[HN Gopher] When families un-adopt a child (2018)
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       When families un-adopt a child (2018)
        
       Author : swiper_lux
       Score  : 35 points
       Date   : 2022-03-05 09:44 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.theatlantic.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.theatlantic.com)
        
       | 999900000999 wrote:
       | Doesn't surprise me at all.
       | 
       | My dad's wife hated me, so I got kicked out at 15. Didn't stop my
       | Dad from showing up at school and my job to threaten me.
       | 
       | The joys of adulthood, I deal with my horrible family when I want
       | to. If you gave a bad family, it's imperative you estrange
       | yourself.
       | 
       | In my 20s I made the mistake of trusting these disgusting people.
       | Of course they lied to my face, stabbed me in the back, and asked
       | me to co-sign a home loan afterwards. So my credit stays locked.
       | 
       | Trust is a luxury I can't afford.
       | 
       | Also, many step parents end up treating those kids like shit. If
       | your not going to treat your step kids fairly, since you don't
       | want to do it, don't date a single parent.
       | 
       | You have a bit of a catch-22, anyone mature enough to become a
       | step parent will understand how much of responsibility it is.
       | Thus, they'll be reluctant to do it.
       | 
       | Someone who lacks that maturity, will be much more eager to
       | become a step parent as a condition of a new relationship.
       | 
       | I know I can't guarantee I'll be a good step parent. It's just an
       | insanely hard thing to do, which takes a person stronger than
       | myself.
       | 
       | So I don't date people with kids. I'd sooner die alone than put
       | someone else though what I went though.
        
         | haolez wrote:
         | Consider going to therapy. Sometimes, the scars are not as deep
         | as you initially thought.
         | 
         | Your story seems similar to my wife's, especially the part
         | about being tricked into debt. We've managed to clear things up
         | after many years of she and her brothers struggling. Good luck!
        
           | 999900000999 wrote:
           | Glad therapy worked for your wife.
           | 
           | My Dad simply used it as another venue to threaten me.
           | 
           | I'm always going to be a bit messed up. It's not really
           | something I want to fix, if I could.
        
       | Borrible wrote:
       | Every offer finds a demand.
       | 
       | https://www.reuters.com/investigates/adoption/#article/part1
        
         | fisherjeff wrote:
         | "...the Internet is a reflection of society, and people are
         | using it for all kinds of communications and to tackle all
         | sorts of problems, including very complicated issues such as
         | this one."
         | 
         | I don't even know where to begin here.
        
         | song wrote:
         | Upvoting because this article from reuters is chilling and
         | worth reading as a complement.
        
         | kingcharles wrote:
         | Wow. It is alarmingly easy to offload your child. People are
         | adopting children because they look cute without understanding
         | why the child was available for adoption in the first place.
         | Usually it is because they have such deep mental health
         | problems that they need a very time-consuming and expensive
         | amount of care to bring their quality of life up to something
         | reasonable.
         | 
         | It's very sad for these children, and it's not even one that is
         | easy for a government to solve. It's not like health insurance
         | where the government can throw more money at the problem -
         | these children need very dedicated, caring parents who are
         | willing to adopt, which is a rare thing to find.
        
           | curioussavage wrote:
           | It is terrible. My parents were foster parents to two girls
           | at different times. One was from a foreign country and had
           | been previously adopted. A history of abuse and fetal alcohol
           | syndrome meant lots of behavioral issues. We ended up all
           | getting locks on our bedroom doors. It was extremely
           | stressful and gives me some sympathy for the family that
           | originally adopted her. Goes without saying that the kids get
           | worst part of the deal. In those two cases they both ended up
           | in group homes. The article mentions the foreign agency being
           | honest but in this case the adoptive parents were lied to
           | about the child's condition
        
             | MomoXenosaga wrote:
             | Foreign adoption agencies are usually a nice income for
             | poor countries. Turns out the "orphan" has parents who are
             | still very much alive.
             | 
             | Parents want cute babies and toddlers to adopt not 10 year
             | old local kids from abusive homes.
        
