[HN Gopher] OpenSearch - open-source search and analytics based ...
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OpenSearch - open-source search and analytics based on Apache 2.0
Elasticsearch
Author : gjvc
Score : 72 points
Date : 2022-03-05 17:17 UTC (5 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (opensearch.org)
(TXT) w3m dump (opensearch.org)
| phpisatrash wrote:
| I want to be clear here. I tried to replace Elastic search with
| OpenSearch. However, besides it's just s fork I couldn't run in.
| OpenSearch requires a lot of configurations that basically are
| automatic on ElasticSearch. I had spent so many time trying to
| fix bugs just to run in on my local machine that made just give
| up and keep with ElasticSearch.
| pojzon wrote:
| Opensearch is Elasticsearch with OpenDistro..
|
| Its not "more" or "less" configuration.
|
| If you mean "paid elasticsearch cloud" is easier to use - I
| would agree because its well.. a paid service.
|
| After maintaining 27 OSS ES clusters that had to be migrated to
| OS because OSS ES does not exist anymore, you pretty much have
| no other option than to use OS, even for security patches
| only..
| andyfleming wrote:
| Only semi-related, but I've recently started using
| https://www.meilisearch.com/. It's relatively limited, but works
| great for small use cases. It's also pretty easy to operate. I'm
| hoping as it continues to grow it will support more features and
| use cases. I don't think the creators intend to address the same
| depth of complex features in ElasticSearch (and the like), but
| that's a desirable attribute in my opinion.
| [deleted]
| cmckn wrote:
| Honestly elasticsearch is kind of a mess these days, I'm pretty
| excited to see where Amazon takes it. Hopefully we all have a
| better, truly open-source search engine to use in the future.
| k__ wrote:
| They should throw it away and build something new.
| dhd415 wrote:
| I am no fan of a lot of the design choices or the effort
| required to operate large ES clusters, but there are easily
| several hundred man-years of development effort behind ES. It
| would be a really long time before a team starting from
| scratch could produce something better.
| philosopher1234 wrote:
| How is it a mess?
| cmckn wrote:
| Feature bloat, bad documentation, API models that are nearly
| inscrutable. Backwards-incompatible changes are constant,
| requiring reindexing.
|
| I'd like to see the architecture re-thought to include an
| indexer, like Apache Druid. I'd like to see a proper command
| line tool ('searchctl'?), and API clients a-la gRPC (to be
| less Java-centric). I'd generally like the project to go back
| to basics and design for 2022 applications.
| unfocussed_mike wrote:
| Notably, Magento 2.4.4 (due for release in a few days) adds
| OpenSearch support.
|
| The ElasticSearch dependency has always frustrated me, not least
| because it broke in annoying ways. OpenSearch could be good news.
| Kwpolska wrote:
| Note that OpenSearch is a fork of Elasticsearch, so many
| (most?) things you might have disliked about ES are likely
| still there.
| unfocussed_mike wrote:
| Oh, of course. But an open source implementation of
| ElasticSearch is (based on my experience of open source
| generally) likely to end up in core distributions again, and
| have longer support lifetimes/more backports. Plus it makes
| it easier for SaaS platforms in a lot of ways.
| simonw wrote:
| This is Amazon's fork of Elasticsearch, to avoid the licensing
| restrictions introduced when they switched from Apache 2 license
| to "Elastic License and Server Side Public License" -
| https://www.elastic.co/pricing/faq/licensing
| deknos wrote:
| and tbh it's enough for most of the people. and opensearch
| supports also OpenID/Oauth.
| stingraycharles wrote:
| I wonder how much money AWS is making off Elasticsearch? The
| efforts they're going through seem to be substantial, which
| makes me wonder just how much it must be.
|
| Alternatively, it must be a strategic play of some kind with
| the technology behind it, but that seems very unlikely to me.
| markhahn wrote:
| Amazon's thing is the network effect, not margins on a
| particular feature.
| ghusto wrote:
| And my bet is it's the one most are going to be using from now
| on. I used to think this was a fairly black and white issue,
| but now two things have coloured it for me.
|
| Firstly, dick moves like this:
| https://github.com/elastic/elasticsearch-py/pull/1623
|
| Secondly, I don't buy the argument from Elastic any more. Yes,
| the ethical thing to do when you're making money from someone's
| work is at least contribute back. At the same time though,
| they're making money from packaging it up and selling it _as a
| service_. That "as a service" part is where they're making the
| bucks.
|
| A bonus thirdly; OpenSearch really is Open Source, and
| ElasticSearch no longer is.
| jamesblonde wrote:
| We switched to OpenSearch from Elastic, as we have an open
| source platform. It's actually better than open source
| elastic - with the security plugin and k-nn plugin (an
| embedding store):
|
| https://www.hopsworks.ai/post/open-distro-for-
| elasticsearch-...
| tuwtuwtuwtuw wrote:
| I doubt it. Their forum seems pretty dead, Elasticsearch has
| the known name, etc etc. Seems a bit like MariaDb/Mysql where
| Mysql are still the default choice for most companies (over
| MariaDb).
|
| I know some people on hackernews etc are upset with the
| decisions of Elastic. Suspect most people couldn't care less,
| even if they are even aware.
| Kwpolska wrote:
| > Seems a bit like MariaDb/Mysql where Mysql are still the
| default choice for most companies (over MariaDb).
