[HN Gopher] When families un-adopt a child (2018)
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When families un-adopt a child (2018)
Author : swiper_lux
Score : 35 points
Date : 2022-03-05 09:44 UTC (1 days ago)
(HTM) web link (www.theatlantic.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.theatlantic.com)
| 999900000999 wrote:
| Doesn't surprise me at all.
|
| My dad's wife hated me, so I got kicked out at 15. Didn't stop my
| Dad from showing up at school and my job to threaten me.
|
| The joys of adulthood, I deal with my horrible family when I want
| to. If you gave a bad family, it's imperative you estrange
| yourself.
|
| In my 20s I made the mistake of trusting these disgusting people.
| Of course they lied to my face, stabbed me in the back, and asked
| me to co-sign a home loan afterwards. So my credit stays locked.
|
| Trust is a luxury I can't afford.
|
| Also, many step parents end up treating those kids like shit. If
| your not going to treat your step kids fairly, since you don't
| want to do it, don't date a single parent.
|
| You have a bit of a catch-22, anyone mature enough to become a
| step parent will understand how much of responsibility it is.
| Thus, they'll be reluctant to do it.
|
| Someone who lacks that maturity, will be much more eager to
| become a step parent as a condition of a new relationship.
|
| I know I can't guarantee I'll be a good step parent. It's just an
| insanely hard thing to do, which takes a person stronger than
| myself.
|
| So I don't date people with kids. I'd sooner die alone than put
| someone else though what I went though.
| haolez wrote:
| Consider going to therapy. Sometimes, the scars are not as deep
| as you initially thought.
|
| Your story seems similar to my wife's, especially the part
| about being tricked into debt. We've managed to clear things up
| after many years of she and her brothers struggling. Good luck!
| 999900000999 wrote:
| Glad therapy worked for your wife.
|
| My Dad simply used it as another venue to threaten me.
|
| I'm always going to be a bit messed up. It's not really
| something I want to fix, if I could.
| Borrible wrote:
| Every offer finds a demand.
|
| https://www.reuters.com/investigates/adoption/#article/part1
| fisherjeff wrote:
| "...the Internet is a reflection of society, and people are
| using it for all kinds of communications and to tackle all
| sorts of problems, including very complicated issues such as
| this one."
|
| I don't even know where to begin here.
| song wrote:
| Upvoting because this article from reuters is chilling and
| worth reading as a complement.
| kingcharles wrote:
| Wow. It is alarmingly easy to offload your child. People are
| adopting children because they look cute without understanding
| why the child was available for adoption in the first place.
| Usually it is because they have such deep mental health
| problems that they need a very time-consuming and expensive
| amount of care to bring their quality of life up to something
| reasonable.
|
| It's very sad for these children, and it's not even one that is
| easy for a government to solve. It's not like health insurance
| where the government can throw more money at the problem -
| these children need very dedicated, caring parents who are
| willing to adopt, which is a rare thing to find.
| curioussavage wrote:
| It is terrible. My parents were foster parents to two girls
| at different times. One was from a foreign country and had
| been previously adopted. A history of abuse and fetal alcohol
| syndrome meant lots of behavioral issues. We ended up all
| getting locks on our bedroom doors. It was extremely
| stressful and gives me some sympathy for the family that
| originally adopted her. Goes without saying that the kids get
| worst part of the deal. In those two cases they both ended up
| in group homes. The article mentions the foreign agency being
| honest but in this case the adoptive parents were lied to
| about the child's condition
| MomoXenosaga wrote:
| Foreign adoption agencies are usually a nice income for
| poor countries. Turns out the "orphan" has parents who are
| still very much alive.
|
| Parents want cute babies and toddlers to adopt not 10 year
| old local kids from abusive homes.
| turpialito wrote:
| Unwanted pets, unwanted children. In the words of Prof.
| Farnsworth: "I don't want to live on this planet anymore".
| MomoXenosaga wrote:
| In my country you break it you own it. You can't just return to
| sender your adopted kid like a goddamn Zalando package.
| rootusrootus wrote:
| If the opening story about the 10 year old being put up for
| adoption 9+ years after being adopted as an infant is true, then
| I'm speechless. What an incredibly destructive, hateful thing to
| do. On the one hand, I don't think you should be able to do such
| things to a child. On the other hand, this is such a clear signal
| of how inappropriate you are as a parent that I guess the answer
| is to take the child as quickly as possible and seek to minimize
| the ongoing damage that is almost certainly already occuring.
| diob wrote:
| It's terrible, but on the other hand I wish my parents / step
| parents had been courageous enough to do it rather than
| cowardly trying to make my life hell instead.