       | turpialito wrote:
       | Unwanted pets, unwanted children. In the words of Prof.
       | Farnsworth: "I don't want to live on this planet anymore".
        
       | MomoXenosaga wrote:
       | In my country you break it you own it. You can't just return to
       | sender your adopted kid like a goddamn Zalando package.
        
       | rootusrootus wrote:
       | If the opening story about the 10 year old being put up for
       | adoption 9+ years after being adopted as an infant is true, then
       | I'm speechless. What an incredibly destructive, hateful thing to
       | do. On the one hand, I don't think you should be able to do such
       | things to a child. On the other hand, this is such a clear signal
       | of how inappropriate you are as a parent that I guess the answer
       | is to take the child as quickly as possible and seek to minimize
       | the ongoing damage that is almost certainly already occuring.
        
         | diob wrote:
         | It's terrible, but on the other hand I wish my parents / step
         | parents had been courageous enough to do it rather than
         | cowardly trying to make my life hell instead.
        
           | toomuchtodo wrote:
           | The more resources available for parents who shouldn't become
           | parents to stay childfree, the better.
           | 
           | Everyone decries the falling fertility rate. Let's talk about
           | how many kids who are in foster care every year (~400k in the
           | US), who are in toxic homes, or who are homeless. We have a
           | long way to go.
           | 
           | (I donate to non profits who subsidize voluntary permanent
           | birth control and who advocate for the childfree)
        
             | rayiner wrote:
        
               | Permit wrote:
               | What an unusually low-value comment from an otherwise
               | high-value commenter. Do you take issue with the label
               | "child free" or with the fact that some couples would
               | prefer not to have children? Or maybe with the idea that
               | an organization advocates for these people?
        
               | istjohn wrote:
               | It's silly for people who've decided they don't want to
               | be parents to then style themselves as marginalized and
               | build an identity around opposition to their imagined
               | persecution. There's nothing wrong with not reproducing,
               | but really you have more in common with parents of one
               | child than they have in common with parents of six
               | children.
               | 
               | I don't have any pets. Do I need a special interest
               | group?
        
               | VictorPath wrote:
               | > Luckily this is a self-correcting problem
               | 
               | Being as people have been around for at least 500
               | centuries, and birthrate are leveling off, if this were
               | going to "self-correct", it would have already.
        
               | toomuchtodo wrote:
               | Reproducing for the sake of doing so is clearing becoming
               | passe [1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6]. High level, the world
               | needs less people [7]. Lots of roads to get there, all
               | valid as long as they don't cause harm in the process.
               | Live your best life, and for many, that means being
               | childfree. If you're a decent, responsible parent, more
               | power to you, as long as you're willing to shoulder the
               | costs of your children. Culture and passing of it down is
               | seemingly overrated in the current era (outside of some
               | belief systems), and even the Mongol Empire ran out of
               | steam (despite Genghis Khan's progeny and reproductive
               | efforts). Build strong institutions that will withstand
               | the test of time, versus traditional families, marriages,
               | and progeny. Arguably, this is an indicator of an
               | advanced civilization, versus relying on families and
               | tribalism for strength and culture.
               | 
               | [1] https://ourworldindata.org/fertility-rate
               | 
               | [2] https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-
               | tank/2021/11/19/growing-sha...
               | 
               | [3] https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-
               | releases/2021/childles...
               | 
               | [4] https://ifstudies.org/blog/the-rise-of-childless-
               | america
               | 
               | [5] https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2019/03/29
               | /childf...
               | 
               | [6] https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/05/upshot/americans-
               | are-havi...
               | 
               | [7] https://www.nationalgeographic.org/topics/resource-
               | library-h...
        
               | satellite2 wrote:
               | The Repugnant Conclusion
        
               | toomuchtodo wrote:
               | I had never heard of this, but I have been looking for
               | this sort of explanation of this model, thank you for
               | mentioning it!
               | 
               | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mere_addition_paradox
               | 
               | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reasons_and_Persons
               | 
               | https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/repugnant-conclusion/
        
         | Tade0 wrote:
         | My relatives adopted a child who went through something similar
         | at age 4. She's okay now, but it took years to get to that
         | point.
        