|
| [citation needed]. Some Linux distros (notably Debian,
| Fedora, Arch) only have MariaDB in their repos and will
| push you towards it, even if you try to ask for MySQL.
| freethejazz wrote:
| https://mariadb.com/kb/en/distributions-which-include-
| mariad... and look for "replaces" or "defaulted to".
|
| CentOS even just installs MariaDB when you `yum install
| MySQL`
| zthrowaway wrote:
| We're looking to migrate from Elastic to OpenSearch for these
| reasons. We're a really huge elastic user.
|
| Also the EOL support on elastic versions are pretty
| aggressive now. It's been a challenge for us to keep up with
| it.
| dijit wrote:
| FD: I have a friend who works at Elastic, though he doesn't
| really colour my opinions of things.
|
| > Firstly, dick moves like this:
| https://github.com/elastic/elasticsearch-py/pull/1623
|
| I understand that this is unpopular, but you can make a very
| strong argument that it's to prevent weird errors in the
| future. I'm also guilty of littering my code with Asserts to
| ensure the universe is working fine.
|
| The alternative is to allow it to work and then you end up
| with weird issues like when you connect mysql client to
| mariadb server (and vice-versa): https://stackoverflow.com/qu
| estions/50169576/mysql-8-0-11-er...
|
| > Secondly, I don't buy the argument from Elastic any more.
| Yes, the ethical thing to do when you're making money from
| someone's work is at least contribute back. At the same time
| though, they're making money from packaging it up and selling
| it _as a service_. That "as a service" part is where they're
| making the bucks.
|
| That's just an opinion, yes they have a service, and yes it
| competes with Amazon. Is it cool for Amazon to take a body of
| work and sell it without supporting it? Are amazon actually
| supporting it? Is it the same as Elastic using Lucene? (not
| really because Elastic submits a the majority of fixes to
| Lucene, but, you get it).
|
| it's kinda gray, I'm sure Amazon thinks they're the good guy,
| but it's hard for me to look at Elastic as the bad guy in all
| this.
| thayne wrote:
| Amazon did contribute patches back to elasticsearch. Just
| not as much as Elastic wanted I guess? On the other hand I
| do think Amazon was probably in the wrong to call their
| hosted service Elasticsearch.
| dhd415 wrote:
| It seems especially egregious that AWS claimed their
| hosted offering was a partnership with Elastic when they
| launched it:
| https://twitter.com/kimchy/status/1351534454154543106
| jamesblonde wrote:
| Breaking backwards compatability for clients would normally
| be a massive risk, but Elastic took the risk. It severs the
| link to OpenSearch, totally. We have 2 ecosystems, now.
| [deleted]
| sdesol wrote:
| Based on my latest analysis, OpenSearch is very active as the
| following shows:
|
| https://oss.gitsense.com/insights/github?q=pull-age%3A%3C%3D...
|
| but it is still not as active as Elasticsearch, which is to be
| expected given how long it has been around as the following
| shows:
|
| https://oss.gitsense.com/insights/github?q=pull-age%3A%3C%3D...
|
| Full disclosure: The above insights are from my tool
| gjvc wrote:
| activity _alone_ is not a reliable proxy for quality
| sdesol wrote:
| This is true, but it is a huge proxy for investment and
| survivability. In the beginning, it was hard to tell how much
| Amazon would invest in OpenSearch, but it appears now (based
| on activity) that Amazon is committed to OpenSearch.
| jamesblonde wrote:
| Based on my experience, I can see it. I had the OpenSearch
| PM reach out to us because of our work with OpenSearch. AWS
| are investing for the long haul, here.
| sdesol wrote:
| Yeah if you look at only changes to Java files in
| OpenSearch (OpenSearch + Security) and Elasticsearch, the
| number of contributors is growing at a steady pace and
| who knows, it may well surpass Elasticsearch in a year or
| two. month | project | authors
| | commits | files | churn ---------+-----------
| ----+---------+---------+-------+---------
| 2022-03 | elasticsearch | 61 | 529 | 948 |
| 39307 2022-03 | opensearch | 20 | 138
| | 603 | 26042 2022-02 | elasticsearch |
| 110 | 2783 | 3546 | 287818 2022-02 |
| opensearch | 45 | 582 | 1441 | 126678
| 2022-01 | elasticsearch | 126 | 2431 | 3609 |
| 360828 2022-01 | opensearch | 40 |
| 175 | 640 | 26902 2021-12 | elasticsearch |
| 103 | 1803 | 4050 | 301715 2021-12 |
| opensearch | 33 | 166 | 703 | 30182
| 2021-11 | elasticsearch | 94 | 1430 | 2309 |
| 141589 2021-11 | opensearch | 31 |
| 119 | 932 | 44234 2021-10 | elasticsearch |
| 102 | 1013 | 12589 | 1217275 2021-10 |
| opensearch | 28 | 142 | 5776 | 1256157
| 2021-09 | elasticsearch | 83 | 729 | 2269 |
| 119506 2021-09 | opensearch | 17 |
| 53 | 126 | 8336 2021-08 | elasticsearch |
| 87 | 654 | 2479 | 180385 2021-08 |
| opensearch | 23 | 42 | 128 | 3610
| gjvc wrote:
| Agree it is a proxy for (community support) + investment
| and survivability
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