| toomuchtodo wrote:
| The more resources available for parents who shouldn't become
| parents to stay childfree, the better.
|
| Everyone decries the falling fertility rate. Let's talk about
| how many kids who are in foster care every year (~400k in the
| US), who are in toxic homes, or who are homeless. We have a
| long way to go.
|
| (I donate to non profits who subsidize voluntary permanent
| birth control and who advocate for the childfree)
| rayiner wrote:
| Permit wrote:
| What an unusually low-value comment from an otherwise
| high-value commenter. Do you take issue with the label
| "child free" or with the fact that some couples would
| prefer not to have children? Or maybe with the idea that
| an organization advocates for these people?
| istjohn wrote:
| It's silly for people who've decided they don't want to
| be parents to then style themselves as marginalized and
| build an identity around opposition to their imagined
| persecution. There's nothing wrong with not reproducing,
| but really you have more in common with parents of one
| child than they have in common with parents of six
| children.
|
| I don't have any pets. Do I need a special interest
| group?
| VictorPath wrote:
| > Luckily this is a self-correcting problem
|
| Being as people have been around for at least 500
| centuries, and birthrate are leveling off, if this were
| going to "self-correct", it would have already.
| toomuchtodo wrote:
| Reproducing for the sake of doing so is clearing becoming
| passe [1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6]. High level, the world
| needs less people [7]. Lots of roads to get there, all
| valid as long as they don't cause harm in the process.
| Live your best life, and for many, that means being
| childfree. If you're a decent, responsible parent, more
| power to you, as long as you're willing to shoulder the
| costs of your children. Culture and passing of it down is
| seemingly overrated in the current era (outside of some
| belief systems), and even the Mongol Empire ran out of
| steam (despite Genghis Khan's progeny and reproductive
| efforts). Build strong institutions that will withstand
| the test of time, versus traditional families, marriages,
| and progeny. Arguably, this is an indicator of an
| advanced civilization, versus relying on families and
| tribalism for strength and culture.
|
| [1] https://ourworldindata.org/fertility-rate
|
| [2] https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-
| tank/2021/11/19/growing-sha...
|
| [3] https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-
| releases/2021/childles...
|
| [4] https://ifstudies.org/blog/the-rise-of-childless-
| america
|
| [5] https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2019/03/29
| /childf...
|
| [6] https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/05/upshot/americans-
| are-havi...
|
| [7] https://www.nationalgeographic.org/topics/resource-
| library-h...
| satellite2 wrote:
| The Repugnant Conclusion
| toomuchtodo wrote:
| I had never heard of this, but I have been looking for
| this sort of explanation of this model, thank you for
| mentioning it!
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mere_addition_paradox
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reasons_and_Persons
|
| https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/repugnant-conclusion/
| Tade0 wrote:
| My relatives adopted a child who went through something similar
| at age 4. She's okay now, but it took years to get to that
| point.
| bobthechef wrote:
| civilized wrote:
| Talk about a "no good choices" situation.
| haspoken wrote:
| https://archive.ph/6heWk
| adauctus wrote:
| Adoptive parent here.
|
| I read this before I adopted, and it didn't make any sense to me
| then. Having now adopted, I'm willing to make a value judgement
| and say this absolutely horrific. It induces horror. I'm my kid's
| parent.
| warner25 wrote:
| Horrific, but I'm not surprised this happens. I have four
| biological kids. I know that parenting is hard. That's actually
| an understatement. I've often wondered how much harder it is
| when you don't have the biological connection and evolutionary
| drive to help slog through the hardest parts. To be very
| candid, I have moments where I feel like having kids was a bad
| decision, but I know that I'd still give my life for them. I
| can only speculate about how adoptive parents might feel at the
| hardest times.
|
| Edited to add: I guess biological parents are the ones putting
| kids up for adoption in the first place, obviously. So the
| biological connection and evolutionary drive doesn't do much
| for some people.
| bigcat123 wrote:
| hn_throwaway_99 wrote:
| I went and googled the advertising page of the second chance
| adoption agency discussed in this article, and it's just
| heartbreaking. On one hand, I really can't imagine what these
| "parents" were thinking adopting these children in the first
| place - the reasons for rehoming go from "major lifelong medical
| care required" to "child doesn't get along with his siblings" -
| but, in any case, doesn't seem like many of the issues would have
| been unknown or that unexpected at the time of the first
| adoption. I also have the distinct feeling that few of these
| parents would give these kids up at the ages of 8-10 if they were
| their own biological children.
