| now. I can't see its date with my current adblock settings. It
| would be great if someone could find it and put it in the title.
|
| There are stupendously powerful $1 microcontrollers now,
| including the RP2040 (dual core cortex m0+ with 264KB ram on the
| chip), ESP32-S2 (Espressif core with 400k of ram and wifi), and
| ESP32-C3 with wifi and RISC-V core and again something like 400k
| of ram.
|
| Jay Carlson also has a series about microcontrollers as cheap as
| THREE CENTS, i.e. the famous Padauk 3 cent MCU:
|
| https://jaycarlson.net/2019/09/06/whats-up-with-these-3-cent...
| [deleted]
| genezeta wrote:
| > It would be great if someone could find it and put it in the
| title.
|
| There's no publication date -nor anything marking it as updated
| at any time afterwards- on the article itself, but first
| comments are from _November 2017_ and passing references in the
| article point to "end of 2017" too.
| coupdejarnac wrote:
| Those are the three micros I use for projects/products, too. A
| while back I bought a few hundred of the Padauk chips with the
| intent of doing a small manufacturing run of a side project,
| but I haven't seen them in stock at the normal places for a
| while. It looks like the lead time for cheap micros in general
| is about a year.
| pb82 wrote:
| The article about the Padauk is interesting. Especially the
| description of the FPPA feature. Multiple CPU contexts? This
| sounds suspiciously like SMT to me which would be a total
| novelty for a micro controller (afaik).
| sokoloff wrote:
| ESP32 was released August 2016. I'm not even sure it was the
| first.
| throwaway81523 wrote:
| The ESP32 has two separate cores, not SMT. But look at the
| Parallax Propeller which goes back quite a long way. Also
| the Padauk is not exactly SMT afaict. It's more like time
| slicing. The idea of SMT in eg. an x86 is that one thread
| can run while another is blocked waiting for memory.
| [deleted]
| addaon wrote:
| Sounds like a barrel processor [1], used to hide latency
| of individual instructions to allow code to be written
| without having to think as much about instruction
| scheduling / dependencies.
|
| [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barrel_processor
| sitkack wrote:
| The Xmos chips give the programmer virtual time sliced
| contexts over one or more hardware core(s). Say you have
| a 400 Mhz base clock and 4 threads, each one would see
| the wall clock time advance at 100 Mhz. This is useful
| for having concurrent realtime operations on each
| hardware thread w/o having to resort to trickery.
|
| These chips are ideal for DSP, phased arrays and beam
| forming. Most of their devkits are centered around voice
| applications.
|
| https://www.xmos.ai/documentation/XM-014363-PC-5/html/arc
| h-h...
|
| https://www.xmos.ai/download/xCORE-Array-Microphone-
| Product-...
| [deleted]
| AussieWog93 wrote:
| >RP2040
|
| Wow, that's an incredibly capable chip for the price!
| jhallenworld wrote:
| It has an interesting trade-off: no internal flash. But I've
| found that I add a SPI-flash chip to the MCU in many designs,
| so it's a reasonable choice.
|
| NXP has rt1020 (Cortex-M7, no flash), or rt1024, which is
| same but 4 MB flash in the package- it's connected to the
| SPI-flash controller of the rt1020 core, so I think it's a
| multi-die package.
| throwaway81523 wrote:
| Look at the even more capable and comparably priced ESP32-S2
| and ESP32-C3.
| amelius wrote:
| How fast is the serial interface over USB? (What you need if
| you want to connect it to a normal PC)
| opencl wrote:
| The RP2040 actually has built in 12Mbps USB 1.1, no serial
| bridge required. But if you do want to use a serial to USB
| bridge the max baud rate is 921600.
| nanis wrote:
| <script type='application/ld+json' class='yoast-schema-graph
| ... "datePublished":"2017-07-17T01:31:05-05:00",
| "dateModified":"2017-11-18T18:07:56-06:00"}]}
| [deleted]
| waschl wrote:
| Semi-related: Since few months I am digging into tinkering and
| electronics. It's really great to learn about modern era
| solutions which enable cool projects with low entry barrier.
|
| However, I happen to learn about new solutions (new sensors,
| actors, boards, ICs) more randomly than systematically. I tried
| to google for databases, blogs or news outlets, but couldn't find
| anything suited for my consumerish needs. Going through hundreds
| of pages for similar products on online shops also didn't yield
| any good output. Do you guys know any such source? How do you
| keep yourself updated on interesting new products on the market?
| iudqnolq wrote:
| (total noob) I like looking at the components adadruit builds
| in-house. For most of them they have open-sourced the
| schematics, and you can then look up the building blocks on
| sites like DigiKey.