         | bobthechef wrote:
        
         | civilized wrote:
         | Talk about a "no good choices" situation.
        
       | haspoken wrote:
       | https://archive.ph/6heWk
        
       | adauctus wrote:
       | Adoptive parent here.
       | 
       | I read this before I adopted, and it didn't make any sense to me
       | then. Having now adopted, I'm willing to make a value judgement
       | and say this absolutely horrific. It induces horror. I'm my kid's
       | parent.
        
         | warner25 wrote:
         | Horrific, but I'm not surprised this happens. I have four
         | biological kids. I know that parenting is hard. That's actually
         | an understatement. I've often wondered how much harder it is
         | when you don't have the biological connection and evolutionary
         | drive to help slog through the hardest parts. To be very
         | candid, I have moments where I feel like having kids was a bad
         | decision, but I know that I'd still give my life for them. I
         | can only speculate about how adoptive parents might feel at the
         | hardest times.
         | 
         | Edited to add: I guess biological parents are the ones putting
         | kids up for adoption in the first place, obviously. So the
         | biological connection and evolutionary drive doesn't do much
         | for some people.
        
           | bigcat123 wrote:
        
       | hn_throwaway_99 wrote:
       | I went and googled the advertising page of the second chance
       | adoption agency discussed in this article, and it's just
       | heartbreaking. On one hand, I really can't imagine what these
       | "parents" were thinking adopting these children in the first
       | place - the reasons for rehoming go from "major lifelong medical
       | care required" to "child doesn't get along with his siblings" -
       | but, in any case, doesn't seem like many of the issues would have
       | been unknown or that unexpected at the time of the first
       | adoption. I also have the distinct feeling that few of these
       | parents would give these kids up at the ages of 8-10 if they were
       | their own biological children.
       | 
       | Of course, on the other hand, I can't help but think that these
       | kids should be removed ASAP from a home where a parent would
       | consider giving them up after caring for them for 8-9 years.
       | 
       | Just really sad all around, my heart goes out to these kids.
        
         | pvaldes wrote:
         | > Doesn't seem like many of the issues would have been unknown
         | 
         | You would be surprised of how dishonest, abusive and
         | manipulative can be the adopting programs.
         | 
         | I know the case of a Spanish couple without children that
         | adopted a Chinese girl baby. Some time later they discovered in
         | a routinely health check (in Spain) that the girl has Down's
         | syndrome, a fact that was know obviously but carefully hidden
         | by the Chinese authorities.
        
         | in_cahoots wrote:
         | Looking at the children up for adoption today, a large portion
         | seem to come from families with many other siblings. Who would
         | have thought that children with special needs require dedicated
         | attention?!
         | 
         | The other thing I was surprised to see is how many of these
         | kids 'love Jesus' and want to go to a traditional (i.e.
         | straight Christian) family. I would think that any loving
         | family is better than being unwanted, regardless of their
         | religion and genders.
        
       | ftyers wrote:
       | I really didn't get this part:
       | 
       | > But according to the information provided by her parents, "This
       | family has drastically changed their lifestyle and have left
       | their faith and extended family for a quiet, secluded life." It
       | is their hope that "a different family will step forward who can
       | provide her with the socialization and continued relationship
       | with God that she desires."
       | 
       | So they're saying that they are getting rid of her because she is
       | too religious at the age of 10 to fit into their lives?
       | 
       | I kind of feel like something is missing there.
        
         | ratww wrote:
         | There is a link on the article that provides a few more
         | details.
         | 
         | https://wiaa.org/child/reese-placed/
         | 
         |  _> This is a child with no special needs but wants to be in a
         | family who goes to church. She loves to sing praise songs and
         | read her Bible. She and her parents want her to be in a family
         | that does this. She gets along with everyone and has no major
         | behavioral problems. Her parents want her to be in a family
         | that is involved in church, and church related activities._
        
           | gambiting wrote:
           | That's still crazy. A 10 year old's opinion on this should be
           | humoured, but not to the extent where they put her up for
           | adoption.
        