|
| Of course, on the other hand, I can't help but think that these
| kids should be removed ASAP from a home where a parent would
| consider giving them up after caring for them for 8-9 years.
|
| Just really sad all around, my heart goes out to these kids.
| pvaldes wrote:
| > Doesn't seem like many of the issues would have been unknown
|
| You would be surprised of how dishonest, abusive and
| manipulative can be the adopting programs.
|
| I know the case of a Spanish couple without children that
| adopted a Chinese girl baby. Some time later they discovered in
| a routinely health check (in Spain) that the girl has Down's
| syndrome, a fact that was know obviously but carefully hidden
| by the Chinese authorities.
| in_cahoots wrote:
| Looking at the children up for adoption today, a large portion
| seem to come from families with many other siblings. Who would
| have thought that children with special needs require dedicated
| attention?!
|
| The other thing I was surprised to see is how many of these
| kids 'love Jesus' and want to go to a traditional (i.e.
| straight Christian) family. I would think that any loving
| family is better than being unwanted, regardless of their
| religion and genders.
| ftyers wrote:
| I really didn't get this part:
|
| > But according to the information provided by her parents, "This
| family has drastically changed their lifestyle and have left
| their faith and extended family for a quiet, secluded life." It
| is their hope that "a different family will step forward who can
| provide her with the socialization and continued relationship
| with God that she desires."
|
| So they're saying that they are getting rid of her because she is
| too religious at the age of 10 to fit into their lives?
|
| I kind of feel like something is missing there.
| ratww wrote:
| There is a link on the article that provides a few more
| details.
|
| https://wiaa.org/child/reese-placed/
|
| _> This is a child with no special needs but wants to be in a
| family who goes to church. She loves to sing praise songs and
| read her Bible. She and her parents want her to be in a family
| that does this. She gets along with everyone and has no major
| behavioral problems. Her parents want her to be in a family
| that is involved in church, and church related activities._
| gambiting wrote:
| That's still crazy. A 10 year old's opinion on this should be
| humoured, but not to the extent where they put her up for
| adoption.
| [deleted]
| [deleted]
| xwdv wrote:
| A child starts getting very expensive after age 10. Most
| likely, this child had served its purpose in their lives and
| the parents are done with their parenthood phase. It is time
| for someone else to take over while they travel the world and
| enjoy the finer things in life child free. It is possible they
| were just pressured into being parents by their extended
| family, but they didn't really want to be.
| magneticnorth wrote:
| It's even more heart-breaking than that - this girl is the
| youngest of 4 daughters. Her 3 older sisters are biological
| children and presumably are being kept by the parents.
| dahdum wrote:
| It sounds a bit like the family might have been ostracized from
| their church, friends, and extended family after leaving their
| faith. Those relationships may have been critical to the
| child's wellbeing, covering up poor parent/sibling relations.
| Or losing them caused behavioral issues all around.
|
| Just speculation of course. My gut says if we knew all the
| details we'd have a harder time passing judgement on the
| parents.
| ftyers wrote:
| According to the article:
|
| > In other posts with more pictures, the reader learns that
| Reese is the youngest of four daughters; the other three are
| the biological children of her parents. She gets straight
| A's. She loves her parents and her sisters.
|
| But I agree, I wasn't passing judgement, I just thought that
| the motivation was a bit specious, and to specifically call
| out personal religious preference when talking about a 10
| year old is super weird.
| tragomaskhalos wrote:
| Baffling indeed, but I doubt further context would alter my
| conclusion that these parents are heartless scumbags.
| oneoff786 wrote:
| The bigger red flag there is leaving their extended family for
| a secluded life imo. This has a wide range of possible
| interpretations.
| song wrote:
| This kind of sounds like the parents joined a cult... The
| secluded life, leaving extended family...
|
| Of course, pure speculation, but this way of writing reminds
| me of what I've heard in the past from people in cults.
| addaon wrote:
| Or left a cult...
| Ekaros wrote:
| I wonder if the girl would also need some de-
| programming... Might be situation where parents want to
| get away, but girl is still into it.
| axiomsEnd wrote:
| It sounds a bit like being shunned from some controlling
| church.
| axiolite wrote:
| > "This family has drastically changed their lifestyle and have
| left their faith and extended family for a quiet, secluded
| life."
|
| > So they're saying that they are getting rid of her because
| she is too religious at the age of 10 to fit into their lives?
|
| Actually, it sounded to me as if the family went full-on Ruby
| Ridge, moving into an off-grid cabin in the woods, preparing
| for the rapture.