| HeyLaughingBoy wrote:
| Usually if you have accounts at the major distributors(Arrow,
| Digi-Key, Newark, etc.), you'll get occasional updates passed
| on from some of the manufacturers whose parts they sell. But
| those are typically not the hobbyist/consumer items you may be
| looking for.
|
| Perhaps sign up for a SparkFun account? I get a lot of OSHW and
| new module information from them.
| deepsquirrelnet wrote:
| I've used a lot of micros as a hobbyist, and many on this list.
| For my time and money, I like the PSOC, even though the author
| pretty much dismisses them.
|
| PSOC always seems to be what I need. I've used it to read CCDs
| (timing is very strict, and works much better on the SOC than in
| software). I've made capacitive soil moisture sensors using the
| capsense. The psoc5 has good options for USB devices.
|
| But I don't make things to mass produce, so $1 has no appeal to
| me. $10 dev board is fine for me, if it does what I need it to
| do. There's a lot to love about the PSOC, but if you ignore all
| of the things they do that these other microcontrollers don't do,
| it might not look great by comparison. Also they have a
| development environment that is free and easy enough to learn
| that it doesn't require living in datasheets.
| voakbasda wrote:
| I stopped tinkering with electronics despite being a full-time
| embedded software engineer. I have designed small boards, but I
| only know enough EE to get myself in trouble. I prefer working
| with EEs that know their stuff, where our skills can compliment
| each others'.
|
| I no longer work on "hobby" projects; such things become an
| albatross around my neck. If you deploy a hobby project in your
| life, you must maintain it. Forever. For that time cost, I want
| to work on a product that could go into production and pay for
| its own maintenance.
|
| Unfortunately, I cannot stand being around people anymore. I had
| my entire life savings stolen by an ex, with the government's
| help. When I tried to open back up and make new friends after
| that shit show was over, I was drugged and raped by the first guy
| that I invited into my house in over two years; he was never even
| arrested for what he did. And after over 25 years, I stopped
| playing music, because those "friends" all actively abandoned me
| when I decided to start carrying a sidearm daily. Collectively,
| these events destroyed my belief in the just rule of law and the
| goodness of humanity.
|
| Overall, the above factors make me read articles like this with a
| mixture of excitement and possibility combined with depression
| and hopelessness. I do not have the resources for a side project,
| financially or emotionally. I cannot design and launch a side
| project, even though I am fully capable and that is what I most
| want to do.
| monkmartinez wrote:
| Wow... Please, please talk to your PCP about these events and
| feelings. If you want help sorting through this, may I suggest;
| https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/therapists/cognitive-beha...
| oxplot wrote:
| > If you deploy a hobby project in your life, you must maintain
| it. Forever.
|
| Perhaps your definition of hobby is different to mine, but
| hobby projects are exactly the kind you can abandon in a
| heartbeat. No long term customers, no guarantees, no
| obligations. In fact, we hear about countless HW and SW
| projects being abandoned left and right, right here on HN on
| regular basis.
|
| > For that time cost, I want to work on a product that could go
| into production and pay for its own maintenance.
|
| Hobby and high volume production aren't necessarily mutually
| exclusive.
|
| I wanted to build a custom board to use USB-C power in my
| projects. Except the cost of a dozen boards assembled was quite
| high. So I made a thousand or so to subsidize the cost of
| development and production for myself. The chip I used went out
| stock (global chip shortage related) but until it did, my
| "hobby" project paid for itself and actually made me a small
| profit as well.
| gmassman wrote:
| I'm sorry to hear about your loss of faith in humanity.
| Especially hearing how you don't play music with others
| anymore. I'm a musician and not being able to make music with
| my friends would be a huge loss.
|
| I hope you find peace and healing. People often suck, but they
| can also be beautiful if given the chance. And you deserve that
| chance.
| randrews wrote:
| You don't mention where you live, but that last one suggests to
| me that you might consider moving to a different part of the
| country: I know several people, including myself, who carry
| sidearms. Where I live, everyone can do it, some people do do
| it, but no one gets upset by it or cares that much.
| 0_____0 wrote:
| Sounds like you've had a series of incredibly traumatic
| experiences. I'm sorry to hear that, and I hope that you're
| able to find your way into friendships and relationships that
| allow you to trust again.
| yjftsjthsd-h wrote:
| > I no longer work on "hobby" projects; such things become an
| albatross around my neck. If you deploy a hobby project in your
| life, you must maintain it. Forever.
|
| Alternatively: If you do something yourself, you get the option
| to be able to maintain it forever. If you buy something, the
| vendor will probably stop caring the moment the sale completes;
| any maintenance you want to do yourself becomes a reverse
| engineering effort as your work into a system that you didn't
| design.
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