             | [deleted]
        
           | [deleted]
        
         | xwdv wrote:
         | A child starts getting very expensive after age 10. Most
         | likely, this child had served its purpose in their lives and
         | the parents are done with their parenthood phase. It is time
         | for someone else to take over while they travel the world and
         | enjoy the finer things in life child free. It is possible they
         | were just pressured into being parents by their extended
         | family, but they didn't really want to be.
        
           | magneticnorth wrote:
           | It's even more heart-breaking than that - this girl is the
           | youngest of 4 daughters. Her 3 older sisters are biological
           | children and presumably are being kept by the parents.
        
         | dahdum wrote:
         | It sounds a bit like the family might have been ostracized from
         | their church, friends, and extended family after leaving their
         | faith. Those relationships may have been critical to the
         | child's wellbeing, covering up poor parent/sibling relations.
         | Or losing them caused behavioral issues all around.
         | 
         | Just speculation of course. My gut says if we knew all the
         | details we'd have a harder time passing judgement on the
         | parents.
        
           | ftyers wrote:
           | According to the article:
           | 
           | > In other posts with more pictures, the reader learns that
           | Reese is the youngest of four daughters; the other three are
           | the biological children of her parents. She gets straight
           | A's. She loves her parents and her sisters.
           | 
           | But I agree, I wasn't passing judgement, I just thought that
           | the motivation was a bit specious, and to specifically call
           | out personal religious preference when talking about a 10
           | year old is super weird.
        
         | tragomaskhalos wrote:
         | Baffling indeed, but I doubt further context would alter my
         | conclusion that these parents are heartless scumbags.
        
         | oneoff786 wrote:
         | The bigger red flag there is leaving their extended family for
         | a secluded life imo. This has a wide range of possible
         | interpretations.
        
           | song wrote:
           | This kind of sounds like the parents joined a cult... The
           | secluded life, leaving extended family...
           | 
           | Of course, pure speculation, but this way of writing reminds
           | me of what I've heard in the past from people in cults.
        
             | addaon wrote:
             | Or left a cult...
        
               | Ekaros wrote:
               | I wonder if the girl would also need some de-
               | programming... Might be situation where parents want to
               | get away, but girl is still into it.
        
               | axiomsEnd wrote:
               | It sounds a bit like being shunned from some controlling
               | church.
        
         | axiolite wrote:
         | > "This family has drastically changed their lifestyle and have
         | left their faith and extended family for a quiet, secluded
         | life."
         | 
         | > So they're saying that they are getting rid of her because
         | she is too religious at the age of 10 to fit into their lives?
         | 
         | Actually, it sounded to me as if the family went full-on Ruby
         | Ridge, moving into an off-grid cabin in the woods, preparing
         | for the rapture.
        
       | Scubabear68 wrote:
       | We adopted two older kids (age 3 and 7) when we were in our
       | 40s/30s.
       | 
       | It was very difficult and life changing in many ways. We
       | sacrificed a lot to bring them into our lives.
       | 
       | But - we knew that going into it. It has caused stress and strain
       | and high blood pressure. But I also got to carry my son off the
       | field on my shoulders when he ran in the the finally touch down
       | to cap off an undefeated season. To hear my daughter sing like
       | Beyonce.
       | 
       | We knew going into this it was going to be difficult. But we did
       | it intentionally to save two lives from what was a life of
       | poverty, instability, and abuse. We purposefully adopted through
       | the State because we knew those were the kids in dire straights.
       | 
       | I want to say I can't believe people would "return" adopted kids,
       | but we saw a lot during adoption training. Parents in it for the
       | money (you get a monthly payment if your kids are classified
       | special needs). Parents asking questions about restraining and
       | hitting kids. Foster homes filled to the brim with kids because
       | there is a constant shortage of homes.
       | 
       | I hope most parents are improving the lives of those they adopt.
       | But that 5% number is just devastating to see, but reflects the
       | reality of who we are as a culture and a race.
        