| Scubabear68 wrote:
| We adopted two older kids (age 3 and 7) when we were in our
| 40s/30s.
|
| It was very difficult and life changing in many ways. We
| sacrificed a lot to bring them into our lives.
|
| But - we knew that going into it. It has caused stress and strain
| and high blood pressure. But I also got to carry my son off the
| field on my shoulders when he ran in the the finally touch down
| to cap off an undefeated season. To hear my daughter sing like
| Beyonce.
|
| We knew going into this it was going to be difficult. But we did
| it intentionally to save two lives from what was a life of
| poverty, instability, and abuse. We purposefully adopted through
| the State because we knew those were the kids in dire straights.
|
| I want to say I can't believe people would "return" adopted kids,
| but we saw a lot during adoption training. Parents in it for the
| money (you get a monthly payment if your kids are classified
| special needs). Parents asking questions about restraining and
| hitting kids. Foster homes filled to the brim with kids because
| there is a constant shortage of homes.
|
| I hope most parents are improving the lives of those they adopt.
| But that 5% number is just devastating to see, but reflects the
| reality of who we are as a culture and a race.
| tpmx wrote:
| I just can't get over the fact that it's somehow legal in the US
| to advertise young children for adoption on the (public) web,
| complete with portrait photos and descriptions of their
| personalities and backgrounds.
| ars wrote:
| This is not unique to the US. For example
| https://www.rainbowkids.com/international-adoption/eastern-e...
|
| Just search for photolisting you'll find it all over the place.
| brabel wrote:
| Russia and Ukraine have a terrible problem with orphans.
|
| Here's an example from Ukraine:
| https://deti.zp.ua/eng/list.php?keyword=sirot_net (if you
| find the US sites shocking, pls don't visit this).
| gene91 wrote:
| What's the alternative? I assume that you're not suggesting
| that one signs up for adoption and gets assigned a random
| child. So the alternative is agents with access to the
| inventory (children) and clients (potential parents). I don't
| understand why that's better than letting clients browsing
| inventory by themselves.
| Ekaros wrote:
| I have no issue with clients browsing inventory. But for
| privacy reasons that inventory should be very well
| controlled. Preferably in person. So no online access.
| dymk wrote:
| Referring to children as "inventory" is implies all sorts of
| negative things. Adoption isn't the same as a transaction
| where you peruse the "inventory" for a new hot tub or
| something.
|
| Those interested in adoption should be _so_ interested, that
| they're willing to go meet in-person with an agency who can
| introduce them to the children.
| ipaddr wrote:
| The biggest problem agencies have is getting parents to
| come down. By advertising with pictures people will
| emotionally bond with a specific child which will prompt
| them to go through the long, expensive agency adoption
| process.
|
| Charities use images of children to sell the charity.
| dymk wrote:
| Yeah, that still strikes me as gross and undignified, and
| I don't buy the premise that you need to show specific
| images of specific children that are available for
| adoption _right now_ to increase the rate at which
| parents come down.
|
| > Charities use images of children to sell the charity.
|
| Note that they're not selling the children.
| brabel wrote:
| > Those interested in adoption should be _so_ interested
|
| That's what everyone would like... except that even if they
| are sloppy (not saying that they are) there's still a lot
| of children that are never going to be adopted. Do you
| believe that's better? Spoiler: it's not, because you're
| making sure most children will have a disfunctional adult
| life (growing up without a family is extremely hard)
| instead of allowing more children to live a normal life,
| but with the increased probability of a few living with bad
| parents (the number of cases where that's worse than no
| family at all is probably very small).
| ipaddr wrote:
| Advertising to the biggest audience means the greater the
| choice between parents for the kid. This isn't a bad strategy.
| If more people got facebook ads for kids they could adopt there
| would be more placement.
|
| The privacy question is based on permission from the parent.
| Many kids model and similiar bios would be available in that
| setting available publically.
| spaetzleesser wrote:
| "If more people got facebook ads for kids they could adopt
| there would be more placement."
|
| I remember talking to a couple who had adopted a child. They
| told me that there would be more placement if the process
| wasn't as difficult and insanely expensive as it is now. A
| lot of people who want to adopt a child are basically forced
| to go to foreign countries because it's too hard at home in
| the US. No need for Facebook ads.
| BadCookie wrote:
| Adopting a healthy infant is difficult and expensive
| because there is more demand for these babies than supply.
| We don't need more adoptive families for heathy infants.
| Adopting an older child is a different situation entirely.
| It sounds like you are describing a family who was pursuing
| a healthy infant exclusively.
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