       | tpmx wrote:
       | I just can't get over the fact that it's somehow legal in the US
       | to advertise young children for adoption on the (public) web,
       | complete with portrait photos and descriptions of their
       | personalities and backgrounds.
        
         | ars wrote:
         | This is not unique to the US. For example
         | https://www.rainbowkids.com/international-adoption/eastern-e...
         | 
         | Just search for photolisting you'll find it all over the place.
        
           | brabel wrote:
           | Russia and Ukraine have a terrible problem with orphans.
           | 
           | Here's an example from Ukraine:
           | https://deti.zp.ua/eng/list.php?keyword=sirot_net (if you
           | find the US sites shocking, pls don't visit this).
        
         | gene91 wrote:
         | What's the alternative? I assume that you're not suggesting
         | that one signs up for adoption and gets assigned a random
         | child. So the alternative is agents with access to the
         | inventory (children) and clients (potential parents). I don't
         | understand why that's better than letting clients browsing
         | inventory by themselves.
        
           | Ekaros wrote:
           | I have no issue with clients browsing inventory. But for
           | privacy reasons that inventory should be very well
           | controlled. Preferably in person. So no online access.
        
           | dymk wrote:
           | Referring to children as "inventory" is implies all sorts of
           | negative things. Adoption isn't the same as a transaction
           | where you peruse the "inventory" for a new hot tub or
           | something.
           | 
           | Those interested in adoption should be _so_ interested, that
           | they're willing to go meet in-person with an agency who can
           | introduce them to the children.
        
             | ipaddr wrote:
             | The biggest problem agencies have is getting parents to
             | come down. By advertising with pictures people will
             | emotionally bond with a specific child which will prompt
             | them to go through the long, expensive agency adoption
             | process.
             | 
             | Charities use images of children to sell the charity.
        
               | dymk wrote:
               | Yeah, that still strikes me as gross and undignified, and
               | I don't buy the premise that you need to show specific
               | images of specific children that are available for
               | adoption _right now_ to increase the rate at which
               | parents come down.
               | 
               | > Charities use images of children to sell the charity.
               | 
               | Note that they're not selling the children.
        
             | brabel wrote:
             | > Those interested in adoption should be _so_ interested
             | 
             | That's what everyone would like... except that even if they
             | are sloppy (not saying that they are) there's still a lot
             | of children that are never going to be adopted. Do you
             | believe that's better? Spoiler: it's not, because you're
             | making sure most children will have a disfunctional adult
             | life (growing up without a family is extremely hard)
             | instead of allowing more children to live a normal life,
             | but with the increased probability of a few living with bad
             | parents (the number of cases where that's worse than no
             | family at all is probably very small).
        
         | ipaddr wrote:
         | Advertising to the biggest audience means the greater the
         | choice between parents for the kid. This isn't a bad strategy.
         | If more people got facebook ads for kids they could adopt there
         | would be more placement.
         | 
         | The privacy question is based on permission from the parent.
         | Many kids model and similiar bios would be available in that
         | setting available publically.
        
           | spaetzleesser wrote:
           | "If more people got facebook ads for kids they could adopt
           | there would be more placement."
           | 
           | I remember talking to a couple who had adopted a child. They
           | told me that there would be more placement if the process
           | wasn't as difficult and insanely expensive as it is now. A
           | lot of people who want to adopt a child are basically forced
           | to go to foreign countries because it's too hard at home in
           | the US. No need for Facebook ads.
        
             | BadCookie wrote:
             | Adopting a healthy infant is difficult and expensive
             | because there is more demand for these babies than supply.
             | We don't need more adoptive families for heathy infants.
             | Adopting an older child is a different situation entirely.
             | It sounds like you are describing a family who was pursuing
             | a healthy infant exclusively.
        
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